EPISODE 99: The Bristle Reaction: What It Is, How It Happens, And What You Can Do To Fix It

Xander and I did this exercise together and even 15 years together of a sex therapist and her regular dude husband who talk about sex all the time, who wrote a freaking book about it. I did not know your top ways of being touched. I was very surprised with your answers. Hello and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Xander Marin. I'm a sex therapist with over 20 years of experience.

And I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.

Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. Thanks to Green Chef for sponsoring Pillow Talks. Green Chef is the number one meal kit for eating well. Go to greenchef.com pillow60 and use code PILLOW60. That's six zero to get 60% off plus free shipping. Hey, babe. How does it feel to be viral?

It feels incredible. I've never felt so good to have a virus.

Actually.

I should have been like, it feels so sick.

You really missed your chance.

I did. But you know, if you feel so super sick. Sick. Yeah. So sick. Been dreaming of this sickness. The viral sickness.

Too bad you actually didn't go viral. I went viral.

I did not go viral without cheese at all.

Sadly, I'm flying. Flying high on my own. We went viral a couple of weeks ago. We had a TikTok that we made. We have a TikTok account. We don't. We have never talked about our TikTok account here on the podcast, but we are today. Here's a secret. Xander and I don't have TikTok on our phones. Neither one of us has Tick tock. We're a little bit scared of TikTok, the privacy concerns. But our team has it. So they help post all of our TikToks.

We record videos. I do. I recently discovered that I could log into TikTok on my laptop.

So I still will choose.

I'm in there. Dropping a comment, dropping a comment every now and then.

No, I'm a little bit scared. So we have a TikTok account. We have not had very much success with it because TikTok is very conservative. They've pulled a lot of our content down. They do not like it when you say any sort of sexual related words. So we've had to try all the tricky things of like now instead of S instead of sex. Like S E x, it's dollar sign ex, you know, stuff like that. Or segs S e G G S. It's like we all know what we're talking about but TikTok won't let us. So we've had very, very slow growth on TikTok because they just keep pulling our content and telling us our account is suspended. But we keep trying and we finally did it. We had a TikTok that went viral at this point that we are recording it. It has 7.67 million views, which is bananas. And brought a whole bunch of new people into our community. And this particular TikTok was about the bristle reaction.

This particular TikTok was also Vanessa's very first foray into the realm of get ready with me videos.

Get ready with me. Yeah, it was pretty fun actually. I'm like, well, I already have to wash my face and put on my skincare so might as well do some work. I know you same time.

You love a good multitask.

It was a good multitask. So let's play this TikTok for you so you can see what it's all about. Get ready with me while I talk about why my husband and I make out every single night. Hey there. I'm Vanessa Marin. I'm a licensed psychotherapist specializing in sex. So here's how it usually goes in long term relationships. When you first start dating each other, it's like you can't keep your hands off each other, right? You're always touching, always kissing. But the pattern for most people is that once they get into a long term relationship, they really stop touching and kissing so much. And eventually it gets to the point where the only time that you're like really kissing each other is when you're trying to initiate sex. But what happens for a lot of people, especially if you're the lower sex drive partner in the relationship, is that you start becoming avoidant of any sort of touch or kissing. Like if you're not wildly in the mood, you don't want your partner to kiss you and think that it's going to lead to more are right. But this only further intensifies that connection that kissing has to or is supposed to lead to sex. And this can even lead to what I call the bristle reaction, which is when you become so hyper vigilant to your partner's touch or kisses that you actually can feel yourself bristle whenever your partner comes in to try to make contact with you. So the intent behind our nightly makeout Sessions is to actually break the connection between making out and sex. We wanted to give ourselves lots of experiences where we were making out and it wasn't leading to sex. So our rule is that we have to make out every single night and there has to be some tongue contact. So if we're really exhausted, it can be very fast. It doesn't need to take much time or much energy, but there has to be some contact of the tongues. Most nights, though, we prefer to stay, stretch the makeout session out to just be like a minute or two. This nightly routine has taken the pressure off of us to have to have sex if we start making out. And it's really allowed us to enjoy making out just for the sake of making out. So the TikTok was really supposed to be all about this makeout thing, but people really latched onto the Bristle Reaction in particular. I just kind of mentioned it in there and there were so many comments from people saying, wait a minute, hold on a second. Like this is exactly what's happening to me. Nobody's ever talked about this before. What is this all about? So I made a whole bunch of like follow up TikToks going into more depth about it. But this idea really, really took off and we ended up getting so many calls from different media publications like big ones like Newsweek, Popsugar, Scary Mommy, like all kinds of places wanted to interview us and feature the TikTok. I think at this point probably there's been like 10 to 15 different news articles written exactly like about the Bristle Reaction and about this TikTok, which is just wild. We've never gotten this level of attention before about like one particular concept that we've created.

Yeah, I mean like we get DMS from people like calling out random places where they're hearing about the TikTok. Like we got one the other day that was like, oh, like my. My partner was driving through rural Australia and listening to their favorite radio station and like the hosts talking about your makeout. Tick tock. And then like another one of like, you know, the. A big like sex and relationship podcast in the UK is talking about it. So it's just, it's really cool that, you know, all over the place there have been some, some pretty hilarious headlines written about it too. Definitely a lot of people misunderstanding maybe a bit of the intent of it. Like, sex therapist has one crazy rule that her husband has to follow. I'm like, whoa, where did you.

Strict rule.

Yeah.

One strict rul. Strict rule.

Yeah. Like, like somehow, somehow, like it's being taken out on me. I don't know where that came from. It one is not a strict rule.

Those are the places that like didn't bother to interview us. They just like popped up an article and then.

No, I, Yeah, I mean, I think you, you know, you've hit a nerve when there's just like a stream of weird headlines coming out about something like, yeah, people like, people just want to get that article out. They like have no interest in even trying to reach out a quote. They're like, nope, we just gotta, gotta get this out there.

Yep. So we decided we had to make a podcast episode specifically about the Bristle Reaction. We want to talk about it, what it is, why it happens, and of course, most importantly, how to fix it.

Yeah, because unfortunately it's, it's hard to, you know, hard to do that justice, you know, in a short form video on TikTok. As much as, you know, there are literally thousands of comments on there being like, how do I fix the Bristle Reaction? Nope, we can talk about it like two minutes at a time. But you know, it's more than a two minute issue.

Yes.

