EPISODE 163: Should We Have A Threesome?

Oh, my God, it's on. Granted, that is a very hot fantasy to have. Sounds delightful.

Sounds great. I'd love that.

But I think the reality is that maybe one in a million threesomes happen that way. Hello, and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Xander Marin. I'm a sex therapist with over 20 years of experience.

And I'm just a regular dude. Share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.

Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. Today we are doing an entire episode about one of the hardest words for Xander to currently say, threesomes. Oh, that was pretty good, actually.

Yeah. Threesomes.

Three is you and you. And me. One, two, three. No. Okay. All right. I was unfair. You did a good job.

I did. But that's because I was ready and I was enunciating. I'm sure. There you go. I'm sure that throughout this episode, I will stop thinking about this so hard and I will butcher three sums.

Okay, so why don't we have you explain. Why do you sound so different, Xander?

Why. Why do I sound like there's something in my. Yeah. Why do I sound like there's something in my mouth? Well, the answer is there is something in my mouth. I had a procedure about eight days ago. A device was installed in the top. In, like, the upper part of my mouth, my upper palate. I'm having. It was a palate expansion surgery. And so I have a palate expansion device installed in my mouth because I have an abnormally narrow upper palate, which impacts all kinds of things like breathing and energy and my nose and allergies and sleep. I just learned that it is a huge problem, and that there is actually a procedure they can do, a process to expand that area, and it really, like, impacts your life for the better. So I have that done, and it's going to be a couple of months of basically cranking this device that's in my mouth, and it will slowly push my upper jaw, my upper palate, open wider and wider to maybe somewhere between like, 6 and 10 millimeters.

So we've been told that your voice will get better, you'll get less lispy as your mouth just gets. I mean, you have some pretty gnarly hardware in your mouth right now. Your mouth, it Needs a little time to adjust. But, you know, we decided we've got to continue on with the podcast, so we're just gonna have a nice little.

Period of kind of lispy Xander transition time.

There you go.

Yeah. So, yeah, the doctor told me that likely I, you know, in about a week or two, my voice will kind of go back to normal. We shall see. I'm about eight days in. I'm getting more and more used to it. I'm also doing Invisalign at the same time. I'm not wearing my Invisalign trays right now because that adds a whole nother layer to it. So it's like I'm getting used to two different things going on in my mouth. It's kind of a lot. But we're gonna ease our way into podcasting by doing no Invisalign trays, at least today. And, yeah, so sorry for this voice sounding a little different than normal. It's not entirely pleasant for me. I'm getting used to it, and hopefully over the coming weeks, you'll hear my voice getting better and better.

Yeah. So Xander's really excited about all these benefits, like sleeping better, having better oxygen, fewer sinus issues, stuff like that. But I am most looking forward to you getting because apparently this procedure changes the way your face looks in a hotter way. You're gonna look much more attractive.

Well, I mean, who knows what I'm gonna look like with more pronounced cheekbones and a more chiseled jawline?

So if you're not already, you should definitely follow us over on Instagram so you can watch Xander's face change over these next few months.

Yeah, it's gonna be fairly quick. Like over the course of three to four months.

Yeah, like, you'll be able to see a shift.

Some actual real changes in how I look, which is kind of wild.

We're at Vanessa and Xander, if you're not following us there already. Okay, so that little disclaimer aside, today we are talking all about threesomes. This is a topic that we are always get so many questions about. So we decided, let's do a whole episode breaking it down. Who's having them? Are we enjoying them? How to have them? If you want one. And we're going to wrap it up with some hot, hilarious, and very awkward stories about other people's threesomes.

And we're also going to talk about our Vanessa and I having threesomes.

Yeah, we will.

Are we or aren't we? Okay, but first, I got to get us into this week's. Review of the week opening up hope I've been going through years of frustration in my marriage about lack of sex, bad sex, and personality differences. You know what? Maybe Vanessa should read it this time.

What? To spare you?

Yeah, to spare me.

I'm giggling at years of frustration.

Years of frustration.

Okay, I can read it. I've been going through years of frustration in my marriage about lack of sex, bad sex, and personality differences. The Pillow Talks podcast is something that is opening my eyes to how I've been contributing to these issues and ways that I can work on things from my end. Hey, we love to see it. I started seeing them on Instagram and loving their content there and so I decided to give their podcast a listen. Being a podcast virgin, having never listened to a podcast at all all before. Great one to be my first. Oh my gosh. That's actually really cool to be someone's first podcast they've ever listened to. I love that.

Very cool.

They are so relatable and seem so non judgmental, which makes listening to them and taking their advice so easy. I'm only four episodes in and just starting my journey on my path to improvement, but this podcast has already made such a difference in my mental state and happiness. I'm already feeling closer and closer to the point where I bring my wife into this journey. Thank you both so much for your content, approach and advice.

Oh.

Oh my gosh. We love this. Thank you for this incredible, incredible review. And I have to say I'm super impressed by this person. To have only listened to four episodes and then been willing to write a review.

Hell yeah.

Especially because I think most people don't realize how important reviews truly are to a podcast. I have confessed before, I did not know how important it was. I never left a review for a podcast.

You especially didn't know after just four episodes of podcasts in general?

