EPISODE 114: Can We Come Back From This? Part 2: Even More Relationship Make Or Break Moments

Hello and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Zander Marin. I'm a sex Therapist with over 20.

Years of experience, and I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.

Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationships advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. We're coming at you today with a brand new setup.

We are, but you might not be able to tell.

I mean, you can't tell if you're listening.

You can't.

We are in some very comfortable chairs right now.

We are not at a desk. Same room. Our desk that we usually record from is right over here. It's not looking nearly as comfortable.

No, our chairs were, like, pretty uncomfortable. Honestly.

Speak for yourself. I have a nice.

You have a nice one.

I have a nice Herman Miller kneeling.

One that I don't really need anymore. But yeah, now we are in, like, nice, cushy chairs that took us about a year to order and have arrived.

They did. They're here.

We've got a new little mic set up. So, you know, this might just be a whole new vibe. I'm feeling a different vibe. Like I'm vibing over here in my cushy chair. My feet don't touch the ground. That's okay. I've got my Maggie dog right next to me.

And if you're wondering, when she says her feet doesn't touch the ground, it's not like, close.

Oh, no, it's about eight inches.

Eight inches away from touching the ground.

These are deep chairs, to be fair. Like, your feet are barely touching the ground.

Yeah, you're all the way in the back. If you scooted forward, you might have a chance. But also, who knows, you might never see it. But we're also recording some video as well. Maybe, you know, we'll have a little snippet of the podcast on Instagram, on YouTube, who knows? Definitely not this entire podcast will be released in video, but we might even have some fun little snippets for you.

So we're excited about our new setup, but in this episode, we are actually taking you back to an old setup. You like that?

Wow, that's good.

So back in episode 36, we did a whole episode around the question, can we come back from this? We asked our Instagram audience, has your partner ever said or Done something hurtful that made you feel unsure you'd ever be able to recover. And at the time, 60% of people said yes, 60%, that's wild. Were worried that they wouldn't be able to come back from something. So way back in episode 36, we knew we have to do a part two to this. It took us a while to get back there, but we're doing it. So once again, we put a call out on Instagram. We said, tell us some situation that you're in that you're worrying, can we come back from this? And we are going to give you our best advice. So we have picked some doozies.

We have.

There were some really, really interesting answers that came through. So here's what we did. We decided together which ones we were going to talk about in this episode, but we did not talk about our response responses.

We didn't.

So you're gonna hear us kind of live respond.

Yeah, we'll see if we agree.

Maybe we won't.

We might disagree.

I mean, we might not be able to come back from.

I know. It might turn into a. Can we come back from disagreeing about one random person's issue on our podcast?

Hopefully high stakes episode.

Hopefully we can. It would have to be a real big. A real big disagreement, I think. But before we come back from anything, we are going to come back to the thing that we do every single episode, which is review of the week. Thank you for making things normal. Hi. I've been wanting to leave a review and let you know that you've helped my relationship. A while ago, my husband came to me saying he had been interested in exploring more anal or prostate play. I grew up with 80s Rom coms and at no point was there mention of any of this in Pretty in Pink. After getting your guides, listening to your podcast, and reading sex talks, I felt ready to talk about what I would and wouldn't like to do. And then I did a thing. Rented a hotel room for us to have a date night. Oh, side note, why are there not hotel rooms you can rent by the hour for married couples wanting to get away from their kids for an evening? Sorry, this is. This is Xander interjecting here. There are. In Japan, this is like a big thing. Love hotels.

Yes.

This is not a thing.

Got to bring it to the US.

Not a thing in this country. I don't know if really love hotels exist anywhere other than Japan. I've never heard of that being a thing in other countries. But this is like a very, like, kind of notorious thing. In Japan. Anywho, I felt ready and honestly, pretty powerful. All of this is thanks to you normalizing exploration and finding things that bring us pleasure. Keep fighting the good fight and helping all of us be a little more ourselves.

Thank you so much for this review. It's a delightful review. Love the the hotel adventure that you two had. And reviews really do go such a long way in helping the podcast grow. The more reviews we have, the more likely new people are to be so served our podcast. Like, when they're looking for podcasts, the more likely they are to listen. Like, it really is a big deal. So we do this giveaway every week as our way of saying thank you. If you hear your review read, you can email us@infomtherapy.com and you will get to choose from a series of our masterclasses. You'll get to pick one absolutely for free. It's just our way of saying thank you for taking the time to leave a review.

You can also subscribe or follow. It depends which provider you're using. They call it different things. But follow, subscribe to the podcast. That helps us so much as well. And the benefit to that is that whenever we release a new episode, it's ready for you to listen to. It gives you just a little notification reminder. Hey, Vanessa and Sandra, I have a new podcast for you.

Never miss a new episode. Thanks.

It makes that noise too. No, it doesn't. Really.

All right, let's get into our scenarios. Can these couples come back from this? I will read the first one. Husband told me he misses his ex and former life. He can't move past it. It comes up a lot. All right, Xander, what's your hot take?

Oh, boy. My hot. I mean, this is. Ty. I have. I have an argument for both sides, but you do. I mean, so look, the way that it's written, it feels pretty much like you're not really gonna come back from this. This guy clearly believes this. He says it. He says it multiple times. It. You know, it's not even like, oh, I just miss my ex. It's like, I miss my ex. I miss my old life. Like, I want to go back.

