EPISODE 184: How To Get More Physical Intimacy From Your Partner

When we take the time, when we carve time out of our day to be intimate with each other, like, especially when we're busy, that makes me feel so important to you. And like, yes, we're busy. Life is full. We have a lot of responsibilities, a lot of things we do. But, like, I don't feel more important than I do when we make the time for sex. Hello, and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Xander Marin. I'm a sex Therapist with over 20.

Years of experience, and I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.

Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. This episode is brought to you by zocdoc. Zocdoc is a free, free app and website where you can search and compare highly rated in network doctors near you and instantly book appointments with them online. Go to Zocdoc.comPillow and download the Zocdoc app for free. Hey, babe.

Yeah?

Why aren't we having more sex?

Why aren't we? Well, first of all, we're recording a podcast right now, so it'd be hard to be having sex. But I don't like. I don't like. I don't like the. I don't like the sound of that question.

This is me demonstrating what not to do.

I'm already feeling defensive and I haven't.

Done anything wrong 10 seconds into the episode.

Okay, wow, way to start on the wrong foot, Vanessa.

I know, I know. That just came to me just in the moment when you just looked over at me and I was, like, staring blankly out the window. I was just. That was me thinking, this is the dumb intro I'm doing today. So here's the deal for this week's episode. Last week, we did an episode all about what to do if you want more emotional intimacy in your relationship. And we told you that there was going to be the. What did I call it? The flip side of the coin?

The sibling.

No, you called it the sibling.

The sister.

They were sister episodes that this week we were going to be talking about what to do if you want more things. Physical intimacy in our. In your relationship and in our relationship. What do if you want us to have more sex?

Oh, yeah. What do they need to do for us to have more Sex.

Pay us.

Kinky.

I mean, is there anything else you could think of?

Well, I mean, I can think of all kinds of things in addition to getting paid.

Well, what would you actually. What would actually make you have more sex? If somebody from our audience request. This is getting weird. I'm gonna stop it. Okay, so today we're gonna talk about what to do if you want more physical intimacy. We're gonna talk about what is physical intimacy. Cause you might actually not know. We're gonna talk about some gender socialization, why physical intimacy is important, and how to ask your partner for more. But first, Xander has a little update. Do you wanna share your update?

I do. It feels kind of weird because I know that this episode is gonna be coming out, you know, a couple weeks after we're actually recording it, and by then, it's going to be really old news. I, as most of you know, if you've been listening and even if you don't know, you've heard the impact of this. Since June, early June, I have been doing a palatal expansion, so expanding my upper palate in my mouth. And as of today, I went to orthodontist earlier this morning, and I had half of the expander device. I was installed, my mouth removed. So the part that goes kind of like around my teeth on the top, that got pulled out today. So I'm done with the expansion. And I mean, the thing that is most salient for all you podcast listeners.

Salient. Good podcast.

Salient. Good. Salient.

Vocab. Good Vocab.

Word. So if you can hear me saying salient with a nice S sound, I can talk again without slurring my words, which so excited. Is really incredible. The even more incredible thing is that I am wearing my Invisalign aligners right now, and I'm still not slurring. I'm able to say everything. Like, I'd say I'm, like, at 99% right now. If I took the aligners out, maybe I would sound a little better. But this sounds so much better than how I sounded previously. Yeah. It turned out all that it was. It was not the aligners that was messing me up. It was basically these, like, metal bars along the top of my mouth that, you know, my tongue was bumping into, and it couldn't really, like, move in the way that it was accustomed to. So it's a huge relief for me. Yeah, like, when your voice is impacted, that's a. It's kind of tough psychologically. It's weird because you have an idea of how you sound inside your head and you hear it and it doesn't sound like you. So that kind of threw me for a loop for a while. I was finally starting to get used to it and then bam, they took it off and I'm all better.

Very excited for you.

Yeah, I, I, I just get a lot of joy saying words that start with S and hearing hearing that S come out nice and sharply.

All right, well, why don't you read us our reviews of the week?

Oh, okay.

Just one.

Yeah. So we would love it if you left us a five star review and a rate. Oh, sorry, a five star rating and a review on, on Apple podcasts. Because that helps us out so much. If you're happy for me and getting like my voice back in this podcast, honestly, I mean, if you're happy for.

Me, leave us a review.

