EPISODE 142: Are You Lazy In Bed? Here’s What Your Partner Says…

A lot of women think like, oh, well, I'm sparing his feelings and I'm making him feel like he did a good job and like, I'm not saying anything that's great, but actually there are a lot of men who are saying like, no, like, I need that feedback. I want to hear from you. I want this to feel like a two way process and it feels lazy to me that you're not saying anything at all. Hello and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Xander Marin. I'm a sex Therapist with over 20.

Years of experience and I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.

Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. Thanks to Cozy Earth for continuing to support Pillow Talks. Give the gift of a good night's rest with cozy earth. Get 35% off site wide when you use code pillow talks@cozyearth.com today we are talking about a topic that, if I am totally honest, made me a little bit nervous when we first decided to do it. Oh yeah, we're talking about being lazy in, in bed. So let me say, like, I do not consider myself a lazy lover. I actually hate using the word lover, but I feel like the alliteration is nice. I don't know, it just, I don't. Do you like the word lover? I don't think you do.

Not particularly. Not particularly. But I think that that's, you know, there are a lot of people that do like to use the word lover. Like, oh, they're my lover. Like, it's a way to get around not having to label it anything other than like we're having sex or like, you know, we have some kind of relationship, but it's not a boyfriend, it's not a girlfriend, it's not a fiance, it's not a. Whatever you want to call it.

Okay, so I don't consider myself a lazy lover, but there was something about when we started planning out the questions that we were going to ask to our Instagram community. Like one of the questions we asked is, do you think your partner is lazy in bed? And that question stirred up a little bit of anxiety and self consciousness for me. I was like, I don't think think of myself as being lazy in bed, but what if Xander thinks that I'm a little lazy in bed.

Oh. And then it's almost like you'd rather not ask the question because you don't want to know the answer a little bit.

But I did ask you, and we can get into that when we go over the responses.

But I think that gets to so many of these kind of, like, sex and relationship questions is like, we are kind of interested in the question, but then we start thinking about it a little more clearly, and then we're like, oh, my God. But what if, like, what if it. What if they said the thing that I don't want them?

Maybe I don't want to know or think.

And then it's like, oh, and that. That's how we get to this. I can. The sand place in relationship.

I think it's also the perfect example of a kind of question or a topic that just makes us a little bit anxious. Like, regardless of how you feel about your performance in the bedroom, there are certain topics where you're like, oh, but am I, like, does my partner secretly think that.

Yeah.

Are we kind of mismatched in this way?

Yeah. And the funny thing is that it's like, who cares if you have been in the past? It's like, if, let's say, the worst case scenario were to come to be true, and, like, you know, you did get an answer that you didn't really want to receive. Like, these are things that are easily fixable. And yet we still. It's just like, despite the fact that it's like, oh, yeah, well, okay, cool. We could talk about it. We could make a couple of tweaks and change things for the better. It's like, but I kind of rather not. No, it's like you worry that that is gonna stick with you forever somehow, even though it's like, totally a temporary in the moment thing.

So today we're breaking down. What does it really look like to be lazy in bed? Why is it bad? Why do we do it even though we know it's not a desirable thing? And of course, how to stop being lazy in bed.

But first, we're going to get into this week's review of the week. Love this podcast. Pillow Talks is one of our favorite podcasts. My husband and I love listening to episodes separately and then talking about our thoughts and reflections. We find that we are more willing and able to be vulnerable in conversations. His favorite episode is Mental Load. My favorite is the Enneagram episode. We're also reading and loving the Sex Talks book. Thank you for helping Our marriage in and out of the bedroom.

And thank you so much for this lovely review. Reviews really help the podcast grow. The more positive reviews are on the podcast, the more likely people are to listen to it. The more likely, like Apple and Spotify are to feature our podcast so new people can find us. So they really do make a big difference. So we do this review of the week with a giveaway every single week as our way of saying thank you. So here's how it works. Go to the main Pillow Talks page on Apple, scroll to the bottom. You'll see. See the reviews right there. You just type your review in. Easy peasy. It'll take you 60 seconds, it's so fast. And then you are automatically entered into the giveaway every week going forward. So it's 60 seconds for a lifetime being entered. I mean, who knows how long this podcast will last? But the lifetime of the podcast, you are entered. And if you hear your review read in an episode, you can email us@infoemtherapy.com and you will get to choose a prize. That's right, there are prizes for the review of the week. Okay, so let's get into it. Let's talk about those Instagram polls that I mentioned a minute ago. So first we asked people, do you feel like your partner is lazy in bed? And the answers were yes, often, yes, sometimes, yes, every now and then, and nope. So I was kind of surprised here. The most popular answer was nope with 53% of the responses. Then we had yes, every now and then with 20%, sometimes with 18%, and often with 9%. So overall, 47% of people thought that their partner was at least occasionally lazy in bed.

Yeah, but I mean, also, you know, we have 18 for sometimes and nine for often. That's like over 25%. That's over a quarter of people. They're like, sometimes more often than not. Yeah, in this situation. And that's a lot of people.

So then here's where it gets really interesting. The next question was, do you feel like you are lazy in bed? Same options here, but this time the most popular response was yes, sometimes with 38%, then every now and then with 29%, often was 18% and nope was only 15%. So that's 85% of people say, said, yes, they are at least sometimes lazy now.

Yeah, and it's pretty striking the difference between, you know, your partner being lazy in bed. 53, you know, over half of you said, no, my partner is not lazy. But only 15% of you felt like you yourself are not lazy. So I think there's a couple things that could be coming up here. One is that, you know, we may be more likely to be hard on ourselves than we are on our partner. The second thing is that we know our Instagram audience is far more skewed towards women than it is to men. So there could also be an impact of gender here. Most of the people, when they're saying their partner is lazy in bed, most of our audience are straight female listeners, so they have a male partner. And when they are referring to themselves, most likely they're referring to themselves as a woman. So maybe something's coming up here.

