Transform your Investments with 'Buy and Hold' and 'BRRRR' Tactics | CJ Calio | WNN Properties

Let me ask you a question. Why not now? WNN Properties, we're gonna go live with them here on our podcast this week and talk a little bit more on the residential side, commercial side as far as investing. I mean, our co host knows top to bottom about investing. Mr. Dan Ganny. I don't know how many doors he has now, but he's absolutely crushing it. And left, right, front and center. I'm seeing his post yesterday. He's talking about your stories and saw that 10 increase on the rental side for, for organ investors, which is awesome. So welcome to the show, man. Excited to have today's guest. How are you doing?

Doing great. Thanks for the introduction and yeah, changing times, crazy, crazy interest rates and investors got to pivot. So this is going to be a good episode.

Yeah, 100%. Well, let's bring in the man himself. We got CJ, he's the co founder of WWE in properties. And I love how they focus on the bur bur strategies which is one of them. Buy, rehab, rent, refinance and repeat. I know you guys have memberships and you're helping individuals in the general public really get literacy up to par from how do you invest, how do you get in real estate and what have you. But cj, welcome to the podcast today.

Yeah, thanks for having me on. Norman. Nice to see you. Dan.

Nice to see you.

Of course, of course. So let's kind of get into it and first and foremost, why why did you co found this company? And I know your, your PR manager is doing a great job getting out different podcasts. We're excited to have you today. So, so why, why WW Properties?

My why starts way back to when I was at my W2 still. So strangely enough, real estate was never my primary focus or even my idea is my wife's. And before I I got into real estate, my W2 profession was a UPS driver. And it's a great paying job, right? You don't need much of an education. You get to put in some hard work, you get paid well, good benefits, good medical and so forth. And at the time I lived in Hawaii. I'm born and raised from Hawaii. I recently moved to the States and it's what kept our lifestyle very comfortable. And the funny thing is is about comfort. It's good until it's not. And I found that one time of year that I'm pretty sure you and your listeners know where us UPS drivers don on that brown Santa suit, right? We become become the Santa that delivers all the Amazon and the goodies. Well, up until this Christmas, it was enjoyable. I felt fulfilled. I felt like I had a purpose. I was serving people, I was giving and creating good memories with my clients. However, this one Christmas that stands out was a Christmas, I call it from hell. We weren't ready, we were understaffed, we weren't prepared for the blow up. It was when Amazon really launched and took off. And being in Hawaii, everything gets flown in so it comes in very quickly. And we were under staff and I found myself working about six months, 70 hour plus work weeks, seven days a week, missing my family, missing my kids, missing the loved ones through that time of year that I should be able to enjoy with them as well. Right? I actually worked that Christmas day during that Christmas, which is, oh man, I'll never forget how frustrated, angry, upset I was that I, I got to be on road and delivering these guys packages, making them smile while my kids are sat at home not seeing their dad. And that, that really caused that shift from comfort to discomfort. And I had an opportunity to take a look at do I want to be here for the next 35 years. And my answer was no. So after it subsided, I approached my wife and I was like, you know what, this sucked. This is not what I signed up for. Trading time for money isn't working. No matter how much they paid me, I didn't see the value in the dollar amount. By not having that memory with my kids and my family during the season. I want to quit. And surprised. To her response, she said, sure. One question, how are you going to replace your income? She got me, man, I was stuck. I had no clue, no idea. And she proposed real estate. And I went from having the support from my lovely, strong, powerful wife to pushing her away. And that's where my story takes a twist. I pushed her away because real estate, I have no clue prior to where I'm at now, I, I had no clue to what real estate was, what it entailed. I had no experience, I wasn't an agent. I don't come from a trades background. My family weren't, weren't in the real estate market or to trade or profession. So a lot of fear came up for me. And fear as a man who's a provider really shifted my, oh yay, she's on board too. Oh, you go do that, you go do that. And I'm gonna go figure out something else, which is what I did. I went six, nine months later. I, I tried a bunch of startups then things that I had experience in in the past, like landscaping or washing car. You know, these manual labor, limited mindset of how to create more income. And like most startups, they failed. It just failed. I found myself more depressed, more angry, more frustrated, and frankly, out of more capital than I first started because they didn't work. I got humbled and I got welcomed back to my wife, which, strangely enough, she was still in real estate and really focused in on this thing called the buy and hold strategy for, for cash flow. And I, I sucked it up and I said, you know what? I'll go to one of your cult meetings, is what I call it the REI meetups, right? I'm going to your cult meeting where you're fellowshipping and eating pizza and talking story about real estate. And I went. Wasn't approachable. I was super defensive still in that thinking of, I don't want to look stupid, I'm a dude, I should know it all. And arms crossed, don't talk to me normally, come up to me. I'd be like, you just go talk to my wife. Dan would come up to me, no, I'm not here. I'm just fly on the wall, ignore me. The funny thing is, the more meetups I went to, the more consistent she was on encouraging me to show up. I started to lower my defenses, largely in part to people like you guys that would be on the stage sharing their failures and successes. So this wasn't just the hype of success. It was, hey, here's. Here's some tuition I paid into a deal that didn't make sense, and I'm still going back. And it just started to click like, okay, these guys aren't crazy. Something works here. Now I'm a little bit more interested. And through meetups, we met networks, which then introduced us to more team members out in the states. And we pulled our trigger on our first deal. And from there, it was a snowball effect. We just kept going, boom, boom, boom, boom. And now we find ourselves today at a level of success where people started asking us, can you teach me? And we created WNN about five years ago and helped hundreds of people through the program. Starting with the monopoly analogy. You get those, those cards, you build your set, you get your green houses, and then eventually you roll them into those red hotels where the real cash flow comes in. And that's our story.

