EPISODE 141: How To Get Your Partner To Be More Romantic

There's so many different ways that you could want something. I think romance is another one of these real blanket or umbrella terms that unfortunately end up being not, like, less helpful than they are helpful because they're so broad. They could mean so many different things.

Yeah.

And that's why we got to start figuring out what exactly we are looking for.

Hello and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Xander Marin. I'm a sex therapist with over 20 years of experience.

And I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.

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What is it? Candy?

No.

Presents?

No.

I don't know. Fear, Shame? Guilt?

I was about to cut. I was like, this is too awkward. But fear, shame and guilt. Yeah, let's go with that.

Mortal fear.

Fear?

No.

Romance. We are all thinking about romance.

Oh, of course.

Like, he didn't know what to do.

I thought that was today.

Yes, we are all thinking about romance around Valentine's Day. Like I said, even if you hate Valentine's Day and you never celebrate it, like, it's still such a cultural phenomenon that you can't help but think about romance. Around this time of the year, we polled our audience and we found that 79% of you want your partner to be more romantic. So today we are doing a special episode that will give you all the tools, tips, techniques, and tricks you need to get your partner to be more romantic. And all throughout the year, not just on this one Hallmark Day.

Yeah, I think that's really important because it's so easy to get in our heads, like, okay, it's Valentine's Day. I gotta do my. My romantic Valentine's Day thing. I gotta give my gesture and then somehow, like, I'm done for the year. I think so many of us get into that. And so maybe we go all out or we just try to figure out, like, what's the minimum I need to do and I don't need to think about it. But we're gonna talk about how to actually make romance doable year round. But first, we are gonna give you our review of the week. Best Relationship Advice podcast. If there were a better relationship advice podcast out there, I would be very surprised. Notice I said relationship advice rather than just sex advice. Vanessa and Xander certainly offer sex advice, but they beautifully use sex as a doorway into all the dynamics of a good, loving, fulfilling partnership. My wife and I both love the podcast and their book, the Best Advice on Sexual Relating I've ever read. Wow. And the conversation sparked by the podcast have enriched us greatly. So many thanks for this heroic work.

Oh, my God, that's so nice.

Yeah. You know what? We are Valentine's Day heroes this year.

Wow. Thank you so much for this beautiful, beautiful review. So if you've never heard us talk about reviews, this is not just to make us feel good, although this one made me feel very good. Reviews are actually the best way to help the POD podcast grow. I had no clue about this. Before we started a podcast, I would hear people ask their audience to leave reviews all the time and just think like, okay, whatever. Now that I have one, I understand it truly is the best way for the podcast to get in front of new people. And that's ultimately what we're here to do, to help serve as many people as we can, give as much relationship advice to as many relationships as we can. So these reviews help us out so much. So we would be so grateful if you could take steps. 60 seconds to leave a review. Go over to the main Pillow Talks podcast page on Apple Podcasts. Scroll down to the bottom and you'll find the section to leave a review. And once you do that, you are entered into our weekly giveaway every week going forward just automatically entered. So if you hear your review read on the podcast, you can email us@infomtherapy.com and you will get to choose one of our masterclasses as your prize. So just our little way of saying thank you. But if you're not on Apple Podcasts, you can also just follow or leave a star rating for the podcast that also really, really helps us. And that takes literally a split second to do like you can from where you're listening to right now. You can navigate to our page and just hit that little five star hit the Follow button. It genuinely makes a huge difference.

Smash it.

Okay, so let's talk about romance. And I want to start at the beginning of the relationship because I think most of does start out feeling like there's a lot of romance in those early stages of a relationship.

Or at least there's. Or the very least there's some.

I think it really feels like part of the chase of the relationship. Like you have to win your partner over. You're putting on your best foot for each other, and it like, you're not.

Putting on your best foot. What does that even mean, putting on your best foot?

Like you're. You're doing your best.

You're starting on the right foot.

Putting on your best foot.

You picked up. You picked up your foot. Pick. Pick a foot out of the closet. Put it on. You're ready for the day.

What is this saying?

Strap that foot on, baby.

What is the set you put?

We've been through this so many times. To all of you listening, this is one of Vanessa's major, major mix ups is the putting. Putting on your right foot. Start. It's like, put.

No, put your best foot forward.

Yeah, put your best foot forward. You. Some people say start on the right foot. I think I may have. That may not even be a phrase, and you've just said it so many times that you've tricked me into thinking that that's normal.

Okay, okay, I'm sorry. I. That really got me. Like, I usually when I mix them up, I know that I've mixed it up. Or I'll ask. That one just totally got me. I was like, what are you. What are you giving me a hard time about? What did you best put on?

I just have. I just have such a funny image of you, like, going through the closet, picking. Going through, like 10 different feet.

Choosing my best one.

Your best looking one. You know, you got to be well dressed for Valentine's Day. I mean, hell, I wore. I wore my most sexy Valentine's Day T shirt, not T shirt, button up shirt that I have.

I was curious about that. Xander's like, what do I wear? I wear the same thing every week. I'm like, it doesn't really matter. But I just jokingly said, wear your best Valentine's Day shirt. And so that. That's your best Valentine's Day shirt.

It's kind of blue, purple, blue, purple, blue and purple. I think it's cool.

Okay, so back to the episode, though.

I'm trying to woo. I'm trying to woo you with this shirt.

You're trying to woo me in blue.

Yeah.

So I think in the early stages of a relationship, like, everything just has that tinge of romance to it. Like, even the most mundane things that you do with each other, like, everything just feels romant. So we actually asked our audience, was your partner more romantic at the beginning of your relationship as compared to now? 56% of you said yes. 39% said about the same, which is interesting, since the vast majority of people want more romance. Oh, yeah, it sounds like we wanted more even at the beginning, too. And only 5% said that they are now more romantic than they were at the beginning of their relationship.

So there's a lot of room for people to get into that category. That would be a great category for almost everyone to get into. 95% of people could get into that category. Hell, yeah.

So the typical pattern for most people is it feels like there's more romance at the beginning of the relationship, and then it tapers off. And I think, like, societally, we really romanticize the beginning of a relationship, but if you think about it, we don't romanticize anything after marriage. Like, TV shows, movies. It's all about getting that commitment, getting engaged, getting married. But after that, then relationships shift from being, like, so romantic and exciting into, like, okay, yeah, no romantic left about this now.

