EPISODE 75: Am I Being Unreasonable?

If you don't put boundaries in place, if you only have your boundaries kind of in your head and you never verbalize them, like, you're going to get trampled.

Hello, and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Zander Marin. I'm a sex therapist with over 20 years of experience.

And I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.

Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. I gotta say, I'm pretty excited for this week's episode.

Oh, yeah?

Yeah. We are answering the question, am I being unreasonable? And I was. I was thinking, like, you know, Xander hasn't sung in the beginning of an episode in a while. I don't think that there are any songs that come to mind. You know, an unreasonable song.

No, but is it reason? Wait.

Oh, my God, you did not. What are you trying to sing?

Wait, now. As soon as I started singing it, it didn't come out the way I thought.

Wait, wait, but think what?

You were kind of. It's not unreasonable to be loved by anyone.

That is exactly what I was gonna make you sing.

Wait, but now the unreasonable part is not the lyric. It's not actually flowing tongue writing unreasonable.

It's not unusual.

Not unusual.

That is really weird. I literally was just sitting here thinking, like, I'm gonna make him sing something. What's an unreasonable song? I got nothing. The first thing I went to, this is not unusual. That's really tripping me out that we both came up with that.

It's not unreasonable that we're married. Our brains, you know, we think the same way sometimes. You know, it's proof.

Twisted way.

It's proof that we can read each other's minds. And so, you know, all of our own communication hacks actually don't apply to us.

I'm literally joking. I'm so surprised. That was really weird. It's not even the same. It's like the same song, but we both turn the lyrics around, like unusual to unreasonable.

Oh. And in my head, it was for sure. At first I thought it was reasonable, and then I was like, this doesn't come out right. And then I was like, oh, yeah, no, it is not unreasonable. And I was like, there's one too many syllables in this. It's not Unusual. But how does it go? It's like to be loved by anyone or to be loved by someone. I don't know.

Sing it again with Unreasonable, Though it's not unreasonable.

Yeah, that's all I got.

Wow. Thanks to our sponsor, Cozy Earth, for supporting our podcast. Shop high quality goods with responsibly and sustainably sourced materials from the earth@cozyearth.com and get 35% off site wide when you use the code. Pillow talks. Gosh, I don't know how we're gonna top that intro now, but we are talking about the question, is it unreasonable? We put a call out to our Instagram audience and we asked you guys for examples of, like, what's something like a request that you want to make of your partner or something you want your partner to change? Something you guys argue about and you're like, you're unsure. Am I being unreasonable by wanting this or continuing depressed for this? And I gotta say, there were a lot of situations that we got where I was shocked that people felt like they were being unreasonable. Like, a lot of very reasonable requests that people are making of their partner that I. Okay, so a lot of these situations are nuanced that we're gonna get into. A lot of them are kind of like, oh, I could see the partner's perspective. I can see the person's perspective. Like, this is a tricky one. But there were a lot of ones that were just straight up, like, wow, it actually kind of makes me sad that this person is doubting whether or not it's reasonable. We did include some of in here because I got a little fired up reading over a few of them.

But might you say that people are maybe being unreasonable about how unreasonable they think things are?

Yes. So we're going to get into it. We've got some really interesting ones today, so.

But we're not. I don't think it's going to be all, like, siding with the person asking the question. No, no, necessarily. I mean, we haven't really talked about them, but you did kind of foreshadow it. Like, there's a lot of people out there doing some ridiculous things, and of course it's unreasonable.

I mean, there are. I was kind of expecting that we'd see 50, 50. Like, some of them were like, I think you're right versus some of them. We were thinking, I don't think you're being reasonable here. But it was very heavily skewed in you're being reasonable. And it's wild that you don't think you're being reasonable. Anyways, we're going to get into it, but here's the setup for this episode is that we had our team put together, like, a big list of possibilities. We went through and decided which ones we wanted to address in this episode, but we have not talked about them together.

Nope.

So we don't know each other's opinions. We're gonna learn that live. And we haven't really, like, fully fleshed out our opinions on each and every single one of these. So I think we're gonna give a gut check reaction. But we're also gonna try to, like, dig a little bit in with some of these too.

But before we give our reasonable or unreasonable opinions, we first got to get into the review of the week. Obsessed Vanessa and Xander keep it real. They're hilarious. Compassionate, understanding, validating and motivating, and truly want to improve the sex lives of all who listen. They give out so much goodness for free. Between Instagram, their courses, and their podcasts, I love how they go where no one else goes. Wow. This is very, very appropriate for today. Go in there normalizing the good, the bad, and the ugly. I'm in a long term relations relationship going on 13 years, and their content helps me know what I want, ask for what I want, and take the steps needed for a killer sex life. Thank you, V and X. We're an Aquarius cancer couple too, Wink. Just like us.

I'm the Aquarius. Xander is the cancer. Actually, just yesterday we put up a an Ask us anything box on Sundays like we always do, and somebody asked what our signs are and they guessed, actually. So we put up a little thing that was like, what do you think our star signs are and why? And I have to say, a lot of people nailed you as a cancer.

Oh, yeah.

I'm not that into astrology. Like, I'm. I'm not one of those people who can rattle off like, oh, yeah, like, Scorpios are like this and Capricorns are like that. So I don't know a ton. But, like, I would say 75, 80% of the responses were like, Xander's so obviously a cancer.

Wow. But good for me.

And nobody pegged me. There were like, maybe two responses that.

