The $8 Million Truth: Tim Spooner's Raw Journey to Freedom and the Future of PT

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Hey, rock stars, I got a riddle. What do you call a physical therapist who almost bankrupted his company and then turned it into a 600 employee powerhouse across two states? You call him Tim Spooner. In this episode, Tim is going to go back behind the curtain on his journey from treating full time across multiple clinics to leading Arizona's largest independent PT group and launching Solve Global. That's a tech powered game changer for our industry that's transforming corporate healthcare. We're going to talk about freedom, real freedom. Not the kind that you post on Instagram, but the kind that comes after asking for help, hitting rock bottom and then building something that lasts. And yeah, we're going to go into AI and artificial intelligence and VAs. Tim shares how predictive analysis are helping prevent injuries before they happen and why he still misses the party in the back of his clinic. This one's for everybody. Clinic owner, every private practice leader. So that you can have a bigger dent in healthcare without losing your soul. Let's dive in. It's almost like a trap, right? It's a trap. People get passionate about treating, but they choose to become an owner and then they stay in the business because they're treating and they just burn out. Tim, thank you so much for being on the show as a repeat guest. Your last episode did so great. In this new season that we're doing with AI and VAs and freedom, I was so grateful that you were willing to come back on the show.

Thank you, Will. It's a. It's a pleasure to be here. And I especially like the concept of. Of exploring what freedom should look like to a therapist. Yeah, I looked forward to having that discussion.

Me too. I just think you and I are super connected about the bright future of our industry which was their last episode. And yeah, freedom has to be in play because I would say that's probably why a lot of people aren't in our. In our profession that used to be or even considering maybe that's not why I should join the profession. But let's talk about you. Tell us about your businesses.

Sure. Well, first of all, I'm the CEO of Spooner Therapy. Spooner has been around for 35 years now and we have 27 locations in Arizona and two in Texas and we have roughly 600 plus employees and we have specialists of basically any type of specialist you can think of in. In therapy from hand to women's health to breast cancer to neuro impedes. So there's. And especially we emphasize sports and orthopedics. So there's not anything really that we can't take care of and we have a lot of experience amongst our 160+ therapists.

That's amazing. Are you the largest in Arizona, the privately held in Arizona?

I believe so. I'm not sure. I don't think there's anyone of our size left that hasn't been acquired by private equity and. Or a strategic.

Yeah, it's interesting because at least that's what I've been telling people.

I believe that's true. I know there's some up and comers that are now getting into 7 and 10 sites which is awesome. I mean as a proponent of the profession and a proponent of people who have worked with us and now own their own clinic and stuff, that to me that's great for the profession that we grow as independent practitioners. But we continue to collaborate which I think is really key. For instance, this week I was involved with a couple other therapists and we went down and met with a state senator if you notice that or if you recall that recently Utah passed a bill to promote physical therapists as primary care musculoskeletal providers. And we are looking to get a similar bill sponsored here in Arizona.

If freedom had a love language, it'd be delegation. So if you're tired of wearing all the hats, the CEO hat, the insurance hat, the why am I doing payroll at midnight hat, it's time to get help. Book a free free discovery call@virtualrockstar.com and let's show you how hiring a virtual assistant can finally free you up. We have paired hundreds of private practice owners with their ideal virtual rockstar assistants. Don't miss out on the second fastest growing trend in healthcare and in saving $20,000 per year of profit per hire. Remember, you deserve a business that gives more that it takes. Remember back in the day talking about collaboration with what would be considered, you know, competitors, you and Mike Baston, the great Mike Bassin, a good guy, he used to own foothills before he exited. And man, what a great collaboration that you guys had in helping the Arizona State Private practice section. So it's really cool to see how you've done that. But that's not your only company either. Tell us about your other company.

So I'm also the CEO of SALT Global, which is a tech enabled human maintenance organization. And what that means in, you know, in, in just simple speak, is that we work directly with employers to help them with their musculoskeletal care and take care of their people. We have a complete system that, that utilizes technology, including AI and predictable or predictive analytics to determine the risk and in a employee population and then go and intervene. So we're working upstream from what we would normally see in an outpatient clinic. And for, as a therapist, to me it's like the, the embodiment of why a lot of us get in is to prevent a lot of injuries, but catching them early and being able to help them is, is, is just super fun. And then the, what it does though, is give our practitioners who are doing it tremendous freedom because they are extremely autonomous, working with an employer and taking care of 1,000 people. And if you told me I'm going to take care of 1,000 people in an outpatient clinic today, they jump off.

