Pillow Talks EPISODE 6: This is why your partner won't work on your relationship with you and how

You and I are a team. If something bothers one of us, it should matter to both of us. Hello, and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Xander Marin. I'm a sex therapist with 20 years.

Of experience, and I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.

So make sure to subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. I want us to go to therapy. Do you remember when I said that to you many, many years ago?

I thought you were about to say many, many times.

I probably did ask you to go to therapy with me many, many times.

True. I do remember.

This was really early on in our relationship. We were going through some pretty big struggles with Xander overworking us, really not spending very much time together, just starting to drift apart, starting to feel more like roommates than partners.

Yeah.

And I think, you know, at that time, I was the one who was more conscious of the changes that were happening in our relationship. I was the one who's more conscious of, like, feeling scared about where's our relationship going? What's happening? Why does it feel so different from what it used to feel like? And it was a really scary thing for me to ask you to go to therapy, and it was even scarier that for a while, you were not interested in doing that. And fortunately, you came around and we did go to therapy. We'll probably talk about this period in our relationship in future podcast episodes, but today we want to talk about how to get your partner to work on your. Your relationship with you, because it is.

Very unlikely that you both want to work on the exact same things at the exact same time. I think that's a very common dynamic in relationships. I will say that you can get to the point where you do both get motivated to work on stuff together, but very often it takes someone to kind of be the initiator or the leader. And that very first time, especially if you haven't really, I don't know, put in work before or been to therapy or just had an open conversation about what working on your relationship means to you, it can feel really scary, especially for the person who's being asked.

Yeah. So we just, you know, we want to share that little tidbit of our story to help normalize. Like, this happens for almost all couples. Like, it's very rare for both partners to be on exactly the same page at exactly the same time. So you're definitely going a period in your relationship where one partner wants to work on the relationship and the other partner doesn't. And I'm glad that we are talking about it in our relationship so people can see, like, it's not that Xander was a terrible person or he's such a jerk, or, you know, he never came around to it or anything like that. Like, he was afraid. This was a hard thing for us, and we got through it. Just like, we think you can get through this too.

Oh, yeah.

Okay. So we asked our community on Instagram, have you ever struggled to get your partner to work on your relationship with you? And a whopping 71% of people said that they have.

And of those 71% of people who do want to work on stuff, here is what they want to work on. We got a whole variety of responses, but far and away, like, very significantly, the most common one was communication. Like, I eyeballed the responses. I want to say, like, 40 to 50%.

Oh, yeah.

Easily maybe even more than half of them were communication. So if you want to be ahead of the curve, people who haven't yet tried working on their relationship, you could just start by suggesting doing something communication related, and you might win some huge, huge brownie points.

Oh, yeah, that's a good tip.

Yeah. The second one is sex and intimacy. I think that's another one where you're gonna get brownie points if you suggest working on that area. I think that's something that is always positive. So that was. Those were one and two communication, then sex and intimacy. Some of the other popular ones were quality time together, I assume, kind of like spending more quality time or carving out quality time. Finances, probably how you interact around finances, boundaries around finances, all of that stuff. Relationship responsibilities, personal growth and parenting strategies.

All the big ones.

So, yeah, I don't. No real shockers in this list, but I do think it's really interesting that communication was far and away number one.

Yeah. We will definitely be plotting lots of upcoming podcast episodes about communication. So let's talk about, like, what does it mean to work on your relationship?

Oh, yeah. So this is such an interesting one because I think you. A lot of people hear that term, we need to work on this. And, like, immediately you go to that place of, like, work. Like, work doesn't sound good. Like, I just got home from work. I don't want to work on anything else.

Exactly. So that's A little sneak peek ahead that we are going to try to give you a different definition of what work on your relationship means. But I think a lot of people think of, you know, working on their relationship as, like, you put work in, you put effort in to solve problems in your relationship. So if you have not yet listened to one of our very first episodes of the podcast about can you actually solve the problems in your relationship? Definitely go back and take a listen to that. Because we talk about the fact that 69% of conflicts in relationships are actually unresolvable. So definitely make sure to check that one out. Similarly, I think a lot of people think that you only need to work on your relationship when things are really bad. Like, oh, you know, people are talking about breaking up, or you've had some huge fights. Now this is when we need to work on our relationship to save it. So the way that we want to encourage you to think about your relationship is that your relationship cannot survive without effort. So let's see if you can imagine this. So let's say you get a puppy and you decide that you're not going to give her any food or water. You're not going to take her on walks. You're just going to let her be naturally in your house, because your house.

Is so natural for a dog. Yeah.

And so you'll just say, like, you know, she's fine. If she gets sick, I'll take her.

To the vet and they'll feed her at the vet. Right? They'll feed her and they'll water her. So that's why you don't need to do it. You don't need to spend any money on food or water. Maybe probably not spending money on the water, but you know what I mean, because, you know, the vet's got that when she's about to die, so. Jesus.