But first it's the review of the week. Saving my relationship heart. Your podcasts, Instagram courses and book are game changers. I've been with my husband for 14 years, starting when we were 16 years old. And we have done a lot of growing with each other, but also individually in that time. But I would say we have done the most growing in the last 7ish months of finding you guys. It's not even just our sex life that has improved. Littles are one and a half and three. But also just everyday life. Our communication has been so much better and using the realistic tips, it saved our relationship when we were in a low, low place. So thank you and I always look forward to what I learned from you guys. Oh, that is so nice.

I think that you left something out. Actually. It was. Thank you, thank you. But there's also something.

Thank you, thank you. There is also a old School Web 1.0 version smiley emoji. So. But no, what I was, what I was starting to say when you reminded me that I missed an emoji is that I think this is, this is what we, we talk about a lot. Is that what we do is so much more than just about sex. Yeah, it's that what it is is that sex can be one of. Can feel like one of the most challenging things to communicate about. It can feel like one of the most challenging nuts to crack and the idea is that if you can crack this nut, if you can communicate about this kind of stuff, like, imagine what else you can communicate about, because, like, the reality is it's a lot easier to talk about the everyday stuff. So once you get comfortable with this stuff, you're comfortable talking about anything, which is amazing.

Yes. This is so sweet. Thank you so much for taking the time to leave this review. And you might not know, but we have a weekly giveaway for review of the week. The reviews mean so much to us and they help the podcast grow. Like, get in front of new people, they encourage new people to listen. So if you leave a review on Apple Podcasts and all you have to do is go to the main Pillow Talks page, scroll down to the bottom, and you'll see the spot to leave the review. If you leave that review, you will be entered into our weekly giveaway every week going forward. If you hear your review read, just email us@infomtherapy.com with the username that you left the review with and you will get your choice of one of four masterclasses. Absolutely. For free. Okay, so let's talk about what the Bristle reaction is. So I mentioned it a bit in the TikTok, but the bristle react is the feeling that you have in your body when your partner comes in to touch you. Whether it's an actual just touch, a hug, maybe a kiss that you feel your body bristle up in reaction. Like, you don't want to be touched in that moment.

Like a big, like, extreme tensing.

Yeah, it feels. Feels tense. It's kind of similar to if you've ever had a stranger, like, get a little too close to you, like, they kind of invade your personal space. You can feel yourself getting tense in that same way. It's like, ooh, like, no, stay away from kind of feeling. But this is obviously with your partner, presumably somebody that you love and trust and at least at some point in your relationship, have really enjoyed touching you. So it can be this very confusing reaction, like, how do I love my partner so much? I trust that they're, you know, not some creepy stranger invading my personal space, but yet I'm reacting so strongly to even some very basic touch in the moment. So a lot of people will say, you know, yeah, even if my partner just, like, grazes my back or puts their hand on my shoulder, like, I can feel myself really tense up. We polled our Instagram audience and 84% of people said that they have experienced the Bristle reaction.

Pretty universal.

I mean, That's a lot. 84%. That's pretty wild.

Yeah, I mean, I've experienced it, and I'll talk about that later.

Yeah. So I came up with the concept of the Bristle Reaction, and I decided that I really wanted to have a specific name for it because it is so common. I've talked about it with so many clients. Whenever we talk about it on Instagram, people really resonate with it. And I think that there's a big power in naming things. Like the fact that it's actually called the Bristle Reaction. Like, it makes it feel more serious, more legit in a certain way, versus.

Like, the thing that happens when they touch you and it doesn't feel good.

Yeah, exactly. So I wanted it to have a certain name. I think there is that. The power in naming things. There's this feeling of, like, not feeling alone in it. Like, oh, wow, enough people experience this too, that it actually has a name to it. I'm not just this one lone weirdo that it's happening to. So for me, the word bristle felt like it just perfectly encapsulated it. I was thinking for a moment about calling it, like, the porcupine effect or something like that. Like, I was trying to think of other things that have bristles or that kind of get their hackles up.

Yeah.

But I settled on the Bristle Reaction, and I like it.

Yeah, we. I mean, actually, Vanessa and I, on a related tangent, we. We say sometimes we talk about our getting our hackles up, but we. We refer to that in a different way. It's like if we are a little easy to. To anger or annoyance.

Yeah. If we're getting annoyed with each other. Hackles are actually. I don't know, like, the tech. It's like the scruff on your dog's back. On a dog's back. Like, when dogs are uncomfortable or they're getting ready to fight, or they just trying to, like, get another dog to back down. Like, the little fur on their backs will go up straight, and that's, like, body language that they're showing.

Like, back off.

So it could be the hackle. The hackle effect. Yeah, the hackle react, react.

Hackle reactles.

The porcupine effect is pretty cute. I liked that, too.

Could be a little too cute.

Yeah, it was a little too cute. And also, Emily Nagoski, in her book Come as yous Are, which is. Is such a great book, she has this whole metaphor that she uses called the sleepy hedgehog. It was kind of like a way to describe feelings, and I Was like, this feels a little too similar to, like, I don't want to take the porcupine and she's got the hedgehog, so.

Well, yeah, I mean, yeah, a similar thing, but very different concepts of the. That can get confusing pretty quick.

Yeah, her concept is all about, like, ways for us to navigate difficult navage. Navigate. Where did I get navig. Navigate difficult emotions. So, yeah, totally different concepts, but. But I went with the bristle reaction. I like it. People seem to like that name. Like, we know you just say the word bristle and you have, like, a felt sense of it. It's a. What is that? Onomatopoeia. Is that a thing?

Yeah, onomatopoeia is a thing. I would not say that this is an onomatopoeia. Onomatopoeia is like, boom.

Oh, yeah.

The sound. The sound of the word describe. Like.

Yeah.

Is in a way, descriptive of what it is. Unless you're like, rehearsal.

That's really weird. No, you just. You hear that word and you have a felt sense of, like, what it feels like to bristle in your body. So it is. I would say it's kind of like a cousin to being touched out. So if you've never heard us talk about being touched out, this is not a term that I came up with. I actually don't know who came up with this, but it's this experience that primary caretakers have when they've had, like, kids holding onto them all day. Or it could be from super clingy pets or an adult that you're, you know, caretaking. But if you've had. Had just physical touch all day long, this feeling that you get where it's like your body is just done being touched and so you're burnout. Yeah. You're hypersensitive to any touch. It's like, I just need my body to be my own, to belong to myself for a second. So it kind of like they can go hand in hand. If you're touched out and, like, your partner's maybe coming home at the end of the day, you've been touched out all day long and they're trying to touch you, like, you'll very quickly and easily go into the bristle reaction because you're like, get away from me, buddy. Like, I don't want anybody needing anything else from my body right now.

