EPISODE 72: The Lowdown On Painful Sex

I wanted to read that specific story because that's such an important connection that a lot of people don't make. Like there is no reason to crave something that is a painful, unenjoyable experience. Hello and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Xander Marin. I'm a sex Therapist with over 20.

Years of experience and I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationships while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.

Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. Today we're talking about a topic that is not exactly fun, but is a very important topic to talk about. Something that does not get talked about nearly enough, and that is pain during sex. Anybody can experience pain during sex or more broadly can experience like pelvic pain. But in this episode, we're going to be talking specifically about vulva pain. Vulva owners experiencing pain primarily during intercourse or any sort of penetration that's going on, because this in particular is something that is just not talked about. And there are so many vulva owners who are suffering in silence.

But first, we want to say thanks to our new sponsor, Cozy Earth, for supporting our podcast shop High quality Goods with responsibly and sustainably sourced materials from the earth@cozyearth.com and get 35% off site wide when you use the code Pillow Talks.

Also thanks to Storyworth for supporting Pillow Talks. Get to know your loved ones better and preserve those special moments forever. With Storyworth, you can save $10 on your first purchase when you go to storyworth.com pillow so there was a really huge study that was done that asked women specifically if they've experienced pain during intercourse. And 30% of women said that they had experienced pain the last time they had sex.

Wow.

That's not like one time in their lifetime or like a couple years ago. The last time they had intercourse, 30% of women, almost one out of every three women experienced pain. That is just a mind blowing statistic.

Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, we brought it to our own Instagram audience and asked them because, you know, we, we just want to know directly from all of you in our community, how is this, you know, how is this coming up for you? And 82% of vulva owners in our audience said that they have experienced pain during sex at some point in time.

8 and 10?

Yeah, 8 and 10. At some point in time. Now we decided, okay, we gotta get a little more spec specific than that. So of those people who have experienced pain during sex at some point in time, 15% said that they regularly experience pain. So that's like all the time, right? 63% said infrequently, but they do experience pain at times. And 22% said somewhere in between. Somewhere in between. You know, infrequently and regularly.

When we put these polls up, we got so many women sharing DMs with their stories, what they've been through. I wanted to read one in particular because it just felt so representative of a lot of the themes that we kept seeing come up. I'm 32 years old and I have no clue what vaginal sex is supposed to feel like. My pain can last up to an hour. Afterwards, I have to sit in warm baths. It burns to pee. It's terrible. How am I supposed to crave sex when I or have any sort of desire to want it at all when that's my experience? I'm feeling defeated. So we're not even gonna get into the sex drive aspect of it. But I wanted to read that specific story. Cause that's such an important connection that a lot of people don't make. Like, there is no reason to crave something that is a painful, unenjoyable experience. It's one thing if you're into sexual pain, sure, yeah. But for somebody who's having pain that they don't want, that they can't control, like it really is going to chip away at your desire because it just doesn't make any sense for your body to crave an experience of pain. We want you to know that pain should not and does not need to be a part of your sexual experience. So in this episode, we are going to tell you three things you need to know about pain during sex and some specific steps that you can take towards pain free sex.

But first, per usual, it's review of the week. Time takes relationships from great to Star Eyes, Hearts on Fire, rocket shit. And I think there's probably even more because I see three dots. I think Apple cut it off. Sorry, you made too long of a headline. All right. I played an episode of your podcast on a road trip this past weekend and my fiance actually liked it and was laughing along. Well, I'm glad they actually liked it.

Wow, your fiance really picky or what?

We listened to it for almost 12 hours in total.

Wow.

All right, all right. Dang. I'm impressed.

I'm very impressed.