So obviously this sounds like a completely ridiculous scenario that we put in front of you, but the reality is a lot of couples are doing this with their relationships, like saying, oh, just let the relationship be. Just let it do its thing, and not putting in any effort to actually take care of it. So if we think it's so ridiculous to do something like this with a puppy, and why should we be thinking this should be any different with a relationship? So we really want to reframe work as a way of proactively protecting and strengthening your relationship. And honestly, like, even just giving it the bare bones things that it needs to survive, like the food and the water for the puppy. So the way that Xander and I like to think about working on relationships is to think about what are these, like, simple, daily, very practical things that we can do to just nourish our relationship. And I like to think about this as, like, 10 minutes a day. What can I do? 10 minutes a day. Everybody has 10 minutes in a day. I don't care how busy you are, you can find 10 minutes. So what can we do in those 10 minutes to take care of our relationship?

Yeah, I think that's so powerful. Cause I know in our. In our situation, when things were tough for us, we had not been putting in those 10 minutes a day in the, you know, six to 12 months beforehand. And so for me, I just felt like, man, I am so busy. I'm working my ass off. I am stressed. And then there were these what felt to me like really big requests for really putting in a lot of extra work. And I just felt so burnt out, like I didn't have it in me to do that work. I was just hoping that, you know, my. My work situation was going to get better in a couple of months, which, of course, never actually happens like that. But, yeah, I was just like, oh, yes, things will. Things will magically change on their own. And it just felt like, man, I. I couldn't possibly. Possibly set aside enough time to do this work that we need. And that was really scary.

Yeah. I think when we save working on our relationship until things are really bad, or we think of it only as solving problems, it feels like work. It feels like, oh, my God, we have to have this huge conversation about this dynamic, or we have to, like, repair after this enormous fight that we had. We're exhausted, and now we have to do all this additional work. But if you can shift your mindset and think about it as, how can I nurture my relationship? How can I take. Take care of my relationship? It takes less time. It feels way more fun, and it's way more effective.

Oh, yeah.

So the other piece of this that I like to think about is can we think about this as taking our relationship from good to great? So I have another, like, kind of funny comparison here for you. So let's say I can tell you, like, all right, you can make $30,000 a year, or you can spend 10 extra minutes a day, and you could make $100,000 a year. So why would you not want to do that?

All right, all right, hold on a second. You're telling me I can work 10 more minutes? I'm going to make more than three times the money? That seems a little out of whack.

Don't check my math on this here. Obviously, there's no way to turn my little salary example into, like, what your relationship will feel like. But I genuinely do think that if you could put 10 minutes a day into your relationship, into really nurturing and taking care of it, and it would feel wildly different. So much better than if you're just letting it try to, like, subsist on its own.

So I'm gonna feel like I'm making $100,000. That's pretty good. Aren't we? I'll go for that. That 100 grand feeling.

So some of the ways that six figure feeling. Should that be the new name of our podcast?

Oh, that's good. Yeah. When we start doing business coaching, the six figure feeling.

Okay, so some of the things that we do to work on our own relationship, Having quality time together without phones around, making sex a priority, even if we are busy or tired. Yes. Sex can be 10 minutes. If you're really busy or really tired and just want to have a little bit of connection. Just saying, get her done. We also have a nightly ritual that we really like to do that if we are super tired or whatever it is, that could take two minutes. But it just feels like a really sweet, nurturing, connecting kind of thing that we do.

I even have a couple even smaller examples. You might hear this and be like, oh, well, that can't possibly make a difference. But I'm telling you, these little things do make huge differences when they add up. They compound, like, day after day. It's kind of, you know, it's like, it's like interest compounding or something.

Like my finance comparison.

Yeah, I know. I'm really just digging into it. But yeah, you know, it's like you put a little bit in the bank every day, and with interest and adding up, it becomes a lot more later on. So, like, another example is this is, you know, for me, I'm a physical touch person. I like to just give it, give and get as many hugs as I can in a day. And so, you know, if we bump into each other in the house or whatever, I'm feeling a little down. I say, hey, can we have a hug?

Yeah.

And so, like, that's really nice. Another thing that we started doing in the last, I don't know, six or seven months is like, whenever the other one enters, like, the room, we each, like, we make an effort to acknowledge the person who's entered. Be like, oh, hi.

Yeah.

And like, it sounds actually out. I am hearing myself say that and it sounds really almost creepy, but this is just. It's so nice. Like, I noticed Vanessa doing this a lot. Like, we. Our house has an upstairs and a downstairs. And so, like. Like, I would walk down the stairs, and Vanessa would be sitting on the couch, and she'd be like, hi. I feel like, wow, that feels really good. And I asked her about it one day. She's like, oh, yeah, I've been trying to make more of an effort to acknowledge you. And I was like, wow, that's cool. And so we both do that for each other now. And I feel like it's one of those things in the moment. Maybe you don't really notice it, but then it's like, over the course of a month, you're like, man, my wife really notices me.

Yeah, I do.

Yeah.

Okay, so we could keep going about lots of other ideas of specific things that you could do to work on your relationship. But what we really want to talk about today is addressing those couples where, you know, you really want to work on your relationship, but your partner doesn't want to. So let's talk a little bit about. Why do people hesitate to work on their relationships? Like, if we're describing it in this beautiful, sunny, wonderful way, like, why the heck are people not wanting to jump on board? So, there actually are a lot of reasons, of course. So I think one of the main ones is that we're taught to believe that relationships should just work and if you're with the right person. So kind of that. That fairy tale example.

Yeah. This being with the right person myth, this is so perpetuated in movies, love stories, romance novels, fairy tales.