Yeah, I mean, I imagine that, yeah, there could be. There's definitely could be some overlap between bristle reaction and being touched out, where it's, like, not immediately clear which it Is however, you can absolutely have the bristle reaction when being touched out is like, not. Not in the picture. Like.

Yeah. So you could have been like, home alone all day, or you're at your job, nobody's touc touching you there.

Yeah. You don't have kids.

Yeah. And you come. You know, you and your partner rejoin together at some point in the day, and they touch you. You haven't been touched all day, but you'll still bristle. So they are different. But I. I think cousins is like, oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely. And I think, you know, right now, touched out. You know, the word touched out is. Is having a moment, so to speak. Like. Yeah, it is. You know, all over social media. It's one of those things where I think the vast majority of people know what it means. They hear that word, they know exactly what you're talking about. Kind of like, you know, mental load is starting to be talked about. The bristle reaction, I think, wasn't quite talked about that much. And then, boom, 7.7 million views later. I think we are doing our part and trying to, you know, get people aware of, you know, this is a thing. This is a real thing with real serious consequences.

It is also cousin to the ick. So a lot of the reporters who've been calling me to do interviews have been asking about the ick. So if you've never heard that. Yeah, if you've never heard that term before. Xander hadn't.

I only did. I think we were watching the Bachelor this. This last season and not the greatest season of the Bachelor, but. Yeah, the. The. The girls were talking about the ick, and I was like. I mean, it was one of those things. It was kind of a onomatopoeia in a way, where it was like, I didn't need anyone to explain to me what it was. They were just kind of in context. I could figure it out. Oh, okay. They're just naming that sort of feeling when you are, you know, hanging out with someone or starting to date someone, and then it's just like, oh, this just doesn't feel right.

Okay. Yeah. So the ick is like. It's more of a dating term. So it's when you discover something about that person that just really turns you off. It makes you feel icky. You're no longer attracted to them. For a lot of people, it's like, oh, I got the ick. And that was it. Like, no, we're not going on any more dates. I left the date in that moment. That kind of thing.

Yeah. Because I think very often, like when you're dating someone. Yeah, you, you learn something new about someone and like, maybe one or two things happen. If, if you're not into the thing that you find out, you might be be like, huh, I don't really agree with that. I don't really like that. But you're able to kind of set it aside and move on. Like, it doesn't impact everything else you know about that person or you hear, you learn one thing, you see one thing, they do one thing, and then all of a sudden it's like your entire experience has been colored by that. And all of a sudden you're just like, oh, God. Like, it just doesn't feel good.

So the ick happens more with dating, whereas the bristle reaction happens more in long term relationships.

But I can, I can see where people could kind of get better this confused. Because the bristle reaction, if it's something that keeps happening to you, like you're having a visceral reaction, you're having what feels like an ick reaction essentially to someone that you really love. And so I could, I could see how this could be a confusing experience. You're like, God, kind of feels like that thing where I'm just like this person that I, I think I love. I. I really think I love them inside. But then like, they're doing something and I'm just like, like feeling super repulsed by it. And that could be a confusing experience. Like, well, what does this mean? Are we not right? Is something wrong? Like, am I just grossed out by them entirely? So I think it's, you know, hopefully, if you're hearing this and you've had this experience, hopefully, it can be powerful to know these are two very different things. Like the. Because, because with the bristle reaction, it could be like, yeah, right now doesn't feel good. But then like an hour later, you know, you could be like, like having a conversation with them and be like, totally happy and in love and into them. So it's. Yeah, it's not like, oh, you're just completely unattracted to them entirely.

And also the ick can happen with zero touch too. Like, it doesn't have anything to do. So I would say, like, the ick is a distant second cousin to the bristle reaction. Okay, so what the heck causes the bristle reaction? How do we get to this place where we love this person so much and yet we are recoiling from even the most simple touch? So there are three main causes of the bristle reaction. The first one is being touched in ways you don't like. So we turned to Instagram. We asked our audience, is there a certain kind of touch that evokes this reaction for you?

And I'm gonna. Is it fair for me to assume that this is being touched in ways you don't like? Especially, like, over long periods of time? Like. Cause I think that a lot of this is, like, after years and years of kind of being like. Like, I don't. I don't really love it when they do that, but I'm not really gonna say anything. It's sort of like this is kind of what happens in the long term of, like, kind of setting aside your discomfort with something, and then all of a sudden you're like, oh, God, don't. Can't have it.

I think it can be both. For most people, it's definitely like, you know, you've been touched this way for a long time, and maybe you never really liked it, but now at this point, you're like, oh, my God, don't touch me. Like that. But it could also just be in the moment, your partner does something that maybe they don't normally do, and it's just this really gr. Oh, God, no. I don't like that.

All right, so here are a couple answers that people gave. Gripping me too tightly. Boob honk or random boob grab? I can't scream. Get the out fast enough.

Oh, yeah, Not a fan of the boob honk.

Whenever he tries to pull me in to make out or runs his hands over my body too lingering. I'm guessing, like, lingering touch.

Yeah, you can, like, we're going to talk about this in a minute, but when your partner just, like. Like, I don't. I don't know how to describe it. Like, you. You can know when there's, like, a little bit of, like, oh, I'm just touching you to say hello, versus, like a. I'm lingering, trying to convey that I want something more from this touch. It's like, I can identify. This is really interesting, actually. Like, I can identify with you the second that your touch starts to turn into wanting something more. And we will get into this dynamic because this is a big part of it, but I'm so hyper aware of. Of that. Wait, I do have a question for you, though. Just going back to one of the earlier answers that you read. Yeah, the random boob grab. Like, does it genuinely. I know that, like, you like boobs because you don't have boobs, and they're, like, novel and exciting, and boobs Are fun. I will give you that for sure. So, okay, I do not like the random boob grab. I do not like the boob honk. And you're very respectful about those boundaries. But if. If I just said, like, babe, you can. You have free reign, touch my boobs whenever you want, it's never going to bother me. Like, like, would you just be grabbing them all day?

Now, that's a really good question, because I could see a world in which I'm like, hell, yeah. Game on, baby. And then, like, after doing it, like five times, I'm like, okay, this is kind of boring. I think that maybe there's some power in the, like, I know. I know that I shouldn't really be doing it that much. And then everybody, I was like, I just can't help myself.

