EPISODE 56: What Do Men REALLY Think About… ? (Vulvas, Emotional Intimacy, And More!)

So if you see an attractive woman walking down the street, are you going to think that woman is more attractive than Vanessa is? Hello and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Xander Marin. I'm a sex Therapist with over 20.

Years of experience, and I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.

Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. Today we are getting into the hearts and minds of men and answering the question, what do men really think? And I gotta say, I cannot remember a time that we have had more interest in a podcast topic before it was even recorded. So I'm really excited to see see how this episode turns out and what you guys think of it.

So there's a lot of pressure on me is what you're saying.

There's an awful lot of pressure on you to deliver. So we went over to Instagram and asked, what do you want to know about men's opinions? Like, what do men really think about this? And we got so many responses. So we picked a couple of ones that we asked for. Even more feedback, like, from men about, you know, okay, men, a lot of people are curious to know what you think about this, so let us know about that. And we just got hundreds of DMs from people saying, when is this episode going to be out? I want to listen to it right now. Can you just share the answers right now? Like, I want to know.

I need to know yesterday.

So we are very, very excited for this episode and we're in particular going to be talking about a lot of concerns that women have about what men think. Like, when we put that question up initially, we weren't really thinking about it in terms of gender, but by far and away, the responses that we got were from women. So there is going to be a bit of a bent to the episode in that sort of way. So we're gonna be talking about things like pubic hair, vulvas, so many questions about vulvas, all the things about vulvas, cellulite, and so much more.

But we're gonna make you wait just a little bit longer to get those answers because I have to give you the review of the week.

Oh, yeah.

So this week's is titled Gym Thursday.

Intriguing. I'm not sure where this is going.

I'm not sure where this is going. Hello, you two. I abso freaking lutely love your podcast. I always look forward to a good work day. Workouts are definitely my favorites. I always feel extra motivated when I listen to a new show. I laugh while lifting, smile while squatting, and anxiously await bedtime to practice what I learned with my Beautiful wife of 25 years.

Oh, my God.

Oh, I love this. This is amazing. We've always had an amazing sex life and it's still going strong. We have so much fun in bed. I don't just compliment more, I compliment better. Her body just does it for me. She gets all five of my senses going.

This is a review for his wife, too.

Oh, you're. I hope she's reading it. Your podcast has really brought out a different side of me, which in turn has brought out a different side in us. We still kiss like we're teenagers, hold hands like we're dating, and look at each other like we're star crossed lovers.

Oh, my God.

I'm not sure if the star crossed lovers is actually. I think that's actually not the greatest thing. Right? It means that, like, you can't quite get to each other.

No, I think star crossed means, like, you're actually. I have no idea what star cross is.

Someone tell us, where the hell does starcross come from?

Like, the stars were in alignment with you guys meeting each other. I don't think it means, like, you're ill, like a Romeo and Juliet.

Like, I feel like I only hear star crossed lovers in the context of, like, Romeo and Juliet or, like, you know, they couldn't quite get to each other, but they were perfect. All right, I'll continue. She rocks my world. Listening to the two of you has really done wonders and has kept our relationship from going stagnant. Greatly appreciated, Vanessa. Keep laughing, Xander. Keep making Vanessa laugh. I love having sex with my wife. He just had to. Had to get it in there. And then butt, emoji, squirt, squirt, and then a big dick with symbols. I've actually. I've never seen the euro symbol utilized.

It's the euro symbol. A bunch of a lot of dashes and then an eight for the balls. I love this review. This was, like, just as much a review of the wife as it was of the podcast. Yeah, I love having sex with my wife.

Three exclamations.

Wow. Love this. Thank you so much. That one really made me laugh. That was a delightful review. And, you know, reviews, they really, really, truly do go such A long way in helping the podcast grow. I did not understand this about reviews before I started my own podcast, but it really does make such a big difference.

I mean, who wouldn't read this and be like, I have to listen.

I have to listen.

I guess I have to listen.

