EPISODE 19: How To Have Amazing Sex With A Brand New Partner

You had internal pressure?

I had internal pressure, yes. I had a lot of internal pressure.

One specific body part? Yes.

My heart.

Hello, and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Xander Marin. I'm a sex therapist with 20 years.

Of experience, and I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.

So make sure to subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. All right, babe, what do you remember about our first time having sex with each other?

It was amazing. It was the best sex I ever had, and I'll cherish that memory forever. Wow. All right. No, let's get real. It was our second date. It was our third time hanging out. I don't remember a lot about it. I actually remember more about, like, what we did that night. And I remember that we got ourselves a little worked up, so to speak. We didn't really talk about it beforehand in the sense of, like, we didn't plan to have sex. We had intentionally not had sex on our first date, but we hadn't really talked about, like, what was on the table, what was off the table, what kind of timeline we were on. I think that you had expressed, like, not wanting to do it immediately, and we didn't the first two times we hooked up. I think, you know, okay. What I remember is that, at least in my experience, the first time you have sex with someone, it can be kind of quick because you can be really excited, a little anxious, you know, anxiety and excitement. Especially if you haven't had sex like that recently. It can be a little much. I do remember being very pleased with myself for it not being too quick. It was definitely not too long. It felt like an acceptable first time.

It was. I didn't catch myself thinking, like, whoa, we're done already. It was. It was acceptable.

I'm sure you. I'm sure you've experienced that before. That we're done already?

Oh, yes, for sure.

Because I know I have.

We've all been there. Let me ask you a question. So the first. The first, like, the day that we met, we hooked up that night and we just really made out. I think you were kind of starting to initiate a little bit more, and I stopped you.

Yes.

If I had said yes, would you have had sex with me that first night?

I think I Would have. I mean, given the context of how we met. It was at a party. We were young, 22.

I was 23.

It was a pretty sloppy party at my really gross bachelor pad for guys fresh out of college. Bachelor pad in a sketchy part of San Francisco. Oh, no.

Four bedrooms. But one guy living in the living room?

Yeah. Oh, was he living there by then? Yeah. Okay. So, yeah, five guys, four bedrooms. And we had met, like, through a friend. We had met, like, it wasn't, like, early in the night that we met. It was like, you know, you came over to the party when the party was sloppy. The party had already started, so to speak. And so I think I kind of was. I was DJing as well, and it just felt like, oh, this is. It feels like a hookup situation. I did really like you, though. Like, we were talking and stuff, and I was like, oh, this is, like, this is a cool person. I'm excited to get to know her more. I'm also excited to hook up with her.

Do you think it would have changed anything about our relationship if I had slept with you on that very first time?

I don't think so. For me, if I look back in my own sexual history, I don't really have a history of, like, thinking differently about people in that situation. I don't. I do not love the chase at all. I'm not that type of. For me, that's not what does it. So I don't think it would, you know, if I look at the people that I have hooked up with casually versus the people that I got into a relationship with, I think that there's, you know, a mix of. Of having sex on the first night and not. And I didn't really see a difference. However, when you said that you didn't want to have sex on the first night, when you didn't really want to do anything more than making out, and you also were, like, talking about how you wanted to meet up again very soon. I was like, oh, this could be something interesting. Like, she's obviously not looking at this like a hookup situation, and she's into me.

Yeah, I was. I was very into you.

I was. And I was very into you as well.

Is this the most we both blushed at the beginning of any podcast episode?

Maybe.

Let me ask you one more question. Do you think because you're a guy and I'm a girl, did you feel any pressure that first day that we hooked up? Like, did you feel like you were supposed to push things along?

I don't think so. No, I didn't feel any pressure. I was, I was desirous.

You had internal pressure?

I had internal pressure, yes. I had a lot of internal pressure.

One specific body part. Yes.

My heart. My heart was beating so fast. I just, I knew she was the one. People. I could feel it.

Amazing.

It was love at first sight.

Well, yeah. I have very similar memories of our first time. It was in my apartment. We were back in San Francisco. It was a little on the fast side and I remember it being perfectly serviceable. It was not like, holy crap, this is amazing. Like, I had that feeling when we made out that first night. I was like, oh my God. I've never been so into making out with anybody ever before. Like, we made out for six hours. I believe in the end it was excessive. It was really excessive.

I wouldn't, I wouldn't do that again.

I would never do that again. But I remember having incredible chemistry with that and then I was really, really curious about you. What is sex going to be like with you? It was good and I was definitely interested in having sex again with you, but it was not like, wow, that was incredible. And I'm not saying that you, that was like, your performance was mediocre. I think just the two of us together, like, it was perfectly serviceable.

Yeah. You know what? Like, I'm going to be honest here in more ways than one. I am a grower, not a shower. I.

I cannot believe you just said that.

Yeah. And let me, let me, let me explain. I have never, I don't think I've, I've never had, I've never had incredible first time sex. It's an anxiety ridden situation. And for me at least, what I, what I have found is that the second, third, fourth time with someone, it gets significantly better as I get more comfortable with them. As we kind of develop a chemistry and like an understanding of like what we like and what works for us. At least for me, you know, there. If it's the first time I'm having sex and it's been a while, you know, a few weeks or more, like, you know, it's, it's exciting and I'm not going to last very long and I've got no, I've got no shame about that. I think that, you know, it's easy to kind of, for guys, it's easy to get into a bit of like a shame spiral around that if it's like, oh my, you know, if you're doing a lot of hooking up because, you know, a lot of one night Stands. Because it is really hard to have great sex the first time. It's really, really hard. And so, yeah, I mean, for me, I never, I never loved like super casual one time hookups because I know that I can't perform very well. I know I'm better the second and third and fourth time start growing.