Interesting. So because the boobs feel off limits, then it activates some little.

It's just this little part of me that's like, oh, just gonna grab them.

But if. If you were allowed to, the novelty of it would. Would lose. You'd lose the novelty of it quickly.

There's only one way to find out.

Oh, God. I'm not sacrificing myself to this experiment. All right?

No, but. And I'm saying I don't want to either. I don't want to. All right, let's. Let is. Let's continue on the list. All right. When they're too playful, I need sweet and gentle. Or on the other hand, when he touches me too gently, I get bad shivers. Those are two different responses. Yeah, two different, by the way.

So we can see there's a lot of different kinds of touch, and there's no.

Yeah. And there's no, like, one thing. Like, oh, because, you know, someone might be like, oh, well, it's just that, oh, you. You shouldn't touch. You know, you shouldn't touch people in this way or that way. And no, it's. It has nothing to do with that. It's like, you know what. What might have bothered one person is totally going to be game on for another person, including the boo bonk, which we do get DMS about. Some boob owners love a boob honk.

Like two of you.

Yes.

Okay, so here are some other answers. Ass smack. Random nipple flicks when he goes for my earlobe, when he boings my side boob every time I need a legitimate hug. That sounds like the kind of energy you were talking about earlier.

Like a slap.

Yeah, like a little boing. Like to make it kind of. You have. Do not make that Face. You have done that to me for sure. You're super into side boob.

I am. However, I love hugs so much. I could not think of spoiling a hug by going for side boob when instead of side boob, I can get my arms all the way around you and squeeze you into me. That sounds so much better.

Someone said, coming at me with his tongue already out to make out.

Ew.

Do not like that one. That gives me the ick. And this one was a really interesting response. When they aren't present in their own body. But touch me, like, mindless touching, I think I can. You don't, like, come up to me and just start doing that, but I can definitely tell when there's not, like, any presence behind your touch.

I'm imagining maybe, like, sitting next to each other on the couch and, like, I'm like. Like, let's say I'm, like, scrolling on Instagram on my phone or something like that. And I just am, like, kind of, like, reaching out and, like, touching you or something. Like, it kind of almost is like, oh, like something I'm doing subconsciously for my own comfort.

Yeah.

It has nothing to do with. With caring about you or any kind of connection that I'm wanting to develop between us.

Also, the timing of the touch matters, too. So here were some other responses that we got.

When I'm stressed and trying to accomplish something or get a task off my plate.

Yeah. It's this feeling of, like, I'm already doing stuff and, like, you're interrupting me, or my, you know, my tolerance is low.

Yeah. Or when he does it in front of other people, like, don't grope me in front of my mom.

Oh, that is a big fat no for me, too.

Yeah. Or, I mean, I guess what I'm thinking. Thinking about is like, you know, this. It gets into manipulative territory, too, where it's like, say, like, you're in a fight about something, or you're kind of in a bit of a disagreement, but, like, you have a date to go to dinner with some friends. And so then it's like, as soon as you're in front of other people, then you're like, oh, I. I can touch you and pretend that we're a happy couple.

Oh. Oh, God. That gives me the heebie jeebies.

I hate that unexpected touch that feels sexual. And this person says they're a trauma survivor, so I think that is a very, very real thing for anyone that's been through any kind of trauma like that.

Oh, of course. Yeah. The Hyper vigilance to touch. That's a classic reaction that people have who have endured trauma and then finally.

Pretty much anything if I'm already touched out from our child.

That's what we talked about a little bit earlier. Before we go any further, let's tell you a little bit more about Green Chef. So we have been getting Green Chef for probably close to a year now, right? Like, we, we love it. We get it every single week. We love.

We got some coming today, but we.

Made a mistake a couple weeks ago. We forgot to update. Like, you get to go into the app, you pick from all the meals. There's so many different meals. Like, there's a ton of variety, so many options to choose from. So you get to go in the app and pick which ones you want.

Oh, yeah. I mean, we pick from the gluten free options. We just filter it for gluten free. There's a ton of options. So if you aren't gluten free, there's even more options. Like it is. Yeah, there. It's so many.

So we forgot to pick our meals. We got three randomly assigned meals. Completely our mistake. Nothing on Green Chef. And we were pretty bummed though, because we're like, oh, the meals we wanted, like, the ones that we were going to pick were so good. And like, now we're getting these ones that we didn't want. We were pretty bummed, to be completely.

Honest, for a second.

And then we got the delivery. I swear, you guys, we, like, made the meals. They weren't our first choice, but we were both like, I think this is our favorite week of Green Chef that we've ever had. These weren't even the ones that we wanted, but they were so good.

Yeah, it turns out they're better at picking for us than we are.

So we have teamed up with Green Chef. They are the number one meal kit for eating well. You can go to greenchef.com pillow60 and use code PILLOW60 to get 60% off plus free shipping. Like we mentioned, they have options for every lifestyle. You can get gluten free, vegan, vegetarian, Mediterranean. Super convenient and easy to follow. The meals take like 30 minutes or less to prepare. The food is so good, we are using our own money every single week to buy Green Chef. That's how into it we are. So we are very happy to recommend it to you as well. And if you want to give it a try, just go to greenchef.com pillow60 pillow60 and use the code pillow60 to to get 60% off plus free shipping. So we also asked our community, what do you usually do when you feel yourself bristle? We were curious to know, like in those moments when you're feeling it, like what's your, what's your actual reaction? By far and away, the number one response was endure. I just forced myself to endure it. And specifically that word too. And that was pretty terrible to read.

Yeah, that's. Yeah, I feel sad. Feel sad reading that. I mean, it's kind of like, yeah, nobody, nobody wants to be just enduring.

That's, I mean, it's an awful feeling to have in the moment. You're feeling your body just recoil and so to force yourself to endure that touch that you're really not wanting in the moment, like, like that's awful. That's a really, really awful experience to have. And unsurprisingly, it is just going to make the bristle reaction feel so much worse. Because when you're bristling, your body is sending you a message. Like your body is saying, I don't want to be touched. And if you are forcing your body to continue enduring that touch, like your body's message is going to get stronger and stronger, like, no, I don't want to be touched. Hey, no, I really don't. What the fuck are you. I don't want to be touched. So I don't know why your body is so high pitched, but you're just going to feel the bristle reaction stronger and more often if you are forcing yourself to endure it. So we will get back to this when we talk about how to fix it.

