Episode 131: How Honest Is Too Honest?

I think that this might be one of the questions that people will disagree with us the most on. And so I do think that this is a good conversation for every couple to have of like, hey, if we were to develop a crush on somebody else, would you want to hear about it? Hello and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Xander Marin. I'm a sex Therapist with over 20.

Years of experience and I'm just a regular dude. We should the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.

Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. Thanks to Cozy Earth for continuing to support Pillow Talks. Give the gift of a good night's rest with cozy earth. Get 35% off site wide when you use code pillow talks@cozyearth.com this episode is sponsored by Uncommon Goods, an online shop dedicated to unique and high quality gifts made by artists and independent businesses. To get 15% off your next gift, go to uncommongoods.com pillow and thanks to Jeju for supporting Pillow Talks. Jeju is a premium sex toy company that has been encouraging individuals to explore their bodies since 2005. Go to j e-o u e.com for their Black Friday sale that runs from November 10th to November 30th for up to 50% off. Today we are going to attempt to answer the question how honest is too honest?

Ooh.

So I feel like this is a line that you hear often during couples arguments. But I was just being honest.

Yeah, like I should be celebrated for telling the truth.

And because, I mean, we do get taught that honesty is a good thing. Honesty is the best policy.

I was about to say that.

Yeah, like, we're supposed to be honest, right? So we might start off with these good intentions. Like, I'm just trying to be honest. This is a good thing. Right? But we do think that there is a line where honesty crosses over into cruelty. And maybe it wasn't even the intention. I think in the majority of these cases, like, people aren't meaning to be jerks to each other, but we prioritize honesty over considering the impact of our words on our partner. So we put this question out to Instagram. We said, tell us about a situation where you have said something to your partner or your partner has said something to you that left you just wondering, was that Too honest? Like, was it actually valuable for either one of us to say that thing that we said? Or maybe should we have just kept our mouths shut?

And we're not always. It's not always this binary of, like, should you say it or should you not say it? I think so often it's about the delivery of what it is that you are trying to say. Like, there is a way to say it. Maybe it's not you don't say the whole thing all at once, but it's like you ease your way into it. You tee up the conversation rather than just going all in on, like, yeah, actually, I felt this way for five years and I haven't told you, and now I'm telling you, and I hate this per. I hate your best friend, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, I don't know. I mean, I'm, like, trying to come up with examples without, like, jumping ahead to what we're going to talk about.

Okay, so here's the thing, though. So we put that question box up on Instagram. One of our team members and I went through the box, and we selected the questions. Xander has not seen any of the scenarios.

Blissfully in the dark, so.

And the two of us obviously, like, have not talked about the scenarios. So you're gonna get our live opinions in the middle of this episode.

You're gonna get Xander being honest about what he thinks. And will I be too honest? I don't know. I guess you can judge me. Is Xander being too honest?

Yeah, I'll make you answer all of them first, and then I'll tell you. Was that too honest or not honest enough?

Wow, that's kind of meta. Like, is Xander being too honest about being too honest about other people being too honest, or maybe not too honest?

We'll see.

Should that be the episode title, what I just said?

Yeah, I think that'll really make people want to listen to it for sure. So I will also say I think this is a great episode to listen to with your partner. A great way to introduce them to the podcast. I think it's really fun with scenarios like these to, like, listen to the scenario, pause the episode, the two of you talk about it. Like, what do you think? Is it. Was it too honest? Was it not too honest? And then press play and listen to our reactions. It's just like a fun conversation starter while you're making dinner. Maybe, like, on a road trip in the car. Anything like that.

This is also a really sneaky way to work on your communication together without it feeling like oh, we have to work on our communication because you're able to talk kind of more objectively or talk about a third party, talk about other people who aren't you and talk about, ah, if I were in this situation, this is how I would say this. And your partner could be like, oh, well, if, you know, if you, if you were to say it like that, then maybe I would feel this way or that way. So it's like a way to kind of like, play the game tape and dig into it without there being any kind of personal feelings attached. Because it's not something that either of you did or said, but you still get those reps of like, oh, yeah, like, this is what, like, I see what would have worked or what wouldn't have worked. And it's easy to start applying that in real life of like, oh, yeah. Okay, so if I were to say something similar to that, Vanessa might be pissed off or, ah, maybe I should take this approach that she mentioned as, like, this would feel better to me. But first, we're going to hit you with some more honesty, which is our review of the week. Your honest opinion about our podcast. What you. Would it be hilarious if this was the week that we got, like, a really mean review?

Oh, my God, that would be so sad. We shouldn't have done that. And, like, was this review too honest?

That was a missed opportunity. I'm going to say. I, you know, I wasn't involved in this because, you know, we wanted it to be a surprise for me. But yeah, you know, sometimes you're honest with me about my transitions into review of the week not being the best. So I'm just gonna say that that was a missed opportunity. So next time we do round two of two, how honest is too Honest? Well, hit us with a bad review. I don't think we have a lot of bad reviews.

I don't think we do. Fortunately, we have great reviews and we really, really appreciate that.

Yeah, we appreciate that. Let's not challenge people to write. Write your words. Okay. Slump Smasher. Oh, Smasher.

Slump Smasher.

Wow. After four plus years of pregnancy, raising babies and toddlers, we struggled in our relationship to connect as a couple. We were good at parenting together, but when it came to a relationship, we didn't have it in us. The podcast opened up a conversation, and we figured out we were feeling the same thing. Even starting the conversation made a huge difference. I no longer felt like it was just my fault. I wasn't wanting to be intimate. Vanessa and Xander helped us feel normal and open to work on our relationship. I. I love the parent specific episodes as they are so relatable. They also talk about things nobody else will. So reassuring. Thank you vnx, for saving us from a four year slump. We smashed that slump for them, babe.

That's amazing.

Or maybe they smashed their way out of the slump.