You're reading a lot of romance novels these days?

No. You know what? Sidebar. I'm not sure if I've ever read a romance novel. Have you?

No, I haven't.

You've never read one like, an airport one?

Oh, I've read, like, fifty Shades of Gray. I don't know if that counts.

I mean, I think that's, like, romance plus.

Category in the library.

R plus. There's some good stuff in there.

Okay, so getting back to the.

Yeah, let me. Let me back. Let me backtrack a little bit now. So before the R + aisle, you just have the romance stuff, and that's where this myth is so perpetuated. It's kind of like at the beginning, you do put in work, and. But it's. It's putting in work to overcome the odds. Like, you know, like, I'm thinking. I don't know why this movie always Comes to mind probably because I saw it when I was 13. She's all that, like. Oh, yeah, that's like the first movie. I always think of saying popular, good looking, popular guy makes a bet with his friend that, like, he can turn the, you know, the. The art girl into prom queen. She's not gonna get along with his friends. She's not beautiful. But. Oh, wait, we can, like, all we.

Have to do is take off her glasses.

Yeah, all we have to do is take off her glasses and wha. Bam.

Will I be prettier if I take my glasses off?

No, you're beautiful just the way you are. Thank you.

But, yeah, no, you're right. There's always this, like, oh, we have to overcome the odds, or, like, turn the bad boy into the good guy and. But then it's like, ah, then you're just happily ever after.

Yeah. It's like, oh, okay, cool. Now we're, like, set for life. We're married. Like, she's cool, she's beautiful. Like, they can finally be together.

Yeah. So. Okay. Another reason why people are so hesitant to work on their relationships is I think it can just feel really tiring. Like, you were talking about that before. You know, you come home from work, you're exhausted from a long day, and it's like, oh, my God, we have to, like, talk about this. Someone on Instagram said it feels exhausting. It's hard to want to take on additional work when I'm already doing so much.

Oh, yeah. I mean, for me, like, I would get home from work and then we would have a struggle or something. I would be like, I just want a break. Like, all I want is a break. I just, like, I just want, like, a day or two to, like, relax, to not have to worry about anything. Like, I've already been worrying about all kinds of stuff at work, and, like, now I just have more to worry about. And it just feels like you're, like, dug into this hole.

I keep thinking about R and I just am cracking up. I'm trying really hard not to. Especially as we're talking about these serious topics.

I thought you were having some, like, serious feels from back in the day. I'm glad she's laughing at my jokes.

Okay. Another reason is that it can feel really scary to work on your relationship. I think especially if things are not in a great place between you and your partner. You know, sometimes we don't want to acknowledge that we are going through challenges or struggles. Sometimes it feels easier to just bury our heads in the sand. Rather than having to ask ourselves these questions of like, wow, this is a lot of work. Is this too much work? Are we incompatible? Like, it can feel really overwhelming.

Oh, yeah. And I mean, and also then there's this whole aspect of like, not wanting to necessarily even look around enough to get to a point where you might need to acknowledge, like, have I done something wrong? Have I hurt this other person that I love? Is there something that I need to work on? It's like your brain has this built in defense mechanism where it's like, well, if you just ignore that, then everything's fine and that. But that's not really how the world works. It's. You can bury your head in the sand up into a point and then, and then you're drowning in sand, and then you can't.

So when you and I were talking about this episode, we started having a side conversation about another dynamic that, for me, like, I found it really fascinating talking about this with you. So about the ways that men are discouraged from talking about their emotions. So we don't want to assume that everybody listening to this podcast is in a heterosexual relationship, but for those of you who are, this might be kind of interesting for you.

Yeah, well, I think we've probably talked about this in previous episodes as well, that men are generally not socialized to be super in tune with their emotions. You know, to be masculine is to, you know, to not be emotional. Then on top of that, such a big part of masculinity is this idea of being a competent man. Like, he doesn't ask questions, he knows how to do things.

He doesn't need help.

He doesn't need help. Yeah. And so when you get into these types of discussions about, like, is something off in our relationship? Do we need to fix something? Do we need to work on something? He can feel like his masculinity is being challenged. So, like, it's basically like, you don't know how to do relationships. Like, you're not, you're not a man, you're not competent.

So, and let's be honest, like, I think in heterosexual relationships, the vast majority of the time it's the woman coming to the man saying, hey, I want us to work on something. Because as women, we are socialized to be more in tune with our emotions. We're socialized to be more like, into personal growth and development. And so it's usually the woman initiating that. And so that's. That was really interesting to me. Like, I asked you that the other day, like, did it feel, you know, how did it feel when I was bringing these things to you, saying I wanted to work on it, it. And that it. It really struck a chord with you, like, with your ego?

Yeah. So for me, it really felt like, yeah, like, I'm doing a bad job at relationships, and that wasn't the way I wanted to see myself. And on top of that, you know, like, I recognize that Vanessa is more in tune with her emotions, and I am. Vanessa is better at communicating than I am. You know, I think at this time in our lives, Vanessa was probably, like, in grad school or just had graduated from grad school in psychology. So, like, I was like, oh, she has all these communication skills that I don't have. And I kind of put her on a pedestal. Like, oh, like, she's just, like, this perfect communicator. And I didn't really want to acknowledge that. Like, that, like, yeah, like, if I was going to have to work on this relationship, I was gonna have to acknowledge that I did not have very good communication skills compared to her, that I was, quote, way worse than she was at all of these things, and that didn't feel like something I really wanted to acknowledge.

