How to Have the Sex Life You Want feat. Psychotherapist Vanessa Marin | Ep. 245

Choking. A lot of people underestimate, like, how gently you can do it with spanking. A lot of people think that you should go soft.

No, we know also we people. I can't tell you how many times I have been softly spanked, and it really gives me the ick.

Hi, guys.

Hi, guys.

Welcome back to another episode of Girls Gotta Eat.

Welcome back.

We literally just did this.

Ten minutes.

We were below the line, and we had to get above the line.

I was in the middle of a story, and I was like, you hate this.

We just recorded for 20 minutes, and I was like, we have to stop. This is. It's not hitting. It's not right.

We were below the line. I feel like I try to help, and you're like, no. I'm like, we can do it tomorrow. No, I'm like, we can do Thursday. No, like, I guess do it now again.

We talked about this last week. I think about it all the time. Do you guys think about the line and below the line all the time?

Yeah, I think about all the time.

Or hovering right at the line.

Well, happy Thanksgiving week, guys. This is my favorite holiday because I don't have Christmas. And we hope you guys all have safe travels, and we'll give you guys lots of fun stuff to listen to while you're home with your family. If you don't want to talk to those people.

Yes. If you are with your family and you are just hiding out in your childhood bedroom and you hate everyone or you're sexting with your high school ex or whatever, please just do a confessional and tag me.

That would be so funny that somebody's, like, in their bedroom, and they're like, I just fucked my ex from high school, and they just tag you. And people are like, my mom is.

Driving me crazy, and then Raina.

Yeah. So if you want to complain, tag Ashley. You can tag me too.

Or if you want to, if you're masturbating in your childhood bedroom, just let me know.

Just tag Ashley only. No. Give no context. You're like, who's this girl you've tagged?

Tag us in your vibrator.

And then this is my favorite holiday of the year because you guys all tagged me in your Thanksgiving plate picks. So the beige or the better. All of your beige card picks, please tag me and everything. I will repost all of them. This is the day of the year that I lose followers. It's worth it. They all look worth it. I love it.

Actually, no. Okay. You know what? Listen, I'm not saying you should like rip off Jared. And I want to give credit to Jared Freed, the board lord, because for his judging boards going. But should you do plates? Because I do feel like it's this thing that like kind of is similar, but then there's these crazy outliers and there's really polarizing stuff. Like when it comes to cranberries.

Do you like the can of jelly? No.

With the ridge indentation? No. It's garbage.

You guys don't understand. I went to culinary school. I worked in restaurants. We'll get to the ads. I worked in restaurants my entire life. I worked for Danny Meyer. I worked for some really high end restaurants. My mom is a phenomenal cook. I'm a phenomenal cook. I love canned processed foods for Thanksgiving so much. Get out of here with your like artisan organic, like oyster stuffing, fresh cranberry sauce. People that make like a roast chicken. Get out of here. I want stovetop stuffing, the mashed potatoes. I just like fresh food.

Call me crazy.

You can fresh food at the other.

364, but my tastes don't change. So I don't like a gelatin that's been sitting in a warehouse for months.

I gotta be honest, I usually don't even eat it. I just like the way it feels on the.

Like Cindy Hesseltine's cranberries are second to none. There's. They're just on the stovetop. They're so good.

Yeah, just little cinnamon stick, little orange rind.

We don't do anything crazy like gourmet fancy. It's still standard stuff, but it's fresh food.

I don't want to be fresh at the other 364. I don't care. All right, we're going to thank some of our partners and jump right into it. So thanks to Babel for supporting Girls gotta eat. Babel's 15 minute lessons make it the perfect way to really learn a new language on the go. Right now, get up to 55% off your subscription when you go to babel.com GGE and this episode of Girls got to eat is sponsored by Living Proof. Living Proof has game changing formulas tailored to your concern including frizz, lack of volume and Curl definition. Get 10% off your first purchase at living proof.com GGE and use promo code GGELP.

Yes. And thanks to hello Tushy for supporting Girls Gotta eat. Black Friday is about capitalism. Brown Friday is about capitalism. Save on the shit you need anyway with up to 30% off hello Tushy bidets shop the biggest sale of the year starting Friday, November 25th. Stop holding it in by waiting on long shopping lines. Visit hellotushy.com GGE to save up to 30% off Tushy today with promo code Brown. Friday promo ends soon. And thanks to OCA for supporting girls.

Gotta eat.

OCA makes clean and ultra effective skin care and body care products. And right now, check out OCA's bestseller Minis Collection, the Perfect Gift, only available for a limited time. Get 10% off your first order sitewide with promo code GGE@osea Malibu.com.

Okay, we are going to talk about some sales stuff, but I would like to get this out of the way. If you are watching this and you're like, where's Azul? Let's acknowledge that he's not here.

People are just going to. They're going to tune out. No. So he'll be here in the second half. He comes in at halftime. Oh, we didn't even bother.

Well, I bothered. You didn't bother. I'm wearing. Oh, that's why you're changing.

That's why you changed. Listen, the jig is up. Sometimes we do the guest interviews before the intro because we like to keep the intros relevant and timely. You didn't even say, what are you changing to me?

You're living your life. What am I going to tell an adult what to do? I forgot. I was like, she's just doing what she wants. I don't care what you do. So now you guys know that I am wearing the same outfit a few days in a row. And Ashley changes. We have been trying to keep it.

Consistent, but I knew there would be a point where it was like, we give up.

Five weeks in.

Here's a little BTS for you guys. Sometimes we do do the whole episode of One, but sometimes we have stacked guest interviews. The guests come in and then, you know, as timely as we can, we like to do the intros. So they're fresh.

I just thought you were committed to the red sweatshirt and that's what you wanted to do. I wasn't going to challenge it. What did I wear in Vanessa's Bella?

Do you remember?

Wasn't a turt neck. We're down with turtlenecks.

Oh, it was that checked sweater. You guys are getting two sweaters for me today. If you're watching the YouTube, let me know which sweater you like for. I could have so easily put that on.

I'm wearing leggings. I really was. I was just like, she's just living. You know what I have in the bathroom Is my holiday show. My live holiday show outfit. I should put. I have the other one on.

Why do you have those here?

Bella picked them up from the tailor for me. Oh, okay.

I was wondering why they were here. Okay, so Azul's not here. I ended my tour, and I was gonna be gone for, like, five days, so I just had him go with them because I only had a week between that and Christmas or. Oh, my gosh. Between that and Thanksgiving when I was gonna go home for Thanksgiving. So this is that week in between that. I'm missing him. He's not here. I hate that he's not up here on the couch with us.

We have a replacement, though.

Yeah. George. We have a backup dog.

So if you guys are watching, you're gonna meet George. Bella's also here. This is Bella's dog, George.

This is.

He wish he was Azul's boyfriend. Oh, my God. He sat down.

Oh, my God.

I love you.

He doesn't. Does he like to be, like, on the couch?

Yeah.

Sit here.

Bella, can you bring the lint roller over with all of Azul's fur on it, maybe? George, him.

So. I miss him so much in my heart. Like, I feel like a part of me is missing. I hate being apart from him.

I actually really. I was walking over here. It's, like, kind of cold and nasty today, and I was, like, really looking forward to seeing him, and then I remembered he wasn't here.

Oh, it's okay.

Oh, my God. George, are you coming back?

So this. Yeah, this is a holiday week. I'll be with my family. You'll be with your family?

Yeah.

But I just came back from. I wrapped up my tour. I was in Nashville. So much fun. And Atlanta. And gonna tell you something that I did masturbated manually in the hotel in Atlanta.

Ashley. I was masturbating the other day, and I was thinking about you because of this. Because I was, like, on the couch, and I was like, ooh, I'm turned on. I started masturbating. I was wondering, like, okay, if you guys are new here, Ashley doesn't masturbate manually. I do now, which is great because we own a sex toy company, so you should be using sex toys. But if you're watching TV and you get turned on, do you physically get up and grab a vibrator, or do you not, like, spontaneously masturbate in your living room?

Such a personal question.

On our pod, we have a sex toy.

Something about it feels different.

I don't feel like I don't want to answer that, you get up and get a vibrator from the other room. I have keep one in the living room.

Listen. What I've never done is been watching something. I get up, get a vibrator, bring it back to the couch, and I masturbate on the couch. That's something I don't do. No, Shade.

You don't masturbate on your couch. You spend zero time mastering your couch.

I don't masturbate on the couch.

You do constantly.

What?

I only watch TV on my couch.

You're just jerking off on the couch. Watching what?

Whatever is there. Sometimes I'm really turned on by something. Like, sometimes somebody will bend over and, like, I just. I'm turned on by it. Or I don't, like, throw on pornhub or anything on my television, which I would put porn on my television. I'm more of a computer porn person. So I'll do that in my bedroom. But I don't know. Sometimes I'm turned on by the concept of something, and you just got to go.

So, again, once again, this is not a plug for Vibes only, but it is inadvertently. I was working on this story concept.

Masturbating on the couch.

I was in the hotel.

Oh, you were? Okay.

Yeah. I was, like, conceptualizing it in my head, and it's extra nerd. It's. And it's extra naughty. I was a nerdy. It's extra dirty and naughty. I find it there, and I got so turned on.

Yeah.

So sometimes I'm doing something on the couch and I'm turned. I just got to crank it out.

So crank it out. So just have to say in the vibes only at this week, we have a new story special for Raina Camping.

It's hot. Is that the one you masturbated to?

No, no, no, no.

Sometimes I have a hard time listening to the stories because I'm like, ashley masturbated all of this.

So we have a camping story. It's really sexy.

Where do they have sex?

Well, I don't want to give it away, but it's like they have never hooked up before. It's like they're friends that have always had a crush on each other. And she's a reluctant camper. She didn't want to go, but he's like, thank you so much for coming. I'm really glad you're here. And then they take it to the tent, But I have to say, can.

We take it to the tent? What's his name?

He's nameless.

Okay.

Some have names and have don't. Yeah. Yeah. I love. I love it. I was masturbating to Conrad. To a Conrad fantasy. So everybody loves Conrad. But then I got home last night and I did use the Ashley. And it had been a minute since I've used the Ashley because I've been testing other stuff and using the new toys we have coming out. And I mean, it really just rocked my world. I hadn't used her in a while, so it was incredible. So we, you know, we love all of our toys and we have some new stuff we want to tell you guys about for the holidays.

Yeah. And we. So we will just get all this out of the way really quickly. But we are having Black Friday sale at Vibes Only. And a Girls Gotta Eat. So Girls Gotta Eat podcast dot com. And we are changing our URL Girls Gotta eat dot com. So either one of those will go to the same place at the moment.

That's a big announcement.

Yeah, it is a big announcement.

Girls gotta eat.com straight up. Yeah.

So we own it.

We did it. We did it.

Five years.

We did it.

And girls got Epochcast Shop paid for it. We started GoFundMe. It was important. Don't give us any money. Buy a vibrator. But yeah, Girls Gotta Eat Podcast shop has everything. We have really cute stuff. We have sweatshirts and mugs and stickers and all kinds of fun, gifty stuff. So we will have Black Friday sales on that. And then vibes only. We have Black Friday sales and we have so much fun stuff coming out for the holidays. Do you want to talk about the pouch?

