Episode 81: Ho Ho Help! How To Survive Holiday Stress

Yeah, I think a lot of us just have this very romanticized idea in our heads of what the holidays should look like. And when things don't go exactly to plan, it can feel really devastating. I think there's. There's something about this time of year that can feel more emotional and more vulnerable than any other time of the year. It's just a tricky time to navigate. Hello and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Xander Marin. I'm ascending Therapist with over 20 years.

Of experience and I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.

Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. Today we are talking about the holidays. A big thank you to Green Chef for sponsoring our podcast. Green Chef is the number one meal kit for eating well with dinners that work for you and not the other way around. Go to greenchef.com pillow599 and use code PILLOW599 to get 5.99 per meal on your first box and your first box ships free. Just a few weeks ago, I had you open up an episode with one of the most iconic Mariah Carey songs of all time. Emotions. But I think that we have to open up this episode with the most iconic Mariah Carey song of all time.

I don't want a lot for Christmas. But there's just one little thing. I don't need a lot for Christmas. I don't remember all the words. I don't remember all the words.

Words. Can you just do. I thought you were just going to do the chorus. Can you do the chorus, one chorus or just the All I want for Christmas. Is you.

Wow, I lost the plot there.

Start so high.

Well, it's Mariah Carey. I mean, you got it.

She goes in the lower register and then you build up to the Is. Yeah.

Wow.

Kind of belt.

I'm. I mean, I'm at the. As we're recording this, I'm like looking in the audio recording software and like it shows the waveform as it's coming in and just blow. I do want to say. No, we are not clipping. I'm nearly certain we are. We are really good audio wise, but it's like significantly taller in the waveform than when we're just talking. So. Yeah. Our editor Is gonna have a fun time with that one, but, you know, I think the signal's clean.

Great. Do you want to try it one more time? Start. Start lower. I don't.

Well, I don't know where to start.

Just do the. All I want for Christmas is you.

All I want for Christmas is you.

Now do the. You baby. You baby.

How's that?

That was. That was a lot better. It was a breathier, Sensual.

Great. I mean, what I was going to say is that, like, I'm not listening to that song very often outside of the holidays. I will say I did hear it and dance to it quite excessively. A couple months ago, our friends got married and decided to ironically choose that song as their first dance song.

It was great. That was great wedding song, I got to say. Everybody was singing along, we went nuts. I mean, it's quite, very random.

It's quite the shock when it's the middle of August and you're at a wedding and that song comes on.

All right, so let's get into the episode. Today we're talking all about the holidays, which can obviously be as beautiful and magical as Xander's sake. Sweet singing.

Yeah, I mean, that's the goal, right? That. That's the goal that the holidays are as magical as my singing. Take that however you want it to mean.

But the holidays can also be a complete and utter pain in the ass.

Kind of like my singing.

Yes, kind of like you're.

I'm saying my singing is a catch all. Like, it can be wonderful. It can be exuberant, and you can be like, you know, it's the thought that counts. He's really going for it. Like, that's what the holidays are. Or it can be like, I can't fucking stand this guy singing. It's horrible. Like, hopefully art has auto tuned me or something, made me sound a little better. I sounded horrible. And you know, just be like, this is a total disaster. Like the holidays.

If somebody doesn't like your singing, they're probably just not gonna like our podcast because we. We really rely on your singing as a bit of a crutch, Especially in the openers of a lot of our episodes.

Yeah, you know, like, I actually, I noticed. I notice a lot of people like, on YouTube videos will put, like funny little things in parentheses or brackets. Like if. If it includes that in the episodes, like for our podcast, maybe we should start putting like brackets like singing singing or no singing.

We've been talking about recording the podcast episodes from YouTube. We need to get our office, like, set up. We don't really have any furniture in here yet, but I think that that'll be a really nice addition for people to get to see you singing on top of hearing you singing, because you make some great faces. It's very entertaining.

I'm sure I do. It's a struggle.

Okay. So the holidays. You know, we all have these grand ideas in our heads of what we want the holidays to look like, what they're capable of looking like. And yet I think we've all had at least one experience, if not many, of things just completely going off the rails between stress, arguments, family drama, politics, traditions, boundaries get crushed, expectations get dashed. Like, it's. It can be a nightmare. I mean, I'll say for myself, like, I. I can definitely think about a number of holiday seasons that I cried. A lot of them.

I was gonna say many, many times. Like, cried many times.

Yeah. No, and many holidays where I've cried. I had one of the worst fights I've ever had with my brother over the holidays.

I'm glad you testified. I was about to be like, not with me.

Not with you.

Not with me. I don't think we've ever really gotten into a bad.

We haven't. Yeah. We've had, like, a lot of. Yeah. There's just stuff that's come up with family expectations, all kinds of stuff. But, yeah, I mean, they can be a very difficult time for so many of us. So this week, we want to talk about how to navigate the holidays in an intentional way. And we've got some great tips and some great stories for you.

But first, we are going to very intentionally get into our look at you transitioning. Our review of the week. You know, you gave me some feedback. Took it. I'm being intentional. I'm taking action.

There we go.

Here we go.

What more can you hope for?

You might never need to remind me again. Sweet and sexy.

Oh, I like it already.

Listening to Vanessa and Xander talk is like sipping on sweet and spicy Mexican hot cocoa while reading your favorite sexy novel with little intentional educational tidbits thrown in. X and V are easy on the ears, make me laugh, and even make me question and reflect on everything in all the right ways. They are one of the very best ways to actually enjoy doing your weekly chores. This review is all over the place.

I love it.

Sexy novels, Mexican hot cocoa, doing the chores. I love the easygoing nature in which vnx storytell give practical tips and provide listeners valuable relationship advice. Overall, Pillow Talks is an easy and pleasurable weekly pod. Thanks for all you do you. Two big heart emoji, Triple heart emoji. Is that heart beating?

I don't know what that is. Yeah, that's like a triple heart.

I'm saying it's heart beating.

I like it.

Yeah.

Oh, my gosh. What a sweet and spicy. Wait, Sexy. Sweet and sexy review.

It was sweet, spicy, and sexy. I mean, that was delightful. It hit all the. It, you know, hit all the bases.

Thank you so much for leaving this wonderful review. We really appreciate hearing your words and reviews go so far in helping the podcast grow. When people are looking for a new podcast to listen to and they find one that has a lot of, you know, great ratings, great reviews, of course they're gonna be more interested in listening to that. And when you give reviews, it also makes Apple show our podcast to more people. So it's not just like a little ego stroke right at the top of the episode for us. It genuinely helps the podcast. So we would be so grateful if we've ever made you laugh, if we've ever given you a tip that we.

If we've ever made you cr. Sure.

If we've ever done something to you, we would really appreciate you taking a couple seconds to leave a review. On Apple Podcasts, it does not have to be creative or over the top. It could literally be like, I love this podcast. You should listen. And we do this weekly giveaway every single week. If you are featured as the review of the week, and once you leave that review, you are entered into this contest for life. You're just like, every week you are entered. So if you're picked as the winner, you can come over to Instagram at Vanessa and Z and send us a question, and we will give you our best advice. Coaching feedback, a little mini personalized coaching session sent straight back into your inbox as our way of saying thank you for taking the time. So let's get into it. So we think that the main thing that comes up around the holidays is mismatched expectations. Actually, I think you could say any sort of conflict really boils down to mismatch expectations. And the holidays are a time where expectations really run wild. You know, I think we all have these ideas in our heads of what the perfect holiday season is. When we see it in movies and people, you know, sharing on social like.

Or just filtered through our own memory, like, oftentimes faulty memory of, like, this is what I remember from when I was 8 years old. And often what we remember from when we were eight years old. It's quite different from what really may have happened.