So it really does help us so much. So if you have ever listened to an episode that made you laugh, that gave you some, you know, good advice or some tip to use with your partner, we would so much appreciate it if you could take 60 seconds to write a quick review on Apple Podcast. And once you write that review, you are entered into our weekly giveaway for life. And every single week, we pick a review of the week. If you're the winner, you can DM us on Instagram anessamarintherapy. Ask us a question, and we will give you a free personalized mini coaching session as our way of saying thanks.

Yeah, man, I wonder if this guy actually needs help with anything. Sounds like. Sounds like things are great, but, you know, if you got a question, hit us up.

Okay, so let's get into the episode. Before we even get into it, though, I just want to give a little bit of a disclaimer. And I know you'll agree with me on this, even though you don't know what my disclaimer is. Even though we're doing this whole episode about what do men really think about this? We've spent all this time preparing for it. We've got a lot of ground we're going to cover. The bottom line is it doesn't fucking matter, because what we really want you to focus on is what feels good and right and pleasurable for you. Of course, we all have that question in the back of our heads of like, ooh, what does my partner really think? What do you guys think? What do women think? Like, of course it's natural to wonder. You know, what other people think is sexiest or best. So that's totally natural to wonder. And that's why we decided to do the episode anyway. But we really want to just, like, ground this in you, recognizing that what feels the best to you is the most important. So the very first thing we're going to be talking about is pubic hair. If you feel the best with no pubic hair, then have no pubic hair. If you feel the best with full bush, keep that full bush. It really doesn't matter. So we want you to focus on your own self.

The key here is that very often we delude ourselves into thinking that we want something because we think Other people want that thing. And so I think the key here is trying to, you know, we want to give you this information, we want to give you this episode to help you start disentangling these things so that you can really choose from yourself, am I making this decision, or am I having this opinion because I think that's what other people expect of me? Or am I having this opinion or this preference because that's really what feels good to me and what I truly want, independent of what other people think.

And ultimately, I think, like, these are really great conversations to have in your relationship. You know, we're kind of putting Xander on the spot in this episode, asking him to speak for all men. We did interview other men, too. We got plenty of feedback. But, you know, ultimately, it's like, the partner that you're with, their opinion matters more than, like, overall, the patterns that we tended to see or what Xander's personal opinion is then, even then, like, that should be a conversation between you and your partner. So if your partner really prefers one thing and you're like, you know what? I don't really care one way or the other, so I'm happy to go with my partner's preference. Or maybe it's a conversation where you're like, your partner kind of prefers something, but you really prefer the other thing, and that's this opportunity for you to assert yourself and say, you know what? I hear what your preference is. I respect it. Because it's my body or because it's this thing involving me, I'm going to choose to do this. But, like, still, it's an opportunity for a really healthy conversation. So that's the disclaimer before we get into all of it.

Okay. And then it's my turn to give a disclaimer.

Oh, okay. Which is that double disclaimer.

As much as I might joke about it or would like to, no, I don't even want to, but I cannot speak for all men in this episode. I'm kind of jokingly going to be, quote, speaking for all men, because I am the man here. But like Vanessa said, we did interview a bunch of guys. We got a ton of feedback from guys over on our Instagram channel, so we are going to be peppering that in throughout. But I just want to say, you know, I'm going to do my best to kind of speak from my own experience, and then also just from what I hear from other people. I cannot speak for all men, so just. Just remember that.

All right, well, so let's get into it after Our double disclaimers. Very first question, and this was by far and away the number one question that was asked. What do men really think of pubic hair? Do you think there is a general trend? Or you could speak to maybe your own personal preferences, but what do men really think?

All right, this is a really good question. I think that, of course, every guy is going to have different preferences, but I think the really important thing.

So you don't think there's, like, a universal all men love no hair or all men love full bush?

No, I. Unfortunately, I don't think that there is a universal answer to this.

I think, like, one secret pubic hairstyle that all men love.

I think everyone's got their own preferences. And this is one also where, like, the trends are changing.

You know what that sounds like? You know that, like, chum at the bottom of really weird news articles. Like, one weird trick to cure belly fat.

Oh, yeah.