Said Aquarius, people think you are Scorpio. I feel like people always say, I don't know. I feel like that's like an insult kind of, but I don't really know why.

Oh, you're gonna get the Scorpios real mad at you, I'm sure.

I'm sure it Will then. Then again, I feel. I feel like cancer is also not the most desirable sign. I feel like I see. I feel like I see a lot of people talking shit about cancers online in all, you know, all the astrology accounts that I follow. Wink, wink. I don't.

I think everybody just thinks I'm a Scorpio because I'm, like, spicy. But no, I'm an Aquarius. All right, well, thank you so much for this delightful review from a fellow Aquarius cancer couple. Reviews really do help the podcast so much. It helps us grow, reach new people. It's what makes Apple and Spotify like, show our podcast to more people. So it's not just us wanting to get a little ego boost. Even though we do love hearing your kind words, it really helps the podcast reach new couples. So we do this giveaway every single week. If you leave us a review on Apple Podcast, we will enter you into the giveaway every week. Going forward, we pick a winner every week. And if you are the winner, you can DM us on Instagram at Vanessa Marin Therapy. Ask us a question, and we will send you back a free personalized little mini coaching session with our best advice for you. Okay, let's get into it. Here's our first one. And this one. I've laughed so hard reading this because this is our relationship, like, to a T. My husband has what I would call a higher tolerance for annoying things. Such a good way to describe you. He can put up with a lot, and I cannot. I'm constantly asking that he stop making a certain sound or doing a certain behavior, like talking with food stuffed in his cheek. Please just chew and swallow and then talk to me.

Definitely not me.

He's always saying that I just need to let go and let him be himself. I think that's one difference between us. You don't often say that to me.

I don't say that.

You don't really care.

Yeah, I don't say that. We're going to circle back to that line specifically, I think.

Okay, let me finish it up then. To a certain degree, I agree with him. However, if something is bothering me and I ask nicely for it to stop, is that wrong? Especially if it can be stopped or changed in the moment.

That's another. That last line is another. Another really good line. I think we're gonna have to. We're gonna have to dig into this one a little, but. Wow.

What's your gut check reaction? Let's start with the general idea of, like, if one person is more annoyed than things by the other. Is it okay to ask them to stop?

My gut check on this one is that both people are being a bit unreasonable.

Okay. Why?

Well, okay, first of all, the husband. I don't think it is reasonable to just be like, you just need to let go and let me be myself. If your perspective is, I want to do the things that I do because that's just me being me. That's how I'm authentic to myself, that can get problematic really quick.

Well, I think it's a tricky one because the only example that we have is talking with food stuffed in your cheek. And, like, I don't think that's a personality trait or like a value that you have. That's not. Like, that's me being me. Like, me just being my little. You know, it's like that's kind of, I think, objectively a bad habit.

Yeah, it is. And you know what?

It's like a personality defining thing.

Yeah. It is not. Yeah, it's not a personality trait. It's not a personality trait. Now, if it's something where it's like part of his personality is he just gets so excited sometimes he can't help himself by saying something. And every now and then that happens when there's some food in his mouth. And then like, maybe you can kind of play it off with a little bit of a joke, like, oh, my God, sorry, that's so gross. And then, like, cover your mouth up like, okay, sure. If that's your personality that. Oh, my God, I just get so excited, I can't contain myself. But to be like, oh, I just like to chew with my mouth full all the time, and that's who I am. And let me do that like that. That's a bit unreasonable. And I say this because this is my problem too. And I'm really working on it because I can see that it really bothers Vanessa. And perhaps it bothers Vanessa a little more than it would bother other people. But I do realize that, like, when we're with friends or perhaps with people that we don't know very well, I do this and I'm not very aware of it. And that's not really. Yeah, that's not really something that I want to be doing in front of people that perhaps I'm trying to make a good impression on. So I can see how it's not a very good habit. And I want to get better at it. Even though it's hard. It would be much easier for me to be like, nobody cares. Whatever. Fuck it.

Okay, so what I Think the person who wrote into this, I think that they are doing a bunch of things right, so they're saying, I ask nicely in the moment for it to stop. And to me that sounds really reasonable because when I'm thinking about it, like what I think would be unreasonable is saying I want to tell him stop just once and he'll never do it again. I don't think that's a reasonable request to make of somebody. But I think if this person is saying, I will ask in the moment, I will be nice and polite about it and not snapping and like, you buffoon, you're doing this again.

Buffoon. Great, great word.

I don't know where that came from.

Ye.

But I think that's reasonable to make those kinds of requests in the moment.

Absolutely. If. Especially if they're. If they're polite requests. You know where I think that the person asking the question may be being a bit unreasonable is in that final line. The. Especially if it can be stopped or changed in that moment. I think that there's sort of an idea of like, if you can change something, you should. It sounds a bit like there's sort of some perfectionistic tendencies or just like, just because you can, you should.

Oh, I take a totally different read on that. I take it as like it's a small thing, like, hey, just swallow your food before you speak to me. I didn't take a perfectionistic tone to it.

Okay. I mean, I guess. I guess I kind of saw this as perhaps an indicator of someone that's like, oh, well, if you could do that better, then you should just do it better. It's sort of like a constant, an over optimizing type of person, or like, just because this isn't perfect, you should do it perfect or something.

