Michael Silva on Dropping the Ego and Leading The Team

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Rockstars. I am so proud of this episode. Please listen to the entire thing. I'm going to give you some reasons why here in a second. Our guest is Michael Silva. He and I had just the most amazing conversation just now about leadership. This is applicable for anyone. Owners, leaders within private practices. I want you to listen to this episode from a place of, of understanding how we get in our own ways. That's kind of like one of the main themes. How do we get in our own way as leaders? Especially in the private practice space and healthcare companies. We're going to talk about like where those causes are and then how Michael as a coach has helped people overcome that. But there's two main concepts here. The first I'm going to tell you. The second I'm going to let you discover on your own. The first is helping us understand where we do create the most value as leaders and how that gets us out of our head into creating massive impact. Like the secret to massive impact is going to be revealed in how we serve our teams. Okay. And then it pulls back round to the ultimate secret of how we get out of our own way. And it is, this was not a pre planned episode. It's going to feel very circular, but you're also going to hear very authentic moments where we don't know the answers to our own questions. Enjoy the show. Please let me know if you have any questions afterwards in the comments. Yeah, Michael, I love this idea of owners who get in their own way and how that's a limitation for growth. Because I know as an owner for me, I felt like if I didn't show up and do the thing, like it would never have gotten done. So to hear from, I'm guessing a lot of our audience members who own private practices who are like, what do you mean get out of my own way? What do you mean by that? When you talk about getting out of helping you because you saw something that you're a master at, you help private practice owners get out of their own way. What does that mean to you?

Well, it's pretty literal to me. I had to, I had to learn that the hard way as well. It's just you don't realize how much you're actually holding back the business by trying to control everything is a good way of looking at it. I guess being able to delegate and trust in your team in order to give you the space to work on the business. You can't be the number one clinician, you can't be the marketing guy. You can't Be everything in the business, especially when it gets to a certain critical mass where it's just too much. So learning ways where we can pull it back, Work on the owner himself or herself, working on them as a leader, Freeing up the space to do what's most important. The vision, the leadership, the guidance, the mentorship. All those things that a lot of business owners want to get to, but they're too stuck in doing the little things. I mean, a lot of them still want to treat clinically, but they don't have to handle a lot of the administrative load. Unloading those things so they can just free up the space, I guess would be another way of putting it. Um, and losing this is one I had to do. I had to lose my ego. Like, I really have to get up.

It always comes back to mindset, doesn't it? It comes back to that mindset. So tell me about ego. How does. What do you mean, ego? Like, what does that mean to you?

Well, what does it mean to me? All right, so my wife's a coach, and she. She has a whole new definition. And she helped me get rid of my ego. But I would say I'm just going to draw on my own experience. So I built this private practice because I wanted to do things differently, wanted to do it my way, and I built it as the sole person. I was the. I was the everything at first. And the business became about Michael Silva, you know, and I had a niche in the room.

You were the brand.

I was the brand. And, you know, and I had these people lining up. I had a wait list to see me, see me, see me. It filled my ego. I'm like, whoa, everyone wants me. Like, it's me, me, me. But then I tried to grow a business, and I can't grow a business of me. I needed to step back, get out of my own way and realize, wait, I've got to. I've got to mentor my clinicians so they can do what I'm doing. I've got to build this brand as the team that we are. It's not about Michael Silva, about Michael Silva. You know, I was a young 20 something when this all started, and I was working with Olympic athletes. So I thought I was the man, you know, and then I realized I'm not. I was just in the right place at the right time, and I provided a lot of value to patients.

And by doing that and just realizing it's not about me anymore, it's about the mission of the business. It's about the team. It's about developing my team. It's about the individual goals of all my team members, never mind the clinical goals of all our patients. And as soon as I realized that and stepped back and trusted, because I had some phenomenal therapists and trusted them that they could do the job, and then kind of carry that into the conversations I had with my patients, I'm like, no, don't worry, you're in good hands. I remember going into rooms with like the Michael only patients that I had to get on other people's schedule, Right. And I would go in and I always made it a point. And I don't know if this was a good thing, but I always made it a point to go into the room where they were seeing one of my clinicians and like, say, hello, you're in good hands. Compliment the pt, let them know I would always make the same joke. You finally got a real PT to work on you, so you're gonna get better much faster than when you're working with me. Like, just build the trust in them. And my staff really liked that because they. I was boosting their. Their confidence and I helped their patient PT relationship just by taking two minutes to go in there, say hello, give them a compliment, and then I was be able. I was able to walk away. And those people got better and I didn't have to touch them or do anything because.