And I mean, eventually it also might manifest itself in other ways. Like maybe you raise your voice, you got into an argument or something. When we repress one emotion, eventually it will come out in the form of another emotion. And so, you know, it's like if you're, if you find yourself doing this, you can very likely identify some other things that might be happening, you might be doing or might be happening that you don't feel very good about. And there's a good likelihood those things are related. Your body is needing to release that in some way or another.

Okay, here are some of the other responses. Feel guilty, tense up and seethe inside.

Oh, yeah. So there, there's another thing that just the, the seething. So yeah, if you are enduring something that you don't want first you're gonna start to feel resentful and eventually, you know, you're gonna, you know, resentful. It's sort of like in that moment you're like, oh God, this. And then the seething is like even, you know, in a moment where it's not happening, you're just like, you can't stop thinking about it.

Cringe and grit my teeth, Feel annoyed yet obligated. I just stay quiet. I pull him away, tell him I'm not in the mood. So this is one rare response of somebody who stopped the touch. And then here was another interesting response. I put my hand on theirs and guide it to where I want it to be. So this is a very rare response. Like the vast majority of people, like we said, were enduring the touch in one way or another. But I liked this idea of like redirecting your partner in that moment.

Yeah, I mean, I think that that's great if you are, you know, maybe not in full bristle mode. Because I think that, you know, when you're, when you're full on in 100% bristle, you're not gonna be, there's not gonna be like, oh, just touch me over there. But this could be kind of a, you know, more of a. If it's a minor thing or it's like, okay, yeah, I just not happy with you grabbing the boo, but I would be happy with you, you know, grabbing my butt or something. Then it's like, okay, cool, let's, let's redirect. But I think that would be, that would be one that, that you would only want to try if you were open to another kind of touch.

Okay. So that was all for the first cause of the bristle reaction. Being touched in ways you don't like. The second cause is not enough. Non sexual touch.

Interesting. So the answer to the bristle reaction is actually more touch.

We will get to that in a, a moment. But this is what I was talking about in that original TikTok. You know, in long term relationships, we do tend to touch each other less and less and only in the lead up to sex or during sex. So we start making this connection. That touch means we're going to have sex or we're supposed to have sex. So if you're not having much touch outside of the bedroom, like, of course when you do get touched touched, and you've made that connection of like, oh, this means my partner wants us to have sex. Or with what I was talking about earlier, that lingering touch, you can sense that moment where it turns into, hey, I want something more out of this. Like you're gonna get bristly in that moment because you weren't wildly in the mood in that moment. Like if you're turned on, like ready to go and your partner comes to touch you, you're not gonna bristle.

Yeah. You're like, hell yeah, let's do, do this. Yeah, I'll touch you back.

Yeah. So that's number two. Not enough non sexual touch. You've made this connection that like touch creates this obligation or this pressure to have sex.

Yeah. Because it's so much easier to say no to touch, either verbally or physically by pushing away than it is to or I think this is like the, the false assumption that we make is like what our brain in a split second says is it's going to be easier to say no to the touch than it is for me to say no to the sex.

Yeah.

And because saying no to sex is, it's, you know, it's your. If you're ranking all these things, I think subconsciously we go, oh, no to sex. That's like a 10 out of 10 in terms of awkward, challenging, whatever. I will do anything in order to not have to do that, including completely, you know, cutting off my partner who I love from touch.

Yeah. So it's like, let me stop it now before it leads into that. It feels a little bit easier. Which is really overlaps a lot with the third reason for the bristle reaction, which is indirect sexual initiation. So if you and your partner are not initiating sex with your words, if you're just initiating it with physical contact, then that's exactly why you can tell when your partner has some sort of ulterior motive behind their touch. The touch that lingers once again.

Or you think they have an ulterior motive. I mean, I think that's the real challenge with, with non verbal or always non verbal sexual initiation is that, you know, you can very quickly get to a point where you go, oh yeah, they're for sure trying to initiate sex. I don't want to initiate sex. They're not, they're not saying anything. I'm not going to say anything back. I'm going to bristle. I'm going to push them away, whatever if it is. But the reality is you don't know. Like it might be that only 50% of the time they're actually trying to initiate sex. They might be actually trying to touch you because they love you. Yeah. But you don't know that.

So all three of these things are very interrelated. But it really leaves you with this experience of feeling on guard all the time. It's like your antenna are always up. Like, are they trying to initiate sex? Do they Want something like, what's going on? I got to shut it down as quickly as possible. And so it just creates this tension that's always in the body and very quick to come out in those moments. We also wanted to explore some of the gender dynamics that can come up around the bristle reaction. So to be clear, the bristle reaction, it does not discriminate. It can come up in any relationship of couples of any gender, any orientation. But we wanted to explore how this comes up in male, female relationships. So we asked our Instagram audience. Audience, if you're a woman in a relationship with a man, do you think you have the bristle reaction more often than your partner does? And if so, why do you think that's the case? So most respondents said that they felt like the woman does have the bristle reaction more often. One woman wrote, primary caretaker problems, like, I'm touched out due to kids. Another woman wrote, yes, because everyone needs me all the time, even if he's sitting right there. Yes, I initiated much less often. So he took any openness to touch as a good sign. This ties back into the initiation issues. If you're not initiating sex directly, then if you're, you know, letting your partner touch you, it's like, just so easy for them to think, like, oh, let me just, you know, I've got the green light. Let me go for it now.

It's now or never.

Someone else said his love language is touch. And that is my least loved love language. A little tongue twister there. And this was an interesting response. One woman wrote, yes, usually his touch is sexual, but not romantic. I think that.

Or like, for her. For her, it feels sexual. It doesn't feel romantic.

So when I was reflecting on these gender dynamics, there was one thing that I was thinking about. Like, as women, we are really socialized that our role around sex is to kind of be the gatekeeper. Like, we're supposed to put the brakes on. We're supposed to say no. We're supposed to slow things down, you know, and the role of men is supposed to be to like, to initiate, to push it further, to keep going, to get what you can.

Yeah, I mean, I think, like, the. The whole stereotype, you know, between men and women when it comes to having sex for the first time is like, the stereotype, at least is that, like, the guy's up for it whenever, and it's just like, when he's gonna lose his virginity, when is she gonna say yes? How long will it take before she says yes? What do we need to do in order for her to say yes. I think there's. Yeah, there's just this idea that it's like, yeah, it's. It's all on the woman whenever she's ready, because he is implicitly ready.

