EPISODE 34: I Want You To Want Me

You know, on the surface, we're talking about sex. Do you want to have sex? No, I don't want to have sex. Yes, I do want to have sex. But what we're really talking about on top of the sex, is also the emotional intimacy. That feeling of closeness, of connection, of feeling important to each other, prioritized by each other. Hello, and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Xander Marin. I'm a sex therapist with over 20 years of experience.

And I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.

Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. I hate to do this to you, babe, but there is a perfect song that you could sing.

I want you to want me. I need you to want me. No, but.

Oh, so close. I thought you were gonna get more than one line of a song.

What's next? What'd I miss?

I need you to need me.

I need you to need me.

Okay, do you know the third line?

No. I was. As I was singing, I need you to want me, I was like, I can hear it in my head, but I don't know how to say it.

The third line, I think is, I'd love you to love me.

Ah, that makes a lot of sense.

Yeah. What was that from? Never Been Kissed. Did they have that in that movie?

No idea.

Oh, God, that was such a classic Drew Barrymore. Good movie. Anyways, today we are talking about I want you to want me. What it feels like to want your partner to desire you to want to feel desired by your partner. This topic was really inspired by a couple that I saw years and years ago. It was a male and female couple. This was back when we were living in San Francisco. I was seeing people in an office.

Wow.

Oh, my gosh.

Shocking.

And so they were in my office. The husband started talking about feeling this lack of connection with his wife. And she just had this look of astonishment on her face, like she just really did not get why he was not feeling connected to her. And she said, we have sex all the time. I say yes all the time. Like, what's the problem? He said. He's like, it's not about you just saying yes to sexual. I want you to want me. I want you to want to have sex with me. To desire me, not just to lay there and like, let me have sex with you.

Yeah. Like, it's not a transactional thing.

Yeah. So I just really remember this moment standing out for me. And it's unfortunately a dynamic that repeated itself many, many, many times over the years. And I think in particular in heterosexual relationships, there can be this dynamic where the woman is forcing herself to, like, go along with it, just throw her partner a bone, be a good partner in the bedroom. And I think in particular, we women are socialized to believe that it's our responsibility to meet all of our partner's sexual needs. I mean, you still even hear these seemingly outdated phrase, like your wifely duty, but we get that in our DMs all the time.

Oh, yeah.

I feel like I'm supposed to just satisfy my partner and do what they want me to do. So there are a lot of couples, unfortunately, where they might be having a lot of sex. The frequency number is pretty high, but they're both feeling wildly disconnected and they're both feeling really unhappy about it. So I started with this example of this husband and wife couple that I saw. And I did mention that women in particular, we are socialized to believe we're supposed to take care of our partner's needs. But I do also want to mention that this dynamic happens a lot the other way around. It's the woman who has the higher sex drive and she's feeling there's, you know, we're going to get into this, but, like, it's a totally different dynamic, but the same feeling of like, oh, my gosh, like, I want my partner to want me, not just to agree with it or go along with it, but to actually desire me. And of course, this happens in, like, relationships of all orientations.

Yeah, I was going to say, I think this is something that can just come up. In general, when two people have different sex drives, it can be very often that the person with perhaps the lower sex drive feels like all I need to do to find fix this problem. I'm putting this problem in air quotes here because I think it's mismatched. Sex drives is not really the problem that we think it is. But the person who feels like I have the problem so I just am going to push myself to do it more, even though I don't really want to. And that will solve the problem because then that's all my partner wants. They just want my body. They just want to get off. And it just ends up creating this yucky feeling situation for both people.

Neither partner in the relationship in these kinds of situations feels good about what's going on. So in this episode, we're kind of breaking it down into two different sections. We're gonna be talking to the partner who wants to feel desired to the partner who's saying, I want you to want me.

The I want you to want me, partner.

Yes, the I want you to want me partner. And we are gonna be talking to the partner who may or may not. We're gonna get into that feel that desire. We're going to talk about why we want to feel desired by our partners. Like, why is this even important in the first place? The problem with forcing yourself to have sex, other than just the obvious that you should never be forcing yourself to have sex. Solutions for when you're not feeling desire for your partner and how to help your partner feel desired.

Before we do any of that, we have to do the usual review of the week where I tend to make a fool of myself. I'm quickly scanning this with my eyes. I think this week I may not make a fool of myself. A fellow pug owner loves this great teaser. Oh, the username. I'm not gonna read it out, but this person's username. Pretty fire username. I think you could read it. I guess I can read it out. You can find this on itunes if you want. Puglova for ife. This is actually like us, maybe for life was taken. So took the L out. Number four yfe.

Oh, my God.

Wow. So to this person, if you're listening.

Or maybe it's his wife. Pug lover for wife.

Pug lover. Fife. Fife. Maybe their last name is Fife. That's a possibility. I don't know if you're listening to this and you wrote this. You know, maybe check your grammar and your spelling.

No, we want it. We want to know the story behind pug lover for wife for ice. It reminds me of, like, old AIM screen names.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It was like, oh, no, I. I can't get that with the l. So let's just see how many letters we can remove and people still understand what I'm trying to say.

You could be a pug lover for wife. You love pugs because of me.

Yeah, true.

I don't know. Happy that you love pug, but where.

Are you getting wife from? There's no W. Y.

There's a Y. A Y, Y, F, E. Y, F, E, wife.

This is. This kind of falls into what we're talking about here. This person is not really a pug lover. They're just a pug lover for their wife. You know, it's like, well, all right, just, you know, have sex with me, whatever. I know you want to get off. I know you want pugs, so I'll just be your pug lover for wife.

I never did. I think we would get into such a tangent just from the title and the username of a review.

Deep man, do I even need to read the review now?