They did smush their way out of the slump. Thank you so much for taking the time to leave this review. And this is exactly why reviews are so important. Like, can you imagine that being in a similar situation, you're looking for podcasts, trying to find something that will help you stumble across this pillow talks podcast thing, and you read something like that. Like, that's so normalizing and it really makes you think, like, okay, this is gonna be worth my time. Let me check out this episode. So this is why we value these reviews so much. It's not just to, like, blow up our egos and make us feel good about ourselves. Like, it really helps the podcast get in front of more people. It helps more people want to check it out and feel like they can trust us. So we appreciate it so much. If you have ever gotten a tip from a single episode that helped your life, we would be so appreciative if you could leave a review for the podcast. So here's how to do it. You go over to the main Pillow Talks page on Apple Podcasts, scroll to the bottom and you'll see the review section right there. So you just type in your review right there, and then we will automatically enter you into a giveaway every week going forward. So if you hear your review read in an episode, you can email@infomtherapy.com and you will get to pick a prize. We do a little prize every single week, just as our way of saying thank you for taking the time to support the podcast. All right, let's get into it.

Hit me with that honesty.

Let me read you the first scenario. My partner has a very toxic, unhealthy relationship with her dad, but she acts just like him when she's upset and angry and can be pretty mean to me when she's in that mode, which is exactly what her father did. I want to tell her she's acting just like him, but I feel it would upset her so much because she so badly doesn't want to be anything like him or have anything to do with him. She would be mortified. But a part of me thinks she does need to hear it, though. Oh, Xander, what do you think? So this is a good one. This person has not said it yet.

Yeah, that's good.

Would it be too honest to tell your partner you are acting exactly like your dad who you do not like?

Okay, here's what I think. I think that if. If this person were to wait until the next time she is mean to him like that and then drop this on her, hey, that doesn't feel good. And actually, it. You're kind of doing the thing that your dad does that you always talk about hating. I think that might be a little too much. I think that there's a way to tee this up better than that.

Okay, wait, so your hot take is too honest?

Ugh, this one's so true. Because it's like, look, if. If. If I were in this situation and you were just, like, really, really mean to me and, like. And like, I feel like I were to snap kind of and just say it, I don't think it would be really. It's not, like, too honest. I. But I do think there's a better way. There's a better way to do this.

Ooh, interesting. We are disagreeing right off the bat. I think this is way too honest.

Okay?

I say too honest. I think you absolutely should call your partner out on bad behavior when they are upset or angry. It's not okay if they're being mean to you or, you know, whatever else the details are. So you need to talk about that. But do not say you're acting just like your dad. Like that sentence. For somebody who has a difficult relationship with their parent, that sentence is just gonna say, send them straight into angry and defensive mode, and they are not going to hear a word of what you are saying about their behaviors. So I just think that it's completely unhelpful. It's not going to go over well. It's not going to be effective, and I do think it's cruel. Like, and again, the original this person, like, they should not be acting angry and upset and mean to you. Like, that's not okay. But if, you know, this is a sore spot for my partner and I'm just going to poke it anyways. Like, that's mean. I think that's mean.

Yeah. Yeah, I agree. And I think this person needs to very quickly start talking about what doesn't feel good to them when their partner is mean to them, like, in those moments and calling out, hey, like, center it on you and how that feels to you. Don't center it on them and how what they're doing is, like, what their dad does. Because in a way, it's like, well, who cares what their dad does? The important thing is your partner's being mean to you and that doesn't feel good to you. That's not the type of relationship that you want to have. Right. So you got to start talking about, you know, making sure they are aware that hey, this, this thing keeps happening and it doesn't feel good to me when that happens.

I have a slight issue though with what you said, like centered on you rather than on them. Like, you definitely want to share your experience. Experience. But if your partner is being like. And obviously we don't know the details and that's the challenge of doing any sort of episode like this. I forgot to give the little disclaimer at the top. Like, you know, we're just getting the little DM that somebody's sending to us. We don't know. Obviously there's like years or decades of history behind this, so we're looking at a small piece of it. But I do think like, if there's something like let's say the partner is calling the names or something like that, like I think they need to say like, hey, calling me names is unacceptable. Like, I won't stand for that kind of behavior.

Oh yeah, to be clear, I 100% agree with you. I wasn't trying to not say that. But what I mean is like each time from here on out that their partner is mean to them, calling their names, whatever it is. I mean, it's hard to say. They don't really say is it name calling or what. It's just like she's pretty mean when she gets into this mode. Is that. Yeah, like it's going to be so much more productive for you for your partner to become aware of. Ah, you're like, you're doing this thing right now where you're getting really mean and that doesn't feel good to me. That's not like an acceptable way. That doesn't feel like an acceptable way for us to communicate. And I mean that maybe the next level of that is like, hey, this, this is something that seems to happen a lot. It seems like you're in like totally fine spirits and then all of a sudden something flips and then you get into this mean place. I think that would be the next level of it is like, hey, this is a trend. You can talk about this entire thing and how it's a trend or a pattern without even bringing the dad into it. And honestly I feel like she is likely at a certain point to make that connection.

Uh huh. Here's a sneaky thing that you can do is the next time that she complains about her dad and the things that he's doing or saying to her, ask her some questions about that. Like, huh, what does that feel like for you? And what came up for you when he said that? So it's like you're kind of trying to get her to be a little bit more thoughtful about what the experience is like for her. And, you know, and maybe she'll be able to in that moment, see, like, ooh, this is actually something that I might be doing as well.

Yeah. And another idea. I'm curious what you think about this, Vanessa. Another idea would be you could try to use similar language when you talk about her experience with her dad, and then use similar or the same language when you're talking to her about this thing that is happening between the two of you. So if it's like, you know, she's. She's talking about, oh, this argument that she got into with her dad, you could be like, oh, so it's like, everything was fine, and then, like, he snapped and he got really mean. So it's like you're saying snapped and got mean. And so then the next time she does that to you, you can say, oh, it's like, it's feeling like I'm feeling confused, because it seems like kind of something snapped, and then you got really mean, and I'm not sure what's going on. So I think that could be one way to tie it together. You know, I wouldn't come up with a really, like, niche phrase where it's, like, obvious, but it's like, you know, if you're using that same language, that's totally fair and that's totally honest, because that is exactly what's happening. I'm curious what you think.

Yeah, you could try that. I'm not sure exactly how it would go, but you could try that. I think another thing that you could try is to talk about your own relationship with, like, similarities that you notice in yourself and your parents. Because all of us emulate our parents in certain ways. Like, that's just psychology 101, you know.

Like, yeah, I'm not surprised that this is happening.

Yeah. I mean, our parents serve as our role models and our examples, and all of us imitate our parents. The good behaviors and some of the bad behaviors.

