EPISODE 153: The Secret Foreplay Technique You Don’t Even Know About

Your attitude about doing chores really matters.

Wait, so I can't just be like, oh God, I hate taking out the trash and like dragging it out the door?

Exactly.

That's not going to turn you on. Damn.

Hello and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Xander Marin. I'm a sex Therapist with over 20.

Years of experience and I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.

Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. Thanks to Zocdoc for supporting Pillow Talks. Zocdoc is the only free app that lets you find and book doctors who are patient reviewed, take your insurance, are available when you need them, and treat almost every condition under the sun. Go to Zocdoc.com pillow and download the Zocdoc app to sign up for free and book a top rated doctor. Thanks to Dipsea for supporting Pillow Talks. Get an extended 30 day free trial when you go to dipseastories.com pillow picture this. You're crawling into bed at the end of the night, your partner's already in bed right there next to you and.

You'Re thinking to yourself, hmm, oh yeah, baby.

Sex sounds nice.

Yeah. What's gonna happen?

Oh yeah, you're ruining my little vignette here.

No, I'm trying to. I'm trying to crank the heat up, man, as if things about to get sexy up in here.

No, that's the thing. I am here as your resident sex therapist to tell you if you are thinking about sex as you are crawling into bed at the end of the night, you are too late. And you really should have been thinking about this all throughout the day. So today's episode is all about foreplay and a major way that we are getting foreplay wrong. Because let's be honest, when most of us think about foreplay, we think about just using our hands and mouths on each other, like just getting genitals ready to have intercourse. And if we're really honest about what foreplay actually looks like in our relationships, for most of us it's like 30 seconds of some very half hearted fumbling around. Again with the intention. Like in male female couples of like, let's just get to the intercourse. Let's get to the main act here.

Fumbling around does not sound very exciting.

Well, 30 seconds of half heartedness doesn't sound very exciting either.

No.

Like, most of us are getting foreplay soon, so, so very wrong. And it's interesting because a lot of us are also beating ourselves up for having low desire for sex. But it's like, that's the warm up to sex. These 30 seconds of half hearted fumbling, who's going to get excited about that? Who's going to even want to say yes to sex even if you're not that excited about it? Like, it's just a recipe for disaster. So foreplay is so much more than this. So we decided today we had to do a very special episode all about non sexual foreplay.

Oh, intriguing.

Yeah. Because not only can foreplay be so much more than just using hands and mouths on each other, but it also can be something that just extends throughout the day that we infuse into our entire day. So let's first define what it is that we're talking about here. Like, what the heck is non sexual foreplay? Because most of us have never heard those words, non sexual before the word foreplay. So we think of non sexual foreplay as anything the two of you do to increase desire and excitement for each other. So foreplay absolutely can be sexual, but there are also plenty of other ways that we can connect with each other that aren't overtly sexual. So we're not talking about oral sex and manual stimulation in this episode. We're talking about things that most people wouldn't think of as sexual. So in other words, you could do them in front of your child, you could do it in front of your friend or your parent, and nobody would think, like, get out of here. Go find a room. But still, it's these little things that are contributing to desire, excitement, and connection.

You know, just hearing you say that got me thinking about this. Seems like the type of thing that we were all really good at as teenagers. Right. Like I'm thinking, you know, thinking 13 to 16, 13, you know, whatever, until you become sexually active. You know, in this teenage years, there's a lot of, you know, touching, hugging, flirting. These things where you are like, oh, my God, like, I'm really into this person. Like, I really want something to happen. But we're at school, we, like, aren't allowed to be alone with each other. Who knows when we're actually going to get some alone time to go out on a date or anything like that.

Mm.

And like, this is like a day in and day out thing. If you are, you know, in high School, you have a, you have a part, you know, you have a boyfriend or a girlfriend, but you're not regularly, like, you know, you don't have like, like, oh, let's go back to my place now. It sucks. Where, like, it's totally cool and no one's ever there. Right. Like we're doing this stuff all the time.

Yeah, exactly. Like everything feels flirty when you're at that stage. Like, everything feels just imbued with excitement, excitement and anticipation and that energy.