Yeah. So if you're watching, I'll just hold it up. So we have this custom Vibes only. Oh, my God, I love this moment. I'm like a QVC moment. This custom Vibes Only travel pouch, of course it will hold your. Your vibrators, but what we have is the Get Wet set. So these are all of our products. You get the vanilla frosting blow gel, the juicy berry massage oil, and our elite lube, all in this custom travel pouch. The pouch is free and the package itself is cheaper than if you were to buy all three separate. So you're a discount on all three. You get the free pouch. Really gifty. Or for yourself, of course. And then you can also get all three vibrators for a limited time. You can get the Ashley, the Raina, and the Gigi for $2.99, which is a savings of $46. I believe it's 3.45. And then you get the pouch as well.

Yeah. So if you want to get gifts for people, this pouch is really gifty and so fun. You get all the stuff. Or if you like spice up your own life in the bedroom. And if you just want to buy vibrators for all your friends for the holidays, get all three at once or get them all three for yourself. You know, no judgment, but Vibes only.

Done like stocking stuff. Some of them like do whatever. Yeah, great gift.

And that's all gonna be Vibes only dot com. So we'll have Black Friday sale. You can get on our newsletter just by going to the website. Enter your email and then we'll obviously email you about this as well. So.

Yeah. And if you're new here and you were like, what were they talking about with the camping thing? We have an app that is erotic audio experiences or you can get that for iPhone and for Android and it connects to your toys. They're all Bluetooth enabled. And there's also a phone remote control in there that is free. Then there's premium features like the stories and there's video content. Not porn. It's educational sex video content in there. And again, but you can see all that@vibesonly.com and within the app store, wherever you get your apps.

Yeah.

Last thing that we'll get out of the way and then we'll keep it moving. We're gonna put this on our website too, but order by dates. You can go to our website. If I'm only to check the dates to arrive by Christmas, it'll be in the faq. And then also for Girls Gotta Eat, we'll throw that in there as well on the Girls Gotta Eat site if you want that merch. So thank you guys for always supporting us and everything we do. And we just are so excited to put stuff in front of you. We worked on stuff for the holidays really, really hard. For Vibes only, we have really cute merch. We are going to put these mugs on sale. If you're watching it says caffeinate masturbate and we have a great crew neck and all kinds of really fun stuff for you guys. So check it out on our site.

And there's new toys coming. Yeah. Yeah. So just stay tuned. We'll alert you guys about all this stuff. And again, sign up for the newsletter, of course, and get those tickets to Girls Got Eat shows. They make a great gift. Girls Gotta Eat dot com, click on live shows. We have so many shows coming up in 2023. And again, tickets just make Such a fun gift, especially last minute. Yeah. You know, you haven't got someone to give. Get them tickets to the Girls Gotta Eat show.

Yes. So thank you guys again for your support, and we're excited for the holidays. Yeah.

Okay, so I had a erotic moment earlier. The window washer is washing the buildings today. And I heard him banging around. And then he comes down in his, like, little rope swing. Whatever they. Whatever keeps them.

Carabiner. I made that up, you guys. I have no idea.

He's, like, hanging outside the window, and, like, he's at the window, and my shades were up, and I wasn't gonna go over there and put him down in his face. So he's just looking in, and he, like, gave me a look.

This.

He was, like, being sexy. And I. I swear to God, we had a moment, and I.

Then.

Then he's just washing the windows while I'm, like, doing stuff. Like, I was, like, filling up my water pitcher, and I was, like, kind of tidying up, and I'm like, I can't. He's watching this whole thing while he's like, g. This, like, smirky smile. I.

This would be my dream job. To be able to, like, repel down a building. Like, rock climb up and down a building and look in people's apartments. I. I love taking. Okay.

When you first started that sentence, I was like, what? Rock? Anything Athletic. No. And then I get it now. You want to spy on people.

I want to be a peeing tom. You know, the only. Right.

What a dream.

What a dream. And it's like, you're like. You're thinking, like, should I shut the blinds? And nobody does it. Cause every person has the same thought you do. They're like, it's so rude to shut it. So people just go about their day in front of these people.

Let's talk about if I did. If I walked over there, I would have been face to face with them. If I would. Cause what I have is, I have a big window, and my whole door to my patio is glass. Like, it's a giant window. It's a huge. It's like a wall. Not that my apartment's that big. It's not. But, like, that whole wall is window. So have walked over there. I would have been, like, face to face with him and just shut the blinds in his face while he's, like, going like this. Like, I'm kidding. But he did give me, like, a sexy smirk.

Yeah, he got he carabine down.

That is not a word.

Bella, can you Google what carabine Means.

Carabiner is the hook on the golf towel.

Look up Caribbean. Yeah, but it's when you, like, It's a thing. No, it's Cara beaned. Listen, guys, I never said that I was athletic or nature. I feel like he just.

You know, you're right also.

I don't.

I mean, whatever.

I think that, like, how many gross people must he see? And then he gets to, like, rappel down, and you're just like a nice looking young lady just in her apartment. You probably in those booty shorts.

I was wearing sweater number one. I'm, like, sitting here, like, beating myself up that I didn't change my sweater.

You want me to tell. I feel like I don't. I don't want to manage you. I feel like that's not our vibe.

Raina, I told you, you do need to manage me better. You don't like it.

You don't appreciate.

Well, I appreciate it later.

No, you. Yes. This is like that pepper.

When you let. Just let me eat that pepper.

Ashley. I put on some hand lotion, sat down next to you, and you're like, did you just put on perfume? And you looked at me like the flesh was gonna melt off your face. You didn't like it. So I'm gonna be like, over to this couch change. Your shirt smelling like a bath and body works jerking. I'm not trying to have ashy legs for you guys on the YouTube, but.

Like, Reina, like, we said we were gonna be changing outfits, and you said.

Eventually you were gonna stop doing that.

Why don't you just say, would you. What'd you think was gonna happen if you. Something.

I don't know. I just thought. You're living your life, Bella.

Maybe you should.

Bella should have managed this anyway.

Okay, so dream job, Secret dream job, right? This is funny. Like, if you get asked, if you didn't do this, what would you do? And I'm like, I would be a DJ or a private investigator. Dj? What is dj? PI. So.

You would be a window washer.

So you can spy on people?

You know, the way that guy looked.

Into my soul, it was a lot.

That's why you take that job. Okay? There's a million jobs you could take where you might not not die. There's only. There's only one reason to take that job. You. I see people. The building across from me. So my building is 18 stories, and the one across from me is more. So it must be, like 25 stories. And people, like, repel down that you have a death wish if you Want to pick that as your job. You just like peeping on people's apartments. You could get any other job that pays that.

Some people, I mean it's a job.

They'Re in it for the game.

I don't think it's that scary.

I think it's you're attached to. There's other jobs where you're not hanging.

Off of a building. Pretty dope job. Yeah, but that's got a thrill to it.

That's what I'm saying. You really have to wanna do you have to have a death wish?

No, it's okay. All right, we're gonna talk about some of our partners and then we're gonna come back. I am telling you guys about osea. I am so obsessed with osea and what I'm gonna tell you guys about today I am really excited about. Cause they have this like little kit that you can kind of try a bunch of different stuff but. But this is a product line that I'm obsessed with. California based skincare and body care brand. They make clean, vegan, cruelty free skincare products. They've been doing it for over 25 years and they use seaweed as their hero ingredient, nutrient rich superfood. And they are climate neutral certified. So they make amazing gifts for everyone on your list. I love everything that they do. I post this on my Instagram story a couple weeks ago. I do this spray in the morning and then I do the day glow oil over it and I do their eye cream. I have this little eye roller that I'm obsessed with and and everything that they do is so great. Also the Andaria algae body oil that just makes your skin glow and look so beautiful. And the perfect gift is this OCA bestseller minis collection. So a six piece set of luxurious skincare and body care favorites and convenient and adorable travel sizes for a complete glow up from head to toe. So there's their three best selling face products, the ocean Cleanser, the Hyaluronic Sea Serum and the C Biotic water cream. And then three best selling body moisturizers including their TikTok famous Andaria Algae body oil. Like I mentioned, this is incredible also because if you travel and you carry on a lot, I carried on this whole last trip, I was like, you know, I carry on queen and you got to have your little travel sizes so this is going to be perfect. And it's in a beautiful box. Their packaging is incredible. Easy to gift wrap but the packaging is really gorgeous. So you can even skip the wrapping altogether. And again everything's Clean, clinically, proven, consumer tested. We are obsessed with it. I cannot stress enough that this is a real staple in my entire skincare and body care routine. It's so important to moisturize your body as well. And just check out everything they have. You can shop based on your skin concern, if you have dry skin or combination skin or you're looking for anti aging benefits or again, I love their stuff for your eyes. Just really, really great. So for a gift that will impress, check out OCA's bestseller minis collection. Right now you get 10% off your first order with promo code GGE@ocma malibu.com you'll even get free samples with every order and orders over $50 get free shipping. So that's 10% off at Osea o s e a Malibu.com promo code GG.

And it's wintertime so it's time to protect that skin. You know the cold hammers it you guys. Y okay, so I am gonna talk about Living Proof and I always love talking about them cause I feel like I've been on such a hair journey since we started this podcast and I had never used Living Proof before and my sister in law uses it and her hair is the best hair I've ever seen. And you use it and also you have great hair. And what I like about Living Proof is they have a million different solutions depending on what you want. So it's not just like a one size fits one. And Ashley and I are such fans of all the products that they do. So that is their biggest thing that like no matter what kind of hair you have and what journey you're on, if you have frizzy hair, if you lack volume, if you want curl definition, they hit the individual sol for all those types of hair care problems. And instead of guessing your hair care needs, you can take Living Proofs quiz online and they'll analyze your specific hair care concerns and styling goals and then use AI powered technology to help customize your hair care routine. Ever since I became a partner, I use all of their products. Their shampoo, their conditioner. I won't travel without it. I won't use any other types. I am just such a big fan. And they have a couple new exciting products. Ashley what they have Triple Bond Complex. It's a weekly bonded that's living your heart into triple bondage. I don't even know what that means. No, it's Triple Bond complex, a weekly bond building treatment that makes hair eight times stronger. So check that out. And then they also have Living Proofs Perfect hair day advanced clean dry shampoo.

So good.

And if you're like me and you don't want to wash your hair very often, Dry shampoo.

It's the best dry shampoo in the game.