And.

And it's not like an isolated incident like, oh, I said this one stupid thing one time. And upon reflection, you know, I don't really. I don't really, like, believe it anymore, or I didn't really mean it or whatever. That's not what I'm reading in here. So, you know, if. If it's genuinely like this is really how he feels. And he's kind of unapol. He's not kind of. He is unapologetic about it. Like, yeah, I'd say that that's. That's a huge red flag. The only thing that I want to say is, like, I'm curious if the person who sent this in, have they shared with their partner what it feels like for them to hear that? Like, the only thing I can think of is that if this is just, like, I don't know, like, some really emotionally unaware dude, he's like, oh, I, like, didn't realize that was hurtful. Like, I thought I was just being.

Honest, but, like, no, no, you're. You're really giving.

I'm really trying to throw this guy a bone.

No, to me, this is a deal breaker because of the repetition of it. If it was, like, one time they were having a fight or he got drunk or, like, something made him, like, really nostalgic, and he just, like, blurted out something like, oh, I miss my ex, or, you know, oh, my life needs to be so different, like, one time.

Or, like, I miss certain things about my old life. Like, I think that's different.

Well, if it was one time, and if he had a really great, like, explanation for it, an apology for it, like, maybe I could see getting past it. But this is multiple times, and the person is literally writing. Like, he can't move past it, and it comes up a lot, so it's like, it's happening multiple times. I don't know if he's directly saying he can't move past it. Like, to me, the answer's right there. No, you can't move past this.

I just really want to know what he's thinking. I just want to. To know, like, dude, like, why. Why are you saying this? All you're doing is hurting your partner. If this is really how you feel, like, break up, leave. Like, yeah, go, like, do. Go back. Yeah. What do you want to do? Yeah. Yeah. What is it that you're trying to achieve other than cruelty?

And you know what? That was a good reminder to me that we forgot to give a little disclaimer at the beginning.

Oh, yeah.

Like, obviously, we are given our hot takes on, like, three sentences that we're getting off of Instagram.

We're literally armchair experts right here in our little armchairs.

Of course, we do not know the whole story. We don't know the other person's side of the story. We don't know these people. Like, these are just hot takes. Human beings are way more complex than hot takes. But that's just what this episode is, a hot take.

All right, well, next up, another hot take. My husband told me that having kids ruined my vagina. Blamed it on me not having a C section. All right, go off, Vanessa.

This one. When I saw it, I died. I cannot fathom telling your partner, who spent months giving up her body to bear your child, a joint decision that you guys, you know, made together.

Like, oh, children. It's plural here. Oh, children.

She did it multiple times.

Not just once.

I cannot fathom feeling anything towards her other than extreme gratitude, like, the gall and the cruelty that it takes to tell your. Okay. There's so many parts of it. To tell your partner their vagina is bad. Like, that's unbelievably cruel. Not something that I would ever come back from. Like, it's me.

How would you like it if she's like, your penis is terrible. Yeah, your penis. You know what? I just. I woke up this morning, and actually, I hate your penis.

Yeah. Like, if. If you ever told me anything about, like, that my vagina was bad, I'd be like, then you don't get to play with it ever again. Sorry. Goodbye. So that's bad in and of itself. Then he adds a layer of bad by saying, like, the kids ruined your vagina. Which, again, like, she was the only one who could carry their children for them. She did him a huge solid doing that. And then three, like, you should have had a C section. A major surgery that. It sounds like if she had vaginal birth, she didn't need to have a C section. So, like, why would she put herself through an incredible surgery just to keep her vagina good for him? I'm dead.

Yeah.

This is a hard. No, It's. I don't think you can come back from something like that. And it's not just, like, the act of saying it. It's like the. The cruelty, the lack of care, the disrespect. The attitude behind this, that I'm like, why do you want to have a partner who thinks of you in that way, who treats you that way? Like, that's awful.

Yeah, absolutely. I agree 100%.

Xander's, like, acting like you're nervous.

I mean, I just. I hurt as a man. Just seeing other men behave like this, it's really bad. It's really disheartening.

I mean, you were trying to throw the original husband a bone. There are no bones to throw to this man. Like, there is nothing. You know, we are all about, like, hey, communication is hard, and sometimes we Screw up and we say things that we like, they just come out in so the wrong way. And we have both been guilty of like, saying things that just came out really the wrong way. But like, I can't think of any sort of good intent behind this that it was like, oh God, I just really messed up the communication there. Like, no, you're just a cruel, cruel person.

Sorry. Yeah, I mean, I guess, like with this one, like, what if. What if it was like, Alexander's tryin. What if it was like, like, like a drunken comment that he made. He made it one time. And what we're not seeing here is that like, let's say he wakes up the next morning and he's like, oh, shit. Is there a way back from that?

I mean, look, so this is where it gets complicated. Obviously. It's like, they're married, they have kids. The idea of ending a relationship over one comment, like, I get it, that's really freaking hard. But again, for me, it's just like, it's the level of disrespect and cruelty behind this. Like, if we're really stretching ourselves, maybe if he was like super drunk and he thought he was like. And not that being drunk excuses you from being an asshole, but like, maybe if he like thought that he was being jokey and like, you know, I don't know. That's stretching it too far from me. Yeah, I don't think I can get there.