I didn't get that read on it at all. I mean, I also can really resonate with the person who wrote this question because I know that there's. It's frustrating sometimes to be the partner who cares more about those kinds of things. Like the word that I've used for this before is chill. I'm like, I want to be the chill partner who's just like, it doesn't matter, it's fine. I let things roll off my back and it can be just frustrating when you're not. When you are somebody where like, you know, things get under your skin, they bother you. So I do agree. I think you started off saying like, you know, both people in this relationship could put a little work in. I think it is worth evaluating for this person like, why do I get so annoyed? What are the specific moments that I get annoyed? Because one thing that I'll say for myself is that when I've got something else going on, my. My tolerance for annoyance comes way down.

Oh, yeah.

So if I'm irritated with you about something else, you can be chewing a piece of bread and I'm like, oh, my God, stop. You know, like, I can get really frustrated. So that's a bit of work that I could do is in those moments, like, taking a breath and, you know, instead of snapping or telling you to stop, trying to figure out, like, what is it that's coming up for me? Is there a request, you know, a different kind of like, a bigger request that I need to make of you? Is there something bigger that we need to talk about? Is there something that I need to do to take care of my own feelings in this moment rather than just focusing on the annoying behaviors?

Yeah. And if I were to give some advice to the husband here, try to save that line of just let me be me, Try to save that for perhaps something a little bigger or more important than this. Like, if that's kind of your line all the time of like, oh, I'm just being me, eventually it's going to turn into a sort of like the boy who cried wolf type of situation, where it's like, okay, you can't use that excuse for everything, or you just sound kind of like, really untitled, entitled and immature, perhaps, like, I just want to be. I just want to be a little boy. Deal with it.

Yeah.

So I would say save that for something bigger, like a personality trait or something that feels really fundamental to you, and your partner is nitpicking at it. That's a time to be like, hey, you know what? Like, this is who I am. Me doing this or saying this or whatever makes me happy. And this is. This is. This is who I am. Like, you know, chill. Yeah, that's fine. But I think if you're. If you're using that all the time for little things, your partner's pretty soon gonna just kind of lose respect for that. Yeah.

Okay, let's do one tiny little thing before we move on to the next one. Do you think it is unreasonable to want your partner to keep their mouth closed and not talk while they are chewing?

In our culture and society, no, it's not unreasonable.

Okay.

But I do want to call that out because this is a huge. There's some big cultural differences here. There are some cultures where maybe not even necessarily chewing with your mouth Open, but just like, making noise while you chew, slurping. You know, probably having your mouth open can be very polite and, in fact, required in certain situations.

That's a really good point. I'm glad that you brought that up. But, yeah, I think in this culture, I think it's a reasonable request to ask somebody to keep their mouth closed.

All right, next question. Is it unreasonable to ask him to trim his pubic hairs? It makes it so much easier for me to give a bj.

Okay, as our resident penis owner, what do you think about this one?

If he enjoys receiving blow jobs and he wants to continue receiving a reasonable amount of blowjobs, and I think it is reasonable to trim your pubic hair to make it a little more pleasant for your partner. Absolutely. Now, I think it would be a different thing if the person was like, I want him to get a boy zillion like, every. Every other week, and that's the only way I'll give him a blowjob like that. That's like, a different story. But, like, guys, trimming your pubic hair is a pretty low bar. And also, like, your dick looks bigger. Like, trim your pubic hair. Like, that's my psa. We are not sponsored, but we are not sponsored by any. Any grooming. Yeah, yeah. Male. Male grooming companies. I know they are huge on podcasts, but we are not. So I'm not going to name any names. I don't have any name brand things. I just have a beard trimmer. It works wonders. Also, just some little scissors. It's super easy. And honestly, it benefits you just as much. It looks way better.

I didn't think we were going to go there. Well, I'm glad you kind of brought up the Brazilian thing, because I was going to say okay. To me, the idea of asking somebody, you know, asking a man to trim his pubes to make it a little bit easier, that sounds like a reasonable request to me. And I think you made some good points. Like, it's trimming. It's not like, fully removing or, like, bleaching your hair. Like, something wild like that. It's like, it's. It's pretty easy. It's free to trim. It's not a big deal. And also, I think the spirit in what in which this is being asked is like. It's not like, ew, pubes are so gross and nasty. Like, you have to get rid of them. It's like, oh, no.

It just. Just.

It. You know, it tickles my nose a little bit. It's just easier when they're not quite as long. So that sounds reasonable. But I was gonna say, like, well, let's imagine swapping genders here, and let's imagine that this was a vulva owner who was their partner was saying this. Then I think, yeah, if it was something like, oh, I want you to wax it all off. You have to wax it. I won't go down on you unless you wax it all off. Or, like, I won't go down on you unless you've, like, showered right beforehand. You know, it's like, then we can get into trickier territory.

It's a slippery. Yeah, it's a slippery slope. But I think just like, kind of a. A mild courtesy trim. A courtesy trim is not. Is not unreasonable, like, gender aside. Because the reality is, is like, do you want to make the experience of oral sex as pleasant as possible for your partner? Like, why not? It's kind of like. I mean, I kind of look at it also. It's like, why do we get haircuts? Like, sometimes I don't want to spend the time to go to the barber and get that haircut. But also, like, you know, I want to look good for you. I want to look good for me, and so I go get a haircut.

I mean, that's a little different because I don't know if you. I don't know. It's a slightly different example. But, yeah, because they're not talking about the aesthetics of it. They're talking about this makes it easier for me to perform the blowjob.

Yeah.