Well, now, now you, you can, you can listen to me unencumbered now. I mean, it is kind of funny. I do think about like, you know, there's, there are plenty of people that probably started listening to our podcast, you know, in the middle of my expansion journey, and just all they know is my voice kind of like with a weird list. And yeah, this is what I actually sound like. So anyway, if you are stoked that you can hear Xander saying Ss and Zs properly again, I'd love it if you just left us a quick review at Apple Podcasts. Just go to the main Pillow Talks Apple podcast page, scroll all the way to the bottom, smash that five stars, and then just like, say a couple kind words about me or the podcast. But no, we appreciate that so much that we pick a review at random every week and read it aloud on the podcast. And if yours gets read, you've won a free masterclass from us. So all you have to do is email us@infomtherapy.com to claim it or DM us on Instagram. If this is your review, you're a winner. Hilariously honest and deeply insightful. I absolutely love this podcast. The dynamic between Vanessa and Xander is so funny and relatable. They talk about important relationship and sex topics that are available right at our fingertips. They make me feel so much more confident when going to my partner to talk about some of these more difficult or sometimes awkward conversations. These two make my work commute go by so quick and I learn so much. Highly recommend.

Oh, it's a really sweet review. Thank you so much. Sometimes searching for the right doctor is like a bad Mad Libs. You need a blank specialist who takes Your blank insurance who is within blank miles of you, who doesn't have a blank month wait to get in for an appointment. Well, zocdoc makes it easy to fill in those blanks to help you find the right doctor for your specific needs. ZocDoc is a free app and website where you can search and compare high quality in network doctors. Choose the right one for your needs and click to instantly book an appointment. We're talking about in network appointments with more than 100,000 healthcare providers across every specialty from mental health to dental health, eye care to skin care, and much more. You can filter for. Doctors who take your insurance, are located nearby, are a good fit for any medical needs you have and who are highly rated by verified patients. Plus, Zocdoc appointments happen fast, typically within just 24 to 72 hours of booking. You can even score same day appointments. Now, anytime we take on a podcast sponsor, we always have to try them out. With ZocDoc, it's a little bit more complicated since we didn't have a need for a doctor in that exact moment. But we turned to our team and we asked if anybody had experience. And we had multiple team members who reached out to us right away and said they'd had great experiences. There were times where they really needed a medical provider. There was a lot of stress and anxiety, and they felt like zocdoc just so easily was able to connect them with somebody that they needed in that moment. So we're so excited to have them as a podcast sponsor and really grateful for helping make those stressful moments of life feel a lot easier. So stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to zocdoc.compillow to find and instantly book a top rated doctor today. That Z O C. Zocdoc.com pillow. Okay, so let's get into it. Let's talk about first. What is physical intimacy? So I think this right here is where so many of us go wrong. Because a lot of us think about physical intimacy and our brains immediately go to sex. Oh, you're excited to do that?

Yeah. Let's talk about sex, baby. No, I was about to do that earlier when it was like, what is physical intimacy?

No.

And I was like, vanessa's gonna hate it. Okay.

I was actually thinking about when I was sitting here, like, how do I open up this podcast episode? I was thinking about, like, mentioning that song. And I was like, no, I can't. I refuse to do it. But you brought it in.

I did.

Okay, here's the little backstory. Behind that. I hate that song.

Well, it's understandable because of the number of people that introduce us on podcasts by singing that song.

Every time, like every time we're interviewed, somebody plays that song. We just, like, had a little speech at something a couple weeks ago. They played that song. It's like our walk up music. And I was like, oh, God, no, it's a great song. Look, I'm very happy for Salt n Pepa. I'm glad they made it, but I'm so sick of it, I don't want to hear it anymore. Anyways. Okay, so yes, physical intimacy includes sex, but sex is just one small part of physical intimacy. Of course, there are lots of, like, lots of kinds of ways to have sex. I think, you know, we've talked a lot about how people in male female relationships, we really even narrow sex down to just intercourse. Like, let's be real. For most male female couples, sex is a few seconds of making out, a few seconds of groping, and then straight on to the intercourse. Right. But there are so many other ways to have sex with each other. So there's that, but there's also touch and closeness throughout the day.

Yeah. So we're talking stuff like cuddling, hugs, holding hands, sitting close to each other, massages, caressing each other's backs. Could even be stuff like dancing together.

Yeah, there's so many other ways to be physically intimate with each other that don't even have to include your genitals. And also the other piece of this is that it's physical intimacy. I think so many of us forget about the intimacy aspect of it.