What's that?

But you had to let go of that ego first.

I had to. And it was hard. And I remember walking into my clinic, one of the when it really started to grow, and I'm seeing patients that I did not evaluate in my offices, using my equipment, being treated by my team, like, who's that? And at first it was a little off putting, but it was. I loved it.

It's weird, isn't it, when you're used to be the show. I remember those days, Michael, of like everyone I knew, everyone's backstory. They all loved me, all those things. Yeah. And then later on, like, no one in the gym floor even knew who I was. I was just. They would look at you kind of like the stranger that you are to your own business. And it was off putting and beautiful. I love that you describe it like that.

It was awesome. At first it was off putting and I'm like, almost a little bit sad. And then when I would walk in to any of the offices and just see these people who I've never met, who had no clue who I am, having a great time, you know, enjoying the benefits of the therapy that we're providing for them, meeting their goals. It was awesome. And then if I get introduced to them, oh, here's Michael. Here's the owner. And they would. They would come to me and give me the compliments of the team and how great this office is and this team or this person. Like, what better? Like, can you ask for anything more as a business owner?

No, man. It's such a cool thing, I think. I think when you tell that story, obviously anyone who's gone through that journey, which is a small percentage of. Of private practice owners, they relate to it so much because the ego is that first layer. It has to be. I remember what it was like when I didn't get my cookies. You know, patients bring in desserts, and it's just kind of like when I didn't. Like, no one was even bringing me anything. I remember going through a small depression because I was leaving on that. Yeah, the cookies. The cookies. There was so much more than sugar and dough. Like, it was, like, validation that I was worth something.

Right.

And it's so interesting because in, you know, the ego needs to be stroked when we don't know our value as individuals. Right. Like, I think when, you know. Well, I mean, this has just been what you and I have journeyed together is. Is like, you know, we can find our confidence in our impact and don't need somebody else to validate it. That's when we can be free mentally and operationally to start making a bigger difference across the globe without the same credit. So.

Right, right, right.

Yeah. So how do you help. How do you help people, as a coach, overcome that. That ego? I don't even know how you'd begin to do that.

Yeah, I mean, it's different with everyone depending on the person. And I typically see the ego more of an issue in the males out there, the young males as fighter pilots. I don't know. That's just my experience.

I think the big thing is just letting them know that if you want to build a business, you have to trust. And if you don't have trust and it comes down to you, your mentorship, and your training, then something's lacking. You know, if you're hiring the right people, which is where it all starts. Right. So, as you know, recruiting, you got to hire the right person. If you hire the right person, you mentor the right way, you train them, you empower them. You have to have trust. If not, I think it's our responsibility as the owners. Like, what did I do wrong to not feel that I can trust this employee? Did I hire the wrong person for the wrong job, is the wrong butt in the seat, is the wrong person in the clinic. So I think starting there and just letting them know that there's no more me, me, me, me in the business. You're growing the business. You're growing a team. Everything's got to be about we, about the team and trying to get them to step back. And again, it's hard to say no. Why don't we have one of your lead clinicians do this marketing event at the local CrossFit gym? You don't need to be there. Let's feature someone else besides yourself. Because what happens is you're the face. People want to come see you, they want to get in your schedule, and now they get disappointed because. What do you mean he's not taking patients? He just came over to talk to us about injuries and he said I needed PT now he's not going to do pt. Well, there's all these different scenarios, but I think that's where I would start is just learning, making sure they have the right people in the right seats, doing the right job. They have a great mentorship and training program. There's.

You know, the follow up, making sure that whatever goals we're setting for the employees, they're being hit, they're getting what they need to be the best, most valuable part of the team and then allowing them to step back and just watch it, watch it happen.

Wow. How you customize that per person and you build that. But there's certain steps that sound the same. Right. Like when you say that they step back and watch it happen. It's like they have to experience this new world called you matter. But we matter matters more. Right? Like we, not me kind of thing.

