How to Run a PT Practice Without Losing the Heart of Patient Care with Irene & Steven Gordon

Foreign.

Rockstars. 2025 is an exciting opportunity for growth. But for many of us, there's fear associated with decreasing reimbursements, difficulty in hiring. Today we're talking to Steve and Irene, two owners of a multi location practice in New Hampshire that have in my opinion, figured out many of the solutions to the problems that we face. And you're going to love today's episode because Steve and Irene, not only are they authentic and real, they don't talk about the solutions from a place of having mastered it. Quite the opposite. They talk about how they've been able to leverage their growth in a way to deal with these problems. As they continue to evolve, they're going to offer tons of insight experience to help you prepare for 2025, solve your problems and realize your goals. Enjoy the show.

All right, Steve and Irene. Oh man, I'm so excited for the world to get to know you guys. Let's kick it off. So you guys have a beautiful practice. 2025, we're filming this right before the end of the year. We're going to be launching this episode shortly after the beginning of the year. What do you guys see are the challenges and opportunities in 2025 as private practice owners? Sure.

The challenges is our resources. Resources. They continue to cut them back. Healthcare likes to pick on the physical therapist. Ever since we wanted autonomy, fact of the matter is we went from $15 co pays to 50. So good luck trying to deal with that where they know we need to continue them. We're holistic medicine. We have the front runners of holistic medicine and they hate it. And so we constantly are battling that.

The other is recruitment. There's just so many, there's a cap on what we can do in outpatient physical therapy and it just, you have to be willing to take a pay hit to come work for an outpatient physical therapist versus a hospital or inpatient physical therapy. Because of the regulations that they have, hospitals are getting three to five times more reimbursement than we are. So if you're. For everybody out there, if you're only $5,000 over, ask for more money. They got it.

They got the money every year.

They cut us down every time. There's. It doesn't matter. The regime doesn't matter anything. Look, the political stance is they're going to reduce something else and they always take it out of Medicare. They always take it out of that. So they have to cut the funding. And so we get, we, we get it and that's where it comes in. It's like penicillin still only costs $5, but physical therapy costs way more than that. And they just hit us hard.

You said something that's really powerful. I'm going to jump in because you said something that I want to punch, which is this idea that once we started asking for autonomy, you think there's a correlation between the autonomy and this suppression we're getting with decreased reimbursement? Is that right?

No. We wanted to be specialists. We are specialists. We are the musculoskeletal specialists. Orthopedics see joints. Physiatrists and neurospine. They all see their specialties. Nothing has to do with muscle, ligaments, or tendons other than physical therapists. So we sat there and said, we want it. About time you started respecting us for being the specialist. And they said, okay. And then you went from 15 to 50, and there you go, you're a specialist. Have fun. Try to get them to pay to come see you routinely. Because it works. It's holistic.

And what about them driving the physical therapist assistance down? Their reimbursement has gone down. And, like, what, are they not a licensed professional? You know, it's. They're taking down the education that they have gone through, and now, actually, that profession is almost becoming extinct. They're trying to drive it down and now creating kind of like bridge programs where they can become a dpt, going from not even getting a bachelor's to now already going into a DPT program. So it's kind of crazy. What, they don't want PT assistance anymore?

Well, it's a backhanded compliment is what it is.

It's a backhanded compliment. Tell me about that, Steve.

Yeah. So the PTA is not a pt. No questions asked there. We could all agree on that. I have met some. I'm not sure how you got there. I've met some that speak volumes. Okay? I've been in this 25 years. I was a PTA. PT. Like, I understand the difference. I get it. Instead of paying the PT more, they decided to pay the PTA less, which. So you insult two people in the same. Same swing. It's a backhanded compliment that, yes, you're better than the pta, so we're just going to pay you both less.

I think people see these things that are happening are like, well, that's just the world we're in. I think people who are listening to this need to understand that what's happening here is intentional. And, you know people. I mean, because we. We devalue ourselves in the rehab space, right? PTs, OTs, SLPs. We think of ourselves as like this service that gets referred out to. But the truth is there's probably no greater compliment, backhanded compliment, or indication of our value than the fact that we have these billion with a b billion dollar companies that are actively trying to make us less successful because they know that they know more than we do about how valuable we are. Right, guys, what do you think? I want to ask you two, what do you think would happen to healthcare if we were the doctors in our community that we were born to be? Like, what do you think if patients saw that, if patients could see us as like the musculoskeletal experts like you said, Steve, what do you guys think would happen to healthcare globally or at least in the United States?