Yeah, we got stuck on the physical. It's just physical sex. Like, somehow physical is superficial because I think I, you know, I think where it comes from, now that we're saying it, it makes so much sense in my head. I think where it comes from is we think about physical attraction and, you know, how superficiality can come into beauty and physical attraction. And, you know, I think that, you know, we go through a lot as we come of age and start dating and whatnot, trying to reconcile, like, how important our physical characteristics. And, you know, and there's a lot of talk about, like, oh, is that shallow? And all of this stuff. So I think we kind of condition ourselves in a way to downplay. You know, when we hear that word physical, we jump to like, oh, yeah, this stuff maybe that I want to downplay, or like, I don't want to, like, get in my head about, like, oh, I need these, like, specific physical attributes. And then we hear physical intimacy or like, you know, combined sort of like sex and getting physical. And it's kind of like easy to just sort of throw the baby out with the bathwater because we've already made this connection. Like, oh, the physical stuff is like, is not actually so important.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I mean, so many of us think of it as this physical act, but it's not just purely physical. It's so important to recognize that sex is just a much about connection. Like, yes, you absolutely can just have sex. That's no connection. That's just like getting it done, trying to feel pleasure. Of course there's lots of casual sex, but like, in a long term committed relationship, sex is really all about connection. It's this special thing that we do with each other. It's a way we get to show up and be truly vulnerable with each other, to play, to explore. Like, there's so much more to it. And I think especially if your sex life is in a tough place, it's really tempting to think of sex as just this, like, this purely physical act. And then you think like, oh, well, that's not important. Like, there are so many more other important things. I'm too busy. I've got this on my plate. I'm too tired. Like, when we think of it as just the physical, it's very easy to write it off.

And, you know, then we further get in that hole of like, of assuming or, you know, having the experience that almost any type of physical touch or physical intimacy is going to lead one partner to wanting sex. And therefore that's something that we should shy away from. That sort of like the double. The double whammy is like we deprioritize the physical and then we avoid it even further. Whereas, you know, we're going to argue in this whole podcast like, this is just as important of an element of your relationship, sex or otherwise physical. It's just as important of an element of your relationship as, as the emotional. All right, guys, I got a quick bone to pick when it comes.

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For a lot of people, like, the intimacy that being physical creates leads to more emotional intimacy too. Like, in the right circumstances, physical intimacy can create more emotional intimacy. Like, that's definitely the case for me. So when you and I are already like, when we're in a good place, when we're feeling close and Connected. Like, when we have sex, it feels so heart opening to me. Like, it's like we're. We're really there in that moment together. We're making that space for each other. We're fully focused on this task that we're doing together. Like, we're just in it together, and it feels. Yeah, I know task sounds like a weird word, but, like, you know what I mean? Like, as a.

The act, the thing that we're doing.

Think about, like, when we go on a date night, we're like, we're pulling our phones out. Like, oh, hold on. Like, someone messaged me. We're getting distracted. Well, I'm getting distracted eavesdropping at the table next to us.

I can never.

I can't hear what is going on over there. Like, even on a date night, which ostensibly is like, the main thing couples do to really prioritize each other. Like, we're wildly distracted.

Well, there's a lot of distractions in a busy restaurant or, you know, whatever. There's noise, there's things happening. You're focused on, like, oh, how's the waiter? You know, I was like, how's, like, the server come over? Yeah. Have we ordered? Oh, okay. Where's my food? You know, I'm hungry, all that kind of stuff.

But actually, now that I'm thinking about it, it's like, sex is one of. Sex is probably the only thing that you and I do together without as, like, the singular focus. In that moment, we are only having sex. We're not on our phones. We're not listening to something else we're not watching. Well, we're listening to some music, but not like that or.

Or cooking dinner. Oh, so, you know, the food and sex comparisons continue to be important. Well, if we're both. If we're both really preparing something to.

The phone for me, it really comes down to the phone for me because every other activity we do, we're busting out our phone sometimes.

Yeah.

Oh, hold on. I heard a little ding. Oh, I just need to check something. Oh, we're having a conversation about this. Let me Google something about that. The phones are always coming out. The phones never come out during sex.

Yeah, and I give you a hard time if you forgot to put yours on silent, because she does half the time. So annoying. I'm like, come on, girl, you knew what we were doing. It's not a surprise.