Absolutely. And then they ensure that all their formulas are free of silicone, harsh sulfates, parabens. And they're cruelty free, color safe and safer chemically treated, treated hair. So you guys can stop concealing and show off your hair's natural brilliance with Living Proof. Visit livingproof.com GGE and use the code GGELP to get 10 off your first purchase. That's livingproof.com GGE code GGELP for 10% off your first purchase. Livingproof.com GGE code GGELP okay, so I wanted to tell you this story, which I want to tell you guys this story. Of course I talked to Ashley about it, but this thing happened to me this weekend. It was an unfamiliar feeling. And since we're all, all going over the holidays and I feel like a lot of times it comes up like, who are you dating? Are you single? Are you seeing anybody? And I think people just really sort of dread going home for the holidays because that. So you shouldn't. And we have great episodes about it. So check our website and you guys can look at older episodes where we've talked about that because it's such a common concern. But I had this thing happen this weekend, and I'm just. I'm not used to the feeling. So I had some friends in town that I grew up with. I grew up with this, like, big group of guy friends, and everybody's married. Some of them live here. I've dated one of them. And, like, the main one that I'm the closest with was in town with his wife. So I had asked him what he was doing on Friday night, and he said that another one of our guy friends and his wife were going out to dinner. And I thought it was, like, a little weird that they didn't include me, but I just thought, whatever, they just want to be the four of them. And then the next day I came to find out that there was like eight of them at this dinner. And it was four guys that I grew up with and all their wives. And I was, like, excluded from it and, like, kind of lied to through omission. And it really hurt my feelings. And the reason that I was left out of this is that I used to date one of the guys. Not seriously. And years ago, this was never, like, a boyfriend of mine, but Tumultuous he was like, a pretty big liar and just acted like a jerk in general. And he was, I guess, had come with his wife. I didn't even know he'd gotten married. And he had basically said, I kind of prefer that Reina doesn't come. And he just said, I don't think my wife would love it. So I don't know if that has anything to do with her asking that or not, but it's fine. It just. It really hurt my feelings. And I felt like I was left out and lied to. And all these people, like, hung out without me. And I started to feel really sorry for myself. Cause I felt like. Like I wouldn't have been left out of this if I had, like, a partner. And I can't imagine somebody's wife being like, she can't come. Like, I'm this single girl that used to date her husband. And I think that if I had somebody, they would have included me. And it just. I went home and I felt, like, so sad that night. I was, like, really feeling sorry for myself. And I just felt like I am so single. And all these people I grew up with like, got married and started families, and I just didn't. And now I'm being, like, excluded from something because of it. And so it just really made me feel sad. And I was, like, really in my feelings about it. And it's not something I experience a lot. I don't think about it very often. Cause you and I have made it a goal in life to have all these different kinds of friends. We're always out with girlfriends. And, like, nobody really makes you feel bad about this. But I don't want to be, like, sometimes in a small town. But Pittsburgh is not like a big town. It's a Midwest town. I think that that's what people do. They get married, they start families. You know, this isn't like a big city where people are single friends. So I just was feeling sorry for myself. And I wasn't really talking. Ashley, the next morning was like, girl, you good? And I was like. I was actually just talk. Typing all my feelings up to send them to you. I have. Sometimes I do that when I'm gonna send you, like, a really long thing. I'll put it in my notes section. And I sent it to you. And I, like, talked through it with you. And it's not that I feel like the feelings were. I did. As I typed it, I was like, this is silly that I'm beating myself up about this. That I feel, like, so sad and in my feelings about this. And you had some good feedback for me. But I just want to like. I think people are like, you girls are these like single icons. I don't always like it. It's not my dream. But nobody's ever really made me feel bad about it before. So I just was feeling sorry for myself and feeling sad. So I just want to acknowledge that, like, you know, that can happen sometimes. And I really encourage you to, like, put that on paper and write it down. And it helped me to at least think, like, about all these other good things I have in my life. And you said to me, you can speak on it a little bit more.

Should I pull up my text? I just need to reiterate. I felt like I did pretty good in the moment.

You did. I just, I was really sad. And I think a lot of people's knee jerk reaction is to sort of retreat and feel bad for themselves. And it's mine too sometimes, but talking it out and typing it out really helps. So you had some insight. It did help me to sort of feel a lot better and just be like, okay, stop feeling like this.

I have a lot to say about it. I mean, I think that some things just aren't as personal as they do feel. You know, I was like, how many times, you know, have we gotten together with our girlfriends and everybody knows it's a girl's dinner. You can't bring your partner. Like, there's no rule. But it's like, it would be weird, you know, like, this is kind of like, I'm not saying that we're all single, but, you know, we're just kind of like, that's the vibe. Tonight is like the girls dinner or whatever it is. And sometimes it's a couple's dinner and couples are going to couple, you know, sometimes they want to a do just do their thing. And it probably isn't ideal for that guy to have somebody that he dated or slept with, you know, to. To be at dinner with his wife. And I don't even know if it would have been different if you had a partner. You don't. You just don't know. And I just. Sometimes you get so. Not you. Anybody can get so in their head, like, this was premeditated and they sat around and talked about how they didn't want me there. Sometimes it's not that deep, you know, Sometimes it's like these people made a plan and you weren't included for maybe this reason. And we're all adults enough to realize that these things kind of happen, but they can still sit with you. And obviously I, like, validated that. And I don't think that it's silly at all, but I think that you told me that you didn't have, like, the best ending with him, so.

Yeah, it also felt, like, shitty that I was like, oh, this person gets picked over.

Yeah.

And this is like, a liar who.

You don't think is the best person. So I was just like, you shouldn't feel alone because of this guy. You should feel thankful you weren't with that guy. That was one of my takes. And I. I just said that I think we all. By reading back my own text, Ashley's.

Like, I killed it. I know.

No, no, no. I just. In the moment, I, like, felt what you were. I knew what you were, like, dealing with, and I was just like, I think we all have low moments. And you were. And I have less than most, which is something to be thankful for. Married people have low moments all the fudgeing time. Think of what that guy's wife must go through day to day. Listen, I don't know what their relationship is like, but I think put things into perspective. And I have lows for sure. I had a low an hour ago, but it's. You'd think that I would have more lows about not being a relationship, but I truly don't because I really do love my life. I feel like. Like it's a dream. And I just remind myself of what I do have and what I am so happy to have and that I don't envy any couples that I know, really. You know, like, I like my life and the things that get me down are. Are not feeling, like, alone or single. And I feel so proud of that because if I wanted that, I could probably have it. You know, I'm living the life that I've chosen for myself and. But validating at the same time that we all have these moments. And especially, like, if something happens with somebody that you're into that doesn't go the way you want. I mean, even if it's something silly like on a dating app or something, like, we sometimes can't admit that it does get to us.

How many times do you sit there? I mean, maybe not you, but everybody like the plural you. And you're just like, why am I letting this bother me?

Yeah.

And it's okay. You know, it's okay. I think that if you have a moment like this, one of the things that's nice to write down is, like, all the things I have in My life that are good, that I'm proud of. And I like to think about everybody else's marriage around me and all the problems and the struggles that they go through and that I don't have to go through. And I, I think marriage is a beautiful thing and having kids is beautiful and everything is hard. There's trade offs for everything in life, you know, but that girl is married to a pathological liar. And there's a trade off to that. You know, I'm sure she's wonderful and doesn't deserve it, just like me. But I think there's trade offs to everything. So if you're feeling like, especially, you know, during the holidays, people are like, are you dating anybody? And you're like, I hate that I have to answer. No, just think of all the things you have going on and if you have to like pre lock in those talking points in your brain, have those ready to go. Yeah. People are just asking you if they have nothing else to talk about. But it helped to talk about it helps me to really write things down. Cause I was sitting at home just like ruminating, marinating in this. I was so sad. And I ended up going out to dinner with one of the guys on Saturday night. And he was just like, you know, he basically echoed what we were talking about, that there's like trade offs to everything. Marriage isn't easy either. And I just, I felt really sad. And he also echoed like, this was kind of just a boys dinner.

Yeah.

And like that's just kind of how it was too. I'm used to always being treated like one of the boys. And I have a big group of guy friends that I had growing up, but it could have just been that too.

Totally. I mean, that's the thing. Sometimes we like spiral. And also listen, there is something to be said for every once in a while really needing to sit and feel sorry for yourself and letting it all pile on top of each other. And like I'm single and then they're excluding me. And like we all do it. It's like I, I don't do it a lot. I'm not that type of person. I'm not like a person that sits around and feels sorry for myself and plays a victim and all this stuff. But we all get in those moments and sometimes you just need a friend to pull you out of it and put things into perspective. And I think that, like you said, it's just remembering that everybody's got their own shit, you know, and reminding yourself that you're a bad Bitch or what, Whatever you need to do and think about the things that you've going on in your own life. And we talked about this circling back to the holidays. We've had this on multiple episodes. But people get. Get worried about that dreaded question of, like, are you dating? Or what's going on with you from family members. And sometimes family members are going to pressure you and they're going to breathe down your neck and they're. They're being assholes about it. But a lot of times we've said, like, Raina just said, it's just small talk. It's just something to bring up. And you can just pivot the conversation and say, no, but what I am doing is this thing in my work or I picked up this new hobby. Like, you lead the conversation. Like, don'. Be scared. And if someone just won't let up, they're like a dog with a bone and just walk away. Or be like, I'm gonna. I. I need to take a. Sorry, the can cranberry just really. Just really hit me. No, but set your own boundaries. Of course, we say that all the time with your friends, family, whoever it may be. But those conversations can be easily just pivoted. You can redirect. Yeah.

So I'm glad we talked about it. I think it's very timely and. Yeah, that's all.

Just want to share a little antidote with you guys. Yeah. When this was happening, I was in Atlanta, and I really had a great time. I love Atlanta. I love how it's grown and changed even since I've move way. There's just all this, like, new really dope stuff. So I had a great show there. I had a great show in Nashville. But I've said this to you before. Like, it's so weird for me to go back there because I lived another adult life there. Like, I felt like I'm revisiting old Ashley in, like, a weird way. And I don't know if this hits so different because of who I am, but also because I never moved as a kid or anything. I stayed. I lived in my same house my whole life even. Like, I don't have different lives. And then you go on. You have, like, the traditional stages of life where you go off to college and you do this and do that, and those feel normal. It feels normal to go back and visit, like, my college. But when I go back and visit Atlanta, I'm like, I was here for 10 years, had a career, you know, dated, had a serious relationship, had a group of friends. I'm still close with most of my friends as like a different person. It's just weird to me. I don't know. I always say to you, I'm like, it feels so weird. It feels like I'm like visiting my old life or something.

I think it's so interesting. I. I can't really relate to it because I moved here when I was 21.

22.

I was 22. And I've only had my adult life here. So my whole friend group is here. My whole life is New York. And it's so weir to think like if I had had that somewhere else also. But I mean, you can do it. People ask us all the time, should I move? I mean people moved to New York and we encourage you guys to do it and you can start over. And I like that message too, that you can make a whole new friend group and a whole new job and all that and you can look back fondly and still.

Yeah, and I feel happy about it. I still friends with all those people and like my career there was building blocks for my career today. So it's not like a look down on that at all. I loved it there. But I really like, I think there's some people, like we talk about Jenny Jones who move all the time, you know, there she's lived in, I don't even know, six different cities since you've even known her. So for me, like I like lived there for 10 plus years. Like whole life, put roots down there. Like had a whole ass life. Yeah. And then have a whole ass new life. So it's just to go back. It did feel, you know, like home in a sense. So like walking around where I used to walk, Dewey, like I just, I walked my whole old walk. I snuck into my apartment complex. I went through the gate and I was like, oh my God, I sent you a picture. I was like, I used to live here. Like it was just crazy. Like, like I was just always there with, with Dewey too. Like I was like, I just, you know. Yeah, it's a different time.

Yeah, it's nice. I feel like, I don't know, like I. It's hard for me to like validate it because it's so outside of my experience. But it is really nice to just go back and remember and feel like I've come so far. And who was that girl back then? Who was she?

A different face, different life.