Imbued. That was. As a T word.

As a T word, yeah. You like that?

Yeah. Bringing it back to high school, man. All I have to do is start talking about stuff that happened in high school and all of a sudden Vanessa is with an algorithm sat word, trying to show me up.

Okay. And that actually leads really nicely into the first of the benefits of non sexual foreplay that we wanted to talk about. So really one of the main benefits is that feeling of keeping the spark alive of like everything feeling exciting, exciting, and you feeling so much more connected to your partner and attracted to them and desired by them. It's just that that energy between the two of you. Non sexual foreplay is a great way to feel like you're still being kind to each other, you're prioritizing each other, you're being playful with each other, you're wanting each other. Because I think that's one of the big things that comes up so much in long term relationships. Like we don't feel wanted by our partner anymore, or at least we don't feel wanted in a way that feels meaningful to us, you know, so non sexual foreplay is just such a great way to keep that spark alive in the relationship, to keep that energy going. Non sexual foreplay also very much impacts desire. So I think one of the big mistakes that the average couple makes is we think of sex as something that happens just in the bedroom at the end of the night with the lights turned off, the door closed.

In a vacuum.

In a vacuum. And we don't think about the fact that how we interact with each other all throughout the day greatly impacts our desire to be intimate with each other. Like, if we have not talked to each other all day, we haven't said anything nice to each other, we haven't spent any quality time together, we haven't touched each other. Like, it feels so much harder to get excited about being intimate with each other. So non sexual foreplay is a great way to keep that safe, simmer going between the two of you to keep the excitement alive. And again, because these are things that you can do in public or when other people are around. Like, you're not having to wait until you're in private and nobody's going to interrupt to do these things. So another way that we like to think of it is that foreplay for the next time starts the moment you finish having sex. So you finish having sex. It's time to like start thinking about the next time. Like, how do we need to keep this connection going, keep this desire for each other going so that the next time feels so much easier for us to get into with each other?

Yeah, I really like how you refer to keeping the simmer going. I think that is so important and something that we forget about the longer we get into relationships. Right. And so if you have the simmer going all the time, that makes initiating sex so much easier. Right. Like it doesn't feel like you're starting from zero, just like, you know, to really draw out the analogy, like starting to boil a pot of water from just straight out of the tap is going to take a lot longer than a pot that is on the stove. It's kind of at or just right below a simmer all the time. And you're like, oh, I want boiling water. Cool. I just crank the heat up and boom, water's boiling in like 10 seconds.

So we turned to our Instagram audience. We're over at Vanessa and Xander. If you're not following us on Instagram yet, you definitely should be. But we asked our community what non sexual things turn you on? And I gotta say, this was one of the most responded to question boxes we have ever put up.

That's saying a lot. We put up a lot of question boxes. We've asked a lot of questions on hot topics. So that that's saying something.

Absolutely. Like people were just sharing so many answers and feeling very passionate about their answers too. And it made me think about the fact that most of us beat ourselves up about libido. Most people would describe themselves as low libido. No libido. I don't know what happened to my libido. Like, the average person really feels like they've lost contact with their desire. And looking over these responses and the sheer volume of responses, it really remind reminded me that low libido is not the problem. Like most of we're gonna have to do a whole other episode on this. Most of us think that we are low libido, but in actuality we just haven't been looking at our libido in the right way. If you can come up with a bunch of answers of non sexual things that turn you on, like, the libido is not the problem. It's likely more that your partner doesn't know about these things and so they therefore are not doing these things to help you get turned on and excited to be them. So we're going to share the most common answers with you. And this is definitely a great list to listen to with your partner. You can pause the episode when there's something that you really like and tell your partner, like, oh yeah, I love that one. Or I'd love for you to do more of this. There might be certain ones where you're like, yeah, no, that one doesn't quite do it for me. But it's just a great list to go through together so you guys can better understand what gets each other really excited about intimacy. So hands down, the most popular answer was non sexual touch.

