How to Fire with Compassion: Leading Tough Conversations with Will Humphreys

So, rock stars, I'm going to start with a question for you to think about. When you have to let someone go, how much does that impact you from a stress perspective? Are you super stressed out? Like, is it the kind of experience that you have where you can't sleep the night before, it's just kind of gnawing away in the back of your mind until you do it? Or is it, like, super easy for you? Do you walk in there not thinking about it, have the discussion, walk away with that just like you're doing any other task? Well, if you're, like, the second person, then go ahead and turn off the episode, because that's not what this is going to be about. Guys, one of the single most stressful things I ever had to do was fire people. It was so hard for me to do it, and it was crazy because I oftentimes let horrible people stay in my company because I didn't know how to fire them well. And the few times I did early on, oh, man, it was just, like, the single most stressful thing ever. I would lose sleep for days and, like, push it off and look for any reason to keep them on and justify them staying on. They could have been actively slapping me in the face, and I'd be like, well, but did they really mean to hit me? I mean, maybe they've got. Maybe there's got a lot going on at home. Besides, if they leave, how am I going to treat all these patients? Like, all that crap would be in the way when I didn't know how to let people go. And then one day, I got trained by a guy named Dave Berg. He is this brilliant mentor that I had 10 years ago, and he told me later he kind of made it up on the spot to give me something to do, but I have been doing it ever since. I'm going to teach you how to fire people today. And so, yeah, like, look, as a leader, what's our number one job? I say it all the time on this podcast. It's to build more leaders. Well, we can't build more leaders if we have a bunch of jerks working for us. Now, look, I. I say that jokingly because one of the most powerful things that we can realize as a leader is that it's not like there's good and bad people on our team. There's good fits and bad fits. And one of the craziest realizations I had was that everyone, with the exception of some very few people, but most people, if not the majority of all human beings, are Amazing. They're wonderful human beings and that they just need to be in a different place than where I am. Like, there's. They're not aligned with what I'm doing. So when I started preparing to let people go, that was actually the first thing I would start doing, was getting into a mindset of developing empathy for people. And that was really hard when sometimes they were talking trash about me behind my back or actively causing problems in the company, or it was like the hundredth time I'd had to talk to them about something. So I would spend time. And this was trained to me. And I'm going to train you on developing empathy. So if there's someone on your team right now that you have to let go of or you're trying to correct or let's just say they're driving you crazy. Can you picture that person in your mind right now? Okay, so hold that person in your mind as we walk through this very brief but very powerful exercise and how to gain empathy for them. And then if it calls to you, and I'm telling you now, if it calls to you during this episode, that you're like, you know what? I've got to let them go. Honor it. Because your gut as a leader is never wrong. Leadership isn't about teaching you things you don't know. The best coaches I ever had, guys helped me peel away what was in my way, because in our core, we have everything we need. I know there's probably a lot of head trash you might have around. Oh, but I'm not that good, or I struggle with this or whatever. That's everybody. Theodore Roosevelt was the best. He said everyone can be an amazing leader. You just have to work at it. And believe me, I had to work very hard to have any success. But one of the key things I learned, and I said it before, is that we're only as great as we tolerate. So in a place where we are not having those hard discussions and we're not firing people, I'm going to challenge you. And don't take this personally. Even though it's gonna be personal, is that you're being selfish when we aren't firing those people. That's us being selfish because we are too afraid in my case, or we don't know how to let them go, or we're just like, how are we gonna let them go and then take on all that extra work? Well, that's selfish, right? An empathetic leader is bold and powerful and recognizes the best thing for the company is what's Best for the employees when it's in the right order. So as we're looking at those people, I want you to picture that person in your mind that's been driving you crazy. And if you don't have anyone, congratulations. This will be great for down the road because I had times where I had no one that was driving me crazy, and then that changed. So picture that person in your mind, and I want you to think about what it's like to be them. Guys, rock stars. Empathy isn't putting ourselves in someone else's shoes. It's putting ourselves in their. In their shoes as they are. So what's it think about their marriage? Are they married? Are they single? Do they have kids? What's it like to be in their status of marriage? Maybe they're having a hard time at home. Maybe they're struggling with kids. Maybe they were