I'm impressed. At his request. Mind blown. We had a lot of good conversations and so many laughs, and I think that we were both in such an aware of each other and our feelings mindset. It was our best vacation yet. We had a wonderful time, and both came home with huge smiles. Couldn't shut up about how good of a time we had. We just felt so close and like lifelong best friends, and it was perfect. I think your podcast and Instagram do so much, even outside of the bedroom by opening up and taking away hesitation and shame with these awkward conversations. Awkward is in quotes there, which I really appreciate. Feelings you probably don't even realize that you have. And breaking it up with some humor here and there, it just had us feeling like a 2008 Taylor Swift love song all over again. Two hearts on fire, kissy face. Two kiss eyes. Needless to say, I mean, it's kiss hard eye. Oh, God. Heart eye. You know, my brain totally short circuited because the one before, it was like, kissy face.

Oh, it's not kissy face.

I said kissy face. Heart face. Heart face. Double heart eyes. There we go. My brain is not entirely working.

We were talking about this episode before we sat down to record it this morning, and Xander kept saying, sex during pain. Sex during pain. And I was like, oh, God, you're gonna get such a mental block and keep repeating that over and over again.

But I have not messed it up yet.

You haven't, but now you've got this weird switcheroo with kissy face and heart face.

We're. We're not that far in yet. I. I have plenty of time for the switcheroo. All right. Needless to say, love the podcast Four Hearts. Thank you for doing what you do. You're welcome.

Thank you for this delightful review. We love listening to podcasts on road trips together. And I think this is. I mean, not to toot our own horn too much, but, like, I do think this is a great PO podcast to listen to on a road trip where you can pause it, you can talk about the things that we talked about. Like, I think sometimes the. The advice episodes can be really fun too, because you guys can pause it and see, like, oh, do you agree with our advice, or would you say something different? But I think road trips are such a great way and a great opportunity to, like, open up these deeper conversations with each other. I mean, we've had a lot of great conversations on road trips.

Oh, yeah.

Stuck in the car, you're like, might as well talk.

Absolutely. And I think podcasts really pass the time in the car. Better than music.

Thank you so much for this delightful review. Reviews seriously make the biggest difference in helping us grow the podcast and reach new couples. We have been getting so many more DMS on Instagram from people saying, I found the podcast first, and then I liked it so much, I came over to Instagram to follow you guys here too. And that is just making our day. So the reviews really, really do help. Thank you so much for leaving them. So we do this little giveaway every single week. We pick a the week, and if you are picked, you can DM us on Instagram, ask a question, and we will send you back a personalized coaching session just for you. All you have to do to enter is leave a review for us on Apple Podcasts and you will just be entered into the giveaway every week going forward. So just write a review once, set it, and forget it. All right, let's get into it. We are going to Share with you 3 things to know about pain during sex. So the first is that this is.

A problem and it's a real thing.

That might sound obvious, but unfortunately, there are just so many people out there who don't realize that this is a problem that think that this is just normal. It's to be expected.

Part of the deal.

Yeah. And that's so heartbreaking. You know, we put up a poll on Instagram and we asked people, were you ever told or did you ever believe that pain is just a part of sex? And for 40% of people said yes. And I think that's not a surprise, honestly, like, think about how we talk about losing your virginity. I'm putting that in air quotes because we prefer to use the term having your sexual debut, but we always talk about losing your virginity as a painful experience.

Yeah. Did it hurt?

Yeah, like, it's gonna hurt. We build up a lot of anxiety in our minds about it, but, like, oh, my God, it's gonna hurt so bad and I'm gonna bleed all over the place. It's gonna be this big mess. And, yeah, I just think it's norma from there to, like, just think that all of sex is supposed to be painful. So it's just, you know, again, really heartbreaking to think of 40% of people just thinking, like, yeah, that's part of the deal. It's not. Sex should never be painful. Another part of this that, like, makes it even more complicated is so many people in our audience reached out to say that they tried to pursue treatment options, or they tried to, like, ask their doctor about it and they felt like they weren't taken seriously. Seriously by their medical provider. And I want to be really careful here. Like, we're not trying to bash doctors. Like, we know that doctors want to help and want to try to provide as many resources as they can. We just want to share the stories that we heard from women in our audience of saying, you know, they felt like they just weren't taken very seriously. Some people actually had doctors who said that is just part of the deal. Or, you know, offered to, like, run a test or two, but couldn't find anything actually wrong. And so therefore nothing was actually wrong.

