Empowering the Next Generation of Physical Therapists with Heidi Jannenga

Welcome to Willpower, Rockstars. Today we have Heidi Jananga, the CEO and founder of WebPT. Now listen, guys, this is going to be a very different interview. She's going to go into initially how technology is evolving at WebPT and some really cool aspects of how they're leveraging that to help make people's lives easier and better. Remember, they're the biggest EMR in the space right now, and they're coming from a place of hyper focusing on the future and changing things along with technology. But what's cool for me in this episode was listening to Heidi talk about her personal purpose. Guys, it's hard to put into words what that's like. She starts about halfway through the episode where she draws in from why she became a PT, why that led into WebPT, how it started a charity, and then there is gold to be mined regarding our discussion around this idea of mindset in physical therapy as owners going into leadership as well as the beautiful arc of entrepreneurship. Learn, earn, return. Enjoy the show.

Hey, rockstars. I am so excited for today's episode. A good friend of mine from WebPT, Heidi Jananga, is with us today to be on the show to reconnect. Heidi, how are you doing?

Good, how are you? I'm so excited to be here and so thankful that you've asked me to be a guest today. We are friends and have gone known each other for quite a while through the PT world. So really, really excited to be here.

Yeah, it is a small world. I tell people it's a really small pond and so we have known the same people forever. You started WebPT? Down the street from where I started my first practice. And like anyone else, we all know webpt. But what's really cool is that you were a featured healthcare hero on my YouTube channel before I launched my podcast. So it was really neat because I only featured three people over those three years. And your episode, just so you know, for me, went viral into the low thousands of views, which is a lot for me. I used to get tens of views, so when I got a thousand with yours, I was like, whoa, Heidi's amazing. Yeah, for sure. So I'm so grateful that you're spending time with us. And let's get right into it, Heidi, because I know the rock stars who are listening. They know you. They know your company at least, but probably know you. And as everyone knows, WebPT, the largest EMR in the industry that was started in the early 2000s, is now in this state where technology is changing rapidly every minute. Technology is Evolving and changing. And the big buzzword is AI. So let's talk about AI just right out of the gate right there. Because in our pre call you were mentioning like, yeah, maybe we should talk about just what that is first of all, because I'm thinking I don't know about you, but I talk to people and they oftentimes mention AI like it's one thing, like, oh, I've got AI, I've tried physical therapy, that kind of thing. So.

What do you say to people about AI in general who are maybe just learning about it?

Yeah, I mean it conjures up artificial intelligence, conjures up all kinds of images for people, right? From, you know, robots taking over the world to those that might be a little bit more in the understanding of the large language models that can, you know, compute things very quickly and solve problems. If you've tried ChatGPT and the sort of the chatbot model. And so yeah, there's. It is obviously taking every industry by storm. But I do think that it's important to understand that it is still in its infancy and although that it is starting to evolve very rapidly.

I don't think that it's going to take over healthcare and I definitely don't think it's going to take over physical therapy or replace physical therapists anytime in the near future.

Yeah, I mean, you're a pt, you grew up in that world and you know, what has been your experience with your clients? How are they? Is artificial intelligence widely being used.

By PT owners that you work with or is that still kind of like this thing? They've heard of ChatGPT and they kind of leave it at that?

No, I really think that there is a lot of usage of ChatGPT. It's really revolutionized how we think about just a lot of things, not even just documentation or writing, whether it's blog posts or generating content for your website, things like that. I think that it's widely being used, but in terms of clinical practice, I think they're really turning to companies like ours to understand and implement more of the parts of AI that enable and help them to be more efficient in their practice. I know you had mentioned that you had Prediction Health on as a guest previously and we are great partners with Prediction Health in helping to empower the use of some of our data into being able to leverage that for our clinicians with regard to their documentation and making that more efficient. One of the biggest pieces that we're utilizing when it comes to AI is the machine learning components in which we since we have been around since the early 2000s, our differentiator amongst any of the other EMRs out there is that our data set is larger. And so that the ability for putting our large data set into AI to be able to create more predictions and decision making as well as automating some of the experiences behind the scenes to enable tasks to become easier for our clinicians is a lot of what we're working on today really, it's all about efficiency.