Wow, that's a loaded question. Because I feel that.

They relied heavily on the pharmaceutical company. Like all of these professions have relied so much that they're not seeking the holistic way of thought, despite I feel like more people are thinking of, oh, holistic meaning nutrition. Like everybody's looking for that new healthier lifestyle or eating. But as far as treatment, they want surgery, they want pharmaceutical quick fix. But they don't always think of PT because they don't want to put sometimes the effort into what PT takes. But there's a lot.

Yeah, I love that. Steve, what do you think?

So I think we're the newborns.

I think we're the newborns. Newborns. We're the newborns.

So yes, we are the newest healthcare regime that there is. Look at when we started. Compared to medicine, compared to surgery, compared to all this, all that stuff's getting enhanced. We're being limited in our ability to enhance. We have class four lasers, we do dry needling adjustments, manipulations, diagnostic ultrasounds. We have a plethora of abilities at our hands that are perfectly within our scope of practice to work on, but all considered experimental right now because it's so new. Because we're so new. Just like soccer, European soccer is so much better than American soccer, only because.

It'S been around longer.

The roots are there. And this is the problem that we're really facing, is that we're regulated. This machine's not FDA approved. Food and Drug Administration has nothing to do with holistic medicine.

I'm like, I don't see the core. But so these are the things. We're limited in what we can do. So we're shown to be incompetent in our position. These things accelerate healing, get people back the neurochemical transmitters that are exchanged there that enhance healing powers, raise pH balances, all that stuff is at the fingertips, and yet we're being held back. And so we can't grow the profession to a level where we can get adequate pay to get adequate therapists and have a front desk and have billing modules and have all this stuff. Which is why I'm thankful that I found you. Oh, my God. We were in a rut. I'm not Will. I'm getting on my. I'm getting on my board. I'm getting off.

Here he comes, ladies and gentlemen. Here comes Steve.

Here I go. Here I go. We in the state of New Hampshire could not find help for our front office. 1% unemployment rate. That is not your top 1% of people. People, just not that. So we struggle, struggle, struggle, struggle. We even tried a different company to keep it inside and got taken advantage of. Then we met you and we found a great culture. Interviewed everybody over in the Philippines, by the way. That's where you want to go. Anybody who's listening to this, they love working for us. And I can't tell you I want to adopt them all, but they don't let me because they're too.

Amazing people.

But they fit into us because we are not a business. We are family. We try to help people. So we treat despite caps and all that stuff. This is beautiful saying out there, Will, I don't know if you ever heard of it, called dovetailing.

Oh, yeah, tell me about it.

Yeah. Dovetailing is when you see one patient and then you squeeze another patient in at the end of their session to start the next one and you kind of. It's so romantic.

You got a $50 copay and you're. Now you're sharing your time. I'm trying not to do that, which is why I have people that choose to come work for me and they drive an hour, an hour and 20 minutes a day to come work for me. Because it's one person, one on one care. Still. We've had to reduce the time to 40 minutes to make it advantageous. But we have not altered from that at all since the inception in 2004. I don't know what to say about it other than the frustration is, thank God we have found a place and a person to assist us in taking the ancillary jobs, the front desk jobs, the 30 seconds to a minute, because they need now to live. That's a $60,000 a year position we don't have. And it was $15 not 30 an hour for the math, for whatever.

Right. For the front desk positions. It's like nothing's changed other than the.

Dollar value they need to survive.

Well, I gotta tell you guys, so it's interesting because we were talking about the challenges and now we're talking about ways that you guys have pivoted in surviving and thriving in the face of all these challenges. I think it's great for the audience to really hear the fact that if they could understand Rockstars. As you're listening to this, I want you to really open your mind up that what you do professionally and is not just like this small thing in the middle of wherever you're treating or owning your business. It is the future of healthcare. Not because we are pts, the three of us, we are very aware of like what's coming and why we're getting suppressed because we could be revolutionizing healthcare globally. And what Steve is doing here. And you know, Steve and Irene, you guys are clients of mine and virtual Rockstar. And that was very kind of you to say this, but I said some things to you guys earlier that I think now will mean more than I'm saying it to the world. Out of all the people I've worked with, you guys are in the top 1% of the best clients I've ever had because you guys are strong, forward thinking leaders with the biggest hearts. Like when you talk about family, I had a privilege to be with Steve in New Hampshire as we were driving on that second day, Irene, while you were working. And I'll never forget that conversation in the car, I told him this, but we were talking about business and we were talking about growth and together the night before.