Right, Right. Yeah. And it's different. Like I don't have, I don't have like the Mike Silver five step process to do that. Because I think the way I do things is I just need to connect with someone and see where, you know, where they're struggling as a human and as a business owner and as a leader to see where they need the most. And sometimes I get to reach for help outside of me. May I know where my skill set lies in. But if I got to refer to if someone's really battling like confidence issues or there's some sort of mental block or an anxiety that I can't, you know, coach someone through, then I've got referrals that I can send people out to. And I, you know, I needed that help with my journey along the way I didn't realize how anxious I was until someone told me, yeah, man, it's kind of funny.

I, you know, I have to say, you know, I, I don't, I don't think there is a five step process. Many of the people I've talked to who are master coaches that worked on me over the decades, the best ones, didn't have a five step process like it was because everything, when it comes to mindset, mindset is one of the biggest, is the biggest, I'll just say it, in my opinion is the biggest mastery needed for leadership. You know, to improve in leadership is our mindset. So to have someone customize from experience is the best way for me. Like when I've worked with someone as a coach who's been where I've been and has gone where I want to go, then they can come and step in to see the world through my eyes and go, oh, it's all ego. But your ego is coming from a place of insecurity around blank. And then having someone kind of walk me through that. This is a true story. So my first step into coaching ever, Michael, I was working with this guy named David Berg who wasn't a coach, he was a CEO and still is CEO of Arrowhead Health Company here in Arizona. It's now a multi location hospital. So he's not a physical therapist, he's a private, he was a private practice owner that turned big time. And he was a chiropractor by trade. And the first phone call I had with him because I was joining his little coaching group through an organization called Entrepreneurs Organization and he wasn't charging anyone, he was doing this for free. So he's mentored literally hundreds of people including friends of mine that have nine figure businesses. We all go, we all, we call ourselves not disciples, but like we're all, we've all been taught in the ways of David Berg. And so I'll never forget, first call, five seconds in, he's like, oh, so you're a physical therapist dude, I'm a chiropractor. And he goes, are you still treating? And I said yeah. And he goes, well you're going to get over that because you're going to realize that doesn't matter. And he intentionally bull baits like that to create these emotional responses.

And what was your emotional response?

So what I told him because I'm a people pleaser. I was like, okay. Inside I was like, who the heck do you think you are? Like, I was so pissed. But I'm unfortunately my character Back then was to not show those feelings as much as I do now. Yeah. So I just kind of like, whatever. And now I know what he's talking about. He was, he was pushing it hard to prove a point. Not to say that treating didn't matter, but so that I could shift my mindset. Yeah. So I don't know. Everyone's different. Like, I wouldn't. When I used to coach, I would never. That's not, that's not my style per se. But it was very effective.

Yeah, same here. And I think with some of the coaches and courses I've taken over the years, like, okay, what's your unique five step plan? Let's come up with a name for it. Let's do this. I'm like, what? So I can print up an infograph with my five step process? What does that really mean? So I tried that at the beginning and I have this great ebook that I came up with with the five pillars of business development. And I sent that out to everyone that had an email for. And it didn't do much. So I think it goes back to this too. So, you know, I've tried. When I started consulting, which is a totally new world for me, building a PT practice and trying to gain consultants from all over the country is a totally different. I mean, clients from all over the country is totally different. And I tried Facebook ads, I've tried my email list. I had the free gifts of this PDF, this eBook. Nothing was really working. You know where I made most of my clients is the people I met face to face.

Yeah.

Like when I saw you in D.C. at the PPS conference.

Right, totally.

I met five, six young practice owners. Three are clients now.

No way. Yeah, yeah.

Word of mouth. Say it again.

I think relationships is where it's at with coaching because it's, it's such an intimate relationship. So you got three of those and then everything else is word of mouth.

Word of mouth. And you know, and it's funny you mentioned relationships. I put in a proposal for. I don't know if it was one of the local APT, APTA chapters or for PPs for next year, but it's basically on relationships and how to. How to build a thriving practice through relationships with your staff, with your referral sources and with your clients.

Wow.

You know, I mean, think about it. If you can just foster those three relationships, is there anything your business cannot do?

Totally. Yeah. It's amazing to think about what. And what's interesting for my journey is that as I learned how to step out of Trading and into leadership was how. That's when my world pivoted internally at home because I became more of this, like leader across all of the domains of my life because it was about learning how to empower others, which was so important to me. And I'm so grateful for that painful lesson because of great coaches like you. It helped upgrade the experience my kids had as a father and my wife is, you know, for me as a husband. So, yeah, it's, it's such an important lesson. It has so much little to do with business. Even though that was the most successful thing, probably we could say that would grow our business is us stepping into leadership. But it's so much more important than that.