I'm really curious to see if we're gonna leave this in the pleasure.

The pleasure grows. The pleasure grows. It doesn't show, it only grows.

Well, I agree. Our sex life definitely has grown into something pretty amazing. I enjoyed talking about our first time and just sharing that. Like, it was good but not great.

Because I like, I like how you said serviceable and I said acceptable. Like I genuinely felt that way. Thank God it was longer than 30 seconds. It was probably two minutes or something. Yeah, yeah, probably for me, I was like, okay, cool. If I make it past a minute, like, awesome, job, well done. It's gonna be significantly better and longer the next time.

I think it was a little bit longer. I'd say maybe like four minutes or so.

But I really lose track of time. Honestly, I'm the worst person when it comes to estimating how long sex takes.

It was an hour. I like sharing that because I think so many people put expectations on first time times of like, oh, if we're really compatible, if we have good chemistry, like, the first time should be amazing and it just is not the case. Like, yeah, sometimes every once in a while you'll get lucky and like have great first time sex. But I've also had great first time sex and then going forward, it was not very good. So great first time sex, number one, it's unrealistic in the vast majority of cases. And number two, it doesn't necessarily mean you're going to have lasting chemistry. So our sex life has definitely grown into something that's pretty remarkable. I'm extremely satisfied with it and I think it's important to acknowledge it started in a satisfactory way. So today we are going to be talking about having sex with someone new for the first time. So for us, it has been just about 14 years since we had sex with someone new for the first time. So we knew that we had to get a lot of feedback from other people who are in the midst of this.

So, yeah, we're comfortable talking about it. We just can't talk from too much experience right now because recent experience. Recent experience, we don't have any.

We went over to Instagram and we asked, what is it like for you the first time you have sex? With somebody new. And boy, oh, boy, did we get a wide array of responses.

However, by far, the number one response was awkward.

Yeah.

Which I can absolutely relate with. For us, it was like I was battling for it to not be awkward. And I think I we toed the line of, like, a little awkward to. Okay. Other responses. Quick, nerve wracking, Weird, sloppy, exciting. That's interesting. I think I've already thrown around every single word of those words, every single one of these words so far in this podcast already. So, you know, maybe I am well suited to be. To be leading this guy. All right, what else? What else, Vanessa?

We had scary. I definitely didn't experience that with you. Performative. I was putting on a little bit of a show. Not like a huge over the top, but, like, I think I was hamming things up a little bit.

Yeah, there was no, like, faked orgasm.

Yeah, it was just like a.

You probably didn't have long enough.

To do a really shortened performance. All right. Stressful, fun, all about the man's pleasure. Terrifying due to previous history with sexual assault. So I want to make sure that we call that one out because for a lot of people, like, first time sex can feel very traumatizing and really scary. Someone else said an exciting buildup, but disappointing after. Have you ever experienced that?

Yes.

The worst sex I've ever had had an incredibly exciting buildup. I was like, oh, my God, this is going to be the best sex of my life. And then when we actually had sex, it was so bad. Oh, so, so bad. And really disappointing. And then lastly, drunken. This was another very, very common response. I'm actually curious to know how many first times, like, what percentage of first times are when people are drunk? And we're going to talk a little bit about that as well later in this episode. So today we are going to be giving you our best tips for having fantastic sex with someone new. So we want to temper the expectations that it doesn't have to be incredible. It doesn't mean anything if it's not. But we want to give you some tips to set yourself up for success.

All right, so let's start out, though, with our review of the week. Improve your sex life and have fun along the way. I truly can't give Vanessa and Xander enough credit for what their free content has done for my spouse's and my sex life and our relationship as a whole. We've been together for over a decade, we have three kids, and we're having the best sex of our lives. I can't even imagine how transformative their paid content is. Although it's on my to do list to find out. Fire, fire, fire, fire, fire.

Oh, wow.

Five fires, ladies and gentlemen.

If you're accounting five fires and five stars, I love this review. Thank you. Also, I feel like that's got to be our tagline at some point, like impression, improve your sex life and have fun along the way.

And have five fires.

No, no fires.

Five alarm fire sex. Now, my question for you is, have you left a review for us yet?

We really love getting your reviews so much and we are doing something fun to celebrate the reviews. And just to thank you for taking the time to leave them, what we're doing is a little giveaway. We're picking one review of the week and that person, we are going to send them personalized advice and feedback. They can ask us a question, tell us about their situation, and we will personally give them coaching. So all you need to do to enter is leave us a review, take a screenshot of it, and send it to us on Instagram at Vanessa Marin Therapy. And if you are picked as the review of the week, then you can just message us and let us know what kind of thing you'd like advice about. So once you submit your review, you are entered into the giveaway every single week. So it's like a one and done kind of thing.

For life.

Yes, for life. So thank you in advance. We really appreciate it. I know sometimes it's annoying to hear people requesting reviews on podcasts, but it genuinely helps so much. We really, really appreciate it. All right, now let's get into our tips for having fantastic sex with someone new for the first time. The first thing that we want to talk about is checking in with yourself. We always like to start with self discovery, because I think every topic that we talk about on this podcast, there is something for us to dig into personally before we even start thinking about it in the context of a relationship with another person.

