Creating Self-Sustaining Clinic Leaders with Jen Brewer

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Thank you for tuning in rockstars. In today's very special episode, we're going to talk to you about how you can run a business that can be independent, with leaders who love to run it for you, and how to raise self sufficient children who are successful adults. We're going to do this by learning the pillars of leadership through a company, a charitable organization called Care for Life. This company has been around for decades and me, my wife and four boys spent an entire month in Africa learning from them how they have completely rewritten how to give to the poor communities of the world. They don't just give a man a fish over there, they don't even teach a man to fish. They teach other men and women how to teach other men and women how to fish. So they have these sustainable communities that develop into entrepreneurs who start running businesses and they start growing themselves out of poverty. And the episode begins with Jim Brewer, the vice president, explaining her realization when she was in Guatemala decades ago when they set up a medical clinic that just fell apart when these saviors from across the sea didn't show up. This is going to be an emotional episode. You're going to hear me tear up a few times and that's okay because this content will be life changing. Guys. Enjoy the show.

I was walking home after translating in the clinic and saw their health clinic that was closed and I was like, what the heck? And then, you know, slapped myself upside the head because I thought, oh my word. These people who got themselves from the cheek to the city, got educated and came back, which is unheard of, are trying to make a living using their education. Who's going to pay their local doctor when the Americans come every six months and do it for free?

Which takes that local doctor out of business.

Totally out of business.

And by the way, I'm guessing a lot of kids are growing up going, well, A, I'm not an American so I shouldn't even try, or B, why would I try? Because they're going to come take our work away from us.

Yes. So I talked to my husband and we both kind of did these hand slaps of what are we doing? And then he just said, I will never go down again unless I am training a local doctor. You know, I will go have them get all their hard cases that they don't know how to deal with. I will help them and train them and then when I leave, they'll have that knowledge. So that's what we started doing. We started kind of combining with organizations on the ground and I worked with an organization on the other side of Guatemala. You know, with your medical stuff, you would love this organization. It's called Maya Health Alliance. Harvard physician started it and he splits his time between Harvard and Guatemala. But they do a lot. They do so much. And part of it they do malnutrition work. So they brought me on, we did a research project because they had a six month program where they would give these kids who their Z scores were off the charts. They would give them supplementation training but then didn't have anything else. So then we implemented a garden curriculum and help the family learn how to grow a garden and actually keep sustainably feeding their kids. So they're a research like madhouse. They do tons of research down there. But so worked with them and then worked with another like just started like getting connections all over Guatemala. So I would just, our family would just start working. Just we would say, what do you need? How can we support your mission?

Our reality is based on what we're exposed to over time. And so as Americans or anyone else who's in a more wealthy country, we just think that's normal and maybe even feel like it's not enough because we don't have as much as the people down the street. But I think like to your point, there's a lot of people who, even if they don't have that Amazon moment where they feel like the materialism is getting to a red line, I think a lot of people have a good heart and they want to do something to help the world. But like to your point, there's a lot of charitable organizations that satisfy will scratch that itch, but are almost. Well, not even almost. It sounds like there's a lot of them that are actually unintentionally causing a backslide of people's individuality and progression. Right?

Yes. And that's what it is. It is not malicious.

Right.

Have good hearts. You know, organizations have great intentions. So it's. They go and try not realizing the wake of devastation that's happening. So. And people want to give. Over 90% of people give in America.

Right. And I think what's hard too is that you want to give, but selfishly you want to give in a way to where you have the experience of giving. So like with Care for Life, your organization. When I took my family to Africa, I had no idea what I was getting myself into in terms of. Because I had the idea of like, I'm going to go over there and my kids and I are going to really help people who are struggling and Aren't we going to feel good about ourselves? But, you know, it wasn't like I was thinking selfishly about it. I was just thinking, I want my kids to be exposed to that. But even that in and of itself is a little bit selfish. Right. Like I'm doing that at the expense. Again, it's not a bad thought, but it's important to recognize what actually produces results versus what we're looking, what the real intention is. So if our intention is to really serve, I guess there's a lot of people who just don't know how to do it. Right. So what are those, what would you say those principles are that are a little bit different, that maybe other organizations aren't getting? Right, that care for life and others like that have. Correct?

Yeah. So there, there are actually, there are eight core principles that, that we can look into. And these principles are. It's not to point fingers. Okay, maybe it is a little bit, but it's not to point out good guys, bad guys. These are principles. And I've actually sat down with boards and with organizations and we go through these principles and we lay it out at the beginning. This is not finger pointing. This is a chance for you as an organization to pull up the carpet, see if there's mold underneath, see if there's anything that needs to be cleaned out. That's it. It's just we present the principles and then we let people decide, oh, how does this organization stack up? How does this. It just gives us a metric and it just helps us know the right questions to ask organizations and helps us know, okay, are you truly. Because anybody can look pretty on paper, anybody can. But this helps us to, to ask those kind of next level questions and get to the heart of, is our results really happening or are we actually creating dependence and more dependence?

Yeah, without a doubt. And so, rockstars, the thing I want you to hear about what, what she's saying here is the difference between movement and motion. And when we're looking at making an impact with a purpose and a value set, it's so important to make sure that we're measuring the right thing. And that's what you're talking about, Jen, is this idea that, like, what you have come to learn over time is that there's principles that are like gravity, they're not right or wrong. They're just literally the principles that influence things. And if we can understand them, then we can leverage those to create the impact that we want to make. And so it doesn't matter what kind of organization it is. Whether it's a charitable one or a business that's trying to make a positive impact, if we're measuring the right things, we will stay out of just being an endless motion. Which kind of reminds me of what we were talking about, Jen, on some of these other organizations, without slamming them, is that it's more about helping the Americans feel good. And that's what they're really getting at the cost of what we really want, which was we're measuring. What would you say that thing is that we're measuring actually? Is it like independence, self reliance? What would you describe the outcome of what we should be measuring?