So, yeah, there is something about, like, really being in that moment together that creates so much emotional closeness and intimacy. So last week we mentioned our idea that like, there are two types of people in the world. There are people who want to feel connected before they have sex, and there are people who want to have sex as a way to feel connected. And usually each relationship is. Or every relationship is one of each. I don't think we mentioned these stats last time, though. We polled our audience about this, and we found that 86% of women want emotional connection before physical connection, and 77% of men want physical connection before emotional connection. I will say we are the reverse of the typical gender dynamic here. I want physical connection before emotional.

Which is funny because physical intimacy is like, Physical touch is not high on your love languages list.

I know. Love languages is bullshit.

Where did this come from?

My love language is sex.

Okay, fair.

No. So we're the opposite. So if you're the opposite, too, that's, you know, that's just how numbers break down. That's totally fine. But I want to talk a little bit about the reason, some of the reasons why we think that is. So why is it, you know, I know we have this tendency to write off men as, oh, they're just horny. They just want sex wherever, whenever. You know, they're sex obsessed. But I think a lot of the reason why men often want physical intimacy first is because of the crappy male socialization that they get. Like, we talk about this so much that men are taught that they're not supposed to be emotional, whereas women are allowed to be emotional. It's even kind of encouraged. So for a lot of men, like, I've had so many men tell me the only way that I feel like I'm really allowed to connect with my partner is through sex. So even though most men, like, rationally know, like, it's, you know, it's not like anybody's gonna come beat down my door or anything like that. Like, I still think that there's this. This feeling inside that sex is the only way that you can really open up.

I think also part of it is, like, I think as a man, I mean, I still. I even still feel this so often, especially when I'm just, you know, hanging out with or talking with other men. It's just there's this, like, extreme level of, like, defenses. Like, always having sort of defenses up of, like, you know, oh, like, ooh, asking that deeper probing question. Like, ooh, that might be a little too much. Or, like, what's he gonna think? What are they gonna think if I. If I say this? Or. Or whatever. Or, like, okay, like, how can I describe what's going on for me in terms of more like facts rather than feelings or how can I rationalize whatever is happening or explain it in a way that makes sense rather than like in a way that is just based on how I'm actually feeling. And so I, I think like my experience at least is that is, you know, you might even have those defenses up when you are hanging out, you know, when you're trying to date someone or you know, even on a day to day basis outside of sex with your long term partner. My experience has always been with sex is that when I've started to have sex with someone in a, in a committed relationship, post sex is, that's when I feel those defenses like are really gone. It might be the chemicals rushing through my, my head.

Your post nut clarity.

Yeah, my post not clarity or you know, just probably that like rush of oxytocin and all the other neurotransmitters that are, they're going through that kind of lower the defenses and give you that opportunity to like kind of have a moment of sharing emotion and intimacy. And so yeah, I think that, yeah, for a lot of men it's like, it's like it, they may not be able to point to this explicitly, but like, it's this huge moment of relief. Like, oh, okay, I can be myself for a moment before the walls comes crashing down or something like that. So. But like I, you know, for me, I don't know, even just recording the last episode about emotional intimacy and this one, I've never really thought of it in this way. But I can now kind of see if I play back like, you know, the times when I've had more casual sex in, in my life. Like, I think the reason it didn't feel good is because sex feels like this very like emotional thing. Like you're, you're. Whether your intention is for it to be casual or not, like, you know, you're sharing a lot with each other basically by having sex. And if I didn't have that baseline level of emotional connection with the person, I felt like there was a mismatch sort of in that moment after the sex was done where it's like, oh, like I gotta get, I gotta put the defenses back up because we don't have this baseline level where I can even like, you know, I don't know, have a emotional conversation with this person because I don't know them. And for me, that always manifested for me in kind of this like icky feeling of like, ooh, this feels like we just did too much and now we can't, like. Yeah, you know, it's. I don't know, it's like I wrote a check that I can't quite cash right now. So anyway, I think for me I can realize. Oh, okay, yeah, that's a good sign that, like, I want to have that baseline level of emotional connection of trust, so that when the walls kind of come down, I can actually, like, I feel comfortable.

Yeah, that makes sense. So Xander and I both love to cook. It's one of our favorite ways to unwind after a long day. But let's be real. Going food shopping, getting all the ingredients, deciding what you're going to have. Like, it can just be very time consum, even for people who love to cook.

Yeah, we need a little help.