Absolutely not. But they are so important. The more reviews you have, the more likely Apple and Spotify are to feature your podcast. Which means you get new people coming in. And we are on a mission, you guys. Like, we want to help as many couples as we possibly can, so we need your help in getting in front of more couples. So if you have listened, let's say this, if you've listened to more than four episodes of this podcast and you have not left a review yet, we would be so, so grateful to you if you could take a second to leave one. So here's how it works. Go over to the main Pillow Talks page on Apple Podcasts. Scroll to the Bottom, you'll see the review section right there. It takes 60 seconds to write a quick little review and we do something really cool to say. Thank you for taking that time. If you hear your review read in an episode and you are automatically, like, entered into this every week once you leave a review. But if you hear your review read, you can email us@infoemtherapy.com and we will give you one of our gu. Absolutely. For free as our way of saying thank you. Okay, so let's get into the episode. First, we went to Instagram to do some polls about threesomes. The first question that we asked is, how would you describe your relationship to threesomes? We just wanted to get a sense of, like, how many people have done them. So we had four responses. Never had one, but curious. Never had one. Not curious. Have had one or multiple threesomes in current relationship and have had one or multiples in past relationships. Xander, what were you expecting would be the most common response?

The most common would be that you haven't had one and you're not curious. I thought that, though the curious crowd.

Oh, that's a tough word for you.

Yeah, I thought. I would have thought that the curious crowd would have been pretty close. Yeah, the c. Curious. I would have thought that that, like, never had one, but also curious would be pretty close behind. It is. It does go in that order, but it's not, like, close.

Okay, so here were the responses. The most popular one was never had one, not curious, 59% of people. Then the second most common was never had one, but curious. 28. I was expecting more people to be curious. I did think that the most common response would be like, nah, I'm not into it. But I thought we'd have maybe a bit more that we're curious.

Got. You know what? You know what? We should have asked now that now that we're here, with hindsight, knowing what these numbers are, what I want to know, because I think you would have responded not curious if, like, currently you're not curious, but maybe you were in the past. I want to know how many people have been curious at some point in time, like, when they've been sexually active. Like, would I maybe want to have one? Because I bet you that number would be a lot higher.

So then only 10% have ever had one in the past, and only 2% have had one in their current relationship.

Wow, that's really interesting. Not very many. Yeah.

Only 2%.

Not very many people currently do this.

So only 12% have ever, like, ever had a Threesome in our audience, which, actually, that seems like about right to me. 12%.

Yeah. I mean, if I'm thinking about my friends, I don't know how many of them have had threesomes.

Okay, I have to pause, though, and take a quick little. Take tangent. I just want to make sure we're both being really clear that, like, we're not making fun of people who have speech impediments or lisps. I actually have a little bit of a lisp myself and found out about it in a kind of embarrassing, very public way. So I, like, I totally get that. It's like, an area of sensitivity for people. And we're not making fun of that. It's just. It's the novelty of, like, you have gnarly hardware in your mouth. Like, it's a very. You're speaking very differently from how you normally do. And I think both of us are, like, entertained by it. It's not a. Like, oh, my God, that's so embarrassing or, like, disgusting that you're talking like that. Like, it's just like, wow, that's not normally how you talk. And you're like, I'm having to figure out how my tongue works in my mouth. But I just want to make sure we're saying, like, we're not making fun of speech impediments here.

Yeah, absolutely. This is a. This is a novel situation for me, and this is the first podcast we've recorded. I'm just starting to get used to and understand, like, what I can and can't say.

Yeah. Okay. So back to it, though. The next question we asked was, if you have had a threesome, would you do it again? Only 26% of people said yes.

Interesting.

Yeah. So we don't have more stories here about, like, why people would not have it, but I did find it interesting that only one in four people said that they would redo the experience or, like, have another one.

Yeah. And I mean, I don't want to spoil too much of the episode, but I think that, I mean, this. What this gets at for me is that so many of us have this, I don't know, overly romanticized or maybe overly sexualized.

Overly sexualized. I don't think anybody's like, oh, this romantic threesome view of threesomes where it's.

Like a fantasy, and so we see it portrayed so often, and, like, the. It's. It has such a sexual charge. It's something we're so excited about. And so I think a lot of people end up jumping into situations where the opportunity presents itself or even just pushing a decision of like, let's do this, let's do this without really talking it through in a super responsible way. And I think that is probably one of those things where in the moment, as soon as it starts, you're like, oh, I get why people say you got to talk about this. Or like the moment, it's like the attention turns from you to your partner and the other person and you're like, oh, I'm a little left out and I don't know how I feel about this. You know, I'm not saying that people make bad decisions. I'm just saying I think a lot of people realize pretty quickly like, oh, to do this in an ongoing and sustainable way requires a type of responsibility and communication that I wasn't aware of. I think it's kind of similar to like, you know, opening up a relationship. A lot of people have this idea of, oh, well, if we just open up the relationship, it'll be so easy. And it's like, well, no, actually that's way harder. It's not like that's not going to fix your relationship. Like that's something you do when your relationship is in an amazing place and you are like really wanting to experience something new.

Yeah, absolutely. I think it's really different when you're in a long term relationship. I think you could probably have a threesome in a dating, like in the dating stage. A lot easier.

Yes.

And also it's a lot easier to be the third person. Oh my God, it's so much easier.

Oh yeah, you're not really drop into this. Not responsible for very much.

Yeah, I mean there, there are challenges for the third as well. But like, yeah, when you're in a long term relationship, there just are inherently more feelings involved that can make the whole thing feel a lot trickier for people.