I, I think that it would have to be like. It would have to be like, if it was really, truly some kind of mistake that you would have to show with possibly years of, of effort and like, just showing by example that like, you, you do love her vagina and you worship it and whatever. Like. But what I'm guessing the way that this is worded, I would get venture a guess that this couple is not having a lot of sex and this guy is probably not very into her vagina. And it just comes back to it, like, yeah, why, why are you like, yeah, why are you in this situation? What is the point? What did you hope to achieve by saying this? Why, like, why would you want to say this and then like, be in a relationship with someone where you've like, ruined your sexual energy probably forever? Like, what, what do you get out of it? Unless, like, he just doesn't want to be the one to break up and he wants her to do it.

Yeah, this one's bad. It's real bad. Let's move on to the next one. My husband didn't want me to Go to a concert because of COVID I told him that I would put the tickets up for sale, and if no one bought them, I was going to go. He made a fake account and bought the tickets. I found out right before the concert, made him transfer me the tickets and went, xander, can they come back from this Covid concert?

Before I get into it, I gotta say, like, props to the. Props to the husband for the ingenuity and the gall behind this one. Like. Like, hey, that's. This reminds me of absolute. One of the more horrible things that half of my friend group did to me and my roommate in college sophomore year. Like, so we went to college somewhere where it was really obscenely hot for, like, the first month or two when. When the semester started back up, and then it got back to, like, a normal temperature, and my roommate and I decided to buy, like, kind of like a portable AC unit. And we were bidding on one on ebay, and we, like, had it. No one else was bidding. Like, we bas. Basically had it locked up at, like, a reasonable price. And then two seconds before the auction closed, someone jumped in and bought it for, like, $20 extra, you know, with, like, two seconds left. So we had, like, no chance to counter. And it turned out it was the rest of our friends in the next dorm room over that put the bid in. And, I mean, they bought it and they. They used it themselves. We ended up buying another one that just. Just didn't work. And it was a piece of. And, yeah, that was super, super mean. So kind of like that. Anyways, looping back to this one, I kind of, like. I kind of call foul on both of them. This is an interesting situation because it's. It's, you know, bringing us back to the pandemic era where different people had different ideas of what was safe, what was okay, what type of risk was okay to put other people at and whatnot. And also, you know, obviously, I'm acknowledging this is, like, a hindsight 2020 situation where, like, you know, looking back at the pandemic, we may have different views of, like, how we would have acted had we known what we know now or whatever. But it sounds like what I read in this one is, like, one member of the couple, like, was more hesitant about being comfortable with COVID experience.

Yeah, he didn't want her to go.

He didn't want her to go, per. I'm assuming because it's a safety issue, like, not wanting. Not wanting to be exposed, you know, being scared of the. Of the virus or whatever. And then the Other partner, it, you know, is more comfortable with going out and doing things or doesn't care or whatever. And, you know, I can imagine that was. That was challenging. I know in our relationship, we were kind of in general agreement about, like, what we were both comfortable with, and we talked, we talked extensively about, you know, what we would be comfortable with, so that, you know, if situations like this came up, we kind of had a game plan. So it sounds like, you know, I kind of put a flag on both of them. You know, it sounds like they clearly had not had those type of discussions or had kind of ground rules or, like, respect for each other in terms of honoring the other's desires for safety.

I don't know.

I.

So I think that this is something that you can come back from. I think it's, you know, yeah, of course, we don't want to be, you know, deceitful and, like, the whole fake account thing. But my, you know, I agree with you that, like, yeah, this is bringing us back to a time when we had very. People had very different perspectives about safety. And I wonder what the conversation was between the two of them. Like, was. I don't know the gender of the person who sent in this question, but, like, was the original sender, like, were they willing to listen to their husband? Like, if the husband was saying, like, please, like, I'm really uncomfortable with this, or, like, I'm worried for my own safety, you know? And then this person was like, well, I mean, I'm just gonna. If nobody buys them, I'm gonna go anyways. Like, it. Were they considering their husband's perspective at all? And if, if they weren't, like, then you're kind of in the wrong here too. It's not just the husband who's being naughty here.

Oh, yeah, no, I, I, I agree with you 100%. I mean, it's kind of if, if safety is the goal and you're, like, willing to honor your partner, it's. It's weird. It's like they're willing to honor their partner safety a little. Like, okay, fine, I'll put them up. I'll put them up, but I will only honor your safety if someone buys them. So what you're saying is, like, the cost of those tickets is more important or, like, you know, the money that you spend is more important than your partner's safety or health? So, yeah, I mean, the going behind their back to buy the tickets is all. I mean, that's problematic as well, but.

It'S like, it is problematic.

I feel like Both of these people just really acted out against each other, and they kind of both need to take responsibility for their parts and. And move on. They can totally move on together.

I think you just say, look, it was a crazy time. We all did crazy things. Like, we were both a little bit in the wrong here. Let's just let this one go and, you know, promise to be more truthful with each other going forward and promise to, like, be more of a team going forward too, and, like, really considering each other's needs and desires.

Yeah, I mean, I think the takeaway from this, the way that you move forward, is you guys both need to come to an understanding of, like, okay, should we get into a situation like this again? Like, how do we value each other's safety or each other's health or whatever? And, you know, coming to an agreement of, okay, like, yes, okay, your health is more important to me than a $100 concert ticket or whatever the cost of the ticket is. I kind of want to know how much those tickets cost. Now. Are we talking like a. Like a $800 Taylor Swift ticket or.