Oh, that's so cool. So rockstars, as you're listening to this, one of the things that Heidi punched that's really big, she talked about how what makes WebPT so significantly different is her data set. She's talking about, as it sounds, all the data, all that metrics, every piece of information that your clinics have worked with over the now decades is now compiled. And it's interesting because that sounds important, but I have just recently learned, Heidi, how valuable data is. So like take Tesla for example, they've got those self driving cars out there. I was talking to a friend of mine who works there and he was saying how the future for them is the data that they're aggregating. Because some companies now are trying to do these self driving cars, but what they have is billions of data points across the country now across the world. So that as they develop their cars, like these new cyber taxis that they're developing, their goal is to start selling real estate around the car. It's just because the data is so valuable.

Yeah. And what AI has enabled is the acceleration now of, I mean it's been, you know, 17 years of collecting data and while we've been able to do a few things with it, it's the now acceleration of the value of that data, as you put it, but also how to put that data into action. Right. And that's what's been accelerated through these large language models and AI being able to, you know, create and problem solve with the data to learn as it, it collects and compares a lot of these different data sets from different diagnoses. And it's one of the things that we knew early on was going to be important. It's why.

We don't get it in PT so much because we love the narrative format of being able to just type out a note, but having these discrete data elements that can then be taken in and analyzed is something that we knew would be important even back in the day. And so it's why we created WebPT early on in a different sort of format than others were doing. Where you're just typing in a word document, if you will today. Now there's also the ability to ingest some of that data through natural language processing where you can analyze those words off the page to be meaningful. But that takes a little bit more time than already having this sort of discrete data set. So it's going to be exciting. Future here rapidly changing, as you mentioned, how we think about documentation, how we think about the business side of PT and being able to apply some of these newer technologies into lots of different areas that today are either manually based or we're kind of guessing as we go along.

Yeah, that's exciting. Tell me a little bit if you can share with the rock stars as well, a little bit of how you guys are leveraging technology, AI whatever it is currently that's maybe a little bit newer and if you could maybe even preview a little bit of whatever you can share about where you guys are going.

You have a diagnosis of a patient, you've created plans of care with specific treatment options, whether it be exercises or therapeutic activity, manual therapy treatments. So now it's taking all of that information and being able to say these specific plans of care with treatment associated with it created the best outcomes. So we're going to be able to truly say and have a better understanding of how many visits does it take on average across the US.

With this type of treatment associated with it for these types of patients, these demographics, these specific comorbidities to be much more. I think we have some gross data around this, but now being much more in depth and detailed with being able to do a little bit of predicting, but more importantly helping the therapist to guide them. I love the term that is utilized now and a lot with, a lot with programming is a copilot. And so how I see WebPT in the future is really the copilot to the physical therapist where you're not driving, but you're really assisting, providing the data real time and that computation of the information that's being entered or has already been entered based on what we know from previous patients that look very similar to the patient that might be in front of you to help guide them into.

Creating home exercise programs based on the exercise that you specifically as an individual like to prescribe for this particular patient of this diagnosis in this comorbidity, just as an example.

Yeah, I like that because it feels the way you're describing that, Heidi, as an evolution for WebPT going from being a online tool that was way more efficient than Word docs, which as a side Note, I don't know if you know this, but I was one of your earliest adapters back in 2007, I think it was. Oh, it's, I sold the company. But you know, anyway. But you're going from this advanced tool set to being an extension of the therapist. So it feels like it's more like this appendage in the clinical sense and from a business owner perspect, because the use cases of what you just described, one of the ones I thought of, that's kind of low hanging fruit, but just was like, yeah, when I was talking to therapists who used to work for me who weren't really getting buy in from their patients.