She did have a different face, a different dog, a different job. You didn't even know me.

Someone like wrote in a comment like Where's Dewey? I was like, like, someone that started from the podcast from a while back or maybe started at the beginning, like, wrote in a comment recently, like, where's Dewey? I was like, he's doing dead. I'm kidding. I would never write that. That would fuck somebody up because I have, like, a dark sense of humor. But anyway, Dewey is my dad dog, if you're curious. We miss him every day. Rip to the king.

You shed your whole old life, but.

If you're listening, you're like, where is he? He's no longer with us.

Is he in your apartment?

Apartment? His ashes are.

He's in your apartment.

You're right.

He's. He's on the shelf.

He's always with us.

All right, okay.

Well, we are going to get into it. We didn't even talk about our guest day. We were so excited about her. We have the best episode. I am so excited. You're. If you're watching on YouTube, get ready to see my second sweater. And I am going to tell you guys, I like that sweater so much more than this one, too. I'm, like, upset. I can't believe I've even been able to record this.

You've been saying, like, for a while. Like, eventually, I'm going to stop caring and I'm going to, like, not put on the same outfit days later. And I just thought today was the day.

Last week, I didn't do it, but I kept the jeans on. But I did a T shirt and a sweatshirt, which could be like, I got hot.

Yeah. This is a whole different vibe. I just was, I'm letting you fly, Raina. I told you, for you, I have to manage.

Okay. So, Tushy.

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Okay, one thing you guys are probably wondering. We said we were going to recap Love is blind when it ended. We're going to do it separately because we can really deep dive on it and put it on YouTube. So at this point, it will already be up there when this episode comes out. So head over to our YouTube and you can watch the full love is blind recap.

Yeah. All right, guys, well, enjoy the guest and the rest of the episode with.

Ashley in a different sweater. Oh, my God.

Okay, guys. We are really excited to welcome our guest today. She is a licensed psychotherapist with 20 years of experience in the sex therapy field. You don't look old enough to have 20 years experience. We'll get back to it. She's featured in hundreds of articles in places like Harper's Bazaar, Allure, Oprah magazine and the New York Times. Her weekly, weekly podcast, pillow Talks, covers all things sex and intimacy. And you can pick up her book in early 2023, sex talks, the five conversations that will transform your love life. Please welcome to the show, Vanessa Moran.

Thank you guys so much for having Me. I'm so excited to be here.

We're so excited to have you. We just found out that you have two pugs. I do a black and a tan. And it's takes me back. It's. Rain is the only type of dog she likes is a pair of pugs.

That are different colors. That's really. They cuddle and it's so adorable.

Well, when you guys come out to the west coast, you can come meet them.

We absolutely will.

They're definitely the most interesting thing about me.

Stop.

And we also learned that your husband had two last names and you have obviously a last name like everybody and you picked between the three and you both changed the last names. I love everything about you guys.

Oh, thank you. Yeah. I didn't want to just have to default change my name because I'm the woman. And so. And so he had that hyphenated name. We said, okay, we have three options. Let's pick. And I thought Marin was the prettiest.

Yeah.

And you let us know that it's a lot harder for a man to change his last name in general. So anybody that's listening, make your man.

Do that if you want to make his life harder. Yeah, we fully support it.

Yeah.

Well, we found you because actually we were looking for people to do some sex and its videos for the app and we had a. A couple listeners suggested you and your husband who do a podcast together. So I would just love to hear a little bit more about you. Introduce yourself to the listeners, who you are, what you do.

Yeah.

Yeah. So my name is Vanessa. I'm a sex therapist. I have a business together with my husband Xander. And we really focus on helping couples keep the spark alive in long term relationships. So we've got. Yeah, all sorts of stuff. We're on Instagram, we have the podcast, we're writing the book. We are just really passionate about this topic. Like, you guys know, like, what do you want to talk about? I'm like, here's a list of a hundred things that I would be so stoked talk about. So I just love doing this work and I'm really glad to be here.

I'm curious. We want to hear the story about you and your husband too. And you share this in the book. And I think it's probably a lot of people's story too, that people will be able to relate to. But I'm also just curious about you working together and like living together. Being together, like live, work and play together.

It's a lot. I mean, you guys know it's a.

Lot we don't get to sleep.

Like a friendship and working together, the business and, you know, it's like a lot of stuff. But yeah, I mean, it is a lot. But, you know, we love spending time together. I think that's really what makes it work. And we have really good communication as well, so that's made it work. But we kind of fell into this. He was working for Google. He had like a long career in tech and hr. And we ended up moving. We were in San Francisco at the time. We moved to Berlin. And he just wanted to take some time off and kind of figure out what his next move was. And I just asked him to help me put together an Excel spreadsheet for tracking some things, and that was sort of how he fell into helping out with the business. So he was doing all the behind the scenes stuff for a couple of years, and I kept bugging him saying, you know, we're a real couple and we go through real struggles of our own. Like, I think we should talk about this together because it's one thing for me as a professional to be, like, talking to people. I think sometimes it's easy for people to say, like, well, yeah, you're a sex therapist. You have all this training. Of course that's easy for people, for you. But I just thought there's something really valuable about being able to share as a real couple. So it took me a few years to convince them to, like, come in front of the camera and do the podcast with me. But now we get really great feedback from people saying, like, I appreciate your vulnerability. And it just normalizes all these things that all couples go through. It makes me feel like I'm not alone. And it just opens up the conversation between partners easier too, when they see, like, another couple talking about.

About it. Absolutely. I love that.

So you guys were in a place where you were dating, you were not married yet. Right. And your sex life just, like, took a steep dive off a cliff and you went to therapy about it?

Yes.

Okay.

Yes. You know, I tell the story in the book and I'm like, there's nothing very unusual about this story. I feel like everyone in a relationship has some version of, like, things were hot and heavy and then life kind of catches up to you. And so we just got into this phase of we were both working really late, we had a lot of responsibilities, we weren't making time for each other, and we were having very little sex. And when we did have sex, it was very boring. It was kind of predictable. It Wasn't very pleasurable. It just felt kind of icky and disconnected. And we had never had to talk about sex before because things were so great.

So they were, like, hot and heavy at the beginning.

And I think it gave that impression of, like, oh, it's so good. We don't even have to talk about it. And I think that's what a lot of us are going for in relationships. Like, we think that if I don't have to say anything, this is a good sign. And so we got into that tough point in our relationship and realized we had no skills or, like, techniques to draw upon because we'd never talked about it before. So all those initial conversations that we had just immediately went into fights. Like, you never initiate. Well, you don't seem to care about me having an orgasm, you know, because we just didn't have any communication foundation to fall back on.

I'm so intrigued by it. I mean, not. Not intrigued because it's just so normal. I just feel like people are listening. Like, same.

That's me.

Yeah, right. So what'd you do? I dragged his ass to therapy. I was like, you know, this is a deal breaker. Like, we are not resolving this. So he very begrudgingly went to therapy. I mean, he was not into it. And I start off the book talking about that first session of just even sitting in that therapist's office realizing I don't even know what to say. Like, I don't know how to describe this. I don't even fully know what I want. I just want not this. So it was really hard to just, like, figure out where to go from there.

We have done some really great episodes with Ian Kerner and Emily Morris and everybody. Every time we poll people, what do you want to hear from a sex therapist? And they say, I've either a mismatched libido with my partner, or we used to have this hot and heavy sex life, and we just don't anymore. And I don't know how to approach it. I think the advice so much, not from those people or you, but the advice in general is like, we'll just talk about it. And it's like, but I don't know how to talk about it. I don't. Is scheduling sex weird? Is it weird if I'm just like, let's throw on a porn if we've never watched a porn before. A lot of these things aren't actionable. They're just like, just talk about it.

Yeah. I mean, the idea of, like, we need to talk about it. Everybody Knows that already. There's nothing new about that. But what really bothered me and what drove me to write the book, we actually wrote it together, was that there's so few pieces of advice about, like, well, what do I say? How do I say it? When do I say it? And so I really love getting very nitty gritty and practical with people. I think, like, that's the most important thing. Because if you give that generic advice, it just makes people feel even shittier. They're like, oh, all I'm supposed to do is, like, just talk about it or, like, just relax and stop thinking about it. So I really wanted to give people much more actionable, like, specific things to do. So that's why the book is really, really full of specific conversations to have and conversation prompts and examples of how to say things.

So what would you say, if you don't mind, like, sharing a little bit more? Was there one underlying issue? Was it just that, like, life got in the way and then you didn't have the tools to figure out, or, like, what helped? Like, is there a way to just give the short answer here? I mean, I know we know it's all in the book, but, yeah, I.

Mean, there really wasn't anything in particular that was going on.

Cutie. Oh, he must smell the dogs.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Hi. Yeah, there wasn't anything specific that was coming up. It really was just a classic case of, like, life got busy. We weren't prioritizing it. We didn't know what to do. And so I think that really is the case for the majority of people. It's like, there's not one thing that goes horribly wrong. It's just kind of like a cascade of tiny little things that start to snowball and really become a big problem.

How many years into the relationship did you go to therapy? Therapy for this?

We went for a couple of months.

How long have you been together?

Oh, we had been together for about two years at that point.

Because I think some people are like, two years. I think some people are like, well, is this weird that I even think about this after two years? But I'm sure a lot of people hit that mark. I have after two years, like, I just don't fucking use. Not that fun anymore.

You know, I think we've all experienced that, and it's this sense of grief. Almost like, what happened to us? It was so great at the beginning. Like, the chemistry seemed good. I do want to say, like, some people don't have that hot and heavy stage, and that's normal. And that's okay, too. But I think for so many of us who do, it's. Yeah, the sense of loss. It's a confusion, like, what happened? And it used to feel so effortless, and now it feels like it takes so much work. And I think that's another thing that scares us, too. Like in the book, I call it the fucking fairy tale that this is what we see of sex in TV movies, porn. Like, sex always seems completely effortless. It just happens. It's spontaneous. Nobody's ever talking about it. And so we all crave that feeling of effortlessness. And when it starts to get trickier in our relationships, it starts to feel really scary of, like, well, this isn't what it's supposed to be, and this can't be. Like, this maybe isn't my person. So I think a lot of us end up ending relationships at that time, too. I mean, I definitely thought about it at the time.

Yeah. Is it in a place now where obviously relationships are work forever, but did you feel like it was just a lot of work during those few months and now it is a little bit easier? Or do you feel like it's a constant, we need to communicate, see where we're at, check in? Or has it gotten back to a place where it does feel a little more natural, less work has to be put into it?

Yeah. I'm laughing because I. It's making me remember this meme that I saw last week of.

It was.

I'm not even sure who it was, but it was, like, a couple of lesbians. And they're like, heterosexual people are always talking about, like, relationships are so much work. Totally mocking us. So, yeah, I mean, I do think they're like, you signed up for this, Richard. Like, the difference that we came across is, like, how do we find ways of working on it that, like, can feel fun? So it doesn't need to feel like this.

Got it heavy.

Like, okay, let's go work on our relationship again. But, like, what are simple things that we can do, like, every day that take very little effort, very little time, but it keeps that thread going between us so that it doesn't feel like it's always this heavy.

Like, well, and it sucks. So it should be like, the reward is great. You know, it's not that, like, you sit down and work out your finances, like you're working out your sex life.

