Using The BRRRR Strategy To Become a Real Estate Millionaire with CJ Calio

Hey, guys, welcome back to the Real Estate Monopoly. My name is Kerwin Donis, and today I have an amazing guest here, CJ Coleo out of Reno, Nevada. CJ Today we're going to be talking about the Brrrr strategy. I'm really excited. That's, I don't want to call it a cliche, but I've just heard about it so much, but I don't think I've actually ever well, I don't think I've ever used it. And I know it's something that's misunderstood and it can be something that people assume is simple, but I imagine it takes some expertise and knowledge to apply the right way and mitigate risk when possible. So to start out, can you just give us some context as to who you are, how you got into real estate, and then we'll dive into today's topic.

Sure. CORIN so our story starts or my story starts almost a decade ago. I was working at UPS as a delivery driver. That was my profession. Born and raised in Hawaii, and that's where I held my, my job then. And I loved it. It was a union job, high pay, hourly rate, didn't need education. Right. Had a lot of benefits and a lot of perks. And it was something that I found that I enjoyed for the money I was creating. And I enjoyed it all the way up until this one particular time of year. And I've already married my wife, we've had kids. And this time of year that people reference in the UPS trade, it's called peak season and it's Christmas. So it's the time that I turn around and I put on that brown Santa suit and I start delivering packages for those that are ordering or, or sending out Christmas gifts to loved ones. And now that was my, my favorite time of year up until this particular season. And why this season was different. And I've nicknamed it the the season from hell. The Christmas season from hell was because we were understaffed, we weren't prepared, we, we were overloaded with work. And I found myself going from a season of joy to frustration, anger, unsatisfied, you know, just really pissed off that I, I was, I was spending all this time delivering packages and not seeing my loved ones. I was working 70 plus hours a week, seven days a week, and I couldn't get time off. I I just, I found myself missing my family and my kids. And it really shifted my perspective on trading time for money. After that season was over, I approached my wife and I asked her a question. I go, look I'm not satisfied with how this Christmas went. I'm not ready to do this for next 30 years. Can I quit? And she surprisingly gave me the green light. Yes, you can. And she asked me one question. How are you going to replace your income? I didn't have the answer. I was stumped. I was all emotional from this six month journey of not seeing them throughout the Christmas season. And I didn't think that far ahead. So she provided a solution to the problem, which is, hey, I've been looking into it. I was just as upset and frustrated as you were while you're working all these hours. I did a lot of research and I found that successful wealthy people have some sort of real estate in her portfolio and she should see. She suggested that maybe we look into buy and hold for cash flow because that could replace our, our income. Our, My income. Well, being the, the loving, supportive husband I was, I basically told her, good luck with that. And I said, I'm not interested. Why? I didn't have any experience in real estate. I didn't know anything about trades or how to fix a house. I came from very minimal educational background. It freaked me out. So instead of accepting the, the new direction that my wife wanted to pursue to support me, I pushed her on her way and said, good luck to you. And instead I went to start businesses. Things that I knew I could do physically or I have experience in like cutting grass and detailing cars and these simple things like that. And the funny thing is, is when you start businesses, it's so true, 9 out of 10 don't make it. And that's what happened. I started a bunch up and none of them made it. And later on in that year, six, nine months later, I found myself just as frustrated, frankly, out of more capital because I invest into these startups that didn't work and just tired. I was just so tired. So I came to the realization that, look, six, nine months later, I failed at multiple attempts. My wife, she's still talking about real estate. She's going to these meetups. I called them cult meetups at the time because I didn't believe in them. She was going to these meetups and getting all these ideas and sharing them with me. And I was like, you know what, what I'm doing isn't working, so maybe what you're doing is going to be something. So I, I reluctantly joined her and went to one of our, my first REH meetups, REI meetups. And I was that husband in the background, unapproachable, arms crossed, don't talk to me, you know, just go, my wife. It's all about my wife. And the funny thing is, is even though I was in a defensive resistance state, the more that I attended these meetups, the more I started to hear and pick up on people's stories around their successes and lessons learned. It wasn't just about the wins, it was also about the lessons. And that's what got me intrigued. These people are doing real estate, they're finding success, they're also going through lessons and learning, and they're willing to share both the wins and the shortfalls. And over time, my pride started to drop and I became more willing to be a student of real estate and started asking questions and to the point we started really talking about doing our first deal, which in a, in a, in a time frame is about a year from when we first got introduced to it. And we went out and bought a turnkey property. Like most, we didn't know what we didn't know. And turnkey seemed to be a simple way to get our feet wet in something we were concerned might not work. Bought something out in the Midwest, sat on it for six to nine months, saw that it was actually cash flowing and making, making us some capital, and then we were hooked from there. And the funny thing is, is as we continue to buy turnkey, I got less excited about turnkey, which is how I stumb the birth strategy. Honestly, I haven't read the book, I just simply youtubed it. And from there I started by taking massive action in team creation and willing to learn and grow along the way. And from there we amassed a large portfolio in a matter of four and a half years, five years, where me and my wife were both able to exit RW2s and do this full time. And since then, you know, part of the. The joys of success is that people want to know what we do and how we did it and. And I fell back into business and I created a mentorship company about five years ago where we've helped hundreds of people learn to do what we do, to have what we have.