And people got really specific here. So here's some examples. Hand on my lower back, Hand on my thigh while driving. I know that one does it for you.

That's a good one.

Caress of the cheek.

We had a separate question box on a different day where we asked our community, like, what does your partner do that makes you feel wanted? And again, the number one answer was non sexual touch. Like, non sexual touch is such an important element of a relationship, but if we're being honest, the average couple does not touch each other very often. I mean, honestly think about this right now. Can you think of the last non sexual touch that your partner gave you? Like, most people really have to rack their brains to remember it or at.

Least like outside of a hello or goodbye, I think, like, it doesn't really count. Well, it can count if you do it the right way. But you know, like a quick little kind of hug and peck, like as you're leaving or something isn't going to, you know, qualify as non sexual foreplay that's going to last you throughout the whole day. Right? So it's like, yeah, when was the last time that just like you were some meaningful, yeah, like random moment around the house and you just like touched your partner in a nice way.

So we actually asked our audience if they were happy with the amount of non sexual touch in their relationship right now.

And 31% of you said no, 44% said it's okay, but it could be better. And only 25% said, yeah. So a quarter of people are happy, everybody else is.

Like 75% of people want more.

It could be better or it's just legit. Not good.

Then we even gave our Instagram audience a little non sexual touch exercise to try out and we asked them to report back and, like, let us know how it went for them. So we're going to read you some of the responses. I could feel my partner release all of the tension from their body.

It led to a great, deep conversation, which led to great sex that night.

There you go. I gave him a hug when he got home from work. He leaned in and said, you're my person. That's so cute.

Oh. Our hug took away a lot of the frustration I was feeling.

It made me feel safe and loved.

Made me feel wanted.

I gave my husband a hug and the kids saw. They came over and joined for a family hug. If that's not the cutest thing I've heard all day today, I don't know what is. I also want to say a lot of people responded to that question box and said, like, I can't do that. Like, I don't want to do any non sexual touch because that would make my partner want sex. And if that is the case in your relationship, then that is exactly why you should do more non sexual touch, because you have built up the bristle reaction. This is a name for a very common dynamic. We did a whole podcast episode about it. It's episode 99, the Bristle Reaction. Go check that out as soon as you finish listening to this episode. But it is definitely not a reason to avoid non sexual touch. You actually need to lean into non sexual touch even more to overcome the bristle reaction. Okay, so then let's talk about the second most common answer, and that is chore play.

Oh, chore play, baby.

Chore play, baby. Now, I know a lot of people think of chore play as a joke, but it truly is a genuine turn on for so many people. So chore play, if you've never heard that phrase before, like, it's a combination of chores and foreplay. It's the idea of, like, doing chores as foreplay. So common examples that came up were, like, doing the dishes, laundry, vacuuming, cooking.

So I know a lot of people think that this is a joke, but I know that you like chore play. Can you explain to the people, like, what's sexy about chore play?

Okay, there are a couple of different things. It depends on the chore. So sometimes it is the chore itself. Like something like when you're hauling the trash out, like, your biceps are flexing and like, you look. You look good and strong. And so sometimes there's actual a bit of a turn on in, like, watching your body physically do the chore. Sometimes it's because you're doing a chore for me. And so I know that it's your way of really taking care of me and showing me you love me. So an example from our life is that you make the bed every single day.

And I do it in a specific way that I know you like.

Way that you know that I like. And I know if it was up to you, like, you would probably never make your bed or you'd just like, pull the comforter over. Like, you don't really care about having a made bed, but you know that I care. And having a made bed also feels like very sexy to me. So you take the effort every single day to make the bed, do it in the way that I like, so it really makes me feel cared for. Like, when I walk into the room and I see that the bed's done, I'm like, he thought of me. And sometimes chore play just reminds me that we have a true partnership, that you and I are really a team. We divide chores up equally, we both carry our fair share of the weight, and we both follow through on that. And I think the inverse of that is something that gets in the way of so many relationships. So many people say I don't feel like I actually have a partner. So it's not necessarily that someone's getting turned on by loading the dishes, but it's giving them that sense of like, I've got a real partner. I have a real adult grown ass human being as a partner. And I appreciate that. And sometimes chore play is just fun and silly. Like, I think you and I have really leaned into it and you try to get a little goofy sometimes when you're doing chores. And, like, it just contributes to that playful, silly energy that for me is a really big turn on. So you'll be like, wiping the counter down and like, you know, giving me the look or like, doing a little dance with it. And it just, it makes it feel fun. Like, at the end of the day, being an adult is annoying sometimes. Like, chores are annoying. Nobody wants to be doing them, but if you can do them in a way that feels fun and playful, that makes me feel attracted to you.