Or, like, make you feel like, oh, it must be in your head.

Must be in your head.

You couldn't find any reason why something's wrong.

Yeah. So we're going to talk about this in a minute as well, But I think that just makes it so much trickier is if you got up the courage to talk to a medical provider and say, hey, you know, this is going on. I don't think this is normal. And feeling like you didn't really get any resources or any answers, like, of course that would just contribute to this feeling of, well, you just gotta grit your teeth and get through it.

Yeah. I mean, the good news is that there are some doctors who do specialize in this, and we're going to talk about that later. And I think the challenge is that the vast majority of doctors do not specialize in sexual pain. And so, of course, when you come to a doctor that has no training in sexual pain, they're going to be a bit mystified as to what is going on. And unfortunately, sometimes they will respond poorly and say things that end up making you feel bad or like something is just wrong with you.

Okay, next we want to talk a little bit more about pain itself. So one of the reasons why sexual pain is so challenging to diagnose and to treat is because there can be multiple causes, and all of those causes can interact with each other. So it's not this straightforward, like, oh, A causes B, so you just fix A. And again, that's why we understand, like, it's not like all the doctors out there are trying to be rude and dismissive to their clients. It's like, this is a really tricky thing to unwind. So this is just a sampling of some of the conditions that can cause pain during sex. Pelvic floor muscle issues, hormones, nerve issues, vulvodynia, the husband stitch.

What's that?

Have you Heard of that?

Oh, I think I. I think I have. I feel like this deserves maybe a little more explanation for the audience. You can probably picture what it is, unfortunately.

So the husband stitch is when a woman gives birth vaginally. This used to be a very common practice. It's. It's very barbaric. And unfortunately, it is still done to this day to a much less degree. But it used to be done very regularly in the past where the doctor would put an extra stitch in to make the vagina tighter. But this can cause so many problems, so much pain, scarring, all kinds of stuff. It's really. I mean, barbaric is the best word for it. So that's the husband stitch pain can also be caused by endometriosis, bladder pain, which is sometimes known as interstitial cystitis, pelvic inflammatory disease, uterine fibroids, and even psychological causes. So that's a long list, and it's not exhaustive at all. And making it even more complicated, you can have pain in a number of different areas in the pelvic region. So there can be different places in the vulva and the vagina, the uterus, the bladder, all the muscles that, like, wrap around that entire area. So it can be really difficult to even pinpoint, like, where is the pain.

My own experience with pain, not sexual pain, but just pain in general, is that you have a painful experience and then you go to do something similar to that sometime in the future, and you start anticipating the pain. You start remembering the pain from the last time you did it, and then you're already tense, and, like, it's just. It's so hard when you are experiencing some amount of pain. Like, you know, there. There's that huge psychological component of like. Like the memory of the pain, the fear of the pain, and that just makes everything worse.

So I know that's, like, some tough news to hear, that pain is really complex. It can be very challenging to unwind. But we do want to share some good news, which is that there are a lot of treatment options. So Xander was sort of hinting at this a few minutes ago. Like, unfortunately, there are not a lot of doctors who are trained in diagnosing and treating sexual pain. We just want to be, like, realistic with you that it may be challenging to find somebody who is trained like that, but there are a lot of treatment options that have been developed, especially in the last couple of years. Like, it's really come a long way. So there are things like pelvic floor, physical therapy, dilators, medications, supplements, Topical creams, trigger point injections with anesthetics. It's kind of similar to acupuncture, actually. Botox.

Not in your face.