Oh, yeah. What we should be measuring is what would happen if we cease to exist. That we should always look at it as, what will you do tomorrow when I'm gone? That always. Are you able to continue to function without the organization continually being involved?

Got it. So what are those principles then? What are those? I love that because those are the things that help us understand true impact is, are they progressing because I am pushing them, or are they progressing because it's like teaching a kid to ride a bike? Almost like I could hold onto that thing and push them around and be like, look how far we've gone. I've measured the distance versus how many pedals did they make without my impact on that? Like, how. How much can they pedal on their own?

Are they gonna need me to always push them or can they ride it on their own?

I love that. In this case, we're talking about thriving, like healthy living versus. But it's still the same idea. So what are. Let's go over the principles. I'd love to hear them.

So the principles, I'll just, like, name them really quick, and we can dive into any of them. Number one is do no harm, which sounds really like a duh concept, but it truly. We really need to check our egos because we do have a bit of a savior complex. Like, let's just. Let's. Let's peel off the pride and just get to the heart of it. We want to go down, and we want to know that we're making an impact. And that's so organizations. Again, it's not malicious. They're not going down meaning to harm the people, but they're trying to strike this balance of we want to give the Americans a good time, we want them to feel useful, so let's put them to work. And then you feel like you're putting your cape on and saving the people. It's the hero complex. The problem with that is anytime there's a hero, there is automatically a victim. You can't have a hero without somebody to save. And so just by that mentality, we're automatically putting people in the victim chair. And then it becomes a what can I do for you? Instead of a what can you do for yourself? What can I enable you to do for yourself? So it's that first principle is kind of do no harm. The second is find the cause of the cause and that's go to the root of the problem. And that's what started Care for Life and what made it where it is today. Cindy, the founder of Care for Life, she went to Mozambique, she went to various places in Africa and they tried multiple things. They tried the giving, they tried to take things over. She's a midwife. So they trained, thought maybe we can train midwives. And people told her, you need to build orphanages because we're having an orphan crisis because AIDS was so rampant. So they, they just said, you need to, that's what you need to do. Get an organization, build orphanages. And to her credit, she stepped back. Well, and she had a conversation with a man on the street and just said, what do you need? And he just looked at her and said, we need knowledge, we need to be educated. So she kind of took all of those things together and kind of thought, okay, why are there so many orphans? What is happening to the family? And in doing research and you can find this, even it's grown today, the statistics. But 80% of children in orphanages have a living family member. But the orphan charity has gotten so big that families in poverty stricken areas know they can just drop their kids off at an orphanage and they'll get fed, they'll get clothed, they'll get educated.

Oh my gosh.

So they will tell their kids, actually, this is what you need to do for your life, for a better life. We can't afford to help you, so you need to go and this is how you're going to get a better life.

What's so heartbreaking for that for me is the idea that like they don't think enough of. They either don't know enough or can't think enough of themselves as capable enough.

Yeah.

The best thing they can do out of love for that child is to give them away. And it's. And we perpetuate that when we show up with a bunch of clothes and medicine and food and give it to them. Yeah.

Yep. Yeah, we're perpetuating that without even knowing. So what she did was Step back and thought, okay, what can we do to strengthen the families so that then the families can care for their kids and won't need to send them to the orphanages? And that was the birth of the family preservation program. And what care for life is known for today is going into villages and strengthening families, which then strengthens the village, which then strengthens the country. So it's kind of taking that step back. I'm in the malnutrition world, and it's so easy to give food. It's so easy to say, these children are malnourished, let's give them food every day. Well, they're going to be hungry tomorrow. So you have to step back and think, okay, first of all, is there. This might be getting too technical, but is there malnourishment, acute or chronic? Is it caused by chronic lack of resources or chronic lack of access to food? Or is it a drought? Is it war? Is it displacement? You have to step back and ask, what is the problem? And then work with that. You can't just. The band aid doesn't work with that. You can go to the opposite extreme with this and think, well, don't help anybody. You know, if somebody's drowning, you're not going to yell at them. You should try swim lessons. You should try the backstroke. You're going to jump in and save them. That's the acute need.

Well, there is a time and place to administer some of these things. Absolutely.

Absolutely. There's the short term. They will die if they don't get it. A hurricane has come, wiped out the city. They need water. They need food. You give them water and food. But five years down the road, if you're still giving water and food, you've missed the mark.

And they might be in a position where they're doing drastic things like giving their kids to the orphanages because they've only relied upon what other people have given them.

Yes, absolutely.

Which, by the way, is so much easier said than done. One of the hardest things that we experienced was we were. We were eating lunch in. In this. That small village in Mozambique and had packed a sack lunch, a very humble sack lunch. It was like PB and J and an apple and a bag of chips. Like that was the extent of it. And these kids are not dying of malnutrition like these, clearly, just to be really clear on that. It's not like these kids were drowning as. As you gave that analogy. But you also saw the moms and the dads working all day, getting a little emotional. You Saw them working all day to make rice for their lunch. And that was like their whole day's effort was to make the meal. Like that was what they did for work that day, was to make the meal for lunch and maybe for dinner. And we have these sack lunches and you see these kids and you could tell this would change everything for them. It's almost like a parent when you can easily buy the Amazon gift for Christmas, or as an employer, when you can step in and solve that problem that they're facing in their department. For them, there's a sense of think it's bad. I think there is a savior syndrome for sure, that I'm guilty of. You want to help? And so we, we literally went into our car, ate our sack lunches. I'm trying to laugh because I don't want to have to get too emotional, but it was like, you're. You're eating this food quietly and it's just breaking your heart because, you know, all you'd have to do is just hand it to them and they could take it. And for that moment, they would be in less pain. They would be in less. But the exchange for that, as you guys are talking about when they're not drowning, and that's the key element here, is that you're sacrificing something greater in that place, which is self belief, self capability, knowledge, whatever it is that we all gain as we progress using those principles.

