Arman Ananian on Why Your Paid Ads Are Failing (And How to Fix Your Follow-Up with AI)

Welcome back, rockstars. What if paid ads aren't actually your problem, but what happens after the lead comes in? And if you don't do paid ads at all, you're going to love today's show. We're talking to Armin Ananian, founder and performance marketing agency. Doing something rare. He combines world class paid ads with radical accountability, real life follow up systems, and a mission much bigger than money. Armin's going to share the hard lessons he learned by running paid ads for outpatient private practices and why most ad campaigns fail even when leads look good on paper. So this is a man who knows how to actually get results in this space. And I will tell you, most people who've tried paid ads don't have success, but those who do, it's like a button. Every time they push that button, they get more new patients. So if you've ever said paid ads didn't work for us, or if you've never tried it, this conversation is going to completely change how you see marketing and scaling your practice with paid ads. Enjoy the show. Armin, I am so excited to have you on the Willpower podcast. Why don't you introduce yourself to the audience, explain a little bit about who you are, what you do and why you love doing it.

Absolutely. Thank you so much, Will, for having me. Who I am, what I do. So I run a marketing agency and we've touched all kinds of clients across the US and Canada and been doing it since, I don't know, 2016, 17, you know, Facebook ads, Google Ads, like that's, that's what we do, we specialize in that. And what else can I tell you? My goal is similar to yours, Will. That's, I think why we connected is because I was so frustrated. I, I love doing charity work and I've always done it for my country, Armenia, and I'm Armenian and always done it. You know, actually we had a terrible war in 2020. So a lot of people that look like me, you know, imagine your kids and they would be more your kids age than my age because you go to the military at 18. So if you had any kids at that, there were 18 at 2020. Those, the 18, 19, 20 year old kids were those that were sent to war just because of how it works. Like you all, you go two years to the military there and just that really hit me and I think a lot of the people who really cared about our country and really hit me, really hit me hard. I felt powerless and before that I was donating. But you know, that Made me want to do a lot more. And throughout the years I couldn't really figure out what am I going to do? How am I going to, you know, make an impact, a significant impact. You know, you feel frustrated because, you know, just like maybe you, when you went to Africa, you're like, oh my God. So there's so much to do here. Same, same feeling I had, right. Like, it's like, right. I feel like I'm alone here. You know, I'm, I gotta take. But anyway, after so much time and trying to, trying to support other project, others projects, I realized that the biggest thing I can do is build a great company of marketers that are from Armenia, provide careers for them and help the toughest market in the world, which is the US and by doing that, we would acquire so much know how and we would do such great work that we would be able to not only purpose number one, build great human beings with great salaries, purpose number to take that knowledge and be able to deploy with marketing, with getting our story across the world, you know, so that became my purpose. That is still my purpose. You know, many years later. You know, we are, you know, we've hired a significant amount of people and given them incredible careers that they wouldn't have because there is, it's very specialized, right. One thing is, is doing some, some light work, you know, online and another thing is being a performance based marketer, you know, which is more and more responsibility, way harder and also way more better outcomes.

Right.

For them. So my goal has been ever since then that just continue hiring great people from my country, provide opportunities and do as much as that as possible.

Love that Armin, thanks for sharing that powerful story. And rockstars. What I love about Arming is I met him in a group, an online coaching group and school group by Alex Hermosi. There's over a thousand members and Armin's in the top 10 of the most influential contributors in that group. And that's how I met Armin. So what I love about what you're doing is that you're solving this problem called paid ads, which in and of itself is just. First of all it's a very challenging issue like he mentioned in the most challenging market in the United States. But you're using it as a tool to create freedom and independence within your community there in Armenia. And so we talked before briefly on the phone and there was a great passion that you had shared with me regarding this, this post war scene that you guys have been recovering from. And I just think it's interesting that the incredible hardship that that created for you open the door for you guys to be wanting and able to do this hard thing called paid ads. If anything, it's not even comparable because the hardship of war is so much more intense. But that's why you guys weren't afraid of taking that on. And as a result of that, you guys have been incredibly successful as you've grown and scaled and helping practices scale through paid ads. And so today we're going to talk about the lessons you've learned just in the most recent year of working with an outpatient private practice on how you use paid ads and what you've learned from that. I know my audience can't wait to hear about that. But before we do, I just want to thank you for being vulnerable and sharing that really motivating reason why you do what you do, you know, because at the end of the day, that's, that's the why. And your what is to create freedom in other ways for business owners through paid ads. So, yeah, let's hear about some of these things that you've learned. What's the first lesson you've learned in paid ads for outpatient private practices?