Yeah, I think when we are approaching a situation where we start thinking or wondering like, oh, am I gonna have sex tonight? Am I gonna have sex with this person that I just started dating? It's been X number of dates. Do you think, am I thinking we're gonna have sex? Like, what you can do is you can check in with yourself about how you're feeling, or you can do what I think most people do, which is kind of suppress any worries that you might have and just kind of be like, oh, let's just see what happens. But I think the really important thing is actually check in with yourself. Hey, what is coming up for me? I'm starting to think about having sex. Am I feeling worried? Am I feeling anxious? Am I feeling scared? So, you know, stuff that you could think about. How long do I want to wait in a new relationship or when I'm dating someone new, rather than just kind of being like, oh, well, I think most people say that you should wait until the third date or the fourth date.

Yeah, we're gonna get into that in a second.

Yeah. So before you even get into a situation where you're thinking like, oh, am I gonna be having sex tonight or tomorrow or something like that, we encourage you to just think through for yourself. What is it that you want around sex? What are your preferences in terms of when you have sex or who you have sex with? What is it that you want out of a first or second or third sexual experience? You know, how do you want to communicate with this partner that you will have sex with about the sex? Like, do you want it to just happen or do you want to talk about it first? And also just acknowledging, like, are there fears coming up around your level of experience? Like, do you feel comfortable having sex? Do you feel nervous? Do you feel anxious? So just checking in with yourself about, what is it that I want and what am I feeling about this? Before you even get into a situation where it's like, oh, I just met this person and maybe we're gonna do it, maybe we're not.

Yeah. I think a lot of us tend to get swept up in the moment and we make decisions in the moment. And then sometimes, like, you know, sometimes we feel okay about those decisions and sometimes we don't. But I think the bottom line is, like, sex always stirs up something for us. And I think it's important for us to take the time to kind of sift through, like, what are those feelings that get stirred up for me when I'm thinking about possibly having sex with somebody new for the first time? Like, what is it that's coming up for me? I mean, we started off the episode reading over that long list of, like, what's it like for you when you have sex with somebody new? So just taking the time to, like, sit with those feelings and understand yourself and where you're coming from a little bit more, that can be such a good foundation for all these other tips that we're going to get into. So the next topic that we want to talk about is a big one. Protection, STI testing and consent.

Oh, yeah.

Obviously, you know, with first time sex, like, I think most of us have at least had the experience of like having first time sex where there's no conversation about it beforehand.

Yep, that's probably the majority of first.

Times, I think so where there's just no conversation. It just sort of happens in the moment. I mean, that is what happened for us. We didn't really talk about it.

Yeah, you just kind of hope for the best.

And that is something that I wish I could change about our first time. You know, now that I've learned a lot more about sex and communication and relationships, for those early years of my sex life, like, I really didn't have any communication around sex. And I think the majority of people don't. But these are incredibly important topics that we need to talk about. This can be something that you think about on your own first as part of that kind of sexual self discovery piece that we were just talking about. But we do really want to encourage people to talk more openly about these topics before for being intimate with each other. And a lot of times people say like, oh, well, that'll like ruin the vibe or the energy will feel weird. But I just think being able to communicate with somebody is one of the best ways to have amazing sex with them.

Yeah. And also knowing that by having this type of conversation, you are going to come away from that first sexual experience with that person feeling good about safety.

Absolutely. So we're going to talk in a little bit about communication in a more general sense. But we really wanted to start with this idea of protection and consent because it's just so important. I mean, unfortunately, the reality of having sex is that there are a lot of complications that it can throw our way. You know, there are repercussions to having sex. And so I want to be super clear, like when it comes to STIs, sexually transmitted infections, I think there's a really unhelpful way that we talk about them in society. Like, we talk about like, oh, are you clean? As if, like having an STI makes you dirty. We think of STIs as these, like, oh, horrible, like disgusting. I don't want to have that. And I think we really judge and shame people who have STIs. And the reality is that they are incredibly, incredibly prevalent. And you can get an STI even having like protected sex. I mean, a condom is not 100% foolproof method against STIs. And obviously I'm talking about like a, a penis owner and a vulva owner in that particular combination. But any sort of sexual activity is going to have some amount of risk. So I just want to be super clear that I'm not. You know, neither one of us are trying to perpetuate this idea that, like, avoid STIs at all costs because you don't want to be a dirty, gross person. Like, no. STIs are just a reality of us having sex. That being said, like, of course we want it to go into it, being as aware of the situation as possible and doing our best to protect ourselves. Just some really practical things. You know, you might want to decide beforehand, like, what kind of protection do you need to feel good and then.

Bring that protection with you, even if it is not for your body part?

Yeah, absolutely.

I think so many. I think there's this dynamic, especially amongst women, of, like, oh, if I carry around a condom, then I'm gonna look like a slut. I'm gonna look like I really want it. I'm not gonna look like a good girl or something. And it's like, would you rather be safe or would you rather maintain this idea that, like, maybe. Maybe your partner will think something, maybe they won't. If they think something like that, they're probably not a very good partner for you.