Yeah. We really don't want to be like them.

Yeah. So you. If there's anything that you notice about yourself of, like, yeah, I struggle with being confrontational, just like my mom, you know, where you're kind of opening the conversation. You're being self reflective talking about it. Don't make it too pointed. Like, do you notice anything that you do that might be kind of similar to your dad? Wink, wink, hint, hint, hint. But I think if you're genuinely approaching it from like a place of introspection and curiosity about yourself and like trying to have this objective conversation, conversation not being too leading about it, that could be interesting too.

All right, moving on to our next one. My partner randomly told me one night he does not like to perform oral sex. I tried to get curious and ask questions, and his response was that once when going down on me, he found my smell unpleasant. He told me that he did some research and learned that my smell is likely largely attributed to my diet and potentially some things beyond my control. He suggested that I might try showering both in the morning and at night to help. I told him I found this very hurtful and that I felt ashamed. He couldn't understand why I was hurt. He was only being honest and wasn't it important to be honest? I found that the whole thing completely lacked empathy and kindness.

I think my answer is very obvious from the noises that I could not prevent myself from making. While you read that this is way too honest.

Yes, this is.

We're in agreement here.

Yes. Well, also, I mean, the really ridiculous thing is that what the person is saying is that one time, yeah, one time he noticed a smell. This person, this person is not saying, oh, yeah, like I've noticed that. Oh, you know, over time, that even regardless, it's like, it's still messed up regardless of that. But it's not like, oh, yeah, no, like every single time it's this smell and it's different from before and it's the pattern. It's like, oh, yeah, one time this was unpleasant.

My guess is that this is a person who's really inexperienced with oral sex, who doesn't realize that vulvas are meant to smell and taste like vulvas, not like bubble gum or candy apple or any of that other bullshit out there.

And also that that that smell can change, like throughout the cycle as well. Like, I don't.

Yeah, I mean, I don't think this is an issue of like she actually smells or she has some sort of infection or something like that. Like, I think this is. Her partner was really inexperienced and I think, yeah, the way of delivering this is really bad to have like to say it's unpleasant to then say, I did research. Like, I would be mortified if you Told me. I did research. Like, I was Googling. Why do you smell so bad?

Yeah. Cause I know more about your body than you do now. Cause I did. I went on Google and I.

And then to suggest showering twice a day, which, by the way, is actually quite unhealthy for your body. That's actually gonna lead, ironically, to more odor if you're showering that often. But to, like, suggest that, like, the whole thing is just straight up bad, so way too honest. I do wanna. I wanna kind of go there with this example, though.

Okay.

Because we've had something similar that happened in our relationship.

We have.

Okay. So this. I want to tell this. Definitely never told this story on the podcast before. I was not planning on telling the story on the podcast, but we will.

Go there in the interest of honesty.

In the interest of honesty.

Is it gonna be too honest? I don't know.

Okay. So there was one time early in our relationship, back when I was still using tampons, which now I have happily switched to a menstrual cup long ago. But I forgot about that last tampon. Everybody who has a vulva, you know about that last tampon of your cycle. It's like.

It's just.

You're barely hanging on there. It's just soaking up a little bit.

And you're like, one more for good.

Luck, one more for good luck. And you know what? I forgot about it. And it was up in there for a little while. And so there was one time that we were having sex where I noticed that there was an odor that smelled different than it normally did, but I was just like, I don't really know what that is, but whatever. And you stopped in the middle of sex, and you said, I actually can't remember the exact word, but I think you were like. You're like, babe, I'm really sorry, but, like, something just smells different. That's the word that you said, different.

I think that I was trying. I was trying to be very careful with my words.

You were. And I. And I could tell both the delivery of it. Like, it was.

I was nervous.

I know you were really nervous. And you said it very delicately. And you did say the word different. Because I remember that, obviously in that moment, like, I realized the second that you said it, like, something snapped in my brain, and I was like, the tampon. And it had been in there for, like, two days at that point, and, like, it was not a good situation. So I instantly recognized what it was, and I was mortified. Like, this is hands down one of the most embarrassing experiences of my life. I, again, cannot quite believe that I'm selling this on this podcast, but I feel like a lot of people have had this experience too. So, yeah, that was awful for me, and I can really empathize with how that must have been really challenging for you. Like, there was an odor. It was different than it normally was. And for you to be sitting there in that moment of, like, do I say something or do I not say something? Like, I kind of think something is off. And so I do want to empathize with anybody who's had the experience of, like, yeah, there's something. I think you started off the question talking a little bit about this, like, is something different from what it normally is. So, again, like, we want to normalize. Vulvas smell and taste like organs. They are not meant to, like, taste delicious. Like, they don't taste or smell bad. You just really like to normalize. Like, bodies smell like body.

Yeah. And, like. And, like, dude out there, I'm sure you're not listening to this podcast, but I can promise you that your junk doesn't taste like roses either, and that some days it tastes one way and other days it tastes another. Maybe you bodies taste like bodies a little bit. Like, it's not. Yeah, it's like, you know, your. Your dick is not God's gift to men, to women.

But, yeah, I also just. Yeah, I want to normalize, too. Like, the tampon thing can happen. Infections can happen. STIs can happen. Like, you know, especially with the vagina, the ph balance can be really delicate and it can get thrown off. So I understand, like, that vulnerable position of, like, noticing that your partner's odor is different and, like, not knowing exactly how to approach them. But again, the way that this guy did it just. Everything's wrong about this.

Yeah, I mean, and also, like, what I was saying is that, like, things can. Can change throughout the cycle. I think there was a time somewhat recently where, you know, before you got your. Before you got your IUD out, your. Your cycle was, like, a bit variable. So you didn't always know, like, exactly when your period was coming. And I. I believe somewhat recently, like, I was. I was going down on you, and then. And then we had sex. And then afterwards, you were like, you know, you were like, oh, whoops. Like, my period just came. And, like, you know, I noticed, like, a bit, like, a bit of a more metallic flavor. I don't know what the right word is, but it's like, that's just part of the Deal like that. Like that. That's what we signed up for.

Like, tell the real story. If we're being honest. Tell the real story.

Well, I don't know. Is there any more?

I sat on your face. It wasn't great. It wasn't that. You just went down on me. I like, oh, you sat on your face and made you go down on me and you knew that I was like, had started my period or something.