Yes, you do.

All right, I just started listening to Pillow Talk. You know what, whoever wrote this, you.

Were feeling sassy today. You were rude to this wonderful person who left us a five star review, and they're a pug lover.

Thank you so much. Please, please don't edit your review unless you want to fix the grammar.

It's just one letter.

There's already. I'm two lines in. There's already two plural, singular, plural problems. All right, I just started listening to Pillow Talks and binge the entire series in just a few days. Oh, God, this person is definitely gonna hear this. I've been with my partner for nine years and we have had some issues. I sometimes feel like Vanessa and Xander are talking directly to us. They are funny, charming, and knowledgeable. The fact that they own pug makes me love them way more. I have a 9 year old Pug dog pig emoji, which is very appropriate for a pug because pugs are kind of like pigs. They sound like pigs when they grunt and grumble. I've never related to a podcast more and I look forward to the next episode. Pointing at the phone emoji.

What is that supposed to be?

It's just like, get it on your phone.

Get it on.

Check your phone, Check your phone, look at your phone.

All right, Pug lover for life. We really love you and your pug and we appreciate you, appreciate this review very, very much. Thank you for giving us a good giggle today.

If you're doing it for your wife too. We also love your wife.

And if you have not heard us talk about this yet, we do a weekly review of the week giveaway. So how it works is you leave a review for us on Apple Podcasts. I always want to say itunes.

No, it used to be. It used to be. Now it's Apple Podcasts.

Leave a review for us there and once a week we pick a review of the week to be featured. If you're the winner, you can DM us on Instagram anessamarintherap and we will give you a free mini, personalized private coaching session. So you can just DM us with your question, let us know that you're the review winner and we will respond with that coaching session. It's just our way of saying thank you for taking the time to leave these reviews. It really means so much to us to see the reviews come in, so thank you.

Alternatively, if you would prefer to just have some pug videos, we can also arrange for that instead of your coaching session. If you just want to, like, hang out with Winston and Maggie, we can. Sure. We can spend the same amount of time just. Oh my gosh, playing with the pugs.

Should we get a video chat going with this person's nine year old pug and our pugs?

Yeah, for sure.

Chat each other.

Yeah.

All right, well, let us know if you want that as your prize.

Puggy FaceTime.

All right, so let's get into it. Wow, that was quite a tangent for our review of the week. That was a good one.

Yeah, let's go. We got some ground to make up.

I'll talk fast. So, as always, we went over to our Instagram community to ask them some questions about this topic.

We've got to get that data.

Yes, we do. So first we asked, do you feel desired by your partner? So we were curious to know, as it is right now, are people feeling desired by their partner? We have mentioned this before, but I think we have to give the caveat here that our audience is extremely heavily female. So vast majority of these respondents are women.

Yeah. If you have a male partner and you follow us, get your male partner to follow us.

We need some more men in the community.

Help us help you.

70% of people said, yes, they do feel desired by their partner. I was pretty surprised by that. Pleasantly surprised. I think that's great.

Again, the other caveat is that our audience follows us. They take a lot of our advice, and oftentimes their relationships are much better on average than the typical person. So I'd like to say these numbers are probably a bit inflated. More than the general population, of course.

But this was interesting. We asked a follow up question. Do you find yourself wishing you felt more desired by your partner? So this is really interesting. 70% of people said, yes, they do feel desired, but 56% said they want to feel more desired. So it's kind of funny. It's like you're feeling some sort of baseline level of it sometimes.

They want me.

It doesn't feel like enough. Right. So still the majority of people want to feel more desired. And then we also asked, do you think your partner wants to feel more desired by you. And almost 80% of people said yes.

Interesting. Very interesting.

Super creepy. All right, so let's break this episode down. We are going to start off with the partner who wants to feel desired. The I want you to want me partner. And we wanted to kind of kick this one off by talking a little bit about our own experiences of wanting to feel desired by each other. So we've been really transparent about the fact that our relationship, our sex life, has gone through ups and downs. You know, we've had periods of our relationship where I had the higher sex drive than Xander, periods where Xander had the higher sex drive than me, periods where it was kind of roughly even. So we've kind of been through all of it, and I was thinking back about my experiences of wanting to feel more desired by you, and they definitely lined up with the times where your sex drive was lower than mine. So I think, you know, when we are kind of roughly in the same place, I'll have twinges of wanting to feel desired by you. Like, it feels fine and manageable. It doesn't ever feel like a thing. But when it's coupled with you, on average, like, having a lower sex drive than me, it definitely feels much more powerful in a negative way. So when I think back on those times, like, what comes up for me is embarrassment and shame. Those were the two biggest feelings. I want him to want me. Why doesn't he? And it was very easy to, like, turn it around and, like, really internalize it. Like, something is wrong with me that he doesn't want me. It typically, like, wasn't a question of, like, what's going on with him? Why doesn't he have a higher sex drive? It was like, something is wrong with me. And in particular for us, those periods of our relationship, you were really busy. You were really stressed out. You were working really long hours. I remember just feeling like I wanted to feel more important to you. I felt like I wasn't a priority. I wasn't, like, a huge part of your life. I wanted to feel more important. And then in particular, like, as a woman in this heterosexual relationship, feeling like we were going through this stage where you had a lower sex drive, it brought up a lot of gender issues for me. And even though, like, at the time that this was going on, I was studying to be a sex therapist, and I didn't want to have these gender stereotypes of, like, how heterosexual relationships were supposed to be, but I definitely did still feel that in the back of my head. It was this feeling of, like, he's a Man, isn't he supposed to want me? So what is wrong with me? Don't men always want to have sex? Aren't men always turned on? They, you know, so again, it contributed to that feeling of it being internalized for me, of like, something is wrong with me. I'm not pretty enough, I'm not sexy enough, I'm not thin enough. Like, you know, it went to a lot of weird places in my head, but it felt like it was very much about me.