Yeah, it's like, okay, you're going to have kids. A relationship is sort of like, you know, you've already won. Everyone's won everyone over. You've dealt with your issues. It's like, smooth sailing.

And so here I want to talk a little bit about the male perspective of romance, because when we put question boxes up on Instagram, overwhelmingly it was women in male, female relationships saying, I want my man to be more romantic. And if you think again about how we see romance play out on TV and in the movies, it's always about the guy. Like, the guy is the one being romantic, doing the grand gestures. It's like there's the expectation that he's supposed to sweep the woman off of her feet, win her over. And so I think it's important for us to, like, talk a little bit about what it feels like to be a man feeling this pressure to be romantic and maybe struggling to sustain it.

Yeah, it's an interesting dynamic. I think, that it's so easy for shame and embarrassment to come up over.

So you were right in your intro for your shame and embarrassment.

I was. I was. But I think it's that, you know, guys see from movies, from tv, from books, from the way people Talk about romance. From the way people talk about relationships, guys see, oh, yeah, this is what is expected of me. This is how it is supposed to look. This is what I see, you know, female friends, like, you know, calling out as like, goods. Like, oh, yeah, I went on a date with this guy and it was, oh, he swept me off my feet. It was so romantic. We have all these ideas about what it is that we are supposed to do. And then there's this cognitive dissonance of, well, God, all these things don't seem to come very easily to me or don't come very naturally to me. Maybe they don't feel particularly authentic to me, but that is what is expected of me. And so, you know, I think that, yeah, like you said, we get into the beginning of relationships and maybe it comes a little more naturally in that. At the beginning of a relationship.

Wait, I have a plan. I have a question to ask you. Do you remember when we started dating? Do you remember being romantic?

No, I don't, but I do remember. I do remember planning dates. I do remember making a lot of time for us to hang out. And I remember wanting to do a lot of nice things for you. I was really into you. You know, I wanted to cook for you, I wanted to take you out, I wanted to do new things with you.

But yet that doesn't feel like romance to you.

I guess not. But I guess what this really gets at, and I think that we are probably going to. We were going to talk about this later in the episode too, but what I think it gets at is that guys or. And this could be anyone, but I think guys especially see so many examples of this is what a romantic man does. This is what it looks like. And if you don't immediately identify with that, then you kind of like other it. You're like, you're like, okay, well, that's not really me. I don't want to be showing up super inauthentic, like, especially at the beginning of a relationship. Like, that doesn't feel good.

When you hear the word romance, what are the associations that come to mind?

I mean, I think the stuff that immediately comes to mind feels to me super cheesy. Really cheesy. Over the top, contrived, like overly planned out, like overly scripted.

Almost like, what if I had told you at the beginning of our relationship, like, I want you to take me on a romantic date or like I want you to do something romantic? What would you have thought I meant?

Oh, I. I guess I would have thought, okay, well, it, It Must be more than, like, just taking you out, just saying nice things to you, just, you know, having a plan. Like, oh, maybe we're doing something after dinner. Probably even. I mean, I guess I would think, oh, well, what does she want me to get her? Like, flowers or something?

Okay. Like, okay, well, let's put a pin in this. We're definitely going to come back to this topic in a few minutes. But we asked the men in our community, why are you not more romantic? And what could your partner do to help you be more romantic? And the answers that we got back were fascinating. Like, I know we usually call on Xander to be the voice for all men, but I wanted to have some other perspectives as well.

Great. Thank you. I appreciate not having to be the only voice of men here.

So, by far and away, the number one response that we got from men, which very much echoes what you were just trying to describe right now.

Hey, I was right.

Yeah. You're like, men said, I don't know what it means, or, like, I don't know what my partner wants. So one guy said, I feel bad that I don't do more, but I genuinely don't know how. So it's just this sense of bewilderment. And, like, I could really hear that bewilderment in your voice. Like, I almost felt bad putting you on the spot with some of these questions because you're like, it's just like, they don't know what this means.

Yeah. Yeah. Like, yeah, you don't know what it means. And it kind of just brings up this immediate gut reaction in you of almost, like, kind of wanting to push away from it. Also, a lot of guys said they don't like that they're the only ones who are expected to be romantic, because I think the reality is that a lot of guys, they want to experience some romance, too. Especially if it feels like, you know, being a bit vulnerable and doing something that's maybe out of your character and not coming naturally. It's so helpful when it's like, hey, we're both pushing ourselves to do something that is a little out of our character, coming unnaturally, kind of like, this reminds me of, like, initiating sex in a way. It's like, nobody loves being like, oh, yeah. Like, I love putting myself out there. I love knowing that my partner might say no and turn me down. So, you know, that's why we always say it's great for both partners to be doing it, not necessarily equally, but both doing it in some fashion.

These next two responses really fascinated me. So a ton of men said, my partner has rejected my romantic gestures in the past.

Oh, this is, again, very much like initiation. We hear this so often with initiating sex.

Yeah. So one guy wrote, all I get are complaints and negativity when I try. Another man wrote, try to hold space for my attempts at romance. We're teammates in this together, not enemies. Like, enemies. What a strong word that that guy genuinely feels like I'm trying to be romantic. I'm trying to figure out what to do. But, like, she sees me as her enemy in this. Like, the feeling of rejection just came up so strongly. I was really surprised. And then another answer that I found very interesting was, my partner doesn't seem to appreciate it. So one guy wrote, please show some appreciation when I do things. Instead, I'm made to feel like it's never enough. So just like. Yeah. All this vulnerability that men are feeling, like I'm feeling rejected. I'm feeling, like, unseen, unappreciated. It's no wonder that they don't want to be more romantic. And they feel like they're not being met with even, like, basic kindness and compassion when they try.

Yeah. And, I mean, speaking of basic kindness and compassion, another person said they want to actually have open conversations about it. This guy says, my wife refuses to talk about it. So it's like, not only are you feeling kind of unseen in your attempts, but it's like. It's like, you know, your partner's almost pretending that it's not. Not a thing. Like, not even validating that this is something to you. They don't even want to talk about it. And then finally, this is something that we hear a lot in. That applies to a lot of different things in relationships. But a lot of guys said that their partner always assumes that they're just doing it for sex. Oh.