And it is, like you said, it is gut wrenching. That's probably what gets me more times than not is seeing the hungry kids and knowing I've got a granola bar. Can I just.

I could solve that for today, right now, no problem.

Yeah. It's so hard. In fact, one of the villages, one of the things that Care for Life does with this is so they train village mentors who are then have that knowledge forever. Because care for life is only in a village for two and a half to three years, and then they exit, which is one of the principles that we'll get to. But so part of what they do is they have village mentors that they just train. And one of those does nutrition. And then these little village mentors go find the kids who are malnourished. They do their little arm circumference. And when I was visiting, it was on a nutrition day. And so they had. These healthcare workers had come and they had gathered and they, they were following this little boy and they were teaching the mom how to make their porridge, but how to add in different foods. And everybody it was like a little neighborhood party. Everybody brought kind of their little piece. Some of them brought the wood, some brought the porridge. And the mom, they had the mom cook the whole thing. They sat there and they showed her. And so she cooked it and she fed it to her little boy right on site. And they were so excited and they showed me, look, the tape, it used to be in the red and now it's in the yellow and he's progressing and I lost it and I was crying.

And then the nutrition leader there, she knew I was a dietitian, so she kind of turned to me and said, what do you have to teach us? What are you going to do? And I could stand there and say, you've got it. You've got everything you need right here. I'm just here to be your cheerleader and to support you. You have everything you need. And it was such a beautiful moment. And that's actually one of the principles, is called shadow leadership. That's the next principle. And that is that I need to ask myself, okay, I have this fantastic knowledge. I've got this master's degree, been trained by some of the best professors I know, nutrition. I could easily go there and say, oh, well, you need X amount of carbohydrates and X amount of protein and blah, blah, blah. First of all, it would go over their head. But second of all, what good would that do? When I leave, they, it would be like a 11 hour lecture and nothing.

But if I can help train behind the scenes, way off in the corner, their expert and kind of help her give any help, give her any knowledge, and then she's the one who stands in front of the people and then she's the one. Even when they train the village mentors, the village mentors are there forever. They're not even the employees that come in, so they have that knowledge forever. Even after Care for Life leaves with the official programming so they can continue to do that. So we teach these four fundamental questions of who should be doing what I'm doing, what will they do.

Because I was here today, what can they do when I'm gone tomorrow, and what will they do when I leave? It's always, you're teaching it like you need to be in the shadows. And it's always the community members themselves are the ones who are standing in the spotlight. Always, always, always.

And do you go over these types of questions with them so that they, like have an idea about that, or is that completely behind the scenes? Because I'm questioning whether or not there's value in like sitting down and going, hey, listen. Not to obviously to the front lines, but to the trainers that you're training. Like, hey, this is, this is our criteria of how we're going to be working with you and we want you to use this in working with them. Do you go over that with them?

You know what, that's a really good question. Because we should. Because we don't overtly do that, which now I'm thinking that probably is going to be in the curriculum moving forward, but it's just, it's more in how it's carried out.

The reason I ask honestly is because I'm not. There's so much application to what you're talking about regarding, like the main context, which is care for life and charities in general, that what we're really talking about are leadership concepts that can be applied to a business or a family. And I am literally just self selfishly thinking about my family right now. With my teenage boys. I am thinking about. These are the questions that I should be asking myself. This is how I should be. And I was just literally thinking as you were talking, like, I could. I wonder if it would help my kids to be like, hey, listen, these are the four questions that I have to ask myself as someone who's empowering you to become everything I know you can be. And you don't need me for it. I am just here to support you and cheer you on. Because that mindset is so different. We're in that leadership mode and we all do that as parents, as business owners and people clearly just as human beings trying to help other human beings. Like, when we're in a position of leadership, we want to help, but helping oftentimes crosses those lines we've talked about so that those questions really clarify. Like, if I died tomorrow, would my kids be able to do the things that they're doing now? Like, that's a great question to ask myself.

Yeah, I often call it. I'm a little more morbid than that. I often call it the hit by the bus policy. Like every business, every organization, everything should have this in the back of our mind. If I got hit by a bus today, what would happen? What would happen to my organization? What would happen to my family? What would happen, you know, to these things that I'm heavily involved in? Have I taught enough that they could just after. After proper grieving? Of course. Because they would all be horribly sad.

After that. Could they just pick up and move on without really skipping a beat?

Yeah. Do they have the skills systems, the knowledge to be able to pick up, like in a kid's case, to manage their life and their future as a business owner, run the business successfully and grow it as a human being. Serving another person, helping someone in a village change the way that they live and come out of poverty.

And this is something, when I was a young humanitarian volunteer, this was my little 20 year old prideful self. This was. I, I had inner struggles with this because we were taught that if you are ever told, if you're in an area and if you were ever told, what will we do without you, you have failed.

Wow.

But I want to be needed. I want them to want me. And it's to learn that concept of no, I need to be so in the background that when I trickle out, they don't even notice.

And it's, it's, it's kind of a hard pill sometimes.