A bridge.

I don't know how I would do that. But if I have technology that says, hey, of these thousand people, you should touch base with these 15 today and maybe, you know, may have some type of communication with these other 10. And so I can keep in contact, I can still use my hands on skills, but I can have a extremely popular, extremely positive interaction with an employee base for a company which helps the company, it helps that individual, that employee, have access to physical therapy services. And by doing that, we help them feel and move better. And ultimately it lowers healthcare costs because of the fact that 80% of musculoskeletal things should be taken care of by a conservative primary care provider. And that's what we do.

Yeah, rockstars. I really can't emphasize enough how big this concept is that Tim is developing and for multiple reasons. You know, the vision of the profession, being doctors in the community, that's what this is. It's a different, it's a completely different model because the pts here are the doctors in the communities over these companies. And there's so much to that because it's more profitable for the business owners and the pts can make more money and have more freedom. And we're doctors. And I mean like, think about how it affects the, the population, the industry and the individual therapists. It's, this is a game changing business that you have. And I get nothing for saying this, let's be clear because it sounds like I'm selling it already, but, but I'm just super passionate about anything that's pushing our profession forward. And in this case I just want to highlight Rockstars as well that Tim and I are having this conversation while he is at his cabin in the mountains. Not only like preserving life for his family, but also like you're seeing clients up there. Like you're, you have because of the way that you've created Spooner Physical Therapy, the core business you have, what did you do with your time and your profits? You're, you're helping more people and moving the profession forward. Not like you're laying on the beach 24 7.

And it's, we have, we have, we take care of firefighters across the Arizona landscape and we take care of two districts that are up here, the Pinetop and the Timber Mesa district up here. And as such I get to stop in, see them, talk with them, strategize on how we can help keep our first responders healthy and safe and what we call, you know, ready. You know, we want to help them from hire to retire and beyond. And when we, and when we think of that, it's, it's, we want to make sure that they are, they are ready and fit for fire. You know, are they fit for duty? And that is a huge, huge thing because they're being healthy is a, is a safety thing. And you know, if they have to run into a burning building, if they can't do something that could put not only themselves but others in jeopardy. And so it's, it's fun for us to take care of them and, and, and really hear what, what they need. And I, I'll just tell you that it broke my heart that, you know, I talked with one last week and he, and he said yeah, I just don't, you know, I don't like going to XYZ place because they treat me like a 75 year old.

A physical therapy place he's going to.

Yeah, yeah. And this is a 40, 40, 40 year old athlete, you know, that has to, has to do physical things. So we, you know, we have to make sure that we are meeting him and meeting the demands of his job where, where he's at.

Well, one thing that you mentioned. Thank you, Tim, for sharing all that. I think one thing that you mentioned that I'll dig into later is how AI plays into that because you mentioned that artificial intell leverage. So placeholder rock stars, as you're listening that later, we're going to hit on this AIVA debate that we're having right now. Tim, I think as people are listening to you, especially any private practice owners, they're probably feeling a little disconnected because they're like, wow, look what Tim's doing. I could never do that. Share with me. What, share with the audience what you're talking to me about one of those moments when you really were struggling in your business and how and why you were struggling and what you ended up doing about it to help you kind of get to where you are now.

Well, before we go there, if you don't mind, let me. You know, for those who are feeling like they want to do something in this space, I talk with therapists literally all over the country on a weekly basis. And what I ask them is, do you want to turn your relationships into revenue? And that's essentially what we do. So their relationships, they're taking care of their community, they're seeing patients. And undoubtedly some of them may be business owners. And there is not a business owner that I know of in the United States that is not being affected by health care costs. And you have, you have a solution for them. And so I help them understand how to have those conversations, but also how to implement, you know, a solution, a direct to employer solution such as SALT Global. And so it's fun for me to help somebody in Kansas City, to help somebody in Texas, to help somebody, you know, in Minnesota. You know, we're in multiple states now and it's what are we doing? Well, we get to do what we went to school to do, which is help people. But now I'm getting some freedom from the nickel and diming of the insurance world. And I'm having a direct conversation with an employer who values what I can provide. And it's not, it's not the same as putting a PT on site.

Right?