And I think, you know, in my experience, the people that I know who do generally have more threesomes on an ongoing basis are people who tend to be in, you know, less monogamous relations type of situations, in more sort of open or poly types of situations where they have already done that work of, you know, they have that foundation of the communication, that foundation of like being able to know how to really handle and confront jealousy and you know, all that stuff. And you know, it's a lot easier to do this on an ongoing basis if you are already comfortable with like, you know, having sex with other people in general within the confines of a, of an existing relationship.

So all that being said, Threesomes are still one of the most common fantasies that get people excited. And we do think that there are ways to have very successful and pleasurable threesomes. So we want to walk you through some specific steps for having a great experience. So the first step that we wanted to cover, we've already been covering it a little bit. It's kind of this caveat that there will be a lot of planning. I think a lot of people have this fantasy of this, like, spur of the moment threesome. Like, you know, you're out at dinner, you're at a party, and you know, you see some stranger and things start getting wild and you go back to your, like, it all just kind of falls into place. Some mysterious, like, amazing, hot third person just falls out of nowhere and the vibes are right and it just like seamlessly happens.

No one says a word.

Yeah.

You just look at each other and.

Oh, my God, it's on. Granted, that is a very hot fantasy to have. Sounds delightful, sounds great.

I'd love that.

But I think the reality is that maybe one in a million threesomes happen that way. So don't hold your breath for this perfect experience. Just fall from the heavens into your lap. The reality is that if you want to have a great threesome, it is going to take a lot of planning.

Yeah. And also I think that if you want that spur of the moment experience to happen, it is much more likely to happen if you have already laid all the groundwork of doing all this work in the past, of having a more planned threesome, doing that successfully, having a track record of trust with your partner, of like, oh, yeah, like we've done this before. We both enjoy this. We know how it works. We have the communication. You know, we kind of have an ongoing agreement that this is something that we are into and we know how to say no at any point, if either of us are feeling uncomfortable. Once you have that groundwork, then by all means it increases the likelihood that you could have that spur of the moment experience because you wouldn't need to be necessarily be like, all right, let's pause this and have a 30 minute conversation to make sure we're on the same page. It's more of a, like, you know, maybe at that point you just like even like have a hand signal or something of like, hey, we we in on this? Hell yeah. Let's go.

Okay, so first thing you're going to need to do is talk to your partner about it. Let your partner know you're interested in a threesome. And this is a step that just right off the bat tends to deter a lot of people because it can be an intimidating thing to talk to your partner about. So one of our favorite little sneaky tricks for talking to your partner about any sort of fantasy or curiosity that you is to use what we call the dream scheme. So what you do is tell your partner, hey, I had the craziest dream last night. I had a dream that we were having a threesome. And then you see how your partner responds, and you can throw in things like, you know, oh, I never. I hadn't ever thought about that before, but, man, it was really hot. Or that's not something that I'd really fantasized about before, but I can't get this dream out of my head. So our preference is always for couples just to be open and upfront with each other. Like, like I said a few minutes ago, this is one of the most common fantasies. So I do think if you were just to go to your partner and say, like, hey, have you ever thought about having a threesome? Like, I'm kind of curious about it. Like, there's a probably a pretty high likelihood your partner will say, like, I've also been kind of curious about it. But the dream scheme is a really nice technique if you're feeling nervous and just, like, working your way up to that level of confidence of talking to your partner openly and directly. Of course, another option is to just use this podcast episode. Like, hey, did you see that? This week's Pillow Talks episode is about threesomes. Like, why don't we listen to it together? What do you think about that? I've never thought about it before, but now I'm thinking about it because Xander and Vanessa were talking about it. So you can use either of those techniques to open up the conversation. One thing that can come up when you talk about a threesome, especially if you have a partner who tends to struggle with self confidence, is that your partner might assume that what you're saying is, I want to have sex with other people because I don't like having sex with you. I think a lot.

You're not exciting enough for me. I need more excitement than you are able to offer.

Yeah, I need someone else. I need someone more. I need someone better. So if you already know your partner struggles with self confidence, one thing to focus on in those conversations is why you want to have a threesome with them.

With your partner.

With your partner. Yeah. It's an experience that you want to have with your partner. So it's not about, like, oh, I want to find some super hot third person who has a better body than you do, or, like, is better at blowjobs than you are.

And if for some reason you are, if that is what you're thinking, then just, no, this is not for you.

Yes, this is not for you for sure. But yeah, just sharing with your partner, like, maybe it's something along the lines of, like, I love when we try new things together. Or, like, you're the only person that I've ever felt comfortable, like, kind of pushing outside of my comfort zone with. Or, like, I think it would be so sexy to watch you, you know, have this experience. I think it would bring us closer together. Like, why is it that you want to have this experience with your partner rather than like, oh, I think that girl over there is really hot and I want to be able to fuck her too. And then final thing I'll say here is, do not pressure your partner into having a threesome. It is so important that both partners are enthusiastically on board with anything in the bedroom, but especially with threesomes. And we hear about this far too often where one partner really feels pushed into it. The experience just doesn't go well. It ends up, like, driving them further apart from each other. It causes huge conflict or problems. Like, you can destroy a relationship with a threesome them 100%. So it's just so important to not pressure your partner into it and then.

