EPISODE 179: All Your Female Orgasm Questions: Answered!

The idea of touching your own body to bring it pleasure. That is such a beautiful concept that's so loving and so kind. Like, I want to experience pleasure in my body. I want my body to feel good. I want to know, like, what my body needs. Hello, and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Zander Marin. I'm a sex Therapist with over 20.

Years of experience, and I'm just a regular. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.

Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. Today, we are taking it back and answering some of your most frequent, frustrating challenges. About the very first topic that I became known for in my career as a sex therapist, which is female orgasm. So way back in the day, BuzzFeed called me the orgasm whisperer. I've been interviewed as a female orgasm expert by, oh, Oprah's magazine, the New York Times, Goop, and Vogue. But before we get into any of your questions, I want to tell you a little bit about my own journey with orgasm, because I know people make a lot of assumptions about our sex life. With me as a sex therapist, I actually really struggled with orgasm. So I figured out how to make myself orgasm pretty early on, but I could not figure out how to get there with a partner. And I remember my very first, you know, starting to become sexually active with my boyfriend. Like, it was a really great circumstance. We loved each other. We cared about each other. Like, I knew that he cared about wanting me to have a positive experience. But I really remember that disconnect of, like, you know, us starting to have sex those first few times. And I'm talking about intercourse and feeling like this is not happening. And why is it not happening? Especially because it felt, you know, relatively straightforward for me to get there on my own. So it felt very embarrassing and really shameful. Like, I started feeling like some something's wrong with me. And especially like, I know that there are a lot of women out there who have never had an orgasm at all. And a lot of those women feel like something's wrong with me. I'm broken. For me, like, being able to do it on my own but not being able to do it with a partner, even though I knew, like, my body is capable of this experience, I can do it, there was still this feeling of like, whoa, something must really be wrong with me if I can't get there with a partner. Like, what is this disconnect here? And so for me at the time, I remember very quickly, very early on, like making this decision of I just need to fake it. Because even in this, like, loving, trusting relationship, it felt too embarrassing to say. Like, I'm not having an orgasm and I don't know what to tell you to do to make me orgasm. Like, nothing seems to be working. It felt too embarrassing to say that. It just felt so much easier to fake it. And so I fell into this pattern that I think so many women do of faking just because it seems easier and like faking in a lot of different circumstances, like, you know, long term relationships, but also, you know, more casual, like dating relationships. Like at the beginning, you know, when you're with somebody new, it just feels so much easier to fake. You, like, want. Want it to feel like the two of you are connecting. There's this chemistry, things are flowing. And as a woman, I wanted to feel like. It feels weird to say, like, I wanted to feel easy because, like, I didn't want to feel easy. We have a whole bunch, a whole bunch of other crap that we're taught about, like, don't seem easy, don't be a slut. But like, I also wanted, you know, once I had decided to have sex with somebody, like, I wanted it to seem like we were clicking. Like there was chemistry. It was just natural and simple. And so it just felt so much easier for so many reasons. But I also really started to dig myself into a very deep hole that started to feel harder and harder and harder to get out of. Like now it's like, you know, okay, a few years have gone by. I've been faking for so long, I faked, you know, in every relationship. Like, how do I stop doing that? And then it started to get to the point of like, well, now I feel like I'm, you know, it's kind of like embarrassingly old to say I've been faking it. And then, you know, I'm 18 years old, starting to do, you know, you know, research projects, getting an internship in the sex therapy field, like entering this field. And I'm still faking for many years. Like there was this whole other layer of imposter syndrome on top of that. Like, how can I be, you know, a sex therapist pursuing this career, wanting to go back to grad school. And I still haven't, like, figured this out on my own. So it, it caused Me a lot of distress, like, looking back at it now, especially now that I have gotten to the point where I can very easily readily orgasm. Like, it's so, so wild to look back at that and imagine all of those years of feeling like something was horribly wrong with me, feeling like it was hopeless, like I was probably never, ever going to get there. But fortunately, I finally had this experience with a partner that I. That just. It was the final straw for me. It was like, I am not faking anymore. I cannot do this anymore. The next person that I am with, I am promising myself here and now, I am not gonna fake. And lo and behold, that next person was Xander.

Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Though, to be really clear, that is not to say that we didn't have our own struggles with orgasm at the beginning because. Because, you know, Vanessa just described what it was like for her with partners in the past of, you know, wanting it to be easy. And I mean, that was very much my experience. Being sexually active too, especially in a relationship, is like, you know, wanting sex to be this kind of, like, easy, breezy thing, this natural thing. And it had always felt so natural, and I put that in quotes, so natural with past partners. I now understand many, many, many women have a similar experience to Vanessa where they also want things to be natural and easy. And, you know, when you're having intercourse, which greatly prioritizes male pleasure over female pleasure, that doesn't leave a lot of space for, you know, the woman to, you know, have it be nice and easy unless maybe they exaggerate a little bit about what is going on. And so when we first started having sex regularly, I was like, you know, huh? Like, yeah, why isn't this just so easy? And it took us a bit of time of kind of figuring out, okay, how do we actually, you know, while having intercourse, while having foreplay, how do we really make sure that we are on similar timelines, that Vanessa is getting as much pleasure and as many orgasms as. As I am. And I'm so glad that we went through that because our sex life is so much better. So, so, so much better because of that. And, man, like, it's just crazy to think about what it could have been like, you know, what it could have been like if that hadn't happened. Have you gotten hit orgasm rock bottom before me?