Because putting a PT on site without technology and without understanding the risk of where the risk is in that employee population, you're going to treat the loudest hangnail. And you know, and that's, that's that's not really helpful to the employer. You provided some access, but you didn't take care of. You left a lot of chips on the table. Is, is what I would say, very powerful stuff.

Thank you, Tim. I appreciate that. And actually, before we even get to that breaking point and how you pivoted into this freedom, I love that you said that because you highlight the real suppressive causes as to why many private practice owners, not just PTs, but healthcare providers in general, are struggling with their freedom. So from, from, from before we get to the whole, like, when did you pivot? Why did you choose this path and why do you keep choosing it? As you scale, many people like you mentioned, smaller than you tap out and sell. Why did you choose and why do you keep choosing? What's your purpose and passion here?

Yeah, you mentioned, you know, getting together with Mike Bastin and we formed the Arizona Rehab alliance. And we had, we had several private practice members in Arizona that were, that were part of that. And I learned a ton from that. And what I learned most was that we need to work and collaborate more as a profession versus working in isolation. And that the abundance of patience means that other practice owners aren't my competition. My competition is what limits my ability to get paid. And so as we're going through that, I kept noticing that my health care costs for my own company, I was in a fully insured program at that time, kept rising up, you know, at a 10 to 15% every annual rate. And I know therapists that it's risen as high as 30 to 40%. You know, I know annual jump. And at the same time, the same company that I was paying those premiums to was lowering my re. Lowering my reimbursement. So I noticed this huge spread and I said this seems raw. And so I took it upon myself over the last 10, 11 years to really educate myself on health care, on what the insurance industry looks like, and to dwell deep into that, to say, number one, how can I fix my own problem in my company?

Yes.

And then second, how can I play in that space? Because I feel like I have something valuable to provide the community, but I want to do it on a scale basis. You know, I want to be able to help more people. And that's what led me down the path of direct to employer and the self global solution.

Got it. So very passionate about helping that industry drives you forward. So let's now hear about a time that you didn't have it all figured out. Let's go back to a time. What was there a Stage of your business that maybe you felt the stress and overwhelm and recognized some key things there.

Yeah, I'll name a couple of them. And one of them was, we just moved. We just gone to four clinics. We were jumping from 2 to 4 million annual revenue and getting ready to probably double that again. And I realized my skill set as a leader weren't there. And so I enrolled myself in a. It was called tech back then. It's called Vistage now, which is executive training leadership. And it was very helpful for me to meet with other business owners who essentially acted as my board, and they held me accountable to running a business, and it was instrumental in my development. And we'd bring in expert speakers on everything from how to interview, how to run operations, just every gamut of business, how to do a strategy and do some strategic planning, things that were not common or very easy for me to do because I'd never been fully trained in them. And so I learned from people who are running three $400 million businesses. And they would come, we'd meet once a month, and they would poke me in the chest and say, how's your business? And everything from, you know, how you introduce yourself to how you run a business to understanding, you know, what cash is in the business. So at the same time, we were rapidly expanding and going from four to eight clinics. And we were busy. Things were, you know, we're seeing a lot of patients. But I made a couple mistakes, and my mistake was I. I outgrew my cash. We were busy in the clinic.

You didn't have enough money?

I had zero cash. And when I did that again, this board was very helpful to me. They peppered me in the chest and said, look, you know, without cash, you have no business. And I said, no, but look, all these people in my clinic. Look at all this ar. And they couldn't believe the state of my ar, which was a whole nother. Whole nother scenario, because, yes, we were busy, but we weren't collecting the money. And I had to pay people every. Every two weeks. So it. It was a rude awakening. After 15 years of being in business, I essentially bankrupt myself. And I had to go into my own pockets to keep the company going. But I believed in what we were doing, and so I made a few strategic changes there. One of them was bringing on experts in the arenas with which they function. So operations, people, accounting. These were hires.

Were these employees that you hired?

Yep. Okay. And I made that decision to move that route because I realized that the aspect of being a Good practitioner and an operation or just having an office manager was only going to take us so far. Yeah, we need more structure, we needed more systems in order to scale and standardize a few things. And that was a key point. And so when we did that, you know, in the beginning it was just myself and another person who wore several hats a piece. And meanwhile, I'm still treating full time too.

So you're treating full time with all this going on?