Some of the excuses were, well, they're discharging in three days because I'm so good. It's like, well no, they're not showing up after three days and that's not the same as being discharged. And look at this data set of national averages. Like you're saying, there's just so many applications that we could use both on the clinical set as well as a business owner set. So I love to hear that and I love that you guys are building partnerships in with Prediction Health. What are some of those partnerships that you guys have integrated or currently integrating to help continue this extension of the clinician or owner's arm?

So we have utilized a lot of tools on the front end from the marketing side of being able to.

You know, be able to reach patients who either have not come in yet or that, you know, you potentially could reach to, whether it's Direct Access or physician groups. So a lot of, a lot on the marketing side. And then as we talked about earlier, just now with Prediction Health, but also in terms of the insurance verification process, we're partnering with groups on the credit card processing to make that easier. Another similar to us having this larger data set because we are the largest in the industry and have the largest base of membership, as we call it, members of our community in our customers, we have been able to leverage that to provide opportunities for our members to have pricing options that they couldn't get. So it's the group buying power, if you will, that we're now able to leverage. So being able to do the credit card processing for significantly less than you could get, just going out as a small business on your own to try to do that.

Yeah, that is really neat. I love how you guys are working to develop other companies that are specializing in niche aspects of this technology to help bring them in and bring it to your people at a lower Cost as well. That's cool. Yeah, that's neat. So as you look forward, as WebPT looks forward and as you're in that role as the visionary, which by the way, my favorite thing about you has always been not the webpt which I love webpt is I love the leadership that you bring because I did an interview set at that Healthcare Hero YouTube video. I interviewed a handful of your employees and the big thing they said was your kindness and your visionary. So as you're, I can imagine that you're starting to get a clearer picture of the future for WebPT. Maybe you already answered this question, Heidi, with the extension of it being automated. But you know, what do you see maybe for WebPT's growth and maybe bigger impacts and those types of things that you see for the company?

Yeah, it's really continuing to utilize or leverage our data set in different ways. Whether that's working with payers to improve our ability to show value.

And hopefully negotiate or assist our companies and clinicians with negotiating better rates with insurance companies. Whether it's on the marketing side of really promoting and being able to utilize direct access to their maximum capacity that they can of getting it out there to the value of pt getting out there to more and more folks. The other piece is just as a technology company is really about our interoperability pieces, so being able to connect with other technology platforms to.

Enable a more.

A better and improved patient experience across.

Multiple healthcare disciplines. Right. PT is a part of a plan of care that may include physicians, may include massage therapists, may include a case manager, for example. How can we get that.

Data being able to flow fairly seamlessly to follow that patient throughout their entire episode of care that's needed to get them in a better place, whether it's back to work or.

Back hugging their grandkid, whatever their goal is being an integral part of that. This is what you're seeing in the greater healthcare experience is that interoperability being a big piece of that. And then the other piece I would say is really around a more personalized care model. And this is where AI is going to come in a little bit as well, is really understanding who is that person sitting in front of you and how can you have a little bit, rather than sort of just a broad sort of sweep that we do want standardization of care, but how do you make that standard be a little more personalized to that particular person that's sitting in front of you? And so some of those AI and predictive models I think is going to really help with Whether we focus on early intervention or prevention or specifically to that person in front of us post injury, I think that's really going to be helpful in the future.

Yeah, it's beautiful how the data set ends up making the experience something very impersonal, like data is making the experience more personal. We can leverage that, increase the connection, because that's why all of us came into physical therapy was more on the human connection, kind of total left field a little bit. Why did you become a pt?