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I'm sure that you were like, okay, I'm like, in this field, I've got to be able to find the answer easily, right?

Oh, yeah, absolutely. But I just wasn't, you know, I'd find stuff that was like, oh, well, you just have to relax. Don't think about it so much. You know, you're just up in your head and I'm like, okay, great. But like, what do I actually do? What are the actual techniques that I do to help me get there? And so that advice, like, it actually made me feel so much worse because it made me feel like it was just this super simple thing like, oh, stop worrying about it so much. It's like, well, first of all, that's actually not an easy thing to do to just, like, stop thinking about something. But also, like, there were times where I felt like, okay, I'm not thinking about it, or I am so relaxed right now, but, like, it's still not happening. So it just drove me nuts.

Yeah, I mean, as I'm hearing you describe that. That advice of don't think about it sounds like such horrible advice. Because then it's like, almost the advice is like, asking you to kind of, like, take yourself out of having a sexual experience with the other person. Like, okay, what if you're. If I'm not supposed to think about it, what are you supposed to just, like, lie there?

Yeah.

Like, let it happen to you? Like, what would that be like? You know, if. If you were doing that and I'm having. Then it's like, I'm having sex too. I'd be like, hey, babe. Like, where. Where'd you go? Yeah, where are you? What's going on? Is everything okay? It just seems like a recipe for disaster, you know? The only thing that I could see that advice kind of serving is like, yeah, well, we don't really have an answer. And so it's better for women to just, like, not think about it. Slash. Like, don't care about it so much. Slash. Eventually, just give up.

So once I finally figured out how to do this whole orgasming with a partner thing, I was able to figure out some freaking techniques all on my own. Even though it sucked and it was really hard. Like, I figured it out now. The natural thing for me was, like, I have to share this. I need to share this information with other women because I spent so long looking for it and found nothing and felt so frustrated and sad and broken. So, like, I want to share all these tools and techniques and resources. So I ended up creating Finishing School, which was the very first online course that teaches women how to orgasm. That was in 2015. It was actually the second online course I ever created. The first one, like, I. I knew I wanted to teach female orgasm, but for some reason, I had it in my head that women would not want to buy, like, a female orgasm course too much. So I made a female pleasure course. So I did that first, and then I was like, screw it. I need to make the orgasm course. So that was 2015. Over the years, it was featured and reviewed in Refinery 29, Glamour, Bustle, Huffington Post, Lifehacker, Elle, Marie Claire, Cosmopolitan, Prevention Magazine, so many more. Thousands of women went through it and had successful experience, experiences and Just raved about the way that it changed their lives. And then two years ago we made the decision to close it, which was an extremely hard decision. Like to go from. This was the thing that I was known for, the thing that.

Like the bread butter.

Yeah. The foundation of our business. To then have to make this decision to close it was really, really difficult.

Yeah. Why the heck did we do that?

So we'll share that story at the end of the episode. But what I do want to say right now is it's actually back open.

Ho ho.

If you want to go over to vmtherapy.com orgasm you can check out Finishing school.

We just couldn't stay away in all her glory.

So we will get into your questions now and we'll loop back and tell you the rest of the story of why the hell it is open again now.

So we put up a question box on Instagram to ask women all of their orgasm related questions. So I will do my best to impersonate these women asking these questions.

Wait, no, I don't know if we want that.

Do I need to orgasm?

Your lady voice is so weird.

Well, how else am I going to. How else I have to falsetto it because if I was able to like speak in that high of a register normally, then I wouldn't have the voice that I have now.

Maybe she's asking me the questions.

All right, impersonation. So we're really going to start at the beginning with this question which is like, all right, like, I know you're talking about orgasm, but like, do I really have to orgasm? Like, what if I just don't?

So I'll say my answer is no, you don't need to. I'm not going to ever tell anybody they need to do anything when it comes to sex or relationships. But I do wonder why is it that you're asking this question in the first place? Yeah, so some people will say, like, I'll be totally honest here. Like I, you know, this is a topic that I love. I am a female orgasm expert. I love having orgasms. I think they're incredible. But I also think that we have gotten to this place as a society where we put way too much emphasis on orgasm. Like, the reality of orgasm is that this is, you know, two to 20 seconds at the end of typically, you know, at the end of like what could be hours spent together. And there's so much pleasure that you can experience with your partner. So much pleasure and connection and joy in all of those non orgasmic moments. So like, yeah, the orgasm is fun, but that's not the one and only thing. So if you're somebody who's like, you know, for me, just having a pleasurable experience is more important. I actually get stressed out about, you know, working up to the orgasm or my orgasms, like, don't feel that much more pleasurable than, like, you know, just the pleasure I feel throughout the experience with my partner. Like, sure, every body is different. Like, it's your choice. If you want to have them, you don't have to have them. But there are a lot of women who feel like they're not allowed to because we get taught all of this crap about our bodies, how we're supposed to show up during sex. You know, we're taught things like our genitals are weird and smelly and gross. So, like, why would I want to let my partner, like, put their head down there or use their hands on me? We're taught to believe that we're supposed to prioritize other people's experiences over our own. So a lot of us struggle in the moment with, like, oh, my God, my partner's focusing on me. I'm taking too much time. They're probably bored. They're probably hating this. Like, I can't do it. And we're also, like, you know, the way that we are taught to have sex in male, female relationships, like, really heavily prioritizes male pleasure. And so a lot of us are like, well, you know, if intercourse is the thing, like, and that's what we're doing, and I'm just not having orgasms, Like, I guess that that's just a me problem, not an us problem. So I would get really curious and ask yourself, like, why is it that you feel like you don't want to orgasm?