Wow, dude, congratulations. Dan knows all about those red houses or hotels.

No, I. I mean. And is there a specific strategy that you guys focus on teaching? Is it. Is it broad and wide, or is it. Is it specifically the burst strategy? And and making moves using that. That protocol.

Yeah, it's a good question. So our focus is around the strategy of creating cash flow through buy and hold rental properties. Brrrr is a complement to that strategy. We don't teach wholesaling or flipping or any other strategy that can still get you there to your goal. It just looks different. It's a different vehicle is what we call it. So those that want to work with us are interested specifically in buying out of state rentals and, and playing with the Burr strategies. So if they do turnkey or if they want to buy a small multi, all of that falls in our focus and we can support with. And we love the Burr because it really helped us to scale quickly.

Yeah. And I think there's more education on when you separate those two categories of investors. I was actually on a zoom call with bigger pockets this morning, kind of helping them on the product side with some feedback. And the I said that there's tons of people out there that want to get started in real estate. Unfortunately they always typically follow the path of either being a real estate agent or wholesaling. But on top of that is then they fall into the path of like I want to flip houses but they have no down payment so they can't get hard money and they don't understand loan to values and rehab budgets. And then there's this like this really, really big defining line where somebody's like I want to be a buy and hold investor right off the bat. And it's not the sexiest thing. Guys, we're hearing about syndications, we're talking about boutique hotels, we're talking about storage units. Right. Go down every like buzzword and investments. But no one's really saying like I'm buying and holding and then I'm burring especially in 7% interest rates. And I think the true wealth is in that hold. And I think it's because it's not quick money. That's probably what you're experiencing and having success with is changing the mindset of the, the the beginning investor to understand that long term wealth is in the hold.

Yes, Dan, we're gonna get along well. Everything you said is things that I say to new investors all the time at our meetups or when I'm socializing at events. It's true. You know, flipping is sexy. It's quick, it's fast, it's a lot. Then what? That's my question to the then what? If you're not doing your next flip, you don't make that next six figure Payout.

Yeah.

How long can you survive before you get to go back to the W2, which is against our philosophy and belief. When you exit, you stay out. It's not an option. You just add more and create more. And, and speaking of flipping, Hawaii is where I, I came from and where I started investing. There's a lot of flippers there. It's a high appreciation state, can make some really good money. Right. And my, one of the debates I would get into often with the flippers or new flippers is, well, I don't have money. So my question is, how are you going to fund the deal? Well, I'm going hard money. Great. How are you going to fund your rehab? I'm going to raise private money. Great. Remove hard money, raise private money. Take that, buy several houses in my state because they're at $100,000 a pop. Could you do that? And then the shift is pretty interesting to see some get it and others like not. I need to make a lot first and be sitting on money. You're, you're never going to have enough. And money's easily available if you know where to find it and have the right mindset around opportunity to create. That's what's going to take you from the singles to the multis to the large portfolio to financial independence.

I love that. I love that. That's awesome. Go ahead, Dan.

I was gonna say the, the biggest component that I see from a personal experience is that like when I, when a new investor comes in, whether you're going to work with me as an agent or they're just a friend or mentor mentee type of relationship, I really inform them that like I want to, I want to create a relationship that you understand that being a real estate investor is holistic. Meaning you got to be, you got to be full 360 degrees. You got to have eyes in the back of your head. You got to know where to find money, you got to know where to find deals. You got to be good at marketer. You have to be good with accounting, but understanding underwriting and understanding what makes a good deal, if you don't know the numbers, another investor in your market is will and they will, they will surpass you. You will not know how to identify a good deal. So how does your education platform or process really focus in on the underwriting, the numbers, being able to evaluate a good deal?