Like one secret pup hairstyle that drives all men wild.

Yeah, I mean, I think that this is just, like, clothing trends change over time, and the trends are informed by, like, what we see on TV and in the media and that kind of thing. So I think the same is probably true for this.

Okay, what do you think the pubic hair trends are right now?

Oh, my God, I'm so out of the loop on this. I have no idea. I have no idea. What are they? You tell me.

Well, apparently the trends are swinging more back to a fuller, more natural look.

Yeah.

Okay, so after many, many years of, like, Brazilians taking it all off, the.

Key is that whatever you do is, like, own it. Confidence. You choose a style that feels good to you and do it confidently. Take off your pants, take off your underwear confidently and just be like, this is hot. This is what I got.

I wish we were recording your little reenactment of this here. Like, yeah, this is what I got. Okay, well, let me ask you this question. Go back to your dating days, and let's say you're hooking up with a woman for the first time. She takes her pants off, and it's just, like, a totally different pubic hairstyle than you were expecting or than what your preference is. Would you ever not hook up with somebody because of that or be, like, wildly turned off in the moment because it was, like, the wrong pubic hairstyle?

No. Absolutely not.

Okay, now I wish. Now I wish. You were recording your face. You're, like, looking at me as if this is one of the dumbest questions I've ever asked you. But I think a Lot of. Of women are worried about this. They're worried about, like, what if my partner doesn't like it and they're turned off by it. Have you ever been, like, wildly turned off by pubic hair?

No, no. No. I have never been wildly turned off. Honestly, I think that there's something kind of exciting about seeing what you're going to get. You don't. You don't know. I mean, I don't know. It's been a very long time since.

I was just thinking in the back of my head, like, oh, people are going to think we're in an open relationship. Xander's all excited seeing what he's going to get.

We're not. We're not. But, you know, it's like opening up a Christmas present. You don't know. You might shake it a little bit. You might have an idea.

Shake it.

I just mean, like, you know, have you been doing some. Like, you've been a little handsy. You might have an idea of what you're gonna get. And then, you know, you take it off and it's like, oh, okay, this is what we're working with.

All right, well, so we knew, because this was such a popular question, like, we knew we wanted to get more feedback. So we put a question box up on Instagram, and we asked men, like, how do you feel about pubic hair? What's your preference? Here are a couple of responses that we got back. It's a sexy little forest, and I want to go for a hike. Winner right there. What a great response. Don't care at all. This decision is totally up to the woman. And it's easier to find things and see things when there isn't any hair. So that was just three random examples that we pulled. There was an incredibly wide spectrum of preferences. There really was, like, a, like, no. One answer that seemed like it was the most popular, the most common. It was really all over the place. But I will say, like, most men in general said something about, like, I really don't care that much. Like, if you're asking me, what is my absolute preference, here's what it is. But kind of like what you were saying, like, I'm not turned off by pubic hair. I'm open to, like, a wide variety of things. The advice that I tend to give women, you know, you were talking a minute ago about, like, figure out what you want and what feels good for you, and, like, just be confident in it. And I think a lot of women don't have that confidence yet. And that's why we're seeing this question so much. It's like we just want to have somebody else tell us the answer. So the advice that I often give to women is like, experiment with your pubic hair. Like, just like you would with the hair on your head.

Like, like, what looks good to you? What do you know if you look in the mirror at yourself?

Oh, now we've got some legs spread over here.

What do you think looks good to you?

So I would say, like, mix it up. So if you've always it, you know, just be natural. Try trimming it. Try getting a bikini wax and getting like the sides taken off. Try just once getting all of it taken off. If you have had it all taken off for years, try letting it grow out for a little bit. Like, mix it up and try to get a sense of what feels the best to you. And not only, like, what do you like the most aesthetically, like, how do you like it to look? But also what physically feels the best. So some women really like, well, say people of all gender. Some people really like having pubic hair because it gives a little. Like, you can play with it, you can kind of tug on it, give a little extra stimulation. It makes them feel really sexy. Some people don't like having any pubic hair because for them it feels like the sensations amplify. They feel like that direct skin to skin contact. So get a sense of, like, what do you like the look of and what feels the best to you? But I think it is really worth experimenting and trying out a few different things. And I will also say, I think in general, even if you choose to leave all of your hair and like not get any waxed or shave or anything like that, like, for people of all genders, trimming it can be a nice courtesy because if oral sex is a part of your sex life, it can be a little bit harder to maneuver around a lot of pubic hair. So I'm not saying that you, you know, everybody has to get a Brazilian and take everything off, but it can be easier if you just sort of trim it down a little bit and you can just use like a pair of, of, what am I trying to say?