Along those lines of not pressuring them. I think also the way that you start talking to your partner is so important. Like, my recommendation would be not to be going into it, like, do you want to have a threesome? Or like, I want to have a threesome. Or like, we should have a threesome. It's kind of like we talk about this with initiating sex where it's like, often just the question of do you want to have sex? Is actually a bad question because it feels like a binary. Like a, yes, no, I have to make a decision in this moment. So just like, sex where often we're asking, like, hey, would you be open to having sex? Like, sometime today or sometime this week? I think opening up the conversation about a threesome with more of a, what? You know, what would your openness be to something like this at some time in the future? And then even adding on to that, like, I'm not asking, like, about, like, I don't want to do this right now. I don't want to do this tonight. I'm not asking you to, like, commit to anything. I'm wondering if you're open to, like, us beginning the process of starting to explore what something like this could look like. And like, I would only want to do that if we went through this whole process of exploration and are both feeling good about it. I think that's really going to set yourself up for the most success. Because I think we hear from a lot of partners of people who have been asked about a threesome who are like, oh, my partner is coming in really hot and heavy saying they really want to have a threesome or they're asking me, I don't know what to say. And it's like, of course, if someone's coming at you of, hey, want to do this? Yes. No, that puts a lot of pressure on you. You're way, way more likely to just say no because it's like, well, that seems like a horrible idea versus, hey, are you open to like continuing to talk about this and like kind of exploring all the ways that we could or could not do this and what it might feel like? And then let's both see if we're open to it. Because I think otherwise what your partner is going to hear is like, oh, wow, my partner's been thinking about this for a long time. They're really sure. Like, why have they been thinking about this so much without me? And you feel really left out. So I think trying to open it up is just a, hey, would we both be open to talking about this more would be so helpful.

Okay, next step is to get clear on your boundaries. You have to talk about your boundaries beforehand in clear and specific detail. Like threesomes. Again, it's like that magical experience where nobody has to say anything. Like it just is not going to happen that way. And especially if you're in a long term relationship, like, you really have to get clear beforehand about what is and is not on the table to make sure that there aren't any hurt feelings or, you know, bad experiences. So here are some specific questions that you need to talk about beforehand. Like what specific sexual activities do you feel comfortable doing with a third person? What activities are on the table and what activities are off of the table? So for example, like, maybe intercourse feels totally fine, but you would not want your partner to engage in oral sex. Or maybe there's something about kissing that you're like, I just don't want to see my partner kissing another person.

Yeah, that feels way too intimate. Like this is about sex, not about intimacy.

Yeah. So really getting clear on like specific activities. Another question is, are the rules different for each partner, like, in general, I think the rules probably should be the same in the majority of circumstances. But like, there definitely can be situations where it's like, yeah, like, let's say it's a, you know, a male female couple and they're bringing in a woman, like a third woman. A very common boundary is like, okay, the two women can play with each other, but the man can't play with the woman. Right. So it's like, that might be a situation that you want to set up as well. But yeah. What are you allowed to do? What am I allowed to do? Are there differences there then? There's also like planning for potential negative situations. Like as much planning as you do beforehand about what's on and off the table, you still might get into the moment and say, like, ooh, I know I told you you could kiss her, but, oh, this is feeling really uncomfortable to actually see it. So you need to talk beforehand about, like, what happens? What will we do if in the middle of this threesome, one of us starts to feel uncomfortable or starts to feel jealous or want to stop?

Yeah. And what's that going to feel like if the other one is super into it and it's like, oh, my God, like, starting to get really excited and have a great time, like, are you going to be okay stopping?

I mean, that in and of itself is a great question to talk about with each other. Like, what? Honestly, what do you think it'll feel like to see me being intimate with another person? You know, so that's a good one. Then also, you might want to talk about, like, what do you want the third person to do after the threesome? So is it okay for them to hang out? Can there be some cuddling? Can there be some talking and aftercare? Do you want them to leave right away? Are you open to them spending the night? Like what? You know what? Do you want to have an after the threesome? A lot of people don't think about the after. They just think about the in the moment. Not like, oh, okay, we're done. Can you leave now?

I mean, I think this is. I mean, this is so. It is similar to like a one night stand. I think a lot of people, it's like, you know, before it starts, you're like, oh, my God, all I want is to hook up with this person. Or all I want to do is have sex. And like, the idea of a one night stand sounds so hot. I know, you know, when I was single so much, like, you want it so bad and then you do it. And the moment you finish, it's like, oh, now? Like, now what? Like, oh, yeah, I forgot about what it feels like afterwards.

Yeah. And then you might also want to talk about, are you open to repeat performances with the same person? Like, do you want to have multiple threesomes with them? Or is this a, like, one and done kind of thing, one time only?

Yeah. And like, along those lines, then is like, yeah, is this somebody that we know or someone that we will get to know because we've had a threesome with them and we're gonna then continue? Or is it like, this is really meant to be one night stand where it's like, we meet this person just for the sake of having a threesome and then, you know, there is no more connection after that.

Yeah.

Or like, what's it gonna be like if we, you know, we. Maybe we live in a small town? Like, what are we gonna do when we see that person again? What's that gonna be like? Like, get really realistic with yourself. Be honest with yourself about what it's gonna be like.