Yeah. I think a lot of us just have this very romanticized idea in our heads of what the holidays should look like. And when things don't go exactly to plan, it can feel really devastating. I think there's something about this time of year that can feel more emotional and more vulnerable than any other time of the year. It's just a tricky time to navigate. So for this episode, we decided to focus on expectations, and we wanted to break it down into a couple of different categories. So we're gonna get right into it, like, right off the top here and share with you some examples of ways that mismatch expectations. Like within yourself, you and your partner, you and your families, you and your bank account. Yes. How they can lead to tension and stress. So we're going to just share a ton of examples here. We'll get back to some stories a little bit later in the episode, but we wanted to start with these examples just to give you this sense of knowing that you're not alone. If the holidays feel stressful to you, if you even hate the holidays, if you're feeling all this nervous anticipation about them this year. Like, we just don't want you to feel alone in that, because I think this is a pretty universal experience. So we came up with five categories. Money, time, family, traditions, and sex and intimacy. So there's obviously going to be overlap between a lot of those, but we thought that those categories made the most sense, so we turned over to Instagram and we asked for each category. Like, tell us an example of how this has come up for you or something that you're struggling with this year. So here are the ones that came up. Just a handful of them. I mean, we got hundreds of responses. Probably thousands people were very eager. Yeah, definitely thousands people were very eager to talk about the holidays. So here were some of the examples of things that came up around money. My partner seems surprised that presents cost money every year.

Wait, they cost money?

Presents cost money? I mean, not all of them, but that's true. Yes. I think most people spend more money in December than any other time of year.

Oh, yeah.

My partner makes significantly more than me. We have separate finances. They can afford much nicer gifts for me than I can for them. And my partner proposes smaller budgets for my family and a higher budget for theirs.

Sounds pretty fair. That was sargassum, by the way, in case you're wondering.

We'll get into tips later in the episode. We've got some, like, more specific stories that we're going to give you our hot Takes and advice on. But I. If you proposed just spending less money on my family than on yours, I. That. That would be a discussion between the two of us, for sure.

I mean. Yeah, that. That one's tricky because I think there's different ways to look at it. Like, let. You know, let's say that. Let's just, like, make it really extreme. But, like, let's say, you know, on one side of the family, there's, like, 20 people to get gifts for, and on the other side, there's two people to get gifts for. Like, one could argue, well, we got to spend the same amount of money on each side of the family versus, like, spending the same amount of money on each person. If you spend the same amount of money on each person, then the family of 20 people in it gets, you know, just say it's like, 20 times 10 bucks. It's like $200 versus the other family getting $40. So there's. There's arguments for both ways, I think, like, that. That's the reality. That's the unfortunate thing about money, is there's different ways to conceptualize how to spend it.

Yeah. So what we've always done is we spend the same amount of money on each person. So our families are pretty.

Yeah. They're close. We just have, like. Yeah. I mean, like, Vanessa has two siblings, and I have one sibling. But, you know, I can imagine if you were, you know, a very extreme example where there's, like, a hundred people that get gifts or on one side, and two that would get. That would get tricky. And that. That would be. You know, it wouldn't be.

So I would never say we should spend 500 on my family and 500 on your family. Like, I think doing the same amount per person. Because I don't. I don't know. Because that's immediately what my brain leapt to when I read this one. Like, I wanted.

You're like, it's where my brain leps.

To leapt. I said lept.

Okay.

My brain lept.

All right.

All right. Is, you know, if you were to say to me, I want to spend 500 on my mom and 100 on your mom, like, that would be very weird to me. But I think the idea. So I don't ever think about it as, like. Like, we should spend exactly $1,000 on my family and exactly 1,000 on your family. I go to individual people.

Yeah, I. I agree. I agree.

We can get back into this. I. This is. This is the holidays. Like, it's so easy to. To start getting wrapped Up. It's hard not to dissect these things right now.

Yeah, but. But here's the thing. I know I'm not supposed to dissect it, but, I mean, you know, in this case, it's like, I'm. I'm curious if the person who sent us that comment, like, have they actually had this conversation with their partner of, like, how are you actually thinking about it? Because it could be just one of these things where it's like, you know, one person thinks like, oh, we. We should just have the same budget for each family. And the other person is like, no, I feel like we do have the same budget for each family, and there's more people in one family, so we spend more on them. And it's like, it's just like, oh, we are misunderstood. Like, we are missing each other from the very budget. Yeah, from, like, the very beginning. Some really simplistic things. I mean, of course we're always going to say, talk about it. Talking. Talking about whatever is going on is pretty much always the right thing to do. But, you know, but this is where expectations come in. You have a. You have a. You have an idea.

My expectation is, I don't want to talk about it.

But yeah, I mean, like, you. You have a assumption of what a word or a concept is, and then you create an expectation of, oh, well, of course we should spend the same amount. Or, of course we should spend the same amount on each person, or, of course we should spend the same amount for each family. And the other person just has a different idea of what that is, and boom, mismatch. And you know that that's the way it goes.

Yep.

So the next category is Time. I don't have a family, but my partner and I have kids together. He wants to spend Christmas with his family. I want to take a vacation with our kids and focus on our immediate family.

I think that's one of the most common themes that comes up in these stories is, like, this feeling of how do we be in all the places at the same time? Like, you want to be able to clone yourself.

Yeah. How do we be in all the families in all the places and not disappointing anybody. All right, next one is women are all cooking and cleaning men, sitting around, eating, drinking, watching sports.

This is actually what my holidays looked like as a child when we spent them with my extended family. And I did not like it from a very young age. I picked up on this sucks.

I mean, I definitely. I remember seeing this, like, early on in our. I think things have changed in Your family slowly over the years. But, like, when I first. When we first started dating, my first couple holidays with you, it was somewhat more like that. Definitely. Yeah. In my family. My family, no one really watches sports except my uncle. And now. And now I do. But, yeah, it's funny because, yeah, there's always, like. There's always football on. On Thanksgiving, and I have zero memories of ever watching football on Thanksgiving. I didn't realize until college, like, that Thanksgiving is like an NFL day. It's like a mass. You know, there's football all day long. It's like, probably one of the, like, biggest days for ratings for football. I had no idea until I went to college and was like, oh, there's football. Who knew? And I think there's football on, like, Christmas Eve, too, which is kind of messed up. I think there's, like. I think there's a game. All right. My partner wants me to plan everything about the holiday, but also criticize me while I'm doing it.

Oh, that is a tough one. That is definitely a mental load issue. So I would make your partner listen to episode four. I think it is our mental load one. It's a. That's a very important thing for them to understand because this is not a fair situation at all.

All right. And then finally, we visit four houses in 36 hours. It's a nightmare, and I cry about it a lot.

Oh, that sounds so.

That sounds tough. That definitely sounds tough. How many hours is that per house? What we don't know is, like, how far away. Yeah, how far away? I mean, it's all. It's kind of like one of those math problems. Like, okay, so you start driving 40 miles an hour from here, and then how long will it take? When will you intersect with.

That sounds really tough. Next category is family. I expect sick people to stay home. Partner's family goes to holidays no matter what. Then my kids get sick, and we have to miss work. Oh, I'm with you on this one. Sick people should not be at the holidays. I'm sorry.

Yeah. This is. I mean, it's just so toxic. Like, people are always sick around the holidays. It's how it always happens. It's.

I missed a recent holiday because I was sick, and it was devastating, but I was like, I'm not gonna go and get everybody else sick. That's not fair.

Oh, yeah, no, definitely. I mean, I've seen people sick around the holidays. It just. Yeah.

I want to spend all day with my family. Partner would rather just spend a few hours or one meal My partner's family schedules back to back to back weekends of family stuff. Partner never says no, and we have no time for my family. And our last one partner hates the feeling of hustling between obligations. But I think we should prioritize seeing all families.

All right, traditions. We don't agree on Santa Claus and what to tell the kids. Do not agree on the concept. What are we talking?

Still believes in Santa Claus.

No, he won't listen when I tell him it's a fake.

No, they're saying they don't agree on whether to tell the kids that he's real or not. All right, this is a big parenting debate.

No, no, I know.

Some people are like, we shouldn't lie to your kids. And other people are like, well, you know, it's this whole tradition and yada yad. So, no, I don't think it's, like, a grown adult thing.

We don't agree on whether Santa Claus is a thing or not.

An adult. I leave the cookies out for him.

He's stuck in my chimney. I swear he's in there.

Oh, God.

Okay, continue trying to combine different holiday traditions from different religions. So tough to combine Christmas and Hanukkah.

So I spend every year. My dad is Jewish, my mom is Mexican and has a Catholic family, and I spend every year growing up and still to this day celebrating both Christmas and Hanukkah. I think it's delightful to have both.

I mean, have you ever watched the OC And Chrismica?

We always did. Like, Hanukkah was a smaller thing. We just got tiny little gifts. Not every single time. But I. I thought it was so cool to get to do both. And my friends were always jealous of, like, you get both.