It'S like a $25 community concert?

Yeah, like $20 cover. I just, like, bought it in advance. Next up. Oh, God, another one. I'm still, like, cringing as a man said he wouldn't want to be with me if I became overweight.

This one is another bad one. Okay, So I think 100%, without a doubt, like, this is just a cruel comment to make. It's fat shaming. It's mean spirited. It's not in alignment with this, like, you know, idea of loving our partner for, like, the spirit and the soul that they are, regardless of how the meat sack that we are all encased in changes over the course of time. So I think this is crappy. I think that this man has really internalized all the bullshit that we get taught, especially, I don't know, again, the gender here of this person. I'm gonna assume probably that it was a woman because weight issues just come up so much more with women than they do with men. But to be fair, they come up with people of all genders. But I think that, you know, this husband or boyfriend or whatever he is, like, has internalized some of that bullshit about, like, you know, we're supposed to be thin, and that's the most desirable type of thing. I will say. I'm going to put on my. Throwing someone a bone hat over here. I don't know what that hat looks like.

All right. Yeah. What's your bone Hat girl.

You know what this made me think of? It made me think of, like, this is a very woman. Stereotypical woman thing to do of like, kind of testing our partner, like, well, would you still love me if. If I was a worm?

Yeah. How did this come up? We need to know how this came up, because this reeks of it being a leading question.

Yes, it. So would, you know, would it be something like, oh, if I woke up tomorrow and I was 400 pounds heavier, would you still love me? Like, it feels like maybe there could. There's a possibility that there was, like, a little bit of a trap here and the guy kind of fell into it, and then the partner got all upset and the guy was like, wait, no, I didn't. I didn't mean it. You know, I thought we were just, like, playing this game kind of thing. So if it's in that kind of context, then I think that you could come back from this. I don't think, like, either way, I don't. The how this was said. It really does come down to, like, how this was said or how it.

Was asked and then answered.

Yeah. Like, what was the tone behind it?

Because you come right out and say it, like, unprovoked. Like, it's like, oh, by the way, if you. If you gain X number of pounds, I'm out.

Yeah. If it was presented in, like, a manipulative way of, like, these are the conditions for me being with you. If it's accompanied by any sort of, like, shaming of like, you need to eat less or you need to exercise more, that kind of thing, like, that's a hard. No red flag. Get out of there. But if it was done more in a circumstance of, like, it being a little bit of a test, and if it was done in a circumstance. So if it was more in, like, the test thing, I think that this is something they could work through. Some couples therapy could really help. I also think, like, there is the people have the tendency to equate being overweight with being unhealthy. And I want to be super clear in saying, like, that is not a correct correlation. Like, we both believe in health at any size. We do not believe that skinnier is healthier and heavier is, you know, less healthy. Not at all. But I think a lot of people do think that way. And we've been brainwashed by our diet culture society to believe that way. And so I think a lot of times people hear like, oh, if I became overweight. And what they think of in their heads is, oh, that means my partner would, like, maybe get depressed and they would stop taking care of themselves and they would never, like, move their bodies. They'd just lie on the couch all day and, like, eat things that are bad for them and, like, feel really bad about themselves. So if the partner. If this guy was thinking of it in that context of, like, you got depressed and, like, weren't taking care of yourself, then, then I would put that more in the category of, like, you can move on from it. Let's get some therapy and unpack your diet culture bs. Because again, I just want to be, like, super clear. Like, I'm not saying that's the only reason people gain weight or that people who are in larger bodies don't take care of themselves or are depressed, like, not making that connection at all. But if this man was making that connection, that's my throwing him a bone thing here.

It's like, outside of the situation where it was a leading question that she kind of set him up for, I guess, regardless, in any situation, I feel like it's not particularly useful to. To. To make definitive statements like that in advance of something actually happening. Like, if you do this, I will 100% leave. Because it's like, yeah, right now you might think that, but you haven't lived that situation yet. And I think that, yeah, there. I feel like that we have a lot of things that we think are deal breakers and, And. And hell, they probably are most of the time. But if, you know, if you make definitive statements like that, you can also kind of end up, like, feeling like you're locking yourself into making certain decisions or behaving in a certain way, or you. Or it ends up kind of being manipulative towards your partner, and they feel like they are not allowed to do a certain thing or whatever, and that causes a lot of. A lot of grief. And I think the reality is that it's like, okay, yeah, even if in his mind he's, you know, just thinking like, oh, God, I. If my partner gained X number of pounds, I couldn't be with them. It doesn't do him any good to tell his partner that and he gets to make that decision if and when the time comes. It's like, there's no point in saying that in advance or, you know, any. Any type of thing. If this happens five years from now, like, we're done. Who cares? Like, just wait until that thing. If and when that happens, if it doesn't happen, you never need to think about it. You never need to worry about it.

It's just not worthwhile to go down that road. Okay, here's the next one. Xander, can this couple come back from this? My family wasn't able to afford to come to our destination wedding, and now my husband hates them.

Rude.

What's rude?