That is amazing. I love your backstory. And that's one of the things I really like because we also started in the single family space. And I know you're onto other investments and you've really grown as an investor over time. But a testament that seems to be something you're still encouraging others to pursue is starting in that single family space with the brrrr strategy. And that's something that for a long time we kind of had this stigma against like single family investing. And we're, we're now involved a little more in the single family space with flips and things like that. And so the burst strategy is something that's really exciting and I want to dive into. Can you just start out by defining what the burst strategy is? Explain. Yeah, just like break it down for people who maybe have heard of it but don't really understand what it means.

Yeah, it's an acronym. It stands for buy, rehab, rent, refinance and repeat. And it basically lays out the process of how it could look for you to take limited capital and rinse and repeat it through multiple deals. And I love the name of your show. Monopoly. Right. Because that's what we leverage as a visualization for what the bird does. It helps you to take the same amount of capital when done properly and put it into more properties, hence growing that portfolio, which is what we did in a four and a half year span to achieve our ultimate goal, which was financial independence.

I love that. So can you, I don't know if. Can you just maybe say what the acronym says? Buy, renovate. Just to recap it.

Yep. Buy, rehab, rent, refinance and repeat.

Awesome. Awesome. And so that's something I like. You mentioned that the real estate monopoly, that's the name of our show. For a few seasons we focused on multifamily and larger commercial real estate investing and kind of started steered away from the smaller units to start out. A lot of people in our audience and just honestly we for a long time thought having rentals, it's not scalable, it is almost like a hindrance to long term growth as an investor in the real estate space. Not to say that you're on either end of that. This is more of an open ended question. But what do you say to somebody who has that holdback? They don't even want to start with rental investing. And even us, I mean honestly we're hesitant to get rentals because I'm like, that's hard to scale. I don't really necessarily want to be dealing with tenants toilets and termites. I kind of would rather outsource that. And there's this other conception out there that if you outsource that's going to increase your cash flow. So you won't really cash flow. That'll defeat the purpose of having this rental. What do you say to someone with that mindset?

Well, two things would be back to what's the purpose of investing in real estate? So we always like to reference what's your why? If your why is strong enough, you'll find a way. And and for me, my why was to leave my job. And the way I could leave my job is to replace my income. Could I do that through flipping and wholesaling? Absolutely. There was a lot more risk in the volatility of flipping and wholesaling because I'm looking for my next deal versus accumulation and acquisition of a portfolio where I own these. And now it's more of the stabilization and the flow and the stream of income which for me I was willing to work more on the upkeep. Basically the book you have behind you, who not how. Dan Sullivan is amazing book around this. I am not a property management expert. Will I outsource? Absolutely. Are they worth something? Absolutely. If they keep my property performing and I get my stream of income which allows me to stay financially independent, you're worth that investment. So for me, the thinking around outsourcing and that eating into profits, is that coming from a scarcity mindset or an abundance mindset? How is this opportunity allowing you to focus in on your main goal? Your big why for me was getting on my job. And yes, good team members cost a pretty penny and I'm willing to pay them as long as they perform and they solve the solution of who I need, not how I can do it on my own. Because what I've, what I've seen in at least my sphere of influence and network over the years as we grew is those who stayed hands on to all aspects of their real estate investing, whether flipping or buy and hold out of state stayed small. They just did. I mean we all have 24 hours in a day and how much can you physically do as one person versus somebody who has a team of 10? I'd argue I can do 10 times more with a team of 10 than by myself. And that's the compound effect that comes from shifting to thinking that this is a cost to this is an investment. And that's how I, I like to teach in our space is just shifting the way we speak about things, right? This is an investment, it's going to pay a return. I'm investing in good property management. They're worth the 10% because they produce good tenants that continue to pay rent. Same with agents. They get paid their commission when they find me great deals. Right. It's the investment into a relationship.