Yeah, and a bankrupt the company. So I would see patients, I would go home, see my kids and see my family for a couple hours and I would come back into accounting at night. I mean it was, it was not, it was not the best of times, let's put it that way. But we, when you dig in and you go through those tough things, I think you really learn your business number one. And you, the reason that you got into private practice comes to bear. I didn't come, I didn't get into private practice to make a million dollars. I get into private practice to be creative, have freedom that you mentioned earlier, but also to take care of people. And so we were taking care of people. I just need to figure out some of these other things so that we can, we could continue to do that.

Man, I feel more connected to you. I wanted you to share that so that the audience could be more connected because you and I are buddies. But at the same time, I never knew that. And it's something that is so paralleled in my journey.

I don't go around saying how I bankrupt myself very often.

But what's ironic about that, Tim, is that I think people who are listening are starting to really pay attention because when we see what you've accomplished, and this is true for all very successful people, it can feel out of reach in terms of like, well, that's great for them, but I'm not that guy. So when, when someone says wow, he went from that to that, then it becomes inspiring. It's like, well, maybe I can do more. And I would say, you know, what you said there was so inspiring because it's so relatable to this, the fact that most people probably listening who've struggled in their companies have been in that position where like cash stinks or is non existent, but business is so overwhelming that they're stressed on both ends in a way that you would think would line up. So as people are listening, what would you, what advice would you give to, to young private practice owners in maybe one to two location stages? Like what, what would be the two or three Freedom. Creating tips that you would give them.

There's got to be some standardization and some structure. There's. There's that old adage that structures, you know, set you free. And that was especially true for me in the person that I hired is still with me today, is, you know, provided structure and provided systems. They basically downloaded a lot of the ideas and stuff I had in my head, but put structure on them so everyone could understand them and we could have systems and things in place. And so I think it's really important to look at that and understand. Before anyone goes into private practice, I always ask them, like, why are you doing it? What is your passion point? Because there will come a time when things happen and you're going to have to rely on. That's why I'm doing it. Because if you go into it for financial reasons, there'll be a time when it may not work out. And if that's the only reason you're into it, then it becomes, I think, a shallow, shallow thing. Your passion has to be something, I think, deeper than a material object.

Yeah. It's almost like a trap, right? It's a trap. People get passionate about treating, but they choose to become an owner and then they stay in the business because they're treating and they just burn out.

Yeah. And I think that the key things I would tell them is that, you know, surround yourself and find great mentors, people that you trust that will give you honest opinions, whether that is, you know, an executive training group, someone outside of the business. So when you're, when you're the leader in your business, there's certain things you can't talk to your other employees about. And this is why it's important to have other collaborative leaders that you can talk to and, and not be threatened by it.

That's amazing. I love that advice. Anything else you would add for people.

The other thing is that your, as your business grows, your skill set will have to improve in different areas. And whether that is, you know, for me, I mean that when I started the business, we didn't have computers. That's put it in perspective, is a pegboard accounting system, you know, so all through that, I had to upgrade my computer skills, spreadsheets, understanding all of this thing, you have to continually adapt and grow. You have to grow as a, as a communicator, as a. As a leader. It's one thing to be in front of 10 people. It's different to be in front of 100, and it's certainly different to be in front of 600.

Got it. So here's my question to you. You're at this stage, where do you, are you still like learning these things that you talk about? You have to increase your skill. Are you still increasing your skill or have you hit a skill level where maybe the focus isn't on improving the skill as much as just expanding what you're doing? Like, I'm curious at your stage what.

That looks like now. There's always something to learn. I would say right now the skills that I'm building, passionate about working on are how I can relate better to CEOs so I can solve their problems. So it's sales techniques, it is understanding relationship level sales techniques, it is understanding how to communicate a bigger problem to a bigger audience. Ultimately, I want to fix healthcare and I believe that therapists can have a huge role in that. And doing it as a one off is going to take us a long, long time. Doing it as a collector of hundreds of thousands of therapists who can take care of people. I think there's something very powerful in that.

Yeah, that's inspiring too. I just saw the connection too of your purpose of fixing healthcare and your in this company. Solve global.

Yep.