Yeah, a lot of women feeling like they're the lazy one, and their partners maybe putting in a lot more effort than they are. In a separate poll, we also asked people if they felt like their sex life was too boring. Obviously, these are slightly different things, but I think there is a good amount of overlap of, like, feeling like there's some laziness coming up in the bedroom, and that's, you know, translating to some boredom. This one was very interesting. 86% of people said they worry that their sex life is too boring. That's a pretty wild statistic. So next we asked, what does laziness look like? So if you've listened to at least a couple of episodes of Pillow Talks, you know, we are all about getting specific. Like, we don't want to just talk about laziness. We want to look at, like, how is this actually manifesting what are we doing or not doing in the bedroom? That is coming across either to ourselves or to our partner as lazy. So here are some of the most common responses. First up, we had not initiating. So you're putting, like, all the pressure and expectation on your partner to be the one to get sex going in the moment.

And I think with this one, after the initiation, even if you are 100% engaged and, like, totally right there with your partner. 50. 50, you know, still, if you are never doing the initiating, that can still feel, you know, I think to the partner, that can still feel like, you know, kind of like some laziness or like some. Some part of you is not fully engaged.

A similar response that we also got was, like, not doing anything to turn your partner on or to create a sex. So this kind of goes hand in hand with the initiation of. There's like, there's no setup involved. It's just sort of like you're just expecting your partner to get everything going.

Yeah, we're sort of. It's like, you're just not really paying attention to, to that, you know, that intimate or that sexy part of your relationship.

From there, we had little or no foreplay, just heading straight into intercourse. And I would say this is probably one that more men commit.

Oh yeah. Sort of like laziness in that you are, well, one, you're not paying attention to the element that is probably most likely to get your partner turned on or maybe even orgasm. So it's like a laziness in like just not really being aware or caring much about what the experience is like for the other person.

Next was one of our most common responses. A lot of people said, just laying there and waiting to be served.

So this is like starfishing.

Yeah, starfishing. Like you're just not participating. And I think this is the perfect example of all of the different tones that laziness could take on. Like you could just be laying there because you're totally self centered and you're like, serve me, do me. Like focus on my pleasure. I'm the only one who matters here. You could also be laying there because you're completely and utterly self conscious. You don't know what to do. You're too nervous or awkward or scared to do anything.

Or you think that's what you're supposed to do.

Yeah, you think you're supposed to do that. Like you might even think your partner likes sex better when you just lay there and like let them do what they want to do. So obviously like really, really different experiences of one specific act of laziness. Other people said never taking the lead or never taking control in the moment. So I think this is one of those more nitty gritty things. Like you're never like putting the two of you into the next sex position or saying like flip over or something like that.

Yeah. So it's just kind of giving that vibe of like, oh, like the sex is kind of one sided or like the leading of it, the deciding of it is one sided. Or you know, your partner might even feel kind of alone or wonder like, oh, like do, does my partner really care? Like do they care what we do next? Is this good? Is this not good?

And I think this is one that can get complicated in male female pairings. Because I would say the majority of sex positions that male, female couples do, the guy is the one who's in control or the penis owner is the one in control of the movement. So yeah, that's a good point. It inherently leads to this feeling of like, well, I'm the one doing all the Work here.

Yeah. Or. But also, you know, as we're talking about, this is so interesting. So I'm like, okay, well, maybe I understand this one a bit more. I could totally get. You know, there's a dynamic of you are being penetrated by a penis owner, right? With the penis. And so in order to switch, like, there has to be some, like, action taken by the penis owner to change.

Like, you.

You gotta take the penis out. And you most certainly have to take the first move in order to get into that next position. Like, you have to get off of the. You have to get out of the partner. You have to get off of the partner. And. And then you move that. That sounds sexual. I mean, we are talking about sexual stuff. I mean, it is sexual in a different way.

What do you mean? It sounds sexual.

Get off of the partner.

It is sexual. Okay. A lot of other people said not trying anything new or switching it up from what you usually do. So that's why I wanted to bring in the statistic about sex being boring. It was this feeling of, like. Like, you're just so happy with us to keep doing the same old things we do every single time. Or, like, I feel like I'm always the one who has to suggest, like, let's try a new position. Let's have sex in a different place. Let's talk dirty. Like, let's do something different than what we normally do. And that's another great example of the different tones that it could take on, too. Like, why is somebody not suggesting anything new? Is it because they truly are happy with what they're doing? Is it because they don't have any ideas of what they could do differently? Is it because they feel worried about their partner's feelings of what it would be like if they brought up doing something differently? Like, so many different things could get wrapped up into this? The next answer was receiving more than giving on a consistent basis. And I would honestly venture to say that this is one of the least frequent instances of laziness, I think. Like, of course there are people. Like, this is more selfishness than laziness. Of course there are people who are like, it's all about me. I only care about myself and me feeling good, and I don't really care about my partner. Like, of course some of those people exist, but I think the vast majority of people, like, genuinely want their partner to have a good time. It's just that there's all this other stuff that gets in the way of us, like making that clear to our partner in the moment.

Yeah, I mean, I think when. If you are having a problem with receiving more than giving on a consistent basis, like, I think that's like, it's really only a problem if you've never talked about it. And you're just like, one partner is probably not thinking about it and the other partner is thinking about it, and they're, like, stewing over it and creating this whole big story in their head about what it means or what it is. I think that the vast majority of the time, once you just start to have that conversation of, hey, this is how it's feeling, to me, that problem often corrects itself. Where it would become more of a lazy lover type of issue, I think, is if you've had that conversation before and then your partner is still like, yeah, like, I want to make more of an effort. And then they're just, like, sitting there not doing anything.