I agree with a lot of what you said. I know Robert Kiyosaki defines an asset as something that puts money in your pocket, produces passive income or cash flow. My question to Be more specific and to clarify was regarding the cost that. So yes, of course you have to invest to get something in return. The question I would have, and I imagine a lot of other investors have that hold them back from pursuing these rentals and I'm sure you get from your students, is with a single family rental, it could be more difficult to make cash flow when you're accounting for that property management fee and the expenses associated with them. So is there like an economies of scale involved there where if you have enough rentals that they will like, it'll pencil out at the end once your portfolio surpasses a certain threshold, or is it more so just making sure that your cash flow is at a certain amount, where is enough to cover the property management fees, but also still continue to put money in your pocket every month?

Yeah, I mean that's, that's a great question and it's very investor specific. Everybody's in a unique season. So if you have a lot of capital and you don't, it's not working for you. You might be willing to concede on the amount of monthly cash flow versus this is all I got. I want to make the highest return on it. Right. So back to strategy. And why, why are you investing in real estate? Is it for cash flow? Because what we do there, that's one of the four pillars. And what I mean by four pillars is cash flow is one of the benefits of buy and hold. The other three is appreciation, depreciation, and debt pay down. Those are benefits you don't realize up front. It's realized over time. And the key word in what we do is the buy and hold. The longer you hold, the better off you'll be. Where, when's the best time to invest in real estate? 20 years ago. When's the next best time? Today is if you look at real estate 20 years ago, if you were in our market, you're buying property at $20,000. And in today's market, even with the dip with the interest rates, you're seeing the same house resell for 150,000. So if you could hold it for those 20 years, not only did you realize cash flow, even if it was say, a hundred dollars a month net, you gained that $130,000 in equity by purely keeping it. And somebody's paid down your debt where you probably own it free and clear at that point.

So you're building equity in the property because the debt is being paid down over time.

Yes.

Okay.

There's benefit outside of the, the, you know, cash Flow is the perception of what we want to focus on. It is, it's important and it all depends on your season and where you're at financially, where you're at in life and what your goal is. If you're not looking to quit, maybe the cash flow isn't as important because you love your job. And we work with people that love their jobs that are high paid professions. Cash flow is a benefit or it will leave more of a generational legacy of assets for the next generation. So they can still do what they do, but their kids will inherit a nice portfolio.

Yeah. So there's some things I want to dive into there that you mentioned. But first maybe let's provide an example for a burr that maybe you've done recently or that a student has done just to give someone a more visual example of what this looks like in action.

Yeah. So one of my most recent ones, even though I've moved on in doing larger deals, a deal is a deal, Right. For me a deal is a deal. I'll do a single family home, multi, a large commercial as long as the numbers make sense and I'm getting a decent return for my effort. Right. So this most recent one I just closed on about three weeks ago, it's a small single family home. It's a 3:1 house out in the Midwest that I call it a hybrid brrrr. And the reason why it's a hybrid brrrr is that there's a tenant in place that's under market value with 4 foreknowledge around rehab. I'm going to need to do capital expenditures. So capital expenditures for those who are new are large ticket items that don't necessarily add value to your property but are very important to being good, good repair. So you provide safe living quarters for your tenants. The roof needs work, foundation needs work, the H Vac and the heating and AC unit is out. Right. So these are large ticket items that don't necessarily add value to the the home, it stabilizes it. So what I did is I came in under contract. I offer cash because cash is king right now, especially with rates being high. I offered cash, got a look at the property, did an inspection report, found that there were all these major issues turned around to the seller saying hey, these are safety related issues. I need a reduction of exact exactly that dollar amount. So roof foundation in H vac was able to get them down $20,000. My closing on this property is at 56 000. It is appraisal value or ARV that it could be worth when I appreciate it. Through rehab is 150. It currently rents at 680. Market rents 1200. And that's a. A very typical hybrid burr where I'm not necessarily needing to do a lot of rehab. I just need to take care of the safety issues and I can work with the tenant on getting them up to market rent. Now, roof, H vac and foundation work is going to cost me about 30 grand. I'm all in just under 90 withholding costs, it's worth 150. Even if it appraises at 130, I have no money in the deal. And that's a good visual with numbers on what it could look like. And mind you, I have a lot of experience. So when it's your first deal, you get to understand when you're new to something you may not know. I have a lot more confidence because of the amount of deals I've done and consistently do where I'm up to speed with current market. And I'm also aware of where I can go wrong because there's a lot of things on the rehab part of the BRRRR where you under budget and it actually comes in higher. So do you have contingencies? For me, I'm running 10 grand contingencies on this. Even though I know foundation, H VAC and roof is all I'm doing. Something might come up where there's mold. Something might come up where I need to do some form of exterior drainage for my. For the house. Right. I know this because of all the deals I've done that I. I missed it. I simply missed it. Lessons learned provide me the stepping stones of success for the future.