Yeah. But even beyond, you know, the first time that you're having sex or the first time you're having sex with a new partner, like, still those dynamics are in place. Like, we've talked about this before in the podcast, this idea that men are supposed to be the initiators. And, you know, so I just think that there's this instinctual reaction that so many of us women have. And I'll just speak for myself here. Like, there have been times, even when you've initiated sex, really clearly I'm, like, on board with it, but I still feel this, like, little moment of hesitation. And I think that's from just years and years of being socialized. Like, I'm supposed to put the brakes on things. And so even now, now that I'm, like, following the rules, you know, we're married and we're in this committed relationship, like, there's still that reaction that comes up for me sometimes of like, oh, I'm not supposed to let this go. Like, you're my freaking husband. But, like, I still, you know, get this. This feeling. And it's not about my own desires. It's like this really deep instinctual feeling. So I think that can be part of it. And another thing that can be part of it is I think this is an invitation to ask yourself, like, are you saying no in other areas of your relationship? If you feel like you always have this knee jerk. No. React. Attraction to sex or to touch. Sometimes our bodies can, like, convey a message that we're struggling to convey in other areas. So that could be a whole other episode here. But I just wanted to kind of label that, that it is an invitation to take a look at. Am I saying no in other areas of this relationship?

So, yeah, it's kind of like, okay, well, this. This is one area where I feel like I can exert some control role. Like, you know, okay, I can. I can push away his hand. I can say no to the touch. I'm allowed to say it here. And so I'm going to kind of go over the top saying it here because I would like to be saying it in other areas. I don't feel comfortable. I think for most people that there's not an explicit connection there. You're not, like, thinking that what I just said, but that is very Often what's coming up is that. That that knee jerk jerk is just. It's because it's like, you know, you're probably seething about other areas of your life that you're like, oh, God, I wish I could do something about this. I wish I could say something about this. And so then your body just kind of makes the choice for you, goes, oh, well, I can. I can do something about this. So I will.

And again, to be clear, the bristle reaction can happen to someone of any gender. So actually, why don't you tell us a little bit about your story of how you were little Porcupine. Porcupine?

Porcupine. Well, yeah, I mean, God, like the. The bristle reaction, you know, I. It took me many, many years. I mean, really, only very recently have I been able to identify this as the bristle reaction. But honestly, I started feeling this really early on in my relationship with Vanessa. And I think if I can even think back further, I definitely felt the same thing with the exact same dynamic in another relationship relationship that I was in, in college. And for me, it wasn't so much about, like, Well, I guess, yeah, it was about the sexual initiation and feeling like, no, I don't want to have sex right now. But it. For me, it was a little more than that. It was. It was this combination of, like, I don't know if I can perform around sex. And so I don't want to create the possibility of maybe be I'm not up for it or, you know, I guess I. I do end up having to say no later because I don't feel like I can do it. So what would happen with. With Vanessa and me? Usually this would come up, at least initially, this would come up after we had already had sex. So we would have had sex. We would be cuddling in bed, which I love, and then we would start kissing. Because, you know, when you're cuddling very often you start kissing and, you know, Vanessa would be kissing me with more and more tongue, or this is my experience, because the reality is I was also giving her the tongue, too. But, like, my experience would be like, I would really just like to cuddle here and then fall asleep soon and then. And my experience would be, well, Vanessa's coming in, coming in hot with that tongue, and, man, she's like, you know, it feels like the intensity of these kisses are going up. And I would be like, well, God, like, she must be wanting to have sex again. And like, I just did it. And despite me, you know, being a 2223 year old virile man or whatever. Like, I'm in the middle of the refractory period and I don't like, I don't want to have it again right now. And I would just get super in my head of like, what am I going to do? Like, this is obviously leading to more. Or, you know, I might have even felt this obligation, like, oh, well, I'm supposed to take it to the next level because that's my job. Job. She starts showing me that she's into it, like by giving me the tongue. And then like, I'm supposed to take it the next step, but I don't think I can. And yeah, so I would start to kind of what Vanessa would notice is she would be like, her experience is that I would be, I would kiss her off. I would be kind of, I would be trying to like, do a kiss that would result in like our mouths closing. Or maybe I would pivot towards more of just like aha or a cuddle. And Yeah, I never said anything about it. And I mean, I feel horrible. I feel really bad about that because, you know, then she would be like, she would make a comment every now and then if, like, oh, like you're kissing me off. And then I would try to explain, I would try to convince her how I wasn't. And that was very gaslighty. And I'm sorry.

Thank you. It's interesting to talk about this now too, because looking back at those times, like, I, I don't think I was trying to go for an immediate round two, and I definitely didn't have this expectation that like, you had to do it.

Yeah.

And it's iron. So it's like I wasn't even going for the thing that you thought I was going for. And it's also ironic and difficult because then you ended up kind of closing yourself off to post sex intimacy, which actually is one of your favorite, favorite things.

Oh, yeah, I know.

And which, to be brutally honest, is like something we don't really do a ton of anymore. Like, we kind of broke that pattern. Like, it, it created a new pattern of like, oh, this is getting really uncomfortable for us to like, hang out and continue, like cuddling and making out and extending the intimacy. And we never really, like, got back on board with that train.

Yeah, well, well, huge opportunity now. I've got some wheels turning in my head. Yeah, I mean, we were just talking about this before we started recording and. Yeah, I mean, this is one of those things. I, I, if I, if I could go back I so wish that, you know, knowing what I know now, that I could do this differently. Because, yeah, I mean, like, if we had just been able to have. If I had just been capable of having a conversation about it of, like, oh, like, I'm. I'm telling the story that you kissing, you know, you kissing me with this tongue means that you are wanting more. You're wanting to go for round two. Like, is that what is actually going on? And I think very likely you would have said no. Like, hey, I just. I love making out with you. It makes me happy, makes me feel connected to you. And that would have felt so good to me because I like making out with you and I like connecting with you as well. Well, so. Because I did not want there to be any possibility of emasculation, of me feeling like she wants something from me, and I can't give it to her because I'm not ready or able to right now. And I don't want there to be any possibility that I might be exposed as being a man who has a refractory period. Is it totally normal and natural that literally every guy has. I mean, God. Odd. Yeah. I mean, that was. I mean, that's what it's like. That. That's how. That's what it's like being socialized as a man. And I think so many guys would agree with that. Of, like, oh, that I'm sure, like, 99 of men listening to this have been in that situation sometime before of being like, oh, am I supposed to be doing something now that I don't feel up to doing? But I can't. Can't say no. Don't want to say no, because that would be contrary to what I'm supposed to do. Yeah, like, it's tough. It's tough. I wish. I wish that we weren't socialized that way. Yeah, I wish I could go back and do it again.