A kind of similar response that somebody gave was doing the bare minimum to get the job done. So it's like, yeah, like, you're wanting your partner to, like, get off or wanting the experience to be, like, a good in quotes experience overall. But it's like, I don't really care to put in that much effort. It's just like, what do we need to do to make sure we both have orgasms?

Yeah. I mean, I can definitely picture what this would look like for us. And we've definitely had times where we've operated this way, where it's like, okay, cool. Like, we can get into a certain position and then like, I can use my fingers or I can tell you to use your fingers. And it's like, if we just start doing that from the very beginning, it's like, all right, cool. Like, we get this done pretty quick. If you wanted to.

We'll talk about that more in a second here. But just to wrap this up, the last couple of answers that we got. One was being totally quiet. And this is a very interesting topic. We actually did an entire podcast episode solely about this. That was episode 129. Do you have silent sex? Here's why that's a problem. So definitely recommend checking out that episode. If your bedroom is quiet, like, hear a pin drop quiet. That's pretty quiet. You got.

I mean, you're gonna hear, like, the bed body noises. Yeah.

Like, body shifts, shuffling, like some soft.

Breathing, you know, sheets moving around.

That.

That's really creepy.

And finally, we have not giving any feedback. Like, just not giving any sort of, you know, that feels good. Do that harder. And I think this is a really interesting One that I would guess happens a lot in male female coupling where it's the woman not giving any feedback. And I think a lot of women think that that's like, they think of that as a good thing. This is gonna sound like a really weird example, but you know what it reminds me of way back in the day when I was, I had my sad little foray into the corporate world for like two years when I was doing job interviews. You know when you get to that part in the interview where they're like, do you have any questions for us? I would always say, no, you covered everything. Because I thought that was like a good answer to give.

Like, I thought, yeah, you gave me all the information.

I was giving them a compliment. And I didn't want to seem difficult. Like it's such a way that we women get socialized of like, oh, you don't want to come off as difficult or like, don't want to have too many questions. Like you just want to be pleasant and agreeable. So I would always say like, oh, no, I don't have any questions. You got everything. And then when you and I started dating, you know, you had all this experience in like HR and interviewing and stuff. And I remember us talking about that and you were like, no, Vanessa, like you have to ask questions, make up.

A question if you want.

This is one of the best opportunities to show how actually invested in the job you are, how you've really paid attention to the job description, that you're really thinking about what it would be like to work at this, all this stuff. It was super important. So again, kind of a weird, roundabout example, but I feel like a lot of women think like, oh, well, I'm sparing his feelings and I'm making him feel like he did a good job. And like, I'm not saying anything, that's great, but actually there are a lot of men who are saying like, no, I need that feedback. I want to hear from you. I want this to feel like a two way process. And it feels lazy to me that you're not saying anything at all.

Yeah, I mean, just sort of going back to your, your, your hiring interview example. Yeah. On the flip side of that, on the hiring and you know, having been involved in giving lots of interviews at two different companies, like we would never have hired somebody. I've never recommended to hire someone that didn't ask a question.

I mean, that's why I had shitty jobs in the corporate world and I didn't last very long.

However, I thought of another example that maybe, maybe will drive it home a little more. Because I think it's a situation we've all been in and it's this. Okay, so you go out to like a new restaurant. It could be any restaurant, new or old, but you go out to a restaurant, you know how the waiter comes and asks, like, oh, how was everything? Right? You're everybody, 100% of you. Your first instinct is, oh, it's great.

Yeah.

Let's say it was shit. Oh, it was great.

Unless it's my family who likes to like, tease the waiter and say we hated it with a dead pan face, even though the plates are totally clear.

I will admit I fall prey to this as well. You know, it's usually, it's very few and far between that I really dislike a dish at a restaurant. Because, like, I know from the menu items, like, okay, these are things that I know I'm going to like. But very often it's like, oh, it's, it's under salted. Or like, oh, this is a little weird. And it's so hard for me to actually get up the courage to be like, you know what? Yeah, you know, it's kind of under salted. Because I'm like, well, what are they going to do? Like, I don't actually. It's good. I'm eating it. Like, I'm fine. I don't want them to send it back. I don't want to wait 10 minutes to get another one. Right. But if you flip this around, if you were opening a restaurant, restaurants, a lot of restaurants don't succeed, right? Just like a lot of relationships, a lot of restaurants don't succeed. It is a cutthroat business. Right? And I think about myself, if I were trying to open a restaurant, I would be like, I need feedback so bad. Especially right at the beginning of opening my restaurant. Right? Like, that is going to make or break our ability to be successful as a restaurant. Like, and it's so hard because, you know, yeah, 98% of people aren't gonna give me honest feedback. And it's like, I need to know those little things. Like, is there enough salt on the dish? Like, oh, is there like too much lemon or whatever? Like, you can't taste the different things. Cause one overpowers the other. How the hell are you gonna get that feedback? It's really hard. Have you ever had a waiter say something to you that made you feel like, oh, yeah, it's totally safe and cool for me to give that feedback.

We're really going all in on the dining example. You're a lazy diner.

I am a lazy downer. You know what? This is making me think about things. I have to think, hey, I'm really curious. I'm really curious if anyone's listening to this. If, like, especially if you've been in the, you know, in the restaurant industry or if you're in a server or whatever, I would love to know, like, what is the right way to say something small like that, where it's like, look, I don't want you to send this back. I don't want to make it a big deal. My personal. Like, you know, if it were me, I would have, like, put a little more salt on or I would have done this or that. How do you give that feedback in a respectful way that is like, where, like, you know, the kitchen will react well and it's not going to, like, create a whole hullabaloo at the restaurant?

Okay, well, DM us.

DM us on Instagram. Let me know.