I have to like slow down because I say solve global. I can't can say it so quickly. People can't hear it. So I like solve global because it's like we're solving this global healthcare issue. And truly, like, I love that you're still working on the skill set, Tim, because again, I think when you're down here looking at other people's accomplishments, it's easier to not connect with that. And it's almost like what you said, those pieces of advice you gave to people at that one to two clinic stages, you're still living, you're just living at a different level, doing it differently. So it's not like you've stopped learning, it's just what the context is, has shifted. Maybe expanded might be the better word than shifted. I don't know.

I've always believed in asking why? And so as a practitioner, we asked, you know, why did the rotator cuff tear?

Yeah.

You know, who, who are his friends that didn't come to bail him out? And why did that one tear not the other one, you know, and, and so as you ask why, you learn a deeper solution, you learn deeper answers to where the problem in the biomechanical source may be. It may be that the rotator cuff tore, but the biomechanical problem may be down in the left ankle. And if you don't understand how to connect things. That's a big issue. And so you apply that. I apply that same aspect to how to work with people, but also how to work with business. Because there are problems out there. And you ask, well, what are there? What are they? You look at healthcare, for example. It's a $5 trillion industry. Why isn't it better? Why is it costing more every year?

Yeah.

And we're not getting a good return on investment because of walking down the streets of America. I don't see 10% healthier people.

Yeah, we're getting sicker. Cost is going up. We're getting sicker. Although I did heard yesterday from a practitioner that last year was the first year, thanks to Ozempic and, And Triazepatide. That is the first year where obesity actually started shifting the other way. But anyway, I mean, to your point, this massive expense that we have is not. It's not showing up. If anything, it's getting worse. And we know that the musculoskeletal people who are listening the PTO TSLP is like, we are the solution. It's not like, oh, we should be doctors. It's like, no, we are the solution. And I love that your passion is helping them at this stage. What about this? Did you ever, Tim, did you ever have guilt as you were starting to step into leadership more? Did you ever have guilt not treating or not being over the team directly as you've gone through these different stages? That's something I know I have had a different. Okay, so you've had that. How do you handle the guilt of becoming more free in your business?

It's a fabulous question, and it's one I honestly struggle with all the time. Yeah, absolutely. I still, you know, I, I in. In my garage, I have a little workout area, but I have a table and stuff because I bring people in and I treat them here because it's. It's easier for me to just to bring them in and treat them. So I always, I always likened it to a. A smoker. You know, smokers always got that little twitch. You know, they. They want to smoke, they want to have their finger, like for me, for putting my hands on people for, you know, 20, 30 years. It's like I've been a therapist for almost, almost 40 now. You're. You want, you want to do something. And so I had that nervous thing that I want to do something with my hands. And, and for me, that, you know, you, you. When I went back to get my fellowship training, I got it in clinical I got it in clinical training. I didn't go back and get an MBA or, you know, a different degree. I went back and got a fellowship in treating because to me, that's where I felt like I could help the business the most, number one. But two is where my passion lied. And it keeps me connected to our clinicians, keeps me connected to what we do as a. As a profession. And so I've never really left the clinical side. But you bring up an important point, like when you're stepping out of it, that's. That's challenging and some people are ready to be done with it. To me, treating was always the easiest part. Being executive is way harder. I do not like sitting. I don't. You know, it was always. The clinic was just fun for me. I had a blast in the clinic. It was chaos. It was, you know, seeing. Seeing patients and helping them was always the fun part. But I also realized that I could help 15 people today or I could help 20 people today, but I have 200 people relying on me for their paycheck. I have to make better decisions. And it was selfish for me to see 15 people when I could help people. I could help train therapists who could do that. I could still be around to do mentorship and, and do evaluations and stuff with therapists and problem solve and treatment plan, but to do it and not do my other work, which at a time was causing problems for the company. I was, I was short, short sighting the company.

So, yeah, in short, like this, what I heard you say was, yeah, you still struggle with it, and the only way you've been able to work through it is recognizing that stepping forward into freedom was actually what was better for all.

Yes.

That's so amazing. I mean, honestly, I mean, mine's kind of blown. I'm just thinking, of all people, I thought you'd be like, oh, well, I struggled with that 20 years ago, and here's how I did it, and it's gone. And because I still struggle when I progress in whatever business I'm doing or whatever I'm working in, on. On not being in that space. But it's. I think I will say this. I was listening to a psychologist who was talking about this new diagnosable state of mind called the healer mindset. Obviously, healthcare providers, but it's not just healthcare providers who have it. It's a mindset that they're using in psychology to help treat people. Because people who consider themselves healers, they have all these great qualities and they're. They're Very prone for overwhelm, not taking care of themselves. Getting into a victim mindset about, like, well, no one's doing as much as I am. Like, just every person has an element of that. But a healer mindset is, like, embodies those qualities in such a big way that I, I think there's something really kind of beautiful for me, honestly. Like, it's almost like, comforting to go, oh, Tim still has elements of that in his life. It's okay. It's okay.