And sidebar. I'm definitely not perfect at communicating, but.

Well, I've come to realize that I'm.

Glad you no longer operate under that.

So, yeah, here's the thing. If you kind of, like, related with me when I was saying that, what I can tell you is that as you work on things that, you know, your partner may objectively be better at than you right now. The better you get, the more you tend to see the areas where they are not perfect in that either.

Yeah, none of us are perfect. And that can be a really humanizing and connecting experience for us to realize. Like, hey, we both have things that we want to work on, and we want to work on them together.

Oh, yeah.

So, okay, that one is a little bit of, like, a sidebar there. But we're kind of curious to know, like, should we do an entirely separate episode on why men don't want to work on relationships? Because Xander and I ended up having this very long conversation about all these different dynamics, things that we'd never really talked about before. So DM us on Instagram. We're Vanessa Marin therapy, and let us know if you would like to see a specific episode. Just about that. But for now, we are going to move along. And what we're going to talk about next is some steps for how to start the conversation with your partner, how to get your partner on board with Wanting to work on your relationship with you. And then right after that, we're going to go into some specific responses that your partner might have some reasons why they might turn you down and give you even more tips for that. So let's go into, you know, how to start talking about your relationship with your partner. So the first thing we want to say is start as early in the relationship as possible. So obviously this is not going to be doable for a lot of couples, but if you're in the early stages of your relationship, start talking about this now. Normalize this idea of putting an active effort into your relationship and not waiting until things are really bad. Not thinking of it just as problem solving, thinking of it more as nurturing your relationship.

Yeah. And especially early on, just think about those little, like, 10 minute things that we were kind of referring to earlier on. Like, what are some of these little things that we can start implementing that are going to make things even better? Because I know, I know when things feel good, you're not really thinking about, like, okay, cool. What are more things that I can do? You're like, okay, cool, this is, this is good. Like, I'm going to take my foot off the gas. But yeah, no, keep, keep thinking about those 10 minute things early and often and never stop.

Yeah. Okay, so you are now approaching your partner, going to have this conversation about working on your relationship together. A great first place to start is to start talking about the things that you love about your partner and about your relationship. So this is going to help your partner relax and be more receptive to listening to you rather than you coming in hot with, like, here are all my complaints, all the things you're doing wrong, all the things we need to work on. Like, you know, remind your partner there are plenty of things that you love about them and you love about your relationship. It's also a good thing for you to do. So you kind of calm any nerves that you may have going into this conversation and you remind yourself, hey, things aren't all bad. There are plenty of things that I love about this.

Yeah, I think this is one of the areas where a lot of people mess up when they're trying to have this conversation. And it kind of sets up a dynamic in their relationship where it feels like, no, like, we can't. My partner is actively anti putting in work because, because one partner came to them initially with like a laundry list of complaints. And it just sort of set up this, you know, combative dynamic rather than a collaborative. Because this is also something that Comes up, like, when we talk to people about, like, how to talk about sex for the first time. It's the exact same thing. In the very beginning. You don't want to list out your laundry list of complaints. Like, you want to talk about positive things. Stuff first. So this is just generally a good practice in, you know, most communication things. Don't. Don't jump into the deep end.

Yeah. And I think you can continue focusing on the positive throughout the conversation. And also, like, as you and your partner do start working on your relationship, you can also be, you know, focusing on giving tons of praise to your partner for any effort that you see them put in. Okay, so next up, you're focusing on the positive. Then our next step is to state your reasons for wanting to work on the relationship. So I think, you know, again, a lot of us come in hot with complaints and things that we want to get fixed. And it actually can be much better to focus on the fact that, like, you want to work on your relationship because you want to feel closer to your partner.

Yeah. Because if you. Yeah. Like, if you don't say that, what you. What the partner tends to assume is, like. Like, I'm doing something wrong or like, they make it about themselves rather than hearing why, you know, why you want to work on it for you. Yeah.

So, you know, point out the benefits of working on your relationship, the ways that it'll make you feel closer, more intimate. Maybe it'll improve your sex life. Maybe you guys will have more fun together. And especially if your partner starts to focus on the negative or there are a lot of fears coming up for them, the more that you can remind them of, like, hey, these are my positive intentions. These are the positive benefits that we can have by doing this. It'll really help center that conversation. Another thing that you can do is to talk about the areas that you want to work on yourself. Because I think a lot of times partners hear like, you did this. You're bad at that. You need to change this. And they. They feel attacked, like, it's just all being put on them. And if you take ownership of, like, hey, you know, I want us to work on our communication. I know that I'm not very great at staying calm, you know, when my feelings get hurt, or, you know, stuff like that, where it's like, you're taking ownership, you're acknowledging, I'm not perfect. I want to be working on things, too. That makes it feel like you guys are a team.

Yeah. It's like, I want to work on this even if you were already absolutely perfect, which is already unreasonable, but, like, I would still want to work on our relationship because there's some areas that I want to improve.

Yeah. Okay. So another tip that we have is to consider finding a new or different term. So I think Xander mentioned this at the beginning of the episode. Like, saying work on your relationship. Like, it's like. It sounds like work. I mean, it is the word work.