I. We can relate to that. That idea of developing not just the skills and the knowledge and the. The foundational principles to improve your approach to investing, but also the confidence with making investment decisions not only with your own money, but we also raise capital from investors and we just gain confidence and that allows us to do more deals leveraging other people's money. But you mentioned you're an opportunistic investor, meaning you are able to kind of take opportunities as they come towards you. Is there a certain type of investment property that you encourage people to use the BRRRR strategy with? Maybe particularly at the beginning, like should they just focus on a specific investment criteria when they're first starting out, or does the BRRRR strategy only work with certain types of properties?

No, it can work with everything in my opinion. And it really comes down to the. The support system. Right. So having the right Team members in place is super crucial in the brrrr because you're relying on multiple who's from the who, not how book behind you, multiple who's. You get a good agent, you have a good lender, you have a good GC and a good property manager. If any one of those team members aren't experienced or savvy in your strategy, it can be an amazing deal on paper and it turns out to be a lemon because of a team member. So what my suggestion is, and it really comes down to risk tolerance for a new investor. But for most, their risk tolerance is very low. So when it's very low, my suggestion is temper expectations of what it could look like and shoot for very light cosmetic rehabs. Now, mind you, when you're doing that, everybody is looking at light cosmetic because it's not, it's not as hard as. One of the deals I love to do is fire firehouses, houses that actually had fire set in them and now have dangerous buildings attached to it. Right. But for new investors, that scares them because of the level of rehab. That means there's a lot less eyes looking at that same property and I can come in and get it at a better price than something that just needs paint and flooring. Right. And if you don't have the risk tolerance, that's your buying criteria, something very light and minimal for two reasons, your risk is low, and second, you get to test the relationship with your team members to see if they're capable of growth. One of the biggest things that I see investors get burned on in the burst strategy is the contractor not having consistent rapport, reputation, credibility, experience with that team member. People have lost, and me myself have lost tens of thousands of dollars with bad GCs that just simply took my money and ran because I'm out of state, because I'm somebody that they know. It's going to take a minute for me to fly in to even look for them, which I'm not. And it happens. So having that team member, that trusted relationship comes through progressionary growth. I like to call it proof of concept. Give me a proof of concept on a small deal on small rehab paint flooring. Make sure the communication is good, contracts are in place, payments are done ethically with verification, then I can progressively grow towards larger and larger and larger rehabs until you get to the firehouses, until you get to the rebuilding of a house that has no roof. That's where the major rewards lie, are in the heavy rehabs.

You know, that's such an interesting point to bring up because I agree heavy lifts have the most value added potential and just opportunity to maximize profits there, but it also involves the most risk, particularly on the contractor side if they're not good. And also it demands the most investment upfront in terms of capital. And so we had the benefit. And you obviously probably you're very experienced, so you have the benefit of likely having access to your own capital or being able to raise capital with the established credibility and track record you have. And we coming from a multifamily investing background and now doing some flips on the side, we're able to leverage that background to raise capital from other people, but also access our own capital to inject into these properties. But for an investor who doesn't have that, would that still be the same advice you'd give them to start out with those heavy lifts? And also, how should they approach the financing of these deals when they don't have this track record and it's one of their first investments?