He's bringing his tissues, by the way.

Yeah, if you're not cry, he's, he's wiping his tears.

So when we were driving, we were talking about growth, all three of us, and we were like. And Steve's like, yeah, I'm just not worried about it. And da, da, da, da. And the next day he was like, you know, Will, all that matters to me. He told me his personal background. He's like, all that matters to me is the family that I'm building at work and at home. That's all that matters to me. He goes, as long as we're making steady progression towards the goals that we've set, who cares? I know it's going to be fine. And that's an experienced leader perspective because me, especially as a younger leader, it's like I'm not happy until I'm there wherever There is.

Hey Rockstars. Are you having a challenging time recruiting, retaining or training your people? Then, man, am I excited to tell you about the Rockstar Summit guys. This is my personal event that we are launching on March 1st and 2nd. It is going to be two full days of nothing but workshops on how to solve recruiting, training and retaining problems. It's very heavy on the recruiting side. We're going to show you where to find candidates that no one else is accessing so that you can get a leg up in the industry and grow the business that you deserve. So again, that's March 1st and 2nd. Please go to www.rockstar-summit.com to learn all about the details. I will be there in person teaching some of the classes. But we have experts from across the country coming as well. You do not want to miss it. I hope to see you there. Let's pivot this conversation from like, what's challenging about owning a practice? Coppola Physical therapy is one of those locations. I got to meet all of your team members across multiple locations. Truly amazing team. And I'm not just saying that, you know, for you guys, you guys handle change better than people I've ever, I honestly probably have ever met. You guys are so forward thinking in that regard. First of all, how important. This is a loaded question, but I want you to answer it anyway. How important is change in today's, in 2025? How important is it for PT owners to change? And then secondly, I would like to hear how do you guys approach change? Because again, change is what draws out the weaknesses of our companies. So how do you. First of all, let's start with like, how important is it for PT owners, OT owners, SLP owners as are listening to this, that they look at change and then can you give us some tips on how you change?

So the first thing that always comes to my head is that.

You have to work as a team. Like Steve and I are polar opposites. Yes, you are what I'm good at. He's good. Like he's good in the opposite. So we just kind of like hit the ground running with our individual strengths and then come together at, okay, well what do we do with this? You look at this part, I'll look at this part and then we kind of come together. So it's like we're always troubleshooting on the two ends of the spectrum and we always kind of found solutions in that manner. Like, okay, we have to handle it here. Just like with the virtual assistant, that was a big step for us. Huge step. We had patients and people between, even the pts as well as just patients coming in. Well, what are you doing to us? You know, this is like they taking it personally? Well, no, we've had to adapt. After Covid, there is no front desk person available.

To think that people these days are you set an interview, they don't even show up for your interview. Like that's the kind of, that's the kind of culture that is now like in this, I don't know, in this world. It's just, there's no work ethic. So we've had to adapt and just kind of be on our toes throughout this whole thing, you know, I don't know, it's like it's super hard.

Look, the Titanic didn't change and it sunk.

So guys, rockstars. What Steve said just to highlight is the Titanic didn't change course and it sunk. So Steve, you just hit that point of what Irene was making with a very visual analogy of how you view change.

We are constantly. We're not the only ones changing, Will. Every six months we get required changes from the insurance company. How do we adapt to that? So we have moved front desk systems, we have moved EMR systems. We have always tried to adapt to make the therapist's life easier. Listen, the reason why we're so successful is that we sit at a roundtable. We're the head of a round table. Every one of them think they have something in the game. And last time my grandpa checked, the crap rolled downhill. Why are we sitting on top of the throne? So that's we are a bottom up.