Like, no, I didn't know.

Yeah, you did.

How would I have known?

Or something.

No, it was afterwards. You were like, oh, whoops.

Yeah, and then, then I like, yeah, afterwards I was like, oh, my God. I sat on his face and made him go down on me while I had just started period.

It wasn't like. It wasn't bloody.

No, it wasn't like full on. But there was like. I mean, and we talk about this a lot too. Like, even with sex in the middle of your period, there's very little menstrual fluid that's actually coming out, if you do the math, which we have. And it was at the very beginning of my period, so it was like, it was hardly anything, but it was.

Like, there was a bit of like, you know, metallic or iron. Iron. I don't really know what iron tastes like. I'm just assuming, but I mean, it's just like, yeah, like that. Like, shit happens. It's not like disgusting. It's just like, oh, that's different. You know, like everything, like, bodies change. Like, we. I don't know, guys out there. You gotta do better. Gotta, gotta do better.

Oh, my God. I did not expect that this was gonna be us telling our most embarrassing stories in the middle of the podcast. Also, I think that one of the dogs just farted quite loudly. So I just want to make it clear in case you want to clear the air. I want to clear the air that. In case that sound came up on the. On the mics. That was a dog.

I didn't hear a thing.

Okay, I'll read you the next one.

Okay.

I unintentionally got a crush on a classmate while in a relationship with a long distance partner. My partner and I always told each other, cheating is a deal breaker. I never cheated. But the crush felt like I was being dishonest to my partner. So I told him I had a crush on a classmate. He was so upset, sad, and insecure. After I told him and was worried about me cheating, I told him because I thought it would be good to be honest, and I thought me telling him would show him that I had no plans to act on it, but instead it hurt and worried him. I felt so bad for hurting him with my honesty. Was it too honest for this person to tell their partner that they had a crush?

This is tricky. So my gut says, yes, it's too honest. Then again, I don't really know what exactly constitutes, like, a crush. Like, is it just that this person has been looking at this person and thinking about them? Or, like, have they been talking and flirting and, like, messaging with each other? But I think it. I guess it really comes down to almost, like, what are the bounds of your relationship? What are the expectations of your relationship? I mean, I think that it's fairly normal. It's. It's fairly normal for people to get kind of minor crushes, I guess. Or, like, it's so hard to tell what exactly is meant by the word crush.

I think this is very mild. I think the person who wrote this, like, was just a little attracted to somebody. But the way that they wrote it, I don't think. I mean, they. They make clear to say multiple times, like, I never was going to act on it. So I think this is something small. I think that this was too honest. I do believe that having crushes when you're in a relationship is normal. It's common. It's nothing to be ashamed or embarrassed of. Like, we can't control the feelings that we have for people. And if we spend time with somebody and they're attractive and they're kind and funny or whatever it is, like, you're gonna have a little bit of a, like, oh, what if? Kind of thing, like, that's very normal. Of course it's a problem if you're actively, you know, and everybody's gonna have different, like, guidelines about what feels appropriate and inappropriate in their relationship. But, like, obviously, if you have a crush and you're, like, trying to spend time alone with them or flirting with them or, like, trying to make something happen, obviously that's an issue. But if it's just like, I have a little bit of a crush on somebody, I have some feelings for somebody. I don't think that's anything to be ashamed of, because, again, it's not something that we have. Have control of. So I understand the desire to, like, like, this person was probably feeling guilty and, like, let me just share this and get it out in the open so it doesn't feel like this shameful secret. But I do think that it's just not something that we need to tell our partners, because I don't Think it does any good? Like, of course your partner is going to worry. Like, wait, you have a crush on somebody and we're long distance and you're seeing this other person all the time?

Like, for you to tell me, it must be really serious.

Exactly.

This person is thinking, oh, yo. They're just gonna. Oh, y. Because I'm telling you, it's really minor. And the other person's like, wait, you're telling me?

So it must be a big deal.

So this must be bigger than. Than you're saying that it is.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I think, like, telling somebody, not telling your partner about a crush, I don't think that that is being secretive or anything like that. I think it's just being human. Yeah, well, no, I just think it's not like, I don't think there's any benefit to telling your partner that you have a crush. I don't think it does anything good for your partner or for the relationship. So I think that. That that's kinder and healthier to not share.

Yeah, I mean, I think crush is also, like, they come and go, right? Like, yeah, Often it's like, oh, you know, I don't know, you meet someone new or something, and it's like, for a week or something, you're like, oh, this person's really interesting, or like, oh, they're really attractive or whatever. And in my experience, usually after a couple of weeks, you get to know the person a little better or whatever. You see them in a different light, and it's kind of like, okay, yeah, that thing that I. You know, often that crush is like. It's the not knowing very much about someone, and you start to kind of project all these ideas on them. And then usually once you get to know somebody a little better, you're like, oh, yeah, okay. They're just like any other person that I know. So I think there's that. And if you were to say, like, you can't get rid of this crush and it's going on and on and on, or like, you've had a crush on this person for years and you can't stop thinking about them. I mean, I would go maybe, like, talk to a friend or a therapist about that first. Maybe before you go talk to your partner.

Yeah.

About it. Like, see if you can nip that thing in the butt. I mean, what I was also going to say is, like, yeah, okay. If you are in a relationship where you guys have talked very clearly about, like, it is not okay for us to ever be attracted to anybody else. Then, yeah, this is a problem. And I guess it's good that you told your partner. I would not recommend that anybody get into a relationship where that's the standard, because I don't. Because I don't think that that's realistic.

It's not something that we have control over. You can't, like, force yourself to like or not like somebody. It doesn't work that way.

But there, I think, are a lot of people that are in relationships with unreasonable expectations of that. And so I can understand how this person felt like, oh, my God, I'm doing something horribly wr. Wrong, and I have to tell about it. So I think that this is so important at the beginning of relationships to talk about this. I know you and I talked about this where it's like, yeah, like, we have eyes that work. We see people. It's like, it's okay to look at somebody. You know, it's okay to be attracted to someone. It's almost like, honestly, it's helpful to talk to your partner. Like, hey, do you think this person is attractive? Like, I think they're kind of cute or pretty hot or. Or whatever. Just to kind of take some of that charge away from it.