You bring up a great point. And I struggled with that mightily as we were growing and trying to put some structure into the business. And, you know, we were reading all kinds of different books and stuff on the subject matter of how to. How to. How to get better. And wasn't until I said, I need help in front of my team and made myself vulnerable that they finally go, well, great. Finally. You ask. I was trying to help them and grow the business, but I hadn't asked them for help. And being vulnerable in front of them was a. Was the biggest freedom that I got because they said, well, here, here. Dumb, dumb, dumb shit.

Don't worry, you're fine.

Yeah, but it, it was, yes, we will fix this, and we'll fix this. They were ready to help. Yeah, I hadn't asked them. And so from then on, I've. It was just. It's a. It's incredibly liberating to find experts, people and say, I need help with this. I need help with this. And whether it's my own team or outside resources, it. You know, once I got over that hump, man, that was liberating and freedom, you know, squared. It was monumental for me.

You know, Tim, I can't thank you enough for sharing that. And it's so powerful. You know, this whole shift in the show is all about, like I said to you earlier, about helping people really achieve freedom and not just have it be a tagline. And so I've learned so much in these new episodes. And you, you identified what I am going to tell people is the single greatest tip of becoming free, which is finally being vulnerable enough to ask for help. Man, it's such a simple thing, but, man, do we need.

It's the strongest thing. It's the strongest thing to be vulnerable.

And Brene Brown, other leaders are saying that when leaders can show vulnerability, it shows connection, it creates culture and all the things that we're trying to achieve.

Yeah.

So, okay, well, Tim, I think you just hit like, a major, A major clip that we're going to use in social Media over and over again. That was huge. My. We're going to shift now into this theme of, like, how technologies and movements in our industry are there to help free us up. This AI versus VA piece in your case, let's start with AI. I want to hear more about how Solve Global and artificial intelligence work together to help create freedom for the, these, this new model and your patients and like the whole thing.

Sure. So there's a, there's a, you know, a big aspect of, you know, healthcare. We have, we have tests, we have all kinds of different tests to tell us, you know, if you're diabetic. We have blood tests. We have different things to test for heart, heart disease. We have different tests for all kinds of things. So if I stand up in front of a group of therapists and say, what is the test? To tell me what risk you have for a musculoskeletal condition.

Yeah.

And most, most therapists would not have a clue. And the answer is, it's a comfort and performance survey is what it is. It's, you know, how are you doing? And then we have a, A, a thing that is research based that has different questions that we ask that determine the individual risk index. And then that is compiled into, to a, through predictive analytics and in that, into a, a, an index for the company so we know where their risk is. And that risk is, is very easily to translate into dollars and very easy to translate into what happens to these employees. We know, for instance, I just, just had a, someone reach out and said, Hey, 50% of my injuries happen in the first 30 days of employment. Oh, wow, large company. And I'm going, okay, now we could say, oh, these people are coming over and they're faking it. But when you boil it down, it's, it's not that at all because there's been studies in the military that, you know, we have all these people coming into boot camp that are putting on packs, starting to run, starting to do all this stuff. And they develop musculoskeletal injuries because they're, they're ramping up. And it just for, just like the military, it doesn't behoove them to injure people. They meet people who are, who are ready for combat. Right. Combat ready is the new phrase they want to have. And employees need to be like the firefighters, fit for fire. Are they ready to go into harm's way and not only take care of themselves, but do their job? And so these employees that are coming in, what does a company do in the first 30 days when they give them a repetitive physical task, you know, are they doing something to help ramp these people up? Just like you would an athlete, Just like you would someone returning to sport, you know, probably an injury, it's no different. These people are doing physical work. How are we preparing them for that? So when we look at it, say, all right, I can't take a thousand people and have them do a marching test. You know, that's not going to work. But I have to use technology and AI type things to find out where these people are and then intervene. Whether it's an individual basis or our data will let us know that, hey, the third shift working on this machine, these 10 people are having problems with their right shoulders.