Treatment pathway. Every one of them that I have talked to, every one of my therapists that you have talked to, I feel like they could be very special in the industry and I'm very thankful to be a part of that. And so my job is to make sure that I don't have to treat their patients and my patients, I need to give them everything they need. I need to go down from that. So we don't have continuing education limitations. We don't have. We have power groups. So we get together and we learn deficits or new techniques or manual techniques or whatever on top of whatever you want to do. There is no limitation. Our full investment is to make this person their own person inside the clinic. Because autonomy is the best practice. Right? Best flattery is a referral from a friend. And my real estate agent tells me that, my dentist tells me that, everybody freaking tells me that. So I'm just going to assume that I'm doing it right?

Yeah.

I don't know. Well, maybe I'm making mistakes because I don't have any business background, but my bottom up approach. We don't have a lot of attrition. The family wants to stay. You've got to see that, you've got to feel that like we are. They are not employees. They, they do not wait for direction. They have a voice in the decision and then it's educated why they don't do it. But change, you have to be evolving. It's coming. And especially now as CO pays get closer to actual dollar amount of out of pocket, then we can do what we want. People starting to realize that if you just pay $10 more than your co pay that you can get the latest actual healthcare techniques. And we promote that. We send people overseas to get trained because it's holistic, it's not FDA regulated. Like why are we not learning these techniques?

You send your team overseas to get trained. That's amazing.

So a few of them, not all.

Hold on, hold on.

You're willing to chase whatever is needed to give the value?

Yes. And it depends on what they need. They want to get education on because some things aren't really appropriate here or there's a lot of manipulation stuff that's happening in England. So we've done that a lot.

So I could say this. Never be afraid to go. Always be ready to stop.

Never be afraid to go. Always be ready to stop. I love that.

Yeah, like you gotta try new things. Anything out there that you saw may be cool. We've done all of it based on the amount of cupping. Didn't really take off, but we thought there we were sitting around like you do with your wife. We had an end of year meeting.

And we were like, what do we do as physical therapists? And it was like compression. We rub somebody, we touch somebody, we push down on somebody, we do compression. Well, this was big when Lyme disease was around, right? By the way, it's ironic that Covid killed Lyme disease. Look at the statistics.

Wow.

Gone. But they told everybody to go outside. I'm being sarcastic.

But those people, fibromyalgia, Lyme disease, those things where they were sensitive to touch. So we thought about trying distraction and see how that goes.

Not a big hit, didn't go well. We failed. But we did find out that bursitis works really well with cupping and movement. And so we did okay. What did we learn from that? Mistakes aren't mistakes unless you're willing to learn from them. And so we have to take them. That's the problem, is that we're afraid to throw something against the wall. Without repercussion, something's gonna stick. We're not. Yeah, we're not afraid of that. You should know that about me by now.

No, I think your lack of fear is one of your reasons why. If we're going to like, summarize this for the people who are listening, I think that, you know, the number one thing that you've said was like, hey, change is coming, no matter what. The Titanic analogy, that's coming. So recognizing that it's inevitable. But then secondly, the fear that you're talking about now around change, that is the problem for most of us is that we're afraid. Of what? Of making a mistake. But I think what you're saying to me, and I want the rock stars to hear, is not making a decision is still a decision. As owners, we all get taken advantage of. Not everything we choose is good. Like you said, you throw things at walls. Some of them got to stick, and they do. But, man, I think there's a lot more intentionality behind it than kind of we were joking about. Because I've seen as you guys implemented this virtual front desk across multiple locations with people from the Philippines, when I have discussions with even advanced leaders, they're like terrified of the idea of what that could even mean. Whereas you guys looked at it and said, this is where we're going. This is the same thing as the self checkout line at a grocery store. Not everyone's wanting to jump in there, but it's coming. And why wouldn't we save the money, time and effort and get a better experience, but figure it out first? And so I think there's something about you guys being able to figure things out, like a confidence. What would you say about that? Because you guys are like, hey, this is where we're going. We don't understand how it's all gonna work, but we trust it's the right thing to do based on our.

Our.

Our gut that something needs to change. How. How do you guys handle those changes with your team? Because I think we're all willing to take that on. But I think the biggest fear of all is irritating our team members and having them quit.

So, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're. You're absolutely right. Some point of the inmates run the asylum.