But I think we're in agreement that this is a. It's a reasonable request as long as it's delivered respectfully.

I mean, I think a really reasonable way to deliver that request would be like, I love giving you blowjobs, and it's super sexy when your pubes are a bit more trim. And, like, I can really get to work, and I really love that. And, I mean, if you feel it can be a bit more challenging when there's a lot of pubes and they, you know, get in my mouth. It's, you know, like, it's not that nobody. Nobody enjoys getting hair in their mouth.

Yeah.

I feel like I end up with, like, your head hair in my mouth all the time, randomly. And it's just kind of like, okay, that's not the most.

Dog's hairs.

Yeah, the dog's hair is especially. It's not that pleasant.

But if I was like, babe, your dick looks huge when you trim your pubes. Will you trim them for me? Like, Fuck, yeah.

I'm trimming right now. Let's pause this recording. No, I think I. I think I trimmed. I trimmed recently. I don't need to trim right now.

Little scissors snipping in the background during the rest of the podcast.

Yeah, okay. I'm working.

Doing his masterpiece. He's shaping it like a little topiary. All right, let's move on.

Make it a little heart. Heart shape or something.

Next question. My boyfriend has female friends. They've been friends for a while before he and I met, and it's all platonic. I've met the female friends, and I do trust him. I asked him to just let me know if he's going to hang out with his female friends, whether it's one on one or in a group, when I won't be present. He thinks this means I don't trust him and I'm making rules because I wouldn't ask him to do this for his male friends. I say it's just a basic boundary. I'm not saying he can't see his female friends or that I have to always be there. I just would like to know when he's hanging with them because it makes me feel better just knowing.

I kind of want to sidestep this entire question and make a suggestion that I think is pretty reasonable that solves this problem once and for all.

Okay.

Sidestepping the entire thing. I think that. Well, God, you know what I just realized? She. The person says boyfriend. I don't know how serious they are, how long it's been. I'm thinking about us in our marriage. I think that a pretty reasonable request. It's not like. Not like a request just of you, but like a request that we should make of each other is if we are going to go hang out with someone, it would be common courtesy to let our partner know where we're going and who we're going with. Right.

Yeah.

So, I mean, that seems like a pretty normal, understandable ground rule for a relationship. Oh. Like if. If we're. If I'm going somewhere, like, I tell you where I'm going and I tell you who I'm going with, not because you don't trust me, but just for safety. For under. Like, for just like, so that we are aware of what we are doing, you know, because, like, we don't have anything to hide from each other. So that seems like a pretty easy rule to put in place that would then make it not seem like, oh, we have special rules for when I go out with my female friends because I can see how that doesn't feel good.

Yeah, I think the mistake that she made here was, like, only asking him to share about the female friends, because I can see his side of it where he's like, dude, I've had these friends since before I have been with you. Like, it's weird for you to ask me to only tell you when I'm hanging out with my girlfriends versus when I'm hanging out with my guy friends or, you know, people of any other gender. I think that she made a mistake with that. But I do think, yeah, if they backed up and she could say something like, hey, you know, you're right. It. It's not cool to have, like, different rules for different genders of friends. I do trust you. How about instead, we each just try to give each other the courtesy of when we're doing something, letting our partner know, you know, what we're doing and who we're doing it with. I do think it gets a little more complicated if this is, like, a new or not so serious relationship. If you're not living together. I think that's probably a big factor. If you're not living together, it is kind of weird to be, like, calling up your partner and like, hey, I'm gonna go to lunch with Fred. You know, like, that does seem weird. You and I obviously live together, so. Yeah, you're like, you know, if you're heading out the house, I'm like, hey, where are you going?

Yeah. And also, I will. I will be the first to admit that, you know, it's been a very long time since either of us worked outside of the house or had different jobs from each other. So I can see how this would be a very different situation if I put myself back in my shoes of, like, when we lived in San Francisco and I worked at a consulting firm in the financial district, where, you know, it'd be like, it would be totally normal for me to go meet up with a friend who worked in another building for lunch or something like that. And, like, you know, I wouldn't, like, necessarily be like, oh, hey, I'm gonna go meet up with Matt or whatever and get lunch, or I'm gonna meet up with Sarah or whatever it is. You know, it's just, like, in the middle of the day, so I can see both sides of this. But, yeah, I mean, I think that it's sort of a, you know, if you guys. It's better to just be like, hey, it's important for us to know generally, not, like, all the gory Details, not necessarily like turn on the, like find my friends on your phone and be tracking each other all the time. Unless that's what you want then. Yeah, I mean just like make more of an effort to share what you are generally doing with your partner and then it's just, that's just what you do out of common courtesy rather than it being a matter of do you trust near, don't you?

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All right, what about this one? To shower every day. We've had multiple conversations about it, but it never changes.

Okay, my answer to this is I think that this is an unreasonable request. This is one of the rare unreasonables that we got. I will give a caveat. Like if this person, if their partner like works at a job where they're getting very dirty, like if they're a.

Car mechanic or something.

Yeah. A garbage collector or something like that, then I understand. Like, like yeah, if you're coming home, clearly, or maybe like in a hospital or something like that, there's some sort of, you know, sanitary issues that you're worried about that person coming home. But aside from that, if this is just a general like I work in an office job kind of thing, I don't think it's reasonable to request that your partner shower every day?