And then on the flip side. Wow. I think we're going to. No, we are leaving. Did you record that? No. Okay. All right.

You're getting all vulnerable and serious. You come in at me with your 14 year old voice cracking on the backside. Way to break the tension, babe.

Yeah. All right. So on the flip side for me, on the flip side, times where the tables have been turned a bit, I can say what it's like for me is if I'm feeling Vanessa is not so into me in, you know, that moment or that week or that month or whatever is going on, it's felt hard for me. Like, it feels like it's. Anytime I try to initiate any type of intimacy, unless it goes perfectly, I feel like I'm just being a bother to Vanessa. Like, oh, well, I'm just like, kind of like a sad puppy that's trying to be like, hey, play with me, play with me.

And, oh, well, a puppy is never a bother.

Oh, okay. Well, here maybe we're figuring out a way to turn this around. I just. We got to play a little puppy scene.

That's a separate podcast episode. You know what's kind of interesting? I know we're talking about your experience right now, and I want to get back to that, but it's funny to hear you say, like, that you felt like a bother to me because in the times where you have had a higher sex drive than me, if I'm thinking back to some of the moments when you've initiated sex and I was just not into it, it has felt really easy to get into this sort of mindset of like. Like that you're just a guy just pushing for sex, you know, and like, and some. Sometimes it has felt bothersome, even though I know it's not. And I don't want to feel that way. I don't think that way about our sex life. I don't want you to feel that way about me. I think it's just an example for me of how those gender stereotypes, they just get into the backs of our heads. So Strongly that it makes it easy to feel like, here he is again, just wanting sex.

Yeah. And then for me, the exact same thing comes up. I'm like, oh, I'm such a bother. I'm such, like, a guy. What's wrong with me? I just want sex. And, like, she's not open to anything else. Like, it feels shameful. Like, oh, what's wrong with me that all I want is sex? Even though that's not the thing that I really want. Maybe the sex itself is the thing that's getting turned down.

So what is it that you really want?

I mean, I think what I really want in those moments is, like, I want to be seen emotionally. I want to be able to express my emotions to you. And I think in this society, as a man, very often the only ways that we feel comfortable expressing emotion is through sex, or the only way we are expected to display emotion is through sex. And then it ends up just feeling kind of shameful when it's like, oh, like, I'm getting turned down for the thing I want to do to be able to feel more connected, but then I can't do it. And then I'm like. And then I feel judgmental of myself, of like, oh, I'm such, like, a typical guy. All I want is sex. What's wrong with me?

Yeah. Yeah. I think this is one of the big mistakes we make in relationships, is that, you know, on the surface, we're talking about sex. Do you want to have sex? No, I don't want to have sex. Yes, I do want to have sex. But what we're really talking about on top of the sex is also the emotional intimacy, that feeling of closeness, of connection, of feeling important to each other, prioritized by each other. So we're just having this conversation on the surface about sex, and we're missing all those underlying layers. It's like all this stuff that's going left unspoken. And I think you make a really good point about. With men in particular, you're not given the same social permission that women are to be, like, emotional creatures. And it does feel like the only way that men feel comfortable asking for closeness is through sex. But so often, like, women read that as you're just trying to get off again. And, like, like I was saying, it was very easy for it to feel that way for me, even knowing full well that, like, what you're really asking for is emotional intimacy and closeness on top of the physical closeness.

Yeah. And it can also be a real challenge because, let's say in one of those moments, I was able to feel into what was going on for me, and I was able to express. You know, I actually. I really just want to be able to express some emotion or to be more seen emotionally. It would feel really challenging in that moment to be like, how do we actually do this? It feels like she doesn't want me. I don't feel safe expressing that right now. Like, she's probably going to turn me down anyway. So why do I want to express? I feel challenged sharing my emotions with her.

So, like, once I've turned you down for sexual, it feels too scary to then say, hey, actually, what I was looking for was, like, closeness, wanting to feel close to you.

Yeah, I think so. It would feel really vulnerable.

What about leading with that? Hey, I'm wanting to feel closer.

Yeah, I mean, I think. I think if you kind of peel it back, ideally in a relationship, you're both able to talk about what your needs are, how you want to be able to express emotion, how you want to feel intimacy before you get to a point where you feel this wild mismatch in sex drives. So that when you get to that point, you have the tools to be able to express what is it that you are really wanting or needing in a certain moment. It's. Once you get to that moment and you don't have this baseline understanding of, like, the various ways that you can express yourself to the other, then you get there and you're like, oh, God, I don't know what to do.

So let's kind of take a step back and talk about, like, what is feeling wanted? Really feel like. Like, what is that experience that we're going for? Like, I want you to want me. I mean, I was thinking about it and something that came up for me was wanting to feel like you're really present in that moment with me. Like, you're really there with me.

Oh, yeah. Like, you're not looking ahead to, like, oh, what's next on the calendar? What's happening 10 minutes from now? Are we gonna be late? Whatever.

Yeah. And like, that there's nothing else that you would rather be doing in that moment. You're, like, there with me, and that's what you want to be doing. And I think the sense of, like, actively being chosen in that moment too.

Yeah, I kind of just like, had a visualization of, like, you're trying to initiate some type of intimacy, whether it's sex or not sex or just some kind of connection or cuddling or closeness, and imagining your partner of kind, pausing, maybe Looking at their watch or at their phone or, like. And you can kind of see the gears turning of, how much time do we have? Is this. Is this okay? Like, do I have time for this? Do I want to do this? And you're just like, ugh, I just feel something so deflating. Oh, I just want this nice moment. And then the partner's like, oh, hold on. Let me think of. Let me think through this logically rather than emotionally.