Absolutely. And thank you so much again for having me. Super excited. I love your mission. And I told Will, anything we can do to help you support hiring more people, giving them opportunities. He hires out of the Philippines, but

these are, we're expanding to Armenia. I want to.

Yeah, hopefully. Right. But like the, the just shout out to you for providing so many careers, hundreds of careers for people that otherwise would have not had it. And it's, that's the reality. Somebody, you hire somebody in the U.S. nice. If not, they could have gone to somewhere else and gotten a job. Like you hire somebody in these countries that we're talking about and you pay them well and you literally are changing their life, their family, they're able to buy homes. This is generational wealth. So just shout out to you for doing what you're doing. With that said, let's go into the paid ads. So first thing, it's funny, okay, this is not an advertising for your company, Will. But you know, one of the things that happened is you start running ads. Okay, so we start running ads for the, this private practice and he's looking for clients to come in and, you know, book an appointment. And if, you know, they can pay cash, they can use insurance, etc. Etc. And the problem we're having is that we have no visibility at all of once we get the lead, what Happens with the lead. Okay.

Oh, I see. You'll get a, you'll put out a paid ad, but you don't have visibility on the people who click on it.

Exactly, exactly. So. So we're like, okay, well, it seems like we're getting a good cost per lead, Will. But what happens after you get the lead? No clue. No idea. So we helped them set up systems so that we could see what actually happened. Were they calling on time? Were they calling quickly? Well, turns out that. No. Were they calling multiple times to be aggressive? No, right. To be aggressive with the leads. Were they following up throughout like three set of weeks? Because at the end of the day you paid for this lead, they're interested. It's just, you know, maybe it came after hours, you know, Anyway, you know, it just essentially there was barely any follow up there. And so we, we looked at that and we were like, well, I know the owner and I know the owner is a good man and I know the owner put the best people that he could possibly put there, but maybe they're overworked, maybe they're overwhelmed and it's just not happening. So the first thing we did was just have a conversation with them and say, you know what? You probably don't know what's going on, dear CEO, but we want to provide that transparency for you. You know, we want to be able to tell you, hey, every week, here's the amount of leads you got and here's the cost per lead. That's our responsibility. And here's what we're trying to do on our end as an agency to lower your cost per lead, to get your qualified leads. But you know what, I also, we're also starting to track how many times your people are calling, how quickly are they calling. And so the moment that the CEO was, and because this was frustrating for us, we were like, I mean, this guy can say this stuff is not working at any point and he could be right, but is it really our fault? So we just took ownership and we said we're going to start creating a weekly report for you to see how well we're doing and how well your team is doing.

I love that accountability, because I'm guessing they don't. Until they saw that report, they didn't even realize what they were supposed to do in the first place. Like you and I are talking as students of Alex or Mosey, who are, who know the fortunes and the follow up, but a medical practice owner is not going to know. They think they're paying you and patients are Just going to magically appear in their clinics or.

Or, you know, the. You know, there is a difference between the team member telling you, yeah, yeah, we do follow up, and then actually you seeing that they actually do follow up and, like, pulling up every single contact and seeing how many times they call. Right. If you had. I mean, how many of you guys that are listening have that granular look on every single paid ad lead that you have? Like, if. Do you know how. Just question. And the answer for most people is no. Like, do you know where you. Like, if you're a. Can you. Can you tell me with 100% certainty that your team is following up then the amount of times you wanted them to follow up, the amount of times, you know, they call, they text, they follow your whole procedure, they follow it to the T just like you want it to be, right? They call fast enough. Could you tell me with 100% certainty that they're following your process and they're making it happen, or you don't know. And if you don't know, which is most people, that's okay. Well, then how can you optimize marketing? How can you wisely continue investing in marketing dollars if you don't know that part? Because if I get you, a hundred qualified people will that are looking to get started with you, but there's nothing happening or barely anything happening, what do you think is gonna happen?