Yeah, because generally there is no. Yeah. There is no sanitary or hygienic reason to be showering every day. I think bathing. And there's no like hard and fast rule of like, oh, you need to do it three times a week. The idea that, you know, many of us in the Western world have that, like, we must shower every day. There's really no actual research that backs that up. I mean, it's just a cultural thing.

Shows that it's actually bad for you. It's bad for your skin to get washed every day. It's really bad for your hair to get washed every single day. Like, it's not good for you. So we do have a whole episode about hygiene, like what to do if you are unhappy with your partner's hygiene habits. And we get into this in a lot of detail. So. So we'll link to that in the show notes if you want to check that out. Like, hygiene is a surprisingly complex and layered and nuanced issue. And yeah, I just. But the basic answer to this question is I don't think it's reasonable to want this every single day when it's something that, like, you know, like Xander was saying, there's no hygienic reason why somebody must shower every day. Okay, next one. I think anybody who has listened to this podcast for a couple of episodes is gonna get what our opinion is on this one. Just a couple, one sentence in, I think. But I'll try to read this without too much rage coming up for me. Is it too much to ask my husband to clean up after himself? Help me out. Babysit. We're gonna come back to that word, babysit, so I can have me time. Daughter is 10 months old. I've been a stay at home mom since while also working a full time job from home. I get groceries, do most house chores every day, sometimes have her all day because his job is so demanding. Then when he has time, he works out. Then showers will help with dinner and then it's bedtime. I never have time to myself. I don't shower every day. I'm exhausted. But if he doesn't perform at his job, he'll lose it. And he's the breadwinner of the family. He says that's how he shows his love, by working to pay the bill. I feel guilty asking for help because I know how stressful work is.

A lot to unpack here. I mean, the first thing, the first thing that I want to say is if he doesn't perform at his job as husband and dad, he'll lose it too.

Oh, mic drop with Xander Marin.

Yeah, but I mean in terms of other mic drops, babysit. The term babysit does not apply to the father of the child. That is not babysitting. That is being a dad, which is what you are also. I want to say the term stay at home mom. I mean, this is tricky because technically speaking, you are a mom and you are staying at home and you are also working another job. I think many people use the.

You have two full time jobs.

Yeah, you have two full time jobs. Many people use the term stay at home mom when they are. Their job is staying at home and being a mom, which is. Yeah. And taking care of the house, but not working another full time job on top of that.

Yeah. You have two full time jobs and.

Your partner has one.

And like, I don't want to downplay, like, it does sound like the husband has a stressful job. It does sound like there's probably some, you know, performance metrics that he has to hit. Like, that does sound stressful. I'm sorry, that's tough. But like, you're also doing a full time job as well, which I'm sure also has performance metrics that you need to hit and like, you know, a certain level that you need to perform at. So this question makes me really upset.

I can empathize with this guy to an extent because I previously have had jobs that felt like, you know, I needed to perform at a high level. There was a lot demanded of me in terms of hours and being available and stuff like that. And it's really easy to slide into this illusion of my job is the only important thing in the world. I am so important. I all. I get my validation from work. In order to succeed, I have to have this job. I have to work these hours, I have to be available, I have to this, I have to that. But I think, think that the reality is, unless part of his job description or people, his boss is literally telling him at work, the only way for you to keep this job is to go home, work out, not help with the kids, not really be a dad. That's not actually happening. Right? Like, no one is actually telling you that. And I had to really learn the hard way with work that like, if you don't put boundaries in place, if you only have your boundaries kind of in your head and you never verbalize them, like, you're going to get trampled all over. And if you, if you don't ever set any boundaries around, like, I have to do this as a father. This is more important than work or whatever it is, then no one will ever respect them. So I can, I can see part of myself in this person perhaps, and that he may be feeling like he can't say no anymore or he can't set any boundaries, but there's. It's never too late.

Yeah, I mean, again, like, I sympathize with. It sounds like he has a stressful job. It sounds like there's a lot going on. And I think that this is an example of how freaking hard parenting can be and how little support most parents have that you're trying to, like, you're trying to juggle so much stressful jobs, raising kids, having a, you know, some semblance of a relationship, some romance. Like, it's a lot. It's incredibly overwhelming. It's really unfair that parents do not have more support, do not have more resources. And at the same time, like, that's the reality of the situation that they're in and they need to be in this together. It can't just be like, oh, well, you happen to be the one who's working at home, so everything has to fall on you and I will just go outside and do my job at work. I mean, there has been research done on how many hours a stay at home parent works. I'm blanking on the exact number right now, but I'm pretty sure it was like 97 hours a week. Week. You know, so you're working 97 hours a week plus 40 hours a week, your regular job. Like, you're doing so much. You guys need to balance it more together. And I just, I hate this idea that if somebody is a stay at home parent, they're the default parent and they have to be in charge of everything. They have to do everything. They have to hold the mental load of everything. And then the partner who works outside the home gets to come in and like, like help and babysit, you know, wherever they want to and that they can get to shrug it off like, oh, no, I work too hard at my job. Like, I don't. I can't babysit. You know, it's like. So I think this couple needs to have a big sit down conversation. They need to figure out like, okay, what we are doing is unsustainable. This is not working. They're both exhausted. They're both stretched too thin. This is not working. So they need to have a conversation about what other resources might be available to us. Is it Hiring some sort of help, is it, you know, having family chip in? Is it, you know, getting creative? Like, I don't know what their financial situation is, I don't know what their support system is, but like, they need to get, they need to take a look at that and get creative and find ways to get some help, because this is just unsustainable.