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Yeah. Because then you're really, like, sweeping aside a core part of who he feels he is. You know, whether that's completely true or not. Because I think that, like, the reality is, is, like, what men need to understand is, oh, it's not that you don't know how to be emotional. It's that you have only been allowed to be emotional in a very narrow set of circumstances. And so what men need to understand is, oh, sex isn't the only way that I can be emotional. I need to look at sex as exam. An example of or proof that, oh, I can be emotional. I just have to, like, kind of push myself to be able to find out how to express it in other situations. Because I can't just be like, oh, God, I need to express an emotion. We bet I have to have sex. Like, it doesn't. It doesn't work like that. So it's like, men need to understand, oh, okay, I am capable of this. Here's the proof of it. Now I can. Now I can use that as, you know, a reason to go work on doing it in other ways. Whereas partners of men need to validate, yeah, this is a real thing for my partner. This isn't just like, some extra superficial thing that they want. This is a core part of who they have been up until this point. This has been the only way that they really know how to do this.

Okay, so other than the things we've already mentioned, let's talk about some other reasons why physical intimacy is important in relationships. I want to start with, it feels good and it's fun.

Sure is.

Those are some great reasons, I think we so often, like, look down on things that bring us pleasure. And joy. Like, they're not worthwhile enough or sophisticated enough, but they are.

Yeah. I mean, that's just like. That's just like. At least for Americans, that's, I think, just like those very deep puritanical roots sort of at the founding of, you know, the.

Nothing is valuable unless it's productive.

That we are. Yeah. And it's so easy to be like, oh, pleasure. Oh, that's. That's hedonism.

Yeah.

Which is such an extreme way of thinking. Anything feels good is hedonistic. Like, hedonistic is the far end of an extreme. Like, we're not talking about that. It also strengthens the bond between partners and makes you feel more important to each other.

That's actually one of the main things for me, like, when we take the time and we carve time out of our day to be intimate with each other, like, as. Especially when we're busy, that makes me feel so important to you. And like, yes, we're busy. Life is full. We have a lot of responsibilities, a lot of things we do. But, like, I don't feel more important than I do. When we make the time for sex.

It. It's funny, hearing you say that is, like. That's in a way, sort of a description of, like, acts of service. In a way, it's like, sex as an act of service. Yeah. Because. So, I mean, actually, I actually hate.

The Love Languages model because the guy who created it is an asshole. So we need to make our own.

Yeah.

Sex. Service me.

Yeah.

Well, but make me laugh.

What I was gonna say is that. Yeah. I think that this starts to really expose the serious cracks in the Love Languages model, because people think, like, oh, well, physical touch. Like, if you're a physical touch person, then, like, you love sex. But the reality is, it's like, sex can have all these different flavors, and there's all these. You could probably work, you know, a sexual angle into any of the love languages where, like, what Vanessa talked about is the. The act of setting aside time, of prioritizing it. She feels like. She feels so loved and wanted. When we set aside time, especially in a busy day, and say, this is the most important thing to me, which is really, like, the definition of acts of service is like, someone who loves acts of service is like, hey, this person took time out of their day, you know, with a lot of, you know, important things, and did this, you know, for me. And so, yeah. Whereas, you know, service me. For me, I love sex, too, but for me, I don't ever think of it in that way I'm never like, oh, that was so meaningful because she stopped what she was doing and did this with me instead. Like, that thought never crosses my mind at all. So. All right, all right. Other reasons it's important. Well, it builds trust.

Yeah. If you're having sex. Right. Like real vulnerable, intimate, physical intimacy, you.

You made the mistake.

I did.

By just saying sex, which is not what we're talking about.

Physical intimacy. Right. It is extremely trust building.

Yeah. And. And so physical intimacy also differentiates your relationship from a friendship then. I'm not trying to say that like, you know, any amount of physical intimacy is a differentiator, but sort of like when you are experiencing the full range of physical intimacy, then that very much. Yeah. Especially the sexual. Physical intimacy that really differentiates your relationship from just a friendship. And I think on that one, that is a very, you know, this is an important one to look at the gender difference as well, because I think that, you know, most women do have close emotional relationships with other women that also may have some element of physical intimacy as well, which is another reason why those relationships are often so much closer and so much more meaningful than relationships that men have with other men. Because I think most, the vast majority of men have very little to no physical intimacy in their other male friendships. Yeah. You know, other than the like, you know, like giving a hug hi or bye or something like that.

But it's always the, like, clap on the back, like, oh, can't get too close. I really.