And I would also say, like, if you cannot agree on the boundaries, which is a very likely outcome, like, one person might really want to, like, you know, I really want to have intercourse, and the other person's like, I really do not want to see that happening. Right. So if you can't agree on the boundaries, either default to the person who has more boundaries or just don't do it.

Yeah. And I think if you are the person, if you are finding that your partner has more boundaries and you have less, I understand how tempting it might be to be like, okay, well, sure, we'll do it the way that you want to do it, but you have to really ask yourself, are you going to be okay with that? Because you're gonna have to still put in all that same amount of work to make the thing happen. And then if you're being honest and you're like, you know what? I might feel a little resentful afterwards that I didn't get to do what I really wanted to do. And ask yourself, is it worth feeling that?

Yeah.

Would you rather avoid the situation altogether, then open yourself up for that situation where you maybe resent your partner because you did it their way and you feel unfulfilled.

Okay, next, we have a great tip that I think so few people do. And this is such a mistake to skip this. Fantasize about the threesome first.

Yeah.

So fantasize about it on your own dirty. Talk about it with your partner when you Guys are having sex just the two of you, maybe even like, kind of role play, like pretend that there's another person there or pretend that you guys are like, you know, out looking for that person that you're going to hook up with.

I think that's a. I think that's really huge. I just want to. I just want to jump in right there because I think so many people gloss over that, especially because most of the reason I think that we think about threesomes so much is thanks to porn. And I think in porn, they are so often portrayed in this way where it's just like constant action. Everyone is getting action all the time. And I mean, I haven't done it in real life, but like most things, porn is super unrealistic. Right. I think in real life there are going to be kind of peaks and valleys of activity for each person. The reality is you can't constantly be stimulated.

Oh, yeah, somebody's always, all the time.

Someone is always going to be a little more left out or like, kind of like waiting or like, someone's gonna be like, oh, yeah, it would be nice if you were, you know, like, giving me oral sex or, like having sex with me right now. But, like, you're like, going down on this other person and, like, you know, our bodies aren't just lined up the way that I would need them to be. So kind of acting that out, like, okay, like, you're like, you're going down on her right now, and I'm like, trying to figure out how to have sex with you or have sex with her, you know, like, how is that?

I wouldn't dirty talk that, like, I'm.

Trying to figure out. No, no, no, not the dirty talk, but the, you know, but, but, yeah, just kind of. But the acting, acting it out a bit of like, hey, how is it actually going to feel to you in that moment where you're like, oh, okay, cool. I guess I'm probably just sitting here for 30 seconds or two minutes and, like, rubbing some backs. Well, you know, rubbing some backs and encouragement. Like, how is it? Am I. Am I good with this? Because, like, some people are like, might be like, you know what? Actually, I don't really like that idea of having to kind of sit here.

Yeah. So I think that the, the fantasizing about it does a couple of things. Like, it helps you get a little bit more of a sense of what it could be. Like, it helps you decide if this really is something that you do want to do or not. And it just is fun and sexy to play with in the moment. So a lot of couples have told us, you know, we enjoy talking dirty about it. Or another option here is, like, watch porn too, and, like, kind of pretend that that's. That's really what's happening in the moment, like, watching it together. But it just, like having some sort of way through dirty talk or role playing or watching porn or whatever it.

Is, but having just know that the porn that you're watching is probably not a realistic depiction of what your threesome is gonna look like.

Oh, yeah, of course. But, like, having some way of kind of dipping your toes in and getting a little bit more sense of, like, does this feel hot? Like, is this exciting? Or even another option could be, like, going out to bars and, like, looking at people and saying, like, oh, do you like, you know, do you like their vibe? Are you attracted to them? Would you have a threesome with that person? Like, just having some sort of way of dipping your toe in can be really helpful in getting clear about whether or not this is something that you actually want to do.

Yeah. And if you're finding that that process of whether it's the dirty talking about it, the kind of role playing it, or even the, like, going out and kind of like, hey, what do you think of her? What do you think of him? If that process is not super hot and super exciting to both of you, that's probably a sign that it is. It is not all of a sudden going to be great in real life if in. In like, you know, in. In fantasy land, it's not even enjoyable.

Yeah. And this is also something that you can do on your own too. Just fantasizing about it, like, while you're masturbating. Especially if your partner was the one who suggested it and you're like, I'm not sure. But yeah, just having some sort of way of playing with it can help give you a bit of clarity about, like, do I actually want to do this? Does this actually feel sexy to me? All right, now let's talk about finding your third.

This is what the real world is.

The rubber hits the road here. It is very hard because it's a tall order here. So you're looking for somebody who you are both attracted to. That person has to be attracted to both of you. And you have to have whatever specific boundaries the two of you have agreed on together. That person also has to be enthusiastically consenting to those boundaries, too. So it's like. It's a lot.

Yeah. I mean, no wonder only 2% of our audience is doing this on an ongoing basis. You know, the juice has to be worth the squeeze, and there's a lot of squeeze.

That's a very strange metaphor. So your best bet is to go through an app. Like, you can, you know, you can do a joint profile. There are specific apps that are, you know, specifically for people who are looking for threesome or, like, group sex experiences. So those are probably your best bet in general, as a therapist, I would say to avoid doing it with somebody who's in your circle or like a friend of yours. It can work. It for sure can. And for some people, it might feel safer to, like, know, this is somebody that I know and trust. But it's also like, it just introduces new dynamics into that friendship too. Like, it can for sure ruin a friendship. So you have to be really careful that it's someone that likes, you know, you trust. You trust that your friendship can weather whatever challenges the threesome might bring up. It also might be challenging, like, on a jealousy basis, if you're continuing to see this person and you see your partner, like, continuing to look at them.