Yeah. And I think another thing is, is really examining that belief of like he says that's how he shows his love by working to pay the bills. And I think that, I don't agree with that, but I do think that they need to have a real honest talk about what their perspectives are on relationships and parenthood and how that works. And it sounds like the person asking this question doesn't feel like, oh, I want to be in a relationship where my partner just shows their love by, by providing financial resources. Like they, they want something different from that. They want a different type of relationship, a different type of arrangement from that. And it sounds like the husband is basically saying, I want, you know, I want like a 60s housewife arrangement where I go out, I make the money, you stay home. I mean, the problem is that's not actually what's happening because, you know, the, the person asking the question is staying home, taking care of kids and working a full time job, like that is not a 60s housewife arrangement. So it's already, that's kind of already a problem. Like, yeah, okay, you know, tell her to quit the job and then he'll go out and make even more money like that. I don't know, it's just, it's.

Yeah, but I just, Yeah, I mean, let's wrap this up by saying to the person who wrote in this question, it is not at all in any way, shape or form unreasonable for you to want your partner to participate more. And I really want to encourage you to be careful about your word choices here. Like, you are not the default partner. Your husband doesn't get to come in and help and babysit. When the two of you decided to join your lives together, when you had a family of two, and then when you expanded to a family of three, it's like you are both participating in that life. And whatever it is that he is doing, you know, whether he washes the dishes or does laundry like that, that's him taking care of his responsibilities of his adult life. The family that he agreed to be a part of, that is not him helping out. So really be careful with your language so that you can understand, like, you both need to participate and you've got to figure out a way to balance and divide up the chores, the responsibilities, the mental load in a way that feels good and, you know, right for your relationship. We'll also link to our mental load workbook in the show notes because this is, this is exactly what we do in that workbook. So you guys have to divide it up and you really need to realize that it's not help. That's him being an adult.

All right, on that note, moving on. I've been on hormonal birth control for 13 years. We're done having kids. I want him to get a vasectomy, but he refuses.

Okay, I'm just gonna stay fired up for this one too. Not unreasonable. The husband needs to get a vasect vasectomy. So I think, or, or he, you.

Know, he could start using condoms or he could stop having sex, you know, penetrative sex with her.

Yeah, I'm sure that's gonna be a really viable option.

Well, yeah, I mean, I think when you put it in that context and.

It'S like, all right, get the vasectomy.

Or you know, get a physectomy for 13 years to make it even and then reverse it.

Oh, God. Okay, so this is the thing, like, it's really unfair and frustrating that pregnancy prevention gets put on women and on vulva owners shoulders. Like it's a shared responsibility. Just like what we're talking about in the last question. Because, you know, I'm the one who could get pregnant in my body. That doesn't mean that it's only my responsibility to prevent it and that you get to just do whatever you want to do. And I can also say, like, as somebody who was on hormonal birth control for like almost a decade, that shit is insane. Like, it's legitimately insane. The side effects of hormonal birth control are wild. If we were giving hormonal birth control to men for pregnancy prevention would not exist.

We wouldn't, it wouldn't get approved by the fda.

Nobody would put up with the side effects of hormonal birth control. Absolutely not. Nobody would be on it. So like, being on hormonal birth control is a huge sacrifice that you're making birth control. I mean, I talk to your doctor about it.

There are non hormonal options.

Yeah. So anyways, you know, you've taken on that burden for 13 years. It's a really big burden. It's affected so much of your body, your mental health, everything, like finances. It's a lot. So your husband. Yeah. Needs to take A freaking turn. And if you guys are done having kids, yeah, you can give them that option. You can use condoms or you can get a vascular vasectomy. The other thing about vasectomies is the procedure is so simple these days. It's like there's hardly any downtime, there's hardly any pain. There are no side effects to it. It's extremely safe. It's like, it's just not a big deal. Yeah, you gotta step up and take one for the team.

Man up. Man up, buddy.

Man up and get the snip, snap.

Sack up, stack up. I am, I am 100% getting a facility to me once your IUD runs out.

Yeah, I'm. Yeah, you are.

I mean I, I'd do it tomorrow if you wanted to get it removed. Tomorrow.

Do the old snip snap.

Yeah, maybe we, we've talked about this. We can.

Yeah, no, we have. I have the non hormonal iud. By the way. Birth control is very, very unique. So please talk to your doctor, do your own research, figure out the, the best things for you. But yeah, we're, we're gonna be splitting up that load for sure.

I'm gonna be snipping and snapping baby.

Okay. My fiance's workout routine, stretch, work out and shower takes two hours and he usually works till at least 5:30 and works out after he gets home. It makes it impossible to eat dinner together unless it's like 8:30pm but if I express frustration, he feels like I'm trying to impede on his self care as he knows a workout routine is best for his mental health. Health. I agree. It just makes dinner or any evening time hard to prioritize. I feel like an hour would be much more reasonable on some days. But maybe I'm being unreasonable as I admittedly don't have as much of a workout routine that I stick to.

This is an interesting one.

I mean this one's a little more nuanced than the last.

This one's a little more nuanced. But I mean it does seem a little unreasonable. A two hour workout routine that you start at at least 5:30 when you are in a serious relationship, you're engaged after being out at work all day. That's tough. I mean it's not very like I.

Can see both sides because you know, workouts are really amazing for mental health. And if he's specifically saying like this is a big part of my mental health and my self care, like I don't think it's reasonable to ask somebody not to Work out?