Right. And I agree with you 100%. And being a father and you know, the leader of the household.

Yeah.

Even though my wife is definitely the leader of my household.

My wife is the CEO of the house.

Yes, confidently. And she should be. She's, she's, she earned that title very, very well. She. What was my point there? Yeah, it's just, it's just all connected. Like if, yeah, if I'm, if I'm improving my confidence as a leader at work, I come home and I'm just a more fun dad. I'm a more confident dad, I'm a more confident husband and vice versa. I'm having a, if I'm killing it as the dad and the husband at home, I come into work more confident. Like, you can't, I don't know about you and I don't know if this is, this is my, my take on life. Like, you can't compartmentalize who you are in my, you can turn on work mode, but I'm who I am at work, I'm who I am at home. You know, I'm still a 15 year old kid with potty humor. And you spend enough time with me, you'll hear that. But yet I've got values and principles that I live by and that I. And you know, hopefully those trickle down into the people I worked with as clients now and in my team and hopefully some of that's trickling down into my kids. You know, I'm mentoring my kids and they're, they're young adults now and I think I did an okay job because they're two of the finest human beings I've ever met.

So that's all that matters. I mean, it's so funny because we as men in particular, you know, some women too, but more so on the men, you know, they studied and found that Our self worth is tied directly to our business. That being the case, I think any business owner ties some of their self worth to their business initially at least. And I think that's just such an important thing to remember is that this is the rubber ball that can bounce that glass ball at home with the kids and the family. If we have that, that's the ball that we can't drop. And that leader that we become at work becomes the leader at home. So when we talk about, like, getting out of our own way.

What. Let's go into more of the specifics. The first thing we talked about was ego and mindset. So now that we've kind of addressed that out of like, how you help people get out of their own way, what would you say are, like the main mistakes that people make? Like, what are the main things that they're doing to get in their own way outside of the mindset?

Well, we're gonna go back to the conversation you had with your first coach. Are you still treating? No.

But they have to realize that where do you. Where. Where is the most value you can bring to your business? And typically it's not continuing to treat patients.

I'm glad you started with that, by the way, because, like, I think that is the majority of people's time being spent when they're getting in their own way is treating their own patients.

It is. And I hear the same thing all the time, but I still love treating. I'm like, I get that, but if you want to run a business, you can't be a full time clinician and run a business at the same time successfully. Like, something has to give and that's about getting out of your own way. So having that conversation of giving them, like, okay. Seeing the value that they bring to the business and to their team and showing them sometimes they don't even realize the value they have. And a lot of them don't have that confidence or they have that ego because they're incompetent. And, you know.

Right. They're stuck in the devil they know because they're scared of what they don't think they're capable of outside of that.

Right, right. And you know, I was that way. Like, I remember running my first team meeting. I'm like, who the hell am I to like, sit there and tell these people, like, you're doing great or don't do this, do that. Like, I didn't run a great meeting at first because it was all about what you're doing wrong and what we have to do. Better. Right. But I mean, we have a hard time with that as humans. I think. I think if you don't, that's a gift. Because I teeter on even to this day. Okay. Do I really know the value I'm bringing?

Yeah.

And as in, you know, my wife will tell you I need a lot of validation. Is that still because I have the sense of incompetence of what I'm doing? Because this is a huge career shift.

Oh, yeah.

I'm going to go on a separate tangent, so I want to ask you this question.

Yeah, please.

When you, when you sold your business, your first one, did you have a plan right after or did you just sell and figure out what you're going to do?

No plan started. Kind of just trying to figure it out.

Right. Did you, did you have like a little depression or a little lull and. Or were you just like partying right off the bat?

No, no, I, I went through. I was surprised that there was a brief period of elation after I sold. Like a brief. Like we. I took my wife and kids, we moved to Europe for six months. But like literally two months. Yeah, that was. I really recommend that when we make these life transitions to highly celebrate them. Because entrepreneurs and leaders who are entrepreneurs, their default is like the next. To solve the next problem. And they never give themselves space to like reward themselves. And that has been proven. They've done studies to show that that's what changes how we operate, to be more successful. So even with a six month hiatus that I was willing to go to spend the money on, dude, two months in, the anxiety hit hard. What am I going to do? I have all this money in the bank, but I'm watching it go down every month, especially when I wasn't working, and I'm like, okay, what am I going to do? That's a problem to solve. The entrepreneur kicked in. And so no, it was, it wasn't depression as much as anxiety for me. Like straight up stress.