The reward is right. Orgasm.

Yeah. Yeah.

So let me ask you. So, you know, for couples that are, I would say, like, quote unquote, just ordinary, like, there isn't a parent hasn't died. There is an extreme panic over, like, money or job security. If it's just day to day, like, I'm just a little tired of this or a little bored of this. Like, where do you start the conversation? Because I want to say that, like, I understand that certain real traumas in your life and stress make you, of course, not want to have sex. And that's a different conversation.

Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so let me start off by telling you guys what typically happens so people don't have these experiences talking about sex in relationships. We wait until things get really bad, and it gets to the point where we've got all this anger, resentment, frustration, confusion, fear boiling over, and we end up doing exactly what Xander and I are doing is, like, the first conversation is a massive fight, right? And of course, that only reinforces, like, ooh, sex is a bad thing to talk about. Cause if we have to talk about it, it's bad. We're gonna get in a fight. Things are not going well. So instead, my recommendation, which is the first conversation in the book, is to start with just the acknowledgement that you guys are having sex. Like, it is wild how few couples have been together years, even decades, and never really had an honest conversation about their sex life. Like, we just do not talk about it. So for so many couples, it's literally just gotta start with having that top. A more comfortable, like, part of your conversation. So that's some of the feedback that we've gotten about our Instagram account, because we show up in stories together every day and people say, like, you know, it actually really helped us just to start talking about sex in a more general sense rather than starting to talk about our sex life specifically. So having those conversations where you're not trying to solve anything, you're not making any requests, you're not giving any complaints, you're literally just talking about sex and getting comfortable with it as a topic of. Of conversations. That's the best starting point.

Like, what is talking about?

I can't not talk about sex, so I can't really. Yeah, like, what? What are we talking about?

I know for you guys are not going to relate with this conversation. You're like, I've had this for a living.

I've had these problems in my life, of course.

Okay, so my favorite starting point is literally just with compliments. So I lay out in that first chapter to bring up just randomly out of the blue, like, one of your favorite sections, sexual memories with your partner. So, like, give them a compliment. Say, like, you know, what just randomly popped into my head the other day? Or you know what I had a dream about last night, that time that we, you know. And so you're recalling a memory. You're reminding each other, like, hey, we have.

Remember we really great sex.

Remember, we do. And we can be good at it.

Okay.

That's a perfect positive memory. You know, it's going to create, like, a positive experience, and then so keep that going for, like, every day, every other day, for, like a week or two weeks where you're just giving your partner a compliment. Like, you look so good today. It doesn't have to even be explicitly sexual. You look really good today. I was thinking of that time that you did this to me. I love the way you kiss me, the way you hold me. So you're just, like, laying that groundwork. And again, it's not any sort of like, don't do that, or, I need you to do this. It's like, just putting the conversation on.

The table, and hopefully they're really receptive.

Yeah. They might say, like, you know, like, wait, why. Why are you bringing that up? And that's fine. Like, the point is not that you're, like, trying to catch them off guard and they don't realize what they're talking about, but you can just say something like, it just popped into my head, and it was a fun memory, and I figured I'd share it with you.

Well, and we always say things like that. You can fib a little. You can say, a dream. And you can say, like, I walked by that movie theater today where I blew you.

You could just.

Sure. Something that reminds you, you know, so and so called. And it reminded me of the time at their wedding when we, you know, had that hot sex or this hotel or vacation or anything like that.

You just want to create this positive association. When we start talking about sex, it's a good thing. I feel good. I'm getting compliments. I'm remembering good memories that we shared.

Okay. Okay. And then if they're not picking up what you're putting down, if you're like, this is a little more broken than.

I thought it was.

What's the next step?

Or what's the next step in general? If it's going well.

Yeah.

If that goes well, when do you kind of start to repair? Yeah.

I mean, it's really gonna be dependent on. Each couple is like, are they even in a place where they're like, there's something going on that I don't want to be doing? Or, you Know, I think in general, it can be a lot better to start with making, like, positive requests rather than immediately going into the, like, complaints. And we can get into, like, the nuance of, like, some complaints are more urgent than others, and we can get into those first. But I think going into, like, making any sort of positive requests of, like, you know, I really love when we go so slow. Like, this is one of the biggest complaints I hear from women is, like, we just jump right into the intercourse, and there's, like, very little in it for me. So making a request in a positive way of, like, I love when we go so slow. Can we do that next time? Something like that.

You told me something on the phone that I want to validate. You said that, like, some women are.

Like, I don't like that.

We just jump into it. You said that you hold people and that what 90% of women said their favorite part of sex is not the penetrative part of it. It's like everything else.

Yeah. 91% of women, we said, like, is intercourse like your favorite activity that you guys do together? Of women who have sex with men, and 91% of them said, no, there's something else that I prefer. And this is. I mean, it's so important to recognize, like, our bodies are not really wired to feel a lot of sensation or to have orgasms from penetration alone. But it's something that most women don't know. And so they feel like something is horribly wrong, horribly broken with them, and they're having sex. Sex. It feels like there's nothing in it for me. I'm not enjoying it. It's just kind of. I'm laying there staring at the ceiling while my partner is jackhammering away. And, like, what's wrong with me that I don't love this?

It's very funny because I'm thinking of some men learning this stat and being like, what? A lot of heartbroken.

Yes.

Like. Like, I'm thinking of if you pulled a hundred men, and they'd be like, what do you think the best part of the sexual experience is for you and your partner? He'd be like, when I'm fucking her, when my dick's inside. And women are like, no, honey, no, sweetie, no, Richard. Sorry, Charles. It is so true, though. I mean, even what we do with our erotic app, we have these erotic audio stories. And if they're 10 minutes, two minutes of the story is that, you know, so much of it is, like, the buildup and the foreplay and all those types of things.

Yeah.

Absolutely. And so that's not to say that intercourse can't be pleasurable or feel very intimate and, you know, enjoyable. But I think it's so important for us to recognize it's just not how women's bodies are really wired to work. And the foreplay. I actually hate the word foreplay because I think it implies, like, these are the things we do beforehand. Like, intercourse is the main thing, and we just do, like, the quick little foreplay beforehand. But I know everybody uses that word so well.

Do you have another word?

I don't.

I keep trying to think of one.

I'm like, other people use core play. And I'm like, okay, that's all right.

But, yeah, sounds a little like a hardcore.

It sounds like a workout to me.

Sounds like a workout.

I went to the core play class.

Yeah.

I'm so sorbed.

Solid core class.

If anybody has a better name for it, let me know.

Can I ask a question? I want to know your answer. So when you masturbate, is it to thoughts of penetrative sex, or is it thoughts of, like, other stuff besides, like, Ashley, tell me you masturbate. It's.

I mean, sometimes it's like the full circle experience. But the way that I would start conjuring up a memory is not with being penetrated right away. It's like the pushing me up against a wall or something like that or something that, like, in the mood.

Me too. So I'm like, that's how I feel. Like, so much of my masturbation is like, my head.

The thoughts going through my head are not like, dick in vagina just swimming away. Yeah.

30 years, you want to masturbate. Dick in vagina.

Want to put anything in my vagina? Even in my fantasies, you're just on my clit.

My porn was all clip. I only incorporated a penis into the porn I watch during the pandemic because I just missed it so much.

And here's one of, like, the terrible things that happens in heterosexual sex, too, is, like, when we start having having issues, a lot of guys think like, okay, you know, we're not having sex that often. Maybe she's turning me down a lot. So when you do get a yes, a lot of guys are like, well, let me get right to it before she changes her mind kind of thing. And so a lot of couples end up, like, just shortening that time of the buildup, and it just goes straight to the intercourse, which just creates even more of this negative cycle of, like, I'm not enjoying this sex that we're having. So why would I create crave it? So we're gonna have less of it. You know, it's just a really awful cycle.

Well, and if there's weird stuff going on in your relationship where there's tension or resentment, it makes you want to be so intimate even less. It almost forces you to have that mechanical, quick inner intercourse as opposed to like touching and feeling and all the romanticism when you're kind of resentful of your partner as it stands in the first place for sure.

It's really easy to be like, just do your thing. Yeah, just get it over with type of thing.

Do you hear that a lot from couples that, like, it becomes a little robotic after a certain amount of time. Like, I remember thinking with my longest term ex, it was like the same menu all the time. I would like wake up, I blow him. I'd get on top, he'd get on top, we'd both be done. I'd have to do it again for seven days.

Exactly.

Thrilled.

Yeah. You can like script it out to the moment like, he's going to touch my breast and this way for like 10 seconds. And then like, you know exactly what's coming. So of course, like, sex drive is one of the biggest complaints that people have. They're always like, I have no sex drive. What do I do? And the first question I ask people is, well, tell me about the quality of the sex that you're having. Is it something that's worth craving? And I think so few of us make that connection between our enjoyment of it and our desire for it. But for 95% of people, it's like, you describe to me what your sex life looks like. Okay. Makes perfect sense why you have zero desire for it. Why would you?

Right? Yeah. So I mean, again, we don't, we don't have like all day with you. And people can read your book and they can also seek therapy themselves. But the book is about these conversations that you have about sex. Can we just discuss, like, another one that you really love?

Yeah. So the second one is what do we need to feel connected? And I think this is another really important piece that gets left out of this conversation. Like, we talk about sex and we go immediately to thinking about the physical act of it. And I think a lot of people don't realize that, like, emotional intimacy and physical intimacy are so deeply intertwined. And so most couples that these days, like, you're leading lives that are so busy and full. Like most couples will say, we just feel like ships passing in the night. Like, or roommates more than lovers. And so it's so important to recognize, like, if you're feeling so disconnected from somebody all day long, it's like, I don't even know who you are anymore. You're just kind of like, here in my space. Why are you gonna feel the desire to be wildly intimate with them later that night? So that conversation is, is all about, like, uncovering practical ways that you can still feel connected to your partner. So it feels like you're not starting from ice cold and trying to get yourself to boiling, but there's like a simmer going between the two of you.

And can that be things that aren't sexual at all?

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I think that a lot of couples are just missing any sort of emotional intimacy. Like little non sexual touches, compliments, like, you know, spending quality time together. A lot of like love languages type stuff can come up here. So that's a great one.

Compliments are such like a. I feel like I see so many couples that don't do that with each other. And the couples that I like the most, like, it's our friends, husbands that are like, my wife looks so hot. Look at the way she dresses. She's a fox. Like, I. I feel like I don't see that in so many couples. And when I do, it's like so nice and refreshing.

I'm like, I don't care. You just have to tell me I'm funny.

I mean, it's nice to like get a compliment personally, but I think there's also something special about the way your partner talks about you in front of other people. I mean, we can all, I'm sure, think of examples of couples where it's like they're just ragging on each other the whole time or like, you know, complaining or ignoring each other. And then when you see somebody exactly like what you were saying, like, my wife is so hot. You're like, oh, that's so cute.

Yeah.

We love to hear what people say about us behind our backs. Like, nice stuff. Like, I feel like that's a turn on. Yeah.

Huge turn on.

Should we move on? On to how to tell someone what you don't like what they're doing in the bedroom, how to redirect. And we want to discuss actual actionable language and things that you can do when you're like, stop doing that.

Yeah, why would you do that?