I think that this might be one of the questions that people will disagree with us the most on. And so I do think that this is a good conversation for every couple to have. Of, like, hey, if we were to develop a crush on somebody else, would you want to hear about it? Because I want to acknowledge, like, people are going to have very different feelings about this. There are some couples who'd be like, yeah, I want to hear about it. Because that actually turns me off.

It brings a little charge into the relationship.

Yeah. Whereas other people are like, do not tell me about it. I don't want to. To know. That's just going to, like, hurt my feelings and make me feel paranoid. So this is a great example of something to, like, pause this episode, talk about this with your partner. Like, would you want to know? Would you not want to know? So, actually, Xander, would you want to know if I have a crush on someone?

Oh. I mean, I know that you have crushes on people, and I know who they are.

Well, not celebrities. Celebrities don't count.

Yeah, I'm totally fine with that.

If it was somebody in our life, like a friend of ours. If I said I had a crush.

I think I would.

The question is, do you? Would you want to know? Not, would you be fine knowing?

Oh, God. I mean, I guess I wouldn't really want it. I wouldn't really. If it was someone that's close to us, if it's like a. If it's someone that's, like, close to us that we see a lot, I probably would not, because then that would. It would kind of take on a different tone when we would be around that person. I mean, is this, like, kind of messed up and gendered in a way? Like, I have. Actually, if it was a. If it was a woman, I would have zero problem. Absolutely zero problem. I feel very confident in what I bring to the table.

A penis.

For whatever reason. That just doesn't. You know, I know that you're attracted to women, and I. That doesn't. It just, like, it doesn't compute in my brain.

Okay. I don't really want to know if you have a crush, like a celebrity or something like that. Sure, whatever. But, yeah, if it's, like, somebody in our life that we're seeing regularly. Well, here's the thing. I think there's a big difference between saying, I think someone is attractive and I have a crush.

Yes. I don't care if you say.

Yeah, I don't care if you say someone's attractive. I think it's kind of fun to talk about people that we think are attractive. Like, I ask you that all the time. Like, we'll be watching a reality show or something, and I'm like. Like the Bachelor. And I'm like, which of these women do you think is the prettiest? Like, I actually like to know that.

The answer is almost always no.

But, yeah, if it was like, saying I have a crush on somebody, that I'd be like, nah, I don't really. Like, I don't care. I wouldn't choose to know about that, actually.

I guess I would. I would revise mine to be the same.

Okay.

I'm okay with. Yeah. Attractive. I'm. I'm only okay with female crushes.

Okay, I'll keep that in mind.

Yeah.

All right. I want to read this one to you again because I want to get your hot take on it first. My husband has been laid off from his last two jobs. I felt I needed to be honest and asked whether he had a blind spot for anything that he could do better with at work. I don't think it's supportive if I blindly take his side at all times and just assume it was all his employer's fault. But it really hurt him to think I questioned his competence at work. So I wanted to read this one to you in particular, because I do think there's something about Like a man.

Yes.

And his competence at work. At work. So as a man, do you think this is being too honest?

I'm gonna say yes. I think that this is too honest. I would say that this is more of a. A too honest in a wrong. Wrong place, wrong time situation. I think that this is a somewhat acceptable. I would still word it maybe a little different. I think this is an acceptable conversation to have before someone has been fired. I think if someone has already been fired from a job, I think it is a bit. Rubbing salt in the wounds to be like, if. Unless the person who has been fired is asking, hey, like, what. What do you think I could have done different? Or is being introspective and asking for your advice, I think it is a bit cruel to be like, all right, buddy, like, tell me what you could have done better. I think that's a little hard. I do think that, you know, if you are. If you are struggling in your job or maybe you've had, like, you know, a negative. A poor performance review or something like, you know, I do think that it. There is a. There is an okay way to kind of talk about, like, to not necessarily blindly take your partner's side and like, oh, man, your boss just must be really out to get you. And it's like, oh, like, I wonder, are there. You know, are there any things that are in your control in this situation? I would put it more in that way in framing it, like, what things could be in your control to, you know, improve the situation. Because I. With jobs, it's so easy to deflect and be like, oh, well, it's my boss. It's my boss's boss. It's the company, blah, blah. Like, you know, it's all these external things that are causing you problems. And I do think that you. It's okay to try to reframe it and be like, okay. Yep. Of course there's always external things happening, but, like, you know, is there anything that's within your control that you know could be done differently or that you could try different, but at. After this has happened? I don't know. It feels tough.

Yeah, I feel a little bit torn on this one. I do think it's too honest, but I do sort of agree with this person that just blindly taking your partner's side at all times isn't actually supportive. Like, I think part of a true partnership is being willing to, like, ask tough questions and to, like, encourage each other to grow and be our best selves, not just like, you're perfect and everybody else is an idiot and, like, what were they thinking? Kind of thing.

Yeah, totally agree with that.

But, yeah, I. I think that, like, and this is one where I just really want more details. Like, I think you ask these questions really matters. So I think, like, if your partner came home and said, like, I just got laid off from work, of course you should ask, like, oh, my God, what happened? You know, and, like, want to get the story and, like, yeah, ask them, like, well, what did you think about that? Do you think that's fair? Like, you know, that kind of stuff. So ask some questions about it. But, yeah, I think that it feels like asking. Asking it, like, do you have a blind spot? Does feel a little bit condescending to me.

Yes. Well, because also, if you were to say that to me, hey, do you think maybe you have a blind spot for things you could do better? The first thing I would. The first thing I would think is it's a leading question. It sounds like. It sounds like you got a bunch of ideas.

Yeah.

You think you're testing me. Oh, can you. Can you come up with the stuff that I already have?

Yeah.

So it's like, yeah, if. If you have some ideas, then maybe you could ask, hey, might you be open to some feedback? And then if they are open, you could share some ideas. But saying something like that, I'm guessing this person doesn't actually. It sounds like a poor choice of words, perhaps because they're not saying, oh, I actually have a suspicion that it was these things that they did. They're trying to cue their partner to be introspective. But I think that, yeah, the time for being introspective is like, Is in a moment where you actually can do something about it, which is before you've been laid off.

Yeah.

So it's like, it's just a rubbing salt in the wound at this.