Bathroom scissors.

What is this called?

Like, little.

Yeah.

I don't know. What are you talking about? Like the little scissors that we have?

Yeah, like a little beard trimmer scissors.

I don't, honestly, I don't know what they're called.

Like, don't use, don't use your office scissors or like your kitchen shears. You know, like, just I don't know what I'm saying. That says, little scissors, just get a little trim. That can be nice and just make oral sex a lot easier. You absolutely do not have to. I'm just saying, like, it can be a nice thing to do if you're open to it. All right, let's move on to the next topic. What do men really think about emotional intimacy? Do they really not know what it means? Why is it not a priority for some or many of them? How can we help them understand how important it is? Obviously, that was a bunch of questions all sort of rolled into one, but the general topic of emotional intimacy, a lot of women were struggling to understand, like, why does this feel like something that. I think for a lot of women, emotional intimacy seems pretty straightforward and obvious, but in their relationships, it doesn't feel that way. So trying to understand, like, how do men approach emotional intimacy?

Yeah, let's peel this back a bit. This is a tough one. So I think that. And we've talked about this a lot, I think, in various podcast episodes, and we talk about this a lot on Instagram. I'm sure we've talked about this a lot on YouTube as well. I think, in general, men tend to be socialized to undervalue emotional intimacy, or at worst, to think that emotional intimacy is weakness in some way. I think that there's this idea that, oh, emotions are for women, and, like, logic or being rational is for men. Problem solving, problem solving is a male thing. And then we tend to idealize as males, other guys that are the strong, silent type. Like, people that don't let their emotions get the better of them. We just hold it all inside and we barrel our way through life and we hold it all together. And I think we have a lot of movies that idealize guys like this. And of course, what we don't see in movies is what happens when the camera stops rolling. Like, how does bottling up your emotions really impact you in the long run? And I think a lot of us start to realize over time that we actually don't feel very good when we try to do this?

Yeah, I think it's really important to point out that this is incredibly harmful socialization that men get. You know, believing that emotional intimacy is weakness. They're not allowed to show that. Like, the reality is we all have emotions. That's being human is having emotions. And if you spend your entire life being taught that something that is just inherently a part of you is a bad thing that you should not have, like, that's an Incredibly painful experience. So even the guys who seem like they really have it all together and they're tough and they get through things and they're stoic, like, they are hurting inside. I promise you that.

Oh, yeah. And I mean, often, you know, what you see is when you bottle up emotions, they come out. They spill out uncontrollably in other ways. So very often that will come out as anger or aggression. And in reality, that's just misplaced emotion. Sadness or sorrow or fear that you're bottling up. And, like, you know, it's like if you're. I don't. I'm trying to think of something that has a lot of pressure. Like, if you shake up a soda bottle and you keep the top on, like, you're gonna. You're gonna.

That's a good comparison.

You know, you're gonna feel that, like, oh, there. There's no more air in here. Like, it's. There's a lot of pressure, and all of a sudden, like, at some point, it will burst. It will burst. It won't just go back to normal on its own.

Yeah.