Okay, so let me set a little groundwork here. So I like to divide these into three categories. So at one end of the spectrum, we have what I actually call, like, sexual perfectionism territory. And I'll to get back. Back to that in a sec. The other end of the spectrum is, like, actual boundary or safety issues. And then we've got this, like, delightful gray area in the middle where I think we'll spend most of our time. But. So the sexual perfectionism thing is I've actually found that a lot of people, because of the fucking fairy tale, we have this idea that every moment of sex should just be passionate and intense and feel so good. But the reality is, like, it's totally normal for your pleasure and your connection to kind of rise and fall throughout an interaction. Like, let's say, for example, if Xander is going down on me, and there's a moment where it's just like, it's not feeling as good. I'm not gonna jump in right in that moment and be like, stop doing that.

Go back to this.

Go do that instead. Like, that's gonna feel intimidating for me because then I'm gonna feel like I'm having to correct him every two minutes. It's gonna feel shitty for him. Cause he feels like he's getting, like, you know, jumped on. So instead, I think those can be good territory to just kind of, like, wait it out for a minute.

So.

So not put this pressure, that every single moment has to be wildly pleasurable. Because you don't want that pressure for yourself either. I have to do such a good job to my partner that the connection never wanes for a second. So it's like, just wait it out in those kinds of situations. And just nine times out of 10, it's gonna get better in that moment in the next couple of moments. So that's one category. And the one time out of 10, it'll go into the gray area. The other end of the spectrum is if something's happening, that's like, a boundary or safety issue. So let's say it's something that you don't feel comfort comfortable doing. It's causing you pain in the moment. Have you guys done a sexual pain episode?

No.

No. Oh, my God. I have a. I have a good guest for you.

Okay.

30% of women were in pain the last time they had sex.

Now, isn't that wild in different ways. Are we talking about just that they have, like, vaginal pain or something that their partner was doing was causing them pain? Or both or either.

Yeah, usually something their partner was doing. Like, it's typically with penetration.

But can that 30. Can that change? Because I. I feel like when I was a little younger, I Used to be in pain. A sac's not excruciating, but it. I don't feel like that anymore.

Yeah, it can change, but there are a lot of, like, sexual pain conditions. This is another thing that does not get talked about.

We should definitely do an episode on this. And. And then also, of course, sometimes just high level, it's just. You need lube. Yes. Yeah.

I mean, that's one of the quick solution fixes for it.

But it's not everybody's problem. But, I mean, I've been in pain where I'm like, oh, I just need a great loop.

It was probably because I didn't like the sex I was having. Honestly, probably I could be part of it.

Yeah, yeah. There are a lot of potential causes for it, but I think as women, we are kind of taught to just, like, let it happen and just continue. A lot of us think that, like, pain just is a part of sex. That just is what it is. So I just like to be super clear of, like, no, you should never be in pain. And you're gonna destroy your sex drive if you're having sex. But you're in pain too. So if you're in pain, if somebody's crossing a boundary, doing something you don't want to do, that's a moment where it's just like, you just have to speak up in that moment moment and say something like, I need to change something up. That's not on the menu for me tonight. Like, that's not something that I feel interested in doing tonight. Something like that. But be really clear and directive and it doesn't have to be a slap in the face, like, fuck you for doing that kind of thing. But just like, yeah, that's not really something that I'm open to doing tonight. Or I'd like to switch things up right now.

I need to take a break. I cannot do this.

Yeah, so that's that. And then we've got the gray zone, which is, you know, a lot of different stuff can come up in that category. So in general, the advice that I have when your partner's doing something that you're not loving is you're always going to get better results when you're making a request, if you frame it positively than if you make a negative complaint. And that's true inside the bedroom and just generally in life. So try to figure out what is a way that you can give some positive feedback to your partner instead of making a complaint. If you're at the early stages of a relationship or you're Just starting to have a more communication. Communication about sex. Give your partner a ton of compliments is where we, like, get back to the compliments thing. Like, a lot of times, if you're giving your partner enough good feedback, you might not get to a point where there even is something, like, super negative that they're doing because you've given them feedback of, like, I love when you go slow like that. I like it when you touch me. I prefer you going down on me versus fingering me. So that kind of stuff. But in the moment, we want to think about what's a way that I can kind of positively redirect somebody. And I will say people get a little bit resilient, resistant to this, because we have that fucking fairy tale in our head thinking, like, our partner's just supposed to know what to do, just supposed to magically figure it out. And sometimes we feel like, I don't even know what I want or what to ask for. But I do think it's really important for us to recognize that responsibility is on us to figure it out. We can't expect our partners to be mind readers, and we wouldn't want to be expected of that in reverse either. So really trying to think about, okay, how is a way that I can frame this so it might be something. Something like, oh, that softer pressure that you were using a minute ago, like, that felt so good. Will you go back to doing that? Something like that. So you're giving them a compliment, but you're giving them a little bit of a direction with it as well.

Okay. Okay. So something. And we do want to. We want to give, like, better techniques for doing some of these things. Something that I've struggled with with a couple guys is they want to stick a finger in my ass during sex.

And I hate it.

Like, I really. It takes me out of the moment. I don't like it. But if that's going to, like, really turn them on, I want to find ways that, like, maybe I could find it more pleasurable, you know, because, like, if that's really where you want to be for the finger in my butthole every time you're coming, fine. I can figure out how to enjoy this more. But, like, all I've ever conjured is, like, stop doing that. I hate that. Don't do that anymore.

Yeah, I mean, that sounds like it's a pretty strong feeling for you. I don't like that. I don't want that to happen. So I can appreciate that you're wanting to be, like, a generous partner. You're like, okay, if this is something you're really into, let me see if I can find ways to enjoy it. So there could be a compromise. Like, maybe there's something like your partner's just touching your butthole instead of going into it. So that could be something. But if it's. If you keep coming up against this, like, don't do that. I hate it. I don't like it. Like, I would say don't force yourself to push your boundaries. Sounds like you have a pretty clear sense.

That's. I guess obviously that's a turn on for them, but, like, it's probably more of what they think you want. Like, what?

Guys, like, really just love to stick.

A finger in the butt. Like, they probably just think that's what you want, or they think it's hot in some way, but they can definitely do without it. It's not like they're getting off by their fingers. I'm just like, I feel like you can if they're also. I mean, I. I slept with a guy that was like, such a butt guy that I was like, do you even know that I have tits? Like, or do you know that I have anything else going on in my body besides my butt? Like, all you want to do was, like, be back there, everything to do with it. So I feel like if it's that they. They could, like, spank you, they can, like, you know, be kind of in the crack a little bit. They can do more stuff with your butt than stick a finger in the hole.

I like the rimming idea, actually, because, like, I still feel like they're like, butthole adjacent. They're like, around it, but I'm not having. Also, I have no problem telling somebody, don't fucking put your fingers there. Like, I'll draw a boundary anytime I need to. But I was trying to compromise, and I feel like a little butthole play. I could get behind a little more.

Okay. So if there's something that, like, your partner's doing in the moment and you just cannot figure out a way to, like, how do I redirect or, like, change this into something positive. You can do the, like, hey, look over there technique that I like to.

Call.

Just tell your partner, hold up, let me focus on you for a second. So you're changing things up. It's just like, giving you the opportunity for a total reset.

But listen, I just feel like men are like, some of their dumb brains would be like, okay, so every time.

I put a finger in her butt.

I get a blowjob. Like they're going to think that they're being rewarded.

That's not classical conditioning going on here. You just do it sparingly.

Okay.

Have a bigger conversation. It's a little bit of last ditch effort, but it can be like a great. If you're just really stuck in that moment. Like, let me just focus on you for a moment because that feels really sexy. Who wouldn't want you to focus on them for a second? And it just gives you the opportunity to like reset the moment.

Yes.

And you might be able to figure out some positive feedback or some coaching to give to your partner while you're doing it. So you might say something like, let's say you're going down on your partner. He's a guy and you can like lick the tip of his head and see, like, hey, do you like the way I'm licking you? I want you to do this to me next. So you're actually like teaching him a little technique in the moment. Or it could be more broad. Like, do you like when I go nice and slow like this? I want you to do that to me next. So it could be super specific or it can be general, but it's a very sexy way of giving your partner a little bit of information. Information.

I think we, I'm just trying to think of what we see the most. Questions, complaints, emails, messages about. I mean, a lot of it is oral sex. And either that they aren't going down there or they're doing it totally wrong. They can't find the clit. I mean, I think that that can be like, I love what you're doing. It just needs to be what, higher up? Like, I, I don't know. I, I feel like I've never really experienced where a guy really has no idea what is going on down there.

Yeah, it's not pleasant.

Yeah.

I mean, so one great resource that we, we have these foreplay guides where we have super specific and detailed illustrated techniques. And so we love recommending couples get those together because it really levels the playing field. You feel like you're both kind of like learning new techniques together and you can try things out together. It makes it feel fun to learn new techniques rather than like, oh my God, now I've got to teach you what to do. But another technique that you can do, I call it the eye exam technique. Like, you know when you go get an eye examination and they're like, okay, what's better? Like this one or this one kind of thing. So compare two techniques against each other. So it gives you A little bit of information to go off of. Because, like, if you ask somebody, tell me what you like, that just feels like a really big question. It's hard to answer. Like, I can't give a super step by step, like, do exactly this and then exactly that. Like, it's just. It's too big of a question. But if Xander's going down on me and he's like, okay, what do you like better? If I lick like this or I lick like that, I use this pressure with my tongue or. Or I use this pressure with my tongue, then it's like, I have options to choose from. And he's not feeling like I'm criticizing him because I'm picking the one that's better.

Right.

And it's like this fun kind of. We're exploring together, trying different things. So you can switch off, like, I'll do it to you and then you do it to me. But if you compare different techniques, and again, it can be specific stroke. It can be pressure, it can be speed. It can be, like, two completely different activities. Like, do you like it better when I finger you or go down on you? But it's just a more fun way to explore and give that feedback to each other.

Okay, I love that.

I'm assuming also I'm thinking of other things. I bet there's a lot of, like, guys putting their finger inside of you because they think that's what they're supposed to do.

So I like that a lot. But you mean during.

Like, there's especially younger. I feel like we. We have talked about this. Like, the term fingering. Some people don't know exactly. I mean, it can mean putting your fingers inside. But some women don't like that. And they're like, you're supposed to be, like, playing with my clit or, like, the outside as opposed to, like, just jamming your fingers inside. So I feel like that can be a little difficult to redirect.

Yeah. So that can be a fun one of, like, oh, do you like it better when I put my fingers inside of you on your clit? Or I do both at the same time, you know, so that could be something to explore. But, yeah, I think a lot of men, I mean, and they're again, they're conditioned by tv, movies, porn to believe that the penetration is like the be all, end all. So the funny comparison that I like to make is, like, it's really important for us to think about it from a nerve ending standpoint of, like, what parts of our bodies are actually wired to feel a lot of pleasure. And the interesting thing, too is that our genitals, we all start off basically as one gender in the womb. And our genitals don't differentiate until, like, 8 to 11 weeks. So different parts of our genitals actually match up with different parts of, like, male genitals. So the vagina, the equivalent of the vagina in a woman is actually called the prostatic utricle in a man, which is like, where. No, no man is out there expecting, like, where are my prostatic utricle orgasms? Like, how do I get that? So that all sounds a little complicated. So I like to boil it down and just say, like, intercourse for a woman is basically like stroking a man's balls. So, like, sure, that might be fun. It could be pleasurable. If you have balls that are really sensitive, great. Explore that. Play with those balls. But would we expect the vast majority of men to be wildly orgasmic from a lower little ball stroking? No. So why are we setting this expectation for women that we should be wildly orgasmic from a part of our body that just does not have very many nerve endings?