Yeah. So it's not just about the doing of it. It's like for the person doing it, it's how you show up in that moment too. Like, are you having fun with it? Are you, you know, kind of flirting back to your partner? Like, oh, you like it when I make the bed like this?

Yeah, exactly. It can be very flirty. And that also brings up another really good point about chore play, which is that your attitude about doing chores really matters.

Wait, so I can't just be like, oh God, I hate taking out the trash and like, draggin out the door? That's not gonna turn you on. Damn.

So there are a couple of different things. Like, I think in general, people really enjoy when their partner does chores without being asked. Like, no, we don't want to get into nagging situations in our relationships. Like, oh my God, I asked him 10 times to take out the trash and he still hasn't done it. So if you're really trying to do chore play as a way to turn your partner on or make them feel taken care of, just do your chores without being asked. Or even better, do some of your partner's chores for them without being asked. Like, that really makes it feel like you're taking care of them.

So, like, pro tip here for, for people who are just starting out with this idea or thinking like, oh, huh, I've never really thought of it this way. I want to try this out. If you are in a situation where maybe you haven't been doing your chores very consistently or you haven't really had specific chores assigned to you, you've kind of just been perpetually like, oh, I'm just helping around the house and you're wanting to try this out. Like, be honest. Like, be really honest with yourself and be like, okay, I don't have a track record of doing this stuff consistently. You're gonna have to give it a little bit of time. Like, first you have to establish to your partner that they can trust that you are actually going to do, do your shit right, and it's going to take some time to build that trust up before it can turn into a fun and sexy thing. Like, I don't want anybody having the idea that, like, you're going to go from, like, not really doing much around the house or like, never really doing your chores consistently, only doing them when your partner asks to. Like, I do it one time and all of a sudden my partner's wildly turned on. So just want to set some expectations and try to, you know, get, get real with people. Because the reality is, is that a lot of people are in partnerships where, like, one of you is not really holding up your end of the bargain very well.