So let's transition into how to resolve this. What do we do to fix this? If you are listening to this episode and thinking, oh, my God, I do this all the time. So our first piece of advice. Advice is to share with your partner the ways that you actually like to be touched. This is such an interesting topic. It's a perfect example of one of those questions or one of those topics that seems so obvious, but so few people have actually had a conversation about it.

Yeah, I mean, I think people would just go, well, this isn't something that we would ever even need to talk about. Kind of like. Like kissing or something. Like, oh, well, you just know how to. You just kiss. There's a way to kiss. And you just kiss. Kiss. Why would we ever talk about that?

So we have an exercise in our book, Sex Talks, which. Oh, my God, I forgot to mention at the beginning of this episode. Like, the bristle reaction is in Sex Talks. Oh, yeah, There's a big description of it. You know, talking about how it comes up, all of that. So go check out Sex Talks. But we also, in Sex Talks, have this exercise called the Touch Maps exercise, where you are really getting clear on, like, your favorite places and ways to be touched. And when we were writing the book, Xander and I did this exercise together, and even 15 years together of a sex therapist and her regular dude husband who talk about sex all the time, who wrote a freaking book about it. I did not know your top ways of being touched. I was very surprised with your answers. And also brutal honesty. I have forgotten your answer. So we have to revisit this.

I'm so glad you said that, because I was about to be like, like, huh. So what were my answers? Because I don't remember.

Have to revisit it.

So, hey, here's another good piece of advice. I mean, because, look, this is the reality, is that we all, like, touch in different ways. And even when we share with each other in a pretty formal way how it is, you're gonna forget because that's not your own lived experience.

But you forgot too. It's just like we just kind of.

No, no, that's what I mean is that, yeah, we both forgot even though we'd done the exercise. So that's. That's a. It's just a reminder to people. It's. Don't just do the exercise once. Don't just have, you know, the sex talks once. Like, do them over and over. You gotta have repetition to create those habits.

Okay, so tell me, what is one of your favorite places to be touched and the way you like to be touched there? Not your penis. Damn it.

On. I like. I like it when you kiss my neck.

Oh, I also like that quite a bit. But I will do a different one. I like it when you lightly tickle my back. That's not a surprise.

It's not a surprise. Also, the top of your neck gives.

Me shivers just thinking about it. So that's a great exercise to do. Definitely pick up sex talks to help you guys do it and revisit this. Have this conversation often. So. So I think if your partner knows the places that you actually like to be touched, like, we all Want to give our partners pleasure and make our partners feel good. So if your partner knows your favorite places, like, they're gonna wanna go for those. It feels like easy wins.

Especially if you give them positive reinforcement when they do touch the good areas. You know, if you're essentially giving negative reinforcement for doing the boob honk and then super positive reinforcement for, you know, say, like, the nape of the neck scratch, they're gonna be like, oh, hell yeah. I wanna do the thing that I know is gonna elicit a good response.

Yes. Okay. Another thing that I wanna mention here is you get to have boundaries around your own body. So seeing the word endure over and over and over again when we ask people what they do when they experience a bristle reaction, it really broke our hearts. And we just wanted to give that reminder. Like, if you don't want to be touched, you don't need to be touched. Like, just because you're in a relationship with your partner does not give them complete access to your body whenever they want to touch it. Like, it's your body. You get to have some boundaries around it. So especially if you're somebody who has been in intense bristle reaction for a long time, or if you're somebody who has experienced any sort of sexual abuse or boundary violation, like, really allowing yourself to lean into those boundaries can be so helpful in eliminating the bristle reaction. So you can even set up some temporary rules to help you guys get past this. So one idea would be you can have your partner ask permission to touch you. So you could say, okay, I wanna try a little experiment just for the next two weeks, or something like that. Like, when before you touch me, can you please ask for my permission? And you will mess up. Your partner's gonna touch you and be like, oh, my God, I forgot. But I think just trying something out like that can be really beneficial. Or you could say, for the next two weeks, I'll be the one to initiate touch. But, you know, so only when I touch you, then can you touch me back. So just. Just some way to give yourself more control and for you and for your body to recognize. Like, I'm protecting my body, I am having boundaries. I'm taking care of my body. So that can be a really beneficial thing to try. If you are experiencing being touched out on top of the bristle reaction, One thing that can also be beneficial is creating a little bit of transition time before your partner touches you. So if you've been, let's say, here's a classic example, like, you're the Stay at home parent, you've been touched all day long. Your partner comes home from their office job, because being a stay at home parent is a job. It's not working. But your partner comes home, maybe they need to take the kids for five, five, ten minutes while you just sit in a quiet, dark room by yourself.

Lock yourself in the closet.

Even if it's 60 seconds, you need to have a little bit of transition time, so that can be something beneficial too.

And to be clear, when I say lock in the closet, I know that sounds a little cheeky, but actually the reason we say that is because you want to deprive yourself of as many senses as possible during that time. So actually, actually putting yourself in a small, dark room is actually quite effective because it cuts off quiet. Yeah. Cuts off. Yeah.

Dark privacy.

Quiet, private. Yes.

Okay, I want you to talk about this next one because this was your idea when we were chatting about the episode over breakfast this morning.

Yeah. So I think that typically when the bristle reaction is coming up, there is the bristling partner and then there is the other partner who is the one initiating touch or initiating dating, whatever. Usually it's touch. So I think that it can be so powerful to have a conversation. The bristling partner can ask the touching partner.

Touching partner, Yeah.

I don't know what to call it. Wow. Can ask the, you know, the, the touching partner. Like, hey, like, what is it like for you, like, when. What is going on for you when you are initiating this touch that, you know, for right now is causing me to put bristle? Like, what. What is that like? I think it can be so valuable to understand what is going on for your partner when they're doing that. Because I think when we don't talk about it, the bristling partner tends to just assume they want sex. They just want sex. They want my body. Like there's nothing else that they want. And I don't want that. And I think it can be really powerful, you know, to, to hear. What is that like? Because what you might hear is like, like, hey, I'm. I miss you. I've missed you all day. Like, I'm reaching out to touch you because I feel connected to you when I'm touching you. I feel more emotionally close to you when I'm touching you. Or like, oh, like, I love, I love the way your hair feels. I love to pet your, you know, to pet your hair or, or something like that.