I mean, well, a number. I mean, it's rude to hate the family because, you know, because they couldn't afford to come. It's rude that maybe you didn't offer to help them financially if clearly you could afford to have a destination wedding, because I know that can be expensive or. I mean, guess maybe sometimes people have destination weddings because they actually don't want. They end up being less expensive or you want fewer people to come, and therefore it ends up being less expensive for you. But I think if you are going to have a wedding, it is important. Or if you are going to have a wedding and if you want all the parents to come, then it is important to plan a wedding that is feasible for everyone to come to without bankrupting them. I mean, about coming back from it. I mean. I mean, I think that they can come back from this if the husband who hates them can decide not to hate them or maybe have some understanding for, oh, okay. I have some responsibility for making a decision that kind of cut them out of being able to come or being able to afford to come. And it's, you know, maybe he makes some apologies if he's, you know, maybe said some things.

Yeah, I mean, I just think that. I mean, look, weddings are tough. I do not, you know, envy being in that situation of, like, really wanting to have a destination wedding and that being your dream. And I'm assuming you really wanted your family to be able to be there as well, and, like, having to decide between, like, do we do the wedding that we always wanted or do we do something that our family can be at? But I do agree with you that, like, at the end of the day, if you wanted your family to be there and you knew they weren't going to be able to afford it, you know, it's not like they were like, oh, we just didn't feel like coming, like, they couldn't afford to go. So I think it. It is partially on you that you made this decision and you didn't offer to help or to, like, get creative and help them, like, fundraise money in some way, you know, so that they could come. Like. So I do think there's some response. There's a good chunk of responsibility on the couple, and that sucks, and it's hard. But I think it's really unreasonable of the husband to just be, like, furious at the family when it sounds like they knew well in advance that, like, the family was not going to be able to come. So I think the husband needs to say, like, look, it was a tough situation. We really had to make a tough decision. But, like, I understand that the reason they didn't come was because of finances. And I take partial responsibility for choosing a wedding that knowing that they weren't going to be able to come to.

Yeah, I mean, the only thing I can think of here is, like, if the husband doesn't agree with their justification for it, like, if it was like, oh, like, you know, you're saying that you can't afford it, but really you just didn't want to come to this location or, you know, I don't know, they had different definitions of affordability or something like that. But honestly, it sounds like the husband, it has some resentment towards this family about something that's probably a bit more than that. And just using the wedding as sort of a catch all for, like, for trying to drive a wedge in there.

And I think as the, as the other spouse, the person who, like, wrote this in, I think you do have a right to tell your partner, like, look, I love you. You're my family. I love my, my family too. They're my family. Like, and I need you guys to at least be civil towards each other. I don't need you to love them to be best friends forever, but, like, I need you to be civil and polite and respectful and be able to, like, share space with them. Especially since this wasn't like, nobody murdered anybody here, you know, So I think you have a right to say that. And if your husband, like, refuses to be involved in your family, then I guess it just depends how close they with your family you are. Like, for some people it might be like, well, it sucks, but, like, I'm gonna just spend time with my family solo. But I mean, like, for me, that would be a deal breaker. If you weren't. If you refuse to have any sort of relationship with my family, I would say, like, I just, I. I don't know, I can't come back from that.

Yeah, I mean, and I think it's, you know, what Vanessa suggested and, you know, having that conversation of like, hey, you know, what happened, happened. But I need, you know, I need you to be on civil terms with them. I think you could pair that with a, you know, like, if, like, if you can't, like, I'm not sure that I Can. I'm not sure I can be in a marriage long term with someone that is incapable of being civil with my parents. I mean, adding that. That extra layer of just being really clear that, like, these are what the stakes are. It's not like, oh, this is my preference. It's like, you know, I can't be in a marriage like this long term. I get that right now you hate them, and I need you to find a way to not hate them. Yeah, basically. All right, our next one. My boyfriend of seven years thinks I'm cheating. I'm 100% not. He questions everything I say and do lately.

Okay, here's what I would do if I was in this situation. I would sit my boyfriend down and I would say, like, I am not cheating. And I want to understand, like, what's coming up for you that's making you feel so afraid of this. And I would really try to approach it with compassion because I think most of us have had the experience of being cheated on, and it is awful, right? And it can lead you to feel paranoid, like, in relationships in the future, you know, because you're so worried about this happening again. So I'm guessing the boyfriend has some sort of backstory around this, something, you know, coming up for him, why he thinks he's. That this is happening. So I think he gets one chance here, one chance to, like, sit down and. And approach him with compassion and say, like, what's going on? I'm curious, like, why is this coming up for you? Why do you think this is happening? If you guys haven't talked about a history of cheating before? Like, has this happened to you in the past? Like, I want to understand, you know, how I can give you that assurance that, like, this is. That's not what's happening right now. If he continues down this line, then I think that gets into, like, can't come back from it territory because it starts to get incredibly manipulative. And it may already be.

And gas.

Too manipulative and too gaslighty to come back from. Like, we don't know, since we don't have the full story. But if he's using it as a way to, like, control you of, like, no, you can't go out to do that. Or, like, let me see your phone right now. Or if he's being, you know, cruel about it in any way, like, calling you any sort of names or making, like, judgments of you or your sexuality or anything like that, like, that's just a hard red flag, like, get out of there. But yeah, if you, if otherwise, like, you know, he's been. It's more like coming from this place of just like fear and anxiety. He gets that one chance to sit down, and if he can't move past it, then I would end the relationship.