Yeah. And we have some pretty hysterical stories from friends who were going in to have sex with somebody and realized in the. In the last moments that they didn't have a condom. And, oh, yes, had to go, like, running out. I had one friend who. He was a guy in of front. He was having sex with a girl, and he ended up having to, like, run into a gay bar because that was the closest thing around, like, just screaming, like, does anybody have a condom, please? And I think someone took pity on him. We have another friend who got. Didn't he get stuck, like, in a stairwell or something? I think he tried to get out, go out to get a condom and got stuck somewhere. I don't know. Just have protection. Bring it with you. You're like a woman, and you're having sex with men, and you want backup options. And, you know, you might want to look into being on, like, getting an iud, being on some sort of birth control. Definitely just do your research beforehand. Talk to your doctor. Another thing is that you might want to have you and your partner get tested beforehand. I think this is a perfect example of, like, conversations that so many of us don't want to have. But I think you deserve to know, you know, what it is that you're going into and to be, like, open and honest with your partner. I just want to Acknowledge, like, it's going to be a challenging conversation for a lot of people to have to initiate the, like, hey, can we get tested? But I think it really can be that casual. Like, you can say something like, hey, I know that we're kind of. We've been spending more time together, we're moving in that direction. I'm not trying to make any assumptions about the exact timing of when this will happen, you know, when we'll have sex, but I would love for us to be prepared for it. So what do you think about both of us just getting tested now?

Yeah, I mean, this may be an easier conversation with the prevalence of like getting a COVID test or something like that, where it's just like, oh, you know, like it's part of our lives now. Like, oh, I need to go wherever, I need to get on this plane or whatever. Like, I'm gonna go get a test or like, you know, visit someone that I haven't seen. I'm getting on a plane and it's like, now it's not that awkward to be like, hey, would you mind getting tested before you come over? Or something like that.

Yeah, absolutely. And there are even at home testing kits now. So, you know. Yeah, check that out. It's definitely a lot different than it was back in our day. Back when you had to Q tip, swab and shoved up your urethra.

Oh, yeah, they don't do that one anymore. They don't do that one anymore. But, yep, I got that. God. Oh, chlamydia. Yeah, that's what it's for. The, the male chlamydia test. I'm pretty sure it's. I don't know what it is now, if it's just like a blood test or something else, but, man, they also did not prepare me for what was about to happen. I was, I was studying abroad in London. I don't know if they, like, did it, if, like the NHS does it different than they would in the US because in the US that never happened. But I also may not have ever been specifically tested for that in the U.S. so who knows? Man, it was, it was. I was, I was. Yeah, I was in for a shock.

And we also want to talk about consent. So I think the reality of a lot of hookups, especially when it's, you know, kind of earlier, you guys aren't really dating. Maybe it's a one night stand kind of thing or you're at a party, but I think the reality of how a lot of hookups unfold is typically it's the man. When it's a male, female coupling, typically it's the man who feels like he's. He is supposed to kind of push things along, you know, go to the next step, and he keeps kind of moving things along until she says no. I mean, I can speak for myself. Like, I've definitely had lots of experiences in the past before I met Xander, where I was the one who felt the pressure to, like, oh, God, I'm supposed to say no at a certain point. And I felt somebody like, you know, putting their hands down my pants or up my shirt or whatever, like, without really asking me. I think that we have started to have such more, like, much more nuanced conversations about consent in the last few years where we're just. We're understanding it in a totally different way. And I'm so, so thankful about that. What we really want to share is, like, just because somebody does not say no, that doesn't mean that they're saying yes. The only yes is a yes. Only a yes is a yes.

Yeah. And I mean, if I could go back and redo our. Our first hookup over again. I really wish I had done a couple of things differently because like you said, the conversation around consent back then, my. It was more. The prevalent understanding was like, no is no.

Yeah.

It wasn't like, blank is not yes.

Yeah.

You sort of expressed a couple times like, oh, I don't want to do anymore. And there was part of me that was wishing, like, oh, maybe we'll get caught up in the moment and then she'll change her mind. And that may be why we made out for six hours.

Well, no, I mean, to be clear, like, you never pressured me and you weren't, like, pushing. Unfortunately, I have had situations like that where somebody, you know, you really feel them, like, pushing for it to go further. You never did that. You never made me feel pressured. You never made me feel bad. And, like, I think we both enjoyed making out with each other just for the sake of making out. Like, we were very, very excited about it.

Oh, yeah.

Okay, so let's move on to our next tip, which is to forget about the three date rule or whatever number.

You want to insert.

Yeah, whatever number you think is the magic number. Because there really is no magic timeline that's going to work forever, everyone.

This is, like, just as much bullshit as the, like, wait X days to call him back or call her back. Exactly. It all depends on the situation and the person. Sorry, people. There is no magic number.

So we asked people on instagram Is it hard for you to figure out when to sleep with someone new for the first time? And 52% of people said yes. This is where we get back to the first tip that we talked about, about really getting clear on what it is that you want, what feels good for you. There are so many other dynamics that can come in and can play a factor in this decision that it's not very healthy to make the decision to sleep with somebody because of reasons like, oh, he'll get bored if I don't sleep with him soon, or it's been X dates already, he or she, or they probably expect it now. Or I want us to be in a relationship like, where you're, you're using sex to like advance the relationship or like get a commitment or monogamy or, you know, whatever, whatever it is. So we really want to encourage you to think about what do you need to feel good about the first time you have sex with a partner so that you're making a decision that feels best for you instead of focusing on the other person.