So that's one thing to consider now when it comes to emotional intimacy in relationships. I mean, I can speak from my own experience here. If I think back to other relationships that I've had, you know, as I was. As I was growing up. If I think about the times where I felt really kind of emotionally intimate or vulnerable, they oftentimes were when I was having sex or right after I was having sex. I think that men very often tend to get this idea that, okay, well, sex is the one time where I'm allowed to show emotion, where I'm allowed to be close or intimate or vulnerable with someone. Or maybe, you know, right afterwards, like, right after you have an orgasm, oftentimes you let your guard down. You feel really good. You feel really safe. I mean, like, I just. Yeah. Like, I have memories, you know, when I'm, like, getting into a new relationship with you or with other people. In the past, when you first start having sex with someone afterwards, just kind of lying there, being like, oh, my God, I feel really safe with this person. I feel like I could share anything right now. And then, you know, that kind of afterglow wears off, and you feel, oh, God, I almost said this, or I almost said that. And you're like, oh, my God, I better tighten it up.

Oh, tighten it up.

But, yeah, and we hear this from men all the time, that it's like the way that I want to feel emotionally closer to my partner is through having sex with them. And so I think that women, I assume, consider, you know, sex as an emotionally intimate thing, but also all kinds of other things as emotional intimacy. And oftentimes what we hear is that it's like, okay, yeah, sex is an intimate thing, but when we don't have a baseline level of an emotional intimacy through other stuff like conversation, being together, spending quality time together, etc. Then it's like, well, it doesn't feel like we can really have that much emotional intimacy when we're having sex. So it's sort of like this misunderstanding between men and women of men being like, I need to just be having sex with you in order to have that emotional intimacy. And women being like, okay, well, like, we're having sex, but I can't really feel that emotionally intimate with you because we don't already have it. And so I think it's just this unfortunate misunderstanding and kind of like butting of heads. So I think if you are a woman listening to this and you are wanting to help your partner understand sort of the full range of emotional intimacy that you would like is try to just give some really positive compliments in moments when you do feel emotionally intimate to your partner, whether that's through a conversation or some time that you're spending together or something you're doing together with the kids or whatever. I think a lot of men just need to have that repetition, those that, like, validation of, like, oh, hey, when we had this conversation together, that felt so good. I feel so close to you because of this conversation that we had or because of the thing we just did together. And I would love to keep doing that.

Awesome. Okay, let's move on to the next question. Are men as grossed out by my cellulite as I am? Another super popular one.

All right. Yeah, we've. We've done this on Instagram before. Vanessa asked me about cellulite, and I said then, and I still say now. I still don't really understand what cellulite is. I know that word. I hear people refer to it all the time. But it's kind of one of those. I don't really know what it is. It doesn't really sound like it's that important because I can't really see it. Like, what is it? I don't know. I'm not going to ask because, like, I don't really care.

I have pointed out. I've tried to point out to you. I'm like, this is what cellulite looks like. Like, see, it's kind of that, like, bumpy texture of skin.

I mean, it seems like something that I also have. I don't really know what it is. It seems just like a normal skin thing that my skin does. And so I'm like. I'm like, well, I have that. Like, I would expect that you have that too. Why? It wouldn't make any sense that you wouldn't have any. Honestly, I don't understand. I don't understand.

Well, there are a lot of men out there who agree with you. By far and away, the responses that we got when we put up our question box on Instagram or no, Just flat out, no. We're not grossed out by this. So we heard responses like, it's natural. Everyone has it. I have it. It's a part of life. A lot of guys said, I do not notice it. A lot of guys, like, you don't even know what it is still, didn't I?

Didn't I actually compliment you? I, like, touched a part of you, and I was like, oh, I love this. And you were like, oh, my God, it's my cellulite. I'm like, oh, my God. I don't know what that is.

It was.

But I know I like this part of it.

Cellulite on my butt. You were, like, touching it, and you're like, oh, this is so cute. You have dimples here. And I was like, dimples? What is he talking about? And then it took me a second. I was like, oh, that's my cellulite. But you were like, yeah, delighted by it. You're like, that's your skin.

Your skin is what you're saying. It's your skin. It's your butt.