Yeah. Like, if. If the partner came home and was like, oh, I had my performance review today, and, like, you know, they said all this stuff like, yeah, then that's a great time to say, like, oh, how do you feel about that? Does that feel like, you know, reasonable feedback? Like, do you, you know, do you want any advice? Do we want to, like, work? You know, is there any way I can support you? Yada, yada. But, yeah, saying it right after they've been fired. And again, the timing of this one really matters too. Like, if it literally was like, your husband came home and said he got fired, and you're like, do you have any blind spots? That's gonna be very hurtful the day that your partner gets fired. That's just for empathy and compassion and like, I'm so sorry, like, I'm here for you, yada yada. You can loop back around to these conversations later. Or another good time to talk about it would be like, when your partner's applying to jobs.

Yeah.

You know, asking them at that point, like, yeah, is there anything that you want to be different about this job than the last one? But I also think this is a good example of a time when it's important to ask your partner, like, do you just want to vent right now or do you want some.

I was waiting to drop this. I was waiting to drop this in. I mean, I think that that's a great. That's a great thing. Whether it's before they've lost the job or after they've lost the job. I think that. But, you know, it's. Especially with your partner, it's give only give feedback if your partner's open to receiving feedback or advice or whatever. And that's why it's so important to be like, you know, whether it's, oh, God, I just had the worst performance review. Like, my boss said this really mean thing to me or I got fired. And whatever is, hey, like, well, like what, like, what are you needing from me right now? Are you looking. Are you just looking to vent about this and looking for some support, or are you looking for some problem solving or advice or feedback or questions? And that's a way because very likely, especially if this person got upset by this conversation, they were probably looking to vent. And so not only did they not get to vent, they then got this very leading question asked and then felt even worse about themselves. And so, yeah, I mean, and I think that you kind of have to respect that as a partner. If you, if your partner is just. Is not ever open to the feedback, then like, yeah, maybe it's not.

It.

Maybe you shouldn't give it. Yeah, but. And, and it, but if that's bothering you and that's a pattern time after time after time, then, yeah, maybe that's like a, you know, maybe that's a sign that this relationship isn't really going to work because there's not a possibility for ever giving feedback. But. But I think it's just something to consider.

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All right, Vanessa, what do you think about this one? I told my partner I didn't like my engagement ring. I told him it was fine, but not what I would have picked. When we continued talking, he said he got it because he liked it and thought I would like it too. Not that he thought I would like it, which hurt me. I had the expectation this was something that would be all mine and my preferences would be the only thought.

This is such a good one. This is really interesting. This is. I will skirt this question and just say, this is why I recommend engagement ring shopping together.

Yep.

That is what we did. I got to pick. I was like, yeah, I'm wearing this ring on my hand for the rest of my life. Ironically, I'm not wearing it right at this moment.

Wow, Rude.

I have my wedding ring on. Sometimes I just wear the band.

Okay, fair.

But I was like, you know, I'm wearing this ring for the rest of my life. I want to like it. And I think this is the prime example of an area where we fall into the trap of thinking our partner should be able to read our minds. Most partners, no matter how thoughtful and kind they are, are not going to magically know the exact style of ring that you like. And especially if you have a male partner, like, most men don't know she about rings.

You know, probably never looked. He's probably never looked at a ring before in his life.

Yeah, he just go to a store, and there's going to be some salesperson who's like, oh, this style is all the rage these days. Like, can you imagine if you had to get the ring on your own without any help from me?

I mean, I can 100% imagine going into a store and, like, you know, the salesperson is like, okay, so, like, you know, what kind. What type of cut does she like? What type of, you know, whatever. And if I didn't have aunt. If I was like, I don't know. I don't know. Like, they're trying to sell you an expensive diamond ring. Like, they want to close the sale, right? So eventually they probably try a bunch of different things, and eventually it's like, okay, well, like, if you don't know what she likes, like, what do you like? Let's get something that you're happy with. Like, oh, my God.

Yeah. So that's my little tangent. Buy your engagement rings together. It was still very romantic. Xander still proposed to me. I still enjoyed getting the ring, but I have a ring that I love. Okay, but going back to the question, I do not think it's too honest to tell your partner you don't like your engagement ring. I do think the delivery of it really matters. And so this person didn't tell us exactly how they said it, other than just like, I. Well, no, they said, I told them it was fine, but not what I would have picked. I don't think that sounds brutal or anything like that. And I do think again with an engagement ring, because it's something that you are gonna wear every day for the rest of your life. Like, you should have something that you like. Like, you shouldn't have to look down at your hand and think, like, it's fine, but it's not what I would have picked. So I think it's okay to share with your partner. I probably would have been a little bit gentler than this person. I would have. I wouldn't have said it the day that you proposed. I don't know if exactly when the timing was that they said it, but I would have said something like, I love that you picked this ring for me. I love the thought that went behind it. I love that we are now engaged. It's not exactly my style, though. And I know that we're gonna be together for the rest of our lives, and I wanna look down at this ring and be able to, like, see something that I really and truly love. So would you be open to us, like, choosing. Going in together and choosing something different together. And you could even say to your partner, like, I can't imagine how hard that must have been to choose and to not know, like, exactly what I would have liked and not have my help there. Like, that would have been really hard. If I was in your place. I don't think I would have chosen the exact perfect, magical ring, you know, so you can really, like, soften it and normalize it that way. But I think, like, yeah, at the end of the day, you deserve to have a ring that you really love. So I think sharing that, that is something that. That you could share.

Yeah. I'm gonna say I think this person wasn't honest enough. They weren't. They. Because they were not honest enough upfront with their partner about. They didn't. They weren't honest enough to set them up for Success. It doesn't sound like, in terms of. These are the type. You know, like, these are the type of cuts that I like. These are. Here's some pictures of types of rings that I like. It sounds like this partner was unprepared. Then again, the person does at the end say, I had the expectation that it was something that I want to separately would be thought of. So if I'm going to give the person asking this question the benefit of the doubt, if they feel like they did share sufficient information with their partner and their partner just disregarded it, then, yeah, the discussion that you just suggested around, like, hey, this isn't like, this doesn't really look like the things that I was showing you. And, you know, I'm, you know, a little bummed that it feels like maybe you didn't really listen to what I said. And, you know, I would love for us to go in together and get something that's gonna. That's gonna be, like, I'm gonna feel really great about for the rest of my life.