Yeah. When you're new and you don't have guidance from those who have gone before, everything seems overwhelming and hard to undertake, which is why we have, what we have in the program we offer is guidance. We trailblazed it for you. Our, our motto is we are active real estate investors who lead through action and then hold you accountable to achieve your goals. We go first. So what we establish is community relationships. What we establish is rapport on how systems and processes can support you. The book Traction behind you is a big, big thing. Right. Knowing who's in the right seat, who's on your team and is in the right seat. And, and just having these, the these like you're being propped up for success because the hard lifting has already been done. Now it's a matter of what are you willing to contribute to make sure you get the result you want. We like to operate from extreme ownership. Jocko and Jocko Willock and Leaf Ballot, my favorite book, highly recommend. Anybody that's in our program, they, they must read it. It's a requirement. Because the moment you take ownership over everything that happens in your life is the moment you harness the power to change it. Nothing happens to me. It happens for me. And that's a growth mindset. It's a forward movement thinking. Right. That's what I choose to operate from. And with, with what we do, new investors can come in with whatever, no money or a lot of money. They can still get the same result if they're willing to put in the work. You don't really, if you're not willing to put in the work. There's nothing that we can give you that's going to get you to the result because you got to take the action.

Yeah, but what does that work look like? Are you saying you're like if they find a deal, you're willing to connect them with the money?

Nope. They get to create their solution to get their result 100 on their own. Because we're not here to. We want them to be self sufficient.

Okay.

We're not here to give and hand out things. We want to teach you how to do what we do to have what we have. In order to have what I have, you got to be able to do what I've done. And what I've done is I've given you an idea of what can work from there. Find what works for you and then create your own process. Everybody's unique. So like somebody that has a lot of capital won't be chasing raising capital but somebody who has none gets to raise capital of some sort. Right. And it's more of the guidance towards. Okay, here's what we found worked. Not saying it's going to work for you, but here's a starting point. Go and do.

No, I agree. And it seems like you're a believer in like the power of leveraging your network but you have to also go out there and build that network, identify your own strengths, what you bring to the table and then maybe find someone who that complements and that way you guys can work together. And that's how we've done it. We've partnered on people deals with people who could raise money and maybe were good at operations, had construction backgrounds, things like that. We really leverage other people's strengths, identified our own weaknesses and figured out what we could bring to the table. And that's both in the multifamily, in a single family space. Now what is your guidance when somebody isn't really sure where to start with looking for deals? There's so many different philosophies out there. We found deals on market with real estate agents, we found market deal just by going to wholesalers. And we used to do direct to seller but we don't really do that anymore now that we're focused on more just handling the single family flips. But yeah, what is your like 2 cents if somebody just had the grit and the time and maybe could scrap up the money like they don't really know which direction. Is there a certain way you push people or is it just really dependent on how much money they have?

Yeah, I mean, you could do it so many ways. That's the beauty of real estate. There's no one perfect way. It's the way that you're willing to commit to. And we like to use focus as our acronym. Follow one course until successful. So early on in in your journey with us, we'll task you what does success look like? Define it. And from there we reverse engineer it. Okay, what are you willing to do step by step prior to achieving that success? And most end up with, and I'm not saying it's the only way. And most end up with. I'm going to connect with a real estate agent. Why? Because they're easily accessible. There's a lot of them out there and they're hungry to do deals versus going direct to seller. It costs a lot of money and a lot of time. And you get to learn a skill set that you may not be a professional at another who, not how moment. Find the who Agents are readily available and hungry for deals. How do you leverage that and build a relationship with them? To start with your first so on market is, is majority of what people start with. And the other reason why is you have that perception of protection because you have somebody representing you. You probably know this being somebody who's done off market, you're on your own. You get to dot your I's and cross your T's. And if you miss an I and you don't cross a T, it's on you. And that can be a very expensive tuition for a lesson learned.

Absolutely. And there's, I think this tendency to want to go off market because it's perceivably cheaper. And of course there's more risk though, which can end up being more, more costly. So I'm glad you, you brought that up. And so let's say someone is successful in finding an investment opportunity, finding a deal. Another area of risk that we mentioned earlier was the contractor. And the way we've approached it is referrals and asking other people, like who they've used, testing them, figuring out, okay, this person wasn't great, but maybe we can work with them and educate them. I like how you touched on the extreme ownership aspect. We have taken on the mindset of not blaming anyone else, like, oh, they're just not a good contractor. Like, we like to think we just didn't communicate expectations well. And how can we be better at coaching them? Because I think, you know, you're as good as your leader. So with that being said, what advice do you have when it comes to Identifying and qualifying, vetting and working with the contractor. And a good contractor.