Yeah. I mean, I think I had probably both because. Oh yeah, we're talking about our identity. Like, I was tied to my business.

Oh.

Michael Silva, the owner of Foundation Performance, the running pt. Like, this is who I was and all of a sudden gone, gone. You know, And I was like, whoa. You know, I stayed in with the business that bought mine for a while and then I had some. Had some life things I had to deal with. So I took some time off as well. And I was like, who am I? Like, what am I doing? I reshingled my house just to Spend some alone time. I didn't move to Europe for six months, but we did buy a place in Europe because we always wanted to. So that's what I did.

Where'd you go? Where'd you buy?

We have a place in Southern Portugal in the.

Oh, man, that's such a good place. Good for you.

Yeah. So, I mean, I did that. That was great. But then I was like, who am I? What am I doing? And I was looking for jobs outside of healthcare consulting. I wasn't even. I'm like, no, I'm done with health care. I was going to open a coffee shop. Nothing. And then nothing was panning out. I was going to buy this building. I was going to open a coffee shop here. I actually entertained, which is the kiss of death. Opening a restaurant with someone.

Oh, never. Yeah, exactly. I grew up in a restaurant family where you own restaurants. So I know that world. It is the worst.

I don't know the world. What was I thinking? I don't know. But I didn't. Thank God. Even my wife was like, you really want to do what? With who?

Why? Spaghetti. Just kidding. I don't know what your restaurant.

And then she was the one who really pushed me towards you. She's like, listen, she's like, you ran a successful business. You know how to do that. She's like, why not just help other people do that? Like, you don't have to do it, but teach other people and coach them and mentor them. I'm like, fine, I'll do it. And, like, begrudgingly. Yeah, she's always right. So I did it and it worked out. And again, my. The first client I have is now a business partner of mine. I have all these other clients, and I believe they're finding value. They're enjoying the guidance I'm giving and the coaching I'm giving. I'm having a blast doing it. I really like it. And I'm not tied to a brick and mortar building in a schedule like I was as the previous business owner, so there's some freedom to it. But it was a journey, man, to get here.

And you're giving freedom to your partner that, you know, it's interesting because freedom is the main theme of this podcast, so it's interesting to see that cycle. And I don't know about you, but, like, for me, when I stepped into being. Owning a medical billing company, which was the first thing I started after selling my practice, I then stepped into coaching, I went through a total arc. Just like being a PT owner all over again. I was super insecure. I worked crazy hours. I started getting success. I started. It wasn't patient care, but it was like certain team member relationships I started to hold in the same way. And then coaching was the same thing for me, where I didn't think, who's going to hire me for a coach? And then before you knew it, I have more coaching clients than I had space on my calendar. So I started raising my prices and you just kind of start going through the same cycle of like, okay, that's who I am. I'm a coach or I'm a medical billing owner. And then like, I had to do the same thing all over again. I had to step out of that mindset. So it's like, this isn't just like, hey, if you're, if you're listening to this and you're a healthcare private practice owner or leader, it's not about like getting away from patient care. That's not what we're saying. It's about changing the mindset for continual progression. And it's. And it looks similar at every step. It's scary, it's insecure. But then you can. You gain some competence. And right behind some competence comes a whole lot of confidence. And then we get comfortable in that confidence which prevents us from making more progress. Right. So if we're not careful.

Right, right. It's a, it's a similar song that has been sung over and over and over again by entrepreneurs everywhere. And yeah. And I guarantee even people outside of healthcare have the same. Same story it is.

You know, I've been in a business networking group for almost 20 years. None of them are healthcare owners. They're all business owners outside of healthcare. It's the same thing. If you're the cookie maker getting. It's harder in healthcare, in my opinion, because we define ourselves so cleanly by being a healthcare. Like, I am a physical therapist. No one says I am a cookie maker. It's like, I don't know why I'm obsessed with cookies. Maybe I've got low blood sugar. But this whole thing about like, you know what I'm saying? Like, this whole thing about like, we as healthcare providers, we identify with our service so much more than someone who owns a product. But we still create identity within our businesses that are limiting. If we are truly being honest, our ego is getting stroked at some level. And so we can only grow to the degree of our ego, you know?