Which is just like another. Just knife to the heart kind of feeling of like, I'm trying to put myself out there and be vulnerable. Maybe I have been rejected or made fun of in the past, but, like, I'm still trying to do it. And then my partner just sees it as you're just wanting to get laid.

Yeah. Especially if your partner is talking about how they want more of it, and then you feel like you're doing it, and they're like, oh, well, but not like that. Like, you just want sex.

Yeah.

Like, that's just. That's just an impossible position. When it's like, I want you to do this. Whether that's explicit or kind of implicit, I want you to do this. Then you do, you know, give it your best shot. And then it's like, no, that's not enough. No, you didn't do it right. No, you really just want something else. Like, I just be throwing my hands up at that point.

Yeah. Refusing to do it. So that's about men doing the romance. When it comes to receiving the romance, this is also something that I think a lot of men struggle with, too. Like, even though a lot of men said, like, hey, I want it as well, I think one of the big challenges that comes up for men is that romance can overlap so much with emotional intimacy. And men are absolutely socialized that they're not supposed to be in tune with their emotions. They're not supposed to have emotions or express emotions. And so I think a lot of men, you know, it's one thing to, like, say in a little anonymous question box, like, I want to feel some romance, too, but I think it's another to actually express it to your partner. I think most women would be shocked to know that their partner wants to feel more romance, too. So I, like. I want to ask you, Xander, do you want more romance in our relationship?

I don't.

You don't? We'll stop the episode right now. We're done.

I don't.

But.

And. And the reason. The reason that I. The reason that I say that.

Because I didn't put my best foot on.

Yeah, it's because you're not wearing your best foot. I mean. Yeah, that. That's. That's the truth. If you would pick the other foot today, maybe I would. But. But for real, I really agree with you that there is this huge overlap of romance and emotional intimacy, and we're going to get into this more about, like, getting clear on what romance means to you. I feel like for us, I think we have a pretty good understanding of each other, of what it is that we like and what kind of energy we are looking for when it comes to sex and romance and excitement and all that stuff. I feel like my cup is pretty full. I think you and I both have a lot of just playful, fun energy in our relationship, and I love that. I feel so fulfilled by that.

So you don't want more because you feel like we have enough?

Yes, I feel like we have a really great amount of it. And I like, you know, I think, you know, we both plan doing things for each other. We both, you know, and I. And I really love that it doesn't feel like something where only I'm supposed to be doing it or only you're supposed to be doing it. What about you?

I feel the same. Yeah. I don't find myself wanting more or, like, thinking we don't have enough. There are some times, though, that, like, a little thought creeps into the back of my head that I will share in a minute, but I want to wait until we get in there. But in general, no, I think that we have good romance in our relationship, and I'm happy with it.

Oh, great.

So let's start to talk about how to encourage your partner to be more romantic. The first place we're going to start is with yourself. If you've been listening to the podcast for a while, you know, we almost always start with, like, turning inwards. And I think it's really important for all of us to confront the toxic beliefs about romance that we have.

And we all have plenty.

Yeah. And a lot of this is from the media, from movies, from tv, even, like, books, you know, just these really over the top portrayals of romance. So one example is that romance is something that only men do for women. We've talked about this one already. Another one is this idea that you shouldn't have to ask for what you want or need. Like, you shouldn't have to ask your partner to be romantic. They should just be. Be romantic. We're gonna break this one down in so much more detail in a moment. And then the third one that we wanted to talk about up top here is something that we've been seeing a lot on social media the last year or two. This idea. If he wanted to, he would. So a lot of women are saying, like, oh, yeah, like, well, if men really wanted to be romantic, they would just do it. It's not that hard. Like, they would just take that initiative on their own. And I think that that's actually a very toxic belief about not just romance, but relationships in general.

I mean, if that were true, like, what we would all be. We. We would all be, like, the best, the very best at our own hobbies. We would all be everything. We'd all be super rich. We'd all be doing exactly what we wanted at every, you know, moment of the day. So I don't think that one really works.

So these beliefs that so many of us have, they lead us straight into one of the main tips that we really wanted to talk about in this episode, which is that if you want more romance in your relationship, you first need to start by getting really clear about what the heck it is that you truly want. Because that phrase, like, oh, I want more Romance. What does that mean? Like, it's just so generic. Like, it doesn't really mean anything.

It's kind of like if I was like, I want you to do better, Vanessa. Or like, you know, at work, if your boss is like, I need you to do a better job.

Yeah. You're like, okay, but what and how? And I think with romance in particular, like, there's this way that we can feel the desire for more without fully understanding what that even means for us. And this is sort of what I was alluding to earlier when you asked me if I want more romance. Like, I don't actively think, like, I want more romance in our relationship. I wish they ended more romantic things. But, like, there are some times that I sort of catch myself feeling like, oh, should. Should there be more romance? And when I stop and I think, think about, like, well, what does that actually mean? What do I actually want? I can't think of anything. But what I think is actually happening in those moments is it's sort of like the toxic societal beliefs creeping in of like, oh, it just kind of was another average day. I didn't get swept off my feet today. I didn't get some grand romantic gesture, like, what's going on?

Yeah. I mean, it's interesting the way you said that of like, oh, should I be wanting more of this? And I feel like often, if that's the thought that comes to you, should I want more of this? Should they be doing more of that? Should I be doing this or that? Very often that's not actually coming from a want or a need. Yeah, that's like, that's coming from somewhere external. You see something that triggers a thought in you of, oh, well, should I be more like that? Or should our relationship be more like that?

Or like a social media post? Yeah, like, that's. That's when it comes up for me these days.

Yeah. Versus. Yeah. Versus seeing. Seeing a post. You could have two very different reactions to a post about something. There could be like, oh, should we be doing more of that? Or it could be like, oh, that looks really like, I want that. I want that feeling that looks nice. Like, I want to do that thing. And that's very different from, oh, should I? Should we be doing that?