Not in your face. Yeah, there's some really interesting research that's showing that Botox can treat sexual pain. There's also dietary changes, lifestyle changes, acupuncture and cbd. There are also a lot of steps that you can take at home to mitigate or prevent sexual discomfort and sexual pain. So the things that we just ran through, those are for more complex cases of sexual pain. But if you are experiencing like a little bit of discomfort or mild pain or just occasional pain, we also wanted to give you some like, like practical strategies to set yourself up for success for a pain free sexual experience. So again, these are things that probably are not going to work if you have a more serious, you know, condition or serious pain. But these are still helpful little things that you can do.

All right, so the first one, we say this all the time, but this makes such a difference. If you are experiencing any kind of pain, use lube every single time, like literally every single time you have sex. And when the lube feels like it's wearing off, apply some more lube. I think that when it comes to lube, like, there's a lot of misunderstandings or a lot of like, feelings like, oh, well, I don't want to use lube because it means something is wrong with me or just like misunderstandings about how to use it. And like with lube, it's just like you keep using it like it's not meant to last forever. It does kind of dry up. And so there's nothing stopping you from continuing to apply lube. It doesn't matter who you apply it to, whether it's applying it to the vulva, applying it to the penis, applying it to both, applying it to your toy, to your finger, to whatever. I think a lot of people get a lot of hang ups around lube. And like, our perspective, there's really nothing that you can do wrong with lube. Right? Like, you could put too much on and then after a little while, some of it will dry up and you'll have just the perfect amount. Like, there's really like, the only thing that you could do wrong is like, pour it down your throat. Don't do that.

Wow.

Okay.

I didn't think you were going in that direction. No, I think that lube gets a bad rap. And, you know, we are such big fans of lube, we think that everyone should be using it regardless of if you experience any sort of pain or discomfort. Like, lube amplifies sensations, it makes everything feel better. But it definitely goes such a long way towards preventing any sort of pain or discomfort. It just, I mean, it's. It lubes up these delicate tissues that you have and makes them less susceptible to any sort of, like, little micro tears or pulling or friction, that kind of stuff. So it really is such a great option. Again, like, lube is not going to work for a more serious pain condition, but it's just such a great preventative measure that everyone should be doing okay. Another tip is don't have sex when you don't feel any desire. So this kind of, you know, looping back to that story that we shared at the beginning of the episode, like, there are so many women who are pushing themselves to have sex out of a sense of guilt or obligation with their partner, and it's the sort of like, well, I'm not going to desire it and I'm not going to enjoy it, so I might as well just get through it. And that's just going to make your experience of pain so much worse. So please don't force yourself to have sex that you don't want to have. It's just going to be a negative experience.

Another tip is give yourself plenty of time to warm up and get aroused, but before even attempting penetration. And I think, like, we've been giving this advice for as long as we've been in business of, like, have more foreplay. Like, get warmed up, get aroused. And, you know, that was kind of one of the reasons why we created the foreplay guides, which, which we sell now, is that we started to realize that it's one thing to just tell people, yeah, I have more foreplay, but then people are like, well, like, what do I do? It's. It's awkward. I don't feel comfortable doing it. So, like, we literally sketch out. This is how you give a hand job. This is how you give a blow job. This is how you finger a vulva. This is how you go down on a vulva a lot of different ways, positions, techniques. The goal is just like, if you feel more comfortable doing these kinds of things, then it's going to be something that you really get excited about doing during sex. And very often these types of things, you know, especially for vulva owners, can be more pleasurable than the intercourse itself. And so if, if you start with that, you can, you can really get your body and your mind so much more ready and excited and aroused if you just really spend more Time on foreplay.

Yeah, I mean, if we talk specifically about CIS male female relationships, I mean, so many couples jump into intercourse very quickly. We've really over prioritized intercourse. We act like that's the main thing, the only thing that counts. And like you were saying, it's not the most pleasurable activity for the vast majority of women. We, we pulled this on Instagram in the past, and I think like 91% of women said that intercourse is not the most pleasurable activity. But if you're jumping right into it before you've given your body any time to warm up, it's going to feel painful, it's gonna feel uncomfortable. Cause your body's just not ready for that. And you know, we, we make a lot of dumb jokes about like, oh, women are like ovens, you need time to preheat and all of that. But like, being penetrated is a pretty intense thing. Like, having your body penetrated is pretty intense. And so this idea of, you know, I just, I don't like the way that we make fun of women for that. But at the same time, like, you can't just jump into penetration immediately. Like, we do need time to warm up. The other thing I want to say about foreplay is actually literally on the first page of the foreplay guides, we say we don't like the word foreplay.