Nothing. I think that's. Again, this is all knowledge for people who are listening that, like, what. What Armin does, and better than anyone I know, is that you generate these leads that are interested. These aren't just people who just have names and numbers. They're people who are very qualified, who are like, hey, I want to be treated by your. Your company. But if we hand that lead over to the owner and they say nothing in return, they don't call the people or the person who calls calls like, hey, I got something for you. Were you interested or not? Like, they. How we follow up and how many times we follow up is something else. So I love that you created a report that shows people where the accountability lies. Cause listen, most. Like you said, most owners are really good people. They just don't know. So that that report helps them distinguish. Okay, so Armin's company is creating value that takes stress off of the owner. Then it becomes a matter of, like, well, how do I get my team up? What do you do with. In cases like that where owners, like, are grateful for your leads but they don't know? Like, they don't know how to like follow up or like, how do you support them in that?

Great question. So I would say before, before knowing of you, here's what we did. And then after knowing you, there's definitely a need of placing somebody who's going to be aggressive and Right. So just place somebody, just place somebody who's going to be hungry and there's going to be incentives for this person to book people on your calendar or book for like in person show, you know, showing for them to show. That's, that's an alternative. We haven't explored that yet because we haven't had that happen that much. But what we did will, which was very interesting, was we just deployed AI.

Okay.

So that, that leads to the next point. You know, we were like, okay, this is just not happening. No matter, like, what was the next steps? Well, the accountability was there because like you, I'm the CEO, I'm hearing from my account manager and my team, hey, like, we're getting leads, but they're saying, they're calling them, but I don't see any movement. I'm like, is this really the case?

Yeah.

Or is this not really the case because the CEO and the employee are saying yes. So then we created that report. When we created the report, we were able to see that that was not the case. They were not following up. And we actually just probably golden nugget for people listening. Like, we put some fake leads in the process to see if we got called back.

Got it.

You know what I mean? Like, also, you might have that as a quick test as well. Hey, let's just put this phone number here. It's my body's phone number. Let's see if we're getting texted. Let's see the intensity. You can always do that, right? Anyway, so it wasn't happening. But no matter. This is what happens when you have a front desk person who has a thousand things. They're not a bad person. But if they have a thousand things and then one of the things on the list, which probably is the last one, is called the leads. This is what happens, right? So we realized that no matter how much we push that data and we incentivize them to do it to work the leads, that nothing was happening. We were like, okay, then let's just take responsibility and let's just build an AI that calls the leads, qualifies them and etc. Etc. That was, that was a lot of a big learning lesson. There's so many, like the AI, of course, when you implement anything new, it was, it Was. It was not ideal, you know, messed up, you know, it said the wrong things, you know. But you know what? It was calling everybody and it was texting everybody.

Yeah.

And it started booking people as well. And people couldn't tell whether it was real or not. Some people were, but a lot of them, they're older people, you know, trying to get care.

That's amazing that you have like this AI bot that's calling and actually scheduling patients though, and doing the follow up. That's incredible.

Yeah. And that was, that was two, three months ago. And now it's so much better because what you do is just like a marketing campaign. And, and I'm supposed to be talking about paid ads here. We will talk about paid ads, but what, what does it matter if you got a good campaign and you don't have any of this? Right. So we deploy the AI and again, it's like a marketing campaign. You put V1 out, the AI calls people, you listen to the calls, you don't like something, then you change the prompt to make sure the AI does better next time. So you do that consistently. And over two to three months, then this becomes something that can be an actual asset. That's working 247 for you. We activated it after hours, right? Imagine someone is having immense Pain at 2:00am, right. Some people would say, and this is up for debate, I don't care, but my business owner said, I want to have it enabled. But you have immense pain. Would you rather wait for a call back in the morning or would you rather have an AI schedule you for first thing in the morning already, Boom,

second, all day long, twice on Tuesday, Right.