Yeah, I mean for, for what we teach is it's not finding a great deal, it's creating it. And we all got to start with knowing where we're at everybody's situation and circumstances unique. And I had a good W2, my wife had a good W2. We were very mortgageable, hence why we started with turnkey until we ran out of money, until we ran out of the ability to get mortgages. Then we pivoted. Now with new investors that come in that may not have money, you might get to focus on creating relationships and opportunity around raising capital to then invest OPM other people's money and use that form of leverage or other creative ways to get deals done versus somebody that has a high paying profession that has a lot of capital. They could just throw money at deals all day long. So being very intentional, what we do is we work with each individual specifically create what we call buy box and challenge them to take action on it. If these ranges and markers you set in parameters of what you feel will work for your deal when something falls in it, why aren't you doing it? One thing I was just talking about to our community on our weekly zoom call on Wednesday was a lot of what we do in a brrrr is a projection. Until you finish it completely, you don't know how accurate you were. So why talk yourself out of a deal when it makes sense off of your parameters? You set up front, get the result, debrief, adjust, pivot, move, go to the next deal. That's what we teach and accountability is big in our space. So when you say you're going to do something, guess what? Me and a bunch of advisors are going to be up in your face whether you like it or not saying why aren't you doing it? This is what you said you wanted.

Go.

We'll support you. You got the support, you got the backing, you got the team, you got the experience. Now go. Let's get that result so we can learn from it.

Because you got to operate in the uncomfortable.

Yes. Yeah. That's where growth happens.

Yeah.

100.

Deal deal paralysis analysis or whatever you want to call it is is rampant in this business, especially with new investors. We see it time and time again.

Yeah, I love that. No, so true. So true. I just wanted for the viewers listeners out there. I want to encourage everyone to like the episode. Subscribe comment below. Is this stuff helpful so far? And big thank you to lift off Asian for sponsoring the show and I wanted to go ahead and just add into so my wife, what happened on our story is she had a 401k we liquidated because we retired her. So we're up to almost our fifth flip and exactly like you said, cj, what's next? Because at the end of the day, you're always the next deal, the next deal, the next deal. Now, luckily, we have other things we're doing. So that's not money we're depending on. That's just like a cherry on top, if you will. And so what we found out was, is we have a client on the lift off agent side that's in Tulsa, Oklahoma. And so basically we're flipping to show quarter million plus of revenue to be able to have the opportunity to be able to buy homes for the buy and hold process. And so you can go to Tulsa, Oklahoma and buy a property for 100,000 as well. You potentially could do the brrrr method as well. And, and out there, what they're doing is, is they're doing Airbnb short term and they're doing nurse facilities. So they're doing like traveling nurses. And so a couple investors out there, because you can only get so much on return on investment, they're. They're actually dividing the home up. So that way there's like the kitchen, but like dividing the living room, dividing the garage. They don't need that to get as many rooms as possible to see a 3 to 4 extra turn on monthly rents just because they're going after the traveling nurses process. So. So it's very true as far as what you're talking about, as far as what's next. And, and yeah, sometimes it sucks when you flip a property and it's like, all right, so averages, our market is what, six, six weeks? Okay. It's, we're going on six weeks. We get this thing flipped and then we need the cash flow. It's, it's a process. But just for anyone who's out there, just wanted to. Right.

He.

Norman brings up some funny. And I want you to chime in on this. C.J. too, is I got three flips right now. Overpriced. And I hope my sellers hear this because I told them they're overpriced. Right. But their, their project took too long. They spent more money than they anticipated. Some of them have hard money locked in, some of them don't have hard money. But long story short is they go to the moon with the price. It sits on the market. We don't get any offers. Then we got to do price reductions and closing costs, concessions. And at the end of the day, I think the burst strategy, that whole exit plan of what I just described is eliminated. Right. It's based on pro forma. It's Based upon does the monthly cash flow make sense? Can you stack cash flow? Can you use your cash flow to reinvest in your next brrrr. Right. And, and get that rehab cycle. And I just wanted to share this one quick instance is that if you're a real estate broker out there and you don't think you should be working with investors, you're absolutely crazy. I purchased a property in which I bought an interest only owner financing and I used the cash flow for a year. We didn't start burying it for, until it was about 14 months after acquisition. And my wife literally came down yesterday and she's like, oh, I paid off the, the American Express Lowe's card and I paid off the plumber and the foreign guy. So basically like everything should be paid off now for all the rehab. And she goes just fii the balance didn't go down because 14 months of cash flow paid for all of the rehab.