Yeah. The word that is, like, coming to mind. Hearing you say that is spaciousness. Like, you want to feel like you guys have the space for each other. I can definitely think of times where you've initiated sex with me, and my mind has gone to, oh, well, I still have to fold the laundry, and we have to get to bed early tonight because we have this thing in the morning, and, like, I'm trying to fit in. How many minutes do I have for you?

Oh, yeah, I'm sure I've done the same thing, too.

And it feels shitty, even if that is the logistical reality. Like, yeah, we're all busy. We're doing a lot of things. It's hard to make it take time for each other in our lives. But, like, that feeling of you can see your partner. Exactly what you were saying, like, doing that calculation of, okay, well, can you get this done in, like, 4 minutes and 30 seconds? Because that's all I have for you. And, like, how shitty does that feel in an entire day? That's all the time that my partner has for me, especially if what we're talking about is that emotional intimacy and connection, not just the, like, yeah, sure, you could probably get it done in 4 minutes and 30 seconds if we're talking about just, like, a pure physical experience. Otherwise, it's like, yeah, it feels really bad.

Yeah, I mean, it makes it all about the time it was like, oh, okay, well, here you got four minutes. And that just strips all of the emotion out of it.

Yeah. So we have some advice to you, dear listener. The I want you to want me partner. The first thing we want to say is, do not hide your own desire.

Oh. Because I think this happens so frequently.

Both of us have done this before. Like, you feel like my partner doesn't want me, so I don't want to put myself out there too much and show them how I want them. It's sort of like playing games early in a relationship, like, punishing your partner. Oh, we'll get to that in a second. But it's like this kind of like, yeah, I don't want you to think that I like you more than you like me kind of thing. So a lot of times we end up trying to, like, pretend, oh, I don't really want you, but the reality is that doesn't feel good for you at all. Like, it feels incredibly stifling to try to, like, hide your own desire. And I think there's also something to be said about setting an example for your partner. Like, we all struggle with sexuality in one way or another. Your partner may have a lot of really crappy socialization that they're dealing with around being allowed to express their desire, being allowed to be a sexual person. And they may kind of need you to, like, be a role model for them. They may need to see it in action. And I'm not saying that's fair. That can feel really hard and painful in a relationship. But if you don't ever show your desire and your partner has no model of what does it look like to show desire in a relationship, you're gonna get into a stuck place really fast.

Oh, yeah. Because what happens so frequently, especially if you yourself are struggling with a lower desire or lower sex drive, is, I think, so frequently we bury our heads in the sand and we go, okay, I can tell that there's a mismatch in our drives. I can tell that I am feeling less desire than I usually do. I don't want to acknowledge that because that would feel yucky to me. And so instead, I'm going to pretend that it's not an issue. And so then you might turn your partner down a couple of times, and you can tell that they're disappointed. And then your partner goes, okay, well, I put myself out there a couple times now. I'm going to, like, try to shut my own stuff down and pretend that I'm not interested and stop initiating. And all of a sudden, you, the lower desire partner, is like, oh, great, they stopped. Like, everything must be cool now. And so that's just a recipe for things to continue and to continue. And not just the resentment and the disappointment. Just simmers and simmers and simmers until it boils over eventually.

So our next piece of advice. You were sort of hinting at it a second ago, but we advise you do not test your partner to see how long they'll go without noticing. So this is definitely something I've worked with a lot with couples clients. I think you and I have done it to each other a few times, but it's sort of this. Like, when you're the higher desire partner, you sort of say, okay, well, fine, let me see. I won't initiate. How long will my partner go without initiating?

Or it'll be sort of a game or like a quantification of it where it's like, oh, well, I initiated the last three times I got turned down, so now you owe me three initiations, like, until we're even. But I'm not going to tell you that.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, I'm not going to tell you. And it's just going to be, you know, a test. I'm just waiting. Or, you know, or like, maybe you initiate once and you, you know, Vanessa initiates once with me and then she feels like, oh, cool, we're like, back on the sex train or whatever. And in my head I'm like, oh, she owes me two more. I'm not doing shit until she does two more. And then we're straight off the tracks again. Again.

Oh, yeah. Any sort of testing, secret testing in relationships is never going to end well.

Yeah, I can't think of one situation where testing your partner is good unless they are literally studying for a test and you're helping them.

So, like, we know this is extraordinarily painful to do in real life. It is very, very challenging to keep initiating sex, to keep initiating intimacy when your partner doesn't seem as interested as you are. But it's so important for you to continue to do that. Our next piece of advice is to work on your own confidence. So I mentioned earlier when I was talking about what it has been like for me to be in that position, that it was so easy for me to internalize it and feel like something was wrong with me and really honestly, like, beat myself up about it. But the bottom line is, like, you have to know you are desirable and your desirability exists separate from your partner's desire for you. Again, this is a really hard thing to do. Of course, it's easy to take things really personally and internalize it. But if the only way for you to feel desirable is by your partner initiating sex or being excited about sex, that is so much pressure to put on your partner and to put on your sex life in general. It's just not going to be a good situation.

And I think this can be so, so hard in Western culture or Americ culture, in a monogamous relationship or a monogamous marriage, because so many of us feel like by getting married to this person, by being committed and monogamous to this person, it means that my sexuality does not exist outside of this other person. And oftentimes it's like it doesn't even exist with myself. It's like it is only with the other person that I can be fulfilled in any way. I don't mean like sexually, like just through sex, but like any kind of emotional intimacy. So of course if you initiate and they turn you down, you're going to turn that into a referendum on yourself. Oh, I must not be desirable, they must not want me. I must have done something wrong.