Yeah, it does.

It implies that these things are like, lesser than sexual. But, you know, another thing that you can do with foreplay is like, foreplay can be the main event. It doesn't have to be the things that you do before you have intercourse.

Yeah. Like it is sex.

Yeah, foreplay is sex. So if intercourse is ever feeling painful or if you are going through, you know, a more intense sexual pain condition and you need time to pursue treatment, like, you can have other forms of foreplay and you don't have to have any sort of penetration whatsoever to still have an enjoyable experience. So we'll link to those foreplay guides in the show notes. I mean, they definitely are such a great way to have more pleasurable experiences. Okay, we want to tell you a little bit more about Cozy Earth before we get any further. So, like, with anything that we do ads for on the podcast, we had to try these out for ourselves. So we got ourselves some new Cozy Earth sheets and. Tell me about your experience, Ander.

Well, I'm loving the Cozy Earth sheets. So we, we actually have, we have, we have two different pairs of sheets that we swap. Like one week on one sheet and then one week on the other sheets. And we were getting towards the end of the week on the other sheets and I found myself thinking, oh, I want those fresh Cozy Earth sheets on my bum and my legs.

I mean, I don't know if they're going to let us say that in there in an ad on your bum.

I sleep on my back or I try to sleep on my back and you know, there's, you know, I feel the sheets on my bum.

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I mean after the first week, so you know, then, then we had the, the old sheets and then a couple days in, I was like, ah, give me, give me the cozies back.

I think even straight out of the bag you were like rubbing your face on them. You're pretty into them right away.

Yeah.

So Cozy Earth is providing an exclusive offer for Pillow Talks listeners today. You can get 35 off site wide when you use the code Pillow talks@cozyearth.com Let's tell you a little bit more about Storyworth. So you may have heard us say before that we signed up both of my parents for this and they have been taking it very seriously.

Yeah, they have.

They're really getting into it. My mom, the last time we were talking about it, had this really emotional little speech about how she thinks this is very important. She keeps thinking about how it's gonna be a keepsake for us kids to look back on and like learn more about them. So she's been making sure my dad stays on top of his questions. But they're both like genuinely enjoying fil.

It out and they're getting a little competitive with each other to see who does more.

They are. Yeah. So they're really keeping each other on track with answering their questions. And just a little reminder, StoryWorth is offering $10 off your first purchase@storyworth.com pillow. So it's been really interesting for me because we get these little notifications every time they get sent questions and answer questions. So the whole thing with Storyworth, if you've Never heard about it before is that it sends your loved ones a weekly question, and then at the end of a year, they put it together and turn it into this keepsake book. And you can have stories, you can have pictures. So it's this really cool experience. But you kind of get to peep on them during the process because you're getting these notifications. So I can see their progress. I can see the questions that they're answering. And it's really funny because some of the questions are just immediate. Like, oh, yeah, I'm sure that's gonna be a great one. I saw a question of what's your best relationship advice? I can't wait to read that. But even the questions that I initially didn't think would be super powerful have actually ended up producing these really incredible stories. Like, my mom answered this question, did you have a car in high school? And you wouldn't think about that as necessarily a super emotional or deep question, but she had this whole story about her first car and all kinds of stuff. I won't go into the whole thing, but it was just. Just I was really surprised by how much could come out of these very simple prompts. So my parents are loving Storyworth. We are so excited to see what they come up with at the end of this year. And we really recommend this. If you want to get to know your loved ones better and preserve all these special moments forever, check out storyworth right now. For a limited time. You can save $10 on your first purchase when you go to storyworth.com pillow that is S T O R-Y-W-O-R-T-.com pillow to save 10 DOL on your first purchase. Okay, another tip is to go slow. This kind of goes hand in hand with what we were saying about how a lot of couples jump to intercourse. It's like, you know, you make out for two minutes and then you go right into the intercourse. And you tend to, like, go really quickly with it, too.