Yeah. Makes me think of the quote, there are no bad teams, there are only bad leaders.

Yeah.

So am I working on my leadership skill like you? Hit it. Can I communicate differently? Can I set expectations? One of the big things we harp in, in what we teach is interview, set expectations, come to agreement, record it, have it documented somewhere that this is what we agree to. So now they, your team member can practice extreme ownership themselves. See, the thing is, is when you operate from extreme ownership and your, your team member doesn't, it's very easy to part ways and find a new member because you're just not willing to tolerate that. I'm going to own what I own, and I expect my team members to own what they own. And it's really about finding somebody that you can jive with enough to say, I'm willing to take a shot with you and let's see multiple results before we choose to part ways. Right now there's an extreme to that. Somebody burns the bridge, is unethical, takes my money, and runs instant cutting from the team. But when there's just simple miscommunication, misunderstanding around level of rehab, time frame, you know, these little things you could work through, work through it, give it enough time to, to, to generate a return. What I, what I feel happens a lot in a space of contractor building is people are quick to point fingers at them without trying to explain to them where the misunderstanding could have been and giving them opportunity to own it and adjust. So an example would be is when, when my ace GC I've been working with for seven years now and I continue to work with him. We started off on a $250 fix. Didn't like the way he communicated, gave him expectation on the next one. Hey, can we get more photos? Can we get a video? Can we get befores and afters? And can you call me when you're complete? Yes. Okay, next deal. He did those things. All right, great. Now can we do quality control checks? And we just started adding to the list. We started off with small, easy, and we got more complex to the point where we were able to tackle firehouses, brand new house houses we built up that were pretty much rubble because of those incremental growth steps and holding him accountable, allowing him to adjust. Now, mind you, I got to adjust too, because he wanted payments a certain way. I didn't like it, and I knew it wasn't something I needed, it was something that I wanted. Eliminating the wants and focusing on the needs really serves you in building that long term relationship with your team member. Because they are humans. There are other people that have different perspectives. If you're not willing to at least acknowledge and be open to a suggestion from a different perspective, how are they going to be open and receiving yours? We're in a relationship. It's the business of that connection. And if I can get that deep connection, I can run with these people for a long time. And they're honest and loyal. When you build it property and nothing worth having comes easy, you will go through woes in your relationship. We still do. We have disagreements, we have suggestions that are thrown on the side or accountability parts where we get to have that hard conversation. Hey, remember this is something we talked about. It's happening again. Are we going to nip it in the butt or is this going to be a problem? Having those uncomfortable conversations are required to maintain that healthy relationship.

Yeah, I'm glad you touched on that. And we've covered the buy stage, the renovation, working with contractors. Step next is the rent. I believe and I want to maybe address. Are there any common mistakes people make at this step and what advice do you have when it comes to finding qualified residents to be living in the properties that you're looking for? And I guess this also touches into like what your investment goals are, whether it's the depreciation appreciation or the cash flow. But is that the point where you're kind of having to identify what that goal is and then how does that play out into how you rent it?

Yeah. So renting it's a part where it's a transition you're going from contracted to the next team member, which is your property management. I highly recommend you leverage somebody who's an expert in and not do it on your own. Even if you could just simply save the lease up fees or the 10%, hire somebody that's capable and competent, that's their expertise. But the rent phase goes back to the buy. In the beginning, we're always running and projecting out numbers. It's what we do in real estate and I'm sure you can attest to this too. It's a lot of forecasting and educated guessing on what it could look like when we get to the rental phase. We're now shifting into what did we project out our ranges to be what I operate from our ranges because I am not a fortune teller. I don't know what the future holds and what facts I have at the time. Give me a range I can operate within. So an example Would be is after rehabbing the property, I thought it could rent for $1,000 to $1,200. Now PM comes into the picture and says you can rent it for 1200, maybe 1400. Where do you want to start? Well, that's on the upper end of my range. I have a lot of wiggle room because I was expecting worst case to be a thousand right now. I can adjust according to what their suggestions are. Obviously if I go for 1400, it may take a little bit longer to rent because I'm at the top of the market versus you know what 1200 I worked with that. That was the top of my range. Can we fill it quickly? Yes, 1200 and I can get it filled quickly. I'll concede on 200amonth. And at the end of the day, 200amonth isn't going to get you financial independence. Or at least it didn't get me financial independence on one deal. Now compound that over multiple deals. Yeah, it adds up. And with your experience of doing deal over deal over deal, you have a tendency to be more accurate and more creative in getting the rent rate you want. Not initially on your first one. Understand expectation. You are guessing from the get go. Create the result, then debrief on it.