Right, right. That's deep.

Oh, thanks. Well, you're bringing it out of me, coach. Like, you're clearly Getting me there. So, no, I love this idea. That's. I loved how I asked what's the main thing that people get in their way? It's. It's treating, which goes back a little bit to mindset. Do you find with your clients that, like, sometimes they just don't even know what to even do? Because I wonder if that limits them a little bit.

They do. And they hide behind the busy schedule.

So they're super busy and burned out. But they're also like, the reason I'm doing this because I don't know what I'd do if I wasn't doing this right.

At least I'm bringing in revenue, I'm doing something positive, right. Treating patients. And they have no idea. Like you, you give them a little time. If you don't. If they don't have the guidance and a plan set, then they're not going to know what to do.

What should someone be doing? Let's say, let's take two people. Let's take. Because there's two types of people listening to the show. There's business owners and then there's leaders who don't own the business. So what should business owners be doing besides treating if they own a practice?

Oh, God. Step out of the business. Work on it. I know it's a cliche term, like, no.

But no, like, and if you don't know even where your business is at, like, do. Do a whole business assessment. And this is how I start with a lot of my clients. So we look at, like, financial health of a business. We look at the processes of the business. We look at the team of the business. We look at everything. Step back and look at everything. What's working, you know, and honestly look at it. Because I can make everything look good in my eyes if I didn't want to do any improvements or make any changes. Right. Oh, she's fine. She's just. She'll get it. Like, yeah, she's the right person in that seat. We're okay, we'll just leave her there, you know? But taking an honest look at the business, seeing where you need to improve, if you don't know how to get help doing it, but work on it. Because once I started stepping away from the business and looking at it almost from a new lens outside, I didn't realize how many improvements I need to make because we. I was just patient, patient, patient. And I was. I was that guy who stayed really busy and brought in a lot of revenue because I didn't know what the hell to do. Until I hired my first coach and she was like, slow down there, tough guy. Like, bring it back, let's go. And it was that moment where I was like, oh, yeah, I can't just do this. So I forgot what the original question was.

But no, you were answering it the whole time you're talking. Because we're talking about what should people be working on their business? And what I heard you say was that it kind of depends on the person. But all of it is that cliche of working on the business. But there's departments of finance, marketing, leadership. What are the key things? Like if you could say two or three super high level things that every owner should keep their attention on outside of treating, where do you, where would you say that they should be focused on?

I'm going to go back to what we talked about before. The first, first thing is how are the relationships with your team members?

Oh, I see. Primary role is the team builder. Love that. That's a good one.

Check in. Like, have you ever sat down and one on one with one of your team members and just taking them to lunch or breakfast or dinner or go get a beer. Do you know what's going on in their life? Are they happy? Are they just telling you they're happy because they don't want to lose their job? Really? And then you've got to set this environment that people feel open and honest and vulnerable enough that they're going to be able to be honest and have that be accepted. But I think start there. Like, who, who's. I mean, what are we without our team? Yeah, right.

I think that's what we forget when we make patients. Our priority is that we forget about those individual. It's not that we forget about them. But I used to, I used to not hate my team, but I hated, I hated the distraction of having to manage those relationships because I was using them as a tool to like just grow my business because I didn't know how to treat more patients without them. But when, like for me a big mindset shift was, oh, they're my primary focus, like the more I can develop the connections. And by the way, that was so much more rewarding than patient care.

It was, right.

It took more time. But like, but like at the same time, like in the end, when I sold my company, I never miss my patient care. I miss my core team. Every. It's been six years since I sold. I miss them every day. And I talk to other people who've sold like you, and all we do is talk about those Amazing men and women who just made us, who thought more of us than we deserved and loved us and worked their butts off and we did all that we could to honor them. Like, that was the greatest reward of owning that company.

I think that if you don't do that, don't do anything else, you have to start there. And most people need some help with that connection, but I am. I learned the hard way by not putting time into certain employees that needed more of me as a leader. And they. And a few of them have left, and I. I had to learn the hard way that I need as the lead. I need to be there for them.