It's my butt. It is my butt. Okay, this next question was one that came up a lot, and we want to make sure that we talk about this really sensitively because there are a lot of different dynamics that get wrapped up in this. So a lot of women wanted to know, do men really care how many people a woman has slept with? And so I want to name a few things here. We definitely have really different societal expectations of men versus women when it comes to sex. Like, men are celebrated for having a lot of partners, and, you know, it's, like, a great thing for that. But women, we have to walk this incredibly narrow line of, like, we don't want to be prudes, but we also don't want to be too sexual. And so it's really easy for women to be labeled as, like. Like, sluts or promiscuous and sleeping around that kind of stuff. And I can speak for this myself, too. Like, I've felt that tension, you know, during my single days of, like, I want to make my own decisions about who I sleep with. And at the same time, like, of course, I have this socialization that I've gotten my entire life in the back of my head telling me, like, don't have too high of a number. And the other wild thing about this is if you're, you know, you and I, like, met each other pretty early in our lives, so, you know, our numbers are. Are relatively low. But if you are, you know, if you're dating around in your 20s, like, your number gets high very quickly.

Yeah.

Right.

You can do about that. Other than being like, I'm just not gonna date. I'm not gonna have sex.

I mean, if you sleep with, like, one new person a month, which is like, you know, that doesn't seem like that much, but, you know, you're getting 12 people a year, and if you've got, you know, a decade or two decades of dating, like, the number gets. Gets big really quickly. So, yeah, I just want to, you know, speak to all of that because this is one that I. I really go back to the bottom line of, like, who the cares what guys think? Like, what matters is that you feel comfortable with your own number. You feel like I made decisions that, you know, overall felt good and I, you know, felt good and safe to me, like, I'm just taking over this one. Sorry, babe, I'll save for myself. Like, of the people that I slept with, there are definitely people that I can look back and think, like, with hindsight, looking back, maybe I wish I hadn't slept with that person because it didn't end up being a good experience or, you know, it's like, we all have that, right? So I'm not saying. I'm not saying that everybody has to feel like a hundred percent about all of their decisions, but overall, I have this sense of, like, you know what? I feel like I made good, healthy decisions for myself. So, yeah, all that being said, let's get your specific opinion on. Do you care about how many people a woman has slept with?

No, I. I really don't care. I really don't care. I will say I think that there are a lot of men out there who do care, and I think there are a lot of men out there who are. To be. To be like, super. To be super frank about it. And I think there are a lot of men that have a lot of their own insecurities around this. And I think that 99 of the time, if this concern is coming up for a guy, it's his own insecurity coming up. It's this. This feeling like, oh, well, I need to be better at sex than my partner because that's my job as a man. Like, I need to show her. I need to show her how to have good sex. And if she's had more of it than I have, then she can't. Like, then I can't possibly be better than her. Yeah, it's like an ego thing. And I think this is something where it's like, you know, if a guy cannot get past this, he's not a good guy for you.

Yeah.

If a guy.

Is ashamed or embarrassed about your number, he does not deserve to sleep with you. No, absolutely not. So we pulled this one on Instagram, and most men, the vast majority of men, said that they really didn't care. There were some men who said they did care for, like, religious reasons. There was kind of some judgment that came in around that. But a lot of men said, you know, it's hypocritical for me to judge a woman based on her number. Like, I don't want. I don't want to feel judged for my number. I'm not going to judge her. All right, I could say so much more about this one, but we have so many other big topics, so let's cruise along into the next one. So one woman wrote, I'm concerned that my man is often comparing me to other women and that I will never be enough. Do men do this?

All right, so I've got a controversial take here. Okay, so my take on this is, yes, men notice other people. Everybody notices other people.

We don't go blind the second that we get into a relationship.

It's part of being human. We have eyes. And even if we don't have eyes, we have ears. You know, we have all kinds of ways of perceiving the world around us and, like, noticing what is in that world, whether there's people or inanimate objects.

Oh, I hear that woman over there.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, yes, we notice. I think, when it comes to the comparing, I think that that is very often the majority of the time that is something that the woman is doing.

So men notice. Women compare.

Yeah. And just like I was saying in the last one, there are a lot of guys out there who are assholes who don't deserve to be with you. I think that the vast majority of good, normal men, of course they are going to notice other people, but they're not walking around being like, oh, this element of this person's personality is better than my partner's. And I wish I had this.