For the last two refinance and repeat. I saw a real so I kind of want to combine these. I saw a reel that you mentioned. People tend to forget this the last step repeat because that's a part they're fearing and they're afraid of. And to me that honestly I was kind of shocked by that because I would think like doing getting into the deal, even finding one like analysis process is most likely to strike then and then during the renovation period. When you're looking at like you do, there are all these curveballs where you a major expense you weren't expecting which typically maybe not it's not major but oftentimes what you project to spend on your renovation budget is not what actually ends up happening, which typically something you just didn't see. So yeah, I would think like those are the two moments where there's the most fear. But you mentioned how that the repeating end the refinance that kind of goes hand in hand with that is often where people kind of get stuck. Can you expand on an overview of those two steps? What mistakes or missteps people make and maybe. Yeah. What kind of misconceptions you see around that.

Yeah, it goes back to running your numbers. Everything's made in and lost, if you want to use that word on the buy. If you didn't buy right, your refinance isn't going to reflect the results you want. Which then leads to the last R. The repeat becomes an opportunity for most to, to. To check out because of disappointment. And it's back to, you're new at this. How, how accurate. It's like putting my 6 year old up to bat against a major league pitcher. Is he going to hit a home run? Highly unlikely. Is it possible maybe having that understanding that I created a successful result, now I get to go back and get better at it. What can I improve on incrementally towards getting towards that deal where I pull out all my money, which is the epitome of why the brrrr can work. And it takes experience. Will one deal give you enough experience to be able to do that? No. It took me Many, many deals, 10 plus deals to get to the point of being able to do that more consistently. And even then there's a lot I don't control. So we have this saying in the group, control what you can control, Let go of the rest. What I can control on is what I've learned and what I can apply to the next deal. What I can't control is the market, the interest rate, the tenants. Right. Those other aspects that dictate the result. I don't get to control that to an extent. I get to control how I react to it. And for me it's just the, the fear, right? The disappointment and the fear that creeps in. They lose courage. Courage is not the absence of fear. Courage is having fear and aware of it, but still doing it anyway. And most forget that on the refinance and the repeat because they, they feel they failed because they didn't pull out all their money. And it's, it's really bringing it back to that. Okay, you didn't pull it out. Did you get a result? Yes. What Was your result? $5,000 I pulled out. Great. That's better than leaving all the money in. That's a success for your first go around. Now go back and do it again. Let's shoot for that incremental growth around maybe not five next time you're shooting for 10, then 15, then 20 and then all of a sudden you have no money in the deal. Because every time you go back you learn something new, you apply a new strategy, you get better at running your numbers, you get better at managing your team. All these little things equal the end result. Which is why I have this belief the last R is the hardest part is most quit because they didn't create that imaginary home run result. Or if they're the rare few that do have an unrealistic expectation of that's how deals are going to look moving forward. They talk themselves out of every single deal in the future. I've seen both guys that have pulled out all their money on their first go round and guys who left all of their money in. They both end up stuck with the repeat. And that's why I have that saying, the last R is the hardest R. Yeah. On Instagram @wnn properties and just follow us there. We have a bunch of links. You can connect with us if you.

Want and to learn more about your mentorship or your education program.

Yeah. So we have opportunity to come into our community in our space. If you want to learn more about how, how to do brrrr. Invest with little to no capital. That's what we teach and preach. We are active real estate investors who lead through action. So we actually do this and we continue to do this. And if that's something that that draws you into real estate, you want to have a running partner. That's who we are. Connect with us, schedule a call. We can talk to you what it looks like.

I love it. Well, thanks again for being here and thanks everyone for tuning in today to the real estate monopoly. Let's get out there and take action, guys. Have a great rest of your day.