How profound that you just said that. And I think you are right. I've never heard that so cleanly, Michael, that, like, as a business owner, our first focus should be on that team more than anything else. And you said that, like, hey, with. Regardless of anything else, you could have your attention on that team is number one. I agree totally.

Right. We can just drop the mic there.

We should. We should end the episode. The team thing is so important to be developing that. And it's. It turns into this really fun journey, but at first it's intentionally hard because no one's good at it naturally. At least not in my world. And that's where I think, for me, by the way, Michael, having a coach was really big for that. Yeah, we're talking about human relationships. So having somebody who's been in those circumstances, they don't know the people directly, but we. You know how this is after you in a business long enough, you see the same eyes and other people. I think I just quoted Star Wars.

They're in that temple. Ray is in there. And this woman goes, when you spin around as long as I have, you see the same eyes and other people. It's true, though. You see these people coming into your business, you're like, okay, here we go.

Yeah.

Or oh, yes, here we go. And so you can help coach people through those elemental, you know, discussions. Because the. Yeah, the human relationship part. I always tell people this too. Michael. Retaining is recruiting insurance. Oh, yeah. So retaining. Learning how to retain, you know, those people by having those relationships. You don't have to recruit when you have these amazing people working for you. So what are some of the key things you mentioned? A few of them loosely. But where are some of the key things you tell your coaches about, like, how to, like, focus on their team?

Well, one is I encourage them all to spend some alone time with each individual employee you mentioned, like, take them.

Out to lunch and stuff. Why is that important?

Get out of the office. Because when you're in the office, they see you as the boss. They're the employee. Take them out, have a beer, drink if that's what you like, or just go to breakfast, get out. I like doing it. I did those things and I encourage them to do it outside. Get away from the work environment. Even if it's on a weekend after work. Block their schedule for a couple hours in the middle of the day. Just get away. And just. And the first thing what I tell them is don't sit there and talk about, are you happy in your job role? Like, can I be a better boss? Like, no. Like, how are your kids doing? You know, oh, just had a graduation. How was that? How's your husband? What does your husband do? Like, get to know them as a person, really connect with them, like number one. So that's what. That would be my number one right there.

Yeah. I don't think people feel like they have enough time to do that. Some people would even argue, Michael, that making it too personal could be bad. Like, is there a point in those relationships where you feel like the personalization maybe goes too far? Or is. Is it like the closer the better for you?

No, I'm sure you can't get too far. You know, then you can get way too far and end up in weird relationships with.

Inappropriate relationships, which I've never seen happen. Thank. Thank goodness. But yeah, no. So I think, yeah, anything can be taken too far. I think if you're generally leading with your heart and just trying to connect with someone, I don't think anything negative will come of it. I say this and then I'll tell you a quick story where my business lawyer, because I did get. A former employee of mine tried to sue me.

Oh my.

Yeah, that was fun. And my lawyer's like, oh, you're in business long enough, it's going to happen. It's probably going to happen again. But it was not legit. And we worked it all out. It was fine. It didn't affect me or the business and it was nothing I did.

Oh, sure, lawsuits are. I'm with the game of owning a business.

But then he says, this is why most small business owners are cold hearted pricks. Pardon my French.

Totally.

He's like, because I was hurt, I was hurt on an emotional level that this person actually thought that low of me that they wanted to sue me for something that wasn't legitimate. Like, I was crushed. And he kept saying, listen, we're making business decisions. You can't. You can't get emotionally involved. Like, you need to be cold. You need to have these borders. You need to have walls. So he was on the opposite side.

I think there's a middle way where, no, you can develop good relationships. You can have a connection with your team. I did. I liked it. I enjoyed it. I don't think I ever crossed the line. I think it helped me build trust and help them know that I've got their back. You know, going through Covid was a big example. Like, they knew, like, just getting through that whole ordeal and being able to keep people working. And I did a fundraiser to raise money, and I gave all that money to my team. Like, just. I had to let them go. Like, they were all not working. So, you know, I think because I had that solid relationship with them, they knew that I was. I'm doing my best for them. And it was. Without that trust, I don't think I would have gotten through Covid as successfully as I did.

Yeah, I think we can relate this as you're talking. The image that comes to mind is the relationship a medical provider has with their patients. The really good ones have a personal connection with boundaries, and the boundaries are more for just keeping things on a professional basis, because when we get too personal, we get too casual. So this idea of, like, being. Being personable.