Well, I wonder, I wonder how much we get that mindset is what gets in our way in every aspect of our lives. I mean that like, I can't like go into enough detail on the podcast regarding how I'm experiencing this as a parent right now, but I remember as an early business owner is another application where like my patients thought the world of me and I was this great thing and my employees came in and I wanted them to think of the same way and bring me cookies and stuff and, and it really took me a pain. It was a painful realization when I had the right coaching, when I stepped out of my business and the business ran well without me. And I remember going to one of the first like company events where I showed up and it was like, oh, hey, well it's great to see you. There was no like, hey, boss man, you know, I was just a member of the team. I remember how much that hurt is that I had done the right thing with the right support to create leaders that were helping the leaders and the team down to the front line. And I was just a piece of that equation and not the savior that honestly I wanted to be or I don't know, I don't know where that comes from. Maybe that's a different podcast. But I love the fact that by those questions really kind of call it out and force you to look at it.

I totally had that moment.

I had been working with this organization on the other side of Guatemala doing this research project and that was, I'll do Reader's Digest version here. But man, even getting it started was a two year process of getting all these groups to the table. I was like pulling big guns. We needed big funding. We needed the Dietetic association of America, you know, that encompasses 100,000 dietitians. We needed their big guns. We needed, you know, we brought in this Harvard doctor and getting them all at the table. And so many times it was.

Charity organizations don't play nice in the sandbox, I'll just say that. So it was a lot of pull and yank and we got to do this. And here we go. And finally, after two years of all the planning and doing it, we finally get it going and the project is going and yada, yada. Okay, fast forward a year or two later, I'm sitting at this convention, at this national dietetics convention, and I see a seminar that sounds awfully familiar about these garden. The garden project in Guatemala. And I'm like, huh. So I go to that, that seminar and it's these people that I had trained that were sitting up there and talking about this great partnership that they had formed and how they were now doing other research projects. And okay, I would like to say that I was happy, but it took me a good 30 seconds. I like sat there and I'm like, that was me. This is my project. You hated him for like a year and a half. Like.

Like people, I was the reason you got together. And then like this, this concept like slapped me upside the head and I thought I had this. It was so interesting because it was this physical release. I just sat back in my chair and I thought.

Wow, they did it. It's their project, it's not mine. I don't have to like get claw and clamor and grab people at the table. They own it now. It's theirs. And they will move on and they will do glorious projects together. And now I can move on and do other things.

So you grow in that regard. It's almost like when we have that capability of understanding what our roles are, I think, yeah, we have to let go of our pride. But what's so beautiful about that is that we can't progress as leaders without understanding that concept. So as they progress and we can let go of our pride, it's almost like it frees us from all these self limiting, egotistical, you know, thoughts and like, beliefs. And it's so interesting because I use egotistical as like this big heavy word, but that's what it is, you know, and so, and so I felt that same way with my team. When you were describing that later on, I remember thinking, wow, like they're the ones who own their successes. They're the ones who are creating their successes. And yeah, some of the things they're saying are things that I taught them to say and so on and so forth. But when I think about it, I'm like, well, how did I get to that? You know, Like, I don't know. It's just, it's a, it's a, it's a really cool thing to think about. Like, we don't grow up when we go down there and we become the saviors. And in charities or anywhere other environment, when we're the saviors, we don't progress either. When we're the ones handing things over to people who could be more capable than what we're treating them to be.

Us stuck.

Yeah, we are as equally stuck. And maybe, you know, enough. I mean, we might feel better than in some way because we're stroking that ego. I'm a good person. But truly, we're bringing ourselves down as well. Not just them, we're actually putting ourselves down. Hey there, rock stars. Are you, are you sick and tired of hiring expensive front office staff to spend months training them only to find out that they don't meet expectation, or worse, to have them quit on you, leave you in the lurches, only to repeat the cycle? Then welcome to Virtual Rockstar, the only service created by a private practice owner for private practice owners and leaders to help them build their dream teams. Let us hire your next virtual rock star for you overseas. These virtual assistants will blow your mind. Not only are they more talented and committed, but they're a lot more affordable. And they can do all sorts of tasks from phone receptions, medical billing, patient scheduling, insurance verification, marketing, payroll, and more. And the best part is Rockstars, not only are you going to save between 15 and $20,000 of profit per hire per year, you're going to bring a family out of poverty. So stop tolerating less than you deserve and start building your dream team with Virtual Rockstar. To learn more, email info virtualrockstar.com Again, that's info virtual rockstar.com Yep.

And that like, that's a beautiful step into the next principle. The fourth principle is, is to go beyond the fishing analogy. Yeah, because it's, you know, we've all heard the, the analogy of give a man a fish, feed him for a day, teach him how to fish, feed him for a lifetime. But there's a third line to that. Teach a man to feed, teach others to fish, and you feed generations. You know, you train the trainer and then you longer have to you no Longer have to be the one teaching all the lessons anymore. Now it's, now it's beyond you.

And so, yeah, that's what you guys really do, right? You come in and you're providing the missing knowledge base. Because I think that's, that's an. It feels like the gap in all of these steps is understanding or knowledge or both. Because like, like our nature is to, is to progress and be good. But like, to your point, like, whenever I've been stuck in any of my domains of life, I'm not understanding that concept that like my job is just to get them to become a trainer of others, you know, I think. And not knowing how to do that, like, I'm guessing that's a lot of what you guys do. Like there's a lot of. I'm guessing there's policies, procedure manuals on how you train the Mozambiquean leaders to train others. Because that seems like I don't even know how you go about doing that.

Oh, yeah, like even, like to circle back to that nutrition aspect. Like it was training. So we have an on the ground.

Employee based team that kind of is the care for life. They go into each of the villages. It's not American run, it's all Mozambican. So they have the training, you know, they get specialized training and then they go into the village and then they teach these village volunteers how to teach their neighbors.

Oh my gosh. So they're not even. Okay. Do they struggle as well with like the American savior pride issue, or is.

That not as common, not even incorporated into it anywhere?

Like they don't have that, that natural thing that must be like a wealthy country problem.