Yeah. So that's what we want to encourage you to do, is to think about the feelings. What are the feelings that Rol. Romance creates for you? What are the feelings that you're wanting to experience? Because romance has a million different tones to it, and we all have different experiences of, like, what is romantic? What isn't romantic? Like, what is it that we're actually wanting? And I think, like, most of us have never taken the time to really feel into. Like, what does romance mean? What is it that we're looking for? What do we want to experience when we are wanting romance? And that can make it so much easier for everything to just feel, like, wrong or off. I think most people have had the experience, maybe most women have had the experience of, like, your partner does something for you that maybe is supposed to be romantic. Like, on the surface, it seems really romantic. If you made a little social post out of it, you get a bunch of comments from your girlfriends being like, oh, my God, he's so romantic. But there's just that feeling of, like. Like, I don't really like that. It's not. It doesn't feel good to me. So let's give you some examples of, like, what are the feelings that romance could create? So maybe it's, you want to feel desired. Maybe you want to feel considered, like your partner was really thinking of you. Maybe you want to feel taken care of or special, trusted, intimate or playful was the word that Xander threw out. Like, that's really the tone that romance takes on for us in our relationship.

And I think it's so helpful to start thinking about this because this is really drilling down on what is the most meaningful to you. I mean, it's. It's kind of like, why stuff like love languages or the initiation styles or our sex personality types make a lot of sense. Because it's like, yeah, okay, you want sex like most people want sex, but it's like, how do you want it? There's so many different ways that you could want something. I think romance is another one of these real blanket or umbrella terms that unfortunately end up being not, like, less helpful than they are helpful because they're so broad. They could mean so many different things.

Yeah.

And that's why we got to start figuring out what exactly we are looking for.

Yeah, It's. It's the feelings that are ultimately the most important. So.

Yeah. Because romance is not a feeling.

Yeah.

To be super clear, I think a lot of people do get confused of, I want to feel more romance.

Romance is not a feeling.

It's not a feeling. It's not an emotion. Like, it is. It could be a word to describe a lot of different feelings that different people could have, but it in and of itself is not a feeling or an emotion.

Yeah. Like, I have a great example here. So I think one of the Classic things that people think of when they think of romance is jewelry. Right. Definitely not a feeling getting a piece of jewelry. So for some people, that's going to feel very romantic. But it's probably because of one of the, like, different feeling words that we mentioned earlier. Like, oh, my partner heard me talk about wanting a necklace or my partner saw that I was looking at this specific necklace and they got it for me.

Oh, yeah. So it's like you felt considered or special.

Yes. Versus other people jewelry is not going to feel romantic to them at all. It's like, I don't, I don't like this, I don't want this. Why did you get this from me? Or even like, the way that your partner gives you a piece of jewelry can have totally different tones to it too. Like, they could share it in a way that does feel like, I really was thinking about you and I've been saving up for this. Or I thought you would like this for this reason. Versus oh yeah, I just saw this in the store and grabbed it for you on the way home.

Yeah. Or I just went into the store and got the most expensive thing.

Yeah. The same action can have very different emotional tones to it. So start with the emotions. Then the next thing that we want you to consider from there is what are the specific things you want your partner to do that will give you that emotional experience that you're wanting?

So I know this one can be a little challenging. Like, this can feel open ended. So here's a couple ideas of questions that you could ask to start drilling down on what are the things that you want your partner to do? So you could ask yourself, okay, how did my partner originally win me over? Or what are some of my favorite romantic things that my partner has done for me? And I think it's really helpful to go back and think through the early stages of your relationship. Like, what stuff felt particularly meaningful to you and what stuff maybe didn't feel as meaningful that can really help you get in, get to like, okay, well, if I were to ask them to do more of these types of things and maybe not these other types of things, that would be particularly meaningful for me. Now another thing you could ask yourself is, what's something that everyone else thinks is romantic but you don't find particularly romantic? So this is kind of taking the opposite approach of like, okay, if we start with what are the common things? Which of these don't really work for me? And that can help you kind of narrow down what are the things that really do? And then finally, you could think about what's something that everyone else doesn't think is particularly romantic, but you do or you find particularly meaningful. And I think that's kind of like. That's like the ideal gold right there. That's. That's the ideal scenario is that if you can think of what are the things that are less commonly thought of as romantic or maybe less like stereotypically romantic, but really are super meaningful to me, like, that's going to be the most important thing for your partner to know, and that's going to be most important for you to know, because it's like, hey, this is my little cheat code. If we do these things that are kind of easy and not commonly thought of, then that's gonna move the needle so much.

So if you're still struggling, don't worry. We have a huge list of specific examples to help you narrow down the things that are the most meaningful to you. So we turn to our Instagram community, and by the way, if you're not following us at Vanessa and Xander, Xander with an X, definitely make sure you do, because we do all these fun polls over there to help us with the episodes. So we turned to our Instagram community and we said, what's specific romantic things do you want your partner to do? So we have a little. This is kind of like an Easter egg within the episode here. So here's what we suggest you do with this list. First of all, I think just listening to this entire episode with your partner would be great. Like a great conversation opener, a great way to help you guys get on the same team, get on the same page about romance, get on the same foot. Get on the same foot, Grab the.

Same foot and try to put it on both of your feet. Feet or legs? I guess you wouldn't put a foot on a foot, but maybe on your ankle.

Okay, but if you don't want to listen to the whole episode with them, or maybe you're still feeling a little bit nervous right now, one little sneaky thing to do is play this part of the episode out loud near your partner. It'll give them some ideas. Or you could also play this part and, like, go through together and you say, like, okay, there's this list of, like, the most common romantic things. Like, let's say yes or no. Like, we like these ones or we don't like these one. So just use this list as a way to inspire your partner and get that conversation started. So here were the most common answers that came up when we asked people what specific Romantic things do you want your partner to do. Plan date nights without being asked to show affection. Send me texts about how excited you are to see me. Or even something simple like just thinking about you right now and wanted to let you know.

Say nice things to me or give me an unexpected compliment.

Spend quality time with me.

Bring me breakfast in bed.

Take an interest in the things that are important to me.

Talk about your feelings for me.

Hold my hand in an unexpected moment.

Surprise me when I'm out of the house by doing my least favorite chores for me.

Slow dance with me.

Leave hidden notes for me around the house.

Be present in the moment.

Hold me without the intention of it leading to sex.

Buy me flowers.

Randomly pick up my favorite little treat at the store.

Okay, so see, this list is such a great example of what we mean about how romance is different for everybody. Like, how varied are these things? Like somebody saying, yeah, doing my favorite chores, that feels super romantic, right? Versus like, buy me a present. You know, like there's just, there's a little bit of something for everybody.