I mean, I've been guilty of this.

There's a lot of. I think a lot of men who've watched a lot of porn where there's a lot of jackhammering action going on and. And that is just going to be not good.

Yeah, guys, like 99% of women don't want that. I'm just. I mean, I'm making. I'm making that stat up.

There's a time and place for the jackhammering, but not immediately.

Definitely not immediately.

Not immediately, not every time, and definitely not if you're experiencing any sort of discomfort or pain. So go slow means, like, you know, work your way up to having penetration if you are going to have any penetration. And when you do have penetration, if you don't do, make sure that you're going really slow.

And this might be something that you need to ask your partner or tell your partner or continue to remind them of. I can speak for myself as a guy, as a penis owner, you know, it's one thing to hear something, okay, yeah, let's go slow. And then you get started and you get excited, and your instincts maybe start to take over a little bit. And, you know, like, if Vanessa asks me, hey, can we slow down in the middle? Like, I'm not getting upset with her, honestly, like an appreciated reminder. And so I just. I think that it's something where, if the expectation is, hey, you know, this is something that you may need to ask for a number of times or continue asking for, continue reminding or cueing your partner. Also, like, you can also, as the vulva owner, you could get into positions where you tend to be a bit more in control of the speed and pace, and that can be a good way to go at the pace that really feels good. Good to you. Which brings us to our next point.

Which is you teed yourself up.

I. I did. I teed myself up. Because the next point is that it's great to keep experimenting with different positions and especially with different angles. I think a lot of people really get in their heads when it comes to sex positions. And I think, like, each sex position is this totally distinct thing where we have to stop and move and change. But the reality is there are so many different little, small tweaks that you can make in a given sex position or what you think of as sex position, that will totally change the sensation for both partners. Like, Vanessa. And I really like to think of these variations as, like, their own positions.

Oh, yeah, for sure.

Like, you could be, in general, missionary, and you could do, like, four or five different adjustments in terms of, like, angles, and it can feel like four or five completely different positions.

Yeah, I mean, I think the positions are so important because everybody's body works differently, and so a position that one couple might really like might cause pain for another couple. And so just being willing to play around with angles and see how your bodies fit together is just so important. And that's going to go a long way towards decreasing any potential pain that you might feel.

Yeah, I mean, hearing you say that, like, we hear from. We've heard from so Many people, for example, they're like, oh, I hate cowgirl. Cowgirl doesn't work for me. It's so hard on my legs. It's so hard on my hand hips. And, you know, in our sex position playbook, we go into so much detail on how to do these different positions, how to get in, how to get out, how to modify. And I feel like we've changed so many people's minds on cowgirl and on sex positions in general, where it's like, hey, there's actually a couple small little tweaks that you can make to take something from feeling like, oh, my God, this is the worst sex position. I never want to do it again. To, like, oh, my God, I love this. And, like, I want to do this every single time. So, like, don't write things off, because you tried it once and it was really hard. There are a lot of modifications that can be made, especially if you check out our sex position playbook.

All right. And we also want to recommend a couple of books to check out. So first one is Dr. Sonia's guide to Navigating Pelvic Pain. This is written by a friend of mine, Dr. Sonia Balani. We shout her out on Instagram a lot. She's@pelvicpain.com on Instagram. She is awesome. And this book is just really straightforward, very practical. A few other great books are Healing Painful Sex, A Woman's Guide to Confronting, Diagnosing, and Treating Sexual Pain, and When Sex Hurts, A Woman's Guide to Banishing Sexual Pain. So we will link to those in the show notes as well.

All right, let's get to some listener questions now. First one, anything we can do to mitigate size incompatibility? I think we're probably talking about penis involvement here.