Yeah. And then making this all even worse is like if you feel completely a total lack of self confidence and you're just like really relying on your partner, desperate for your partner to validate you, to make you feel sexy, like how sexy is that gonna actually seem to your partner? Right. And I'm saying this because I have done this before. I know I have. I know that the advice that we're giving right now is not easy, but like, yeah, I know I've definitely kind of had that desperate energy towards you of like validate me, make me feel sexy. And it's like, why would you want to have sex with me in that kind of moment? I mean, when we actually do feel confident and grounded in ourselves, knowing who we feeling good about ourselves, like that feels really desirable.

Yeah. Or you feel really down about yourself and then you kind of like schlub it up, slub it up, slub it up. Like you wear schlubby clothes. I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about like any of us. I know, I know I've been guilty of this. When I'm not feeling very good about myself, I start wearing PJs 24 7. I like don't take showers as often. I don't do my hair, not that I spend very much time doing my hair, but like I don't put any product in my hair. And it's sort of just like this self fulfilling prophecy. Like I don't feel very good about myself, so I don't invest any energy in myself to, to look good, to feel good. And it's just this downward spiral. And I'm not to be super clear, I'm not trying to say like, oh, you got to go put your makeup on, you got to look super hot and sexy. It's just like things that we do for ourselves around our appearance, around our fitness, around our confidence that just help us feel good on a day to day level.

Yeah. The next piece of advice that we want to talk about is talking to your partner about this.

Always a good idea.

Yes, always a good idea. So you wanting to Feel desired. That is a request that you can give to your partner. That is a need that you can express to your partner.

A very reasonable one.

Yeah, Yeah. I think we had a question from somebody that says, like, is it needy for me to want to feel desired by my partner? Like, no, absolutely not. That's a totally reasonable need to have from your partner wanting to know that your partner wants you. I think we get into trouble when we don't talk about these dynamics, and there's just all this stuff simmering beneath the surface. But if we can bring that out and just turn it into a clear and identifiable request, like, that can make it so much easier to deal with.

And I think that's the real key, a clear and identifiable request, because where it can cross the border into being a little needy is if all you're able to say is, it doesn't feel like you want me. I want you to want me more. And I'm not going to tell you anything about what it might be like for me to feel wanted. Like, here are some things that actually make me feel desired or make me feel wanted, or here's some things that I'm not seeing you doing that I'm struggling with.

Yeah. I mean, if you told me, like, I want you to want me, I'd be like, okay, like, what does that mean? How do I do that?

Yeah. And I think that's where we've struggled in the past, is that we've given each other other vague requests like, we need to have more sex, or like, I want you to want me more, without kind of translating, okay, how are we gonna get there? How are we gonna do that? Or how are we gonna do it together? Not just, how are you gonna figure that out and make it happen?

Okay. So we went over to our Instagram audience, and we put up a question box where we said, what are the specific things that make you feel desired? We said, either these are things that your partner does, maybe things they used to do, but they don't anymore, things that you wish that they did. We ask people, like, get really specific. And it was interesting because we did get a few specific examples, which we'll share with you in a second. But people really struggled to answer this question.

And this is probably where most people are going wrong.

Exactly. So we want to encourage you to take some time to really think about that question. What is it that makes you feel desired? What are the specific, concrete things that your partner can do? So we're going to share the examples that people gave us on instagram we had some other ideas of our own. So as you're listening to these, try to get a sense of for you which ones would be the most powerful. Or maybe one example that we give reminds you of something slightly different that would feel good for you. But again, you've got to get concrete here. This is work for you to do. So some of the stuff that came up on Instagram was day to day affection outside of sex. Maybe little kisses, little hugs, touching my leg while we're driving, touching my butt in passing. People also mentioned flirting, like giving compliments, even just verbally saying, you know, I want you. So those were the things, the few things that came up on Instagram, the ideas that we thought of on our own was maybe more quality time together. Sometimes when we feel like there's actually the space for us to spend time together, like that gives that feeling of being wanted. Flirty texts with each other. Of course, compliments, you know, can always be fun. Setting up like a sexy date night with each other, scheduling sex, trying new things in the bedroom together. So, you know, we're all unique. One person listening to this list is going to have totally different reactions to the items and other people are. But you know, take the time to think about what are the things that make you feel desired.

And I think another thing that could be really helpful if you are the I want you to want me partner. And if you also have mismatched sex drives, one of the things that you could do is, is express to your partner the types of things that really will help you feel more desired and really clarify that your expectation is that those things, especially if they're like touch based, do not have to lead to sex.

Yes.

Because I think that is the main objection of the other partner often is, oh, well, you know, I stopped touching or I stopped cuddling or I stopped kissing because I'm scared it will lead to sexual sex. And, and then I don't want to have to turn my partner down again. So it's easier to kind of turn down the touch or turn down the kiss so that I don't have to turn down the sex. So I think if you're the I want you to want me partner, try to think of ways to express these things that you want and make it really clear. Doesn't have to lead to anything else and maybe even just schedule some time to do that, cuddle, have those kisses and say, nope, no sex. Even if you want it, we're not going to do it. Just to lay that foundation of like, can do this stuff without there being an expectation attached to it.

Okay, so tell me, what is one thing that I do for you that makes you feel desired?

Ah. I think when you. When you compliment my body, I really like that. Like. Oh. Like, if I'm changing or, like, getting out of the shower, I can, like, kind of see you looking at me, or you go, oh, you're looking good.

Is that my voice?

Oh, you're looking good.

Wow. That's what I sound like to you.

I cannot try to imitate your voice. I just. I have, like, a single female voice that I can do. It's my falsetto.