I want to know our weird restaurant tangent. Let us know. Okay, let's get back to the laziness. Though I do want to say there is a place for lazy sex. Like, this episode is not meant to tell you. Like, every single sex session needs to be intense and wild and everybody's fully present, and we're there in the mom and giving all the feedback and doing all the things.

Yeah. And this is exactly what we said in the silent sex episode, too, right?

Yeah. It's okay to have, you know, some occasional lazy sex. So I think great examples are, like, Sunday morning sex, you know, when you just kind of, like, wake up, you're still half asleep, you're cuddling a little bit, and then it turns into, like, some nice lazy sex. Or, like, spooning is a good position that comes to mind. Like, you know, you're just. You're just spooning. There's, like, not a ton of movement. You're kind of just, like, rocking back and forth, hanging out with each other. Like, it's okay to have it be a little bit. A little lazy, but it's still, you know, still fun.

It's almost. It's almost like in certain situations, you can almost sexualize the laziness. Like, oh, we're just here. And then, whoops, whoops, slipped in, Oops. Oh, we're. Oh, we're doing this. Just, oh, so casual and lazy.

Okay. And then you also mentioned getting the job done sex. But I do think there's a distinction. Like, I think there's for sure a place for getting the Job done sex. Like, we have plenty of getting the job done sex. I think it's great, it's exciting. But I wouldn't call that lazy. I think there's a difference between, like, you. Like, I would call that, like, optimized sex. We know what to do. It is, like, minimum effort for maximum payout. But I think we've only gotten to that place because we've put a lot of effort into figuring out, like, what do we need? What do we, like if we're really tired, but we still want to connect, like, what is it that we need to do? So I wouldn't call that lazy sex.

Yeah. I think that the differentiation is if you find yourself having that type of sex more often than not.

And I feel bored by that, too. Like, I'm never bored by getting the job done sex. Like, it's still. I'm like, yeah, this isn't spectacular, but it's, like, very enjoyable. And I feel good and I feel connected.

Yeah, I feel like. I feel like in the past, maybe we've gotten into a couple situations where, like, maybe we've started to kind of cross into that territory and then we've been like, oh, yeah, we've kind of been doing that a lot. Like, less. Yeah, let's. Let's put a little more effort in.

Yeah, there is a line. There's a. It's a fine line sometimes, but I think they are two distinct things. So in general, you know, it's okay to have lazy sex now and then. That's all right. But I think what we're really wanting to drill into in this episode is when the reason for the laziness is because there's like a lack of care or a lack of involvement or it doesn't have to be a. Anything with negative intentions. Maybe it's like a self consciousness and it's just you're feeling self conscious, but it's giving your partner the impression that you don't really care, that you don't really want to be there doing that with them. So there's just some sort of tone to it that doesn't end up feeling enjoyable. Before we go any further, we want to tell you a little bit about our podcast sponsors, because we love them and they help us bring pillow talks to you. Absolutely. For free, which we appreciate so very much. First up, we have Cozy Earth. I am currently sitting on my Cozy Earth sheets, draped in my Cozy Earth duvet cover, and I could not be happier. We absolutely love working with Cozy Earth, and they are offering you 35% off site wide when you use the code Pillow talks@cozy earth.com Cozy Earth makes the softest, most luxurious and responsibly sourced bedding in the world. We have a couple of sheet sets from them and we absolutely love them. They are soft right when they come out of the package, but trust me, wash them like five or six times and you will be amazed by how soft they are. Cozy Earth is the brand that made Oprah's Favorite Things five years in a row. They're ethically sourced using premium viscose from highly sustainable bamboo. They're temperature regulating and breathable so you can sleep comfortably all year round. And they come with a hundred night sleep trial, which means you have 100 nights to sleep on them, wash them, try them out. If you're not completely in love, you can return them within 100 days for a full refund. And all of their products also include a 10 year warranty against defects. If you've never tried Cozy Earth, I have got amazing news. You can save up to 35% off Cozy Earth right now. Go to cozyearth.com and enter promo code Pillow Talks at checkout for up to 35% off your first order. That's cozyearth.com promo code pillow talks so let's talk about some of the other reasons why lazy sex is bad. Why it's something that we want to avoid doing. So first, when there's laziness, there's no enthusiastic consent, just lazy consent. Lazy consent or maybe not even any consent. I mean, I'm thinking about, you know, initiation came up a lot where it feels like my partner's always putting it on me to initiate. They're not doing anything to like get me excited or set the environment, like set the tone for it. And I think a lot of people end up wondering, like, does my partner even want to be having sex with me right now? Or like, are they pressuring themselves to. Or they feel obligated or guilted into doing it. So there's, there's no consent. Like it doesn't give, maybe doesn't even give you the opportunity to feel into, like, do I actually want to be having this sex? There are so many people, women in particular, who wind up having sex out of a feeling of obligation. Like, oh, that's my womanly duty or my wifely duty, or if I don't give it to him, he's going to get it somewhere else. So if we're being lazy, it's really getting in the way of us being able to have Agency and consent over what's happening. Lazy sex also makes it so much harder for there to be connection. So this is something that we talk about all the time, that people have this tendency to think of sex as this purely physical act. It's like just about the physical pleasure. But we talk so much about the intersection between physical intimacy and emotional intimacy and how like they're two sides of the same coin. And so if you're being lazy during sex, you're likely not experiencing any sort of emotional connection with your partner.

You're just getting, you're getting it done, which is much more falling on that physical side of things. You are turning it into just like scratching an itch or just, you know. Yeah, just trying to get it done. And of course there's not going to be much connection there. And of course that's not going to feel very good unless that's what both of you want and that's something that you've talked about. But again, it's getting at that sort of like, is this a pattern? Is this, are we doing this more often than not? Like more, you know, most people more often than not don't want to be having sex that doesn't feel connecting.