Oh, like, they're talking more than they used to.

So again, you know, no hard and fast rules here, but in general, I would say it's probably best to, like, find somebody that you don't know.

Also, like, consider if it's, you know, amongst a friend group or an extended friend group, as much as it is important to you to keep it to yourselves, like all things amongst friends, there's a good likelihood that the secret might get out. People might start talking about it. So how are you going to feel about that? And especially how are you going to feel if something goes a little weird, not the way that you wanted it to. And are you going to feel comfortable managing the way friends are talking about that or seeing you?

Yeah. And once you have that person identified, you're also going to need to go through a lot of communication and planning with that person, too. So I think one of the. One of the places where people go wrong with threesomes is they think of this third person as this, like, magical, sexy unicorn. And that even is language that gets used a lot like our unicorn. You know, this person that's just going to come in and you're thinking so much about, like, your own boundaries and preferences and what you want to do and what you're looking for, that a lot of times couples forget that that third person is also a human being with their own sets of, like, boundaries and preferences and desires and needs.

Yeah, I think people Are like, oh, well, if you're down to have sex with both of us, you just must be down for whatever. Wait, no, they're not a sex doll. Yeah.

They're not a plaything for the two of you to play with and then discard whenever you want to. And like that, that is a hard role as well. Like, yes, it is easier in a lot of ways to like, ah, well, it's not my relationship. I don't have to deal with the repercussions. But it also can feel really dehumanizing to like have this intimate experience with two people. And then they're like, okay, we're done with you, get out of here.

Yeah, they're like, these people only hit me up when they want sex. Yeah. It's like hooking up with someone, like, being in a kind of situationship where it's like, huh, like, we don't really talk unless like he or she. His warning and then they're texting.

Yeah. So you need to be really careful and considerate and kind. Like, this is still a human being. They need to be treated with care and compassion and respect and all of those things too. So we highly recommend meeting up beforehand to talk through what are the boundaries, what are the guidelines, what kind of experience are we all looking to have here? And like, and also talking about safety. How are we going to prevent pregnancy if there are, you know, penises and vaginas involved? What are we going to do to prevent against sti. And so of course, like, I know that this doesn't sound sexy. This sounds like, oh my God, this is so awkward. This is so much work.

But like, yeah, it's not, it's not the sexy part.

It's not the sexy part. But it's also extremely necessary and important to do too. So this is, again, it's like, this is kind of the rubber hits the road type of thing of you really gotta, if you want to do it, you've got to do it. Right. Our next tip is, is to consider easing your way into it. So a lot of people, again, just want to like, jump right in and just have this full experience.

But this is the same mistake people make with anal sex, I think, where it's like, it feels really taboo. It feels like a big ask. And so.

So you're like, let's do it.

Okay. Let's just do it and get it over with. And it's like, if that's the way that you're going to do it, I can almost guarantee you it's going to Be a bad experience such that you're not going to. One or both of you are not going to want to do it again. And it's like, yeah, no, it is. It does take longer to ease into figuring out how these things work. But by doing that, you're actually setting yourself up for more long term enjoyment of it.

So I would even consider, like, maybe you just have a first time where you're just making out and kind of playing around with each other. Or maybe it's like we can touch each other and make out and be naked, but there's not going to be any penetration involved or something like that. Like, like you can take baby steps the same way that you might have taken baby steps when you started having sex with your partner. Like, it doesn't have to be this all or nothing, one night only kind of thing. The next tip is to stay sober. And this is another one that I know sounds like a party pooper type of thing. But being drunk, being high can really impair your judgment. They can make communication so much more difficult. It can make it harder to be in tune with your own comfort levels.

If you make any of those emotions that you might or might not feel feel more heightened.

Yeah. So I think you're going to have a way better experience and drastically minimize the chances of something going wrong or feelings being hurt if you're sober, especially at least for that very first experience with somebody new. And finally, emphasize aftercare. So we kind of mentioned in the like, getting clear on boundaries section that like, well, what do we want to have happen afterwards after we're done, you know, playing with each other? So I think before you have the threesome, make that specific plan for what you're going to do afterwards. Like, are you open to letting that third person spend the night? What if you guys want to go for round two, do you just go.

Straight to the charcuterie plate?

What?

You know, have a nice charcuterie plate ready to go afterwards so everyone can replenish.

Why charcuterie?

I don't know, Meat and cheese. Everyone loves old meat and cheese.

When have we ever had a charcuterie plate after sex?

I'm just joking. You know, everyone's like, oh, make me a sandwich or whatever. Have a charcuterie plate. Wow. It really caught her off guard.

That's our final tip. Have a charcuterie plate afterwards.

Yeah.

Why don't you have a great sexual experience? Have a charcuterie plate.

Yeah, it's not gonna be awkward. It's not gonna be awkward at all. Like hey, babe, I went to Costco, got this massive charcuterie plate. Let's dig in. I know, I'm hungry.

That's so random. Okay, Sanders, tips for grade three seven. Have a massive Costco sized charcuterie plate ready to go.

I mean, I was, I was 99% joking with that, but I think you took that really seriously. I like it. I like.