Yeah, that was the last thing I. The last thing I wanted to do when I got home from a long day of work was more work.

So I think, you know, instead, what you might want to do is to come up with a different term. Like, is it investing in our relationship? Is it protecting our relationship? Nurturing our relationship? It could even be some sort of funny inside joke between the two of you. So, you know, if you use a different sort of language, it can just have it take on an entirely different kind of tone.

Yeah. And the nice thing about choosing a different word, especially a word or a term that has meaning to you, is that you then get to attach, like, whatever definition you want to it. And it can be a definition that both of you are, like, have come up with together. So it has a very specific meaning to you. Whereas we've already talked about this a bit when someone says, let's work on whatever. Like, what Vanessa hears and what I hear are probably two very different things.

So the bottom line here, we really want to drill in this point that, you know, working on your relationship, we want you to think about it as protecting, strengthening, investing in your relationship. So the work that you're doing, it shouldn't be seen as, like, this threat or so much effort. It's way too hard. We really want to encourage you to think about it as, like, what are these small, daily things that we could add to our relationship? Rather than these, like, all or nothing, make or break. You need to change this asap, those kinds of dynamics. All right, so our next step is to talk to your partner about approaching your relationship and your sex life as a team. So I kind of mentioned this a little bit a minute ago when I was talking about you sharing things that you want to work on, but just, you know, being able to remind your partner, hey, like, we are teammates. This is one of the best things about being in a relationship, is that we get to be on a team. We don't have to do life alone. So a simple way that you can drill that in is like asking your partner, hey, will you prioritize our relationship with me?

Yeah. Versus hearing something like, you need to get better at communication. You need to get better at this, because, like, that's a surefire way for that person to just dig their heels in, or, like, find an excuse or, you know, a way to tear that down. Like, oh, no, well, I'm. I know how to do this because I do. Blah, blah, blah. And then it's just like an argument, and it's not collaborative.

Okay, so our final step here is that you gotta get clear on what is this effort, this investing that you want to be putting into your relationship. So this is gonna be different for every couple. But we want to encourage you to think about, like, maybe your three to five needs or desires or requests that you want to make of your partner. So we would suggest starting with smaller asks. Even if you have this sense of, like, well, we've got some big work that we need to do, some big changes we need to make. Start with smaller things so you get a little bit of a momentum going. You start to feel excited about working on your relationship. It feels fun.

Yeah. I think people mess this up a lot because they're so nervous to have this conversation. Once they finally get the courage up to do it, they're like, okay, well, now we're finally having this conversation. I just gotta get it all out on the table. And when you put it all out on the table like that, it's just, like, gonna feel super overwhelming. And overwhelm tends to lead to inaction. Like, when you feel overwhelmed, are you motivated to do whatever task you need to do? Like, probably not. Unless you are, you know, one of those few people that are like, like, oh, my God, there's so much to do. I can't possibly do it. And then you go out and, like, get it all done. I wish I could do that, but no, if I'm totally overwhelmed, I just freeze up. Yeah.

So you're going to want to spend a little bit of time separately working on this, figuring out, like, okay, what are the things that I'm really wanting and needing right now? What are some small, specific requests? Things that I can frame as, like, adding things to our relationship rather than, you need to fix this right away. So spend a little bit of time on that on your own first. And then come together with your partner to discuss and have them share their things with you too.

Yeah. Because here's the thing. Like, you don't get just one shot at this. Like, yeah, you start small, you have success, those successes turn in. You know, it makes it easier to have more successes. And so you get to keep having these conversations over and over. You don't just get to work on something once. Like, that's. That's kind of one of those myths that we refer to. Like, you put in work at the beginning, you solve the problem, and then it's smooth sailing forever. Like, you get to continuously work on stuff. So make small progress, easy wins, and, like, those wins will compound and compound, and you'll be able to work on meatier things soon enough.

All right, so now we are going to get into the real heart of this episode. The specific reasons why your partner does not want to work on your relationship with you and what you can do if you get these kinds of responses.

All right, so one person on Instagram said that what their partner tells them is, if it ever gets so bad that you're thinking about leaving me, well, then I'll go to counseling. I think that's a pretty. I think that's a pretty common one. It's like, I'm not going to therapy unless we're getting a divorce.

Yeah. So if that's the case for you, we really want to encourage you to re. Listen to this episode with your partner and you can share with them. Like, you know, I used to think the exact same thing. That's all the. The only thing that I've ever seen in movies or on tv. And, you know, but then I listened to this podcast episode, it changed my mind. They had this really cute puppy examination.

Example, changed my life.

So this could be a great conversation opener with you and your partner. And then I would also encourage you to get curious. So it's really easy to hear a response like that from your partner and think, like, wow, what a jerk. I'm being totally shut down. My partner doesn't care. But the reality is, if your partner's having that strong of a reaction, there's something going on for them. Like, they're not just an asshole who doesn't want to talk to you and doesn't want to put any effort in. Like, there's something coming up for them that's feeling really scary, really overwhelming, really triggering. So you want to get curious about, like, what might that be for your partner? So that might be you taking a little bit of time to think through. Like, hey, what do I know about my partner and their history? What lessons have they learned about working on relationships? What role models have they seen? And that could also be you asking them questions about, like, hey, I'm curious. Like, what is this idea of working on our relationship? What is it, like, stir up for you.