Yeah.

And I said ooh, that's interesting. The Property also appreciated $45,000 in the same period of time. So basically I rehabbed it for free technically and I made 45 grand while still holding on to almost a half million dollar asset. So I want to share that. Yes. In high interest rate market right now, what are you instructing or, or telling your Burr investors? Because right now sometimes they're locked in. Right. It doesn't make sense to refinance. Are there specific strategies or what is your advice to the investor right now because of Burr in specific markets, what they should be doing, should they hold, should they put their head down, should they not rehab?

What's your thoughts? Oh that, that's a very good question. And it's so funny how it works. You know, somebody was just asking us this or me this yesterday on my, my weekly call with the group. And it really comes down to what we preach, have options. It's the beautiful thing of our strategy is buy and capital letters hold. If you can hold long enough, you will make out. So when you're approaching deals on the front end, are you preparing for the back end? What does your exit strategies look like? And if you're limited to one, sell I. E Flipping good. You're really putting yourself in a make or break situation. Now if you okay, I can refi, I can reposition, I can sell or finance, I can get private money and replace my money. There's so many ways to create that solution. It's limited to your creativeness. So it's not the lack of resources, the lack of resourcefulness and, and if we're preaching this, we're preaching on. Okay. When you look at a deal, it's not just refi. What if it doesn't work? Control what you can control, which is front loaded, let go of the rest. I don't control rates, I don't control banks appraisals and all that other stuff. I control how I ran my numbers and I can control how to adapt and move because of end result that I don't control. And that's what we preach and teach.

That's. That's super critical out there. And I think that's, you know, my, my business partners like real estate mentor coach, he always talks about that finance is, is like the coat that real estate wears and, and understanding the burst strategy and, and understanding the financing aspect is so important to using these buy and hold investments, as we call them garages for money. Right. Do we need to borrow against them and cross collateralize? Do we need to find an investor to go into second position because we have tons of equity? Do we want to sell one of these properties in 1031 or sell these properties and pay the tax implications on it, but use that cash as a, as the next movement of holding? And no. I want anybody out there that flips homes. There's no problem with it. You should do it. You should have that. Some strategy in the mix. But what CJ's teaching is I'm a big Nate Barger fan. If you're familiar with him and the, the Burr Facebook group that he has with over 250,000 members. Nate always talks about this is like without the Burr strategy and holding those properties, he's like, your, your success rate is like maybe 10%. That's how many flippers get into the business, fail and remove themselves from the business. Yeah, that's nuts. So we hope it bring this impact to. Is there anything else CJ that like you feel a. If a real estate agent is listening to this and they understand the BRRRR strategy, how should they help their clients be more successful with investments?

Oh man, this is a very, very good subject. It's something that we encourage early on in our program to go and create networks with agents because agents are a crucial piece to everything we do. And what I would advise agents is to be very clear around your goals and make sure it's in alignment to the investor. What I found that doesn't work through pure experience. I've worked with over 300 agents to date. A lot of them come and go because it's. We're not in alignment and sometimes they're saying things because they want to work with me, and other times it's, it's just pure natural synergy. But what I found is when agents are trying to adapt and become something they're not, we don't find success. So as an agent, I request, when I'm interviewing up front, are you open to my vision and goals for what I do as an investor? If you're in alignment, let's go. And you got to trust the process because right now, low inventory, high rates, unrealistic sellers still living in covet season, we're gonna be putting a lot more offers. But no, when I'm, when I hit, I'm closing. And that's what we preach on the investor side. Don't lock up to negotiate down. Lock up because the deal made sense with the facts you have today. You renegotiate when you get new facts, I. E. Inspections, due diligence, GC walkthrough, whatever that looks like. But if your number worked originally and nothing changes, why aren't you closing and paying that team member who's invested all that time? That's my challenge to the investor side. But agents, be honest with your investor. Are you in agreement with what they lay out? And if they don't lay out anything, my question is, what are your plans as an investor?

Yep. And I think the best type of investor agent to work with is an agent who invests.

Yes. And I, I get it.

There's no retirement plan for agents. So if you're not stacking doors or you're not like building a tech company or some residual business on the side. The quickest way to find the best agents is find the ones that understand your lingo, your jargon, your strategy. And, and yeah, like said, mesh with them, right? Let them. A guy called me yesterday from Southern California. He's like, oh, I saw your Instagram. I work in the construction business, but I want to buy some Airbnbs. And I was like, where at? He's like, oregon. I'm like, awesome. Each and every one of these jurisdictions has different regulations for short term rentals. I said, let me send you a breakdown of every single regulation for every single town on the coast from Brookings all the way to Lincoln City to Florence. I sent him this stuff. And this guy just literally was like, dude, you've helped me in 24 hours more than any agent has in five years. And so we set up those searches, we got everything rolled. But point I'm getting at is that if you intimately don't Know your market. You don't know the regulations, the laws, the rules. How do you instruct, advise, provide for your investor?