Yeah, I'm also curious. I mean, if there's a differentiation between, like, do I need to orgasm? If you know what orgasm is, and maybe you reliably have them on your own. But you're saying it's complicated in partnered sex. And, you know, I already got so much pleasure out of that. I'm, like, not feeling like I need to be so focused on that orgasm outcome. But I do wonder if there's maybe a kind of different answer or it's a different scenario for someone that's, like, never had an orgasm and asking, but do I really need to if it.

Was somebody who's never had one? I mean, again, as a therapist, I'm very hard pressed to, like, say anybody needs to do any one thing. But, like, I do think Orgasm is such a cool experience. Like, it's so freaking cool that our bodies do this. I do think it's something that everybody should experience at least once. And again, like, if it for some reason is not your thing, that's okay. But, like, just knowing what your body is capable of, I think is really amazing. So I would encourage you to explore.

Well, I'm not a therapist. I mean, I would say, yeah, orgasm is pretty cool. I agree. I would. I will just say, yeah, it's something that you should experience if you are a. You know, if you are willing to. If you're willing to try, because it's pretty awesome. You know, don't knock it till you try it. And I would even say don't knock it until you try it a couple of times, because the first one. The first couple ones might not be quite as good as. As, you know, the next couple ones. So I think it's definitely something to try. And once you have had that experience, then sure, if you really don't want to, then go ahead with that. But, you know, at least. Right. It's really cool what our bodies are capable of. And. Yeah. Is an experience that it's hard for me to explain to someone that has never had one, like, what that experience actually is like. But it's really fucking good. That's why people talk about them.

Yeah. So orgasm doesn't need to define your entire sexual experience. It's not the one and only thing, but it's definitely a very cool thing.

All right, now we're just coming in hard. Do I need to masturbate in order to learn how to orgasm? It just feels kind of gross and embarrassing.

Yes, you do. So I have worked with thousands of women teaching them how to have their first orgasms alone and their first orgasms with partners. And I think I can think of maybe two or three women who were successfully able to orgasm with a partner before being able to orgasm on their own. We just need to get to know our own bodies. And it's so much easier to explore your own body and figure out what kind of stimulation does it. Like, what do you respond to? What do you need? It's a lot easier when you're on your own rather than this. A lot of us feel this performance anxiety when we're in front of a partner. Is my partner getting bored? Is their hand starting to cramp or their tongue starting to hurt? You know, when you're on your own, it's a lot easier. When it comes to masturbation, it's very important to recognize that we have been taught to be very ashamed of it. And I think women get much harsher messages growing up about masturbation than boys and men do. Like, with boys, it's a sort of, like, boys will be boys, you know. Yeah.

The. Like, those sheets are gonna be all crusty.

Yeah. And all that. But, like, with girls, we think of it as this very. Like, only bad girls masturbate. Like, that's a very shameful thing to do. Like, I. You know, I remember growing up masturbating and just thinking, like, this is a horrible, horrible secret that I can never admit to anybody. And so most of us, like, don't grow up exploring our own bodies. And I truly think that masturbation is the reason why we. One of the reasons why we have such a big orgasm gap. Because men grow up touching themselves, figuring out what works for them, understanding what they need. Like, they have this experience with their body that the vast majority of us women just don't have. So I would really recommend that you consider, like, why is it that you think masturbation is gross and embarrassing? That's just what you were taught to believe. But I think that there's something really sacred and beautiful about masturbating just about touching our body anywhere. Like, let's take it out of the genitals. Like, the idea of touching your own body to bring it back, pleasure, like, that is such a beautiful concept. That's so loving and so kind. Like, I want to experience pleasure in my body. I want my body to feel good. I want to know, like, what my body needs. And I will tell you, like, learning how to get yourself off is such an empowering experience. Like, even if you are one of those, you know, two or three women who can orgasm with their partner before they can orgasm on their own, like, if it's not an empowering experience because you're not the one doing it, you know, and it's like, well, and even what if you break up with that partner now? You have to start all over again at square one, Right? So I. I think that masturbation is incredible, and I think it's something that every woman should experience.

Yeah, absolutely. And, I mean, I think the interesting thing about masturbation and learning how to orgasm is, you know, I think there's so many women that feel like, oh, well, like, you know, it's so easy for men, or they just, like, naturally know how to do it. And I don't know about all men. I know for me, it still took me a while to figure out how to actually, like, masturbate successfully and how to have an orgasm. Like, it probably took me, like, a year of fooling around with myself because no one sat me down to teach me how to do it. I don't know, maybe I was a sheltered child, and I hadn't, like, seen, seen or heard of, like, what the appropriate way to do it was, but, you know, I feel like it was.

What were you doing?

I don't know. I mean, I was, like, touching myself and doing things, but it was like, you know, I didn't know about lube, and I didn't, you know, like, oh, I spit on my hand. Like, you know, that. That's kind of good. But it. It was just. I don't know, it took me a while of, like, trying different things. And, you know, I think what I didn't know understand was, like, oh, I need, like, this repetition, you know, this, like, repetitive movement.