Yeah. Like what, what did they see in their family, amongst their parents growing up? I mean, a lot of us learn, you know, a lot of our ways of being in relationships and dealing with conflict come from, you know, the examples that we had growing up.

Yeah.

From our parents. And, you know, unfortunately, most of us didn't have the greatest examples.

Okay, so our next category of partners are partners who think your relationship is already good.

Yeah. So we got a lot of examples like this. So someone else on Instagram told us that my partner thinks our relationship is fine and that I'm just nitpicking.

Oh, I feel that one in my soul.

So, like a little bit like maybe they're looking at the partner's looking at it with rose colored glasses. Also like some shades of gaslighting there. Like, oh, you're just nitpicking like everything's fine.

Yeah. So the line that I like to use in this kind of situation is you and I are a team. If something bothers one of us, it should matter to both of us.

Oh, that's a good one.

Yeah, we'll frame that, put that a little poster on the wall. That'll be our first merch. Little tote bag. If something bothers one of us, it should matter to both of us.

Wow.

Yeah. Get ready for that merch.

Yeah, they're going to be lining up to buy that one.

So the word. I know, right? The wording on that one is important. It's not. If something bothers one of us, it should bother both of us. Because your partner's different person. They're going to get bothered by different things than you do. But it's that it should matter to them that it bothers you.

Oh, yeah, I think that's a, that's a really good distinction because I think that can be. That's like one of the really big, like, ongoing dynamics in a lot of relationships is, is the partner gets that wrong. It's like, oh, like my, my wife, my husband, like, told me that, like, you know, they got in a fight with so and so. And now like, I feel like I have to also be in a fight with them. It's like they got bothered by something, so I also have to be bothered by it even though I don't want to. And it's like, no, it's not about that. It's about like, you should care that something happened to your partner, that they're in a disagreement or they're upset about something. You don't have to feel the same way. So Yeah. I think a lot of us think, oh, well, we have to feel exactly the same as them, or we expect our partners to feel the exact same way or, like, always agree. Yeah.

So I think another interesting point that you can make if this is what your partner's reaction is, is to say something like, you know, why not shoot for extraordinary? Like, I'm not looking for a relationship that's fine. I want a relationship that's extraordinary. Or, I think we are capable of so much more than fine or so much more than good. I think we're capable of an extraordinary relationship, so why wouldn't we want to try for that?

Yeah. So even if the partner in this case, they don't think that the relationship is just good, they think it's great. Here's a sports analogy.

Like, oh, he's bringing up the sports analogies.

All right, so, like, you're a football team, and you just win the Super Bowl. He's the pinnacle of success. You know, if you had a great season, you dominated everybody, things are as good as they get. Now, if you want to win the super bowl next year, what do you do? You just, like, run it back. Like, oh, yeah, we'll just. We won't cut anyone. We'll have the exact same players we already plays. Yes. Use the same plays. Like, it worked last year. Right. It'll work this year. That does not work in real life. Like, most teams, if you take the Patriots out of the equation, most teams who in the super bowl don't win the super bowl the next year. And in fact, a lot of teams, like, don't make it into the playoffs or don't make it very far in the playoffs. So, yeah, like, just because something worked, it doesn't mean it's gonna always work. It doesn't mean you just, you know, get to take your foot off the gas and relax.

It's like, oh, now we're mixing the car metaphors in.

Oh, boy.

Getting confused here.

All right, we better move on.

Next category. Your partner never follows through. So they say, sure, yeah, okay, I'll go along with it. But then nothing ever changes.

Yeah, I definitely have been guilty of this one.

I have, too.

Yeah. I mean, it's so easy to just be like, oh, yeah, yeah. You know, like, I should do better at this. Yeah, I'll work on that. And then, like, things feel good, and then you forget. So, yeah, one of the examples from Instagram was someone saying, I'll make specific requests, but then my partner never follows through when I bring it up again. He'll agree to try harder, and then nothing ever happens.

The endless cycle.

I know that one. Yeah. Another example is my partner refuses to take any initiative or learn new tools or techniques, but I don't want the responsibility of having to teach him everything.

Ooh. Go back and listen to our mental load episode, because that's like the mental load of improving the relationship. Okay, so if your partner does not follow through, here are some tips for what to do. So, first, we really recommend starting with small requests. Us, it's just a lot to ask somebody to change something really big and be very consistent about it. So we want to start with smaller things, give them those small wins, a little motivation, a little bit of, you know, just momentum that you get going.

Yeah. What about in a case, though, where I think a lot of people get into this trap of, like, oh, well, like, I've. Like, it doesn't matter what kind of requests. Like, I've made all kinds of requests, and they, like, never follow through. So, like, okay.