You do like to make fun of my laugh, though. You can do my laugh pretty well.

I won't do that on a podcast.

I think the thing that you do for me lately, you've been doing it a lot, and it's made me feel very good.

Oh.

It's about my body as well. You'll kind of look at my body and you'll just be like, oh, my God. And you do this, like, this, like, big sigh.

It's like, oof. Yes. It's the. It's the. I'm trying. I'm trying not to want to just take you away and ravage you immediately.

I like that sigh. It makes me feel very desired. We need to make, like, a little sound clip of that, and people can just, like, play it for themselves when they're needing to feel desired. The little Vander side.

Well, I will say, you're looking pretty good in that sweater right now.

Oh, thank you.

I actually found myself wanting to do the oof earlier on, and I was like, you know, maybe I shouldn't do that on the podcast. But, you know, it fits. Now. I want you to know you look great.

Thank you. I feel very desired. Wow. All right, so let's move on now and talk to the partner who. Who maybe doesn't feel the desire. So your partner is the one saying, I want you to want me. So the first thing that we want to talk about is kind of looping back to that example of the couple that I worked with that we started this episode with. Our main advice to you is do not force yourself to just have sex with your partner. You're missing the whole point here. This isn't about just having sex, just throwing your partner a bone, just taking care of their needs. Like, what we are talking about really is emotional connection. And you force. Forcing yourself to do something physical is not going to create that emotional connection.

Nope.

And there are a lot of problems. Like, you Know, on top of that with forcing yourself to have sex. So it completely disconnects you from your body because you're forcing your body to do something that it doesn't want to do. It can be traumatizing and re. Traumatizing. If you've experienced any sort of sexual abuse or boundary violation in the past, it absolutely is going to decrease your desire over time.

Oh, yeah. Because you're going to associate sex with just something that you don't want to do.

Want something. Forcing yourself to do. How could you actively crave and desire something that you've made that association with? Right. It's sort of like, this might not be the greatest example, but the one that comes to mind right away is doing your taxes. We all force ourselves to do our taxes. Right? But, like, does anybody, you know, I don't think anybody gets excited about, like, hell yeah, let me pay my taxes.

If you have a big refund coming, you might be like, hell, yeah. But it's not, I got all the tax forms. I'm submitting this today.

In general, though, paying our taxes, it tends to be something we have to force ourselves to do.

Especially if, you know, you have a bill coming in.

Yes. There we go. And so in that case, like, why would you ever actively crave paying your taxes? Right. You've just made this association that it's something that's not a good thing. It's gonna decrease your desire over time, but it's also going to increase your resentment over time.

Nobody wants that.

Yeah. You're forcing yourself to do something that you don't want to do for your partner.

And again, like, you're gonna start, oh, why does my partner just want this? You're gonna perpetuate this story that all they want is sex, even if intellectually, you know that that's not it. And you're like, oh, I'm just gonna try to do this. The basic thing I can do for them is, you know, let them have sex with me. Then you're gonna start telling yourself, oh, but, like, I'm doing this for them, and all they want is sex. And it's like, that's how we just keep tricking ourselves into the same ideas that we know aren't right.

Yeah. And it's usually going to lead to bad sex. If you don't want to be doing it, it's not going to be fun for you. Your partner can sense that you're not wanting to do it, even if you're.

Really good at putting on a show.

Yeah. I mean, your partner's probably like, oh, God, okay, I just have to, like, you know, let me go to town and do my thing. Like, it's just not going to be good sex. And so it creates this terrible cycle again with your sex drive, where it's like, you're not going to crave sex. That is bad sex becomes this association of sex. It's something that I don't want, I force myself to do. It's not enjoyable. Why would you ever crave it? And you're gonna crave it less and less and less. That imbalance between you and your partner's sex drive is going to increase. Like, it's. It's so bad, you guys, I cannot tell you how bad this cycle gets. And it's so fucking common too. We have so many couples who are in this terrible cycle. And the ultimate irony of all of this is that you forcing yourself to have sex does not feel satisfying to your partner.

It does the opposite of what you think it's going to do. Like, your partner is probably going to feel less desired and less connected and less wanted.

And it might even make them increase how often they want to have sex with you because they're trying to, like, experience that connection and that closeness with you. And maybe they get like one tiny shred of it. And it's like, okay, well, I have to have sex like 10 times to get one little thimble full of connection. Right? It's just. It's so bad. It's so bad in every way. And that's why I worked with so many couples and we hear from couples in our DMs every single day, where the partner's like, I don't want my partner just letting me have sex with them. Like, I want them to want me. This whole conversation, you know, it brings up this really central question, like, are you responsible for meeting all of your partner's sexual needs? I think again, if we go back to that more gendered example of the woman is the one who's forcing herself to have sex with her male partner. You know, as women, we get all these messages about, you know, that's your wifely duty and you're supposed to take care of your man.

Or on the flip side, if the genders are flipped and the guy has a lower sex drive and feels like, I need to be able to perform for my woman, it can also bring up those, oh, well, this is like my manly duty. Like, to be a man, I need to perform. And so a guy can just as easily force himself to have sex to Feel like, this is how I feel good about myself. This is how I prove that I'm a man.

So our answer to that question, are you responsible for meeting all of your partner's sexual needs? Is a resounding no, you are not. And your partner is not responsible for meeting all of yours either. And your body should not be the only way to make your partner feel desired. That's why we were talking earlier about all those different examples of different ways that we can help each other feel desired. So our advice to you is to explore your relationship with your desire. So kind of ask yourself, do you feel desire for your partner? So we definitely have seen couples where this actually was kind of a miscommunication. One partner like to express their desire in a different way than the other partner liked to receive it. So it's sort of like a love languages type of issue. Like, I'm showing you desire in this way, but you're not not seeing that. That's my way of showing you desire. So that's again, where these, like, open conversations about what makes you feel desired. What are the specific things that you want to see from your partner that can go such a long way in resolving these miscommunications?