beat as a kid. Like, let your mind kind of just play with the scenario until you can feel connection to that person. When you feel the frustration part and you can see them as a human being, Even if the story that you're creating isn't completely true, that's okay. Because it's from that place of humanity that we draw our power. It's all the way in you. And the idea of what you're supposed to do with them is going to come to you only from that place of being that loving, powerful leader that you are. So what's it like to be them? What's it like to have their particular set of challenges? What does it feel like for them to get up in the day and have to go to work? And then what's it like to work for you? What are some of the good things that they probably enjoy and what are some of the hard things that they struggle with that, honestly, maybe a lot of other team members struggle with from this place? Keep going until you find that empathy. And now we're going to talk about how to actually have that discussion. So I'm going to teach you a trick taught to me by David Berg, kind of as a joke, but it works so well that I've been doing it ever since. I've literally fired dozens, maybe hundreds of people. I have currently almost. I have over 100 employees now through my different companies. I've had these discussions so often, and I'll tell you right now, for me, I'm always a little bit nervous. I definitely don't, like, lose sleep like I used to. But because of the practice, I've gotten to a point where I commit for their benefit and for my company's benefit and for my kids benefit to have those hard conversations. So in those conversations, only when I can find empathy for that person. Hey there Rockstars. Are you sick and tired of hiring expensive front office staff to spend months training them only to find out that they don't meet expectation, or worse, to have them quit on you, leave you in the lurches, only to repeat the cycle? Then welcome to Virtual Rockstar, the only service created by a private practice owner for private practice owners and leaders to help them build their dream teams. Let us hire your next virtual rock star for you overseas. These virtual assistants will blow your mind. 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What I'll do usually is pull on the side. You'll hear this a lot in my podcast. I like to take people out to lunch. So I like to take people away from the clinic so that they are in a different mindset and they see the humanity in me. Because that's a human thing to do. Take another human being out to lunch. We're breaking bread, we're connecting. I ask about the family. I ask about how things are going at work. Sometimes it comes up organically. Most of the time it doesn't, because we're usually in a dance of avoiding the pink elephant in the room. And so finally, what I do when I break the ice, I just say the following. Hey, John, let's just say, john, hey, John, can we just be adults? I want to just tell you something that's real for me. Is that okay, even if I say it imperfectly, that I just tell you what I'm feeling? He'll go, yeah. And I'll go, look, man, things just aren't working out with you and the company.

And like usually from there, we get a number of reactions. A lot of people, most people are immediately in defensive mode and will just say, oh, well, why is that? So we have to be prepared to talk about the core reasons why we don't think it's working. But what we don't want to do is start to get into an item by item debate because my C players love to debate me. They love to turn it upside down and make it all my fault. And I just avoid that. I have teenage boys. I've learned this avoidance trick very well. I just don't go into some of those discussions because it's a losing battle. So I will say, yeah, John. And then I describe their behavior. I don't say, john, you're lazy and you're apathetic. What I say is, you know, John, you come to our team meetings five minutes late. I know we've talked about it, that may not seem like a big deal, but you come late, you'll put your feet up on the chair, you'll take out your cell phone while we're talking about statistics, you'll sigh really loud and look, I want you to be happy, man. I just don't get the sense that you're happy here. That's a key thing to say because it shows and we have to mean it, that we're concerned about them. And so John will usually say something like, I had all sorts of reactions. I had one person yell and go, well, of course I'm not happy. You're the da, da, da, da. And just started laying into me. And you know what's funny, guys? Rock stars. He wasn't wrong. Like, half the things he mentioned I was pretty bad at. But there, it was just a sign of a bad fit. I needed someone different at that time. It wasn't his fault. So in that case, where he was kind of like, well, you're the da, da, da, I just go, exactly. So look, that's why I'm just having a man to man, in that case conversation. I just want to just be an adult about it and recognizing that you're not happy and I'm not happy. And I want you to be happy, John. I want you to be happy. I want you to love going to work every day. And I know that's not what you're experiencing here. Usually at that point things will shift because at the end of the day, they know they're not happy regardless. No one's happy at a place where they're either actively destroying it or they're just bad, a bad fit. They don't love coming to work or they're burning