So I think that it can't just stop at making a request. You have to be the team and make a game plan together. So you're not just coming to your partner with your laundry list of. Here are all the things that I need you to change. It's okay. Here are some things that we need to take care of our relationship, to nurture our love. What are we going to do together to make sure that this happens? So you're making a specific plan for it, and I think part of that plan actually needs to be normalizing that they're gonna forget. You're gonna forget. They're gonna fail at things. I'm doing little air quotes over here. You're gonna fail at things. So part of the game plan should be reminders. We are such big fans of, like, put reminders in your cell phone. Put it in your calendar. We're human. We have so many things going through our heads on a daily basis. Trying to add new things is so hard. So use technology to help set yourself up for success, and then be really gracious with yourself and with each other when your partner does forget. I mean, you want to see that your partner's making an effort. They're trying, but they're going to be human. They're not going to hear a request one time and be perfect at it for the rest of eternity. And then another thing you can do is have a weekly or monthly check in to keep this top of mind. Because again, like, you can't tell your partner you want something once and they're going to give it to you exactly the time that you want it, every single time you want it for the rest of your lives. Like, you have to keep talking about it. So if you build in some sort of regular check in, that's going to set you both up for success. All right, our next category is Partners who get Defensive.

Oh, I think this is super common. We already talked about men and competency, and, you know, and I can relate with that. That feeling of my competency is being challenged. I need to get defensive. And that's kind of, you know, you're not thinking that. You're not thinking those words in your mind, but, you know, that's. That's kind of like how it plays out. So one example from Instagram was someone saying, my partner lashes out at me and says that I'm not perfect either. So it's the sort of character assassination.

So I think with this one, it's important to recognize that your partner is coming from a place of hurt. Hurt people. Hurt people. Right. So I don't think your partner is trying to be a jerk to you. They're just, you know, they're feeling hurt themselves and they're lashing out in that hurt. It's not okay for them to do that, but I think just reminding yourself, like, it's coming from that sort of place within them. So I would give them a break to cool off if necessary. Sometimes people aren't good at handling things in the moment. They need a little bit of time on their own to reflect, to gather themselves. And then you can also continue, like, giving your partner positive feedback and say something like, you know, I think you're an incredible partner. Especially if you can sense that your partner's getting defensive because they feel like they're being insulted or turned down. You know, go back to that positive affirmation of, like, I'm not saying things to you because I think you're a bad person. I think you're an amazing person. I want us both to be constantly growing and improving. So I think this is also an opportunity to get curious, too. Like, you know, at a separate time, you could maybe loop back to your partner. Partner and say, like, you know, I'm curious to know, like, did that feel like an attack to you? If so, like, what made it feel like an attack? Was there a way that I phrased it? Was there something in my body language, my tone of voice? So I just love curiosity because I think that diffuses a lot of tense moments and it helps us recognize, like, you know, I Love you. You're my partner. I care about you. I want to know more about you, and I want to understand, like, your inner workings so that I can be a better partner to you.

Yeah, I think this is a really huge one because, yeah, like, if you ask that question, your partner says, oh, well, like, I. Like, yeah, that felt like an attack because I heard you telling me that, like, I'm screwing up at this, and I'm not doing that. Right. I need to get better at that. Then. Then it's like, yeah, maybe they have a point. Like. Like, that's. You could work on your delivery, you know, to use I statements. Talk about how you're feeling. Like, how, like. Like what they're doing makes you feel. Not like they're doing something wrong. But if it's truly a case of, like you said, you communicated really effectively about how you were feeling, and then they made assumptions or created implications that. That weren't really there, then it's like, okay, well, like, you know, I didn't actually say that. These are things you're. You're spinning a story in your mind about, like, what I. I didn't actually say to you.

Yeah. All right. Our next category is the complete opposite end of the spectrum, where maybe your partner goes to this place of they're feeling overwhelming guilt.

One example that we got from Instagram was, like, when someone is saying, like, let's work on something, what their partner says to them, they just go to guilt and shame. They go, I'm a terrible person. Like, why are you even with me?

Me? So I think it's important in these kinds of cases to, you know, remind your partner that they're a good person and that we all have things that we can improve. Having something that we can improve that doesn't make us a bad person. So you can point out things about yourself that you want to improve and point out to your partner, like, you don't think I'm a terrible person. You don't want to break up with me because I have something, you know, that I want to work on. I think it's also important to remind your partner, like. Like, this is not you bringing them this list of all these things that are terrible about them. Like, you're talking about the dynamics between the two of you. So, like, your partner could be with somebody else, and these dynamics never come up. So if you rephrase it as, like, hey, this is something between the two of us that can make it easier on them. And I think also going back to, like, just this redefinition of what does it mean to work on your relationship. That can be really useful in these kinds of scenarios as well. But what I want to say, just as a final point with this one, is don't back down. Like, if you bring something to your partner that you want to work on, you want for your relationship, and they say, oh, I'm such a terrible person. Why could you even want to be with me? Like, I think it's really easy in those scenarios to be like, oh, don't worry about it. I didn't mean to hurt you. Forget about it. It's totally fine. But I think that there are actually a lot of scenarios where somebody uses the. This guilt response it kind of. In a manipulative way.

Oh, yeah, I. I can admit I've certainly used this in a manipulative way in the past. It wasn't something where I was knowingly being manipulative. But I've. I've come to realize there's, like, certain dynamics from my own childhood where I learned that I could use this tactic to successfully get what I wanted. And, you know, that just kind of became, like a default move that I would make in conflict. And I've worked really hard to stop doing that now that I recognize that it's happening. But, yeah, like, what you're trying to do is make your partner feel really bad for you so that they one back down from whatever they're asking because they feel like, oh, well, now, like, now, like, their ego is bruised. And then, like, I want to build them back up. Up.