Yeah, I agree with everything you said. I would look at it like this, like sort of this two pronged thing. The first one, the first test is can he acknowledge or take responsibility for the fact that he is anxious about something or is it just purely like, no, you're like, I'm the victim, you're doing this to me. And if it's that one, if he's unable to take any kind of responsibility for, ooh, I'm feeling really scared. I'm feeling really anxious. I've had something like this happen to me in the past and I'm feeling paranoid. If he can, if he can take responsibility for, for him having a part in this and probably a major part in this, then there's a possibility to come back from it. If he's incapable of that, then done, like, yeah, it's, it's time to go. This is never going to get better. It's only going to get worse. If so, if he can take responsibility for it, then the next question is, okay, can he take responsibility for it? Because, yeah, that's important. But, like, taking responsibility for it isn't going to solve the problem. It's not going to soothe, you know, your anxiety. Is not going to be soothed by saying, oh, yeah, I'm anxious. Is, is he willing to work on it? Is he willing to go to therapy, Individual therapy, not couples therapy? I think a lot of people in this, like, he might be like, okay, yeah, let's go to couples therapy to talk about it. But it's like, no, this is an individual issue that he has. So if he can go to therapy on his own to talk about it, if he can, you know, do take any other action to, you know, reduce some of that anxiety and show that he can increase his trust in you, et cetera. If you were seeing measurable progress, then, yeah, you can come back from it. But I think that, yeah, a lot of people can, you know, yeah, you get to that point where you're like, okay, yeah, yeah, you know, you're right. I am really anxious about it. But then, like, nothing ever changes and you just get stuck in this really crappy dynamic for a long time. So I think that, yeah, the important thing is recognizing he needs to make serious progress. That's the only way that you have a Chance of this actually going away and getting better. Please don't get stuck in something that just goes on for years and years where it's like acknowledging there's a problem and then doing nothing about it.

Yeah. Okay, next one. This is an interesting one. I found intimate pictures of his ex on his phone. He said he forgot they were there and never looks. Can they come back from this, Xander?

Oh, man, this is. This is so tough. I mean, all right, how about. I'll make this really simple. Like, I think that, yes, they can come back from this if it's just a simple matter of him going, yep, I totally forgot they're there. Look, here we go. Boom, boom, boom. Delete, delete, delete. Like, here they are. Here, here's my phone. You're welcome. You're welcome to look through. You're welcome, you know, okay, for the next day, for the next week, like, you're welcome to ask me any question you want about this, or you're welcome to look through my phone or whatever is going to satisfy you. And then. And then we're done. Then we're done with this. We're moving on then, like, yeah, I think so. But if there's, like, squirreliness around that of, like, oh, no, like, well, like, it's my phone, like, I don't want to delete them, or like, no, like, you know, not answering questions about, like, oh, where else other pictures might be, then I would say it's probably not really the best sign.

I think this is a very comeback from a bull thing. Like, I. I think the likelihood is high that he genuinely did forget that they were there and doesn't look at them.

I mean, our. These days, our phones have so much.

There's so many photos and so many.

Like, various, like, cloud backup things. It's like, God knows where certain things are or aren't. Like, I. Yeah, I've definitely found things on my phone. Or I'm like, wait, what? That's from like, like six years ago. From, like, it. You know, it's been transferred over from, like, four phones. And like, how did this even get here with.

You know, when you. If you have these intimate photos of an ex, you're not consciously thinking in a new relationship. Like, okay, we've been together six months now and we've said, I love you. So I guess now's the time for me to go back and delete all my naughty pictures from my exes. Like, there's not a concrete time that you, like, think to do that. And especially, like, yeah, with these Photos, you know, we just forget that we have stuff all the time. So I. I think, like, of course there's a chance that he has purposefully kept them and enjoys continuing to look at them, but I think the odds are very high that it. It was a genuine mistake. I will also say I'm a little bit curious about how this person found the photos.

Yeah.

Did they go snooping? I don't know. But, yeah, I think give him the benefit of the doubt, especially if, like, when you confronted him, he was, oh, my God, I'm so sorry. I didn't realize they were there. Let me delete them right away. Like, if he was just very straightforward with it, then, like, honest mistake, Just move past it. You can ask yourselves, like, yeah, is there anything else from our, you know, past life that we want to get rid of? Like, you know, let's just use this as an opportunity. Now we can both go through our phones together and, like, make sure there's nothing else there but, like, you know, end of the day, like, we all have pasts. We all have, you know, exes and other experiences that we've had. And, like, yes, it's uncomfortable sometimes to know, like, that your partner was in love with somebody else or had sex with other people. But, like, it really doesn't. It's just the reality of life.

You can't delete the memories.

Yeah, you can. Exactly. You're never. I mean, you. Yeah, you can't tell him, like, don't ever think about your ex naked ever again.

Yeah, I mean, like, he's. Yeah, Yeah. I mean, like, yeah, so he has some pictures. I guarantee you. Yes. More memories than. I hate to break it to you, but, like, you know, he's going to remember what this partner looked like. He's going to remember the things that they did together. So, yeah, it's. I would just look at. It's not like, oh, you're never allowed to ever have any reminder that you had an ex or any picture, but more like, yeah. How did he respond in the moment? Like, was it a genuine. Oh, God, yeah. Like, let's get rid of that. Like, here, do you want to look? You know, if that were me, I'd be like, oh, yeah, sure. Like, I. I have nothing to hide from you. Would you like to look through, you know, what's going to help you feel better about this in this moment?