Some people be like, no, I don't want to deal with AI, blah, blah, blah. But you know, practically speaking, you're in the pain in that moment when you saw that and when you clicked and then somebody just reached out to you automatically. And so anyway, he, he liked that fact. But there's some people I know that may not like it, but that was also huge because, you know, and then, you know what happens when you implement the AI? We thought we were smart. We were like, no, no, no, you get out of the way. We're just gonna use the AI because AI is gonna kick your ass, your person's ass. You know, truth is, there's always gonna need, there's always gonna be the need of a human checking after things calling back. People who got a reply and fell through the cracks, like checking if the people who actually booked are gonna be confirmed to come. You know, there's Always a lot of things. And we at first thought that we could just use AI and that was a learning lesson, which is no, it's AI plus human. Yes, let the AI do most of it. But a human has to be overseeing, checking in and monitoring things.

Yes, absolutely. It's interesting because I've been having this conversation a lot with my virtual assistants. I'm having a lot of discussions with AI based softwares and what you just said continues to be the thing. As a matter of fact, two years ago my wife said you should definitely keep doing the virtual assistant business even though AI is coming. This was two years ago. I said to her, maybe I shouldn't do this. We were just starting to take off and she's like, no, stick with it. Because first of all, if you have market control, that's huge. But secondly, you don't know how AI is going to work. What if they need people still? And so I love that because there's always a human element with AI that's required for that, which gives, I think a lot of people who are scared of AI a little breathing room and recognition that like that might change over time. But for now, if we're not using AI, what a waste. Because if I'm calling at 2 in the morning, if I'm clicking on a paid ad at 2 in the morning because I'm in severe back pain, for me to get an AI bot who sounds nice even though I know it's AI, maybe, I don't know, but if I know it's AI, it's like, yeah, I'm in a lot of pain right now. Oh, I'm so sorry. We have an opening tomorrow at 8am I'd be like, thank you. Because I'm going to be awake until then anyway. And now at least I know I'm going to get help. And that helps me mentally at a level that no one else can help me with. So guess how I feel about that company? I feel enamored, I feel connected as a client, a patient. That's my business because they understand me when I'm in my darkest night. So no, I think that's pretty awesome, Armin. So the first thing you learned is that you can create great leads all you want. The fortune on the follow up has to be done. That's why you created that report. The second thing you learned is the power of interacting with AI. That's really cool.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

What's that? What else have you learned? I want to hear more. I know you have. How many, how many things have do you have there in terms of like lessons learned? Do you have them numbered?

No, no, I don't have them numbered. So you're gonna have to cut me off at some point. Like I mean this other thing and

this other thing, the 53rd thing he learned. But let's go into something else really big. What else is something you've learned, Will?

The mo. How you know, like I had another consulting call yesterday. This is tied together with. So qualification is probably one of the biggest and most important things.

When you're describe that for people who have no idea what you're talking about. What do you mean by qualification?

So you just, you don't want just a name, email and a phone number. You want name, email, phone number and like are you ready? You know, what's, how quickly you want to proceed with this and then what's your budget? And then maybe have you done anything like this before? If this is your first time doing any type of treatment, you know, you want somebody who's going to commit to answering all these questions. So by the time they come or by the time you guys call, you know that this is a serious person that actually spends some time self qualifying themselves. And it's so easy to say, oh, you know, like yesterday, right, another person got $1 leads, you know, and I just saw $1 leads in his space and I was like instantly I already know. You don't need to tell me. I instantly know this didn't work. Because you know, when I see 50 to $100 cost per lead and then I see somebody getting $1 cost per lead, I'm like, either he's a genius and I need to quit at work for him or, or most of the time that's just people like grandmas that are putting something there and like everybody that has some free time, they're just filling out their information and that's what you're getting, you know, and you're not getting that qualification. So. And then qualification is not only those questions you ask, it's also the content you make Will. It's also saying hey, if you are suffering from this, that the other here's how we can help. You know, it's, it's talking about think about pullback, think about the people who are your ideal customers and think about what are the behaviors that they have and start talking to them on the ads. Because you don't want another mistake is you don't want the cheapest people. I see this all the time. We have, we coach people on ads, we do it for them, people come to me and like, no, I just, I just want more clients. No, you don't want more clients. You want more of the clients that are going to stay with you forever, that are going to be high. Ltv.

Right.

They're gonna just join and pay your highest package or like a bunch of money and then continue coming because what's the difference between you and the chiropractor or the practice next therapist.

Yeah, all those guys.