I like how you're doing it right now as we're recording. Wait. And in the air. In the air. In the air. Not. Not actually masturbating as we record.

Thank you. Thank you for clarifying that. But, yeah, I mean, the reason I share that is just because. Yeah. I mean, it's like once I started really figuring out how to do it, then it was like, oh, okay, yeah, now. Now I can figure out how to do this really quickly and efficiently and really get down to it. But, yeah, it's hard to imagine what it would have been like to start being sexually active with someone without ever having that experience of doing that. It would have felt, like, kind of confusing and scary and like, an overwhelming, I think, to be getting into that with someone and, like, not really even know what I need. Like, what I needed or wanted. That would have just been a weird experience. And I. And so, yeah, it's. I can imagine that that is a really tricky experience for a lot of women to be in because a lot of women are going into sex like that. All right, let's move on. What is the connection between squirting and orgasm?

Vanessa, Great question. Okay, so first, let's define squirting for people who have not heard the term before. So it is the release of fluid out of the urethra. The most important thing to know about squirting is that squirting and orgasm are two completely separate things. So we've been seeing squirting in the media, like, in porn, a lot more often in the last, like, five to ten years.

Having a moment.

It's definitely having a moment. And so a Lot of women think that now this is like the new expectation for them.

And a lot of men think.

And a lot of men think.

Men think like, oh, well, you know, I need to make her squirt if I'm, like, really doing it right. Like, the only way for her to really have, like, the full ass orgasm is the squirt and orgasm.

Full ass orgasm sounds like something different.

Yeah, that could be something different.

But yeah, I mean, I think the appeal of it for a lot of people is like, it's so visual, like, ah, you can see evidence. That must mean it was really good. You get an A plus.

Yeah. It's like analogous to what happens to a man. Yeah.

But like I was saying, these are actually two totally different processes. So you can squirt without having an orgasm and you can orgasm without squirting. Now, with squirting, we actually don't have a ton of research on, like, is it possible for every woman to squirt? It might be, but currently, like, they're only a small percentage of women do squirt. And a lot of women who do squirt don't do it every single time. It's not like a reliable thing that happens. Of the women who do squirt, some women say, like, it's a little enjoyable, but I would actually say the majority that I've talked to say it's more of an annoyance or an inconvenience. You know, there can be a lot of fluid that gets left on the bed. A lot of women say, like, I don't actually feel any sensation with the squirting. So it just kind of feels like a little bit of an annoyance. So again, I just want to keep harping on the, like, it's not an orgasm. And you, if you feel like you had an orgasm but you didn't squirt, like, I hear so many women who are like, oh, it must not really have been an orgasm if I didn't squirt.

No, it's an orgasm.

It's an orgasm. So if you want to explore squirting and see, like, is this something your body is capable of? Is it an enjoyable, exciting experience for you? Like, by all means, go ahead. But what I really want to caution against is feeling like you have to squirt, like it's this new bar that needs to be met. Because that's absolutely not true. But if you are interested to learn more about squirting, we have a different, different podcast episode about it. It's episode 49.

All right, what is the difference between different orgasms, like clitoral orgasm, G spot orgasm, cervical orgasm. Is one better than the other? Is there, like an orgasm hierarchy?

Oh, boy. So this is where I get really, really fired up. So first, we need to take a little bit of a scientific detour to talk about anatomy. So the most sensitive part of the human body of any gender is the clitoris. The clitoris is actually the only organ that exists solely for the purpose of pleasure. The penis exists for, like, biological, like, reproductive reasons as well.

And for peeing.

And for peeing. But the clitoris is literally just for pleasure. So what most people don't realize is that all fetuses, like, we all start off being like, the same gender or kind of agender up until we're about 11 to 12 weeks in the womb. And at that time, our cells start to split and create different structures. So these are actually what are called homologous structures. And what I like to compare it to is like a ball of clay. You can take a ball of clay and you can mold it into a cup, or you can take that same ball of clay, you can mold it into a bowl. So it's the same ball of clay, but two different shapes that you end up with. And this is what happens with the clitoris and the penis. They're made of the same tissues. They just get made into different shapes based on whether that fetus is going to be born female or born as a male.

And then ultimately, clitorises. Clitori end up with way more capability to feel good than penises do.

Yeah, clitorises have 8 to 10,000 nerve endings, whereas the entire penis only has 2 to 3,000 nerve ending.

Ah, damn it.

So the reason why I love to geek out about the clitoris is because, let's be honest, like, the clitoris doesn't actually get a lot of respect. Like, whenever you hear the clitoris talked about, it's in this sort of like, oh, the clitoris. Like, oh, it's so hard to find. Does it even exist? Where is it? Why do women need this, like, extra stimulation when the reality is, like, that is the most sensitive part of the human body of any gender. And so when it comes to orgasm, like, the most surefire path to an orgasm if you have a clitoris is with your clitoris. Just like, if you have a penis, the most surefire path to an orgasm is stimulating your penis. So the cool thing about orgasms is that we can have them from a whole different kind of variety of stimulation all over our bodies. Like, a lot of orgasm actually happens in the brain. And so we can have orgasms. Like, people have reported having orgasms from nipple play, from anal play. People have corgasms, like orgasms. When you're working out, like, your abs, you can have like a spontaneous orgasm from breathing, from running. People can do it from breathing. People have orgasms in their sleep. So, like, we can have orgasms in a ton of different ways. But if we're talking again about, like, what is the most reliable surefire path to an orgasm and it's through the clitoris or through the penis. Now what gets me really fired up is you see all these people these days talking about, like, cervical orgasms and vaginal orgasms, penetration orgasms, G spot orgasms. And the way that these get talked about is as if they are a better kind of orgasm. Like, clitoris is like the clitoral orgasm. Like, you're not evolved enough, you're not sex positive enough, you're not like, spiritual enough. Unless you're having like a penetration orgasm, a cervical orgasm. And that is complete and utter horseshit. So if you are curious about your cervix and you want to see, like, can I feel pleasure in my cervix? By all means, go ahead.