Yeah, no, absolutely not.

But I do, I do think that the length of the workout maybe is a little excessive. Like two hours a day every day. That's, that's quite a bit of time.

Yeah, I mean, I don't know if there's any research that shows that that type of workout every day is the most beneficial. In fact, there's probably a lot of research that shows that workouts of varying lengths are probably better for you. Also. Also, they don't say anything in here about like, like, can he work out in the morning sometimes? Or like, sure, yeah, you know, maybe not seven days a week. I don't think it's actually really that great for you to do the same workout seven days a week in a row. Like, you gotta have some rest days.

You know, this person isn't saying, I want him to not work out, you know, or like take days off or anything like that. Like, they're just saying some days. Could you do an hour instead of two hours so then he gets home at like, like maybe they can have dinner at 7:30. Like that feels like a very reasonable request to me.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

I mean, like a bit shorter.

Yeah. I mean, I think at the end of the day if you are in a relationship with someone, if you're in a serious relationship with someone, there's a given a take. And like, I would love to go surfing every day. I don't go surfing every day because the waves aren't always good every day and some days the waves are good and I decide not to go surfing because of, of what else is going on around the house. I don't want to have to wake up Vanessa super early because we have something going on in the morning where it's going to be really stressful. The timing would be super, super tight or perhaps problematic if I am, you know, getting home or, you know, I sometimes make the decision, hey, I think it would be better for both of us if I just don't go tomorrow. And you know, that's, that's life in a relationship is that you don't always do everything that you would do if you were single 100% of the time.

Yeah, yeah. So I would say get creative here. Like, could he work out in the morning or maybe could they have dinner? He comes home, they have dinner and then he goes to work out.

Yeah.

You know, and yeah, I think maybe a couple days a week he does an hour long workout instead of the two hour long workout. Like come home and take a shower with your fiance, bro.

Yeah. Absolutely. Or, you know, just talk about, like, are there a couple days of the, like two days of the week or something where we can have an evening together? Because it sounds like they're just not really getting any evening time together ever, and that sucks.

Yeah. Yeah. So I think it's reasonable to try to make some, get a little bit flexible, get a bit creative, try to find some other ways. Again, we're not saying to tell your partner don't work out, especially if it's a really integral part of his mental health, but I think that he could be a bit more flexible and it might help if you start with, like, I totally respect that you work out. I respect how much of an impact it makes on your mental health, and I want you to have that. I also want to hang out with you too. So I want to see if we can find some other ways to make this work.

I have another idea. The person asking this question said that they don't have much of a workout routine that they stick to. Is, is there an opportunity for you guys to start doing some type of physical activity together? Not necessarily. Like, like gym workout. It could be that. I know that it can't. You know that there are a ton of different things. Yeah, that can get tricky. But yeah, can you guys go rock climbing, go do something, you know, can you come up with some new activity that you guys are going to do together that is also going to be physical? It's going to be good for both of your mental health, and that's something that you do a couple days a week or even if it's just one day a week, because it sounds like this person is really stuck in their routine and maybe getting a lot of comfort from that routine. If you can find a way to kind of encourage breaking up that routine in a way where you also end up getting what you are looking for out of this, which is just some intimacy, some, some time together. That could be a really good option that might not be seen as a, like, oh, you're just trying to take me away from my mental health routine.

Yeah.

All right, here's another one. Kind of, kind of similar, but a little more extreme perhaps. It's hard. I, I, I'm just reading. I'm at a bit of a loss. When he plays sports, he stays out to 3 or 4am Two to three times a week. We have two Littles at home.

No, no, no, bro, you are not allowed to do this.

Yeah, we playing sports. I'm putting that in quote, like, what, what the hell are you Doing. You're not. You're not. Well, you're not playing. You're. You're playing sports, perhaps, and then going out to party, right? Like. Like. Well, I guess, like, let's get real about what is actually happening.

Okay, yeah, I mean, we're laughing at this one, but this is not an unreasonable request. Actually, I'm reading this, there isn't even a request in here, but let's say it is unreasonable to think that with two little kids at home two to three times a week, you can be staying out till 3 or 4am no.

The only scenario that I could possibly think that this becomes reasonable in is if the person asking the question also really wants to go out two to three times a week and stay out till 3 to 4am like, and that. That's some integral part of their social life or their. Their way of living, and they want that too. Then I could see it's just two night owls. Yeah, you're two night owls and you need time apart. You need to take turns and do your thing. Yeah, I'm all for this one, but otherwise. Not docky.

No, I mean, okay, maybe if he's like a professional athlete and it's his job and he's like running drills or something at 4:00am okay, maybe. But I just can't see any scenario where this would be. I can't even imagine being this dude thinking, like, yeah, I have two little babies at home, but I'm gonna be out till 4am three times a week.

Oh, I mean, I thought of one other scenario that this is reasonable in, and that is the scenario where he leaves the house at 2am to go play sports for one to two hours and then comes home, you know, because he is at home taking. Taking care of the little kids. So if the person asking this question just totally twisted it and left out like the key part of the story, like, oh, he's the best dad. He's always there. He works his ass off during the day, he takes care of the kids, he does more work. And then I go to sleep and then he goes. He sneaks out to get a little exercise in from 2 to 3am two to three times a week. Then I'd be like, oh, maybe he needs a little help here. But no.