Is the truth right now. Because we can't afford to lose anybody. So we don't have that problem.

Because of your culture and family.

Yeah, right. Yeah. But I owe a lot of that to my mentor. Let's just stop there for a second. Steve Coppola always, always was willing to see what the next step was in physical therapy. Where he fell short really was. As a business of physical therapy, what else could we be doing? And so we did have this. Well, we had, we've done. I told you, the laser, the ASMI unit, the cupping, the dry needling, the manipulations, all of that stuff is physical therapy based. The moment we tried to do it to our front desk and progress that into the future is when we started getting the kickback. It's amazing to me and it's really like, you should spend less than 30 seconds with your front desk. The patient interaction should be less than 30 seconds.

Why is that? Because a lot of people listening would disagree. A lot of people would say 30 seconds with your front desk. Wait a minute. Isn't that where a lot of culture gets created with the patient with the, hey, Julie, how was your weekend? Talk about that.

And it does because they're not spending the time with the patient. We are spending 40 minutes of our time and the patient's time together. That's it. There's not a patient I don't have on my schedule. I don't know how many. I know every one of their kids names. I know every. Like all of this stuff is happening and you're building that relationship and that bond. I have taken the chance, the risk to get the reward of my pts being that good. That that interaction at the front desk is not the primary thing that they're coming back for. I have built it up. So much so that at one point I had one therapist that had to kind of calm down because they were kind of insulted that the person missed the front desk over them.

Wow.

Yeah. Yeah, that was a pretty interesting conversation, actually. It was like the front desk is there to do what they need to do for paperwork, collect co pay, make, not socialize about what the grandkids are doing and stuff.

It's not the personal touch, it's paperwork. As long as they're pleasant and are heard, that's all that needs to happen at the front desk. Pleasant listening, completing paperwork. It's a stark like, what is personal about doing paperwork? Most people are, you know, oh, how many pages is this? Oh, what is like they don't get enough time with them to establish a personal connection. The connection happens with us during treatment.

I think the therapist, I think the therapist belittles their actual connection with the patient. I think they don't trust that enough. But most of the stuff we do is uncomfortable for the patient. You know, the worst thing the patient can do is lie on the table and let the therapist take care of them. Everybody knows. Everybody knows that that's what they need. What's the value? And so. But I think the therapist is too commercialized to understand their role in that person's life. And so they balk at it. As that same scenario of you can open it up and the patient may complain because it's new, but that gives you a pathway to explain, well, we want to get you back here faster. The reality is that we've done this.

This is our second go around with this. I've learned, and I do that often. So anybody wants to reach out steveoplopt.com it's not me, it's the other guy. Don't worry about it.

But in all seriousness like that, we had to convince some of our pts that their time with the patient was actually more valuable than they thought it was, because it was not. I gotta get the paperwork done. I gotta do this. I gotta find my time openers of putting you on the arm bike or putting you on the bike so I can do it. No, no. That's the minutes that you have to communicate and connect. And instead of being in the front desk and in the waiting room while they're waiting, that's been the big scenario that we've been able to get around. And then finding the personalities that know how to do this, it's been the big factor, Will, and that's where you've come in. That we fell way short before is that you have found a culture, a lifestyle, a eager employee that wants to and thrives in this environment where it's a brand new thing for the United States. And it did not go well. And so I get it. And we went through it, guys. We went through it with.

All of. Everything you're thinking right now about the front desk and the patients haven't. Because we're upfront with all our patients about why we've chosen to do this.

I think the confidence you guys bring is really important too, Steve, the idea that when you guys make a change, I love the way I've seen you introduce change to your team. It is very empathetic. But you and Irene are like, this is where we gotta go. There's a confidence. It's almost like you're not just confident in the decision, but you're confident in your team because you're not afraid of them quitting or leaving. You're like. Because you're like, yeah, let's talk about your concerns and complaints. I think oftentimes we make change. Kind of like, hey, we're doing this, and then we run away because we don't want to hear their complaints. We're afraid of handling the confrontation or we're afraid of them quitting because of it. But you guys bring it up like, hey, this is what it is.

That's the best right there. We're afraid of the confrontation and the employee leaving because we made the change. That right there. That right there is something we had to get past and just do it and trust that our relationship with our 37 employees does it. And we talk to them routinely. Like, we have outings. We do all of that small business stuff. We're too big to be small. We're too small to be big right now.