Know that many people feel the opposite of pleasure when their cervix is stimulated.

A lot of people feel discomfort when their cervix is stimulated. A lot of people feel pain when their cervix is stimulated.

Yeah, so some people might enjoy it, but don't pain. Push yourself to endure pain. That's only going to drive you to not want sex.

Think of it in exactly the same way as like, stimulating your knee. If you want to see if you can have a knee orgasm, go for it. Feel all the pleasure that you can in your knee. Like, I'm, I'm totally on board for that. But just be realistic in understanding. Like, for the vast majority of people in the vast majority of circumstances, like, stimulating your knee isn't going to be nearly enough stimulation to feel pleasure, much less have an orgasm. The same thing is true for the cervix, for your vagina, for your G spot. Like, sure, go ahead and play with it. Feel whatever sensation you can. But it is highly unlikely that you are going to have an orgasm that way. I do want to talk like, a little bit more about the G spot in particular, though, because a lot of people think of it as like this secret spot. Like, all you have to do is find it and like, push it like it's a magic button. You just push the G spot and you're feeling this, like, wild orgasm. The G spot actually is still the clitoris. The G spot is just the name for the area that the internal legs of the clitoris. So one thing I didn't share when we were talking about the clitoris earlier is that that little nub of skin that is visible to the human eye, that is actually just a part, one very small part of the clitoris. It actually extends up into the. It splits off into two legs, like a wishbone shape. And so the G spot is just like the bundle of flesh around those internal legs of the clitoris. There's actually still debate between researchers and doctors around, like, does the G spot actually exist? Because, again, it's not like a spot, like a magic button type of thing.

It's like a region.

Yeah, it's a region. And people say, like, I'm not sure if it's worth, you know, calling the region a spot spot. Like, it's just not necessarily very helpful. So I want to clear up, yeah, the G spot is not some magical spot, and it's not going to give you, like, wildly better orgasms than the clitoris is.

And I would imagine that it's a person by person thing. It may be that there are some people where, you know, the wall of the vagina there is very close to the clitoris. And that's, you know, and that person really likes indirect clitoral stimulation. And so it actually is highly pleasurable for them. And then there's going to be other people where it's maybe not quite as close or it doesn't provide as much stimulation. And like, you know, those are kind of like, those anatomical differences are what they are. So you might hear from some people that are like, oh, yeah, when you stimulate me in this one spot, you know, in my G spot, it's so good. But it's, like, not fair for those people to be like, yeah, it's so good. And everyone has to do it that way. It's like, it's like not recognizing these, you know, just like, anatomical differences between all of us. And then, you know, and it instead makes people feel really bad about themselves because it's like, oh, well, this person is saying, it's like 10 times better. Maybe it is 10 times better for that person, but that doesn't mean it's going to be like that for you. Like, you can bang your head into the wall or you could focus on, you know, the things that actually are going to be really pleasurable for you and have a better time.

And definitely if you're someone who's never had an orgasm or never had an orgasm with a partner, you want to focus on the clitoris. Like, just forget about the cervix and the G spot for now. Focus on the clitoris. And then once you're reliably having orgasms that way, sure, feel free to explore your body and see all the pleasure that you can feel. But again, we have to be realistic that the clitoris is where it's at when it comes to pleasure and orgasm.

All right, I want to be able to orgasm without a vibrator, but I am struggling. Help. I feel like we hear this question from a lot of people.

Oh, yeah, we hear about vibrators all the time. And I always like to say, you know, I think vibrators are amazing. They can deliver incredible stimulation. They can deliver a kind of stimulation that you can't get any other way. They can be a lifesaver for a lot of people. And, like, we were talking about with, like, the clitoris, the cervical, the G spot, like, there is no orgasm hierarchy. Like, you're not a better person if you have orgasms without a vibrator than you do if you have them with a vibrator. So zero hierarchy if you want to have orgasms without a vibrator. And I'm saying if because that's a personal choice that everyone gets to make. There are definitely plenty of women who say, like, I love my vibrator. I love having every orgasm with my vibrator. And that's great. That's cool. But if you are somebody who wants to have orgasms in other ways, then we have to be thoughtful about how we use vibrators. Because here's the thing with vibrators, they're not addicting. But when you masturbate in the exact same way every single time, you kind of do start to train your body to need that kind of stimulation. You're, like, carving out a neural pathway that your brain just, like, wants to keep going down over and over again. And, like, the thing with vibrators is they can make orgasm very quick and very easy. So a lot of us, myself included, like, when we use vibrators, become very lazy masturbators, where it's like we're just laying back. You put the toy on your clitoris, kind of lay back, wait for it to deliver a nice little orgasm to you. And so when you're making that transition to trying to orgasm with your hands or from your partner, stimulation, it can feel challenging because you're like, ooh I'm having to work so much harder at this.