Lazy sex is also bad because it puts all of the pressure on your partner to perform. Like, sex becomes incredibly one sided. It's all on your partner to like initiate, to get it going, to turn you on, to be in control in the moment, to make sure you've had a good time. Like that's so much pressure to put on another person. And again, going back to these common male female dynamics that we keep talking about, I think the script that we all have in our heads is like, yeah, it's supposed to be the guy who's leading the entire interaction. But we'll talk about this a little bit more in the moment, the gender scripts thing. But it's so much pressure to put on your partner. And because of all that pressure, there's a much greater likelihood for performance issues.

Yeah. And I mean, and then it feels one sided and eventually you start questioning like, why, why am I doing this? Like, what am I getting out of this? And then maybe even like resenting your partner a bit. Like you're, why are you making me responsible for all of this?

Can you speak a little bit like about the male experience of having sex with somebody who's just like lying there? Like, what does that feel like for you?

Not very exciting, first of all. I mean it's, then you very quickly get into your head like, oh, does she like this? Like, is she enjoying this? Like, I wonder if she would prefer to be doing something else or in a different position or. And so then it's like, well, either you just end up very deep in your own head and like, okay, well, I'm just going to focus on my experience and, like, get this thing done, which doesn't feel. Or, you know, yeah, you don't feel good about afterwards, or you kind of get almost this, like, manic energy of like, oh, gotta keep. Oh, let's try this, let's try that. Let's go harder, let's go softer. Let's move positions. Like, trying to elicit some kind of feedback from your partner. And then that's also a really not fun energy to be showing up. And also probably, like, highly likely for the performance issues to rear their head if you're like, oh, gotta try this, gotta try that. Oh, this isn't working. That's not working. Like, yeah, there's nothing fun or sexy or exciting about that.

And can you speak a little bit to, like, how that leads to performance issues for men?

Well, not having any physical or verbal feedback from your partner, it's like. I mean, the reason that sex is exciting is seeing that your partner is really enjoying it.

I think that's something a lot of. It's funny because I'm asking you these questions and you're kind of giving me this look of like, why are you asking me this? It's so obvious. But I think a lot of women don't understand that, like, a lot of women have this perspective of, well, a guy's happy as long as he's getting it. So, like, you know, he's putting his penis in me and, like, having his orgasm. So what could possibly be wrong about that?

Yeah, I mean, I think. I mean, I think that the harsh reality is that, like, you could use, like, your hand or like, Like. Or like a male masturbator, basically. And if you just want. If it was just a typical experience.

Yeah, a male masturbator is a toy. Not like that.

Well, I said that because I think if I said a toy. Most people hear the word toy and think, like, vibrators and stuff.

I know. I just thought maybe some people would hear that and think, like, wait, a male masturbator is like a man who comes in and masturbates you.

No, that's not. That's not what I was saying. Thank you. Thank you for the clarification. But, yeah, I think the. The harsh reality is that, yeah, if that was the only experience you were after, like, you could get that experience on your own time and, like, fully controlled by yourself. Like, by yourself, if that's what you wanted. Like, I'm. I'm in it for, like, the connection, the experience together. It's something that you just cannot get on your own.

Yeah. So if you're feeling like your partner's just lying there not participating in the moment with you. Yeah. It's much more likely for the guy to lose his erection, to struggle to reach orgasm, or even to, like, just feel so much anxiety about wanting to get it done that then he just kind of, like, is rushing into orgasm too. So it just can cause so many negative effects. You also mentioned that, like, it's not exciting. And I think that's true for both partners. Like, it's true for the lazy partner too. Like, if you're just lying there being lazy, not participating, like, that's fun for you.

Certainly not exciting for you. Unless you're keeping. It's all. It's exciting in your head, but which I doubt. But who knows?

We talked a lot earlier about feedback, and I think feedback loops into another one of the damaging effects of lazy sex. Like, if you're being lazy, your partner is not going to know what you like. Like, they're not gonna have any sort of feedback about, like, do you like this position? Do you like this pace? Do you like me talking dirty to you in this way? Do you, you know, whatever it is, they're not gonna know and they're never going to learn. So you're just gonna continue having sex that's not feeling particularly good for either of you.

I mean, this was a huge turning point in very early on of our relationship was, you know, when we started talking about, like, hey, it would be nice to get a little more feedback like when you're getting closer to orgasm or whatever. And just helping me better understand, like, oh, okay, yeah, like, we're on. We're. We're on the right path. Like, you're doing the right thing. Or like, or we do need to switch things up. And I think that was. Things started really getting turbocharged after that.

We'll talk about that example in a second too. When we start talking about, like, why do we have lazy sex? But to wrap up why it's bad, I think, you know, I just talked about how your partner will never learn what you like. Like, you're also the lazy person. You're never going to learn what you like either. If you're just, like, lying there letting your partner do things to you. Like, maybe Magically, for like 1% of people, your partner will magically figure out what you like and it's going to be amazing. But for the vast majority of people, like, you're just not going to learn anything about yourself. And because of all of that, there's so much less likelihood for you to experience pleasure. It's like you don't know what you need, your partner doesn't know what you need. So your partner's just kind of fumbling around in the dark, doing the things that they want or that they think that you want. So it's just going to be so much less likely for you to experience orgasm, pleasure, satisfaction. And because of that, because of what we call the enjoyment desire connection, it's also going to decrease your desire. So if you haven't heard us talk about the enjoyment desire connection, it's literally that if you're not enjoying something, you are not going to desire it. So I always use the example of overly steamed mushy broccoli. I don't think anybody likes overly steamed mushy broccoli. And nobody craves overly steamed mushy broccoli. And that makes sense. If you ask somebody like, hey, do you ever crave mushy broccoli? They're like, no. And they don't think there's anything wrong with that because they've made the connection between enjoyment and desire. If I don't enjoy something, I'm not going to desire it. But we don't make this connection when it comes to sex. Even though it's so obvious. If you're not enjoying the sex you're having, why would you desire it? Doesn't make any sense to.