So I have a similar story than many. I was an athlete in college. I was a basketball player. I played at UC Davis in Northern California. Was actually pre med and went down with a knee injury my junior year in college and had an mri. It was inconclusive, but I thought I had, you know, partially torn my acl, but didn't want to do surgery. So I got sent to a physical therapist who totally rocked my world and changed my whole trajectory of my profession moving forward. I was able to play that year with a brace and then worked really hard with her all summer and played my senior year with no brace and even set a couple records of scoring records and whatnot that year. So I'm forever indebted and never looked back. And went on to get my master's at St. Augustine and then my doctorate from EIM and after 17 years of practice in sports medicine, decided to dabble in this whole technology thing.

Why not? Well, you know, because back then, literally, I remember when my PT came out, Heidi, I was literally documenting on word. I was. I don't even think I was.

I. That was the problem.

Yeah. And it was funny because I will tell you, a lot of my patients tolerated treatment well objectively. When you just look at the flow sheet and, you know, the typical soap, the quick and dirty soap, no C plan of care, like just boom, like that kind of thing. Those days are gone, gratefully. I think there's an improvement there. But, yeah, it's interesting how you made that pivot. Just kind of going back to the therapist that inspired you. What was it that rocked your world about it?

When you're an athlete, you want to be back on the court. And it was really the outcome and the encouragement along the way that really was what was inspiring. When you. I went to see the physician. They kind of were very objective about the whole thing. And my therapist gave me hope.

And not only did she give me hope, but she gave me goals and helped me get there. And that was really, at the end of the day and then together achieve those goals right and so I had sort of thought that, well, maybe I'm never going to play again. And not only did I play, like, I had a stellar career for another, another year and a half. And so that's really what sort of wowed me that, oh my gosh, if she was able to do this to me for me, like, I want to be able to do this for other people. Right. In terms of knowing that I wanted to go into healthcare, that sort of helping Gene was already part of me. And so.

And also, you know, the difference that we, that I now, we all know now is just the difference in a physical therapist being able to see the patient build that relationship over multiple visits versus kind of the one in, one out that a physician sort of has to have.

Yeah, I love the connection part of your story. It's interesting. I mean, when you heard the first part of this episode, it's like, obviously there's a technology master understanding the market and doing what you've done in this space, but really what drives it for you is that creation of hope. Right. Like something that was very initial for you. So what was it that had you pivot into WebPT? What was it about that for you? I know your general background story, so I mean, you're happy to share the details, but like, what was the part that was like, wow, that really speaks to me?

Well, I think that it was all about problem solving. Like, at the end of the day, we're all problem solvers in how we approach each patient that sits in front of us and we listen and we hopefully create solutions. You know, when we first started building WebPT, I honestly was skeptical. I was a paper writer too, and that was quick and it was fast and it was efficient and it was what you knew. Right. And so pivoting to something totally different with technology, which was very foreign to me. I was not, you know, the iPhone carrier or whatever at that point in time. Like, I was a little technology obtuse, if I'll be honest. And, and so what really sort of triggered the all in was.

After we started using it and the positive feedback and again, the outcome of creating a goal that it had to be better than what we were already doing and then seeing that and getting that feedback from those in my practice, but then the lightning quick adoption that were with 10 other therapists in my area and clinics in my area who were so willing to try it and were giving us positive feedback and encouraging us to keep going.

That'S when we really recognized and thought, oh my gosh, we probably Stumbled onto something here. And the piece for me is again that helping Gene. And when it finally clicked for me that cause I leaving patient care was extremely emotional and hard, totally part of my identity. Even today when someone asked me like, what do you do? What's your profession? And I still come out with I'm a physical therapist. That's the first thing that I say. The thing that clicked for me was I am helping this many patients right, with what I'm doing as a physical therapist. But wow, if we really do what we think we can do with WebPT, how many more patients can be affected by this piece of technology that can empower therapists to see one more patient or two more patients in a day or in a day or however many in a month, how much more impact could we have with this profession? And that was the big light bulb that went off for me in triggering that helping Gene to have more of effect than what I was doing within my own practice.

So it's interesting. I've noticed, Heidi, thank you for saying that. I've noticed how.