I think the end of this poses a really interesting question. Like, is an engagement ring just for the person wearing it? Like, should their. And only their preferences be taken into account? Because it sounds like the person who wrote this felt like, yeah, this is supposed to be my engagement ring for me. And their partner was thinking of it. He was thinking of it as, like, it's our ring. And, like, I like this style, and so my preferences matter too.

This sounds like a great conversation to have when you get in or before you get engaged.

Well, but what do you think? Like, my engagement ring. Is that my engagement ring, or is that our engagement ring?

I guess I think of it as your engagement ring. I mean, I don't have an engagement ring.

Do you want one?

You never gave me one.

Do you want me to propose to you?

Yeah, that would be cute.

Would you wear two rings stacked on top of each other?

No, I'd probably wear it. On the other hand.

Oh, you want me to propose?

If you got me a ring, I'd wear it.

Really? Yeah.

Okay. I like my wedding ring.

Okay. All right. A little proposal 12 years later or 14 years later. Okay. I think that an engagement ring belongs to the person who's going to be wearing it. And I do. I do think that they're only. Their preferences should be taken into account.

Yeah. Because, like, I mean, technically, if you were to break up, like, it's not like you're like, all right, when we break up, we're going back to the ring. We're gonna go pawn this baby and split the process.

That's another hot topic. It's like, yeah, do you have to give the ring back, or is it. Was it a gift? Gift to you? Do you own it? But yeah, I think that, like, because it's something that's worn on your body, I think you should get to have the final say in it. And it's like, it's your ring. Your. Like, your preferences should be taken into consideration. The budget should be something joint. It shouldn't be like, you know, it's like, what can we afford together as a couple? But, yeah, as opposed to, like, you know, the wedding. It's like, yeah, that. That's supposed to be us together, both of our preferences. But something that I'm wearing on my body, like, I want it to be my choice.

Yeah. I mean, I'm just thinking about when we were, you know, wedding band shopping. Like, I don't think we were ever in a situation where I was like, I love this one for me, and you were like, I hate it. Yeah. But, you know, if. Maybe if we were in that situation, I might take that into consideration of, oh, maybe. Maybe it would be a good idea for me to find one that I like that she touched hate.

For example, I don't love your wedding band. And I told you that when we picked it out, there was a different style that I liked better. And you were like, no, I like this one. I remember, good for me, having that conversation. And I was like, yeah, okay, cool. It's your ring. You're wearing it on your hand.

Yeah. I mean, it is so personal to you. You wear it every day. You see it constantly. I play with it constantly. So, yeah, I'm happy with my wedding band. Good.

I hope you're just as happy with your engagement ring that I'm gonna magically find the exact right thing for you.

I can't wait. Let's hold her accountable to this pod friends.

Okay, here's the next one. I told my boyfriend I have to be honest about something because it is affecting our sex life. I have been less attracted to you recently because you have gained a lot of weight. It had been making me not want to have sex, and I felt mean saying it, but I'm just not attracted to overweight people. He used to keep himself in really good shape, and he just doesn't anymore. I felt bad saying it, and I didn't want to be mean. He said, I know I've gained weight, but it's hard to eat healthy and get to the Gym. With how busy my job is lately, I'll get back to it when work chills out. But he said this before, and I'm growing less and less attracted to him physically. I'm not sure if I should be more harsh. So he understands how much it's hurting our sex life to the point where I'm closing my eyes, pretending he's another man fan.

Oh, there's. There's a lot of honesty there that.

Xander, is this too honest?

All right, I'm just gonna say yes. I think this person, what they said, what they said and the way they said it, definitely too honest. And also the things that they're keeping in their back pocket about how they could be more harsh, that. That is too honest in a really hurtful and cruel way.

Yeah, this is one of the worst ones to me. I think this is just outright cruel to be saying it in this way and to be thinking about, like, being even harsher to your partner. Like, this is really unacceptable way to treat your partner, in my opinion. So let's get into, like, I think you and I are both in agreement that, like, the way this person said it and what they're thinking is just messed up. I also want to call out in particular, saying, like, I'm just not attracted to overweight people. This reeks of fatphobia to me. I think this person, like, has some serious personal work that they need to do and some inner exploration to explore their fat phobia, where that comes from, why it's so strong for them. So I want to call that out, too, and I want to talk about the gray area here about, like, noticing your attraction to your partner shift. So, like I said, I do think that this question just reeks of fatphobia. And I think the more useful way for us to look at this, rather than, like, my partner gained weight, and now I'm not attracted to them anymore. The more useful thing for us to look at is the way your partner is treating themselves. So it sounds like in this situation, and he's acknowledging this, you know, that he's.

Which is great. That there's a great way into this conversation here.

Yeah. Like, he's acknowledging, like, I'm having a hard time eating healthy. I'm having a hard time getting this. The gym. I've been really stressed out. I've been really busy. And so I think being able to talk to your partner, like, if you see your partner not taking care of themselves in the way that they used to. And I also want to be fucking careful here, because it's like we don't, it's not like we're signing a contract saying like, I promise you that I'm going to go to the gym six days a week for the rest of my life and only ever eat like low carb or whatever bullshit diet people are doing. Like we're allowed to have bodies that change and we're allowed to go through tough times and have ebbs and flows in our self care and our own relationship with our bodies and how we're taking care of ourselves, all of those things. So I don't want to set this level of perfection and unchanging is the standard. And I also want to be realistic that yeah, if you were to tomorrow sink into a depressive episode and stop taking care of yourself and not keep up your hygiene and all kinds of stuff like, of course my attraction to you is going to be affected by that. But I think it's just like to me, I want to encourage people to see the humanity in our partner and to see like the ways that they're struggling to take care of themselves rather than just the like, oh, he's gained 20 pounds and I don't like overweight people.

Yeah. So like instead of focusing on the attraction, like, like dude, I'm not attracted to you anymore, get to the gym. Like instead of focusing on the attraction, I mean really the honest and caring thing to do is focus on the, like, like the attraction is a symptom of the issue. Like focus on the actual, like the root cause of the issue. It sounds like this person is really struggling. They're super busy and they're, they don't have time to eat healthy. So how could you talk about, how could I support you? How could I better support you in. Are there things that I could do to help you to remind you to eat healthier? Because it sounds like this person wants to eat healthier even. How could I support, could I help prepare lunch? Could I get healthier snacks at the store? Or hey, on the weekend, let's go. How about we go on a hike together or we go to the gym, we do something physical together. I think there are a lot of ways that you could be supportive and even talk about like, hey, it's, it's hard to see how hard you're working right now. I see you're running. It's, I can see how ragged you're running yourself. And I want to, you know.