Well, you. You really got to do both. See, I actually. I actually have the exact same situation in my family. My. My dad's side of the family is Jewish, and my mom's side is not particularly religious, but if anything, like, Catholic. So I actually have the exact same thing. Like, my family sort of religious and ethnic background is quite similar, but, yeah, we would. Yeah, Jewish dad. I have a Latina mom, and, yeah, we would do Hanukkah, and I would get. I would get, like, big presents for Hanukkah, and then Christmas, I would get, like, a gift or two or, like, stocking stuffers. So I think there was, like, one or two years where I got, like, a bunch of Christmas gifts, and it was like, oh, my God, it's the best of both worlds. But then after that, it would be like, the Majority, you know, the big guns would come out for Hanukkah, and then, you know, and then Christmas would be, you know, just like a couple things.

I mean, they're both cool holidays.

Yeah. So, yeah, that's. That's why I love joining your family. Because I had never had the experience of just having this big, epic Christmas that was really fun to get to be a part of. All right. And then finally, under traditions, my partner has severe guilt with giving and receiving. So we just end up buying something for the house every year. I wish we could give each other gifts.

Gifts. And our final category was sex and intimacy. Someone sent in. There's an expectation of sex on Christmas Eve, even when it's busy and exhausting with the kids. Someone else said, we both want more sex during the holidays, but we're always too full to do it.

Oh, we have a simple solution for that.

First, it's our favorite rule. Always make sure to have sex before you have some, like, big holiday meal or party or night out. You're gonna be way too full and, you know, potentially tips or drunk, bloated, gassy, all that stuff. Like, it's just way too hard to have sex after that. So we have a YouTube video about fuck first, including some tips for how parents can do it. People with different schedules. So go listen to that. And our last one partner wants to only give me sex related gifts. I hate it and tell them, but they still do it. Only sex related gifts. I'd be kind of upset too.

Yeah, I would do.

I'm just curious. Maybe Valentine's Day, but not Christmas.

Want to know? Like what? Like, give me the list of all the things that your partner has gotten you. Like, wouldn't you start to exhaust the possibilities soon? Or is it just like always? Other vibrator, always lingerie. I just, I feel like you would get stale pretty quickly, which is probably why this person doesn't like it. But I'm just curious, like, is this person just finding, like, really epic, like, an epic variety of sex related gifts?

I don't know.

Good for them.

Good for them. But yeah, no, let's.

Good for them. I'm sorry, your partner's not into it, so maybe not the best gift to give.

So let's run through these categories personally and just see, like, you know, what has come up for us. I mean, we definitely have had conflicts around money. Like, you know, in my family, we talk a lot about, like, what should the budget be? People have different finances, and it can be really awkward sometimes of like, you know, do we set a certain budget that everyone can do, or do you allow people to pay for the gifts that they feel comfortable paying for? So I. I can totally empathize with the awkwardness of that. I feel like every year my family is kind of trying to figure out a new way of approaching it.

You know, what I will say about money, though, is that if I think back early on in our relationship, I definitely related with this person that said that my partner seems surprised that presents cost money every year. Like, when I was taking, you know, full responsibility for the financial mental load of our, you know, of our new family, Vanessa and me together, and I guess we probably had Winston then, too, but, you know, I took that role on without ever asking or without us ever talking about it. And I definitely would have a lot of stress going into the holidays. It would be like, okay, well, it feels like, you know, we have everything under control with, like, you know, our rent, our expenses, blah, blah, blah, throughout the year. And then the holidays come in and it's like, oh, like, here comes those extra expenses is. And it just. It felt really stressful until we started to share that load or at least talk about. Talk about it and kind of prioritize, like, you know, how do we want to be spending our money? Because when I held it all to myself, then it just. I just thought about, oh, well, like, what are my own expectations about us saving money or about how much money we're spending and never really checking it with you? And so I just kind of viewed everything through, like, oh, God. Well, like, you know, before, during the holidays, I just got, like, a couple, you know, a couple family members presents, and that was it. And now there's two families, and your family's way bigger, and we got all these gifts to get, and, like, oh, it's too much.

That's a really good point that you bring up, because I think it's very easy to feel like your partner is being a scrooge or a Grinch when the reality might actually be that they're holding the mental load of the finances and feeling a lot of stress or anxiety and maybe even a lot of internal conflict of, like, I want my partner to get to have this epic holiday experience. And yet I feel like I'm holding all the burden, all the responsibility of making sure we're taking care of ourselves financially and making smart financial decisions.

Yeah. I mean, because I would be like, oh, well, like, Vanessa's always saying how, like, she wants us to be saving money and blah, blah, blah. And now the holidays come and now, all of a sudden, she doesn't want to save money. Like, which is it? Like, what am I. Like, how am I supposed to. I can't do everything at once.

Yeah.

And when you hold that to yourself, it sucks.

Yeah. So I think the biggest thing that's come up for us around the holidays is kind of this combination of, like, three of the categories, like time, family, and traditions. So when we became serious and started spending the holidays together, it was really tricky for us because, like you mentioned earlier, Christmas has never been a big thing in your family. It was kind of a casual, small celebration.

Yeah. Or, I mean, what I will say is that from my perspective. From my perspective, Christmas never seemed like.

A big thing, but in my family, Christmas is epic. Yeah. You know, my grandma grew up in Mexico, very poor, and she always had this dream for herself of, like, I'm gonna make it to America and make Christmas a really special thing for my family. Like, she. They didn't celebrate it. They didn't have the money to do anything. So since I was a little kid, you know, my grandma made it to America, and she made that, you know, money to be able to, like, create this holiday. And she go. Goes all out.

Like, your grandma goes all out throughout the year. Like, starting in, like, June, Vanessa's grandma is like, like, at Macy's for all the sales, buying. Like, it's. It's kind of. It's kind of funny because sometimes you get something from her, and it's like, if it's the wrong size, and you go to, like, exchange it, they're like, oh, this was bought on final sale for $5, like, back in August. And you're like, what? Like, how is that even possible?

So, yeah, she goes all out. Decorations everywhere, outside. Inside. She has a small house, but there is an entire room in the front of the house that is the Christmas room.

It's a living room.

You do not go in.

Yeah, it's the living room that is essentially not used in her house. No one goes in it because it's the Christmas room. Because whenever we go over there, it. The lights are never on in that room. It's always dark.

Christmas room. You're not supposed to go in there.

Sometimes people go to nap in there when it's not Christmas, But I've never seen it used, used outside of Christmas.

Because it's the Christmas room. So anyways, when Xander and I started getting serious, I think your mom brought up something about, like, oh, hey, it would be great to have you guys spend Christmas with us. One year. And that was so tough for me to hear. And I really struggled with that because on the one hand, I really, you know, I appreciated that she wanted to spend time with us. I love spending time with your family. I. You know, I completely respect that request. And on the other hand, I was like, oh, my God. The thought of missing Christmas with my family is devastating to me. And, like, it kind of feels like a weird, like, okay, you guys don't really celebrate Christmas. My family really does. So how do we kind of navigate those two things? And what we ended up doing is we just split the holidays down the middle. Like, Thanksgiving has been more of a big tradition with your family.

Yeah. At least, like, that's how I remember. Like, I remember more of my holiday memories are around Thanksgiving and, like, our whole family getting together. And, like, I have a small. You know, I have a small family and a small extended family. But, like, we are pretty much always getting together for Thanksgiving and not really getting together for Christmas. So for me, it was a pretty obvious choice, too. It was like, we have this really big, epic Christmas thing. And, you know, for my family on Thanksgiving, it's. It's relatively pretty big. Like, everyone gets together. We all cook a ton of food. I have all these great memories of Thanksgiving from being a kid, and so it felt like a pretty logical and fair way to split things.

Yeah. So we decided we spend Thanksgiving with Xander's family. We spend Christmas with my family. But, you know, even that, like, it's not a perfect solution. I miss Thanksgiving with my family. I know that Xander's parents, like, still wish that we would do a Christmas with their family. It can be just really tricky to navigate that. So, you know, there are no perfect solutions here until we figure out a way to clone ourselves and be in multiple places at the same time. But I remember, especially at the beginning of our relationship, like, having to communicate our plan, that was very hard.

Yeah.

There was disappointment all around. It felt like. Like there's no good solution. Like, everybody's gonna be dis. Somebody's gonna be disappointed no matter what we do.