I feel like a really good example of this. One partner gives their partner, like, a bunch of compliments on their body. And the partner who's receiving those compliments goes, oh, this is so superficial. Like, I don't want. All you see in me is just like, body parts, a bunch of body parts. Or like, it's not a. It's not just about physical attraction. It's of course, not just about physical attraction. But their partner enjoys giving them compliments. Their partner probably enjoys receiving compliments. And so they think, well, I like receiving them, I'm going to give them.

Conversely, it may be that you're not feeling desire for your partner. So your partner's accurately picking up on, like, I want to feel wanted. And you're like, you know, I don't really want you. So if that's the case for you, the question to ask yourself is what blockages are getting in the way of your desire. So you may naturally be somebody who has a sex drive on the lower end, and that's totally normal, fine and healthy. But for the vast majority of people that we see, it's like they want to have a higher sex drive. They have a sense that something's getting in the way of their sex drive.

I used to have a higher sex drive, and then things changed in my life, and so did My sex drive?

Yeah, exactly. If that's the case for you, we want to point out that we do have a course called Rediscovering Desire that gives you practical tools, understanding your blockages to sex drive and increasing your sex drive. So we'll put the link to that in the show notes. But some of the dynamics that we talk about are like, shame around sex. Really hard to feel active desire for something that you've been taught to be deeply ashamed of. Very common stress conflict in your relationship. If you and your partner aren't getting along, not gonna wanna fuck them.

Oh, yeah. I mean, I'm shocked at the number of DMs we get from people who describe like a really contentious, challenging relationship. Like a lot of arguments, a lot of issues and then the like. And my sex drive is gone and I can't understand why. And it's like they're worried about their sex drive being gone and they're not worried about like, oh, we scream at each other every night or whatever. I mean, that's maybe extreme, but like we have this really ongoing argument about like how we are raising our kids or something like that. We get into it every single night, night. But my sex drive is gone. Isn't that weird?

It's not weird. It makes perfect sense. I mean, that's another thing that comes up a lot too. Parenthood can really, you know, throw a rent. Throw a wrench.

Yeah, throw a wrench.

I almost said wreak a wrench. Wreak havoc.

Wreak havoc.

Wreak your wrench.

Throw a wrench and wreak some havoc, babe.

Another big thing that can come up is mental load imbalance. If you feel like there's all this mental load that you're carrying, you literally don't have the space in your. Well, not literally, but you figuratively don't have the space in your brain, you know, for intimacy or connection. Maybe it's leading to resentment because you feel like your partner isn't doing their fair share. So we also have a mental load workbook that is super useful for this situation. So we'll put a link to that in the description box below too. Could be boredom, like if you're not having great sex, if you can predict exactly what's going to happen in the exact order that's going to happen, why are you going to feel desire for it? And finally there might be like a fear of initiation. So it might be that you're feeling the desire, but you feel so self conscious about like, oh, I don't want to tell my partner how you know that I want to have sex? I don't know how to initiate. I feel shy or embarrassed or you.

Feel like, oh, it should be their job to initiate. I mean, this can be a very gendered thing. Like, some women can feel like, oh, that's just not my job. I do not do this. This is what the guy does.

Oh, yeah. Actually, we even got. Yesterday we got a DM from somebody saying, like, I feel so shy about saying yes to my partner when they initiate. Like, how do I get more confident saying yes? There's just so much stuff that can come up around initiation. So we also have a really affordable masterclass about initiation, initiation 101. So we'll put the link to that in the description box.

And that's about both initiating and considering your partner's initiations, as well as both sides of the coin, like, how to do it, but also how to receive, like, your partner's initiation and say yes or no.

Yeah, so we'll put that in the show notes. I just realized I said in the description box down below. That was our. Our YouTube line.

Oh, yeah.

A little plug here. If you're not yet following us on YouTube, head on over there. We do some pretty fun videos.

Yeah, yeah, They're. They're short and sweet. The pugs do make a appearance at least recently in the video. So you have to watch some of the recent videos videos to spot the pugs. They're sometimes hidden behind us, but sometimes.

Pug lover for wife might love our YouTube channel.

Yeah, they make an appearance, so subscribe to that channel, please.

All right, so bottom line with this whole episode with, you know, I want you to want me is this is just a way that we are missing each other, a way that we're not seeing, like, the breadth of our emotional experience, our desire for connection. We're having these surface level conversations about the physical act of sex, and we're missing this desire for connection. So we really hope that this episode has given you some ideas and some specific tips and techniques for reconnecting with your partner.

Oh, but we are not done yet. We got some listener questions.

It's been a minute since we've had some listener questions.

I know. Let's get into it.

All right.

All right. So the first one is, how do I phrase what I want, want, or need without coming off as critical or that my partner is failing?

This is a really interesting thing about feedback. I think that we hear the idea of, like, giving feedback to our partner or making requests, and in our head, it immediately goes to this negative place of, like, it feels like it's gonna be really critical and mean and cruel. But the reality is that you can give feedback and make requests in really gentle and kind ways. Like, we're not ever gonna tell you. Just tell your partner, partner, hey, you're an asshole, and you suck at making me feel desired, and I hate you, and you're terrible. Right. Like, of course you're not gonna say something like that. So I think instead, you know, phrasing it in a positive way of telling your partner how good it makes you feel when they do stuff like that. I mean, if you listen to, like, Xander and I a couple of minutes ago when I was asking him, what's something that I do that makes you feel wanted and vice versa, we both got all giddy. Hearing each other say, like, I love when you do this. Right. Like, it didn't come off is like, xander, you're so bad at making me feel wanted. Here's the thing that I need you to do. Just phrase it in a positive way. Tell your partner what you like, why you appreciate it, the specific positive impacts that it has on you, and that's going to make them feel great.