Before we go any further, we want to tell you a little bit more about our podcast sponsors because we love them and we really appreciate that they let us bring you pillow talks absolutely free of charge. So first up, I want to tell you a little bit more about zocdoc. We're a relationship podcast, so you know, we talk a lot about compromise, but if there's one thing that you should not compromise on, it is your health. So don't go back to that one doctor who uses your appointment to catch up on the latest headlines just because they're available right now or they take your slightly sketchy insurance instead. Check out ZocDoc, the place where you can find and book doctors who will make you feel comfortable, listen to you and prioritize your health. And you can search by location, availability and insurance. So literally no compromises here. With Zocdoc, you've got more options than you know. ZocDoc is a free app and website where you can search and compare highly rated in network doctors near you and instantly book appointments with them online. Once you find the doctor you want, you can book them immediately. All of these doctors have verified reviews from actual real patients. We're talking about tens of thousands of top rated patient reviewed credible doctors and specialists you can filter specifically for ones that take your insurance, are located near you, and treat basically any condition you're searching for. The typical wait time to see a doctor booked on Zocdoc is between just 24 to 72 hours and you can even score some same day appointments. Go to zocdoc.compillow and download the Zocdoc app for free. Then find and book a top rated doctor today. That z o c-o c.com pillow zocdoc.com pillow let's talk a little bit more about Dipsea. So I first found out about Dipsea from a client. We were working with her for her low libido. She was really wanting to understand more about what got her turned on and excited. And she came into her first session and told me that she had recently checked out Dipsea. If you've never heard of Dipsea before, it's an audio app full of hundreds of short sexy stories designed by women for women. They bring scenarios to life with immersive soundscapes and realistic characters. There are stories about second chance romances, adventurous vacation flings, and hot and heavy hookups. And there's a growing library of fantasy series with vampires, Greek gods and fairy smut. So my client was really enjoying using it and I thought, you know what, I've got to check this out myself. This was years and years ago. They must have just been first starting. And I thought it was such a cool app. I got a really big kick out of it too. So I'm so glad that all these years later, they are now able to podcast sponsor. Now, for listeners of the show, Dipsea is offering an extended 30 day free trial. When you go to dipseastories.com pillow that's 30 days of full access for free. When you go to dipseastories.com pillow dipseastories.com pillow now, the most important thing about chore play is that you do it with zero expectation. So the setup here is not, oh, I do the dishes, so therefore I get sex. If your partner can tell that you are doing something with the expectation of a reward, it is not gonna work. And I will say, especially us women, we can sniff out your motivations miles and miles away. So if we get even just the faintest little whiff of, okay, like, come on, I wiped the counters, I took the trash out. It's very similar to the classic massage. You know, when we like ask for a massage and you start massaging us and then your hands start wandering. It's like, no, no, I know what you're doing here. So there can be no expectations here. Like, you have to do your chores because you genuinely care about being an adult, being a good partner, contributing to your household. This is not a transactional kind of situation. Okay, so let's talk about some of the other common, favorite types of non sexual foreplay. Another one was spending quality time together and two things got called out in particular. People said, phone free time. We are all so irritated by our partner's phone usage. And this is something that's like, it's very easy to project out and to fail to recognize that we are all pretty bad about our phones. Really easy to just like, get annoyed at your partner. Like, ugh, he's always on his phone.

Yeah. Or like, my partner uses it way more than I do, so therefore I must not have any problem with it. And I'm like, it's, it's open season for me to complain about my partner. They, they can't possibly be upset at all with me. But the reality is you're both doing it. You're both doing it in ways that is probably bothering the other one. So just because someone uses it more than the other doesn't mean that they're not allowed to have a feeling about that.

Yeah. So definitely find ways to build some phone free time into your relationship. I think every couple should have at least a Few minutes of phone free time every day. And the other thing that came up within that spending quality time umbrella was meaningful conversation. So many people said they just feel like they never talk about anything meaningful with their partner. And that creates a serious disconnection, which, yeah, if you're crawling into bed at the end of the night and you're like, God, the only thing we talked about today was the schedule for tomorrow and the weather. Like, that makes it hard to want to experience physical intimacy together. So I will just put in a quick little plug for if you feel like you have nothing to say to each other. You like, like, go out on date night and you're just sitting there like, oh, my God, I can't even think of a single thing to ask my partner. We will put a link to our connection challenge in the show notes. It'll give you some great conversation openers to have more of those meaningful conversations.

The next top non sexual foreplay is compliments. We actually have an entire episode about compliments, why they're important, how to give great compliments. That is episode 112. So go check that out. If you're like, oh, God, compliments. I don't know how to do this. The one thing I will say about compliments is like, yeah, compliments work. The thing, though, is that it's not just any compliment. The key here is figuring out which types of compliments each of you like and giving those type of compliments. So I, I want to throw that, throw that out there because I don't want anyone being like, okay, cool, I just heard this episode. I'm gonna come home and just, like, start giving random compliments. Like, those might not be particularly meaningful. So there's a whole compliment language in terms of, like, what it is that each of us like.

Another common form of non sexual foreplay is eye contact. So many couples very rarely look each other in the eye. We actually just this weekend did a poll about eye contact during sex, which is obviously now we're talking about sexual stuff, not non sexual foreplay. But the vast majority of people said they keep their eyes fully closed during sex.

Wow. I can't imagine I'm a very much an eye open person.