That's interesting to.

So guys get that a little bit more. I'm like, let's imagine an alternate universe where intercourse is like a guy rubbing his balls on a woman's clitoris. I'm like, I'm getting the stimulation of the most sensitive part of my body, and you're getting stimulation of a very insensitive part of your body. Why is that not working for you?

Yeah, yeah.

I would get off instantly. You could rub anything on my clip, Even your balls.

Rub those on.

And I also like just taking someone's hand gently. But I think it can be hot. I mean, I don't know, maybe I think that to do that in like a sexy way, just like moving someone a little bit from, like, where they were previously. Sometimes I think you can do it without words. But if it's, you know, you gotta feel the moment out.

Yeah. I like to. I like a request. I love stick your fingers inside of me. I like when somebody goes down on me and is, like, sucking on my clit and fingering me. I like the whole shebang. But what if. What if somebody is like, my man just does it doesn't go down on me at all.

Yeah, that's where it's going to be. Time to, like, make a direct request of them. And so I always like to start again with framing it in a positive way. Like, you know, it sounds so hot to me. Or again, we can do a little bit of fibbing. Like, I had this incredibly sexy dream last night about you going down on me. I can't get it out of my mind. Like, I would love for you to do that. You can even turn it into this fun thing about, like, you know, why don't we have a little oral only night tonight? Like, I'll go down on you, you.

Go down on me.

So you make it feel playful rather than coming in hot with the, like, you motherfucker, you never go down on me. I'm so pissed you don't care. You know, like, make it feel more fun.

And I. I'm sure there's also a world, especially if we're talking to younger people, that they just are intimidated because they don't think they know what they're doing. And they've heard women say, like, he's so bad at this, and he can't find the clit. And so they've gotten in their head and they were never really taught. I don't know how you really learn. I don't know how guys learn. I don't know if it's like a man.

Yeah. Another story that I tell in the book is at this same time, I was noticing that, like, Xander just really wasn't paying very much attention to my pleasure. It was very intercourse focused. He wasn't really, like. He'd touch me or go down on me for like, 30 seconds, and then we'd move on. And I kept getting the sense of, like, God, this was actually a bit earlier in the relationship. I'm like, God, this guy seems so amazing in so many other ways, but, like, he kind of seems like an asshole in the bedroom, and I don't understand what's going on. And so I finally got up the nerve to talk to him about it, and. And it turned out his last girlfriend before me had said, like, she had a lot of orgasm issues. And she's like, actually it really puts women on the spot if you, like, finger them and go down on them for a long time. So it's the more polite thing to do, to just move ahead. And so he was thinking he was being this nice guy of like, oh, I've got the cheat code to women, and I know what women want. He thought he was being so kind and sensitive. And I was over here thinking, like, God, this guy is a. Such. Such an. So again, this is, like, why I'm so passionate about communication. Like, I could have very easily broken up with him. Like, this guy is a selfish asshole in the bedroom. I'm over it. But Instead, by just opening up that conversation, I realized, like, there was this awful miscommunication. I don't know why this woman said that to him in the first place, but, like, it was very easy for us to reset from there and realize, like, oh, you want me to go down on you? Oh, my God, I'm totally happy to do that.

Well, we say that all the time, that people are just a product of their. The partners they've had before you and what pleasured. If we're talking about a man, what the. What his girlfriend girlfriends before you liked. I mean, Raina doesn't like guys going down on her for some insane reason. So if a guy dated her for a long period of time, especially very seriously, especially if, you know, it was his first serious relationship but you just didn't like it, he absolutely would think the next partner just didn't like it. So I'm glad that you brought that. That up, because we have discussed that before and how they're just going off the last one. And sometimes I think what we like to hammer home to, especially any men listening, is, like, every woman's body's different. So just because you blew some woman's mind doesn't mean what you're doing is going to blow the mind of the next one.

And I think it's important for women to recognize, too, like, it's very sexy to tell your partner what you want.

Yes.

You know, like, we're. We are all desperate for more feedback, and in the bedroom, like, we all want to know, am I doing a good job? Do you like this? What could I do to be the best that you've ever had? Right. And so we get so scared on the other end of that of, like, oh, I don't want to give feedback. I don't want to tell them anything but, like, that. It's so valuable to hear that. And a lot of people are just desperate to hear, like, I would love.

For you to do this to me.

You would turn me on so much if you did this.

Yes, it turns me on to turn another person on. I mean, that's what I really enjoy. And I think kind feedback is great. I don't mind at all. And I think how I would want it if I was, like, giving a blowjob to somebody and they stopped me at any point. I don't think I'd love that. Or if, you know, right after sex, they were like, I didn't really enjoy that experience. Like, it would really hurt or upset me. And I feel like there's just kinder ways to bring it up. But I am happy for the feedback because then I'm like, how great is this? I get to be even better at this for you?

Yeah, absolutely. Another great word that you can use, too, when you're making requests is, like, just use the word curious. I'm curious about trying this. I'm curious to see what this would be like, because sometimes when we give feedback, it can set up this dynamic of, like, I'm the teacher and you're the student, and there's this power imbalance of, like, now I'm coming in here and, like, teaching you what to do or telling you what to do. But if you use the word curious, it just kind of. It levels that playing field again, and it makes it feel like your partner's not being judged. It's like, oh, well, they're just curious to see. And it gives you a little bit more sense space, too. Of like, well, I don't have to guarantee that I'm going to like something in order to ask for it. I just have to, like, be curious enough to know what it's going to be like.

Okay, so we wanted to talk about a little bit of, like, technique, and we'd have on our list banking, joking down on you.

And I sent her an email with this yesterday. I was like, this is our work emails.

Yeah, well, well. So I. It's funny because I've been doing a lot of just research in my standup of asking guys if they're choking. And I have this whole thing that, like, Gen Z is just not choking. Seen, like millennials do and older guys do. And I don't know if they're scared or they're timid or they're not sure what to do. They're. Yeah, well, which consent. We can't, you know, we of course consent, but I just. I think it's intimidating, too, you know? And I think, of course, not all women want a hand on their neck. But I've been kind of interested in this topic of guys that are like, I would never do that. And it's like, you should try to.

Get into it that. Xander. No, it was so funny. I got your email and we were having breakfast this morning. I was like, like, let's run through the topics that they want me to talk about. So we're like, loudly talking about spanking. He got all excited, like, oh, don't forget to tell him to do da, da, da. Just, like, yelling about spanking and choking in the middle of this restaurant.

Oh, my gosh. Great.

It's been spanking.

I mean, I. I love it. I've always loved it. And I'll tell someone to do it. And I usually get what I want. But I also see a world in which a guy, for example, has never done that, and he's like, you want me to hit you?

Yeah. Like, Xander got really nervous about the choking, and he's like, you know, I've only ever seen it in porn where it's like. Like, it's really aggressive, and it feels, like violating and creepy and gross and, like, I'm nervous. I don't want to hurt you. It just, like, doesn't sound right. So let's start with choking, so.

Which also, we do choking tutorials at our shows, too. So we're. Raven and I are out on these streets, really.

We're choking pros. We know all the different kinds. If you've used two hands, you have gone too far.

If you're choking from the top. I also, I always tell K, like, don't go top. Two hands.

Then you're just strangling. And that's.

Maybe someone want it. I don't. I have.

I was surprised. We've had to tell people, don't come from behind with both hands.

Oh, gosh. No, no, no, no.

At the show, we were in Phoenix, and we brought these guys up and ra.

The waiters at the venue.

Yeah. There was not enough guys, so we brought the staff up, and this one guy, Raina, was like, why don't you show. Show us how you would choke Ashley. And he was like, okay.

And he came from behind with both.

And we have this image of me like this. And the way he thought he knew exactly what he was doing.

Yeah. He stepped right up to the plate. He ran there.

But then, like, Andrew Collin, for example, a friend of ours, I did his podcast, like, years ago, and he was like, can you just show me, like, how. How you do it? And at first, he did too much pressure. The fingertips. I was like, you gotta do, like, a cuff.

Yeah. Like, don't want to touch my trachea.

Nothing on the front. Only the sides of this. And you can do this to yourself. Like, the sides of your thumb. Throat are pretty tough, but even the slightest bit of pressure on the front of your throat, and you're, like, starting to choke.

I'm like, it's my wind by blacking out.

Okay. So anyway, so if you.

If you're a guy who's nervous about it and you've never done it before, like, a really great way to ease your way into it is just, like, start to caress your hand up the neck, and you don't even have to squeeze. It's just like, putting a little bit of pressure there. And that movement of, like, you can move from, like, the breast up to the neck, like, that's super sexy. And you see if your partner is, like, restrained responding to that. So that's a great way to start. But then, yeah, if you do want to squeeze, you want to do it really lightly. Like, I think people underestimate how gentle you can go and still make an impact. But again, the pressure is only on the sides. It's never on the front of the throat.

I just love everything in my neck area. Like, kissing, like, hands, all the things. So I think you can even do that making out. Like, I'd love.

Oh, yeah.

So we always say, like, if a guy's got his hand on your neck when you're making out, you're like, it's on.

So I think the back of the neck, too, very underrated. But the nape of your hair.

Yes.

Oh, my God. So sensitive.

So I. I think that this is.

These are the.

The things we want people to know. And I know, you know, mostly of our audience is women, but them even relating to their partner and of course, like, slipping them. This episode is just. It's not as intimidating as you think. And it's can. You don't have to go 0 to 60.

Yeah.

If you've never choked somebody before, it can start. Yeah. Soft at the neck. Yeah.

I mean, this is another sneaky way that the sexual perfectionism comes creeping into our sex life, is that we all feel like we have to go 0 to 60 immediately. And it's like, there's something really great about taking small steps and easing your way in. And there's a lot to explore, too. Like, a little gentle caress up your throat can be way more pleasurable than, like, a tight squeeze. So it's like, don't. Don't downplay them as, like, oh, they're little baby steps. It's like, no, they're really sexy, fun, exciting things that you can do.

And it's not easy for everybody. I've had, like, experiences where somebody's choking me and their arm is laying your neck a little bit, and it really.

It feels.

I mean, nobody's trying to be violent with you, of course, but it feels a little violent or it hurts. And I don't know how to stop them because the point is to, like, be a little bit scary and dangerous.

Well, that's what happened to Me in Greece, I was like, I'm in a chokehold.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm just going to let him finish. I think I'll tap out. I'll tap out if I need.

When he comes, are you faint?

Little safe word might be good to use too, if you're going to do some, like, intense choking.

For sure.

Okay, so I like these choking tips. Let's go to spanking.

Okay.

So spanking is kind of the opposite. We're choking. A lot of people underestimate, like, how gently you can do it with spanking. A lot of people think that you should go soft.