And.

Ooh, it's like, taking a lot longer than it does. So it's more this, like, mental game that you're playing with yourself. So if you want to have an orgasm without them, I think that you need to spend time masturbating without the vibrator, and it is going to take time to learn how to orgasm with your hand. I just want to give you that heads up. I can't predict exactly how long it's going to be, but in general, like, the longer you've been masturbating exclusively with a vibrator, the longer it takes to make that transition over to your hand. But you can do it. You just need to be patient, keep trying, don't freak out. And in general, I'd say, like, it's a good rule of thumb if you want to have orgasms in other ways to not masturbate with your vibrator or, like, have orgasms with your vibrator more than, like, let's say, 50% of the time.

All right, now let's get into intercourse. Are there better positions than others when it comes to female orgasm?

There absolutely are. Like, by far and away, the most popular position for female orgasm is woman on top. And that's because it's a lot easier to get clitoral stimulation. Like, one of the challenges of intercourse. Like, don't get me wrong, intercourse is really fun. It can be very pleasurable. It can feel very intimate and connecting with your partner, but it just does not create a lot of clitoral stimulation. Like, you're getting stimulation in your vagina, not on your clitoris. So as a little aside here, like, we've polled women in our community, and we asked, like, is intercourse the most pleasurable activity for you? 91% of women said no, which is wild.

Damn. Yeah.

And a lot of that is. Yeah, you're not getting the stimulation that you need. So the funny comparison I always love to make here is that intercourse for a woman is like a man having his balls played with. Like, it might feel pleasurable, it might.

Feel fun, might get me kind of excited and stimulated in the short term, but not in the long term. Yeah.

For the vast majority of people, it is not anywhere near enough stimulation to reach orgasm. So that's what intercourse is for a lot of us women.

So it's kind of like a nice tease.

Yes. So we want to find positions where it's easier to get clitoral stimulation. So cowgirl is a great one for that because your bodies are a little bit further apart from each other. So you can touch yourself, your partner can touch you, you can use a toy, or you can even grind against your partner's lower abdomen to create some stimulation that way.

Okay, how about this one? After I have an orgasm, any desire to have sex dies, and I just don't want to be touched anymore. Why does that happen?

That's a very, very common sign of an orgasm. And actually, if you're somebody, you know, another common question that we get is, like, how do I know that I've had an orgasm? One of the telltale signs is this hypersensitivity after the orgasm where we just, like, don't want to be touched. It can feel uncomfortable, sometimes even painful to be touched afterwards, and it just feels like the experience is over. So that's super normal and common.

But that's not like. That's not like, 100% of. Of the time for all women.

No, not. Not for everybody. Like, not everybody experiences this, but most women will experience, like, some amount of hypersensitivity.

Yeah. The reason you're, like.

You're, like, pushing your partner's hand away really quickly or like, oh, okay, I'm done. But I think, like, men and penis owners feel that same way too.

Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, yeah, with men and penis owners, there is an actual, like, chemical thing that is happening to, like, create a refractory period. All right, what about the other end of the spectrum, which is, like, multiple orgasm? How common is multiple orgasm in a single session?

So we don't have a ton of great research on this, but there are a couple of studies showing, like, anywhere from 12 to 42% of women are capable of multiple orgasms. But we don't have great data on how often is it happening. Is it every single time? Is it sometimes? The cool thing about female orgasms is that we are capable of having them right away. Men have this thing that's called a refractory period, which is where after they orgasm, they cannot have an orgasm right away.

Again, except for a very small minority of lucky, perhaps men, well, they still.

Need time in between, whereas a woman can immediately have another orgasm, which is really cool. But that being said, a lot of times we talk about multiple orgasm in the same sort of way that we talk about squirting, where it's like, the bar has been raised, like the holy grail. One is not good enough. Now you have to have multiple.

I was certainly guilty of thinking this way early in our relationship. I just thought it was so Cool. Like, I mean, honestly, it was like I was jealous. Like, well, I want to be able to have that. So the next best thing I can do is give it to you.

And also, like a lot of smutty books, the multiple orgasm is very, very common. It's like at least three or four in every session.

Oh, yeah. And I mean, and porn too. And it's like, well, most of that's fake.

Yeah. So I'll say, you know, if you're somebody who's never had an orgasm before or can't orgasm with a partner, just focus on having the one. Like, one orgasm is amazing and great. Multip. Multiple orgasms don't necessarily mean more pleasure either, which is the other interesting thing. Like, I've experienced them and for me, like, each successive orgasm afterward, it just doesn't feel as good. Like, you don't reach as high of a peak. So it's like, I actually never feel the desire to go for multiples because my first one is just like, it's good. I have a great time.

You want to be left with that memory.

Yeah, so I don't like. Yeah, we very, very rarely, like, try for them. So just focus on having one. And again, like, if you get to this point where now you're having them reliably and you're curious about your body and want to see, like, what's possible for you, of course, explore it, but just don't put this pressure or expectation on yourself. Of like, it only counts if I've had three.

All right. Why is the intensity of my orgasm lower when I'm with my partner versus on my own?