Same. But, yeah, eye contact, like, outside of the bedroom is really important too. And it's one of those things that feels shockingly vulnerable. Like looking your partner in the eye. You're like, this is the love of my life. We've been together for decades. Like, why is it so hard to just look my partner in the eye? Xander and I are making intense eye contact right now.

We make a lot of eye contact, but you might be hearing this and being like, huh, do we make eye contact? I don't know. So I'm curious. We just want to plant this seed in your head, like in your eyes. Oh, that's. That's creepy. I just want to plant this seed in your head. So, you know, tonight, tomorrow, whatever, you're hanging out, you're making dinner, you're sitting on the couch, Make a little eye, think about it. Like, huh, Are we. Do we look at each other? Are we looking at each other? What does it feel like if I say something to my partner and I just really look them in the eyes?

And eye contact is a great opportunity to be a little playful and silly too. Like, it doesn't. I think people hear eye contact and they think it has to be like soulful eye gazing. No, it's no blinking gaze into the depths of my being.

We are not talking about that.

I mean, you absolutely can do that. There's totally a time and place for, like, meaningful eye contact, but during the day, like, just looking over at each other, like, making contact, making a little smile, a little wink, a little eyebrow wiggle. I love when Xander wiggles his eyebrows at me. He can do the, like, one single eyebrow at a time. Gonna have to put this on video, but it just feels like playful and fun and sweet to me. So eye contact. Next up, we have talking about sex using your mouth, but in a non sexual way.

We are very sexual in that, but still sexual in nature because of what you're saying.

This one really tests the limits of is it non sexual here? But no. I think our secret ingredient to our entire business is non goal oriented sexual communication. And I've got to come up with a sexier name for it than that.

That is a mouthful.

Yeah, that's what she said here. He said, I don't know. But, but I think like, not talking about sex as an initiation method or as like trying to turn your partner on, but just talking about sex in a more, like, light hearted, objective way. So we create so much of our content with this purpose in mind of helping you and your partner talk about sex in a more open way. So you can, like, listen to a podcast episode and pause and say, like, oh, what do you think about what they said? Do you agree? Do you disagree? We make a lot of episodes where we're doing, like, advice episodes. So you can, you know, it's. Maybe it's not related to your exact situation, but you can still, again, like press pause and have this conversation. Like, oh, what would you tell that couple? What do you think might be the issue going on with them? We do this on Instagram all the time too. So just helping you talk about sex where you're not trying to solve any problems, address any issues, initiate it. It's just like, let's talk about sex the same way we talk about our other hobbies and interests. So definitely make sure to use the podcast and follow us on Instagram to have this form of non sexual foreplay. And then finally, another very common answer was music.

I think this is a very unappreciated one. I mean, similar, similar to the eye contact where we know that a lot of people are not making eye contact during sex. We know for sure that a lot of people do not listen to music during sex. And probably if you're not listening to music during sex, maybe aren't listening to a lot of music at all in general with each other. And music has a huge impact on the energy that you feel in a given moment. Just what the vibe feels like. So obviously it can make a huge difference when you're having sex. We love our special DTF playlist that we've made for ourselves. But. But yeah, you can use music, you know, whenever you're hanging out to really. Yeah. Set the. Set the emotion.

And I think a lot of people will find that there are certain songs that like get them in the mood and get you feeling a little like pumped up and excited and in touch with your own body. So music is a great thing to play around with. And of course music can be very bonding between a couple. Like, you don't even have to think about it as a turn on necessarily. But you know, you probably have certain songs that remind you of different points in your relationship or different milestones that you went through together. So having like joint playlists together or certain songs that you listen to that can be so meaningful and special. So let's wrap up with how to talk to your partner about non sexual foreplay. So like we've said, like this is a topic that most people haven't really thought of. So it's very likely that your partner has no clue about what non sexual foreplay is or what you would like or, you know, the things that would work for you. So this is a great episode to listen to or re listen to with your partner. Definitely listen to at the very least to the list of different types of non sexual foreplay and share with your partner the particular things that you really Enjoy. I also think it's very beneficial to talk to your partner about the benefits of non sexual foreplay. Like, whenever we're trying to get our partner to implement some sort of new behavior, we want to share the benefits of that. Like, what is the impact of you doing this? Like, whenever we're doing new things, like, we need to know that there's a positive benefit to it. Otherwise why are we going to feel a motivation to do it? So tell your partner. Any specific benefits? Like, yeah, I feel like I would really feel the spark with you again, or I would feel super important to you, or I missed that playful element that we used to have in our relationship. You know, just getting really clear and specific about the benefits that would come up for you. And I would also encourage you to talk about this particularly nuanced aspect of it. How sexual do we want non sexual foreplay to be?