Yeah, because it's so easy to fall into that trap of like, inference where instead of focusing on what is it that I want, it's like, what do I think the other person wants without ever talking to them. So I'm just trying to interpret their actions. It's like it's a double whammy. It's like I barely know this person, but I think that I can try to figure out what it is they want from a very limited amount of signals that they're given. Giving and then, you know, trying to make a decision that's like, not about you, but it's like, okay, well, it seems like they want it. I won't do it today, but maybe then tomorrow I will. It's like a weird negotiation, like a one sided negotiation that you're having and you're not bringing in any of your own preference. And think about how much easier it would be if you were, if you had taken the time to think in advance of like, oh, what is it that I want? Like, oh, you know, like, hey, I want to have sex with this person. So I'm gonna have a conversation with them about it and talk about making it happen.

And I think it can also be useful to think about this in the context of like, what would make you feel good about this decision regardless of what the outcome is. So let's say like you had sex with somebody and they decided that they didn't want to be in a relationship with you or that they ghosted you or that you did get into, you know, like, into a relationship. So whatever the outcome would be negative, positive, neutral, what decision can you make that you would still feel pretty good about yourself and that decision regardless of what the outcome is? So I'm not saying that, like, if somebody ghosts you that you won't feel any pain afterwards, but can you have that security of knowing, like, you know what, that fucking sucks that that person did that. And my feelings are hurt and I still feel good about the decision that I made and my choice to have sex and be intimate with this person.

When we don't really think about that type of stuff in advance, we fall into this weird, like, mental trap where we all kind of assume that sex is going to be incredible the first time. And so we're like, okay, well, do I want to do this really, really incredible thing? Like, okay? And then if it's not incredible, then we're like, which is far more likely that it's serviceable or okay? And then we're like, oh, God, I don't know how I feel about that. Whereas if you went into it thinking, you know what, like, how would it feel if we have sex for the first time? And, like, it's not very good, or it's like super quick, or, like, I don't really end up feeling any pleasure that might change the calculus for you around, like, how quickly you might want to do it with someone or whatever it might be like, oh, you know what? Like, if. If it is more likely that sex is just going to be pretty blah the first time, I feel a lot more comfortable with that after I've gone on a couple dates with this person. And we, like, feel more comfortable around each other and it's going to be more comfortable like, you know, lying around in bed after that, that first time experience, that was just okay because we feel comfortable with each other and know that, you know, maybe when we try it again tomorrow, it might get better. Yeah.

And I think it's also important for us to be honest with ourselves about what sex typically brings up for us. So we always get the question of, like, oh, well, but what if I get like, you know, emotionally attached? And I think that's such a perfect example of something that you should get to know about yourself, like, based on your past sexual history. Does sex typically create or lead to emotional attachment for you? So if so, then maybe that's a good sign to you that you want to wait a little bit longer to have sex with somebody new or you want to wait until you are in a relationship or there has been some sort of serious conversation. Another thing, to be honest with yourself is like, do you tend to get caught up in the moment and make decisions that you regret later? So I remember in college, I had a lot of friends who would kind of decide beforehand, like, I am not hooking up with anybody tonight. And they would wear, like, the ugliest granny panties that they had, sort of, like, ensure that they weren't gonna do it no matter what happened, because it was like, you know, I do not want anybody seeing these underwear. So this is, like my little security blanket to make sure I don't.

Was that effective for them, or did that just lead to more, like, embarrassing situations when getting caught up in the moment?

I. I think both happened. So I'm not saying that the granny panties are the best option, but sometimes it can be, you know, it's just useful to think about, like, yeah, do I tend to get caught up in the moment? And then that's a good reminder to give yourself in the moment if you're like, okay, I'm on board. Let's go. Hey, wait a second. Don't I usually tend to do this, and then don't I usually end up, like, wishing I hadn't later?

Hey, wait a second. I forgot my granny panties. I gotta go home. No, but, you know, I think my pro tip would be, instead of doing something like, Vanessa just. Just described, like, putting on something that is gonna. That you think is gonna be, like, hideous or prevent you from having sex. The fact that you're thinking about that is probably a good sign that you should have a conversation with the person you're considering having sex with so that you don't have to, like, wear some underwear that you don't like or. I don't. I'm trying to think of, like, yeah, where my, like, spaceship boxers or something. I don't actually have spaceship boxers. We saw some pictures of some funny male underwear the other day. It just made me think of that.

The elephant with, like, the trunk.

Yeah, there was one that was a. It was like a space shuttle rocket ship.