No. This one's a no. Okay. And our last one, I laughed so hard because this one was. All that it was, was two words, all caps. Stop farting. Is it unreasonable to ask your partner to stop farting? I have an answer here.

It's unreasonable within certain. Within Reason within reason.

Here's how I would describe it. I think it is unreasonable to ask your partner to stop farting because that is a body reflex. We don't have control over it. Farting is normal and natural.

It's not a reflex. It's a bodily function. It's like, a necessary function.

Yes, yes, we do have to fart sometimes. But what I think that you can do is ask your partner to make an effort to not do it in front of you. So ask them to, you know, run into the bathroom, run into another room, not be, like, dropping bombs on you when you guys are hanging out.

Yeah, I mean, it's. We don't have any context, unfortunately. Like, is. Is it like. Is it like, I just want to let her rip? Because that's who I am.

Farting is my personality trait.

Yeah. Just let me be me. I just want to let him rip. Feels so good, baby. I mean, it's my version of anal play.

What? Playing with Uranus? Farting. I mean, sure. Okay.

Yeah.

No, I mean, I laughed a lot because this is definitely something that's come up in our relationship. You can be. You're. You can be a farter sometimes.

I have not been farting that much recently.

Got that. That diet in check, that healthy diet.

It's been. Yeah, it's been a lot better, honestly.

You were just walking.

I was gonna say we were on.

A walk, and you were like, get in front of me because you let it loose. When I was right behind you. You just, like, let it rip. So, yes, like, we've had this conversation before where I'm like, please just make a little bit of effort. Like, it's. You know, sometimes they're really smelly, and the noise is just kind of gross, and if it's, like, in a moment that it's maybe feeling kind of sensitive or emotional. Like, there's a time and a place. So I have had to ask you, like, please just, like, go to another room or, like, close the door or something. I don't think it takes that much of an effort. There are times where it just slips out. And, like, sometimes it catches you off guard.

Oh, yeah. Or sometimes you think it's gonna be. You know, you're making every effort for it to be a silent one, and then it just doesn't happen that way.

So I. I understand that, like, we don't have complete 100% control. Sometimes you just. Just. You can't make it into the bathroom. I understand that. But I think as long as there is an effort being made to just be a little courteous about it. But I also will say this is very different in every relationship. Like, we've talked about farting on Instagram before, and people have been like, my partner and I love farting in front of each other. Like, it. It actually builds intimacy between the two of us. So if you both love farting and you're cool with it, fart.

Yeah, let her rip out.

But if there's one partner who. Who does not like farting, then have a little bit of courtesy. It's not that hard.

Yeah. I mean, it's kind of like the chewing with your mouth open one where it's like, if you're both like, yeah, chomp away, then great, do it. But, yeah, it's like one of those ones where it's like, okay, if this bothers someone, there's an amount of reasonableness.

Yes.

Behind the request to at least make an effort to. To cut down on it. You can't stop doing it. But, yeah. I will say one rule that we have which is. Is nice, is that I am allowed. I'm allowed to fart if I'm in a bathroom, and if you happen to.

Be in the bathroom, she.

She made that. I don't know. Actually, it boggles my mind as to why you made that rule, because it is to your own detriment so many times. But I'll give her credit. She is so respectful of the rule, she'll be like, oh, oh, wait. Oh, we're in the bath. Fair enough. I think it's. I just think it's hilarious that every single time, like, I can see you being like, God damn it, why did I make this rule? But I got to respect it. You got it. You got to have one safe space to fart in.

I could rescind it if I want to, but I don't know.

You can't now. You can't now.

All rules can be rescinded and renegotiated. But I don't know, it does seem like the bathroom to me. Seems like that's a safe place for it. Even if I happen to be in there sometimes.

Yeah. I mean, it is.

I can run out.

It's fair. Because, you know, I think her point is, in an ideal world, it would be great if you could run to the bathroom when you need to fart. You know, sometimes you can't run. Running might. No, I think that we have different. Vanessa and I definitely have different experiences of, like, what it is like to fart. Oh.

I feel like I have a thousand percent More control over my farts than you do.

Yeah, I don't.

I don't. That's a bad way of saying it. I feel like I make a thousand percent more effort to control my farts than you do. I feel like you make a very minimal effort to control your farts. You're like, oh, it slipped out. It slipped out. Like, you have so many ones that just slip out. Like, every day, farts slip out. And for me, a fart slipping out is, like, that's a once a week kind of occurrence. Like, I've got a lot of control over that butthole. Things are not slipping out of there.

I don't know.

So you can make a little bit more even you are better about, like, leaving the room and, you know, apologizing when they do slip out. But I think you could control them better.

Yeah. I mean, who knows? We'll see when, you know, when the technology comes out for us to finally switch bodies. You know, I do like, a. Like a Face off situation.

Oh, you want me to see what it's like to live with your butthole?

Yeah, I just want you to see how hard it is to be a man.

Life is Xander's butthole.

I know. It's really. Life is really hard for me, and, you know, if you could only be in my head, you would understand.

All right, well, that wraps up our thoughts on whether or not it's unreasonable. We want to know, though, do you agree with us? Do you completely disagree? Like, come on over to Instagram, Vanessa Marin Therapy. Let us know your opinions on some of these scenarios, and we will link a couple of things in the description in the show notes for you, the hygiene episode that we mentioned and that mental load workbook.

All right, well, that's it for today's episode of Pillow Talks. Thank you so much for listening. Join us again next week when we give a little tough love about your sex drive.

Sam.