Oh, yeah. It was really tough because, you know, I don't. I think it. I can't remember when we had that conversation with my parents around, just, like, this is what we want the plan to be. But I think that there may have been a couple of. It may have been a couple seasons where it was like, you know, okay, well, we. We did Thanksgiving with them, and in my mind, I'm like, okay, well, I don't want to have to Talk about this. So let's just do Thanksgiving with them. And therefore, then they won't expect that we also do Christmas with them. And then, you know, after a couple years of that, then there was that request of like, hey, it would be nice if you did Christmas with us. And then. Yeah, but it was tough. I just. I really. I can take responsibility for it. I didn't want to talk about it. I wanted it to just go my way without me having to do anything, without me having to disappoint anyone. And the reality is that there's no way to make everybody happy around the holidays when everybody has. Has expectations or preferences or whatever. And so, you know, like, eventually I was just like, look, I don't want this to create any more tension between Vanessa and I, and it's gonna be tough, but we just have to have a conversation with my parents. And we also had a conversation with your parents.

Your parents coming for Thanksgiving.

Yeah. We're also, you know, like, hey, are you ever gonna do Thanksgiving with us? And, you know, we just kind of had to lay it out and say, look, like, this is what we've decided we're gonna do, that this feels like the best choice to us in order to kind of honor both of our families, and this is what's going to feel good to us, and this is what we're going to do.

Yeah. Before we go any further, let's just tell you a little bit more about Green Chef. They were one of our very first sponsors for the podcast. And you may have heard us say before, like, so we got free meals to try it out so we could make sure that we liked it. We felt comfortable recommending it to our listeners. We really liked it. So much so that we are now ordering it every week.

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Like paying our own money for it. That's how much we like it. So we've really enjoyed all of the meals that we've gotten. Last week we had there was like these Mediterranean beef bowls with turmeric rice, and it was just so good. It was really super delicious. Simple, easy, flavorful. You can make all their meals in 30 minutes or less. It's just been so great for us. We're really enjoying the food. So if you want to try it out, you can go to greenchef.com pillow599 and use code PILLOW 599 to get $5.99 per meal on your first box. And your first box ships free. That's a lot of 5.99's in a row, but $5.99ameal is. I mean, that's pretty wild. So one thing that is brand new, they just added this, but it's called festive fare, and it's their new curated collection of premium dinners for the holidays. So it's still the same Green Chef blend of, like, easy to follow recipes, great proteins, organic produce. But these are kind of like extra special meals for the. So you're gonna get things that you can make quickly and easily, but they're just gonna feel a little bit nicer. So we're really excited to check those out too. Green Chef is the number one meal kit for eating well with dinners that work for you, not the other way around. Go to greenchef.com pillow599 and use code PILLOW599 to get $5.99 per meal on your first box. And your first box ships free. So let's get into some tips. Now we want to start off with. We have three tips for you for NAV during the holiday season. So the first thing that we think you should do is examine your own expectations of the holidays. So like I was saying earlier, I think most of us have this really romanticized view of what the holidays should look like. This, you know, magical season, and everything's perfect and wonderful. And I think it's really important for us to take a step back and think about, you know, what is it that I really want from this time of year and where are those expectations coming from? So I think a lot of us can get into trouble because we get into this, like, oh, this is how we've always done it type of thing versus what is it that I actually want to do? You know, we might also feel pressure of, like, yeah, this is what my family has always done, or this is what other people expect of me, or.

Like, this is how I remember it from 20 years ago. Whether or not that memory is, you know, exactly right or not.

Yeah. And then there's even pressure of, like, seeing how our friends and people we even follow on social media. I mean, it's like, who doesn't see all these pictures of social media influencers and their families? And, like, they're all in their matching jammies and the house is, like, perfectly beautifully decorated inside and out, and there are a thousand presents under the tree. And, like, how can you not internalize a little pressure of, like, oh, the holidays are supposed to look like this. I mean, not to mention the fact that there's so much advertising going on around this time of year, like, shoving this perfect vision down our throats. So it's just so easy for us to get wrapped into these ideas of, like, what it should be. And what we really want to encourage you to do in this step is to take a step back and to think about what's actually going to be meaningful for me. What are expectations that I've kind of been taught to have versus what are the. The goals that I really want to go into this season with?

Yeah, I mean, I think the important thing is, like, laying it out for yourself, whether you're. You're saying it verbally to yourself or to your partner or, like, writing it all down. Yeah, because. Because it's. You know, the thing with expectations is that when we just keep them in our head, it's easy for very unreasonable things to feel totally normal until we actually write them down. And once you start writing it down, if you're like, I want to spend. I want to spend, like, quality time, multiple days with, like, all these different, you know, at four different houses, blah, blah, blah. It's like, once you write it down, you're like, hold on, that's completely unreasonable. And as soon as you have that realization or see it written out, and you're like, okay, yeah, now that I have that written out, that. That is unreasonable, like, then it loses its power over you, and it's so. It's just. It sounds so simple. You're like, oh, yeah, I'm thinking about it. It's the same thing as writing it down. No, like, write it. Like, literally write it down and then. And then see how it feels. Like it's probably not going to have that much power over you, and it's gonna be way easier to be like, all right, what are some reasonable expectations for me to have?

Yeah. And the other major tip that we want to give here is to lower your expectations. Going into the holidays, I think so many of us just get ourselves worked into this frenzy and we have these sky high expectations. And if you can just take a step back and say, you know what. What can I do to make this season a little bit easier on myself, on my partner, on my family? Like, are there some things that I can let go of?

Yeah, I mean. Cause, like, the other thing that I just thought of as you were saying that is, like, if you write them all down, like, you might have some, you know, let's say you have a couple really high expectations about things. Think about, like, all right, what would need to happen in order for all these expectations to be met? And if you are, and if what you come up with is, well, everything has to go absolutely perfect. Like, we don't ever hit any traffic on the drive here or there or like, and if the answer is everything has to go perfect, then that's a good sign that, like, it's probably not going to go perfect. Or maybe one out of five years those expectations get met. That's a good sign of like, oh, okay, maybe we should dial it back a little bit because, like, you know, things aren't perfect. We're dealing with family, things are unpredictable, People do things, people say things that we don't want them to do, do or say, and shit just doesn't go right. So, like, can we set our expectations in a way that allows for a lot of things to go kind of sideways and we still have an okay to even good time?

Another thing that pops into my mind is to then discuss those expectations with your partner. So in this conversation, you really want to take ownership of your expectations. So that's why you have to have gone through that first step of really getting clear on this is what I would like to do do. And this is why I would like us to do it. So that makes for a much better conversation with your partner when you're able to, like, share those things with them, take that responsibility over it. And that way you guys are really. You're talking about what's really important to you versus just like, do we get these gifts or do we not get these gifts? You know, it just makes for a deeper, richer conversation.

Yeah. So it's not about like, oh, one person has to be wrong and one person. Person has to be right. Or like, it's not just about like a logical thing like, oh, well, because I think a lot of people. That's where a lot of people get off the rails. There is that like one partner's like, oh, well, what you want is ridiculous because of this, this, this and this. And it's like you're trying to disprove them with logic. And it's like, no, like, let's talk about, like, what are our expectations? What is it that we want? Let's set logic aside and just try to talk about what it is that we want and why we want it so that we can get at kind of the emotion or the feelings, the tradition, the history behind it.

Yeah. And the really important part of this conversation is that you and your partner should each validate each other's desires. Validate that.

Why?

So again, it's like, we're not just talking about the gifts, we're talking about what is that underlying motivation, that emotion, that history there. So even if you guys don't agree on the logistics of what you should do, if you give each other this validation of, I understand why you want to do that, I understand why that's meaningful to you, that makes sense to me. That's going to make the conversation so much better than you just arguing back and forth like gifts or no gifts.

Yeah, well, because you can talk logistics in the like after that. But if you immediately go to logistics and be like, well, there's no way we could ever do that because X, Y and Z, then your partner just is going to feel totally unseen. You're just missing an opportunity for connection. I think that's the key with expectations and with emotions, is that you can understand, you can have empathy for, you can validate someone's expectations or someone's emotions. That doesn't mean that you have to accept them. Be like, okay, sure, we're going to do that. Like, you know, you can sort of divorce the logic from the emotion when it comes to these things. And you will find that your, your experience is a lot smoother when you do that.