So does AI analyze all this data and tell you those elements? Like this is where your weak. This is where in your. Because that one guy knew, hey, the first 30 days, this is where so many percent of my injuries occur. AI is taking those surveys, analyzing all the data and saying here's the risk areas or here's the things that need to be worked on to prevent that.

Yeah, I wouldn't, I mean, I wouldn't say it's true AI, it's more predictive analytics, but there is AI generated things within it.

Oh, I see.

And you know, we use, we use a lot of AI in our, in our messaging in terms of how we are trying to connect with folks. So I think there's a lot of things there as well. You know, it, you know, I will say that I am not the most up on AI guy that, that's out there either. You know, I'm not of that age that is totally into it and not.

Like you've got this company that's leveraging this AI assisted analytics piece. And most people I've interviewed so far might have like a note taker or chat. GPT is like a, an email cleaner. But like most people so far in this episode, this is my fifth episode I filmed today. Most people so far don't have this groundbreaking like knowledge of AI. So I don't think you're as far out as you think. But if, if anything, you're probably more advanced because you are using this in this new model of business for analytical reasons, which is so amazing.

Yeah, I do like those, those note takers. I got a fathom or whatever you want to call them, you know, the different model ones that are out there. Man, does that make, you know, synthesizing a hour long conversation to go, oh, here's the things I need to do and to me, when you talk about freedom, freedom is time. And if that can do that work and condense it down and give me my next steps or something I can delegate. That's time, that's freedom.

Yeah, that makes total sense. So that's neat that you have some experience there. Spooner. Physical therapy isn't leveraging any specific AI products at this point. Is it like any industry wide ones or is it more of these smaller ones that we're talking about?

Yeah, I would say there's some things on the business intelligence that they're looking to use. I wouldn't say we recently have changed practice management software and so we're getting into their business analytics and, and business intelligence stuff there. So. Okay, it's coming.

Research and development. Research and development. You're looking into some things that are going to be big. And I know I won't say anything on who, but I remember there was at one point you were looking at some AI solutions as well. Yeah. On the back office end. So there's, you guys are. I think that's a common theme I'm finding Tim is a lot of guys and girls are in the early stages of just like seeing what's out there for, for, for healthcare businesses.

Yeah. When I look at it, it to me it's how can I take my people that work for us that are helping us take care of people and free up routine, mundane tasks.

Yeah.

And whether that is in rcm, whether that is in just front office and being able to do things with, you know, helping patients schedule easier or verify insurance, things that could be done on an automated basis if the industry was a little bit more efficient. But I want my people to operate at their highest level. I want my therapist to have time to be able to think so that they can treat complex patients that are walking through the door and what can I do to free up their time of documentation?

Right.

And take, take away some of these things that are not having a therapist with a doctorate level education, you know, mess with, you know, stupid insurance forms. You know, this stuff, this stuff needs to go away. This is amen. This is not operating at our, at our highest level. So you know, we need to do things that, you know, we need people to operate at a much, much higher level. And when, when they do that to me it's like I get to help people be, be, you know, they're, they're, they're, they're most successful that they are and they get to grow. And so that, that's the fun part for me. I'M in the, I'm in the process of helping people grow and helping them get to their next level. Because if they come and take my job, that's great because I've got a bigger problem, I want to go solve it.

Yeah, you're, you're, you're clearly choosing with your passion and your purpose to keep going up as far as you can to help solve health care. So, like, when someone replaces your, what you're doing, you've helped them for one, and then they're helping you solve the bigger issue. So I love that part and I like that you went to the human side of things, Tim, because that's a nice transition over to the virtual assistant side. Now that we have an idea of how you use AI, are you currently working with any virtual assistants? The second fastest growing trend.

We are not working with any virtual assistants at this time. What we've noticed is that over the last 10 years, let's say the people are shifting. What they want to, how they want to engage with healthcare, you know, before is like they got to come up, they want to talk to some individual. But now we're noticing that there's a significant population that wants to schedule on their own. They want to fill out their things online. They in. So they want, they want those automated tools that they can do on their own time to make it efficient for when they come into a clinic. I think it's, you know, some patients, I don't think they want to be in the clinic any longer than they have to. Yeah. And they don't want to be, you know, they don't want to be inundated with repetitive paperwork, which again, is a, is a nuisance in our inner, in our industry as well.