Well, we could be talking about a number of different things. I mean, it could also be height compatibility.

It could be height. It could be, you know, we got the wrong toys.

Uhhuh. So, I mean, we'll put another little plug in for our sex position playbook because we do talk about how to make two different bodies fit together. And we do talk specifically about, like, positions for larger penises, for smaller penises. So that's all in there. But I'm gonna guess that this question is talking specifically about having a partner that's on the larger side. So there are a few things. One is that you want to look for positions where you're going to have shallower penetration, typically where your bodies are, like, further away from each other because you don't Want your partner, you know, they're on the larger side. You don't want them, like, going as deeply into your body as they could. So you want to look for positions that are better for that shallower penetration. Another really great tip is there's this product called the Onut O h N u t. We're not sponsored by them or anything, but it's this really interesting toy that you basically put over the penis. And it kind of serves as like, a bumper, like, so the penis can't go as far into you because it. You hit the bumper instead.

Yeah, it doesn't. It doesn't cover the entire penis. It goes around the penis and it sits kind of at the base of the penis, so effectively making the penis shorter. But I think it helps the penis owner because there's something squeezing the penis.

You're still getting sensation.

It feels like you're getting sensation on the entire thing. So you don't feel like, oh, my God, I gotta put it all the way in.

Yeah, for sure. So check that out too.

All right, what about this? He always hits my cervix and it hurts.

Okay, so this one could be exactly the same as before, like the size incompatibility. So the owna could be great here. But I also think there's something to be said about talking to your partner about your experience. So we had so many people on Instagram sharing stories and, like, and telling us that they'd never told their partner that they were experiencing pain or it took them years to tell their partner that they were experiencing pain. So kind of like what you were saying earlier, I think a lot of guys have this expectation that jackhammering is the way to go.

Yeah. Harder is better, deeper is better. I mean, and then. Then there's also all this bullshit out there about, like, cervical orgasms and guys like, oh, yeah, let me hit that surface.

Yeah, no, seriously. And so I think that, that it's really important to communicate with your partner and let them know, like, I actually prefer shallow earth resting. Or it hurts. Hurts when you go too deep. Like, I don't want to, you know, you to be thinking about hitting them walls. So to talk to your partner about that.

And yeah, it's. That's so helpful because, you know, I know that there's been a couple of times, you know, probably earlier in our relationship when we were having sex where, like, I did hit your cervix. And I think you mentioned, like, oh, like, that's my cervix. Like, that hurts because. Because for. From my Perspective. It's not like you hit a brick wall. It's which. Which sounds awful.

Wow.

I was like, oh. Like, I'm definitely really deep. But for me, I didn't have a sensation of like, oh, this is hurting me. So it was very helpful to hear from Vanessa, like, that extra pressure you're feeling at the end there, like, that's actually not enjoyable to me. And so that really quickly cued me of like, okay, so like, in this position, this is not good. In this position to go so deep or to like, to do it like this, or if I feel this, that means that must be really be hurting her. And so that's super, super helpful context for me to have. Cuz otherwise it'd just be like, oh, man, that's so deep. Like, oh, this feels good. Great. Must feel good for her too. And speaking of harder and faster, another person asked. It seems like all guys need is harder and faster to finish, which can hurt. But I can't tell him not to. But can you? Can you?

You can and you need to. So, I mean, okay, this is an interesting one because if something is causing you pain, I don't care how much pleasure your partner is experiencing, if it's causing you pain, you should not do it. So it's like, I don't care if you're saying, oh, my partner's gonna have the most incredible orgasm, but it's gonna cause me a lot of pain. Like, no, that's not an option. It's not an option for you to sacrifice yourself and force yourself to be feeling pain because your partner is feeling pleasure. So, I mean, there are a lot of issues with this question. One is like, not all guys need harder and faster to finish.

A lot of guys maybe think that that's what they're supposed to do or that's what you want. That's what they've seen in porn.