Unless he's like, the husband in the first question who is missing her and his former life with her. But I think, like, the pictures are really interesting because now that I'm thinking of it. I'm trying to think of, like, when is the appropriate time to get rid of them? Because it, like, if I put our, you know, us back into the first few months of our relationship when we were, like, falling in love with each other, like, sure, I wouldn't be happy at that time knowing that you were, like, looking at photos of your ex and, like, masturbating or something like that. Like, that wouldn't feel great to me. But also in those first few months, it's like, we didn't know that we were gonna be married and together 16 years later. And the idea of like. Like, what if you. You know, what if you had deleted those photos in the first couple months and then we broke up, like, a few weeks later and you're like, oh, kind of wish I, like, had those photos back. They were like, nice mementos. I mean, I don't know.

I mean, I think. I mean, this is maybe once you get.

Once you get married, it's like, that's when you got. Delete them. But, like, when is there. When is the exact right time that you're like, I have to get rid of? I mean, let. Make it even more complicated. Think about, like, what if it was a piece of jewelry that an ex had bought you? There's nothing explicit about it. And it's not that you're like, I don't know. Like, yeah, when do. I don't think we need to, like, pretend that we never had a life before we met our partner or get rid of everything that reminds us of a, you know, a past partner or past part of our lives. Obviously, it's different if you're, like, actively thinking about, like, oh, I miss my ex, and, oh, these memories were so amazing, and, oh, I want to look at those pictures again. Like, obviously that's different. But I just think, like, with the pictures in particular, it's just, like, funny to think about, like, when is the exact right time to get rid of those.

Yeah, I mean, really, if you think about it, it's like that. That nowadays, like, I haven't really thought about this because, you know, the last time I was in a relationship was before the smartphone era where. Where, you know, it was so easy to be taking pictures and sending pictures. So, you know, but, like, it does sound like I don't have.

I don't have any naughty pictures of an ex. I never did.

I did. I did have a few. And I mean, for me.

Did you delete them?

I did delete them. Well, this was like, you know, delete them off of, like, a desktop computer or. No, no, it was a big, bulky laptop, but, you know, there was no cloud backup of anything. And. And, you know, for me, it was like. It was a relationship. You know, I. I ended a relationship, and, you know, I didn't feel very good. You know, it was like. It was like those pictures didn't feel good to look at. They were like. It was kind of like, oh, it' reminder of a time that I don't feel very good about. I'm not very happy with, you know, with that relationship, looking back on it. So for me, it was, like, simple. Like, yeah, I'm getting rid of these. Like, this is. This is a. Like a memento that I don't want to have. But I think if that's not the situation, like, maybe when you're breaking up with someone these days, it's important to talk about, you know, hey, like, for me, if I'd sent you a ton of naughty pictures and we were breaking up, I might. I feel like it's kind of on me to be like, hey, would you mind deleting all those photos?

Oh, that's fine.

Yeah, because, you know, it's like, what. What does the ex think of? Because you gave the example of, like, you know, hey, I didn't know a couple months in that we were going to get married. And what if, you know, we broke up and I was like, darn, I wanted those pictures. But I think the real question is, what would the ex think about that? Like, is the ex like, oh, yeah, like, hope you're jacking off to my nudes. Or, like, probably not. Like, most. You know, when you break up, like, most people are like, yeah, let's, like, not.

I think I might. I think I might be flattered. You know, those nudes were just so good. Those memories were so good. They just can't get me out of their minds. I don't know.

Oh, wow. Well, we've really done justice to this one. I think.

We sure have. I think we need to move on to the next one.

Okay, next one. When your partner states that they want to end the relationship when they are angry, but once they cool down, they say it was a mistake and they didn't mean it.

Okay, this is another one where I think you get one or two rounds of this. Like, I want to be realistic when we're in conflict. Like, we. You know, most of us have had bad fights, and most of us have said things in the heat of the moment that we really, you know, Wish we didn't have said, we tried to take back, like, afterwards. Like that is just a human thing that we do. So I wouldn't break up with somebody if they did this once or twice. I would sit down with them in a calm time and I would say, you know, I understand that we're going to get into conflict. I understand that we are going to sometimes say things to each other that we don't mean. And I also think it's really important that we have boundaries around what we say to each other, even in conflict. And so things like threatening to leave the relationship, calling each other really bad names, swearing at each other, any sort of like threatening each other, like, like those things are just off the table. So I, you know, I want us to make a commitment to each other that no matter how upset we get, we are not going to say those things. And I'm just listing like a couple random boundaries that I think would be great for any couple to have. Yours may be different, but I would, like, really lay out very clearly these are our boundaries during conflict. And then if your partner continues to do that going forward, that's just getting into very manipulative territory. So I would reconsider the relationship and really reconsider whether you could come back from it if your partner continued to do that. But I think just have that one conversation.