Jeff Bezos, his rocket ship. Another super practical tip around this is don't drink. Like, don't drink very much or don't drink at all so that you can make more clear decisions in the moment. And we got a lot of stories from people saying, like, you know, yeah, when I drink, I kind of lose my inhibitions. I make decisions that I end up regretting later. And, yeah, like we were saying earlier, I think probably the majority of first time sex is, you know, where at least one person is drinking or, you know, is drunk. And of course, this can also lead to complications with consent as well. So I just think it's a really good idea and maybe it could even be a little rule that you make for yourself of, I don't have sex with, with anybody if I've been drinking that night. Obviously, this is not a rule that's gonna, like, work for 100% of the people, but, you know, for a lot of people, it might be a good one. Let's move on to our next tip, which we've sort of hinted at already, which is to normalize talking about it right from the beginning. So we asked people on Instagram, like, the last time you had sex with someone new, did you talk about it beforehand or did it just happen? And a whopping 73% of people said that it just happened. So, you know, I want to acknowledge, like, sometimes it is fun to just get caught up in the moment and it just happens. And, you know, every once in a while, like, that actually can be like a good and fun experience. So I'm not trying to make any, like, hard and fast, absolute rules that everybody has to follow at all times here. But obviously, Xander and I are big proponents of communication. We're, you know, trying to give you the tools and techniques that you need to feel more comfortable and confident with communication. So, of course, like, we want to encourage people to talk about sex before you have it. And it's kind of funny that we. Sex is so intimate. To get naked with another person, to have your hands and mouth all up in them, to penetrate or be penetrated by another person, like that is insanely intimate. Even if it's just in a casual setting where you're somebody that you've just met or a friend of yours, whatever it is like that is so intimate. And the fact that we can't open our mouths and say words to this person that we are allowing to penetrate us, we're penetrating them or whatever it is, like, that's kind of bananas.

Oh, yeah.

So, yeah, a lot of people said, I just kind of hope for the best. A lot of people told us, you know, I've been taught to believe that great sex should just happen, that we shouldn't need to communicate at all. But we just think that it's so much better and so for so many different reasons to communicate about sex. So get on the same page about consent, about protection. It can be super hot to talk about your needs and your desires. I think I remember that from. I don't know if it was our first time or maybe one of our early times of like we. We were talking, you know, through the experience and I think kind of teasing each other, like, do you want this? Do you want that? Do you want more of that? Like, that is so hot. Like, consent doesn't need to be this. Excuse me, miss, Would you give me your permission for me to remove your clothing one piece at a time? Like, it doesn't have to be this cold, robotic kind of thing. Another great thing can be to talk about sex afterwards too. So we sometimes refer to this as like the little post sex recap session.

Like post game?

Yeah, the post game. Like after there's a sports game, the announcers talk about it afterwards, go through the big plays, what happened, kind of break things down. And talking about sex afterwards can be really, really fun.

I mean, this is a really great time to just build sort of to develop your vulnerability with this new person and also figure out like, what they like, how your likes and their likes fit together. I do think it is important I will call out because we have heard some people talk about this especially we've got some DMS from people on Instagram that the post sex recap session is meant to be light and fun. You don't need to go through every single detail of what just happened. You know, I think that some. Sometimes there can be a tendency to be like, okay, well, okay, we're talking about it. Like, so what about that? What about that? What about that? You know, stick to the. The notable plays, so to speak.

The big ones. The big plays. All right, and the last tip that we want to talk about is to normalize that first time sex is rarely great.

Oh, yeah, we've already talked about this a lot.

But yeah, it doesn't mean that you're not compatible if your first time is. Isn't great. It's just that it takes time to build chemistry and connection with somebody and we are definitely the poster children for that. What does poster child come from? What is that saying?

I mean, I'm just thinking of like a lost child on a poster.

I don't think that's a. You don't want to be the lost child. So why would I ever want to be a poster child for something?

You know, it's probably, it's probably from back. Back when, pre TV advertising, when there would be a lot of billboards and posters and stuff. And they're just a ma. You know, if you think about it.

Why is it A child though. Why not the poster adult?

It's like Mikey likes it. Mikey on the poster.

Another big component of like first time sex. It can be a lot harder to feel pleasure and especially to orgasm with somebody brand new. So we had some really interesting Instagram polls for this. So we asked men and women separately, do you typically orgasm the first time you have sex with a new partner? So of the women, 10% said yes, I typically orgasm the first time I have sex with someone new.

And for men, 90%.

Holy shit.

So that's not very fair.

Uh huh.

Then again, I can speak from experience. There are some first time jitters. You know, as a man it can be a challenge when you are not entirely in control, especially your first time. You have very little control over that body part if you are falling into that. Like the intercourse myth of like, you know, the sex that we have has to be pnv. It has to be like increasing in intensity like you're pro, you know, like just like how I thought the first time we did it, like, like it's gonna be over fairly quick. For many men, however, I have a different understanding of what sex can be now. And yeah, it does not have to be like that.

We talk about this a lot with men and women who sleep together. That the way that, you know, we're taught heterosexual sex should be like, it does very heavily emphasize male pleasure. Like you're doing the activities, you know, intercourse is the activity that feels really pleasurable for men and is not typically the most pleasurable activity for most women. It can be really challenging, you know, especially if you're a woman having sex with men, to feel a lot of pleasure and to orgasm. So we have heard some stories from people who say, you know, I try to use sex with somebody new as an opportunity to, you know, try to advocate for myself more, to ask for what I want. Some people feel like it's easier for them to have those kinds of conversations with someone new versus somebody where you're already like in a relationship and, and maybe the stakes feel higher to have that kind of communication but.

Or you feel like you're locked in because like we've already, we have this pattern of what we do and I haven't said anything. Yeah, that you feel like you've given like implicit consent for this pattern by not saying anything. But the lack of a no is not a yes. So.