out. So this is usually where the energy shifts. I will tell you in the worst case scenarios, and people walk out on me in a few cases, but most people at this point are like, all Right. Well, what's next? They'll just go, fine, yeah, I'm unhappy here. What are we supposed to do about it? Talk about it. You're going to put me on a performance improvement plan. I had this was this year, I had a girl say, are you going to put me on a performance improvement plan? Is that what I'm doing? I just said, no. I just don't even know if you have a job anymore is what I said. That was more aggressive than I usually would take. This is what I usually say. It's called the three decisions. I love to get to this point because now that they're open and they can see and hear where I'm coming from, usually having that lunch helps. Then I lay out their options and I just go, hey, John, look, as far as I see it, there's three ways that this, this can be resolved. Okay. Can I share that with you? You know, sure. Most people, guys, they're very engaged. Even, even some C players, it really wakes them up to talk about their job being on the line. So the vast majority of people really listen to this. And so I'll just say, look, your first choice is that you and I just recognize it's not a fit and that that's okay. And today's right now, this is it. And so you can leave here. And if you're, if you're able to see that and have the courage to do that with me, here's what I'll give you. I'll give you a severance. And I almost always do severances, guys. That's a different podcast episode, but I almost always do a two to three week severance. And I have them sign a release every single time, no matter what the circumstances. Having that legal protection, I've learned after various lawsuits, I don't want you to think I'm getting sued every week, but I've been in business for 20 years. You know, I've had hundreds of employees in different companies. Like it's going to happen where people are going to, at minimum, file for unemployment, right? So I love having releases where they say they're leaving. And that's worth a cost to me. I like paying that price just to have the clarity of, of mitigating any risk, making it super clear and helping them out. So I'll say, if you're willing to do that, I'll give you a severance. And, you know, depending on the person, maybe it's a positive letter recommendation, which isn't common, but sometimes it's just clearly a bad Fit. And I think they're amazing people. So sometimes I'll even offer that. Then I'll say option number two. Option number two, John, is that we recognize it's not a fit and you resign and I'll let you control the story and you give me four weeks and you tell the team that you found that you're looking for something else that's not a good fit for you. And as long as we can be positive about it, like, and you can work hard for that month, like, for sure, I'll give you a month to look. That gives me a month to look. And then I'll give you a severance check at the end of that and, you know, maybe a letter of recommendation, depending on the situation, but that's. That's option number two. And then I say, and then there's the third option. But I don't even want to bring up the third option, John, because honestly, it's never worked. But it's something I'm willing to explore because I really care about your future, and I want you to do whatever it is that you think is best. And usually John at this point is paying close attention. As a matter of fact, I've never had anyone, not by this point, because they're getting their future handed to them in a way that feels like they have control, but not in a way to where they can go beyond our boundaries. And so John usually will say, yeah, well, what is it? I want to hear it. I'll go. The third option is that we try again. And the reason I hesitate on that, John, is that if we're going to try again, it's not. It's not enough for me that you're on time for the meeting. You've got to be the example of being early and bought in. You've got to be. Not off your cell phone, but taking notes and leading in discussions, like, I'm asking for something that I don't know that I can ask, which is a change of heart, John, I don't know. I can't tell you to do that. That's going to come from you. And if you're willing to make that change, I'm willing to make it another go. But, John, here's the downside. If it doesn't work, like, if two weeks in it doesn't work and these things aren't hitting that high of a standard, we're just gonna have to end things. And there's. It just has to end right away because I don't have any more space at that Point. So what is it that you would like to do? I've had every answer under the sun. So let me tell you how the majority of these things pan out. The vast majority choose option three. The vast majority, I would guess 80% choose option three and then they resign. The next week they get option three. They go look on indeed that night because they're just scared. They don't want to lose their job, they don't want to quit. They want to be fired. No, no, I'm going to try again. You can count on me. I'm like, are you sure? Absolutely. Okay, let's try again. Within five days I get a letter of resignation, which is so great. There's no unemployment, there's none of that stuff because they saw, they were able to see what I was able to show them, which is the truth. Now listen, have I ever had Anyone choose option 3 and then show up powerfully? No.