Yeah, I mean, bringing it back to my long winded restaurant Feedback example. If you have a new restaurant that opens like right down the street from your house, oh, it's so convenient. It's right there. I want to love it so bad. You walk in there like, you order, you know, I don't know, say you love lasagna and they have lasagna. You're like, oh, yes, I love lasagna. And you order it and it's just like not very good lasagna. If you don't give any feedback about that. If you don't, you know, ever tell anyone that you don't like it, why would you keep coming back to that restaurant and order like the lasagna that you know isn't going to be very good? Right. It's like you got two, like you're either going to be like, okay, well, I'm just not going to come back to this restaurant, or, you got to say something and see if they can rectify the issue.

And finally, I want to mention that lazy sex can also wind up feeling really dissociative for the lazy person. Like, if you're just lying there, but your head is somewhere else, your brain is somewhere else. Like, you're not fully present in the moment. That's literally like a dissociation. Your brain is somewhere else from where your body is. And I'll talk about trauma in a second, but it's just gonna be a really painful experience for people to be in a dissociative state.

Yeah. I think the reality is that, yeah, if you are not enjoying the sex, of course your head isn't really gonna be there, and you're gonna be thinking about other things. Like, you know, you're not. Unless you're just like, oh, I'm just gonna use this time to meditate. Like, the reality is the only way to really be in the moment with sex is for it to be enjoyable. The moment, it is not that enjoyable. You're pulled out of that. Like, oh, God, yeah, this isn't really good. And then eventually you're like, okay, yeah, this isn't gonna get any better. So I'm just gonna start thinking about other things.

Okay, so let's talk about why do we do this? Like, why are we having lazy sex?

Yeah. I mean, the way that we've laid it out, I feel like we've made a pretty strong case for why it is not great. And if you were to just see that, it would be like, well, yeah, why. Why would anybody do that? Like, there's so many negative impacts. It's not good for anybody. Right. But there's. There's some very simple reasons why we do it. It's not because we're bad people or we're lazy people or we don't care. Right.

So we've already talked about this a little bit, but gender scripts are probably the most common reason that people wind up having lazy sex. So if you're in a male, female relationship, like, we really grow up with these ideas that men are supposed to be in control during sex. They're supposed to be the initiators. They're supposed to, you know, drive things along in the moment. Like, they're the one in the driver's seat, and the woman is just kind of along for the ride. And then we women also get all these messages about how we are not supposed to be too Sexual, like, we don't want to be seen as a slut, so we feel like we have to hide our desires or hide our excitement. And even some of the stuff that I talked about earlier about, like, being, you know, nice and not hurting anybody's feelings. So all this gender socialization that we spend our entire lives getting, it really comes out during sex. And so a lot of people, there's not the intention to be lazy, but a lot of women just feel like, well, that's. That's how I'm supposed to be during sex. That's what I've been taught I need to do.

Yeah. And I can. I can totally see how that dynamic, especially about, you know, not wanting to be a slut, not wanting to be too into it or too easy or whatever it is. I can see how that is so much more likely to come up. Like, the. Especially the first time you have sex with somebody. And probably, you know, the first couple of times that you have sex with somebody and you might even have in your head, oh, well, I'm just doing this right now. So that's what they think. But then we start to get into that whole, like, blood oath thing that we talk about a lot of. Like, the first couple times we have sex, it's so easy after that to be like, oh, well, we've basically now determined how we have sex. We've made this silent blood oath, and we never talked about it. But, like, I do this, he does that. Wham, bam, thank you, ma'. Am. Like, it's done. Yeah. We might go into this with good intentions. Like, oh, yeah. Well, no, like, I definitely want to be more sexual and open up more, but once you do something a couple of times, it's so much easy. It's that inertia just kind of kicks in. It's like, yep, this is. Well, this is what we did. So this is what I do. And I will say, I think there's also a flip side to this, where men also want sex to be perceived as good from the very beginning of a relationship. And so, you know, just like, you know, the. The woman might be like, oh, well, I want to make this seem really easy. I don't want to seem too sexual. You know, I want. I want everything to be good. I think a guy also wants to get some validation that, like, he did a good job, but also just that it was good in general because, like, men, we've been socialized. You're supposed to be really good at sex, despite the fact that no one has actually taught you how to do it. And there's not really good resources out there for you to learn after. I can totally see how, like, after you have sex with someone for the first time, let's say I had sex with someone, they're not very reactive. They don't, like, have much energy. They're just kind of lying there. But like, you know, we get it done. Like, I might be really inclined afterwards, like, oh, that, like, yeah, that was so great. And like, give you validation for it. So it's like you've done something because you think you're doing yourself and me a solid. And then I say something because I think I'm doing you a solid or doing us a solid solid. And it's like we both just validated each other for doing the thing that we don't really want each other to do. And so we get locked into it. So, yeah, I think that, you know, men and women are both responsible for this in a way.

Yeah, I really think that, like, not wanting to hurt each other's feelings plays such a big role in this. It's like, yeah, I don't want to give feedback that might hurt his ego. Or I don't want to, like, suggest something in the moment and then maybe he'll think like, oh, was what I was doing wrong or bad? Like, we just get so nervous about sharing our, you know, feelings with each other that we wind up giving each other these sort of this, like, lip service to it or no feedback whatsoever because we're so afraid of hurting each other's feelings. A lot of times we have lazy sex because we feel self conscious. Like, we just feel awkward about sex in general. There's a lack of confidence. Like, we don't know what to do. Like, I don't want to be lazy in the bedroom, but, like, I don't know what I could be doing or I should be doing or like, what my partner would like, what would excite them. So there's not any sort of malicious intention with it. They're not trying to be lazy, but it's like I just feel too self conscious to actually try something. Another reason for lazy sex is just a straight up misunderstanding. So this was the example that Xander referred to a few minutes ago. So early in Xander and my relationship, we had a huge misunderstanding about my orgasm. So the way that my orgasm works is like, the closer that I get to it, I often get quieter and quieter because I'm really focusing on the experience, on the, like, building intensity and sensation.