So if you're a woman having sex with men, I think it's really important to advocate for yourself and to ask for your partner to, to use Their hands to do oral sex, to use toys. Like, don't just put all of the emphasis on intercourse itself. Do the things that bring you more pleasure and are going to make it more likely for you to orgasm. And kind of the flip side of that coin is to not fake anything. I mean, I think that so many of us women in particular, like, we feel this pressure to fake orgasms. We've done episodes about this before, but you really don't want to pigeonhole yourself. We hear so many stories when people say, like, oh, well, I faked it the first time, so then it felt like I had to fake it the second time. And now it's 10 years later, and I've never had a real orgasm with my partner. So even if you're feeling shy about asking for what you want, making requests like, at the very least, don't fake anything. Don't pigeonhole yourself. Don't dig yourself into a hole that you're then gonna have to climb out of later. And finally, I think there's really an opportunity to treat each new partner as a fresh slate. And I think this is a way that we can all contribute to better sex in the world. Is that, like, don't assume that because something works for a past partner, it will work for this partner.

Yeah, I think that's something that happens so frequently. I know I have fallen prey to that. You know, it's like, oh, yeah, you know, that. That thing that I did, it worked so great for my last girlfriend. So I just keep doing this, and we never talk about it. I just do it, and it's going to be great. The reality is everyone is so different. It's such a good opportunity to just be like, hey, this is a new thing that we're doing, and let's make it awesome by talking about it and figuring out what's going to make it awesome.

That could even be an interesting way to open up a conversation, is to tell your partner, like, hey, in the past, I've tended to just assume that what works works for my past partners. Like, works for everyone. And I'm really trying to break that habit. So I want to know about you. Like, what feels good to you? What do you. Like, what are you into?

Yeah. And if you are not, like, immediately sure of what that is, then, like, let's try some stuff and, like, be in communication about it together. Because I think the thing you want to be careful of is, like, not putting all this, you know, not going on the flip side and putting all this pressure on the person all Right. We're talking about it. So now give me the list of the 10 things that are. That are going to work. I think you have to be aware that, that having that conversation, you might get some really great specific feedback from a person. You might kind of get a blank look of, or like a deer in the headlights kind of look of like, oh, God, I don't know. So I think you also gotta be ready to be like, okay, no worries. Like, but like, what's important to me is just that, you know, we're intentional about what we're doing and making sure we're doing stuff that's gonna work for each of us. So I'll be in touch with you vocally throughout this I'll be in touch.

With you throughout this sexual experience, literally and figuratively.

Maybe don't say it exactly like that.

Yeah. So we got a quote from somebody on Instagram that really illustrated this challenge. They said, I tend to get really in my head because my natural inclination is to do the things that I know worked for my last partner. And it's not fair to expect someone new to respond in the same ways. Communication can be a challenge when you're getting to know someone new. So asking what makes someone feel good or what they want doesn't always feel natural or easy. We definitely understand that these conversations can be challenging. It's stuff that we're not used to doing. I think this person really understands and appreciates. Yeah, it's not really fair for me to be approaching every partner as if they're going to be exactly the same as my last partner.

All right, let's get into a couple questions now.

All right.

I'm dating again after ending a 10 year relationship. I have a sense of grief around not having that familiarity with my partner's body. Like, and dislikes. How do I get over that?

Yeah, this question is kind of like similar to that last point that we were discussing. So what jumps out at me with this one is that there is this sense of grief around getting back out there and starting to have sex with somebody new. Like, yeah, I can speak for myself. Like, if we broke up today, I would feel so overwhelmed about the idea of, you know, having sex with someone new for the first time. Like, we've had so much sex together. I'm like, very used to how it works between the two of us. So I think that it's really important to take the time and, like, acknowledge that grief and that sense of loss. We do this around breakups, but I don't think we do this around, like, the sexual aspect of it. Of, like. Yeah. That level of familiarity that you've developed. So give yourself time to grieve that, you know, that loss and to feel that sadness around having sex with someone new. And hopefully that if you allow yourself to have those feelings. So go back and listen to our episode about feelings and how to deal with them, then maybe that'll make some space for you to then let. Start to let some excitement come in as well.

Yeah. And I think if this is something that's coming up for you, that sense of grief, that may be a good sign for you that maybe you shouldn't jump into having sex with someone new immediately, because if you don't, you have an opportunity to become more familiar with that person's body and likes and dislikes before it becomes sexual. So that could be a. If you wait a while to have sex but, you know, you slowly get, you know, more intimate with them, there's a way to kind of build some of that familiarity with that person before jumping into it. Because that just sounds overwhelming.

Yeah.

All right, so the next question is how to say no respectfully and set boundaries.

So the word that popped out at me in this question is respectfully. Of course, all of our communication to other people should be respectful. But I kind of was getting this vibe from that question that the person asking it is more focused on how their partner will receive it. And that's not really. Like, we don't want to be thinking about that. Like, you get to set your own boundaries for yourself. And of course you don't want to, like, scream your boundaries at another person, be like, hey, asshole. Like, these are my boundaries, you know, when they haven't done anything yet. So of course we want to be, like, respectful, but it's not your job to be, like, caretaking the other person and making sure, like, oh, are they going to be okay with me saying no? Or is it going to hurt their feelings or upset them if I say no? Like, if somebody gets upset about you saying no, then they do not deserve to be having sex with you.

Yeah. I think it's so easy for us all to play this game where we just, like, try to. We try to, like, read our partner's mind even though we barely know them, and it's like, oh, well, what. What must they be thinking? What are they going to think. Think if I say this, how do I manage their perception of me without ever, even, like, talking to them about it?