For almost all the entrepreneurs who are listening, all the rockstar entrepreneurs who are owning it, their self identity as a therapist, the initial passion that brings them into the profession becomes a limitation for them as they evolve if their evolution does not involve patient care. I know, I went through that. I've coached many people through that piece because there is such a draw, not draw, it is the fulfillment of our purpose the real way. And like in your case, and there's a different flavor with everyone, what I would just kind of throw out there is your flavor of it is this idea of how physical therapy to you was this hope through hard work and goal setting to create a new freedom for yourself. And that's what you found the connection in WebPT the way I heard it was, wow, there's this problem. It's a limitation. It's hard. I can create a freedom through goal setting and like having people have hope to grow their practices and not be, you know, a slave. We had no idea when we were doing our practices, Heidi, when we were treating how complicated the insurance documentation world was going to get.

Like, oh my gosh. Yeah. And it's even gotten more complicated over the years.

Oh, and it's like, and by the way, it's so funny, we're filming this the day after an election that like you can't say very much without polarizing people these days. But you can say insurance companies are bad. And everyone goes like, it doesn't care. I don't care. If you're red, blue or some shade in between, you are just like, it's universal. It's universal. So it's interesting as companies like yours are taking a stand against that, how they're leveraging technology, but really it's about that human connection for them. And, yeah, I'm so glad that you overcame your mindset of like, I'm a Pete, but I do the same thing. I honestly got my haircut recently, in case you can't tell. And I literally. The lady's like, so what do you do? I'm like, I'm a physical therapist. Because I just told her. It's so much. It's honestly also easier. But I love saying that. And they go, oh, so you help people. There's this cool. I'm so proud of. I still have my name tag when I was a technician, my first tech job ever, back in Intermountain Healthcare when I was 18 and amazing. That's never left you. That's never left you. All of this. That's. I mean, for me, it's a little surprising just because you've achieved a height that I don't know anyone else that has. Like, that still hasn't left you.

I don't know what it is. It's that connection, but it's also sort of the foundation to understand because I have stayed in the profession and in the industry, you know, so even when I go and I speak at entrepreneurial conferences and they say that you give your bio. And I always start with, I'm a physical therapist by trade and I happen to have now also started. And I think part of it is this importance, especially as we think about building technology, is the subject matter expertise that has been one of our differentiators through all of our different rounds of funding, from venture capital to private equity and so on. It's. It's about the subject matter expertise and those companies that have it and start with it because you truly know the problem and you can tangibly understand what these solutions will be or might be. Right. If you're living the problem, you're going to have so much more passion about solving it.

Yeah. And so you've never let it go because it's an extension of what you've always been. And I would validate that for the rock stars that are listening who are struggling with stepping into leadership full time. Not stopping treating is that it's an extension. I haven't treated a patient and gotten reimbursed in over a decade. I have evolved through different companies to what I'm doing now, and I only feel like I'm doing more of the same thing now. I don't get the cookies. I miss the cookies. I miss the treats, you know, and the awkward, you know, old person hugs at the end. I gotta go. But like, but apart from that, it's. It's a beautiful realization of your purpose.

Well, our validation comes so much in living that purpose. Right. And I'll just say again that that moment of light bulb was that epiphany that you and I think a lot of clinic owners finally get to this, that if you can put a little more time into your business, then it enables you, the business is getting better and running more efficiently and driving more revenue. Well, guess what? You can hire another therapist. You can expand your reach. You can have more patience. Right? You can do all of these other things, but it just takes a little bit of time where you can't do it. All right? You need a team. And if that's what you want to do. Because I'll also say, like, I always celebrate, like, it's not always about growth, and I really celebrate a lot of the small businesses out there in lots of different industries, because that's really what drives this country. Right? I mean, we're built on small business. And so it's not always about aspiring to be the hundred clinic practice. I mean, if that's what you want, go for it. But there's a lot to be said about local businesses who are in their communities and helping the local residents in a certain area that you are the go to PT for that city. I'm in that town. I love that. And I think that's so important.