Getting locked in.

Yeah, like, getting locked in for that experience. But what Xander was experiencing was that I was going from being, like, loud and making noises and talking to him to all of a sudden being very.

Quiet, which felt, like, bad.

Yeah. Which felt like.

Wait, what? What happened?

Yeah, what happened?

Things were going so well, and now they're not. Have I done something wrong?

Is she.

Is she close? Is she not? It seemed like she was, and now she's not. Like, oh, I better go harder. I better go faster. I'd better suggest that we switch it up. Or. Or just like. Or just feeling bad about myself, like, oh, God, I did something wrong, and I don't know what it was.

Yeah. So it was like, you know, it was like a little. A pocket of maybe what was perceived as laziness in the moment. Had this conversation where I was able to share with him, like, oh, no, no, no. That's actually, like, a good thing that I'm going quiet. And we, like, figured out different strategies to work around it. But all that to say that sometimes there might just be a misunderstanding about what's actually going on in those moments. Another reason for lazy sex that we absolutely have to mention is trauma. Even if you really want to, or you go into sex with the intentions of being present. Like, you can have a shutdown reaction where you get triggered. You start remembering the trauma. You're feeling unsafe, you're dissociating, like we mentioned earlier.

Or maybe it's just, like, a vague feeling of, like, needing to be on guard throughout the whole experience.

Absolutely. So if that's the case for you, definitely go over to vmtherapy.com free and scroll down to the bottom of that page. We have a free course called a Survivor's Guide that we give away to survivors. It is not meant to be a replacement for psychotherapy. We definitely recommend personal therapy for anybody who's experienced any sort of trauma. But that guide will give you practical tips for making sex feel safe and pleasurable again. So definitely make sure to check that out. Another common reason is that we are agreeing to have sex that we don't actually want to have. So you're being, quote, unquote, lazy in the moment because you didn't really want to do it in the first place. So it's sort of the same sense of, like, you're just letting your partner do sex to you.

The throwing them a bone, the obligation.

Sex, the, like, pity sex, or, like, feeling pressured or guilted, too. Like, all of those dynamics can get wrapped up into there. And then finally, let's mention actual laziness. Like, let's be real. Sometimes we are just being lazy. Sometimes we are just, like, wanting to be serviced.

Yeah. Sometimes I just like it when you get on top.

I know.

I got to just enjoy the view. Do you know, a couple little minor hip thrusts?

So sometimes there is. There is laziness that comes into play. And let's be realistic. Like, sex takes effort. It's a physical exertion. Sometimes my legs get, you know, real crampy and creaky. I've been on top for a long time, and I just keep rest.

I'm just, you know, trying to do something good for your health. Babe, I'm doing you a solid.

But I will say, like, in general, I think the actual laziness plays so much smaller of a role than the other dynamics that we've mentioned of why we wind up having lazy sex. All right, so let's talk about how to stop having lazy sex.

Yes.

We hope we've convinced you by this point that it is a problem. We should not be having lazy sex. So how do we actually stop it? First thing that we encourage you to do is identify your fears. So we think that for the majority of people, you're having lazy sex because there's some sort of fear that has come up, and we've talked about so many of them already. Like, fear of hurting your partner's feelings, fear of being awkward, fear of not knowing what to do, fear of, you know, thinking your partner won't like it if you take more control. So I think taking a step back and thinking about, like, what is it that I'm worried would go wrong if I was more participatory. The next step is to identify your goals for your sex life. This seems like such a simple thing, but so few people have actually taken the time to think about the kind of sex life that they want to have. We all, like, you know, feel weirdly like we feel all this pressure to have great sex, to have this incredible chemistry and amazing relationship. But so few of us have really taken the time to think about, like, what does great sex mean to me? What is it that I'm wanting to experience when it comes to sex?

And if you don't have any kind of goal or don't have any kind of idea of what it is that you actually want, then you don't have anything to compare, like, the sex that you're having to. So it's so much easier, like, oh, well, okay, well, this time I'm just gonna, like, kind of let it get done or. Or whatever. Versus being like, oh, yeah, no. Like, I am a person who wants sex like this, that feels like this, or I have this kind of connection, then it's so much easier to be like, oh, yeah, no. So, like, no, I. I don't want to show up that way when I'm having sex. It's kind of like, for me, as you know, when I go surfing, if I don't have a specific goal each time I go surfing of I want to work on this type of maneuver, or I want to try to. You know, I want to try to do this, or I want to try to get. I, like, I just want to get as many waves as I can, or I just want to, like, sit out the back and try to get, like, one really big one or something. If I don't have any specific goal, What I found is, you know, I just kind of, like, let my instincts take over, and it's like, I surf, but I don't get any better. You know, afterwards, I kind of like, okay, cool. Like, I did it, but, like, I didn't really. Yeah, I don't get that same sense of satisfaction out of it as I do. And I'm like, oh, yeah, no, this is what I want. This is what I want to try to get today.

Wait, I have a question. Do you go into each instance of sex with me with a goal in mind? I want to get in this many pumps. I want to do this position. I want to sit in the back and let her do it to me.

I don't know. I feel a little called out because. No, I don't. I don't. I don't.

Oh, dude.

I don't go in with a goal, but I guess.

Yes.

So that example, like, was maybe a little too literal, where it's like, you know, when I go surfing, I do have a goal. You know, the sessions. This is interesting, this set, you know, my surf sessions, where I do have, like, the clearest goal and actually work towards it. I feel like I get the most out of. So I do wonder, you know, should I have a goal before each sex?