I don't think women are worried about personality.

This body part or. Or whatever.

I mean, her upper arms are slimmer than my partner's upper arms.

Oh, my God. No. I have, like, I've never once thought about bodies in that level of detail. It's like, it's. Yeah.

Or like, she has a thinner waist than I do.

I mean, people are different. Like, people are different. That's life. My mind just doesn't work in that way.

You're not like, picking apart body parts and. Because it's interesting to ask you this because I think a lot of women, we do this so easily and so quickly of like, oh, her thighs are thinner than mine. Or she has a rounder butt than I do. Her hair looks thicker than mine does. It's very easy for us to go through a woman's entire body and compare, like, feature by feature.

Yeah. I feel like I just don't really, like, take in other people feature by feature. It's kind of like, oh, that person's attractive. Often it's usually. If I think about it, usually it's you who points out someone's body part to me. You'll be like, oh, look at her butt. I'll be like, she's attractive. I'm like, oh, like, specifically at her butt. Like, oh, okay, I guess her butt is big. But I just don't. Yeah, I don't. I don't know. I really. I perceive things more as a whole. And it's like, okay, yeah, people are attractive. Like, that's how. That's how life is.

So if you see an attractive woman walking down the street, are you gonna think that woman is more attractive than Vanessa is? And I know objectively. I know that objectively there are millions of women in the world who are more attractive than I am, but I'm curious. Yeah. Do you think about it in that way?

I mean, so much of my attraction to you is based on non phys. Physical things. Like, we've been together for pushing 15 years. Like, it is. If it was purely a physical thing, like, I wouldn't be getting married. Like, I would be getting married.

I'm gonna keep pushing you on this.

Okay.

Jennifer Lopez is walking down the street. Are you gonna think Jennifer Lopez is hotter than Vanessa, or are you just gonna think Jennifer Lopez is hot?

I'm gonna think Jennifer Lopez is hot. I'm Glad I'm with Vanessa because I'm sure Jennifer Lopez isn't. It's a pain to be with.

I have permission to leave me for Jennifer Lopez. She is amazing. She looks incredible.

But no, here's the thing. It's like, I love you. I know. I know you. I know your personality. We've. We have so much history together. I'm not just gonna up and leave you for somebody else. I don't know. I don't know so much stuff about them.

Okay. But it's.

Yeah.

I'm really trying to push you on the. The comparison aspect of it. I know you're not gonna go, like, leave me for somebody, but, like, yeah, it. Does your brain work that way of comparing, like, she's more attractive than Vanessa?

No.

Okay. All right. Well, speaking of specific body parts, we had a lot of questions about vulvas. A lot of women, you know, we're socialized our entire lives to be embarrassed of our vulvas, to think that they are weird looking, they're smelly, they taste bad, they're generally icky. And so a lot of us have a hard time wrapping heads around how men could not think the same. So we got a lot of questions about vulvas, but one of the most common ones that came up was around the smell. A lot of women were like, men have to think that vulvas smell bad, right?

No, just no. Just no.

Just no.

Just no. I mean, look, I. I think that this is. This is tricky because the way you word it, is it unpleasant that, like, gives an implication? I guess, that, like, it should be pleasant? The reality is our bodies don't smell like ro. Noses. And also, everyone's idea of what a pleasant smell is.

Is it an enjoyable smell to you?

Yeah, it's an enjoyable smell to me because it has all kinds of associations with really hot and sexy things. Like, it's something I've been thinking about since puberty, and, you know, I have that. That smell has the, you know, experiential associations with fun stuff.