Yeah, I was, I was going to call that one out specifically as like, you know, some of these are more stereotypically romantic. I don't know, maybe like slow dance flowers or. Yeah, flowers versus like doing some chores.

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Our first tip is a really short but Very important one. And that's don't compare.

Next tip, don't ask your partner to be more romantic. Like, this word has become very loaded. Like we've already said before, like it's just open ended, it's not very useful. Like if you just tell your partner, like, be more romantic or like I want you to be more romantic, they're just not going to know what that means, right? So don't use that phrase anymore.

Also, do not compare when it comes to romance. Like Susie's husband did. Xyz. Like, I think this is such a common one of like, oh, you know, you're out with your friends, you hear something that your friend's partner did for them and you're like, oh my God, that's so romantic. And so then you go to your partner, you're like, hey babe, like, guess what, guess what Susie's husband just did. You know, he went and did blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so like you're trying to get them to be like, oh, well, like, I want you to do that for me or I want you to do something like that for me. And that can be a really confusing experience to be on the receiving end of is like, oh, well, why? Like, are you telling me that we don't have enough romance? Are you telling me I should be more like Susie's husband? Are you telling me you want me to do that specifically? And I think at least men, we don't do very good with ambiguity like that. Uncertainty or ambiguity. And so I think that very often when you hear something like that, you think all those thoughts. Oh, are you saying this? Are you saying that? Are you saying that? I don't know. And instead of talking about it, you kind of just shut down and push away. You're like, well, that, like, if you're not giving me any like, real input as to what you actually want here, screw it, I'm not going to do any of it.

I think I've been guilty of this and I think a lot of other women are too, with social media posts, like, I know I've shown you something before. I'm like, oh, look at this piece of jewelry that this guy got for this girl on Instagram. Or you know, oh, look at this, like, date that he set up or something like that. And sometimes I haven't even taken the time to myself to think about, like, do I actually want that? Right? Like, I think social media is such a great example because it instantly makes us feel like we're doing something wrong or other People have it better than us. And so, like, I've seen somebody doing something very elaborate on social and be like, look at what they did versus actually taking the time to feel into, do I want that piece of jewelry? Would I want that kind of date?

Yeah.

And being able to share that with you of like, hey, it would be a totally different picture if I said, hey, look at this really cute date night that this person set up for their partner. Like, I would love if you did something like that for me.

Yeah, that second part is so important. Like, oh, I would love something like that. Or I love these parts of it, but I don't like that part of it that's showing you very specifically what it is that you want. Because I was gonna say it can be so confusing on the receiving end of, like, you know, oh, look at this, look at this, this bracelet that this guy got, this influencer or something like that. Because I hear you, like, saying that and showing me. And I'm like, wait, does she really want that? Like, this is very seemingly, like, out of her character. This isn't. She doesn't usually, like, you know, elaborate or expensive gifts. Like, this is. She is like, does she actually want that? Has she been wanting stuff like this for a really long time and I'm just not aware? And again, that's kind of where that. That shame can come from of like, oh, my God, have I been like, secretly or not secretly, but, like, unknowingly screwing up this relationship for years and years because I didn't understand this really important thing? And now she's like, finally got, like, up the courage to show me, like, okay, well, this. I just want this bracelet.

Is that what I sound like?

Yeah, yeah, that's. And that's exactly what it sounds like in your head. You just get all super amped up like that and downward shame spiral.

Okay, so if we're not telling our partner to be more romantic or showing.

Or just showing them the potential representations of other people being romantic. Okay, so.

And what do we do instead? Our recommendation is instead of romance, focus on love and appreciation. Or on the words that you came up with earlier about what romance really feels like for you, what feeling you're looking to experience. So let's get into the real nitty gritty of how to get your partner to be more romantic. So we're flipping this around again and we're actually having you start with yourself. So you're not going to ask your partner to be more romantic or, like, do these things for me. You are going to Start with doing those things for your partner. So here's what we want you to do. Ask your partner, what was the last thing I did or said that made you feel really loved or appreciated?

And, oh, you know, one idea also, because if you're asking a guy this, it is totally possible that he, like, freezes up or totally blanks, and it's like, oh, I don't know. So if that's the case, you can give him some time. Be like, I'd love for you to think about that, and we'll circle back to this tomorrow at dinner or something like that. Like, give, give. If he doesn't. If. If. Whether it's a he or anyone, if your partner doesn't have an answer, give them some time, but say, you know, I want to come back to this tomorrow.

Okay? Then once you have their answer, do that thing again for them soon. So you may want to ask your partner, like, what's something, like, you know, practical that I could do? So your partner might say, like, oh, that time you planned this elaborate scavenger hunt all around the city. Then be like, okay, well, maybe with something smaller that I did, like, a daily little practical thing. So we want you, again to, like, take that first step of being more romantic and doing something for your partner specifically. You're taking the lead. You're taking that first step. You're taking that pressure off of your partner. And this is especially important if you're a woman in a male, female relationship, or maybe you've fallen into that stereotypical pattern of him feeling like he's the one who's got to do all of this. So you're doing the first thing.

Now, hopefully just asking this question to your partner will prompt your partner to ask you the same thing back. But maybe it doesn't. If it doesn't, you could then casually say afterwards, like, hey, you know, I've been thinking about it a lot, and you know what makes me feel really appreciated? Because you've just asked them, like, what is it that makes. What was the last thing that I did for you? And so here you're just. You're not trying to challenge them. Like, all right, pop quiz. Now can you guess? Now can you guess what it is? For me, this is, like, totally just, you know, trying to, like, stoke their curiosity and by being like, yeah, you know what? Like, I've been thinking about it, and, you know, there's actually a couple things that make me feel really appreciated that you might not be aware of or that, like, are kind of atypical And I've been realizing that, you know, we haven't talked about this very much before. So I just want to tell you a couple of these things because they're super meaningful to me.