Was just like such a random example. You're so cute to replay. I don't think I want to have like little floppy sweaty cured meats after a threesome.

What would you want to eat after a threesome? You know, we never talked about this, so let's do it now. So if we were to have a threesome, would you want to eat afterwards?

Probably not. I'd probably want to go to sleep afterwards, I'm thinking.

But like, if you had to eat, what would you want to eat? What snacks?

A burger.

A burger?

Yeah, maybe like a burger and fries.

All right, burger and fries. Have that ready to go.

Okay, so you know, aftercare, you're sure cuter. You play aftercare. Do it. Have some aftercare. I can't rebound from that.

But y' all let me jump. Let me jump in for bedazza. What she is meaning to say is. Yeah, I mean, like, what do you want that to look like? Because remember, this can be especially the time when sex can go from sex to like really like adding intimacy. Like, do you want to have that element of intimacy between the three of you? Do you want that you're, you know, the third person to spend the night. You guys want to be cuddling afterwards? Maybe you want to be able to have a private check in with your partner right afterwards. Like, like, do you have the ability to do that? See how they're doing? So these are kind of the things that you want to think through and be ready for when it comes to that aftercare.

Okay, so now that we've gone through all of these steps, it's time for the million dollar question. Have we ever had a threesome? Are we in the middle of having a threesome right now as we record?

Well, you're petting Maggie right now, but I'm not. I'm a little too far away to pet either of you. No, we have not. I was very close to having a threesome when I was like 18 though. There was a plan to have a threesome and then it didn't quite materialize.

Let's be real, that was never gonna happen. 18 year old boy, every 18 year old boy thinks that he was on the verge of having a.

Well, no. I mean, it was, like, explicit. Like, we were talking. It was. Was. Yeah, but whatever. There was probably a lot of talk and the action was never going to happen.

But we have never had a threesome with each other.

No. Have you had one?

Kind of, but not like a full. Not a full on. I've had like a.

Will we, won't we?

No, I mean, we've done, like, some making out and some touching.

Oh, okay.

There was actually four of us and, you know, one of the people who was involved. We're still very good friends to this day. But no, it was not a.

Well, actually, I guess I have had something similar to that.

Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't call that a threesome. There wasn't, like, actual sex.

Yeah, well, I guess, yeah, we've done the exact same thing because I've had that exact same situation where there were multiple people and there was, like, some kissing and groping, but then there were too many people for it to actually go any further than that.

We have talked about it in our own relationship. There has been some curiosity at certain points in our relationship, but when we really get down to the nitty gritty of, like, okay, how would this work and what would we actually be comfortable with and how do we think this would actually feel? We've both just been like, I don't know. It doesn't.

It.

It loses the appeal for me personally. And I think that that is the case for a lot of people. Like, the idea of a threesome is very hot. And I think, like, a lot of us, like, if we had this magic situation that just dropped out of the sky where it could happen and there would be no repercussions, and it was just easy and everybody was happy. I think most people would think it's pretty hot and want to, like, want to do it. But when you really get into the nitty gritty of it, it's like, ooh, this is actually quite complicated.

Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah. So, I mean, we've had that conversation. I came into the conversation that we had about this having had a very similar conversation in the serious relationship I was in before you, that the conversation really went exactly the same way. So I felt like I had pretty thoroughly explored this idea, you know, like, I had really talked through with that person. Both of us were on the same page that, like, yeah, in theory, it sounds super hot. It sounds super fun. Like, you know, we talked about how we would do it, like, you know, whether it would be with another woman. With another man. We were both like, yeah, like, we were totally on the same page about how we would want to do it. But then talking through, okay, let's talk about logistically how we would manage this, being in a long term committed relationship where we really care about each other, you know, acknowledging that, you know, we do feel some jealousy when, you know, if we see someone talking with someone else. And like, what is that going to be like in the moment? What's it going to be like if it's starting and then one of us isn't feeling great about it? All that kind of stuff. And it kind of pretty quickly was like, huh, this seems like more trouble. Wow, that was a hard one to say. This seems like more trouble. Oh my God. That's more the way the gymnastics my tongue has to do between those two words. Trouble, more. It's not trouble. It's the transition from more to trouble. It just felt like more trouble than it was worth. So it ended up just being like a fun thing to kind of like talk about. I feel like the same with us. Like, it's fun to like, talk about it. Maybe a little dirty talk or fantasizing about it, knowing that, yeah, in real life, it's just like it's going to be way more work to make it happen for a kind of unknown amount of payoff and a lot of possible downside.

There was one other thing that you said that I wanted to ask you about. You said in the past you were considering you would have a threesome with another man. As a very straight man. What was the thought process for you?

I mean, we talked about who we would have a threesome with. We were both on the same page that both of our preference would be doing it with another woman. And so, like, yeah, we were very much on the same page of like, what type of threesome it would look like.

So, yeah, to kind of, to sum it all up, like, I think the idea of a threesome is very sexy. It's definitely a turn on. It's definitely a little bit of a fantasy.

It's definitely one of those most common fantasies for, for men and women.

Oh, yeah, for sure.

Most people. That is a more common fantasy.