Like we have money and we're like, oh, we're gonna go help people on TV and that kind of thing.

Yeah, like when Americans come, we're there as visitors. Like, like your experience with your family.

Yeah, let me, let me say something about that because, you know, we went down there thinking we were gonna become this family that was gonna build a bathroom. And Linda did the best that she could. Linda's the. Our wonderful contact. So Linda, as you're listening, thank you so much for everything. We wouldn't be here without you, Linda.

We love you.

We love you. And Linda, by the way, how do you. I can't. Another episode about Linda, but she's got this huge heart. Zero, like zero animosity. Zero. Like just the most sweet lady. Also really strong personality. She strong in terms of her strength. She comes in and she's like, hey, guys, listen. So we really don't want to be the white saviors. We. It took us two minutes of being with the local team to help them build this bathroom. The village had earned. This one family had earned a bathroom, a latrine, which is a fundamental step for them and considered a great privilege to have a cement structure with an actual septic tank. So my family was going to go down there and build that. And that's what we told our boys. We're going down there to build this latrine for this family. It took us two minutes to realize we were in the way. We were 100% in the way. We didn't know what we were doing. The only reason we were even allowed there was because this particular family was a geriatric couple that had grandkids. They were raising like there was no physical way they were going to do that, but. And care for life was kind enough to let us come in. And I. I'm grateful that we looked as bad as we did, because I think it really looked the kids like they were helping us, which was actually what was happening. It's not like a touching end of Hallmark comment. Like, they were really. They really helped us. Like, no, legitimately, we couldn't lay a single brick without them saying. And I remember the contractor constantly was looking at me in particular and just like, do you not know how to do this? Like, it was so fundamental to them. And my boys got a chance to get in there and get their hands dirty and work with them. And the kids would literally laugh at what we were doing. But I also think they were very clear that we were the ones learning, so we would spend time with the kids and play with the kids, and that changed their lives. But at the end of that day, I shared this with you earlier, but, you know, we spent this day working and not really getting much done and being in the way and being taught. But at the end of the day, my youngest son, who's 12, I was worried about them being over there in general and working hard, but he turns me, goes, dad, I don't want to go. And he started crying. And I said, why is that? He goes, because I've never been this happy. This is. This must be what heaven feels like. I mean, we all just started choking up because. And I'm a family, honestly, you wouldn't know from this episode, but we're a family. That doesn't. My family, my boys, we don't cry. Like, we're just very. And we're sitting there getting emotional about it because we're recognizing that what really happened there was that they did. They were the ones who helped us. They helped us see how happy you can be when you don't have what we think you need for happiness. They taught us how to, like, what really matters in life and what we. What we honestly just take for granted all the time. And. And we. And truly, I did not walk away there feeling like I helped anyone other than just showing up. And I do feel like where I did, what we did as a family, that was so beautiful. That did help. That we did love. We loved them for who they were, and we played with them and we connected with them. That I thought. I thought was very safe to do. And. Yeah. So to your point, there's a real. There's a real impact when we can get out of our way and just be willing to go down there to be served in a way versus thinking we're going down there to serve them.

That is so. Oh, that is so beautiful. And that is exactly the essence of what we're trying to shift these experiences to be. Because at the end of the day, what you brought up is the greatest human need is to be seen. And if we can still have these great experiences, still go and see the people, but let them know, you are the expert. I'm here to help, but I know very well you could do this without me. So I'm actually. This is, for me, this is, like, my experience that I'm having.

I don't know if Linda told you this part, but, like, okay, so after we're there for however many days helping build the latrine. I'm using the air quotes on that. For those who aren't here seeing this is that the village realized that we were learning these skills. And so we walked around that last day, like, hut to hut, and they were like, hey, here, this. This is how you sweep our floor. Here, why don't you give it a try? They literally, like, literally we were so. From, like, they were showing us things like, this is how you sweep. So they give us a bunch of. Of straws or branches from a tree, and they. They sweep their dirt floors and make them look really clean and flat and without any debris on them. And so we would start doing it and they would laugh their heads off because we were doing it wrong. And then we were helped. They were showing us how they made rice, where they would pound the grains with these big cements, sticks, and we would start doing it and they would laugh because we were doing it wrong. They were literally like, oh, you got it. You don't know how to do that. Let's show you. And they were showing us how.

What else did they. Did we do? Oh, my favorite is they have this old metal wheel with a metal stick. The kids would use this as a game. Right. Like in the 50s or 40s, you would see kids doing this, and they'd push around this wheel and just keep it going by keeping pressure on the bottom. And I couldn't do that. And kids were literally going into their huts to get their parents to come look at the idiot guy who couldn't figure it out. And they, like, literally belly laughing, cracking up. And it wasn't like, because they thought I was stupid. It was because they just. They. I think it was an. I really think that was cool because I know Linda was worried about us going over and doing all the things we're talking about on this episode, but it really did. It was us learning from them. And there couldn't have been more, like, love and appreciation for giving us that experience of what their culture was like. And yeah, man, it was. It was so powerful. So anyway, I know we're kind of getting. We probably need to get back to the other principles there. But I just really wanted to share that because that was the biggest surprise for me was how we were going over there thinking we were helping, but we went over there to learn and be helped. And that probably reminds me of times where, as a parent or even a business owner, where I've asked for help from my team because I really didn't know how to solve a problem instead of thinking I had to figure it out, otherwise they'll see me as weak. It was almost a real empowering way to get them to become leaders is by saying, I don't know what to do around this, guys, can you please help me? And that really called them forth as leaders and empowered them to be independent.

Yes. It makes everybody the expert. Then we realize, oh, everybody has something to give everybody. Something that we're introducing right now into our questionnaires that we do at Care for Life is historically questionnaires. When you go into a community.