Yeah, I would focus more on the emotion of it rather than the fucking like healthy snacks or going to the gym kind of stuff. It's just like, like, how is this partner. How is this boyfriend, like, actually doing it? Sounds like he's in a really tough place in his life. And this is exactly what I mean about, like, seeing our partner's humanity. Like, who gives a fuck about your attraction if your partner is, like, really struggling with something? Like, to me, that just feels really selfish to be so fixated on your partner's physical appearance.

Yeah, it's like a transactional. It's like a transactional. Yeah.

Rather than, like, the human being who sounds like he's struggling and, like, we've heard this from other, you know, even more extreme examples of this. Of, like. Like, you know, I don't know what his mental health status is exactly. Like, but, you know, we've. We've heard from other people where it's like, yeah, my partner sunk into a depressive episode, and it's like, that matters more. That matters more than, like, the attractiveness and, like, yes, you know, you're human. You're attracted. Your attraction to your partner is going to be affected. That's okay. But it's just, like, I think we need to focus more on the emotions and the actual experience that our partner is having rather than just going in for, like, like, I need you to go to the gym and lose weight. Like, that's just. It's just. There's no compassion here.

Yeah. All right, we're on to our last one. Vanessa. My now husband told me when we were dating that I wasn't his type and he wasn't attracted to me at first. He then described his typical type. To be fair, I asked at that point, which is nothing like me. We were set up on a blind date and had never seen each other before. So, sure, there is some element of surprise involved, but his telling me made me super insecure. We were married now and have two kids, and I still think about it.

Too honest. Yeah.

Too honest? Yeah. Like what? Yeah, What? Good. What were you hoping to achieve?

No. Okay. I will put myself into the brain of this husband, and I think in a very boneheaded way, what he was trying to say is, you're so beautiful and unique and special that I was attracted to you despite you not being my usual type, though.

This is like. This is. This is, like, from the last season of Love is Blind. The. The. The guy that was, like, thinking that he was trying to tell his. His partner that, like, he likes her better without makeup. The whole makeup thing. Oh, my God, what a disaster.

Yeah. This was the absolute wrong way to Give your partner a compliment. Like, I really do think that he was probably trying to give her a compliment.

Or he might have. He might have been trying to say. He might have been trying to be, like, a little, like, self deprecating, a bit of, like, oh, man. Like, I used to have such a. Such a type. And like, I never. I never pictured myself with somebody that wasn't outside this very specific type that you obviously are not anything like. But once I met you on that blind date, like, then I, you know, I became so attracted to you. You know, I think it's fine to be like, oh, at first, I kind of was thrown for a loop because up until then, I had only dated people that looked this one way. I never considered that I might date someone else.

I also just side note, but I think having a type is so stupid.

Yeah, I. I agree.

I just. I guess it's because I don't have one. I mean, if you lined up all the people I've dated all together, it would make no sense.

If you lined up all the people. Almost all the people I've dated or, like, all the people I've been in relationships with, you would notice one striking trend.

Height.

Height.

Xander's got a short fetish.

But here's the funny thing is that I don't actually feel like I don't identify with, like, oh, I'm attracted to short women.

You kind of do.

What do you mean? But I'm not like, oh, yeah, she's so short.

No, you get pretty into how short I am. You're like, oh, you're so, so little. Well, it's just. It's a striking shiny.

It's quite striking sometimes, like, when I can't kiss you, you're.

You got a little bit of a thing for it. Okay. But going back to this. Yeah. Like, there's no reason to, like, don't ever tell somebody you're not my type. If you're actually trying to, like, give them a compliment and tell them you're attracted to them. Like, it's just. It's just not a good way to say it. Just say to them, like, you're so attractive. I've never met anybody like you. Like, you're. You're so unique. Anything like is fine, but, like, yeah, don't say. Don't bring in the type.

Yeah, but also it's like the way it's written, too. It's like, if you weren't attracted to someone at first, but then you are attracted to them, who the fuck cares that you weren't attracted at first. Like, you are now. Like, the important thing is that you are attractive now, so.

Oh, wait, though. I'm just going back and rereading this, and I'm realizing I missed this one. That he actually said he wasn't attracted to me at first. Okay, I totally missed that. I thought that he was just saying, you're not my normal type.

Oh, no.

Okay, this makes it even worse. Oh, my God.

No, I was trying to be real kind to him and be like, oh, my God. Oh, my God. He was trying to be like, no.

Do not ever tell your partner you weren't attracted to them at first.

That's.

That's just mean. That's so mean.

Not cool.

Oh, my God. This is way worse than I thought it was. I can't believe I somehow skipped over that very important part. Yeah, yeah. This is terrible. Don't tell them that. Even if it was just like, like, you weren't my type, like, not my typical type, that in and of itself is just not valuable to tell your partner, but to tell your partner that you weren't attracted to them is just mean, unnecessary. What the fuck were you hoping for? What kind of reaction did you think you were gonna have? Like, that's just straight up boneheaded.

And, I mean, I think that, yeah, that that is messed up that they. That your partner said that to you. And I totally get that. You know, whatever. Marriage and two kids later, you're still thinking about it. I think that this is a. Like, if you're finding yourself not getting over that, which is totally understandable. Like, I think that it could be really valuable to go to at least a couple sessions of couples therapy to just talk this through, because it sounds like, you know, he may not understand the impact. The true impact of that, and there may be some more repair that can be done. I'm not. I can't promise you that, like, you're gonna forget that it happened, but I think. Think this is a sign that there's a little more work to do on this.

All right, well, that wraps up our hot takes on how Honest Is. Too honest. Please let us know if you liked this episode because we have a ton of other stories that we got that we are not, you know, kind of ran out of time to cover. So let us know if you like this. If you want us to do another one, come over to Instagram. We're at Vanessa and Xander. Let us know what you think. And we want to share some very exciting news with you. We are coming up on that crazy Time of the year, Black Friday, Cyber Monday. And we have some super fun things that we are doing. So we decided on Black Friday we are going to release.

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Sam.