Or like, yeah, like, this is. It's my way of, like, coming back home to you. Like, Trying to let go of the stresses of the day and, and reconnect with, like, what's important, what I love the most.

Yeah. So I think it can kind of help humanize the experience of like, oh, like, this is, you know, you're peeling back the onion, like, oh, this is what is under the surface. And I think it can. That can help it feel a bit different. That can, that can kind of combat the. Your brain going immediately to, ugh, it's just sex. It's just sex.

I mean. Yeah. Going back to our example, like, if you had asked me in the moment, what, what does it feel like for you to keep, like, making out with me after we've finished? I would have said, you know, oh, it just, I feel connected to you. It feels like we're just extending this moment that we've shared, increasing the intimacy. And you would have heard me, like, you would have not heard me say, like, oh, I'm trying to have sex with you again. You know, it just would have been a really great opportunity to realize that we were actually wanting the same thing.

Yeah.

I mean, that's another powerful part of this conversation is like, you probably, you and your partner, like, you want to feel connected to each other, you want to feel important to each other, you want to feel like there's intimacy in your relationship. So it may not necessarily be that you're on wildly different pages, but because you're not talking about it, it feels like you're on wildly different pages.

Oh, yeah.

Okay. Another way to fix the bristle reaction is to have more non sexual touch throughout the day. This is exactly why we made that video about our little makeout sessions. This was our way of creating structure around having more non sexual touch. And for us, it was easier to do something every day. It made it turn into a habit a lot faster. Rather than like, if we had just set the intention of like, let's try to touch more throughout the day, we probably would have fallen off, like, you know, after a week or so. But because we made it this rule, we created a special little time. It was going to be every day at the same time of day. Like, that just made it so much easier to turn into a habit.

And since, since we're talking about this in more detail on the podcast, I want to be clear. When we say we turned it into a rule, we mean rule in the loosest possible sense.

It is now it is strict now it is.

It is a ritual that we do. I think people may have heard rule in the TikTok and Been like, oh, like Xander's getting in trouble if he doesn't do his makeup. And like that. That's not what it's about. It's something that we both enjoy, we both want to do. When we say it's a rule that for us, it's a fun way of like, it's just a fun way to remind ourselves of like, hey, like, let's have our skin to skin and let's. And let's kiss.

We haven't described that. We call it. We also call it skin to skin time.

Oh, yeah, we didn't describe that.

Yeah, so now that just sounds creepy that you just said skin to skin. It does sound okay. So actually we liked it.

We like to have our bodies touching each other.

What the rule is we have skin to skin contact, we're cuddling, and we have the makeout session as part of that. So I just kind of focused on the makeout session in the TikTok. But we, we thought it was funny to call it skin to skin time. So that's kind of like our little inside joke for it. But to be clear, it doesn't have to be making out like touch all throughout the day is going to be more helpful. It doesn't have to just be at night. It doesn't have to be a guideline or a rule rule. Like if you feel like you could say, like, let's just try to touch each other more often and you'll actually follow through. You can just go ahead and do.

That if you do want to spank each other. If you break the rule, then you can do that.

Oh, saucy. Okay. Another way to resolve the bristle reaction is to initiate sex more directly.

Hey, this is a good one. Whether, yeah. Whether or not you're in the midst of a bristle reaction, this is a good guideline 100% of the time.

AB so freaking lutely. So when you are more clear with your initiation, then it allows you to let your guard down. You're going to know, like, my partner will initiate with me clearly and directly. I'll know when they're initiating so I don't have to be so on guard for like, are they initiating? Are they trying to initiate now? Are they trying to initiate now? So initiation is a whole topic in and of itself. Fortunately, we do have a great masterclass. It's only $19 that will te you how to initiate in this way. We'll link to it in the show notes. Definitely make sure to check it out. But that is a huge piece of the bristle reaction.

Yes, initiate, don't assume.

And finally, talk to your partner about any other dynamics that might be getting in the way of you being open to their touch. So there are so many other reasons why you might be finding yourself bristling. Maybe there are just some relationship issues going on that you guys aren't talking about openly that you haven't addressed. Like, if things aren't in a good place between the two of you, of course you're gonna bristle up when they touch you. So this might be. I think we can sort of look at the. The bristle reaction as the canary in the coal mine.

Oh, yeah.

I hate that analogy. What's the difference? It's so dark. But, like, it's. It's your sign that, like, hey, hey, something is going on.

On.

So if you're feeling your body doing that, like, this might be a sign of. I really need to talk to my partner about, you know, this thing that's going on. Maybe it's resentment is coming up. Maybe it's even a mental load issue or a division of labor issue. Like, you're feeling like I'm doing everything, and my partner just gets to waltz in here and, you know, sit their ass on the couch and then slap at my boobs. Like, you know, there are a lot of different things that might be coming up for you that this is your invitation to start talking about them.

Yeah, I think it's a. It's a good sign that there's something else going on for you that you might be sitting on that it might be time to.

Time to talk about it.

Stand on up, let it out, and talk about it.

And finally, I just want to say again, because we saw that word endure so many times, Whatever you do, do not force yourself to endure your partner's touch. It's going to. To just destroy your relationship, your relationship with your body, your relationship with your sex drive, your sex life. Like, it's just such a terrible thing to put yourself through. So talk to your partner about this. Start to have these open conversations and, hey, pick up sex talks, because sex talks is absolutely going to gently guide you through these incredibly important conversations. Because at the end of the day, day, we all want physical intimacy. We all want emotional intimacy. We want to feel close to our partners. We want to feel like we're each other's safe places. Right?

Yeah.

And the bristle reaction, it's getting in the way of that. So we need to talk about it so we can create that connection, that intimacy that we're all creating.

All right, well, that's all for today's episode of Pillow Talks. Thank you so much for listening. Join us again next week when we celebrate our 100th episode.

I'm so excited. Can you believe a hundred episodes?

I cannot believe. Feels like just yesterday. Even though it doesn't really feel like yesterday. It feels like not that long ago that we got started. But, you know, no, it hasn't been because we're in our third location that we've been recording podcasts. But yeah, no, we have. We have something fun planned. We're not going to tell you quite yet. You're just going to have to find out.

Come back next week.

All right, see you later.

Love you. Bye. Remember when you said that a few weeks ago? Do love you.

Classic. Love you. And now you've said it again.

Bye.

Bye.