They'Re called needs assessments. What do you need? What do you need? What do you need? The studies have shown that if you flip that and turn it into a skills assessment, then suddenly the entire community becomes so much more in integrated and involved in the solution. Because everybody realizes, oh, we all have something to give. Wow, I'll have a knowledge, even if it's, I know how to sweep my floor. That is a skill. That's A skill that not everybody has. And it's, it's building on people's skills that, oh, you're part of the solution instead of sitting and waiting for, for the handout. And that I love, love you telling about your experience because that's exactly what we're trying to twist on this, the volunteerism realm, which is massive, multi, multi billion dollar industry right now. And it's based on people. We want to go give, okay, we want to go have a cool cultural experience, see a part of the world and then pat ourselves on the back because we're giving service, right. But instead, can we please change it so we still get to see cool part of the world, still get to interact and visit and see people different than us, but do it on an education based where we are learning from them. The service is happening, but it's more service given to us.

But we are also giving service just by being there and just by telling somebody, I see you, like, I, I feel you. It's that connection, that human connection that we're making. It's not we're going to see the zoo animals. It's not we're going to, oh, these poor helpless people, let's go give them a blanket or let's go do this. It's no, we're, we see each other as humans as, as these fellow travelers on this human globe. And it becomes this beautiful unifying experience.

Wow, I love that. And I think, you know, going, if I was to do it again, I think I would even lean into it more and just, and really become more of that student to learn. Because what was so. Again.

Until you go over there yourself, it's really hard to communicate it.

Yeah.

When you're over there and you're staring at people who have so much less than you do and they're so much happier in some cases. And I'm not making light of their struggles or trials because, you know, all the deaths and the statistics are real. But they have a choice in terms of the, the empowerment that they choose to have over their lives. Just in terms of like their emotional well being and so forth. Like, it's so, it's inspiring. They're just missing some things that we just have handed to us. So it's like the best way of helping them progress is by recognizing they have something we don't have to go over as a student and an appreciator and a subject, not in a placating kind of way or in a patronizing way, but in a sincere recognition that they have something that you don't have. And that has stayed with my family. That's why my son didn't want to leave. He doesn't. They don't have social media, which means they, they do have a greater sense of reality. They don't, they, you know, they don't have Amazon. So what they do have is a greater sense of gratitude of what they do have. It's. And these elements can serve us. I remember thinking, man, I, I feel like we went over there in some ways mentally sick to see people who have a healing gift of perspective to share. And that was, that was the service was them giving us that. But most importantly, we know what it looked like, Jen. It just looked like love.

I'm getting emotional again. But like, you can't, you don't know what it's like to be in a village and immediately have these kids sing to you and everyone surround you and just, hey, you're, you're a human being like me. We went to church on Sunday and we were the only non mosin beacons there. And there were literally hundreds of people in this, this chapel. And at the end everyone came and said, shook our hands. It was like an assembly line at a wedding. And I remember thinking, oh, it's because we're the cool Americans. I thought that being really transparent. And then there's there were some new people visiting outside from Mozambique and they went out and did the same thing to them, like, oh, this is just how they operate. If anything, it was probably a little bit weird for them to have us be different, but like, yeah, man, that was an eye opener and shocking revelation.

Yeah.

I just want to say amen. You hit it right on the head because that is the most powerful piece and you learn. So another piece that we talk about when we go in depth in this training is you learn poverty. And when people ask Americans what is poverty? You get the answers. You get the.

Lack of food, lack of shelter, lack of clothing, which, yes, is an indicator. But a group of people, this has been over a decade ago, went to poverty pockets in the world and asked people, what is poverty? And it becomes much more an internal poverty. I feel hopeless. I don't have power to make decisions I don't like. Even the concept of having a goal.

Is just beyond the realm. And so it's getting that internal poverty. And one thing that you said when you said mentally.

Probably you were worse off than they were. My verbiage for that is that you had internal poverty. Because we live in America and we walk around with so much, we can have spiritual poverty, emotional poverty, whatever it is. Internally we can have all the stuff in the world. And yet internally we are so poor and so empty. And that's what they have is a lot of times, yes, they'll feel hopeless and they'll feel that internal poverty, but more often they actually feel this internal strength of.

Just working through their daily lives. And when we can tap into that or when we can both realize, oh, as far as internal poverty goes, we're probably on the same page, right? We're all working through hard stuff and it doesn't have to be harder, hardest. It's. No, we're, we're all working through stuff and that's that again, is that that level to level human connection.

That, that we get by just seeing people and just being there?

It's freeing. It's so freeing. I remember coming back going, oh, I don't, I don't have any problems. And I. And it stayed with me for about a month. It hasn't completely left me. But like for about a month I was like Teflon. Nothing could touch me. And it wasn't because I have stuff they don't have physically. It was the realization of, of just the fact that you can't. It's almost like they empowered me in the way that your organization helps empower them in a, you know, taking care of their life, care for life kind of way. For me, it was taking care of my soul. That was the exchange for me. So what other principles have we not hit?

We've touched on some of these, but just to give them names, like one is family based.

This is something that the humanitarian world at large is starting to really get away from and go more. No, we need to do community or we need to segment the population. We need to do women, we need to do children. Yes, those are vulnerable populations. But, but we can't do that without doing the entire family. And that's one thing that this is just my own personal.