Yeah, what's the difference? That, and we've seen this actually when we work with the same people, even in the same state, different locations, the same lead. You know, one customer was able to sell, you know, $600 of worth of services, the other is selling $1800 worth of services. Right. The part of that is the odds, part of that is the qualification. And also part of that goes back to sales. Right. How good are you at somebody showed up? How good are you from turning that show up into high ticket, you know, thing? And then see, I can keep talking. And then the most important thing is track this.

Yes, track this.

Are you tracking, are you tracking how many people are showing up from ads? Yes. Okay, you probably are tracking that. Now let me ask you this. Are you tracking how many people come get the first service and upgrade? Okay. Or they decline the upgrade?

Right, right.

And are you tracking that? Right. Then are you tracking from again, this is all in from us. Are you tracking from ads how many come upgrade and then how many times they continue coming again and again?

Right.

If you are not tracking that, then

you should, well, you don't know. If you're not tracking it, you don't know what your investment return is. It's like correct. I think that for me has been my experience with paid ads, Armin, is that in the past, I've done paid ads with different groups and people before and you know, you're looking at their company fee plus two to three thousand dollars of ad spend every month. So I'm spending two to three grand just for the ads and I'm paying the company fee. And they always say the same thing, that it takes at least six months to know if you're even going to, you know, target the market correctly. So you're, you know, very quickly you're, you're into this thing 20 to $40,000. And you know, in the physical therapy space, I can tell you one patient for me is worth a thousand dollars. So I'm already at a place where I'm like, I need 40 patients just to make up for that first six months, you know, ramp up. So if I'm not tracking it, I mean, it's, it's hard. I mean, again, the people who are listening, they're so busy, they're like, oh, that's another thing. But that's where you help. I mean, you really do come in and you support them in understanding these things so that they're not left alone to figure that out. Like you're there to kind of highlight because it doesn't serve you if they don't correct. If they do it, if they do it and they can see what a good service you're doing, that makes it like everyone just breathe easier. Because it's like, oh, I'm spending 40 grand, but I'm making 60 or 80 or whatever over a six month period. Then it becomes a lot easier and then it scales. What's cool is once you guys establish that foundation of success, then you can just start putting like money on the fire and grow the patient business. So that's awesome. I love that. Okay, so this has been an interesting journey for you for sure, working with the, these outpatient medical practices.

Let, yeah, let me tell you another thing. So everybody is saying that and you, you know, like every industry has its lie that everybody says or you know, white lie, whatever you want to call it.

Yeah, that.

Yeah, you gotta wait six months. Right. And it's so hard from somebody outside of the world to know if is this true? Is, is it really that the algorithm has to optimize for six months and, or, or is it just because they want me to pay them for six months? And this is, you know, and then it's when things. So the way you can tell is a little bit of what I said before, plus some new things. So you should know the way you can tell, okay, your month in your month, one in your month, two in your month, three in. And you want to know, hey, is this just going the right direction and it needs to be better and they're working on making it better or it's just, this is just they're taking my money and they're acting like something's happening. Right? Yeah, you don't know. So how do you know? Well, first of all, you should know your industry standard. Standard industry cost per lead. You know, like if you just ask people around your Google it, you probably can come up with like a $40 cost per lead, $50 cost per lead. It's decent for like a local business. You know, you can get to 100 if it's more premium, you know, and it can it can be a bit more. Depends on how much more you qualify them, you know. You know, some people get, you know, 15, 20, like it depends, but it has to be there. But when I go, when I got yesterday on that call and I saw $1 cost per lead, I instantly knew this is just not gonna go anywhere. And he just wasted six months of whatever he.

Right.

I instantly knew, but he didn't know. He just never looked at the numbers. And. But, but if you see $1 cost per lead, right? You're like, how can a lead cost me a dollar? And then, but like you just need to connect the dots. Like you see dollar cost per lead, then you actually see the lead that you get. You try to call the lead, nothing happens. Or they say that all these other things, hey, I didn't mean to put my info or whatever, you know, you need to connect the dots, right? So that's the first way you're like, okay, well you need to know around like typical KPI. What are the KPIs for meta ads in. You could probably find out a number on the Internet I gave you a little.