This is an interesting question because it actually can be pretty different for different people. Like, some people say it feels more intense with their partner than it does on their own, but really it just boils down to the stimulation. It sounds like for this person, they might really have a honed in technique that they like to use on their own. So when they're with a partner, your partner's never gonna touch you in exactly the same way you touch yourself. So it might be just like, you know those little tiny nuances and like, oh, they're using a little more pressure than I do, or they're going a bit slower than I usually do, or they have a slightly different stroke than I usually use. But I like to say, like, all orgasms are like snowflakes. Like, no two are alike. So I wouldn't get too stressed out about them being, you know, less intense with your partner than on your own. But definitely, like, if you want to help your partner get more fine tuned and nuanced and, like, show them, you know, the kinds of techniques that you like or really be more communicative about. Like, a little bit faster, a little bit slower. Like, you can, you know, definitely do that.

Yeah, I mean, you might just think about what type of stimulation are you giving yourself when you do it on your own. Compare that to what type of stimulation are you getting when you are orgasming with a partner. And are there ways to meld those two approaches? All right, Vanessa, how can I clear my mind and focus in the moment so that I can orgasm?

So first, what I want to start with is I just want to make sure that this person is not thinking that just not thinking about it is the path to orgasm. Yeah, I was wondering my own story. I thought that that was the only technique. Just don't think about it. So I think let's make sure you know that that is not the only thing. There are actual techniques that we need to use to reach orgasm. That being said, I know the idea of having a hard time being present in the moment, having a hard time. Like, it's a very common frustration that people tell us about sex. And it's very understandable because most of us spend all of our days, like, thinking multiple things at the same time, multitasking, being super distracted. And so, of course, like, there's nothing magical about sex that makes it like, we're instantly able to be super focused, even though we're not at all focused in our regular lives. Like, our brains are just so trained to be thinking multiple thoughts. So I have two tips for you here. The first one is that we cannot control our thoughts. So one of the things that happens for people when they're getting distracted during sex is you notice a distracting thought pop into your mind, and then you start beating yourself up for it. And then you go on this crazy distraction spiral. Like, you start thinking about, you know, oh, I need to bake cupcakes for the soccer game. And then you're like, well, why am I thinking about cupcakes right now? I'm supposed to be present. Oh, why? I can never be present during sex. I'm always so distracted. I can never, you know, like, you just drive yourself nuts. But if we start from this place of, like, look, we cannot control our thoughts. You cannot stop yourself from thinking. That's why the whole, like, don't think about it advice is so dumb. Instead, the only thing that we can do is, like, notice that we're having a distracting thought and gently bring ourselves back into the moment. It's very similar to meditation. Like, when you meditate, you're not just clearing your mind of all thoughts. Like, you have the distracting thought. You bring yourself back into the moment. So you can just say to yourself, like, okay, there's my distracting thought. All right, now let me come back into the moment. Or you can say to yourself, like, I forgive myself for having a distracting thought. Let me refocus and get pleasure. Like, refocus on the pleasure that I'm feeling in this moment instead. Another thing that you can do is repeat some sort of mantra to yourself. So I like having this phrase that I repeat to myself because for me, it's like a way to keep my brain distracted with something, but the key is to make it something that's focused on pleasure. So for you, it could be something very simple, like, I deserve to feel pleasure, or I want to focus on the pleasure that I'm feeling right now. Or I can take up as much time as I need to take up something like that that keeps you focused and rooted in the pleasure. And again, you're still going to have distracting thoughts, still going to have to bring yourself back into the moment, but giving yourself some sort of, like, nice reminder, like that of, like, I deserve to have this experience, that can be really nice.

One thought that came to mind. And this is sort of a question. If you are asking this question, like, this is a question for you. Like, is this coming up for you feeling, like, distracted in the moment, thinking about other stuff? Is this coming up for you when you are in the middle of, like, having or doing or receiving your most pleasurable sexual activity? Or is this coming up when you are, say, doing some other type of sexual activity? And what I'm specifically talking about is, like, intercourse without much clitoral stimulation, if that is, you know, assuming that is not particularly pleasurable for you? Because I think I feel like we hear from a lot of women where it's like, yeah, well, like, I'm like. Like I'm having all these thoughts come up when I'm doing this activity that isn't really that pleasurable for me. And I'm, like, trying to clear my thoughts so that maybe it can get more pleasurable versus, yeah, like, I don't know. I love receiving oral sex, and my partner's going down on me, and it's super pleasurable, but I keep having these thoughts and I'm getting distracted. Like, then, yeah, absolutely, go through those exercises that Vanessa just talked about. But if you were trying to be like, oh, well, maybe the reason why I'm not enjoying this not very pleasurable activity is because I'm having all these other thoughts. Consider perhaps you are having all these other thoughts because the activity is not particularly pleasurable. I'm thinking for myself. Like, if you were spending like five minutes fondling my balls, I might not be having very many thoughts for the first 30 seconds. And I guarantee you, after those first 30 seconds, I'd be like, what's going to happen next, huh? Why is she. Why is she fondling my ball so much? This is kind of weird. Yeah, I would really like to be doing something else. Huh? Yeah, this. I'm kind of losing my erection now. Like, this doesn't feel very good. Hmm. You know what else happened today? Oh, God, I have to do that report for blah. You know, like, of course that's going to start happening for me because I'm not feeling very much pleasure. So I would really challenge you. Are you asking this question because you are struggling in those moments of high stimulation, or are you struggling because you're not getting a lot of stimulation? And if that's the case, try pivoting to an activity where you know that you can really enjoy it. All right, our last question. Babe, I've never had an orgasm. Where's the best place to start?