Yeah, I think that's hard because growth is organic in the sense that when you are very passionate and good, it becomes a need to start learning how to hire, which is a new skill set. And then you start maxing your physical space. So you either expand or open another location. That opens up a whole new door of learning, opportunity and challenge. But I remember at one point we had five locations. And I remember thinking, man, not just fulfillment wise personally, but profitability wise. That single location was arguably the best stage of my business. So the stage of a business does not indicate impact necessarily. It's how much we live our purpose. Like you're saying. I love that.

Well said.

Oh, I was just rephrasing what you said, so that's great.

I am so glad to hear that. Now, the one thing I will say is a nice little segue here is that when you do stretch, maybe in a stage of business and you go Heidi's route and you start taking on something that becomes what it is. It's got its own challenges, for sure, and rewards. I think what's cool is that in the way that you live your physical therapist heart is how you've leveraged the growth of WebPT to then create the Rising Tide foundation, which is something that if you know, again, it's not better or worse, it's just different. But when we're small, that impact is there. And when you're big, there's opportunity to do things like the Rising Tide Foundation. So can you tell the audience about that foundation that you started in 2020 first?

I'll just say back to sort of your purpose.

I'm a product of two immigrant parents who part of our values growing up was always about paying it forward. Right. They for sure were doing everything possible for me to have more opportunity than they had. And so having that innately inside of me and being inspired by that was part of the foundation of Rising Tide, which is a scholarship program specifically for students pursuing their doctorate of physical therapy, as well as residents, all of which are from underrepresented backgrounds, ethnic backgrounds.

It spawned out of.

Us doing WebPT, doing our state of Rehab therapy industry report every year. And we always talk about the demographics, and there's a lot of conversation about the lack of diversity within our profession, or for sure, not even coming close to mirroring the general population of the United States.

Yet those numbers over multiple, multiple years just weren't changing.

As I dug into the problem, one of the biggest areas of concern was really around the cost of education.

And while many ask, look, well, why didn't you just challenge that? That's such a behemoth of a thing to try to attack.

Helping these students who. The number one reason that students of color drop out was a fear of student debt, accumulation of student debt.

And they don't even apply because they think it's going to be too expensive. And so sort of taking down that barrier through our scholarship program was really what we were trying to accomplish. And it's just been even more than I had ever anticipated in terms of impact and reward.

Would you be okay if I share a little bit of that impact? I don't want to embarrass you, but I think it's important for here. I'm going to come over here because I didn't have this memorized, but I loved how this looks. So the Rising Tide foundation, rising with a Z, by the way. I love that. Since it started in 2020 has raised 1.5 million. I got chills. $1.5 million in financial support to 54 aspiring physical therapists ensuring, as it says here, ensuring that ethnicity or socioeconomic background does not hinder their pursuit or education and success. If I could just say things correctly, that would sound better. But I love how.

This idea from your investigation of what's needed and wanted resulted in an idea. So again, taking that third step. You're an injured college athlete, you're set back, you see a problem, you go to work on the problem. I mean, if there's a tattoo that you should have on your back, it's I work the problem.

I'm a problem solver. Exactly.

Yeah, I'm a problem solver. That might be better.

Sure.

And then you go, you at WebPT and now the Rising Time Foundation.

Yeah. And will the through line through all of it is also similar in culture and.

Community. So we call our WebPT customers members on purpose. We did that from the beginning because we always thought about it as a WebPT community, if you're part of it. The same thing as what we're creating in Rising Tide.

With our scholars and all of the applicants. Obviously, we have over 1,000 people now in our database who we connect with on a regular basis. So we're wrapping these scholars not only with scholarship funding, but we meet with them every quarter in their fleets, as we call them, their cohorts. And we bring in speakers. I'd love to have you be a speaker at some point. You know, rock stars from the industry. So anybody out there, all of you rock stars, we would love to potentially have you as a speaker, speaker, or a mentor. You can sign up on our website if you. If you're at all interested. It's just R I Z I n g tide.com.