Yeah, maybe chat GPT, Google around would be best. Asking around would be bad. But.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you know, you go to a, you know, you are on a Facebook group and you ask hey, those of you guys right On a, on a Facebook, you ask, hey, what's those of you guys who are running ads, what's. What's your cost per lead? Now they could have a. Their ads could also suck, but at least you get a little bit of an idea, right? Then the, the second thing is essentially how can you tell is you need, will you need, you need like a solid plan. This is hard for me to put into words the way you know, like, you know, like when you, you're in your space, you can like in 5 to 10 seconds just look at something and like immediately know if it's right or not.

Sure.

Sometimes is that. But I'm trying to codify it into words, but I think, I think, I think they have to have. First of all, you know, if you, if somebody can show you, you know, somebody in your space that they've done work with and that, you know or that looks very similar to you and they've been able to be successful with that, that is. Helps a lot. And then, but as you are, as you are in it with them, you need to be able to see some form of, some form of. What's the word? I'm looking for some form of proof that These are leads that are worth it. These are leads that you are able to talk to. These are leads of people who actually have this problem that you're trying to solve. May not be 100% of it, maybe it's 20% of them to start. That's okay, you know, but you qualify them. Yeah, you can tell that. Okay, well listen, not all of them. In the beginning it happens. Sometimes it happens. You know, you just put it out there, you don't get what you want. But you should have a little bit, especially after 16 to 90 days, you should have some leads that you're like working and they're turning into something. Hopefully sooner, the better the agency, the sooner that happens. Right, right. There is always like a ramp up period for everybody. But this could happen in month one very easily.

I was going to ask you what's a typical ramp up period then? If I, because I've heard six months my whole career, like what's, what do you typically see as an average?

You should, yeah, go ahead. You should start getting like for, I would say somebody who's moving fast. You should start getting leads week two, you know, like. And that. It could be sooner. It could be sooner, right? If you start getting leads week two, that could be sooner. I'm being, I'm being like conservative. Like if you're moving really fast, leads, we, we should, we don't time our time to value. But it's, it's less than two weeks for us. But I'm just saying two weeks.

Amazing.

From, from the last client we just launched. I know it's like less than two weeks. But anyway, you start getting your first leads. They already talked to somebody who was like a great fit. And yeah, it was, it was. They're going to pay, we're going to pay them a bunch of money. And then that was like a sales thing, right? They figured out how to close that person, but that person was qualified. But I think that is Will, to put it into words is you need to see some sort of indication that you're getting some qualified leads and it's working. If you keep seeing like everybody they freaking call to. I'm not getting anything and I'm being aggressive and I'm doing these things. And you like one month, two months, you know, you're not seeing anything. That's where, that's where I would say, hey, just consider, consider cutting it off or get a second opinion. You know, get a second opinion of somebody who, who's honest. You know, I had a, I had a call not yesterday the day before with another entrepreneur. And he told me they were, they were. What do you call these people that help with like knee surgery? Not knee surgery, like knee rehabilitation.

Yeah. Physical therapist. Right?

Yeah, yeah, but, but they were specific for the, for, for like knee. And they had some injections and stuff. Anyway.

Okay, yeah, orthopedic surgeons will work with that. Yeah, whatever.

Yeah, maybe. Yeah. So, so he told me a little bit of his agency. Like what were they doing? He told me this and like he, I said, hey, so how many, how much are you spending? This amount. Okay. And how many clients they're getting? Oh, they're getting us like, you know, three clients a month and they're very high ticket clients. And I'm like, okay, okay, well that sounds good. You know, that sounds good. And, and so, you know, some people will be like, no, like they have all these things wrong. But I'm like, dude, you are, you should be happy with this agency. Out of everybody, you are getting a positive roi and, and you should keep going. So you need to have somebody who's going to tell you, dude, this is good because that helps you have some mental peace.