Absolutely. So if you're able to start with that validation and helping each other really feel seen and understood, I think it will eventually make the conversation about the logistics feel a lot smoother because you've, you've talked about what's really important and what really matters. So if you start from that place of I get it, that makes sense, I understand it, I respect you, I love you, I get it, then you can get into the logistics and have a more collaborative conversation about, like, hey, what's actually doable for us? And I think that that validation also opens up the space for a lot of creativity. Like when you get into a defensive place with your partner where you're just arguing like, I want it, I don't want it. Well, I want it, but I don't want it. Like, just get stuck in that kind of place. But once you have that underlying validation, then it just opens up all this space for us to say, like, okay, so what can we do? Like, we can't pay a professional company thousands of dollars to come and, like, do the lights all around our house.

As nice as that might be.

Yeah, like what? But we want it to feel festive and decorative. Like, what can we do? Okay, maybe we can DIY some stuff. Maybe we can pay some neighborhood kids to come over and help out. Maybe we actually realize, you know what, just because the rest of the neighborhood is decorating that doesn't mean that we need to. So we're gonna give ourselves that space just for this one year to not decorate, you know, so just. It just opens up more space for that kind of collaboration, that creativity.

Yeah. I mean, and by having that conversation, you're naturally doing the exercise that we were talking about earlier, which is like, laying out your own expectations, and you may find one or both of you, and having that conversation, you say the thing and you're like, God. As I'm saying that, that doesn't actually feel so important to me anymore. So it's another reason to do it.

And then step number three is to communicate your plan to your people.

So don't skip this one.

Do not skip this one.

As tempted as you may be. I know, I've been there. I'm like, I know what I want to do, but I don't want to tell my family.

Yeah, it's that lack of communication that really gets us into these tricky places with our families. So if you can talk to your family and share the plan, can. As much time ahead of schedule as you can, the better. But I think the number one tip that we have here is that when you're in a relationship, in a serious, committed relationship with your partner, it's really best if the two of you function as a team. You're going to be pulled in a lot of different directions. You have different families, different traditions, different expectations. But, like, if you guys can go into it feeling. Feeling like we're a team, we're gonna decide the plan together. It doesn't always have to be you guys doing the same thing, but it's like we are deciding the plan together, and no one.

Yeah. Like, no one person is gonna change the plan without talking to the other person about it. Because I think then we. We all get into those sketchy situations in the holidays where it's like, we had a plan, and then all of a sudden, like, you're, you know, like, you're off with your mom, and she's like, hey, would you do this instead? And then, like, you know, and then you feel guilty and you're like, oh, okay, sure, we'll do that. And then all of a sudden, you come to me later, and it's like, oh, by the way, now we have to do blah, blah, blah. And like, I think that happens so often where it's like, you know, it's like a parent or family member that we're super close to, and we don't feel comfortable saying no in that moment. And I think the key is you don't have to just say no. It's. It's. Hey, like, I need to talk to my partner about this. Because we. We have a plan in place, and if we're going to change the plan, we both need to talk about it.

It's going to other things.

Yeah. And it's. Yeah, it's not. It's not like you're saying, oh, yeah, I'm totally down. But we'll ask. We'll ask.

Don't throw your partner.

Don't throw them under the bus. I think a lot of people do that, too. We're like, oh, yeah, that sounds great, but let me talk to my partner. So therefore, if we come back to you and say no, you'll know it was them who said no and not me. I think a lot of us fall into that trap. We don't really realize we're doing it, per se, but that's basically what we're doing. Oh, my God. You got to, you know, hold your cards close, close to the vest and just be. Be like. Like, you know, don't. Don't say yes or no preemptively. Just be like, hey, we got a lot of things planned. I don't even know. Maybe you're like, I don't even know what the whole. I can't even remember the whole plan. Let me go chat.

And I would say, I can't remember it. I wouldn't say, I don't know, because that makes it sound like it's your partner. But, like, you can say, you know. Yeah. There are a lot of moving pieces, so I gotta figure out how that would affect the other things we've got going on. So we'll chat and we'll come back to you.

Yep.

So, of course, this brings up the inevitable question of, like, what happens if people are disappointed?

And, well, they will be.

Yeah. That's tip number one, is like, you have to expect that people are going to be disappointed.

Yeah. Have an expectation of disappointment. Expect the disappointment.

What a positive podcast.

My number one holiday expectation is that I will disappoint people. Seriously, though, that. That's not a bad piece of advice.

It really is, isn't. Yeah. I mean, it's just there are so many different directions that you're gonna get pulled in and so many different things that so many different people want to do.

So kind of like a wedding. Like.

Yeah.

Like, if you have had a wedding, have you had a wedding where no one in your family had any disappointment about anything? If. So, congrats to you magical unicorn. You should write a book about how to do that. But it, you know, I would liken it very much, much to a wedding where it's like, I mean, if you want to try to have your wedding where you don't disappoint everyone, good luck. It's not going to happen. We're dealing with people here, so expect.

That disappointment, as uncomfortable as that may feel for you. I know it's not easy to know that people are disappointed, but I think it's really reasonable to just expect it and allow the space for those feelings. Like, you don't want to drive yourself nuts trying to get someone else not to feel disappointed. Like, it's okay for them to feel disappointed. And I think you can even lead with that when you're sharing news with a family member or a loved one. Like, I know this isn't what you wanted. It's not what I wanted either. Man, the holidays are so tough. Like, I'm pulled in so many different directions, and I'm trying my best. We are trying our best to do as much as we can. And we totally understand if this feels disappointing, and we really wish that we could prevent it, you know? So I think, like, that definitely came up with our decision about how we split the holidays. Like, there was disappointment in my family for not being able to spend Thanksgiving with us. There was disappointment with your family for not being able to have Christmas with us. And they may feel that disappointment, like, every year a little bit. And, like, and we have to let that be okay. We have to let them feel their feelings.

And I think the other thing that, like, we kind of had to. To say to each other or just remind each other is, like, just because we share this plan, it doesn't mean that we can't expect that no one will ever say anything to us again about it. Because the reality was, I think for many years after that, we would, you know, occasionally hear things from your family or from my family, kind of, you know, whether explicitly or implicitly, like, oh, bummer, we're not going to see you for Thanksgiving. Or like, what? Like, oh, what? Like, we're not going to see you at all. And we just kind of had to. We had to set the expectation for ourselves. Yeah, that's going to happen. Like, we can't expect them to just hear that once and be like, oh, okay, cool. I will never say that again. So. So that I really make sure you don't feel bad about it. Like, people, as one of our employees, like to say, people, gun people. And you know, people have feelings, and sometimes they share things they don't. You know, we are living, Jackie. Yeah, we. We are. We are living. You know, we are living our life all the time, being like, yeah, this is what we do for the holidays. Holidays, blah, blah, blah. We have the plan in mind all the time. But, like, we can't expect every single family member to remember our specific plan constantly and, like, never say anything. Like, they're gonna need to be reminded about it sometimes. And that also means that they might say something that could bring up a little tinge of guilt, and that comes along with the territory. So we just had to remind each other about that so that it wasn't like, oh, God, they're saying something. They must really want us to change this. It was just like, nope, they're gonna do that sometimes, and we have to. To be okay with that.

Yeah. And similarly to what we were talking about in step two, I think, like, when you validate people's disappointment, it helps it pass for them faster. So if you try to, like, no, don't be disappointed. Oh, my God, I'm so sorry. Please don't feel that way. You know, like, they're just gonna still feel disappointed. But if you can meet them in that space and say, this is such a bummer, I really get it. I really wish it didn't have to be this way. And I understand that you're disappointed. It makes sense to me. I would feel disappointed if I was in your shoes, too. Like, that just helps that feeling pass so much faster. Oh, man, I'm loving this episode. I could keep going, but we gotta. We gotta transition into some listener questions. I didn't think we were gonna have so much to say about the holidays.

Oh, we. We got a lot to say. I mean, this is gonna end up being definitely one of our longer, if not maybe longest, podcasts, but I think it's great. Cause it's. Well, this is coming out right before the holidays, and, you know, a lot of people are on the road during the holidays, so I'll. I'll just call this, like, Holiday Road Trip Edition Podcast Extra long, the Extended Edition.