Well, we encourage people to tap into our market and our solidified teams off the bat to get some credibility, get some knowledge base and experience from there. You can take and go anywhere and do this. You can do it anywhere. It's more of the building of the fundamentals that we want to preach and then go take action on it. Because like you were saying, short term rentals, do we do it? I don't personally. However, what I teach can be applied to short term after you have the fundamental understanding. Because like you said in the beginning, Dan, it's all math. It doesn't lie. One plus one is two, not three or five or ten, it's two. So if the math adds up, the deal makes sense. Do, do the deal.

No, I love it. I love that.

I love that.

Well, Norm, I think where can people find you? How can they sign up? Like, where do they find your content? Like, give us your, your, give us your breakdown.

Yeah, you guys can just follow us at Instagram, at WNN Properties. From there. There's links to our website, to our platform, what we have available. We are launching what we're going to have a day long boot camp. For those that are just not sure of who we are, believe that we, we have knowledge and wisdom to share and impart. It goes live sometime in October. I don't have the exact date. However, the link will be on our social media platform. That's the best way to follow us.

I love that, I love that. And in closing, so it can get extremely complicated for people. Right, because people don't understand even where to start. Right. So of course, you know, links are down below. Go to the website, set up a strategy, call it C.J. and his team. I'm sure they'll walk you through it. But for anyone that wants to get some additional words of encouragement, you know, who knows, there's some stubborn people out there, they want to do things on their own. Right. What would be some things that you would give to someone out there if they're struggling like you were? They don't like their job, they want to get out of their job. They want to have passive income. The thing about this, for retirement, I mean, what would be some words of wisdom as we close out the show that you want to leave with our guests and audience today?

Yeah, thanks, Norman. A few things that come to mind is one of the first things I ask new investors is why, why real estate? Why the bird strategy. If you don't have a strong enough, why, I'm going to talk you out of it, right? So if you want to flip, go flip. You want to buy and hold, buy and hold. I'm not going to tell you to do my comp, my program, because I want you in here. I want you to be in here because you want to be in here. This is what I'm doing, and you want to have what I have, you get to do what I do. So if those two questions are answered yes, yes, then give us a shot. And if it's not, go find somebody where you can answer those two questions as yes, yes. The second thing is more is lost in indecision than the wrong decision. So take decisive action. What it may be, look at my story. Nine failed startups. I got to go down that path. It's what I needed to experience to get to where I'm at today and to understand I'm very resilient, I'm persistent. These things didn't break me. They made me. Failures are my stepping stones to success. And if you're not failing, you ain't trying something new. So go out and take action.

Love it, man. Now we're gonna have to collaborate more off air, and I think the more people in this, this space is. Is key. I was on Jay Garcia's mobile home investing podcast a couple, I think it was on Sunday, and he was talking about, like, you know, if you can provide value and raise the community up, like, that's what you should be doing. He's like, when I started in this business, none of the investors cared about me at all. Like, I had to scramble for information. He's like, thank God there was, like, bigger pockets and some places where we could dip into. But no, man, I honor you and I appreciate what you're doing for the community.

Thanks.

Likewise. Likewise. Yeah, this is amazing. And as soon as I saw it and I went to the website, did some additional research, as we always do to deep dive before you kick off any of the shows, I was like, dude, Dan, this is up your wheelhouse. And I sent over all the links and everything else, and that's what this is about here at Real Estate first, technology to give back and serve and support. And, you know, all the greats know as soon as you get to a certain tipping point, you know, you have the passive residual, you got money in the bank, you're good. It's like, well, now what? We got to educate, support other people so they can get to the same place and they can be good as well. And we could all be able to enjoy life, right?

It's short.

So, cj, thanks so much for being on the podcast. Really do appreciate your time today and it was a lot of fun.

Thank you guys.

Yeah.

Dan, thanks again for co hosting. As always, glad this lined up perfectly for your wheelhouse.

Yeah, this is awesome. We'll Talk here shortly. C.J.

Yeah, definitely. Definitely looking forward to seeing more what they do. So go check out both of them on Instagram and links are down below for C.J. and as always, it is our intention for you to take these for episode to to your business have more massive success. Subscribe. Hit that notification bell comment below with you learned and we'll see you on the next one.