Yeah.

And it's like, yeah, it's not, you know, like, yeah, their ego is bruised because you're telling them that, you know, you want to work on something that they maybe don't want to work on. And, like, it's okay to have a bruised ego. Like, you're going to build your ego back up by working on stuff successfully together, not by. Not by not working on stuff.

Okay. And our final example response that your partner could have is that they just shut down.

Another example from Instagram was someone saying, like, their partner would say, I don't feel like talking about this right now, or, like, let's come back to this later.

Okay. So sometimes your partner might have this kind of response if they are flooded. So that basically means, like, they're really overwhelmed in that moment, and they don't really know how to talk about it. So I would let them have a break, but say, you know, okay, we don't need to talk about this right now. If that's feeling really challenging or, you know, whatever it is. But I would like you to let me know a specific time that we can come back to the conversation. Because a lot of times people use the like, I don't want to talk about it now as just a deflection and avoidance and they have no intention of ever coming back around to it. So you want to tell your partner. Yeah, you get to say, I can't talk about it right now. I need a little bit of a break. But you need to give me a specific time that we are going to come back to it.

Yeah, pin it down. Like if you can pin it down in that moment and it's like, okay, so tell me when a good time to talk about this is. Is it tomorrow? Tomorrow at 5 o' clock? If they're not sure what time, you're like, oh, well let me get back to you tomorrow or in a couple days about when a good time is like, then really pin them down for that. Like, okay, well, like, I am looking to hear from you by five o' clock tomorrow, like when you want to talk about this, because that way that tactic isn't really going to work. Another example that we got about this is a little different, but like what this person is saying, my partner will say, I'm sorry, I'll work on it. Or I know, but they're just an assortment of empty responses that are unreflective of how he feels.

Yeah, so this is like a different way of shutting down rather than a, like, I don't want to talk about it right now. It's just sort of like trying to placate you. Like, yeah, okay, sure, we'll do it. Yeah, that's fine. You know, but it doesn't feel like your partner is actually engaging with you, having a conversation with you. So this can come up again if your partner is flooded. So you may want to, you know, ask them like, hey, do you need a little bit more time to reflect? Like, I want this to be a conversation. Do you need a little bit more time? When should we come back to it? So that's a possibility. It could also be that your partner is people pleasing. I think a lot of people, you know, they just want to know that other people are happy with them, they're doing a good job being a good person. And so sometimes it can be really easy to say, like, I'll do whatever you want. Yeah, that's totally fine.

You know, also, this could be an indication that this tactic has worked on you in the past. And so that's why they're using it. Like, if that's something, you know, if, if you're someone that's brought stuff up in the past and you know, and then your partner is like, okay, yeah, sure, whatever. And then, like, nothing happens and you aren't on them about that, they probably come away being like, okay, cool. This must not have really been that big of a deal because I'm not actually coming back to it and no one's upset.

Yeah. So bottom line is what you want to share with your partner is something like, I want this to be a conversation between the two of us. I don't want this to be just me telling you what to do. I want us to talk about it. And again, loop back around to that idea of being a team. Loop back around to that idea of like, these are fun things that I want to add to our relationship, not just, just me giving you all these complaints that I want you to change. So if you are really able to change that idea of what does it mean to work on your relationship, I bet you that you will be able to get your partner much more engaged. That was a lot. Yeah, Yeah. A lot of different possibilities. To recap all of that, we want to normalize this idea that healthy relationships take work or investing, prioritizing, nurturing, whatever your word wants to be. So we really want you to think of this not as working on your relief relationship, but as proactively protecting and strengthening your relationship. So when you want to approach your partner, remember to start small, keep things positive. Give your partner plenty of praise and great feedback. Tell your partner what you love about them and your relationship and tell them why you want to work on your relationship. That it's really coming from this place of wanting to honor the connection that you guys have with each other, to go from good to great, to have a truly extraordinary, special relationship. That six figure feeling, bringing it back. So when your partner sees that you have these positive intentions, that you want this to be something that feels fun and light hearted and joyful, they are going to be so much more likely to get on board with jumping in and doing the work well.

That's all for today's episode of Pillow Talk. Thank you so much for listening. Join us again next week when we'll talk about how to kiss.

It's our first how to episode.

Yeah, we've been talking about this kissing thing for a while. It's. It's gaining some traction on social media. You'd be surprised at the number of DMs and questions that we receive about this not so basic skill, let's put it that way.

We have a lot of how to, like, sexual technique episodes planned for you guys, but we wanted to start with kissing because we've been talking about it a lot on Instagram, and I think a lot. Lot of people are.

You got to start at first base.

Exactly. Oh, should we do it in that way?

Rounding the bases.

Rounding the bases.

Shoot.

That's another good podcast name we missed out.

Damn. Can we change it?

I think it's too late. All right, so we want to just leave you with a free gift. We have a free downloadable guide called 3 Simple Daily Habits to keep the spark alive in your relationship. So this kind of gets back to what we were talking about at the beginning of the episode about, like, what are fun things that you can add to your relationship that really just bring so much more joy and connection and happiness? Just go over to vmtherapy.com episode 6 and you will find the link to download it. All right, thanks for listening and we will see you next week.