So all healthcare, every time I just went to a doctor a couple weeks ago, I filled out the same bit of information on six different pieces of paper. And I'm going, this is insanity. Yeah, I'm doing this. Yeah.

And it's, it's so. It's a waste of people's times. We should, we should be better. So that being said, we notice that people are consuming different. So we have kiosks, we have ways for them to sign in online, we have ways for them to fill out their paperwork and, and do things that we have ways for them to engage with our therapists via chat functions and, and do things that are more efficient for them. And the more that our profession embraces this, the more freedom they're going to get back. And I say that because what isn't happening right now is we're stuck in a schedule, we're stuck in a slot and people are bound by a slot because that's how we're getting paid right now. So it's piecemeal. And we have to change our thinking into a value mindset that says if someone does a chat with me and I engage with them and I provide value, there's a renumeration for that. So when we take care of employers, that, that, that time is value. And because of that, we're not getting paid for words in a chat. We're getting paid to keep that person, well, keep that person healthy. And when we keep that person healthy, that saves the employer money. It also makes a more productive and healthy employee. So it's just moving our mindset over to this other side to say, how can I use all the things that I know as a therapist and provide help and make sure that I'm there when the client, the employee needs me?

I love that. So kind of on the first part of what you were saying about the VA element is you're saying, hey, it's not that you're using AI or VAs, you're trying to just minimize the automation of either so that people can just do it themselves. Kind of like the self express checkout lane when it comes to the front desk.

Yep.

Do you, what are your thoughts about companies that use virtual assistants for any side of the business? Like, do you have any reservations for not using virtual assistants?

I don't. I mean there's, there's, there's a certain aspect of the population that needs, needs help. And so I don't know what the backup is on a virtual assistant when someone, you know, has a frustration or doesn't, you know, it doesn't click. But the models that I've seen, they, they work pretty well. Okay. And I just think when I'm treating in multi language barriers and different things that there's some complexity there. And personally, when I opened my first clinic, the reason I wanted to open it was to deliver customer service. And can I deliver customer service with the va? Yes. Is it the same as what I would want to have? Well, it depends on how well I, number one, if I hire someone, how well I train them, because I can train that VA over time and get them better and better and better. But there's a, there's a human, human aspect there that as an old school person, I'm, I'm, you know, I'm not, I'm not there yet. And I, I would like to not have, I Would like to pay that person more because they do such a great job of being my extender. But there's. There's things that we have to decrease where we don't have to have as many of them, for instance. So that's where I think these other added VA things can help just decreasing the load in a. In a busier practice.

Thank you so much for that answer. That was such a great response. I've been like, I told you before we hit record, I don't want this thing to be a giant commercial. I'm really interested in just these trends and freedom. And I think your point is incredibly valid. That, like, there. It's a total shift of model to work with virtual assistants. And even though you guys are. There's nothing against it and you're even open to some of these utilizations. I like your focus, Tim. Of like, no, that person who is at the desk, whatever point the patient has a contact with, you want it. You're willing to pay them more. Because here's a person who, like, lack of better terms, is a salesman. Like, there. There's, like, human interaction, a connecting point there that is so personal that, like, if. If it ain't broke, don't fix it kind of mentality. If you've got that thing going, why would there be a huge shift or a need in that space? Space.

I liken them to a party. I liken them to a party planner. Because I always looked at the back of the clinic where I'm treating as the party where we're having fun and stuff. And if someone calls up to the front, I want them to invite them to the party. Yeah, you know, I don't want to ask them, hey, what's your charge card waiting? You know, I don't.

And you don't want. And you want them to understand what they're saying. You want to hear clear communication, too.

I want them to say, you've got a problem. We've got someone who can help you fix it. Welcome to the party. Oh, man, I. That. I want it to be that. Because that's the atmosphere we try and create. We want to have fun in the clinic. People are coming in in pain. Their life has been disrupted with a car accident. Their life has been disrupted with surgery or something. Or they've been kicked, you know, kicked out of their sport because they had an injury. We're here to help restore some normalcy, but we better have fun while we're doing it or, you know, this is a tough gig, man.

And I think that's why people go. There's a lot of private practitioners who listen to this, but the PTs, who are most of our audience, the OTs and the SLPs, that's why we got into it. It's the human connection and the fun of it. I have a lot of fun in my current, you know, world for sure. But I don't know about you, Tim, but for me, there was a stage.