No, we know also we people. I can't tell you. Many times I've been softly spanked, and it really gives me the ick. Please stop. Winds up like, they're gonna spank you really hard and you just get a tap. It is so ick.

Wait. Raina's turn offs include too light of a spank. That's what gives you the ick.

I completely resonate. There's nothing worse.

There's nothing worse when you think they're winding up for like a real hit and they just graze your butt cheek like they caress it. We do this in our lives.

But I get it. I get that they're scared to hit you.

I know. Well, some guys are. Other guys go way too hard. We do sort of live shows sometimes, and, like, I'll be bent over the chair and they will knock the chair over with me.

Falls into me. I'm like, you should get his number.

Yeah. Actually, like, catches me. I've walked 10ft from this bank.

I don't know. I think that your butt can handle a lot. And I. I mean, I've been at points where I'm like, I'm about to come and it does hurt. And I'm like, I'm sure my ass is, like, bright red. But I'm. I'll tell you, tell you to stop if I don't want it anymore. But I have kind of, like, gritted my teeth and taken it because I'm like, close. And it's like that pleasure and pain. I mean, I just think not everybody can handle that much, but I actually.

Is a high pay.

Our asses are equipped to handle. To handle it. But then sometimes I'm like, can you just get the other cheek? Like, I feel so imbalanced.

Yeah, switch it up a little.

Like that's the one with the dent in it. Like, just do the other.

They're left cheek focused. Okay. Also, you have to spank me like you mean it. Dirty talk, too. I feel like I can tell if you don't mean it. You know, like when somebody calls me a slut and they don't mean it. I can tell.

We get very fixated on technique with sex, but the energy behind that technique is energy just as important.

Okay. We have totally derailed you. How do you get guys to spank you?

For anyone to spank, I want to talk about the energy spanking.

So if you're in a relationship, I recommend that you have a little spanking session outside of the bedroom so you can get a sense of the level of pressure that you guys each like. Because it's too much in the bedroom. It's like, in the moment where it's either too soft and it gives you the ick or it's too hard and you're like, tears coming down your face. So do it outside the bedroom.

I love that.

And have your partner, like, start kind of soft and work their way up and then tell them the level of pressure that you like. So it's like getting a sense. This is also a really great trick to use for hand jobs because a lot of women and underestimate how much pressure you can use on a penis. So you can, like, grab it and, like, squeeze and have him, like, you slowly squeeze tighter and have him tell you, like, that's the level of pressure that I like.

Wait, I love that.

Yeah, that's a fun exercise. So valuable you will be.

We're doing hand job squeezing tonight. After we watch, you'll be shocked by.

How hard you can go. A lot of women are doing, like, the sad spank equivalent of a hand job. Just, like, barely. Barely.

They're lightly grazing it. Yeah.

So we got to squeeze it like you mean it. So. Okay. Other things with spanking is, like, the location is important too. Like, if you're too close into the crack, like, you can hit the tailbone or you can hit the hip as well. So when you're in the moment, one thing to do is, like, use your hand to kind of, like, caress the butt. So we're not spanking it. We're just caressing it. And, like, use that to kind of find in the meatiest area. That's where we want spanking to happen. So you use your hand to kind of, like, find it, and then when. Once you found it, like, then go in for the spank.

Got it.

Yeah. I'm not that I'm. I'm the one that spanking, but totally, I. I'm thinking of when guys have done that like. Yes. They're finding where they're about to just wind up.

If you don't know your target, like, it's very easy to go off. And then you're like, funny.

You have to like find your target first.

The fleshy part of the fun.

And it doesn't. When they do it in the wrong part, it doesn't even make a good sound. You're like, that felt flat.

You just smack your side. There's no pleasure zones there. You're just punching me on the side of my body.

You gotta find the spot.

Okay.

Okay.

I want to talk about energy for a second though. Like, what if you're like, I just know his energy doesn't say, I want to spank you.

Yeah, it's. That's a tricky one. Like, so you might have to have this conversation with them, like asking him like, or just giving him that positive feedback of, I love it when spank me. I think it's so hot. It turns me on so much. A lot of guys, like, get worried about hurting you or like, I don't want to do that if it feels like degrading to you. So you might just need to lead with that.

I love being degraded.

Yeah. So you literally say that to your partner. Like, that turns me on when you do that, when you get into that kind of energy. But I think even just talking about, like, what is the kind of energy that you most like to experience during sex? So it's different for everybody. It can be different in every moment or like in every interaction. Interaction. But like, what is that vibe that you're going for? I mean, this is another thing couples very rarely talk about. But I love picking, like, pick your five favorite words that you most frequently, you know, want to experience during sex. So is it like curiosity? Is it exploration? Is it romance? You know, they can be totally varied. But I think one of the most important ones is enthusiasm. Like, somebody can have the best technique in the world, but if you can tell, tell they're just not into it, maybe they're not even present in the moment. They're just going through the motions. Like, that's some of the worst sex ever.

Yes. I dated somebody like that. Perfect dick, great body, good looking guy. I was just like, am I bothering you?

Yeah.

Right.

And I feel like you hear that with blowjobs where, oh yeah, guys just say, I just want you to be enjoying it.

And I feel like the number one technique for a blow job, if you are enthusiastic about it, you can have really shitty technique. But if you're really into it. He's gonna.

It's a life hack. Okay, can we just go back to spanking really quick? I'm ready to do our spank whole episode. You know what? I think it's funny that when guys vary in technique, it's a quick. And they pop back out or they kind of hold their hand there, like.

You know what I'm saying?

Like, it's either like, they do lap and they hold it or they go.

And it's funny when they just, like, they leave their hand.

But it's also kind of like, I think, tell me if it kind of compares. You wouldn't really understand. But, like, when you do, when you get bikini waxed, and the second they rip a thing off, they put their hand there to, like, kind of like.

Yeah, that is the technique is it kind of helps dull the pressure.

So if you're doing.

Doing a really intense spank, that actually is a good way to, like, dull it. But if you want to feel the pain of it, then take the hand away and you'll feel it more.

Like, it's funny. When you're having sex with someone, you're like, oh, that's their technique, huh? It's more the quick Pop, pop. Maybe we just end with 69ing.

I gotta be honest, guys. I'm just not a 69 fan person.

I just. Yeah.

Like, we wondered if you had any.

No, no. I can. I just always have to be honest about that. I'm like, I like the giving or the receiving at one.

Totally.

Okay. But a great technique for 69ing is try going on your sides instead of top to bottom. So a lot of people don't like 69 in because they're like, somebody's face is always in somebody's ass, and it's just like, balls.

It's hard to.

If you're the one on top, it's like. It's kind of hard. You're, like, hovering, but you need to use your hands to brace you up. But you also want to use your hands to, like, do a blow job or a hand job or whatever it is. So it can be a little bit tricky. But if you flip over onto your sides, you can still have that configuration of, like, heads are in genitals, but it's a more comfortable position to be in for some people. You've got, like, an arm that's a little bit more free to help you work.

Okay, I love that.

Great. That's a great tip. I like just side sex anyway. Aside from 69 in, like, wake up in the morning. Yeah. So just kind of take that into your 69.

Yeah. And also with 69ing, you can do just your hands. So I think a lot of people feel like you have to do oral sex, but, like, you could do just your hands because hands are a lot easier to do as well, and some people just prefer that. So it's fine. It counts if it's just hands.

I'm excited for the next person I date to do this hand job night.

Yeah, I'm just like, harder, Harder.

How much more? Just looks so funny to me.

I think hand jobs are one of the most underrated sex acts. People write them off, but no, we love them. I love.

I love the stroke a deck.

They're fun to do. And a lot of people are like, oh, he can do it better than, you know, than I can. No, no, it's very fun to have it done to you.

He doesn't have to do it. Isn't that nice?

And then he teaches you how to.

Do it, and then.

Yeah, it's very fun.

Oh, my gosh, Vanessa, this was so wonderful. I love this conversation so much. Do you feel like anything was left out?

You're dying. I mean, I could sit here and talk. Okay.

I know.

We'll have to have you back. We'll do it in la.

I would love to catch up.

I'm so excited that you guys are coming out.

We are too. We can't wait. Yeah, we'll do. I love all your episodes are great. So people are looking for a podcast to listen to about. You have a 69 episode. You have a squirting episode. I was really get granular.

We have a child free episode too. I know that that was something that you guys did. That's our most popular one.

Wow. Yeah.

Are you excited we're going to child free? Yeah.

Good for you. I loved you. Love to see you.

I really want to listen to that because we came at that from obviously, two single women. And so. So I'm definitely gonna cue that up and listen to you guys discuss it as a couple.

You were so great, and this is wonderful. I'm sure everybody's gonna want to find you everywhere they can. Your website, your Instagram, everything. So tell them and then tell them when the book comes out and everything else they can find.

Yeah. So I would love to connect with your audience on Instagram. We'reNessa and Xander, shoot us a DM. Let us know you found out about me on Girls Gotta eat. We have a ton of information on Instagram too. Like we do stories, like I was saying, every day. So it's a great way to just, like, get the conversation going. Sometimes we even do stories where we say things that, like, okay, you watch the story and just crank the volume up so your partner is, like, in the background, and they hear it. Like, wait, what? What are you talking about? So that's a great way to get it started too.

I love that.

That's great.

I mean, we always say, use our podcast as a gateway to a discussion that you want to have. And I like that. That just, like, crank up the volume when something.

We put up a question question box. It's like, what's something that you want us to say out loud so you can play it when your partner's in the room.

I love that your partner comes around the corner. He's like, what was that about choking you harder?

It's a great, like, great way to teach your partner something without having to.

Stand in the apartment. That is so funny.

So come say hi on Instagram. And we have a ton of information on our highlights about all of our different guides and courses. The foreplay guides, we have, like, next level intercourse. All kinds of fun stuff. And then we're also online at VEED. It's my initials. The book Sex Talks comes out February. We're so excited about it. And yeah, our podcast, Pillow Talks on all major podcast platforms.

Oh, my gosh. Love a February release.

We do. We love February.

It's my podcast. I love When's your birthday? The 13th.

Love it.

And also, I just want to say this episode is pretty heteronormative. People with penis, you really do make an effort to be pretty inclusive with your business. I've noticed.

Yeah, absolutely.

As well.

The inclusivity is really important to us.

Obviously.

Obviously. Xander and I are male, female couple, so we try to, like, call that out. But we. We think everybody's deserving of hot sex and deep love. So we make a really big effort to make everything inclusive.

Good. Well, we loved having you. Thank you for being here with us. We really appreciate it. Ashley's just gonna take us out.

Yes. Well, since this is a sex episode, we'll go ahead and plug Vibes only. You guys can shop all of our products@vibesonly.com you can download the app for iPhone and Android. It's called Vibes Only, of course. And of course, pair them together. And girls gotta eat dot com. You can get our tour dates, get tickets for our Snack city tour in 2023. Girls Gotta Eat podcast on Instagram. I am Ash Hess on everything. Raina is Raina Greenberg. We are Girls gotta eat podcast on TikTok. Girls underscore gotta eat on Twitter. And of course, subscribe to the YouTube and watch on YouTube and we'll see you next week.

Have a good week, guys. Bye.

At.

Brian.

At. Brian. As it. Was.