Yeah. Just, you're doing the right thing with your investment. You got somebody to verify it. But I think what helps me, what you said, Armin, is if people are getting leads in the first couple of weeks, that's huge. Like, look, if I'm spending whatever your fee is plus $2,000 a month, and in the first two weeks there's a patient that shows up who's qualified, that schedules a visit with me in the first two weeks I'm like, oh, okay. I mean, it's not enough to like completely make me not think about it again, but it's like, it feels that quick win creates trust. And it's like, okay, so if I got, so if I end up getting three leads in the first three weeks, now we're talking, I'm like, okay, so I'm breaking even already. After these people complete their plan of care and then by month two, it doesn't take much more than that to start feeling like you're getting ahead of the return on investment and you're starting to make more money than you would have, significantly more money than you would have spent without the ads. So I just think it's like interesting that you do all these things, Armin, because I've worked with agencies before, marketing agencies that do paid ads. It is, it's like six months in, they're like, well, here's a handful of leads we got. And none of them were qualified. I happened once, I was six months in, 20 grand in, and I'm like, what the crap? And this company came from like a referral from someone I trusted. Like, so, I mean you're, you're saying things that are very different than what I'm used to hearing from, from people who help with paid ads.

It's really cool if you have like, if you have the playbook, right? If the same, you know, like you service one specific industry, you should have the same playbook figured out, right? So then why wouldn't you launch in a week if you just have to change the location? Because it's a different location. The creatives, some of them could be the same, yes. Some of them, you got to use the doctor or the practice owner or whatever, but a bunch of them could be the same. There is a lot of things that are repeatable, so it shouldn't take too long to launch, you know, and now some people may have their special process, you know, like for example, some people would like to build like this amazing follow up machine and like, maybe AI, you know, there is a bunch of reasons why maybe they take longer, but, but sometimes they just don't feel like making it faster, you know, so you gotta, you gotta gauge that a little bit. But I think, I think essentially launching meta ads. Launching meta ads for a local business owner, it can be done in the first week, two weeks, and very, you know, if you're efficient, it's, it's possible. And then from there, yes, you know, the ads take maybe 24 hours, 48 hours to go live, you know, and after that you start spending money, you know, and after that you start getting your first leads. But yeah, that's, that's, that's how it works. You know, some, some people may not agree with me and they say, no, you know what, Armand? No, my process is so much better than your process because I have this amazing follow up machine and this amazing thing that I'm doing for my clients and I have to launch and it takes me a month to launch. So what I'm like, okay, dude, that's, that's how you do things. And if it working is working for you and you're closing people and you're helping people, then that's, that's awesome for you. This is how we do it. I'm sure there's other ways that people do it as well.

I just think that you guys are super driven. I think what motivates you is so much more than money. And I think that's the problem is that when people are transacting, they don't get the same results as people who are transforming. And so, like. And that's where you're. That's a space that you guys live in, is this transformation space. Because you're doing so much more than just trying to get paid ads. You're really building these people in Armenia. But you're also, like, you can't. You're doing that through supporting and growing your. Your customers. And yeah, it's just, you know, there's a. There's this common phrase. Armin. It's not common. I heard this from a coach and it was so powerful. Greg Todd was the coach who taught me this and won a previous episode. But he basically said there's three types of people. There's. There's takers. That's like 10% of the population. They're just there to take. They're there to take. The second group of people are exchangers. And this is most of us. This is people. It's like, I'll scratch your back, you scratch mine. Win, win, win, win kind of agreements. And then there's this third group called giver. The givers. It's a very small percentage of the population. It's like 7%. They just give. They're out there giving. Yes. They have a business. They'll don't get paid. It's not that they're doing it all for free, but they're just givers. And you're a giver. You're. I've seen. That's why you're in the top 10 on that very elite school group.

Top five. Okay, you gotta just.

Sorry, you're.

You're.

Aren't you, like, top three? Are you top three?

I think, yeah, between three and four. Yeah. Just. Yeah.

I mean, there's thousands of people on that. Well, hundreds. There's over. Just over a thousand. But like, there's hundreds of people on that. That group. And the people who rise at the top are the biggest givers. And. Yeah, man. Like that. That's who they say. So. But the Greg Todd says it like this. You stay away from the takers and you stay away from the exchangers if you really want to make a difference. Because if you only live with the givers, then everyone's giving abundantly and everyone thrives abundantly. And, you know, Greg was really cool. Cause he's like, yeah, at one point in my life, I was a taker, and I never heard that. I mean, it was cool to hear him because he's such a giver too. I just thought, man, that's so cool that people can transition and grow. But we need givers in every aspect of our business, especially the marketing side. Like if paid. When paid ads work, it is one of the coolest ways to grow a business. Because it's once we figure out how to do it and we dial it in with the right partner, like you, it becomes a button we push that, that has a predictable return on investment financially. So then we can look at all the other variables in our business with more control because we're like, okay, I can hire. Because all I need to do is put more money on that button and it will produce more patients. And I have many a client, I used to do coaching in the outpatient private practice space and I had many a client that had dialed in their paid ads for new patients. And it was wild. It was wild. They literally like, okay, we're open a new location, so we're doubling our ad spend. And sure enough, they got that many more. I think it was. It's, it's becomes a math formula after that, there's no more of these, like doctor lunches and like stupid marketing things that are just like, so time consuming, but they're necessary. Not stupid. They're just necessary, but time consuming versus like, hey, just approve a higher budget and then before you know it, you're getting a bigger return on investment. So, Armin, as people are listening to this, they might want to learn more. I can't thank you enough for being on the show today. What would you. How do they get ahold of you? How do they get ahold of you? If they have any other questions or, or like any. They just want to explore paid ads.