Absolutely. So, I mean, in terms of setting boundaries, I mean, this is go Back to the first step that we talked about. Like, you take some time to feel into for yourself, like what feels good and healthy and right for you. And then I would say, you know, having a conversation with your partner about consent and about what those boundaries are and sharing them with confidence. You know, I'm realizing that something that we forgot to talk about with consent is also the element of like enthusiastic consent. So this idea that I'm not. It's not that I'm saying, like, okay, yeah, sure, that's fine, we can do that. You know, it's instead, it's enthusiastic, like, yes, hell yes, I want to do that with you. And so if you're not a hell yes, that's a no as well. And so I think, you know, you can have that kind of conversation with your partner as well where you talk about it. But yeah, I'd say just share your boundaries with confidence and with the knowledge that it's your body and you get to decide what the hell you want to do with your own body.

This idea of, like, I need to say no respectfully, because I have these boundaries is. It is much easier to share your boundaries in advance of something turning intimate or sexual than it is in the moment. Things are heightened in the moment and there can be much more of a worry, I guess, of like, by sharing a boundary and maybe someone reacting poorly, I think you're much more likely to be able to clearly state your boundaries way before it turns sexual. That being said, you should absolutely share your boundaries in any situation, whether it's sexual or non sexual. But an idea is, don't wait for the last second if, if you have another option.

Yeah. And I think just to make it super practical, it can sound as simple as, hey, just so you know, XYZ is off the table for me, but ABC is gladly on the table or, you know, whatever it is. But it really can be as simple as just, hey, just so you know, I think we used the phrase earlier. Like, it seems like things are moving in this direction and I just want you to know ahead of time, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, so it really does not need to be this like, okay, can we sit down and have like a very serious conversation? And, you know, here's my contract that I've written up and I would like you, for you to sign like, like we can just share it with confidence and with ease. All right, now we have a couple questions for you.

Oh, boy.

So this is one that actually comes up all the time. I have no idea what's in style for pubic hair. And I'm really anxious about this for some reason. This came from a woman, and she wanted to know, what do guys like in terms of pubic hairstyles?

Well, I'm about to be honest with you. I have no idea what is in style for pubic hair, either for men or for women. So I don't know. But, I mean, here's. Here's what I think about this one. It is so much more about how you carry yourself regardless of what your pubic hair situation is than it is about the pubic hair. I think that if you let things like, oh, my God, what do I do about this pubic hair? Control you and make you, you know, then you're, like, really nervous and anxious. If that is the situation. If you do your pubic hair in the way that you think everyone is doing it and that makes you feel nervous and uncomfortable, like, your partner is going to pick up on that.

Yeah.

I think the more important thing is be the you that you feel good about being and your partner.

Be the pubic hair that you want to see in the world.

Yeah. Be the pubic hair that you want to see on you or anyone else. That confidence is contagious. And so do what is going to make you feel confident.

Yeah. Who gives a shit what everybody else is doing with their pubic hair? I don't think there is, like, a defined trend that everybody's doing. Even if there is, who cares? What do you feel good about?

Yeah. What do you feel good about? And on. Also, the reality is, even if you are following the trends, your partner is going to have their own ideas of what they like. Like, just because it's a trend doesn't mean that all people of the opposite sex or whatever sex of people that you're sleeping with are going to like that. Like, there's just no guarantee. So why try to do that?

Yeah. All right, next question for you. Do you guys really want us women to tell them what we need to get off?

Yes, I think so. The situation that I can think of where I think a guy would not want that is a guy who has this idea, this outdated idea. There is a right way and a wrong way to give pleasure to a woman. There's a. He has figured out the way to, like, make women come that he's so good at having. Having sex because of his past experience. And so if that is your way of thinking about things and seeing the world and seeing sex, I could understand how possibly you might be like, oh, no, I just Want to show you how great I am. If you are a little more evolved, let's say, and you understand the nuances of how female orgasm works, how pleasure works, how all of our bodies are different, if you yourself have experienced how how something that worked really well for one partner didn't work for another partner, then, yeah, I think by all means. You want to know if there's something that my partner really likes, I want to know. Absolutely. Otherwise, it's like taking a shot in the dark. Like, oh, does what about this? Does that work? Does that work? Then it's like a pop quiz, and you're like, oh, my God, I wasn't prepared for this.

All right, so I know we have talked a lot about talking about sex, and this is something that obviously is, like, really intimidating for a lot of us. We just don't have a ton of practice. We're taught to believe that we don't need to do it. All kinds of stuff comes up. So you know that we have your back with this. We have a free guide called how to talk about sex for the first time, even if you never have before. So we'll put the link to download that for free in the show notes to this episode. So definitely make sure to check that out. It'll walk you through really specific steps for getting more comfortable talking about sex and being able to have these kinds of conversations that will lead to you having fantastic sex with someone new for the first time.

All right, that's all for today's episode of Pillow Talks. Thank you so much for listening. Can't wait to have you join us again next week. Now, do you have a question that you want answered on the podcast? If so, leave us a message at 774p I l l o w y. That's 774 pillow one. So, yeah, just leave us a voicemail. Don't worry, no one is ever going to pick up that line. It goes straight to voicemail 100% of the time. We will answer your sex and relationship questions on the podcast.

All right, thanks for listening.

See you next time.

Sat.