Okay. That'll be the title of it. Okay, let's get into it with our questions. So these are, like, the longer situations that people shared with us, and we're gonna give you, like, our hot takes on these situations and our advice on how to navigate them. I. I think that everybody will have at least a couple that they resonate with or learn something from. So we broke these down into the categories Again, let's start with the money category. Partner thinks everything should be even. I don't agree. We're a blended family. And he thinks that if my sister doesn't buy for his son from a previous relationship, we shouldn't buy for her son, my nephew. I don't agree. Okay, so definitely big theme here around, like, who buys presents for who? So we can kind of take a bigger picture step with this question and just say, like, this is a great thing to discuss well before the holidays. And I think there are very gentle ways to set it up of like, hey, look, we just want to chat about the holidays. We know everybody's working with different budgets and different ideas and all that kind of stuff. So can we make a game plan? Plan of who's gonna buy presents for who? So you kind of get it all out on the table like that versus having one of those really uncomfortable situations where it's like, one person's bought a bunch of presents for somebody else, and they don't get anything in return. But my hot take on this one is like, to me, I understand where the guy is coming from. Like, this is his son.

Sure.

It's from a previous relationship, so there's not a blood connection through to this sister.

Yeah, but, like, the family's blended. We're all together.

We're all together. So why is the sister not wanting to buy a gift for this child? Like, to me, that seems there must be some other sort of story here, because I don't really understand that, but it seems like this guy is being a little bit tit for tat. Like, if you don't buy a present for my kid. I'm not buying a present for your kid. But I also get that.

Yeah, I mean, I think it might need to be one of those things where it's like, hey, hey, this feels a bit vindictive. Like, oh, you're not going to buy one, you know, for. For my son. So therefore, we won't buy, you know, we will withhold from you because you're withholding from us. And so it's almost. But it's like, I would say, like, you know, this. Like, I hear you saying that it should be even. It does feel a bit like tit for tat or vindictive or withholding. Is that. Is that what your intention is? Because I can understand that. But I guess it's just getting at, like, is that. Is that really how they are thinking about it? And then I think the next step would be a conversation, you know, with, you know, the person asking the question with. With the sister of just like, hey, you know, like, would you. I think it's sort of a. It's like you either need to not buy gifts for any of our kids or you got to buy gifts for all the kids because it is. Feel it. It brings up an unfair dynamic amongst the kids.

I don't. Yeah. I think you're reading this kind of vindictive tone to it. I don't pick up so much. Of course, we have no idea what the situation is, but, like, we don't really know what the energy is behind that. I. My read on it was like, it felt kind of protective. Like, well, if you're not going to buy a gift for my child, like, why would I buy a gift for your child? Like, they're not a more legitimate family member just because my child is with a different partner, you know. But I do think. Yeah, approaching. So I think the person who wrote this in should talk to their sister and say, hey, like, I just want to talk about gifts this year. Like, you know, this. This is my son too. It's my partner. We have a blended family. Like, this is my child, and I want my child to be treated the same way that all the other children in this family are treated. Even though it's not, you know, it's not a blood son, it's still, this is my son.

Yeah. And so I think the gracious thing to do then would be to give the sister the option of. It's not like, I'm so that. It's not like you have to buy a gift for everyone. Everyone. So you can say, I, you know, would you consider not buying a gift for any of my kids if, like, if the budget is the issue, or consider buying gifts for all of them so that it's not just like, so that it doesn't come across as like, hey, you've done something wrong and you got it. The only way to fix it is to do this. Like, like, give them, Give them an easy out.

Yeah. Yeah. But especially with this being children, like, I feel more of a protective vibe of, like, that's unfair to have one child who's there, like, not getting any presents and the rest of them are like, that doesn't feel.

Yeah. That. That's really unfair and that, that, that's gonna. That's gonna bring up some tough conversation. You know, the kid is gonna have.

Blended families and to like, you know, to be brought in as like a stepson. Like, let's make it easier on the kids.

Oh, yeah.

Okay, next one. I want to go bonkers spending on the kids. My partner does. Pleasant. They're only little ones, the kids, and I want to make Christmas really special for them. What's your hot take on this one?

My hot take is they're. They're only little once. You're right. But are they really gonna remember the difference between, like, bonkers and a lot of presents? Or, like, if you were to set a budget? I am not sure your kids necessarily are going to know the difference.

To me, this feels like, where is that expectation that the holiday should be bonkers? Because that feels pretty over the top to me. Like, yeah, I get, you know, wanting to have the holidays feel luxurious and fun and generous, but bonkers feels like maybe that's a little too extreme.

And also, are you potentially setting up an unreasonable expectation if you play it out into the future? Future? Like, you know, if you. You inadvertently create an expectation amongst your kids as they start to get older of, oh, on the holidays, we get, like, literally everything on our list. And, you know, think about what you were like as a teenager if you. If you have the expectation that, oh, my parents get me whatever I want, and then you're a teenager and you're like, okay, well, I want a laptop. I want a tv, I want to blah, blah, blah. Like, it's just like, are you setting. Are you set? Yeah, pony. Are you setting yourself up for success?

I would also encourage this person to have conversations with their partner about the mental load of finances, because this reminds me of what we were saying earlier in the episode. Like, is the partner the one who's like, oh, my God, I'm stressed out. We don't have the budget for this. We can't afford this. And here's my partner wanting to go bonkers, but now I feel like I have to be the scrooge and say, we can't because we can't afford it. So definitely have a conversation about the financial mental load.

All right, now some questions about time. My partner wants to show off our kids to their family who do not have relationships with us. I would rather spend time with my side who are very involved and truly want us to be there.

Okay, this is an interesting. I need to know more about, like, why don't they have relationships?

Yeah, there's some.

Why do they want to see you only at the holiday?

Yeah, there's some pointed you uses of quotes in this one and a couple words where I'm like, okay, I think there's a little more behind this.

Yeah. So I. My Advice would really depend on what the situation is with your partner's family. But I think if you don't have relationships with this, with these people, and this is like a very special time of the year for you and your family, I would say, like, I'm not gonna go spend this very limited short season with people who don't care enough to have a relationship with me the rest of the year. Like, if they want. If your part wants to show off the kids, show them off in April.

Well, yeah, show. Show them off in April and, you know, give it. Give yourself a chance to start building some more relationship by showing off.

But also don't show.

Yeah, I mean, don't. Yeah, don't. Don't show them off. That. I mean, that is not going to feel. You know, eventually your kids are going to start picking up on, like, what's going on, and that's just going to set up a super unhealthy family dynamic.

This is a bad dynamic to put kids in the middle of. If there's some sort of family tension or some unresolved stuff, like, the adults need to figure that out. The kids shouldn't be thrust in the middle of that to, like, show off or, like, try to fix things. So I'm, I'm with the person who wrote in, spend time with your family, the people who care about you and actually want to spend time with you.

But I think that there, there is some work to do, you know, amongst both of them throughout the rest of the year of, like, how can we build a more meaningful relationship with the other side of the family? I. I think, yeah, if. Want to. If there's not some, like, you know, you know, serious reason why, like, you guys don't get along or they're not healthy for you or whatever it is. But, you know, I think that there's an opportunity here to, to try to develop this throughout the year. Because the reality is if you go, okay, well, then we're just never going to spend any time with you, then also you're guaranteeing that you're never really going to have any type of relationship with them. And so just think about, you know, what are your goals? You want to have a better relationship with this side of the family, then I would say there's a lot of work to be done. Not during the holidays. The holidays are probably a time to be like, okay, this is the one time a year that we show up, and then you're adding extra pressure. Now we have to really have this quality time and like, really repair Our relationship.

Oh, yeah.

All right. Next time one is our families make it hard. Mind plans way in advance to make sure everyone can make it. My partner's family are extremely last minute, but they get their feelings hurt and feel like we favor my family because it's often an inconvenience and requires rescheduling to make his family stay stuff work.

Okay. I think this is the perfect example of a situation where communication beforehand is going to save everybody. So I think you should go to your partner's family ahead of time and say something like, hey, you know, we've been reflecting on the last couple of holidays or maybe just last year or something like that. And I know that it got really challenging because there were some, you know, last minute plans, but we are doing had plans with my family and there were, you know, just some, like, hurt feelings and disappointment. We really want to do whatever we can do to make the holiday season as stress free and spend as much quality time with everybody as we can. So we want to prepare for this holiday season a little bit differently and say something like, you know, can we come up with a plan of what we're going to do and when we're going to do it so that we make sure that we're there? Because you guys are important to us. We want to spend that time with you, with you. We just need a plan. So just ask them to make that plan going forward. And that may not be their vibe. They may say something like, oh, but you know us, like, we love to plan things so loud or we just fly by the seat of our pants or whatever. And you can say like, I totally get that and I respect that. It's just that if that's the way we go into it, the likelihood is that we're not going to be able to spend that much time with you guys. Like the way that our lives work, we really do have to plan things out as much as possible. And again, it's like reiterating, you're important to us. We want to spend that time with you. So if you could help us out by helping us come up with a game plan ahead of time, letting us know when would be the most meaningful time for us to show up. What are we going to do together? That way we can ensure that we're there.