Good. Good question. We will leave a. We will leave. People can go to rfmedia.com our website, but we will give them a special link to make sure that, you know, people who are coming from. You get a little bit of a gift from our part.

That's so cool. Thank you, Armin. I appreciate that. Yeah, if you'll send that over to Kim, she'll put that in the show notes. But so all they have to do is go to my show notes, click on your link and they can learn more about it.

Yep, Absolutely. Absolutely.

Oh, my gosh. Well, Armin, before you go, I want to ask you what's the, what's the future for you? Like, like, what do you, when you look down the road for your company, what's your vision? What would you love to see happen?

Absolutely. Well, and One quick thing, because you know you have to choose your heart, right. You said, oh, I just had to double the ad spend. You have to get to a point where you have your process right. Just think of everything I just said on the call as a massive checklist.

Yeah.

I pointed out a bunch of things. And you know that that needs to be done. Needs to be done. Needs to be done. Like for ads, you do that massive checklist. You dial in your operations, you dial in your content, you dial in all these things and you got to choose your heart. There is the heart of going to those luncheons and doing all these things here.

Yeah.

Or you can choose this hard, which is you're gonna spend money and you're gonna invest it and you, you may lose a great part of it. And then at some point it starts breaking even. And then at some point after breaking even, it starts being profitable. And then, because all this time of your learning and all this investing now is the biggest ROI thing you've ever done. But you had to spend all this amount of money here that nobody was willing to spend in your marketplace. Nobody was willing to be consistent. And you were. And that's the reward. Right? This is not a motivational talk, but this, this takes, this takes time. It just is just as hard as everything else. But it's focused hard on, on being intentional, on scaling the company, you know,

so, yeah, I think there's hard. I love that you mentioned that. Because there's no. Again, this is why you're a giver. You're transparent. You're not saying it's a magic bullet. What you are saying is that it's a different type of investment and everything new is challenging because it's new. So my personal opinion is this is one of those investments that you make in your business that takes a lot more front end creation, but once it's figured out, it has bigger dividends over a longer period of time, versus, you know, going to a doctor's office twice, three times a year, providing lunch, getting these huge boosts and then watching them taper off or doing like a community event sporadically. I think that there's. All those things require effort and difficulty and require things to be figured out, but this is one of those that you can put on repeat in a way that I think is more scalable. And you and I both come from that world of, yeah, why wouldn't you do this? Why would. Like, this is a powerful thing. So, yeah, let's get back to your vision, my man. Like, what do you see for, for your company down the road.

Well, my favorite stories ever and probably similar to you, I, I, I, I would love your thoughts here. My favorite stories is when you know, like a big company based out of in, in India, like a big software company. I heard a news they sell, right? So the moment they sell, a lot of employees become like millionaires and stuff like that. And I'm not necessarily sure if I want to sell or not, but I do want my people to make a lot of money. A lot of them to make a lot of money. So that's, that is, yeah, sometimes it's just easier for me to focus on building others and eventually it goes back to you. So I just wanna, yeah, just wanna create as many amazing people with great careers as possible and they'll probably take care of me in the process.

I love that. What a great vision, guys. Rockstars. Did you hear how his vision was about the impact on his people? I just think if we lead companies from that heart set, there's little we can't do. Armin, thank you so much for being on the show. It's been an absolute pleasure.

Pleasure is mine. Thank you so much for having me.

It.