And yeah, we're, we're really trying to allow these students to have access to, you know, folks that are inspiring and really help to.

Allow them to see what's possible in this industry.

So beautiful. And it's a wonderful.

Throwback to our podcast that we're on. The whole point of this show is to help people find power in their network, because the greatest lesson I've ever learned was that my network is my net worth, which I don't even love that phrase because it sounds like a financial thing, which it can be, but it's very much an emotional net worth. It's like finding a mentor. I've never not had a coach or a mentor in the last 15 years because I learned that helping People is the best way to grow. And it's part of that entrepreneurial journey, right, Heidi? It's Learn, Earn, return. Right? And so all these wonderful pts, if they're listening and it calls to you at all, please, rockstars, go to the website. Because it's been a surprise to me that, that I have realized what one of my mentors told me, which is that when I am returning and like helping somebody else, I actually learned so much more at that level for myself than I ever could have imagined than when I was being mentored. So, Heidi, I think that's so cool that you have created this platform that is now connecting PT owners to help a population that, that is. Look, that would benefit greatly.

Oh, yeah. 90% of our scholars are first time college goers. And so when you talk about networking, their network is this small, right? Their parents may not even be the ones that are helping them in how they get through PT school, let alone just this college path that they've decided to pursue. So it's really again, wrapping them with other people, exposing them, connecting them, getting them sort of this soft landing into our profession to where they really have a network to fall back onto. And so that's really again, what the Rising Tide community is all about. And I just, I couldn't be prouder of.

The scholars who have been through our program, those amazing students that we've been, that we've met, but also just all of the volunteers who have helped us, we have a group we call our Beachcombers. We kind of have this nautical theme going on with Rising Tide, but just some folks who have just been there from the beginning, helping to mentor and support me through the process of learning how to run a nonprofit and develop this whole academic side of my knowledge base, which wasn't there prior to doing this. And wow, have I learned a lot about our academic system of becoming a DPT and even the residency programs now. So there's just so much to learn. And I know part of what you and I have talked about in the past is that you never stop learning, right? You never stop sort of being a sponge to new things around you. And hopefully you never do. Right? Because if you. I don't know, what is it the saying if when you stop learning, you're dying or something like that?

Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about. And I remember it less than you do, but I remember. Sorry. I remember the main point was because I was actually at a conference where this guy, Peter Diamantes, he's like this healthcare Guru. He's got tops.

Oh, yeah, I saw him.

Okay, so I saw him too. Oh, it was at eo. I saw you at the EO event that we.

Yeah.

Yes, yes, yes. Just realizing that we were both at that conference and I'm referencing. And I saw you briefly as we were passing, and that's a totally non PT specific network. Because, guys, Heidi, you'll learn. This is that as you build your network, the networks start interacting and overlapping, and then the world that seems so big becomes so small, and then it becomes more enjoyable because you have people to share it with. So we're at that thing, and he was talking about the drivers that caused death. And one of them was a lack of learning. One of them is loneliness. But one of them was like, you just stopped learning. So these ideas of learn earn return. They're not siloed. It's this evolution. So as Heidi Rock stars. As Heidi was developing the Rising Tide, she had to learn about it from a mentor, ironically, because she was building something to return to people who were needing her help. So it's kind of like the Lion King. It's the cycle of life, and it's beautiful.

The cycle of life. I love it. The cycle of entrepreneurship.

Yeah, the cycle of entrepreneurship. Have you written a book yet?

I have not, but you are the third person that's asked me that this year, so I might have to put that on my bucket list.

Look, I'm not talented a lot of things, but I know when someone needs to write a book, and I'm just saying it on air live. So everyone's listening to this so that they'll bug you as well and be like, hey, so on the podcast, I heard you might write a book one day. And so just to build that pressure, because I think there's something beautiful there to be said.

Heidi, thank you for that.