Yeah, I mean, another way that you could do it is kind of start to share, hey, so like, these plans are coming together on my side of the family and you could even kind of like sell it to them in a bit of a. Almost like A salesy or marketing kind of way where you, you can tell them, here's like all the plans that are coming together that are happening the entire time. But you guys are really important to us. And I totally understand you may not have any plans yet or you may not have any plans until the last minute because, you know, if that's how you enjoy operating. But like seeing all this laid out with my family, like we want to make sure that we are car. You know, we are going to need to say no to some of these things. We're going to have to cut some of these out because it's really important. Important for us to spend time with you. So, you know, if you don't have, if you truly don't have any plans and you know you're not going to have any, we'll just, you know, we'll cut out these, you know, X days or X times. But if you come to us, Reno, if you right now have some specific ones that you would like us to prioritize, we can prioritize that for you. Something like that. So that it's really clear, like, look, these are the things that my family is doing. And look, we're, we're not going to do all of that, those things with them because you are also important to us and you give them the option of like, you know, we can, we can just split the time 50, 50 and we'll, you know, we'll carve out the things that feel like least important to us with them and then spend that time with you. Or you can tell me right now, you know, a couple days that are going to be really important to you.

Another thing that you could do if, if your partner's family just like really won't make plans is you could commit to being with them on certain days. So you could say, you know, we're going to be with you Monday through Thursday or you know, I'm just making up random example here of like, we'll be available, we can do whatever you want, you know, do this, fly by the seat of our pants, last minute planning kind of stuff. But on Friday through Monday, you know, we're with my family and we're not going to be able to do anything. So it's like you give their family the space to be spontaneous and freewheeling, but you're also drawing a boundary of like, we're also not going to be available at this time. Okay, next up, we have a doozy in the family category. This is my first holiday with my boyfriend. We're excited to spend the holidays together, but I'm already preemptively stressed about how our plans for this year will lock us into a specific schedule for the rest of our lives.

Ooh, interesting drama.

We've decided to do Thanksgiving with his parents and Christmas with my parents this year. There are many specific reasons for doing so. When my boyfriend brought this up to his mom, she was pretty upset. Christmas is her be all, end all holiday. I totally empathize that she's disappointed to not get her preferred holiday. However, she told him in no uncertain terms that she is not okay with him spending Christmas with my family unless his parents are guaranteed to get us next Christmas. I'm not used to this because my parents don't give permission for me to make holiday plans, and they don't guilt me about making plans that work best for. For me. I don't discount how hard it would be to have a parent who makes you feel guilty about the holidays, but I just hate feeling like we can't make any plans without getting her blessing because I didn't sign up for a relationship where three people's needs and wants have to be considered in every decision. Ooh, that last sentence. Zing. So, yeah, I mean, this one's really intense. This idea that, like, she is coming out and saying, like, no, you have to guarantee that you're going to spend, you know, at least every other Christmas.

With us, and you have to guarantee that you're going to be together in a year.

So I do empathize with, like, obviously this mom loves Christmas. She wants to see her son at this time. And. And it sounds like, you know, this is this couple's first holiday season together, so they're at the beginning of, like, how this is all going to work out. But this is exactly what we meant about when you guys are in a committed relationship relationship, it's important for you to be a team together and be deciding what works best for the two of you and then communicating that to your families. And this is hard at the beginning of a relationship. Like, this is your first holiday season together. Like, it might feel your. Your boyfriend's gonna feel very pulled in different directions.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, I'm sure if the roles were reversed, you would also feel very similar early pulled. It's just. I mean, looking at it objectively, it's an unfair amount of pressure to put on yourselves that early in your relationship. Like, you've. I'm assuming you've been together for less than a year, you're saying this is your first holiday with your boyfriend. So, I mean, just the idea being like, well, then you have to guarantee that next year you'll be here. I mean, like, that's tough because it's like, when you have been with someone for less than a year, being. Being like, oh, yeah, I'll guarantee that we're together in a year is kind of a tall order anyway, like, on top of the fact that it's, like, guaranteeing where you will be. So. Yeah, and so I can see how it's tough to start having that conversation of, like, hey, we have to be a team. And if we're not a team, like, this relationship isn't going to work. Like, it's probably easier to try to put it in the context of, hey, this is feeling really stressful. You know, we haven't been together together for very long, so it doesn't. It doesn't feel fair to either of us to be having this pressure so early in our relationship to be, like, negotiating the deal going forward. So because of that, I think it's really important just for this year that we are just really on the same team about what we're doing so that neither of us have to feel this pressure. And so maybe that's just like you needing to have a really clear conversation with your mom of, like, look, we haven't even been together very long. As much as I understand how you want to make sure that we are fairly splitting up the holidays, I'm not, Like, I'm not ready. Like, we are not, like, committing to being together forever. So we will, like, yes, it could be like this. Yes, we will do Christmas with you next year if we are still together. And after that, we will reevaluate, because it's not fair. One year is not fair to do, to be, like, committing to this going forward.

Yeah, I like that advice better. I. I think I wouldn't even talk about next Christmas. I think I would just focus on the, like, look, this is our first holiday together. Like, we're not ready to commit to the exact schedule going forward. Like, we need to see how things go and feel things out and again, give her that validation of, like, I totally understand that, like, Christmas is a big deal. And I know it's hard that now I'm in this relationship and. And you're gonna have my time split up amongst families. So, like, I get it. I love you. You're important to me, Mom. But, like, I can't make a commitment yet of exactly what we're gonna do.

And I think to. To the person asking this question, if you've only been together for a year or less than a year, and this is coming up and you're feeling like, God, this is bringing up, like, commitment stuff about our relationship that doesn't necessarily even feel appropriate yet. Like, I do think that this is a. A valid opportunity to be like, look, like, I. Like, we're gonna do the hall. We're. Let's just do Christmas separate this year. It doesn't. I don't feel ready to be making these type of decisions. I think. I mean, I think that's why a lot of couples do end up doing that, and that actually does end up being a good option for a lot of people. If you don't have kids, is. Is just literally splitting it up because it's like, look, we're not. We're not able to be making these type of commitments yet. We're not able to. To be having these kinds of conversations yet. It's. It's too charged or it's too complicated. So I think that could be another good option. As much as it would feel good for you guys to be together, it may not be in the cards yet.

Yeah. You know, I would. I would kind of take a look at, like, how much influence does your boyfriend's mom have in other areas of his life? Like, is she really involved in a lot of his decisions? Does he run everything by her? Is he resistant to. To, you know, speaking up against her or anything like that? Like, again, it's so tricky because you're at the beginning of a relationship, but I. I think, you know, I. I love the way the person phrased this question. They are being very respectful. They're being validating. It's not like, screw you, mom. You know, it's. So I think that they sound like a really polite, reasonable person. And if you want to make sure you're with somebody who can also be an adult and stand on his own two feet and make their own decisions and allow for there to be some disappointment. Like, yeah, this might be something to take a little bit of a look at.

Yeah. And I don't think that necessarily means, like, oh, this is a huge red flag, so we just need to break up. But it's more of a. It's an invitation to start having those conversations. Because I think, you know, if I look back to early in our relationship, I'd never really had to deal with this type of holiday stuff and disappointing family members and whatnot. And so, of course, I came out at operating from, like, the perspective I. To Used. Used to. To operate with before I had a significant other where it was just like, try to disappoint as few people as possible. And, you know, I think I needed a couple pushes or like, I needed you to just clearly say, like, hey, like, we. I really need for us to be a team going into this because it doesn't feel good when we are, you know, not on the same team. And, like, you know, you're trying to make your mom happy at the expense of me. And I just needed to hear that and really get that through my mind, because once I heard you say that, I was like, yeah, duh. Like, of course I want to prioritize you and I want to prioritize us and us being a team, but I just needed it literally laid out in front of me. And so this partner might need that too. And you can have a couple conversations like that, and if nothing changes and nothing changes and it just seems like, okay, I'm, like, banging my head against the wall, then that's a good sign that maybe this isn't the best thing. Thing for you.