Yeah, I think it's important to have that conversation and then see what happens. Because I think that when this type of thing happens on an ongoing basis, I would, I would imagine that it's likely it's not intentional. It's that in the heat of the moment, like the. It implies like a person is really struggling with emotional regulation, like bordering on it being a prop. Like you are not able to emotionally regulate in the way that, you know, in a healthy way. And you are, you know, saying things that are saying hurtful and definitive things that, you know, someone who might be able to regulate emotionally more skillfully in that moment would not say. And so it's, it's. I mean, I would say it's. It's effectively like if you are unable to regulate in those moments and you're like, oh God, I'm done with you. Like, it's effect. I mean, not effectively. I would say, like, you actually, this is like an anger management issue. And the anger is coming out, you know, in sort of a vindictive or like breakup, manipulative breakup type of way, rather, you know, it's not like calling you names or whatever. I don't know what else is going on in this situation. But I think that, you know, if it's an ongoing thing, they're not able to recognize that, that it's a problem or if you're like, oh, yeah, well, I'm cooled down. I didn't mean that like, then, yeah, that's a sign that they are, you know, have a sort of an undiagnosed anger management issue. And if they can take some responsibility for. Oh, okay. Like, this is. I'm. I'm realizing this is not something that happens normally in relationships is something that's happening to me. I'm feeling out of control. Can they get some help to address that? Because I think, you know, as a psychologist, when you say this is an addressable issue with therapy.

Yeah.

So if they're willing to do that, then great, you can absolutely move on from this. But no, I would say if this is an ongoing, like, long term thing that's hanging over you, don't. Don't be in a relationship like that. It's not healthy.

Okay. Xander, another interesting one. My boyfriend text other women, but he says it's just for entertainment. In quotes. He says he just wants to feel wanted by people other than me.

Run. That's all I have to say. I'm out.

That's all you have to say?

It's a no for me dog.

It's a no for me dog too.

Yeah.

There are so many red flags in this.

I mean, so many red flags. The only exception is if. The only exception is if you are in a non monogamous arrangement. Assuming you are in a monogamous arrangement. Just run. Get the fuck out. This is not the. There are so many red flags and alarm bells here. If, if this is some, some alternate arrangement, some non monogamy going on here.

I don't. I think if they were in a non monogamous relationship, the person would not have sent this in.

I, I think that too. But, you know, who knows? You know that one about the, you know about the. Like, you know, if you gain weight, blah, blah, blah. You know, like, I would think if, if someone led the person into that question, maybe you wouldn't send that question in. But who knows? You know, they sent it in. They meo. We people, we like to cherry pick sometimes. We like to pick and choose what we share. So, yeah, if it's something. If there is. If this is actually okay in your arrangement, that then go for it. But otherwise, no.

Yeah.

All right. I think we made it to our last one, Vanessa, which is. He told me love is a strong Word. And wouldn't say, he loves me, but he tolerates me. Wow. Bro.

I. Why are these all from men? First of all? Okay, I know why they are all from men because we have a primarily female audience over on Instagram. But men, What? Like.

Like, bro, why are you in a relationship?

What are you doing?

Maybe relationships are just not for you. I.

We have to be fair, though. You have said your fair share of boneheaded things. I feel like there's just a little screw that's missing in male brains somehow that just, like, you guys don't understand sometimes how things sound when they come out, but you've never said anything remotely close to this. This is really bad. Love is a strong word. The only time this is acceptable is if you've been dating, like, a couple of months and you haven't said I love you yet. But even then, why are you dating somebody who just tolerates you?

Yeah, I mean, tolerating is a pretty low bar. I tolerate most people. Like, pretty much everybody that I know that I continue to be around, I tolerate. If I don't tolerate people, then they're not an active part of my life. So I tolerate everybody who's actively in my life. So it's, like, not a very high bar. Like, by. By this. By this person's standards, like, you could probably be with anybody.

I. I know we're giggling about this one a little bit, but, like, at the end of the day, this is just. It's a cruel thing to say to somebody that you care about. And I'm so sorry.

Like, you care.

Well, you know, presumably you're, like, in a relationship with. But I. I'm really very sorry to the person who sent this in that you are in a relationship with somebody you. That they just tolerate you because you are worthy of so much more than that.

You're worthy of love.

You're worthy of love, and you're worthy of a partner who's going to be kind to you and not say these, like, offhanded, cruel things to you. This is another one where I just, like. I can't fathom a circumstance where the partner would be trying to convey something meaningful or valuable. Like, this is just mean. It's just mean. And you deserve so much more than that. So this one's a. Just like Xander responded to the last one. Run. Get out of there. I promise you, there is somebody in the world who is going to tell you that they more than tolerate you, that they love you. All right, well, that is it for round two of can we come back from this. Thank you so much for sending in your submissions, and we would love to hear from you on Instagram. We are at Vanessa and Xander. If you're not following us there already, come follow us there. Let us know. Should we do a part three of can we come back from this? Do you disagree with any of our hot takes on any of these situations?

Yeah. What would you have done different? What would you say different?

If you sent in any of these, do you want to flesh them out with more details of the story so we can get a better picture of what was going on? Do you have your own can we come back from this? Like, just come tell us all the things. Pop into our DMs. Slide into our DMs.

I don't know.

Pop into our DMs is slide right into our DMs. We would love to connect with you over there.

All right, and that's it for today's episode of Pillow Talks. Thank you so much for listening. Join us again next week when we talk about grief and sex. Sam.