Then after you do that nice thing for your partner, say something like this to them. I know it's so easy for us to take each other for granted, but it's really important to me that we both keep doing things to make each other feel loved and appreciated. How can we work together as a team to make sure we both feel appreciated? So, again, like, just that you taking that first step of being willing to do something for your partner, but then bringing it back into this larger conversation of, like, this is important. Like, I want you to feel loved. I want to feel loved. And I love including a phrase like, I know it's really easy to take each other for granted where it's like, you're not blaming each other, you're just acknowledging, like, look, life is busy. We have a lot on our plates. Even you can even say something like, you know, the media doesn't romanticize long term relationships. Like, nobody supports us in, in trying, except for Xander and Vanessa on Pillow Talk, but nobody, like, supports us in really nurturing our relationship. But you know what? Like, I don't want to be like every other couple. Like, I want us to really prioritize each other and love and take care of each other.

Yeah. And, and also, like, I don't want us to be taking these shots in the dark of, like, doing the things that seem like the normal, like, socially acceptable, romantic things or like, you know, just like doing random stuff and hoping that it's really meaningful. Like, I want us to do stuff for each other that actually feels most meaningful to each other. And that's why I want to be talking about this because, like, I have, I have a couple ideas of what is most meaningful to me. And I, you know, I've already just asked you, like, what are some of the things that are most meaningful to you? And so, yeah, like, let's do those things. Let's not do the, let's not do the other crap out there that other people are doing. Not, I'm not saying it's crap like they're bad, but it's just like, for you, if it's not that meaningful, like, not that good for you. So let's not spend our time focusing on that.

Yeah. So I think this step overall will really be that conversation opener for the two of you where you can loop back and share with your partner, like, the Specific feelings that you're really wanting to feel with them. And you can ask your partner, what are those words that come up for them and the specific actions that feel super meaningful for you? And ask them, you know, what are the actions that feel meaningful for them? So hopefully, at the end of this conversation, what we want you guys to have is a deeper understanding of what makes you feel love from your partner and specific things that you guys can do to create that feeling in each other. Okay, so we have a few more tips that we want to share with you. One is something that I have found to be particularly helpful for myself, and that is to pay more attention. I think one of the biggest problems with relationships is that our partner often does things for us in the moments when we are not paying attention or not even necessarily, like, needing that love or romance or affection in those moments. And so the challenge for each of us is that we have to pay more attention. If we want more romance, we have to pay more attention. Because the reality is, even if you're feeling very disconnected from your partner, they are doing things to show their love for you, but you might not be paying attention. So it's like both, you know, we need both things to happen. We want your partner to do more things, do the things that are really gonna land for you, and we need you to be noticing when your partner does do stuff. So even if you weren't feeling it in the moment, like, taking that second to point out to yourself, like, oh, he just brought me a cup of coffee. You know what? He did that because he was thinking about me. And, like, he knows that I need my coffee first thing in the morning, or he knows that I love the way he makes the coffee more than the way I make the coffee. So really giving yourself that reminder when your partner does things. And I think even using that word, romantic, like, this is my partner being romantic. I know we've kind of shit on the word romance a lot in this episode because we want you to be more specific about what it actually means to you. But we've seen so much stuff on social media about, like, all these posts about, like, oh, you have to romanticize your life. Like, you know, really be present in those moments and, like, see the little joy and beauty and everything. So we need to do that in our relationships too. Like, we want you to romanticize the things that your partner is doing. So I have a great example of this that came up just a couple of days ago. Do you know what I'm going to. What story I'm Going to tell?

I don't know. Should I be worried?

No, you should not. Okay, so what happened on a Friday is that we were wrapping up the day, and Xander asked me if I wanted to go on a hike. And I was like, oh, okay, sure. That sounds fun. Let's do it. So I was, like, wrapping up a few loose ends and doing, like, a couple little things that I needed to do before we left. And I noticed that Xander, like, he just seemed really in a hurry to get out and, like, go on this hike. And he was like, okay, I'm going outside. Like, I'm gonna go get into the car. And I just, like, I felt in the moment pretty annoyed. I was like, jesus, he just asked me if I wanted to go on this hike. Like, why is he getting so aggressive about leaving immediately? And he's leaving me in the room, and he's like, I'm leaving. I'm going to get in the car. I'm like, okay, geez. I thought this hike was supposed to be something cute and sweet, that it seemed a little romantic that he asked me to go on the hike. And now it's like, there's this weird vibe. So I was just sort of a little cranky and like, okay, whatever, let's go. And so we get out into the car, and I was like, hey, what was. What was that all about? Like, why are you in such a rush to go on this hike? Like, there's no rush. We have time. Whatever. And Xander was like, oh, well, I was just getting stuff ready for us. Like, I got water. I got a couple of bars for us. And so that was the perfect moment for me where I was like, oh, he was thinking about me. Like, Xander knows I get hungry, and if I get hungry, I get a little cranky. Xander knows, like, you know, when we're doing some sort of physical activity, that tends to make me hungry as well. He was kind of thinking through in his head, it's the afternoon. Vanessa tends to have a snack around this time. He packed up the water for us. So I was like, I really was able to shift my mindset in that moment and recognize, like, here I was thinking, God, he's being rude. And just like, I'm out of here. I'm getting into the car. But what he was actually doing was thinking of me. And, like, I wouldn't have said, oh, is packing me a little protein bar? Is that the most romantic thing in the world? Like, no, not really. But for me, my definition of romance is you're thinking about me. You're considering me, and you're, like, proactively doing things for me that you think I will enjoy. And so that grabbing the protein bar and a bottle of water fits perfectly into my definition of romance. So for me, it was just like, let me shift my mindset and recognize, like, okay, that actually was very romantic. And also to recognize, like, that I can find the romance in these little daily things that I would not normally have labeled romance.

Yeah. So it's funny because. Yeah, you. You heard that I was going to get in the car. I was just trying to say we had been in the bedroom together, and she was still getting ready in the bathroom or something. And we had been kind of just like, I don't know, talking back and forth, like, not. Not in the middle of a conversation, but just saying a couple of things. And I was like, let me go out and get the dogs ready. Get every, you know, everyone ready so that we can walk out the door. And I was just. I was just trying to be like, hey, by the way, I'm, like, leaving the bedroom so that if you talk at me, I'm not going to hear you. And. But, yeah, I mean, it is interesting. I was like, you know, we each. You know, that could have been us. That could have been a situation where we just ended up feeling more distant from each other because Vanessa felt like I was rushing her. I had absolutely no intention of that, but, you know, she could have come out of there being like, oh, God, like, he's being super aggressive. And then, like, the vibe could have been totally off, and I would have been super confused because I would have been thinking, God, I was just trying to be, like, helpful and get everything together. And now she's all snippy. And I feel like, you know, this is probably what happens to so many couples.