I'm so grateful to have had you on the podcast. It's been a joy to connect with you again. I think it would be really fun to have.

Maybe, if it works, to have someone from the Rising Tide, one of the. Not the callers. Scholars, you call them in the groups. What do you call them when they're in a group or pack?

Oh, a fleet.

A fleet. I love that. Like someone from the fleet, if they can come over with you or on their own. I don't know. It'd be kind of fun to just talk about the same concept from the other side so people can hear that and understand the connection piece. Because as we. I will say this as we step in different stages of business. As entrepreneurs, it does become sometimes harder to get validation in our efforts, which is why I like the cookies. I think the cookies had nothing to do with. As much as I love cookies, it was, wow, what I'm doing is impacting. And so sometimes we feel like we're alone as we go into leadership. And having that feedback loop closed is important because it allows us to remember, oh, yeah, I am living my purpose. That does matter. It's like a kiss from heaven, this little moment of, like, this is going the way it's supposed to. And I think it'd be cool to have that. If you're open to that. That'd be fun.

We would love that. And I'll just say, it is so inspiring. And it is obvious that the future is bright in PT when you listen and get to know these amazing students. I think it's also important just, again, to put our listening hats on, because a lot of these students, in understanding why they became into the profession and then, unfortunately, what they're met with, with the reality of what it means to be in this profession. And so having a better understanding about that to where we can sort of hopefully meet them halfway. And I know you had Tim Spooner on recently, who is one of my healthcare heroes. And so I would just. I know he talked a lot about this, about the difference between, you know, what we come out of PT school believing that we are going to do, and then what actually is the reality of when we actually start. Start practice. Right. And so I guess understanding where students are coming from, what new grads are really thinking and looking for in their first job, I think is going to be. Could be really interesting. Absolutely.

Because there's a big discussion with that. I was having that discussion with a guy named Steve DePaula who, you know well from Empower Physical Therapy here, who loves you like we all do. It's just one of those things where, like, we were talking about how the industry is evolving and how it's challenging, but there's so much opportunity. Like Tim said, this is the best time to get into physical therapy. We're evolving in a way. The demand is endless. Our knowledge and talent is endless. In that we are the masters in this musculoskeletal $600 billion industry. And so if we could find a way, as you like to do, and I'm sure you'll probably solve it for us, we can then grow the industry and impact people in a way that we never thought was possible. But start with those clinicians that we're bringing in. So, yeah, let's definitely put that on the calendar. But, Heidi, I just want to officially thank you again for being on the show. You're an amazing human being, a great leader, and just love the care and heart that you put into everything you do. Thank you so much for being on the show.

Well, thank you, Will. And likewise back at you and the heart and soul that you put into it and all of your rock stars out there. So thanks for having me and please continue to.

Drive impact not only with what you're doing, but also throughout your big rockstar group.

Thank you so much. If people want to get ahold of you or if they want to learn more about. I think you mentioned the website, guys. I'll put that in the notes, but is there anything else that you'd like to leave as a call to action if people wanted to learn more about WebPT or you or anything else?

Yeah, no. You can reach out to me on LinkedIn if you have any further questions or. For sure. Wappt.com.

We actually have a little podcast as well and so, yes, just stay tuned. Lots of changes happening. So it's a really important time in our industry. And so, yeah, just so happy to be a part of it and again, paying it forward to this next generation of amazing rock stars who are going to have a lot of impact as well.

Okay. All right, Heidi, thanks so much for being on the show. I appreciate you.

Thank you. Bye.

Thank you so much for taking the time to listen to today's episode. As a thank you, I have a gift. In today's show notes, there's a link for you to join the Stress Free PT newsletter. This is a comedy newsletter for anyone who works in healthcare. And of course we're gonna have comedy bits. We're gonna have inspirational stories, Leadership bits. It's going to be a weekly newsletter just to lighten your week to help you do what you love with more passion. So click that link below and join that newsletter and we'll see you in our next episode.