Right.

But I love it because I can approach every one of them and they can approach me candidly. No worry about language. They can be as volatile as they want with us. They know they're safe. Our employees know they're safe when they approach us and how they're feeling and all that stuff. And we listen to their hearts. We hire for their hearts. We listen to their hearts. And we don't just say we're going to do something. We tell them why we need to do it and what the expectations and outcomes are going to be.

And they fortunately and unfortunately know the situation we're all in. Like, that war, that upper ceiling war is not being held. Colleges are talking about it now. Like, when you come out, these are your decisions because you got $3,000 worth of student loans a month.

Well, it's amazing to me because you guys have this whole thing about, like, this, you know, you punched on this idea of changing the mindset around the front desk. Let's just stay on that for a second. Because what you guys said is so revolutionary for the audience, rock stars. What they're saying is, and I would agree completely, is that, you know, instead of looking at the front desk as a position that, like, helps us convince patients to come, we look at it as a facilitative role that helps our therapist grow deeper relationships. And if we're if and be efficient, there's efficiencies around time spent waiting, checking in, versus, like, having that part handled efficiently. So what you guys, I think using that kind of as analogy for the change that you guys have implemented, and that's what I got to see firsthand. So, rockstars, here's how it looked. And I literally took notes when I got home as the blueprint of how I'm going to help other larger companies transition, you know, a dozen or more virtual assistants into any role because it's not just front desk, but you guys went straight to patient facing. But what they did was they explained what they were doing to the group beforehand and, and then they invited me to come help support like the actual introduction of the Filipino team to the American team. And the empathy that Steve had and Irene had in that moment was so evident to me of like, hey, this is so. And so they like da da da da da. Their hobbies are da da da. And then Steve with his sense of humor would make jokes, everyone would laugh. And candidly different members of your American team had various opinions about this, but. But all of them trusted it because they were involved in that roundtable of like, this is what. You weren't checking in for their approval. You were coming in like, this is what needs to happen. What can we do to make this work? And if you've got concerns, let's hear em. So there was an open communication line and then I got to see how you took time out of both of your days to go clinic to clinic, which was multiple. And then people were like dialed in. Cause they could see the reality of it versus just having it sprung on them. And then there's this person on a computer. I think that was a masterclass of how to implement change. And in a way that honestly I think what you guys did this year is probably going to be mainstream in the next two years, three years. You guys are such forward thinking that you did that. As the people are listening to this, I think the biggest.

I just think it's so important to recognize that you. I think the most powerful thing that you guys said though is the fear of how we're like going to confront our employees leaving because we have to make a change. Because they oftentimes don't get it. Your team gets it. And they totally get the environment of physical therapy, but not everyone does. So when things are changed, it's like, well, they're doing it for the money.

What do you say to that concern? Have you ever gotten that concern? Like, are you doing this? How do you answer that? How do you guys answer that that has happened?

And how have we answered that? Let's see. It's a case by case scenario.

Yeah, yeah. There's not one solid answer for everybody.

Yeah. So it's not that. And there have been a few. Did I do it for the money? Yeah, there's yes, I'VE answered it honestly. Yes, I did it for the money because I want to keep you as an employee for the next five to 10 years. I'm like, I found a way to find somebody who really wants this job and cares about that position because I would have to give them six bucks more an hour. Let's be honest. I'm going to go from 15 to 25 for the same tasks or I have to change my model from every 40 minutes to dovetailing tis the season.

But I don't want to dovetail. You know, I don't want to do that stuff. I don't feel like that's an appropriate utilization of my PT skills and so.

Ignore the patient experience they don't feel like they're getting Right.

So thank you.

The care, because that's a big thing for us. That's the whole reason we're staying on this 40 minute model. We want the patients come back because they truly feel like we care and that we're there for them to treat them. So it's not that just the money. It's about the patient perception too. We're here to treat them and make them better.

But I'm not denying the fact that's the whole thing. When the employee comes to me and says you're doing it just for the money, the answer is yes. I need to find a way to give you a raise down the road so you stay happy with us long term. That is the aspect of it, is that I am trusting your amazing ability to communicate and treat patients and the skills that if you don't have, you can go get with us. Because we are, you know, we're versatile. We have so many different skill sets and stuff. I don't want to not plug in Coppola PT here, so I'm going to stop there. Probably should.