Observations throughout the world. I haven't looked at any hard data on this, although some hard data needs to be pulled up at some point is I've realized when you have really deep poverty pockets there, you can always trace it back. And in everything I've seen, I have been able to always trace it back to something that has ripped apart the family unit. And what I mean by that is from the beginning of time, knowledge has been passed generationally from parent to child. But you find areas where war has broken out, displacement, refugees, or natural disasters, or in Mozambique's case, AIDS epidemic In Guatemala, they had a 30 year civil war that just wiped out generations. You have a break in this natural passing of knowledge and communities and families don't recover from that without some heavy input specifically focused on realigning that natural passage of information and of knowledge. So you can't take out the family unit and have any hope of long lasting results with that. You have to reinstate that natural order of generational changing and as care for life. We're not here to define what a family is, quite frankly. I don't care what it is. It's any unit of people who consider themselves connected and combined.

One example, we visited a boy in Mozambique who, when I saw him, I will never get this image out of my mind. He was standing in the back of his little house in the middle of this beautiful garden that he, that's part of the family preservation program is they learn how to grow gardens. He was 18, may have been 17 at the time, I don't know. He was 17, 18. He had some younger siblings. His father had not been in the picture. I don't know if he had died or had left when this boy was young, young, young. His mother had just passed away six months prior. So we stood there and he was in this deep mourning. But at the same time I sat there and I thought, you have a lot of grief to go through. But you know what, you are part of this family preservation program and you have got a neighbor family, you have got your own family and you now have a network. You won't starve, you've got this garden. He had been learning brick building skills. So now you have a way that you can support your younger siblings. You now are a family unit and you have gotten this knowledge that you can then pass down like it's still a family unit and you're still functioning because of this, of this community wide program that is happening, that is based on the family. It was such a take home and beautiful moment all at the same time.

With that. Well, going back to your questions, I think I love that because when you're going back to those questions, what happens when I'm not here? And you expressed it like being hit by a bus. You know, there's a period of mourning and having the tools and knowledge in place in the community.

You know, this boy, you, you could see that future and that empowerment is so touching. I think that perspective is unique as well. Yeah, because you know, when we're going through life we just avoid those types of moments and we don't want to think about them ever happening. But maybe the bigger problem isn't those moments from happening. It's. It's creating enough community, I think about being a parent. If something should ever happen to me and my wife, do my kids know and love each other enough? Do they have a foundational relationship enough and skill set to where they can be each other's network or if not with each other, then somewhere else? The family unit is the best place to nurture that though.

To have that, yeah, that with. And then that feeds into that. We've already talked about this. Solving chronic problems with long term solution. And there's a cycle of. And this is where it hits into the okay, what when you people tend to ask themselves, well, if I'm not doing anything, how am I helping by going on these trips or by going to see this? Well, let's just be, let's just be blunt and transparent. You are giving money, you're giving money to go on the trip and a lot of that money is going to help behind the scenes. It's not you handing, standing in the village handing out dollar bills, but you have paid money. And that is going to give these people where they're earning, they're earning their incentives. But make no mistake, you are a part of that by giving and by being there. So it's like those who have give, those who need receive, those who receive work, those who work have. So it's helping people like get into this long term solution cycle instead of just sitting on the curb, when is my next handout? When are the next Americans coming? What are they going to give me?

No, it's you. I learned that I work and I earn and then when I earn, I have money to give or I have things to give. It's kind of feeding into the cycle which then feeds into the last two exit strategy.

Any organization that you want to support or work with, automatically ask them what is their exit plan. And I will guarantee the majority of organizations that I work with have not thought this through. They plan to, well, this is where we're going to help. But again they don't have that. What happens if I'm not here tomorrow? So that's one thing that again that I love about Care for Life is. Care for Life, yes, is in Mozambique, but they have been to almost 40 villages. Like they go in two and a half to three years. They work on these six month cycles. So when they start a program.

The day they start, they say this is when we will leave. And here's what is going to happen. Here's what you will be enabled to do when we leave. And they have a massive celebration. The village graduates and they've actually done five year studies.

After the program has ended, they've gone back into the village and studied what has happened. And the majority are at least on par with where they were, if not still continuing to grow.

Wow.

Which to me is the true essence of did I do anything? Is really after I'm gone, are they still doing something with that? Or have I been going to the same village for 10 years and making up things for the expeditioners to do?

Yeah. Bringing more food to the next generation that doesn't know how to grow it themselves. I will tell you. So Jen, we, we spent most of our time in a village that careful life hadn't been in for very long. And the last day before we left we visited a village just to show the difference of a, of a village that was about to graduate or just had graduated. I couldn't believe it when we pulled into the second village. Obviously they were familiar with some Americans even though I don't think there was a lot of, of you know, Americans going in there. That first of all when you pulled in, the first thing you notice are the smiles. The people in general are just happier. And that is literally shown in their countenance. The second thing is more of the physical evidence that you see around. Like you have people who are, there's a lot of shops, people have little, little businesses. They're selling oils and charcoal and like there's these like little businesses and that as an entrepreneur that's what I just love. Because I think at the end of the day I think it all points towards entrepreneurship when it comes to the physical act of taking care of another person. I think that's what it boils down to. And so but we came out of the car, we all these people came up, they showed us some different things that the other village hadn't shown us. But the energy was night and day. One was, was really like survival content survival but struggling. And the other one was like we're struggling but we're this. If I had to put a language it was like we got this. And that to me was so amazing. And to see that difference there. And there was no, there was no Americans anywhere. Painting walls like these are just, they're just people, they're just a village and they're like oh by the way, another thing I have to just throw out there. All these villages are matriarchies, they're, they're run by, well, the Ones we went to. And there's a. There's a woman who's like the leader. So how can they be so far ahead of us? We're like, literally this. And I remember I didn't know what they were saying, but you knew what she was saying. Like, the kids would come up and she'd be like, oh, she's reprimanding him and she's praising him and supporting him. Like, you could just hear the energy and like the other villages kind of look to the matriarch who's kind of helping call the shots. And anyway, that was really cool to see that out, that outcome.