Yeah. We, like, miss each other's attempts at romance or attempts at, like, showing love and care and affection. We wind up getting irritated at each other.

Yeah. We turn it into something else. And so then. Yeah. And that's, like, how easy it is to kind of get so far apart. I could have been like, God, I was just trying to do something nice for you. And now she's all pissed at me.

Yeah. And another funny thing that's happened over the last few days, because we planned this episode out beforehand. We kind of talked through the points that we wanted to address, and so we've seen. Started saying the word romance to each other a lot. Like, in those funny little moments. Exactly. Like the protein bar, where it's like, it's not inherently romantic or like you're not gonna see the protein bar in your next Lifetime movie or whatever. But we just keep saying to each other, like, romance. Oh, romance.

It's romance.

It's romance. And like, that actually has been really powerful for me. It's been like this silly, goofy little joke that we're saying back and forth to each other, but it's been a very powerful reminder of in the moment to be like, ah, yeah, that is romantic. That is something that you're doing because you've thought about me or you know me so well and you're taking care of me. So I think if you can find some way of having a little inside joke with you and your partner like that, I mean, you can steal that. Just use the word romance if you want to and like, be goofy with it like we have. But some way of reminding yourself and each other of those little things that are happening in the moment, that's gonna just be so powerful. Our next tip is to create romance rituals. So one of the big problems with romance in long term relationships is honestly, we just forget to do it. I mean, that's the case so many things in relationships we just forget to do.

Or we only think of it as like, oh, that's Valentine's Day. That's romance. That's once a year. And when you only do something once a year, this is a horrible comparison. But it's also very apt. It's like taxes. You do taxes one time a year? Every single. Every single year. When I'm doing taxes, I'm like, oh, you know, it takes me a while to get up to speed. I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, I gotta do this, I gotta do that. And I'll be like, okay, yeah, next year I'm definitely gonna remember to do it this way. Or like, I'll remember some specific detail and be like, okay, yeah, that, that'll be no problem to remember next year, right? Because it seems so clear and fresh right now. And then a year will go by and I'll be like, God damn it, I knew there was something that I was supposed to do. It seems so obvious and I do not remember it. And when you only do something once a year, even if it's a big thing and like a complicated thing or like, you know, a meaningful thing, a couple months later, you are barely going to remember those details. You got to do it more frequently in order to really get it down.

So our little hack here is that if you create romance, right? Rituals, that's going to make it so much easier to remember and to be consistent about it. So a ritual is just something special and specific that the two of you do together on a regular basis. So our this is kind of a bad example because it's a yearly thing. But I want to share it because this is the most powerful, meaningful relationship ritual that we have is that every year on our anniversary we go on a special trip together. And I love that. But there are smaller daily things that you can do that can be just as meaningful. So maybe you make a little ritual of we're gonna walk the dogs together every night, leave our phones at home, hold hands. Maybe it's something like we're gonna spend five minutes together over our morning coffee or we're gonna make out with each other for a few seconds every time we leave for the day or in bed at night. We actually, somebody just told us they have a cute little ritual where they kiss seven times. Not once, seven times.

I like it.

So like seven makes us really slow down and be in the moment with each other. So find something small that you can do that you can create a ritual around that makes it feel like this special little inside joke between the two of you. Then you're also going to feel like teammates too, where it's not like, oh, all the pressure's on one person to be the romantic one and see how you can find ways to make that little thing like, feel like this romantic special thing between the two of you. And our final note on the romantic rituals is if you're listening to this with your partner right now, get out your frickin calendars and put something in your calendar. Like there is no shame in creating some structure to help you both remember. It can be something as little as maybe a reminder to yourselves once a month to plan a date night and you're gonna trade off. Or it can be a daily reminder that literally just says, like, say something nice to my partner. Like give yourself some structure so you don't forget.

Yeah, there's also no shame in just making a new note on your phone and writing out a list of things that, you know, your partner finds romantic. Like if you need that kind of reminder, there's nothing wrong with that.

We all do.

Yeah, I've started doing lists and reminders for so many things and it's so helpful for so long. I would beat myself up being like, oh well, like, yeah, if I wanted to, I would. You know, like if it was really that important to me, I would just remember. And it's like, well, you Know what, dude? Like, I'm 38 years old. My brain doesn't work that way. Like, I have 38 years of data to show me that my brain doesn't work that way. It is not going to change overnight. So let me work with what I got and set some reminders, make some lists.

And our final tip is to give your partner a ton of praise when they do romantic things for you. So this tip, it's so powerful, but people just do not do it. Like, we spend so much time thinking about how we want our partner to be different, to do different things, and then when they actually do those things, we don't give them any validation or praise for it. But this is the best and simplest way for you to continue getting more of what you want. Like, tell your partner how meaningful it is to you. Go back and use those words and say, like, you know, when you did this, it made me feel this way. And, like, that is so important to me. It makes me feel so good. I appreciate it so much. I know that you were thinking about me. I see the effort that you went to. Like, thank you for that.

Yeah. And do this even if it feels like your partner has done so little for you in the past that, like, you know, oh, well, they got to do 10 times as much in order to make up for that. Or, like, oh, well, you know, they got to do this, like, five more times before. I really believe that they're going to do it regularly. I think so many of us fall into that trap of being like, oh, well, I'm not going to thank you for doing it once.

Yeah.

But if you don't give any things, if you don't provide any validation after they do something, like, they might think, huh, I did that thing. But it didn't seem like it really landed. It didn't seem like it was very meaningful. It didn't seem like they really cared. So, like, maybe I won't do that again. Or, you know, it's not gonna. That's not gonna be the first thing you think of to do again, because it didn't. It didn't seem very meaningful.