The best place to start is finishing school. So I wanna loop back around and tell you a little bit more about the story of why it is back open again. So we originally made the decision to close it when we had decided that we were really going to niche down into focusing on helping couples keep the spark alive in long term relationships. Like, as a sex therapist, I love anything and everything related to sex. But we got to this point in our business where we decided, you know, we really want to, like, carve out a specific niche for ourselves. And as a couple who's been together for. We're going on Pop quiz. Xander, how many years is it this year?

We have been together for 16 years. We're going on 17 years together.

Yes. 17 years.

Are you sure about that?

No. Yes. We got together in 2007. It's 24.

Okay. But we're going on 13 years married. So isn't it.

Is it.

Was it four years? Okay. All right, great. Seventeen. That's even better. Even better than I thought as a couple.

Has been together 17 years and has been through our own ups and downs and challenges with our sex life and keeping the spark alive. Live like that really felt like the niche that we wanted to follow. And at that time, we had so many different courses.

Too many.

I mean, we still do, to be honest. We've been on a journey these last couple of years, but we do have fewer of really trying to narrow things down so that we're not creating this overwhelming experience for people coming to our website. And so we made this really difficult decision of like, okay, finishing school. It's a course for women. There definitely is content that you can explore with your partner, but it doesn't really like, fit in that niche of couples keeping the spark alive in long term relationships. And so we decided to close it down. We went through this whole process of closing it down. And I very quickly into the process, started thinking, was that a mistake?

Oh my God, what have we done?

What have we done? And as time has gone by, you know, we continue having women reach out all the time saying, like, do you have anything to help with this? I really want to learn how to orgasm. We have women reach out saying, I've heard of finishing school. My friend took finishing school. My friend said it was so incredible, like, can I get into it? I read these articles, I saw, you know, these interviews with you, like, I want to get into it. And I, like, I even had. There was a reporter that did a whole, like, personal piece. She hadn't had an orgasm. And she went through finishing school, had this incredible experience, like, wrote all these pieces on it for a whole bunch of different women's magazines. And like, she reached out and was like, where is finishing school? And like, even when we were closing the course down and talking about it, like on our Instagram stories, like, we had all these women reach out saying, like, why are you closing this? This course changed my life, like, sharing all these incredible stories. And so, yeah, I've been like, for a while now just thinking, like, I don't know if we like, should we not have done that? Yeah.

Did we make the wrong decision?

Did we make the wrong decision? And I'll, like, I'll be honest, I am not somebody who's afraid to say, like, I think I made a mistake. I think I, you know, want to change my mind. I think that's a, actually a really good skill to have to be able to recognize that.

And the good news is that we can do something about it.

It is so I think I made a mistake.

Yeah, me too.

I think, you know, yeah, it's. It doesn't exactly, like, neatly fit into our niche, but it's still.

It kind of does. Because if you, if you are a woman in a long term relationship and you are struggling to orgasm either at all or just with a partner. Like, that absolutely affects the intimacy and the connection and the sex life available to both of you in your long term relationship. And so having these resources available for people that want to be having more and better orgasms in their long term relationship, I mean that has a ripple effect that extends to both people in the relationship.

So long story short, finishing school is back open and we are so excited to welcome you into it. We encourage you to at least check it out. It is such a cool course. Like, Seriously has gotten the best feedback, the most positive reviews and write ups like all over the place about it. And what I'm so proud of is that it's like, it's a really personal chorus for me too. Like I've felt all of that pain of feeling something's wrong with me, something's broken, why isn't this happening? Why am I having all this sex that's like not for me, it's just for my partner. And so, you know, now being on the other end of that and having gone through this really tough journey of having to figure it out with like no resources. I'm sorry. So excited that I was able to create resources that helped so many other women. And I'm really thankful that we are deciding to bring it back. So you can check out all the information about the course@vmtherapy.com orgasm but what I will tell you is that this is a very practical course. Like you are not going to hear any bullshit about like just don't think about it. Just have a glass of wine and relax. Like I will lead you through step by step exactly what to do to have orgasms on your own and with your partner whenever you want them. There are so many incredible exercises in here. And it's also a really great course because there's. So there's a streamlined version of the course where if it's just like I want to get in and out as quick as possible, I just want to know the techniques for how to orgasm. I will walk you through every single thing. But there are also all these incredible bonus resources to really help you dig deeper if you want to, into like exploring your relationship with your body, your confidence in the bedroom, asking for what you want, allowing yourself to receive.

Turns out these things are all interrelated and impact your ability to have probably more and better orgasms.

Yeah. So this is very comprehensive. Like this is honestly like everything you need to know to have an incredible sex life. To like feel empowered feel confident, feel connected to yourself and to your partner. Like, it is all in this course. So it's, it's this kind of like, choose your own adventure style to it as well. And we even have a 30 day money back guarantee, so there's literally nothing to lose. Like, give it a shot for 30 entire days. If it doesn't feel like it's the right fit for you, then we will get you all of your money back. Okay. I could talk about this course for hours. It's my baby. I'm so excited that it's back. But we will let you check out all the information for yourself@vmtherapy.com orgasm.

All right, well, that's all for today's episode of Pillow Talks. Thank you so much for listening. Join us again next week when we do another edition of Smash or Pass.

Sam.