Whoa, hold on a second.

Am I melting your brain a little bit?

You're melting my brain.

Okay, so like we were saying earlier, you don't want it to feel transactional. Like, you can tell if your partner's like, okay, let me do this dumb thing because you'll have sex with me if I do. It's not meant to be a transaction, a tit for tat. Like, you do this and then you'll get a reward. Here's your little reward for being so good. Right? So you don't want it to feel that way. And at the same time, it is meant to be foreplay. Like, we are doing these things to get each other, you know, excited and interested in intimacy and feeling connected. So this is really gonna vary depending on where you are in your relationship. Like, if you're really struggling and feeling very disconnected from each other. Like, I would suggest keeping these things more focused on, like, just being nice to each other and experiencing a little bit more connection and closeness. But if you're feeling like you guys are already in a good place and this is kind of a cherry on top of the sundae type of thing, then I think there's the space to be more playful and like, ham it up a little bit.

So it's kind of like, how overt do you want the non sexual foreplay? Yeah, to be?

Like, Xander and I are pretty overt with it. Like with, with chore play, we'll really ham it up and like, oh, look what I'm, you know, look at me and my big muscles doing this thing.

Would you say our day to day routine is imbued with it?

I would say our Day to day routine is imbued with it. Or like the non sexual touch is another good example. Like we're not touching each other with this pressure and expectation of like, hey, I gave you the little back rub, now come have sex with me kind of thing. Or like, hey, I'm giving you a hug so shouldn't you be turned on now? But we do like give a little bit of sexual energy to each other in those touches. So somebody might grab the butt a little bit or like do that kind of lingering caress. But it's because we've worked on doing these things in a more non sexual way at first. So now it doesn't feel that pressure and expectation, it just feels more fun and playful. So bottom line, this is gonna be different for everybody and it's gonna be different in every season of relationship. But you do wanna get a sense and communicate that to your partner of how sexual or a non sexual you want the non sexual foreplay to be. Now if you are loving Pillow Talks and want to make sure you don't miss out on any new episodes, make sure you are following us. So to follow you just need to head to the main podcast page where it lists all of the Pillow Talks episodes. You'll see the word follow under the logo on Spotify and on Apple Podcasts you'll see the follow with a plus sign button in the top right. Following the podcast means you'll never miss out on a new episode because it will show up right in your feed. And special message to you Apple listeners. Apple recently implemented some new rules where if you don't listen to just a few episodes of the podcast consistently, they are unfollowing you. So you have to go back to the Pillow Talks page and refollow us. It's super annoying. I don't know why they've done this, but I actually checked my own Apple podcast and I am unfollowed from our podcast. Damn, I know they unfollowed me from my own podcast.

So rude. So yeah, so like if, if you see the new episode and you're like, oh, I'm gonna listen to that tomorrow when I'm driving here, there, whatever, just like hit the play button and then hit pause for a second just so that it knows like, oh, okay, I'm not, you know, I'm gonna keep this because hey, I know life gets in the way sometimes I'm off and like, like, oh yeah, I'll listen to that later today. And then I forget for a week or two. But nowadays with what Apple's doing. It's like a week or two goes by, and all of a sudden they're like, oh, yeah, you don't like that podcast anymore. And then, like, you don't even remember because it's not there in your feed. So hit that play button when you see it available to you. It helps us out, and it helps you out. And with that, that's all for today's episode of Pillow Talks. Thank you so much for listening. Join us again next week week when we talk about how to overcome resentment in your relationship.