So cool. That's awesome.

Did we hit all the principles or are there still left?

The last one is Data Driven. Is you've got it. You have to measure what you're doing as an organization. Otherwise it's just pie in the sky and it's just a dream. And that's with organizations. You can ask for data. What is. Okay, you've been doing this for 15 years. Show me the data on the first village you started.

How are they doing? That was a question I asked when we were just in Guatemala. We were following an organization and they were doing gardens. And I said, okay. So we went to the village where they had started and I said, how many families did their gardens and how many still have them running? And I got suddenly kicking in the dirt and. Well, we don't really know.

I don't know. So you've got to get the numbers. As much as it is about the people, if you really want to show progress, you have to realistically be able to check yourself and know if you are doing what you think you're doing. And it could be anybody looking for any cause to support. This just gives you some good gauges and questions to ask and to see if they're on track, if they align truly with really making an impact.

What I was hearing in my head as you were talking was just like this idea that at the end of the day, you measure what matters. And so you're talking at that last principle. I think this is another concept that we just as any organization, if we know what matters and we can measure it, then we're automatically going to see improvement. One of my favorite quotes is, if you measure, I'm going to get this wrong. But it's like when you measure something, it improves. When someone measures and reports on it, the improvement is exponential. The idea that your villages, you're measuring their progress. But then what you guys have going on is you're teaching people how to measure it themselves so that they can measure and then report up through their hierarchy. And then you see that growth in the faces of the kids and the parents and well, listen, this has been such a phenomenal podcast. How do people support Care for Life? If you could. There's a lot of entrepreneurs who were in the space that I was and rockstars. Just to be clear. I was looking for something to help my kids and to get me out of my mental funk with being only worried about my business and all these types of things. This has absolutely been the cure for that. There's no question on a way that I can't over promote. But if you were just what are the different ways people can support Care for Life and how can they, how can they do that?

People can absolutely in so many different ways. Going to the website careforlife.org you can see, speaking about data. You can see, you can see the numbers and the data which kind of blew my mind when I saw of reducing maternal mortality, infant mortality. It is phenomenal.

So you can just, if you want to write a check, you can click to donate. You can become a monthly supporter where you just give a little bit. You can adopt a village. We've had some groups go in and they say, okay, we want to sponsor an entire village to go through the whole three year cycle.

And then you can really get connected to that village. You can get reports on that village. You can see how it's going, how it's doing. You can help us expand. If you want to go somewhere else, if you would like to see this going somewhere else, shout out to Guatemala. Just throwing that out there.

Get in touch with us, contact us, send us an email. We are right now looking for supporters to go into different countries and people who have a passion for the work and also a passion for people in a country. If you want to do more, if you want to volunteer, come on board. We are always looking for volunteers. If you want to jump in, if you want to like will take your family on an expedition, you are more than welcome. We are expanding it. Next summer we're going to do several expeditions that are, that we will do deep dives into all of these principles. We're going to take a day and really touch hardcore on each of these principles and have discussions and, and really have it, have it be a deep educational experience as well as cultural experience. So you're welcome to do that any, any level that you're comfortable. Come on board. We would love to have you.

Yeah. What you do matters, rock stars. And yeah, as someone who can just tell you straight up, there is. It's a life changing experience, I would highly recommend that you just get involved. You know, there's so many different charitable options out there. What we're talking about here is the most important way we can serve, which is helping human beings pull their entire village out of poverty of, you know, money, heart, spirit. Like, we are helping in the Care for Light organization. I say we because once you go, you're in it. Like, for me, my wife is now helping with the newsletter. You know, there's something so powerful because even though, like, the money is. Is really one of the biggest things, I think what really helped me want to give more money was understanding it and seeing it. And then like, for me, I literally have these thoughts of like, if I ever come into money, here's how much I'm going to give to Care for Life. Because it is, it is not anything other than. I mean, it'd be the. One of the best uses of my money I could possibly, probably use. So thank you so much, Jen, for this wonderful podcast. We're going to put all of this in the notes and maybe we could even get that video I remember Linda showed us before we left. It was an older, you know, showing the stats and all those things. I'll put that in the show notes if you'd like. But thank you so much for your time. I sure can't thank you enough.

Thank you. This has been amazing. I love this thing and thank you for all you do in spreading message.

I'm just starting, but I am not going to stop. And guys, listen, I'm going to be really transparent with you. Jen and I have a very shared vision of what we want to create here. She and I met.

30 years ago as missionaries in Guatemala and didn't know it until we were talking together today. This is complete coincidence. You can't make this stuff up. We were talking today about the podcast and she's in Minnesota, I'm in Arizona, and we actually served in Guatemala for over a year, overlapping together and have such a great love that our big hope is we want to expand Care for Life aggressively into Guatemala. And we'll talk more about that on future episodes. But please do what you can to support. But most importantly, guys, knowledge is the thing that we're teaching today. So I'm. I want you to take all the concepts. I'll probably do a standalone episode. Jen, if you can send me those principles, I'll do a solo episode, really highlighting those into like more of a business world for people. But we're talking about the keys to success of not only how to grow a great business and have it be profitable, but by doing it through educating people, our clients, our employees, our children out of poverty and all those different types that exist. So Rockstars, thank you for listening. Make sure you check the show notes and we'll see you next time. Thank you for listening Rockstars. And if you're one of the many medical professionals and leaders who have had it dealing with the drama of hiring and training people that you think are overpriced, then let's think about how virtual assistants can offload you to do what you love, which is changing people's lives. In the show notes, there's a link to jump on our calendar so that we can show you why LinkedIn shows that virtual virtual assistants is the second fastest growing trend in healthcare next to artificial intelligence at no obligation. We'll see if this is a fit for you. I hope to talk to you soon.