Stuff. Fun stuff. Fun leads to fun stuff. Okay, so the men on Instagram were wildly in agreement with you. Men love vulvas. Straight men love vulvas. I think this is something that we women who sleep with men really need to get into our heads. Men love vulvas. Maybe that should be the title of this episode. Just men love vulvas in all caps. Yeah, so it was interesting. Like, the majority of the responses that we got on Instagram, it wasn't even like. Like, men being neutral about it like it's fine. No, like we're not, you know, it's not unpleasant. All the responses were men actively talking about how much they love the way that vulvas smell and look and taste. You know, we had responses like, never met one I didn't like, I love that, can't get enough and fabulous, fantastic, perfect. And going back to the pubic hair thing, a lot of men said that they liked women that have some pubic hair because pubic hair can make the vulva smell. It kind of like disperses the smell a little bit. So it's not that pubic hair makes vulvas smell stronger. It just like it can have a different sort of scent experience to it. So a lot of men called that out. But I want to ask you like kind of a follow up question. Like, what about the way a vulva looks?

What about the way it looks? All right, let me be really clear about this. If you are attracted to women, you're gonna like the way a vulva looks. Like, what do you think is going on in. In a guy's head, a straight guy's head. He's like, I really want to fuck that vulva, but oh, it's so gross. I'm not sure if I can do it. Like, that sounds like that, that sounds like. Like what? Like, come on.

I wanna fuck it, but it's so gross.

I wanna fuck. God, I wanna fuck it, but is so gross.

That would feel.

Or like, I want to it, but it's. But it's so neutral.

It's so neutral. I mean that sounds like it be a real, real conundrum for a man. Like, I just want to it so badly, but it's so. It's so gross. Do you think he'd still do it anyways even if it was gross?

Probably not. If I thought it was gross, I probably wouldn't be attracted to it. And then I probably wouldn't be straight like it.

Interesting points. Touche. Maybe that needs to be the title of the episode.

Straight men love vulvas.

I want to fuck that vulva, but it's so gross. Okay, one more question about this because there were just so many of these. Okay. Are you really not grossed out by doing oral stuff?

No, love it. I mean, I've been thinking about literally since puberty, I've been thinking about it. So.

All right, so the tldr of this episode. Men love vulvas. They like the way they smell, the way they taste, the way they look. They just like everything about them.

Yeah.

And it Would be really great if we women could internalize that. I just want to say to women out there who are feeling self conscious, like, I don't think just listening to this episode is going to flip a switch and you're all of a sudden going to be wildly confident about your vulva. Again, I want to validate. We have spent our entire lives being taught to be ashamed and embarrassed of our vulvas, and it's hard to undo that conditioning. And even for myself, there are times when you're going down on me that I'm like, oh, God, there's a little bit of self consciousness that comes up even after all these years, even after all this work I've done on my own relationship with my body. So I just want to validate that. But I hope that you could just let in a little bit of what Xander said and the men in our Instagram community said and realize, like, men really do like vulvas.

Yeah. And to. To the men out there, assuming you do like vulva and you are paying some attention to that vulva, give that vulva owner some compliments about it. Because there's. There's no amount of positive reinforcement that's too much. Like, if you. If you imagine this, how. What's going on inside her head, just try to do your part to continue giving that positive reinforcement. Just literally tell her how much you love it.

Yeah, absolutely. All right, so, you know, one final reminder here. We wanted to share all of these answers because we know that these are questions that you've really been wondering about, but it really ultimately doesn't matter what men think. What matters is, is what you think, what you feel. And so we hope that this episode maybe inspires you to get more confidence in yourself and to explore for yourself, like, what feels good and pleasurable and sexy and exciting for you, regardless of what Xander thinks. All right, so if you are not already, make sure to follow us on Instagram at Vanessa Marin Therapy. We do so much fun stuff on Instagram. We do a lot of behind the scenes stories. We do a lot of. Of really bizarre and funny stuff. We do polls and surveys. Like, that's where we got all the information for this episode. So definitely follow along there. And we would love it if you could share this episode to your Instagram story, tag us in it so we can see that you posted it. And yeah, it'd be just great to get your support in spreading the good word of the Pillow Talks podcast.

Yeah. Let everyone know what Xander thinks about all men. All right, so that's it for today's episode of Pillow Talk. Thank you so much for listening. Join us again next week. We'll have an advice column style episode called Is this your or Mine? And you're just gonna have to listen to figure out what that really is.

See you next week.