Yeah. For me personally, like, once I've gotten down into the nitty gritty of like, okay, how. What would we have to do? What sort of work would be involved? What would it feel like? Like, actually, I think for me it's more just the work involved and getting it set up. Like, I feel pretty confident in our ability to like navigate the experience in the moment. But it's all that work of like, like finding another person and figuring out what are the boundaries and how do we communicate it to them? And it's just like, I'm like, oh, it's just a lot. So for me, it just. Yeah, it hasn't felt like. Yeah, it just hasn't really felt worth it. But again, I do think, like, it's a very common fantasy. I think there are plenty of people who've had great experiences with it. I do think it's something that's like, worth people exploring. It's just. Yeah, it's a lot more work than it might seem like in your head right now.

Yeah. Early in our relationship, I think, you know, maybe like it was more 50, 50. Like, it feels like a lot of work for a questionable payoff. Combined with it also feels like it could be an opening of Pandora's box. And I don't know how I'm going to feel. I don't know how you're going to feel. I don't know what this is going to be like, what that's going to be like. Now, after being together for so long, I feel really confident that, like, that we could do it really well and like, communicate really well and not feel super jealous. I have, like, no worries about that. It just legit feels like a lot of work.

Let's wrap things up with some funny, awkward, hilarious, maybe a little sexy threesome stories. So we turned to our Instagram audience. We asked for some good ones.

And I'm gonna let Vanessa read all of these. Okay.

A few minutes into a threesome with two brothers, one of them said, nope, can't do this, this is weird, and left.

Can't blame that brother.

There's no way in hell I could have a threesome with one of my siblings.

Yeah, that seems like only, only good for the non sibling third person.

I was apparently enjoying it too much and the guy's wife commented, wow, chill out.

I mean, you got be ready. You gotta be ready for that. Like, there could be some judgment, there could be some calling out. Like, I mean, like we said, it's, you know, you gotta be able to communicate and be honest in the moment, so. Because I, I think that that's something that, like, we already kind of touched on this, but people just do not consider, like, you know, think about when you're having sex with your partner every now and then, like you, or both of you, or one of you like, gets pretty, like really excited and it kind of comes out of nowhere. And like that could very well happen between your partner and the other person. And what is that going to be like? You know, sometimes it can be like one person kind of emerges as the star of the show and it's like if, what's that going to be like if it kind of becomes more one sided.

Had a threesome with my bestie and my ex boyfriend. They ended up getting married.

Can't blame him for that. I mean it sounds like you kind of made this happen.

I bestie and ex boyfriend.

I don't mean that like this is a bad thing. It sounds like no judgment.

We were talking about romantic earlier. There you go. There's your romantic threesome. And how funny that that's now like their story. Whenever people are like, oh, how did you meet? That should be the story. I wonder if they met having a threesome.

Yeah, I wonder if that's how they met or if like they knew each other already.

Probably I'm pretend that that's how they met in the middle of a threesome. Like, oh wait, you're her bestie. Oh yeah, you're the ex.

Okay, well actually I can't, I can't tell though.

They for sure did not meet in the middle of a threesome.

Was it a current boyfriend at the time or was it an ex boyfriend? Well, I mean now, now it's an ex boyfriend. There's no way to know. Were they together when they had the threesome or was it not together?

I think, I think they would have said my then boyfriend.

Who knows, There might not have been room in the question box.

Okay. I was up under my wife, he slipped out of her and stabbed me in the eye with his penis.

I mean you could go to the hospital because of a threesome. It is possible. It sounds like, you know, there was no mention of a serious injury, but there could absolutely be a sex injury. And you know, I don't know. Do you have like liability, do you have like insurance to cover that at your house at like a slip and fall? I don't know.

Slip and fall.

Better, better be ready. Who knows what could happen?

I joined my friends in bed at their destination wedding on their wedding night.

That's some devotion. Devotion to the threesome.

That is some serious devotion to the threes.

I mean I'm.

A wedding night threesome. Can you imagine? Like people are nervous enough as it is about their own wedding nights, but then like another third person there involved in it.

I mean, I wonder, was this planned or was this spontaneous? I'm sorry, I wonder, was this planned or was this spontaneous? Who knows? Well, I hope that everyone was happy.

All right, and here's our last story. My personal favorite. Three male friends in high school wanted to hook up and invited me over. I got there and said, okay, I'll do two of you, but not three. I made them do push ups and crunches and flex in poses to compete for which two I would pick. I don't know why I did this, but it sure did feel powerful.

Classic high school move. Classic.

I just have such a good mental image of three. Like, pimply, awkward, 17 year old.

I'll do anything.

I'll do anything.

Tell me what to do.

Was this you? Was this your situation? Were you almost at a threesome at 18, but you lost the push up content?

No, there. There wasn't. It was. It was somewhat similar to the situation, but there were no push ups or.

It was kind of just like flexing in poses. I'm dead imagining that, like some little guy, like, flexing his biceps, like, pick me, pick me. I want to be one of the two.

So good.

I love how she's like, I don't know why I even did this in the first place, but sure did feel good. All right, well, that wraps up our threesome episode. Hope this entertained you. Come on over to Instagram and give us a follow there. If you are not part of our community already, if you listen to this.

And you do have a. A threesome, tell us how it goes. We want.

Oh, yeah. Report back, please.

Give us all the details. We would love to live vicariously through you.

We're at Vanessa and Xander. Xander with an X.

All right, well, that's it for today's episode of Pillow Talks. Thank you so much for listening. Join us again next week when we talk about flirting. Three.

Is you and you and me. One, two, three.