You're not. And I don't want you to hesitate on saying things that you've done because honestly, if. If I ever go back to treating, I'm hoping you'll hire me.

Well, I mean, I don't know.

We already have a room ready for you. You're part of our family now.

I'm not kidding. I love the idea of whoever's listening if they're looking for somewhere to work, especially if they're even considering going to your area because the idea of what you're talking about is so big. The way you just said that. Steve, I know you're still talking, but I want to just highlight Irene in your comments. You know, Irene talking about like the patient Impact of the decision being an important element and your acknowledgement of the financial gain that is made in it so that there's more financial gain for all. And I just think I wish schools would tell all of their students, no one gets into pt, OT or SLP ownership to get rich there. There are a handful of those people out there. They are not the people that are working with their. Their PTS hands on less than 20 locations. There is no way that they're rolling in it. They. They might. They might be less uncomfortable, which is why I think everyone should want to open their own practice one day. But it's not. It's not this, like, lavish thing by any means. And if they knew how many hours you guys worked to get paid, what you get paid, they wouldn't even want to do it. They would say, oh, really? You need to save money. You should save money. Because if, you know, if they really knew, they'd be like, oh, stop, Steve. You need that.

It's the worst thing that everybody has a decision with my money in my business. That's the thing. It's like. And for the pts, I'll listen to that. I will open it up and I will accept that change. I am like Andy Reid on the Kansas City Chiefs. You want to play called. Let's see what it does. You want to do blood flow restriction therapy? Let's see what it does. You don't have to leave me because of that. If it doesn't work, then it's on both of us, and then 50% of the issue is resolved. The financial aspect of it is that I can try these new, challenging things. I can do these things. I'm not so restricted because it is going to get restricted every time the revenue gets reduced. We have to do something. And I value my therapists so much. I think they'll all tell you that my ideals are their ideals. They. I mean, we are. We hire for the heart and we can teach everything else. And we continue to do that.

Hire for the heart.

So I was taught by. Again, I'll pump him one more time. Three strikes and he's out. But Steve Coppola saw something in me, and so we opened our own practice. And that took a lot of guts from Irene to allow me to do that. And so having those two staples in my life, I guess I've never been afraid to take a chance, leap. Afraid of heights, by the way. So I'm not leaping anywhere.

No. No ladders.

Even my dog's close to the ground, guys. Even my dog is close to the ground.

Your dog is close to the ground. Well, I. Guys, I got to tell you, I think what's so powerful. If I could just take a second. You know, I feel like we've talked about the 20, 25 challenges. We've talked about change. We talked about how to change. We talked so many valuable points in our conversation today that as we start to wrap things up, I just want to highlight there is something really special about the two of you. You guys are powerful together. I think you guys are yin and yang, but you're also united in your vision. Your team shows up for it. So if people wanted to come and work for you guys, if they wanted to even ask you about anything, like how to make change, how to bring on virtual assistants, like, whatever they have questions for, how can they get ahold of you guys?

Go through Will Humphreys.

No, my email is Ireneopolapt.com and he's S. Gordonopolapt.com so we're very, very good at that. Or even visit our website@coppolapt.com and you.

Can reach out to me. I'd be more than happy to do an introduction. Guys, thank you so much for your time and for being on the show.

That's it. Let's go.

Another we got coming back.

I think we're going to check in in a few months and do an update episode for sure.

25 years, right? She's like three. Three years ownership, you know, like. Like, where was all that soul searching when we were driving up here, Will?

Oh, it's coming on episode two. Don't worry about it.

All right.

All right, guys, thank you so much. Thank you for listening, rock stars. And if you're one of the many medical professionals and leaders who have had it dealing with the drama of hiring and training people that you think are overpriced, then let's think about how virtual assistants can offload you to do what you love, which is changing people's lives. In the show notes, there's a link to jump on our calendar so that we can show you where. Why LinkedIn shows that virtual assistants is the second fastest growing trend in healthcare next to artificial intelligence at no obligation. We'll see if this is a fit for you. I hope to talk to you soon.