There also just needs to be some space for your partner to have some feelings around it. You know, if you are in a place where there is sort of a mismatch in your part, your desires, and you're in a place where feeling, like, a little tough. Yeah. Your partner might have some feelings when you share with them that there are some things that you would like, that you have some needs. And I think that it's just important to allow them to feel that, though.

I think that. Yeah, that's a point that you're really big on of. Like, we can't always ensure that our partner feels positive and good a hundred percent of the time. And, like, that's okay. It's not our responsibility to protect our partner and make sure they're in this perfect state. So it's a balance here. If, like, of course you're not going to be rude and aggressive and mean about it. And also recognizing my partner's allowed to have reactions, and that's okay, and I can have the space for that.

Yeah. And it's like, I can't control the outcome whenever. Whenever I deliver a piece of feedback, whenever I say something, whenever I do something, I cannot control the outcome of what's going to happen.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

All right, next question is, what do you do if you specifically ask for what you need to feel desired and they Just don't do it. I've clarified and reinforced, but it just doesn't happen. I'm convinced he truly doesn't want me for this one.

The place that I want to start with is acknowledging that it takes a lot of repetition. Like, it would be really nice if we could tell our partner just one time, this is what I need you to do to make me feel loved and appreciated. And they were. Would just follow it for the rest of eternity. Like, that would be great. I would love that. But the reality is that we are different people. And the things that feel so natural and normal and understandable to you are often going to feel completely alien to your partner. And so that is the work of relationships that we are continually putting in that effort, having those conversations, expressing our needs. But the difference here is, is, you know, if you see your partner making an effort, they say, thank you for sharing that with me. I'm really gonna try. They do it a few times. Maybe they kind of fall off the. You know, fall off the wagon or the horse.

The wagon fall. Fall off the wagon.

Fall off the wagon. Get back on the horse.

There you go.

Back in the saddle. If you see them fall off the wagon. And then you have to remind them, hey, babe. And, oh, my God, I'm so sorry. You're right. I totally forgot. Let me try again. Like, that's normal. That's gonna happen all the time in relationship relationships. Xander and I go through this all the time. But that's a different thing from you telling your partner, this is what I need, and your partner saying, like, no, I'm not gonna do that. Or maybe they say, okay, whatever, and then they never do it once. And you bring it up with them and they're like, why are you so demanding? You're always thinking, right? It's like the attitude that they have about trying to fulfill this need is really what's important. If you're in a place where it just feels like your partner's stonewalling you, they don't wanna give you what you need, you know? Yeah, that's going to be a much more challenging thing where we would definitely recommend therapy for you guys. And it might. Yeah, it might lead to, unfortunately, like, a really difficult conversation about, like, is this the right relationship?

Yeah, it's tough because I don't. We don't have the full contacts in this question. But, yeah, if it is the situation where you are clarifying it, you're reinforcing what you want. Your partner just legit doesn't care. Like, and they're telling you they don't care or they're not going to do it. It. That is a serious issue. That's something you go to therapy for. That's something where you could say, you know what? I think that our just needs and desires are misaligned and this isn't going to work. Or is it that they hear you every time they go, oh, my God, I really want to do that? I'm trying. That is a totally different story.

Yeah.

Next question. Is this all just in our heads? Is it just us not feeling desirable and not that our partner doesn't want us?

Very often? Yes. I think that so many of us struggle to feel desired. And even if your partner is, like, showing you all the time and telling you all the time, you may still struggle to internalize that and to really, like, believe them.

Yeah. I mean, it could be wounds from a past relationship. It could be wounds from childhood, from being a teenager and lack of confidence or someone saying something mean to you once that kind of just sticks with you and you. And it's like no matter how much your partner does say nice things to you or does want you, that there's kind of you just have this shield up from this hurt that you had in your past. So that's something that you can absolutely work on in individual therapy. Trying to look at, like, what are my own blockages to receiving compliments or to taking in the desire of being my partner.

Yeah. And again, that's where these open conversations about, here are the ways that I show you my desire. What are the ways that you like to receive desire? Those can be so helpful.

But I would not go as far as to say that if you are feeling like your partner doesn't desire you, that it's just 100% in your head. I think you can definitely examine what is my part in this. Am I having some blockages? Am I having trouble taking this in or, you know, really like feeling what they are giving me? Or is there kind of a need of mine that is not being fully met?

All right, well, that is it for us today. Like we mentioned before, we are going to put links to a couple of the products and courses that we talked about in the show Notes. We'll have the links for rediscovering desire, that course about increasing your sex drive, the mental load workbook, and the Initiation 101 Master Class.

All right, like Vanessa said, that's it for today's episode.

That's it for today.

That's it for today.

That sure is.

Wow. You're raining on my outro here.

Sorry, baby.

Get out of here. All right, thank you so much for listening, everyone. Join us again next week when we talk about weaponized incompetence.

I'm really excited about this episode.

Oh, yeah, this is going to be a good one. I kind of tried to drop fought out and was like weaponized. Like, where am I going with this? Are we talking about like military stuff? I don't know.

That's the pillow talk episode. They talk about the military stuff. Pillow talks. We talk about the incompetence.

Yeah. All right, so we're going to talk about weaponized incompetence or what to do when your partner pretends not to know how to do something or they do it so badly that you just end up doing it yourself.

It's going to be very interesting. So make sure to tune in.

It'll be a doozy. All right, see you next week.