And also, we have an in Law survival guide that is episode 27, so scroll back and check that one out.

All right, let's move on to traditions. My husband doesn't think they're as important as I do or put the effort to try to make traditions for our family. I understand why he grew up with a single mom and they didn't celebrate holidays as deeply as my family does. Now making these traditions for our family is mostly put on me because he doesn't care as much and. Or doesn't know what to do for them because he didn't have. Have that many as a kid.

Okay. So I love that this couple has started with, like, getting behind their stories around this like, that the person writing this knows that their husband, like, it's because they didn't have this experience as a child and that, you know, just reading that, like, I feel a lot of empathy for this husband and I understand, like, yeah, it sounds like holidays were a more challenging time, so it's great that they're starting there now. The issue is, you know, that the mental load and the effort of the traditions is being put on the person who wrote this question. So I kind of think my brain goes to, could you guys make a list of, like, possible traditions that you could do? Maybe this is even something that you kind of like, Google together. Like, best holiday traditions, most meaningful holiday traditions. Maybe this could be great conversations to have with friends of like, hey, tell me like, what was the most meaningful thing that your family did when you were growing up? So make a little list. And then together, could the two of you go through that list and think about, like, which ones would we actually like to do?

So, yeah, it's gonna be fun. Like, hey, let's really. Let's come up with something that's gonna be really meaningful for us. Or, like, what, like, you put it on your partner. Like, what are some of your favorite things to do? Let's, like, let's put together an epic thing that. That you. That, like, both of us are gonna love.

Yeah. So if it's. If you approach your partner, like, I don't wanna just default to doing the things like my family has always done. Like, I want us to make new traditions together as a family, and I want our kids to get to have a different kind of experience of the holidays than you had. There could also be. The therapist in me wants to dig into a little bit with the husband. Like, what is the holiday that that little boy would have really loved to have? You know, if he can access that of, like, oh, man, I really would.

Have loved this because he can give that to his kids and that can be a healing process.

Give that to himself too. Anyways. Oh, I want to dig into this one so much. But, yeah, I would. I would say kind of start from scratch and say, you know, what is the experience that we want to create for our family? Let's do this together. Let's pick things that feel interesting and meaningful and fun to us.

And I think the other thing is that, like, if you can understand why your husband, you know, doesn't have that same, like, tradition mindset, because if his experience. I do think that for yourself, maybe there's, you know, you could set an expectation that it might take a number of years for your partner to develop that habit of really understanding your own new traditions. Because, like, it's, you know, if. Especially if it's just a holiday tradition, you're only going to do it once. Each holiday is like, you know, you do it once, and the next year you. You do it again. And you might need to take on some more of that mental load because you have a appreciation for true traditions that your partner doesn't. But so you do it again the next year, and then give little subtle pieces of encouragement, talk to your partner, hey, wasn't that fun when we did that again? Oh, remember what this was like last year when we did it? And, like, you're laying the groundwork for, like, creating a positive association for these traditions. And so it might take many years of repetition before your partner, it really clicks in their mind, like, oh, this is a tradition. This is what it feels like. I can, you know, I can remember, like, all the things each year, what we did, how it was different, what thing was better, whatever. So I think also lowering your own expectation, like, you know, a tradition is literally a habit, like, over time. And it takes a number of repetitions to really form a habit. And in this case, unfortunately, those repetitions are annual.

Or you don't have to approach it as like, a tradition. It could be, what do we want to do this year? I think sometimes when we think of the word tradition, that feels heavy and big and like, oh, my God, now I have to commit to. We're doing this every year going forward. So don't think about it in that way. Think of it as, like, this year, what sounds fun? What sounds meaningful?

Yeah. And then recap afterwards. Be like, hey, what was the most fun thing of all these things that we tried this year? And then you'd be like, hey, what if we did that again next year? You know, pick the best things, repeat them, and then try new things. And that could be a good, great way to ease into creating a tradition, Kind of a ninja tradition creation, so to speak. You know, like, you know, he's maybe not even aware that you're creating a tradition, but you actually are by being, like, repeating the good stuff and finding new things. And then pretty soon, you'll have a short list of things that you want to repeat every year.

Okay, and let's wrap things up with the sex and intimacy category. So by far and away, the biggest one was people talking about, like, one partner wants to have sex, the other partner doesn't. When you're traveling. Traveling and, like, in someone else's home or you have guests in your home. So we want to point you over to episode 30 of the podcast, which is called Doing It With Other People Around. So we go all into this one specific dynamic in that episode. But here is our last question. I'm exhausted trying to do all the holiday things. I just am never in the mood because I have no idea. Energy partner just enjoys the fruits of my labor and is horny.

God damn that partner for being horny. God damn it.

What's your hot take on this one?

My hot take is if you are never in the mood and you have no energy, then perhaps you are doing too many holiday things.

Interesting. My hot take is, what is the partner doing? Just enjoying the fruits of Their labor.

Oh, yeah. Okay. Yes, yes. There.

There.

There are two elements. I think there are two elements of. This is. Okay, let's take out that second part about the partner enjoying the fruits of your labor. If you guys are just way too busy doing all the things, then that's an opportunity to think about. Are we doing too many things? Because it is. It doesn't. Because the reality is when we are disconnected physically or emotionally, like, it doesn't feel good. So can we free things up so that we can have some of that more emotional or physical connection? However, if you are doing.

Yeah. And I think saying, like, you can say to your partner and to yourself, like, we want to make space for intimacy and closeness and connection during the holidays, so how can we take a few things off of our plate, make it easier on ourselves? And especially for any traditions that you're having a hard time letting go of, like reminding yourself, hey, I've been miserable the last few years. I've been exhausted. I've had no energy for anything. Like, can I be a little bit gentler and easier on myself? But there's.

There's a major second part here, Major.

Part of this here. So partners should not be just sitting around enjoying the fruits of your labor. Like, this is a mental load and an effort issue.

Yeah. If that's how it feels. I would be really curious if your partner got a little more involved doing some of all the things that you are doing, might you naturally free up some space for both of you? Video.

So we will link to our mental load workbook in the show notes that really helps couples get clear on, like, what your responsibilities are, dividing things up in a way that feels fair for your unique family situation. So that's definitely a good tip for the two of you. But yeah, it's. It's. It's not fair for one partner to be running around doing everything and the other partner doing nothing and then also putting this expectation of, like, hey, why aren't we having. Having sex? You know, take care of me, take care of my needs.

Yeah, because they. They need to understand then it makes sex feel like just one more thing that you need to do when. When you have a to do list that's a mile long, and then you're being expected to do this other thing that, of course, you don't have any, you know, mental space for. Then. Yeah, it's literally just another item on the to do list. It's a simple question. Do you want sex to be an item on my to do list, or do you want it to be something that we actually actually, you know, that we actually both want for each other. Because long term, I don't think that's really the type of relationship you want to be in. It's definitely not the type of relationship I want to be in.

Zing.

Mic drop.

Okay, there you go. Mic dropping yourself again. We have to stop. We already pushed back a meeting. We have another meeting in five minutes. The holidays got us fired up. I did not. This is, like, the longest episode ever, I think.

Oh, yeah. We are of, like, raw audio. We're over 90.

You can't tell people that. Then they're gonna know how much we messed up and, like, cut out of it.

I think we do a pretty good job. I think you'll be. Well, we. I won't say how far over 90 minutes we are. How about that?

All right, well, we will link a couple of things in the show notes for you, that mental load workbook, and also check out episode 27 and episode 30 of the podcast.

All right, well, that's it for today's episode of Pillow Talks. Thank you so much for listening to that doozy of an episode.

I could keep going. I, like, want to keep talking, but we can't. We gotta go.

Yeah, you're done. We gotta go. You're done. Check your expectations.

Vanessa, turn my mic on.

All right, join us again next week when we talk about 15 lessons we've learned in 15 years together. Wow. Wow. 15 years.

Oh, keep going.

No, that wasn't meant to be a song. Wow. This is gonna be a good little Easter egg at the end. All right. Yeah. 15 years together. I love it.

No, wait, I love it. Keep going. 15 years together, together Sing it to the tuna. Together as one Sing it to the tuna. Mariah Carey.

That's too much for my brain.

All I want in 15 years all.

I want for 15 years is 15 lessons learned.

It's horrible.

Wow. Okay, okay, we. We got to stop. We're out. Bye.