Not even once. So I would be open to it though. It just never happens. 80 something percent of the time this is a guess. People will go, just immediately say they're going to do number three and then they'll turn the resignation once they find other options, which there's always other options. So they're just trying to control the situation and their benefit. I had one person on option two go, oh, I'm taking option two. This is great. I've been looking for a way out. This is a. That's very fair. Thank you so much. I'm going to resign on Monday. Thank you for the severance and the four weeks worth of work. And she was awesome. She was also really, really good as an individual. It was just no longer fitting. Remember guys, the people that get us here aren't always the same people that get us there. Right? Like, do you know what I mean? The people who get us here, these wonderful A players. Sometimes we start losing connection as we grow because the company starts wanting different things and they start wanting different things. And that's a real hard discussion to have because these are powerful people who are wonderful but they oftentimes, if they don't know how to handle their lack of alignment, they'll start talking trash about things or start just causing problems within the company. And that's okay as long as we can address it quickly and mitigate it so that we don't lose the people who are going to get us to the next place. And then, you know, I've actually never had anyone do the first option ever. The first one of like just being done. No one wants that in the moment. Because that's the same as choosing to be fired, right? So that's how the discussion works. It's been tried and true. I should write a book about it. I think I'm going to, because at the end of the day, it has been so useful for someone like me who used to lose so much sleep about how to let people go. So when I. When do I have this discussion? I have this discussion after I've had multiple crucial conversations with people. And you know, when it's time, guys, when you're in a position where you've had that discussion a few times, you know, the corrective discussion, they're just constantly gnawing at you, and it's like. It's like you just kind of know that things aren't working the way that they should and you need a drastic shift. This is what you can do. This is what you can do. And I promise you that you are going to do great with this. But I'd love to hear about it in the comments. And as always, you're welcome to reach out to me. I've got all sorts of communication information out there online. You can reach out and let me know if you need help. But, guys, I just want you to remember this one thing at the end of this episode. This is what we're here. By the way, congratulations. If you're on your treadmill, you've made it. You get 10 gold stars. I'm so proud of you, by the way, for getting to this point. But this is the key thing, is that every degree of success that I've ever had is directly proportionate the amount of crucial or difficult conversations I've been willing to have. Let me say that again. Every ounce of success that I've realized is directly proportionate to the amount of crucial and difficult conversations that I was willing to have. And sure enough, and you've done this, I'm sure, where you finally let someone go, or a bad person, a bad fit person left the company and immediately your statistics go up and the energy improves, and even though you're busier, you're happier. So listen. No. A player can join a company when there's that negative space taking it over in your company, you have to cut it out. And if you ask the universe strongly enough and you get the right help from coaches, I promise you amazing people will just start showing up, which has happened to me time and time again. I've come to trust it. So trust yourself. Trust that what you're doing is going to make a positive difference. Not just in your life, but in their lives. I've had people thank me after being let go years later. I got so good at one point that someone the next day on Facebook left a positive review about the company. So just remember, you're doing them a favor and you're giving them the gift to find a home where they can be happy. And then you're giving yourself a gift to find someone else who can help you be happy. And then a team. The gift of finding what's missing in your company. So thank you so much for listening Rockstars. Never give up. Until next time, thank you for listening Rockstars. And if you're one of the many medical professionals and leaders who have had it dealing with with the drama of hiring and training people that you think are overpriced, then let's think about how virtual assistants can offload you to do what you love, which is changing people's lives. In the show notes, there's a link to jump on our calendar so that we can show you why LinkedIn shows that virtual assistants is the second fastest growing trend in healthcare next to artificial intelligence at no obligation. We'll see if this is a fit for you. I hope to talk to you soon.

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