But the bottom line is that when it comes to romance, you have to ask for what you want. You cannot expect your partner to read your mind. You cannot expect your partner to know you better than you know yourself. You cannot expect your partner to pull all these elaborate gestures out of nowhere and just do them. Like, you have to ask for what you want. You have to ask your partner to love you in the way that you want. To be loved. And I also want to point out that part of being an adult is us being willing to ask for what we want. Us taking that time to understand ourselves and our wants and our needs in the first place and then advocate for getting those needs met. I know we've been fed all these lies by TV and the movies that tell us that our partner should just magically do all of these things without us ever having to talk about it. But that's just not real life. And I also want to point out that asking for something does not make it any less meaningful. I think it's actually more meaningful because it means your partner listened to you, they heard you, they internalized that, and they decided to take action on it. So let me give you an example here. The most romantic thing that Xander has ever done for me was he planned a surprise trip for us. Our five year anniversary. We went to Thailand, and he planned every single detail of the trip. He told me we were going on a trip. I mean, I knew because it was around our anniversary, so it was a little obvious, but he said, we're going somewhere. He told me the temperature to pack for, and I got to show up at the airport with no clue where I was going. He even managed to work it out with the little check in gate agent. So we got checked in, but I didn't know where we were going. And I didn't know where we were going until the second we walked up to the gate.

Yeah, I would actually know. It was even more impressive because we had a connecting flight. We had a connecting flight. Yeah. We were living in Berlin at the time. So we flew like, Berlin to Amsterdam, Amsterdam to Bangkok. And yeah, I managed to get our boarding passes and our bags checked without Vanessa hearing where our final destination was. So we made it, you know, did a short little flight to Amsterdam and had like two hours at the airport. And Vanessa was just like, where are we going? Where are we going? Where are we going? And she didn't know until we walked up to that final gate. That was fun.

So it was insanely romantic. But you know what? I asked for that. I asked for that trip. I told Zander early in our relationship, I said, one of my biggest fantasies is being able to go to the airport. Just show up at the airport, have no clue where I'm going, and to have a trip fully planned for me. So this was not a surprise. Xander did not come up with this on his own. I explicitly and specifically asked for it. But did that make it any less meaningful to me? Absolutely. Not like, I still got to have this incredible experience. And he still spent so much time, so much effort, so much energy making this happen for me. Like, again, like, like I said, like, he listened to me, he remembered it, he decided to take action. He put all the effort and energy into making it happen. Like, the fact that I gave him the original idea did not take away from it in the slightest. And for somebody else, like, I'm sure there's somebody listening to this right now thinking, that sounds horrifying. I would never want to do that, you know? So, like, I think it's a perfect example of we can't expect our partners to read our minds about this stuff because they would probably get it woefully wrong. I don't care how well you know each other. Like, you cannot guess and anticipate every last little detail like that.

I do want to say one thing for anyone out there that where this feels like a good idea and your partner wants to plan a surprise trip for you. Word of advice, because I have, I. I have messed up more surprise trips than I have successfully executed. Do not tell anybody.

Don't tell anybody.

Do not tell anybody where you are going on that surprise trip. And this is going to be challenging. This may be even more challenging than your partner, because your partner wants the surprise, right? Like, they're not going to be, like, prying it out of you. But you're probably going to have to plan this trip many months in advance. And I can tell you from experience, it is challenging to not tell your friends or your parents or whatever where it is you're going. And it's how easy it is to be like, oh, yeah, well, oh, whatever, I'll tell them where we're going. They know not to tell anyone. Or, oh, they don't talk to my wife very often. Like, they're not going to tell her. But here's the thing. When you tell your friend that you're going on a surprise trip, in that moment they hear, oh, yeah, it's a surprise. Don't say anything. But they also hear the destination, and they remember that. And the reality is you're like, they are not the ones planning a surprise trip. They're not thinking day in and day out about how it's a surprise and how important it is for your partner not to know. And so very likely next time they see your partner, they're gonna get excited and be like, oh, you're gonna have so much fun in Thailand, or you're gonna have so much fun in Hawaii or whatever. We've had multiple trips messed up because of that, and now I know the only way to do it. Do not tell anyone. So I just want to throw that pro tip.

Sanders Romance.

So. So more people can get this right, because it's a. It's a tough one.

All right, so if this episode has got you craving more romance, more connection in your relationship, but you're wanting a little bit more help and structure, we have the perfect thing for you. Our connection challenge. This challenge is so incredible. So we started with this idea of, like, most of us want to have more intimacy and closeness in our relationship, but we really struggle with how to get there, how to create that. Or we do things like listen to podcast episodes or read books, and we get inspired, but then we don't actually take action, or maybe we take action for like two or three days, and then we fall off the wagon again. So the challenge is really designed to give you a. A step by step roadmap to creating more intimacy and having so much fun while you do it and making sure that you really are accountable to it and do it for a prolonged period of time. So here's how it works. You are going to get 30 days of emails, and every day you're going to get two options. One is a communication activity, which is going to be a thought provoking question or a discussion prompt that ranges from fun and flirty to deep and meaningful. And the second is an action activity. So that's gonna be something short and playful that you and your partner do together. So it's like a choose your own adventure challenge. Every day you look at these two things, you decide which one you wanna do, or you can do both. But either way, it's gonna be a really fun thing to do together. And it's also going to be like a secret tool in disguise. Like, I really opened up my therapist toolkit and put in all these little tips, tips and techniques and tricks to really creating more emotional intimacy in your relationship. Now, this challenge is super practical and very flexible. So we know so many couples these days are feeling pressed for time, are feeling busy and overwhelmed. So the challenges take as little as two minutes up to like 15 minutes. But they're really designed to give you maximum connection for a minimal amount of time, time and effort. Like, seriously, this challenge is doable. This is not grand gestures. This is not like hours and hours of deep conversations. This is like, what are those little things that we can do on a daily basis that are going to create more connection? And it's also designed to be really flexible. So you can pause the challenge at any time if you need to wait to start it for some reason, like maybe you're in a long distance relationship and you're not going to see your partner for another month. Like, you can wait and like, sign up for it now, pause it, start it later. If life gets busy or something happens, you can pause it. And you can also choose to do a different frequency. So if you want to do it daily, that's great. Every other day is great. Once a week is great, like whatever you want to do. It's also wonderful for couples in long distance relationships or like military couples, because you don't have to be physically together to do the challenge. This is really the only thing that we offer that is such a great fit for long distance distance couples. So if you want to check that out, you can find the challenge@vmtherapy.com connection that's vmtherapy.com connection and we will also put the link in the show notes.

All right, well, that's all for today's episode of Pillow Talks. Thank you so much for listening. Join us again next week when we ask the important question, are you a lazy lover?

Sa.