Well, I. I actually think that's not bad advice for somebody who feels like they're struggling to be more participatory, like, struggling to get out of these, you know, quote, unquote lazy tendencies if you think about, like, something specific. Because I do think setting goals can be a very empowering experience. Like, maybe you're a woman who's like, I want to get over all this BS that I've been taught that I'm not allowed to take the lead or that I'll be a slut if I seem too excited in sex. Like, I think it could be a really great experience for you to think about that in the moment of, like, okay, I'm going to practice being assertive. I'm going to practice asking for what I want. I'm going to practice giving feedback. Like, if you think about it beforehand, you're for sure much more likely to do it. I think you don't go into sex every single time with a goal in mind because you feel really good about your sexuality and the kind of sex we have. Not to say that there aren't room, you know, there isn't room for improvement. We talk about goals all the time, like, in a broader sense, but just not like, every single moment, every single instance. But I do think there could be something to be said about going into each instance of sex with a goal. Just get some momentum going.

Yeah, I think what we have is we talk pretty, pretty clearly and pretty openly about what it is that we're looking for out of sex, how we want the experience to be. So I think that's. Those are sort of our goals. Like, yeah, you know, we have certain energy that we like to show up with or, or whatever. And in general, it's like, cool. Yeah, we're, we're. We're doing it that way. That feels good.

If you're struggling with this step, go back to the beginning of this episode and re listen to it. The section where we talked about, like, what does lazy sex look like? Because you can turn all of those around into specific goals. Like, I want to get confident initiating. I want to get confident asking for more foreplay. I want to get confident being on top. I want to get confident giving my partner more pleasure. Like, whatever it is, you can turn all of those things around. But really getting clear on, like, how do you want to have sex? That is not lazy anymore. Our next step is to start talking about sex with your partner more. This is a really great baby step to start taking. Like, so one thing that you can do is acknowledge with your partner the fears that you identified in that first step. So in our book Sex Talks, I give the example of this client that I worked with, a woman who never got on top. And her partner for sure thought that this was a laziness thing. But what was coming up for her is she felt really scared that she didn't know how to be on top, she didn't know how to move her hips, and she was really worried that he was going to laugh at her, at her and make fun of her. And so we did this session together where I helped her, like, say that out loud to him. And I helped him. Like, he was immediately like, oh, Like, I had no clue that that was the situation. And I will never laugh at you. Like, I want you to, to try it out. Like, try some different movements. Try to find your rhythm. Like, I'm not gonna laugh at you. So sometimes just airing our fears out, like, that can be so beneficial in helping decrease them.

And then the final step is try to enroll your partner in the idea of this being something that you get to explore together. Because the reality is, is that if you look at this like, oh, this is my problem. This isn't my partner's problem. I alone have to fix this. That can be a really challenging place to have the motivation to, to do, to do something from, right? Like, it doesn't feel good to get yourself into this place of like, oh, yeah, well, like, they know what they're doing and I don't. And like, I'm the problem. I gotta fix it. Because the reality is sex is something that you do together. Your sex life is yours collectively. It's not, it's not mine, it's not hers, you know, it's. It's just, it's both of yours. And so you gotta get your partner on board with like, hey, this is, this is something like, I want to explore this together. You know, I want to, I want to work on showing up a little more. I want to work on us having more fun. I want to work on having a little bit more pleasure, whatever it is. And you know, another reason why you want to get your partner enrolled in this is because you're not going to go from like, lazy to 100% engaged overnight. Like, it's going to take some time. It's going to take some work. It's going to take experiencing some things and trying some things. And it's going to be a lot easier to do that if your partner is on board with doing that with you.

And finally we recognize that it can feel intimidating to go from, okay, I've been lazy and non participatory in sex for a very long time. I want to not be lazy anymore. I want my partner to think I'm like, exciting and present and fun in bed. But, like, how do I get there? So what I want to talk to you about in particular is the sex challenge. So we mentioned earlier, in this episode, 86% of people worry that their sex Life is too boring. And we have been there ourselves. We have had that same fear. And so we created the sex challenge to really give you this step by step path to creating more excitement and connection in the bedroom. So here's how it works every day for 30 days, and I'll tell you in a second about how this challenge can be really flexible. You don't have to do it every day, but you get an email from us with two new ideas to try in the bedroom together. There's a sensual activity which is something based more around, like, communication, touch, or foreplay. And there's also a sexual activity that's a more R rated assignment, but it is not always intercourse. You actually don't need to have any intercourse to do the entire sex challenge. So you get to choose each day which activity sounds the most exciting to you. So there is no having to, like, think about new things to do together. No having to, like, initiate these conversations with your partner about, like, okay, so I was like, googling how to spice things up on the Internet and I found some ideas and I don't want to be lazy in bed. So, like, what, which one would you like? We just take all of the work out of it for you. All you have to do is open your email and follow the directions.

I think that sounds doable.

It's very, very doable. And the challenges themselves are really designed to be doable too. We know that people are busy, you guys are overwhelmed. There's a lot going on. We didn't want this to be something that you sign up for and then never around to doing. So we really designed the challenge to be as efficient and effective as possible. So the challenges themselves take like anywhere from five to 15 minutes to do. Some of them can be done in like two minutes if you're really in a rush or tired that day. So this is like, this is not, you know, an epic hours long date adventure where you have to buy stuff and do set up a scavenger hunt and like, do all this complicated stuff. This is.

Yeah, you don't have to do any of that. You don't have to. You don't have to. You spend $0 on anything else beyond just the challenge itself.

You can get all the information@vmtherapy.com challenge.

Well, that's all for today's episode of Pillow Talks. Thank you so much for listening. Join us again next week when we talk about feeling confident in your own skin during sex.

Sam.