Some people who, you know, who do want harder and faster to finish might have different sorts of performance issues going on. Like maybe using the death grip and needing increased sensation. We have a YouTube video about that. That. So it might be something that he needs to work out on his own rather than something that you need to subject yourself to. And like, you do need to talk to your partner and tell them if there are things that are causing you pain and you get to have boundaries and you know, and say, like, that doesn't feel good for me. I don't want to be doing that. Your partner should not guilt you or pressure you or make you feel like, oh, you have to. Because that's what I need.

Yeah. And if they do do that, that they're not a good partner. Like, get out. Run. Like, yeah. Like, sorry. Like, guys, like, if. If you're feeling that way, if you're saying that that's messed up, that's messed up, and, like, you don't deserve to be having sex with this person, because the reality is that there's a lot of other options. If you truly do need something very specific at the end in order to come, like, harder and deeper and faster, then you guys need to have a conversation about, okay, can I use my hand? Like, what? Once, you know, towards the end, can you use your hand on me or your mouth? Or can we, you know, can we find some toys? There are a number of toys that you could probably get that are going to give you the exact, you know, the exact sensation that you want, and you can be completely in control of the speed. So there are a ton of options for how you guys can come to something that's going to work for both of you.

Come to something.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, I kind of want to turn the listener questions over to you for a minute, though, because in looking through, like, the DMs that we got in response to the polls that we were putting up, like, there were so many questions from women that were, like, so focused on their male partner's experience on, like, oh, I don't want to tell him that. I don't want to make him do that. I don't want to make him feel bad. It was, like, so much fixation on the partner. And I'm just curious, what do you think about, like, what's your reaction hearing about all of these women who are experiencing pain during sex?

I mean, honestly, like, I'm kind of shocked. You know, we. We talk about this. I know that sexual pain is a thing. I know that as long as you have been a sex therapist, you've been seeing clients that deal with sexual pain. But, like, looking at the actual stats, like we talked about at the beginning of the episode, you know, when I see those stats, I know with almost near certainty that I have for sure been with a partner in the past that has experienced sexual pain. And no one has ever told me that they're experiencing sexual pain. And so I'm nearly certain that I have been with one or more people who have probably experienced some pain and probably not told me, and that bums me out. It's sad. You know, I wish that I had known because I don't want to be Having sex that is one sided, I don't want to be having sex, sex that is painful for someone and you know, it. Actually, of course, it would be a tough conversation to find out, especially if you've been having sex for a long time and like, hey, for a long time this has been hurting. I think this is an argument for bringing this up earlier as soon as possible so that it doesn't turn into a big thing of like, oh, it's been years and I've actually been in a lot of pain. But, you know, ultimately getting past the, you know, the initial toughness, I do think it was, would be a really vulnerable type of conversation that would help serve to get me closer with the person I'm having that conversation with. Because then we can talk about, okay, like, what are some options? Let's try some new things that are going to maybe work a little better. And hey, spoiler alert. Like, trying new things also is fun and sexy and something that brings you closer together. So ultimately, I think it's just an opportunity for building more connection and more understanding.

So the bottom line here is that nobody deserves to experience pain during sex. Nobody should have to feel pain during sex. So we really hope that this episode has given you some information, some tools, some resources, and the motivation to seek out a doctor to look up treatment options, to read a book. I, you know, I again, want to be realistic. Like, I know that this might be a difficult road for a lot of of people out there, like trying to find a specialist and trying to get to the root of what's going on. But you deserve it. You deserve to have sex that is pleasurable and pain free. So we're going to link a couple of things in the show notes, those books that we mentioned, the Foreplay guides and the Sex Position Playbook.

All right, well, that's it for today's episode of Pillow Talks. Thank you so much for listening. Join us again next week when we talk about whether or not you owe it to your partner to have sex with them.

This is going to be a really interesting episode because obviously the answer is no, you do not owe your partner anything. But there is also a lot of nuance in here. So we're really going to get into all that murky gray area and explore this surprisingly complex topic.

Sam.