WHAT EVERY PARENT NEEDS TO KNOW WHEN THEIR CHILD GETS IN TROUBLE

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Welcome to this week's episode of the Working Moms of San Antonio podcast. We have a guest on today, Katie. And we're going to turn it over to her to share a little bit about her law work and a little bit about herself. Yay!

Welcome, Katie!

Yes, thank you so much. Yeah, no, I'm excited to be able to chat with y'all. My name is Katie Bortz, and I am a juvenile defense attorney. That basically means that I help kids that are in trouble in the juvenile court process, which in Texas is age 10 to 16. And a little bit of background about me, I moved here back in 2020 from Atlanta, Georgia, where I and my family moved here, and I had practiced law there for about 15 years, and I had my own practice doing the same type of work. And when my family moved here, I knew that I was going to practice law, but I wasn't really sure about, you know, starting my own practice again because it is a lot of work. But I've loved being able to work for for myself. And that definitely resonates— this group, you know, resonates as working moms. Yes, because it's just once you're able to work for yourself and kind of be able to be involved in your kids' schools and be there if they're homesick and just have that flexibility, it's very hard to then go and, you know, find, um, other work. So I was, uh, so I decided when my family moved here that I would go ahead and start a practice here in Texas. And so That's what I've been up to for the past couple years.

And yeah, well, we have definitely have a couple of moms in our group that have moved businesses from one state to another, and that's been a challenge and exciting. You know, how is Texas different from Georgia when it comes to the juvenile courts?

Sure. Well, I, you know, one thing about juvenile work or really criminal defense, which is my background before I started to really niche off into juvenile defense, but is every county is a a little different. So that was the biggest thing, learning, okay, and I kind of joke, like, when I started, like, okay, do I have to wear cowboy boots to court?

No, I'm just kidding.

But I probably do.

Yeah, some do.

You definitely could, because that's really like the law part of it. Yes, well, I had to figure out, yes, there are some different nuances. Texas may call something different, or, you know, the, the spirit of the law is all the same, but it's just those little nuances, like, um, you know, one county may if you are late, that is, you're going to be in trouble, you need to be there 10 minutes early, or there may be a county where maybe they call, they only have one probation officer that you're working with, whereas in one county there might be 20 people in the office. So, yeah, it's kind of getting used to the different nuances for each of the different counties. I would say.

Well, I have to say, probably when I think about, you know, kids and getting in trouble, it'd probably be as a mom, I'd be freaking out. Yeah. Because I have— I was just telling you earlier before the, the podcast, I have boys, and sometimes they're very impulsive and they do stupid shit. Yeah, they just do stupid stuff. Like, why do you do that? But when you do something— girls do stupid shit. They do.

I definitely have some girl clients.

You see, you see some of this stuff, I'm like, what are You thinking, and then sometimes like I didn't realize it was only 10 to 16 and then you had mentioned older than 16, they're kind of an adult. Like I have a, that's wild. I have a 17-year-old. I'm here.

I thought we were adults. Still not an adult, right? That's crazy to be 17 years old and to be considered an adult legally.

Yes.

You know, for some of these things, it's, that's bananas.

Yeah. In my head I'm like, hey, do your stuff now. I can help. I can, you know, be part of it. But no, I mean, 17, if they make a mistake that, you know, or yeah. I don't know. Yeah.

No, I, I definitely, I mean, that's a story for another day.

Yeah.

But I definitely do disagree. Agree with that because, you know, brains don't develop until like, I think it's 25. And there's so many other things you really can't do at 17. But yes, for purposes of the law, if your child were to get in trouble, um, and they were, you know, 17, they would be, you know, going to the adult court process, which the difference with the adult court process and the juvenile process is, um, and this kind of keeps— is it going out or?

Nope. You sound good.

Yeah.

I hear you.

Um, okay. Your headphones, are you, are you—

yours, I feel like I can hear it. It's like a little, maybe pull it away just a little bit.

Oh, sorry.

Yeah, no, you're good. Yeah.

Okay.

Just want to make sure.

No, you're good.

No, you sound perfectly fine now.

Oh, okay. Yeah, so the real difference, there are a lot of differences. The, the, with the adult process, like I said, it starts at 17 and the purpose is more punitive. So it's more on, okay, you're, you did something bad, you're going to be punished. Whereas in juvenile court, it's more focused on rehabilitation. And so a big part of the process is allowing the child to get resources, our therapy, counseling, and just really work with the child to address the issues in that way and to make sure we get the child on a good track so that they don't, you know, go through the process when they turn 17. So yes, while it is devastating for parents sometimes to have to walk through this, and they're worried that their child is going to be just, you know, scarred for life, and it's going to impact their whole future, really, if there is going to be a mistake that's made, having that in juvenile court is a better place to have that mistake because they can learn from it and the, you know, the stakes aren't as high.

Yeah.

So, but yes, parents are very emotional when they come to me. And so I've, I'm a very compassionate person. I have 3 kids of my own. They're, my kiddos are 14, 11, and 8. So I mean, I'm living it and I try to just really, you know, be compassionate and also not judgmental because I know that it's just, it's scary and you're, you know, Feeling like everyone's against you when you're walking through the process. Maybe the school, you know, had bad experiences at the school and then you're hearing from juvenile court and there's all this going on. So I really like to just first come alongside the parent to say, okay, let's just take a deep breath here and, you know, let me help you carry this burden and, um, and just come up with a game plan. Yeah.

So, yeah, I would think in just the, any situation when it comes to your kid and something you're not familiar with, like if it's something you've never gone through, it's gonna be scary. But especially when you're like, oh my God, they're in trouble and they're, and my hands are tied. There's nothing I can do to help them. They're kind of in the system now at this point. So having someone on your side to help you walk through that and maybe have resources to help you would be, you know, I honestly think that scared.

Yeah. That first of all, all of that would be so scary. But then I feel like I would feel judged. Yeah. Like whenever my kids, and they don't get in trouble thankfully to this level. Um, but whenever my kids have gotten in any sort of trouble, I feel like people are like looking at me like I'm a shitty parent.

Oh yeah.

And, and so I would be concerned for my child and then there would be this probably little bit in the backside of me that was like, oh my gosh, what are these people thinking about me? Because my child got into this circumstance.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I, that, and that is, you know, I know that it, it's very sensitive, you know? Sure. So you have to be, it's a very delicate, and so I like to really just let the parent know that I'm there to support them. And one thing I always say is that, um, and I feel like I'm looking mainly at you. I'm, you're good.

Yeah.

Okay.

Okay. Um, sorry.

I'm sorry. I'm in a very, I'm in a, yeah.

Okay. Um, So, one thing I like to say is, you know, this situation happened, and my goal, my true, earnest, honest goal is when you come out on the other side, when this is over, that there's something positive that's going to come out of it. So, you know, whether it be— I've had kids sometimes that change schools, or they decide to try a virtual school, and that actually works really well for them, or they get into maybe a new counseling program, or there's just something that is discovered, or maybe I've had situations where kids have gotten in trouble trouble, and that's been like a way to indicate that they need at, you know, like in a public school, special education services, you know, whether it be behavioral or academic. And so that's been, you know, a way that like had this legal, you know, juvenile situation not happen, they might not have known, oh, well, gosh, we really need to look into this. You know, we need to make sure there's some guidelines in place at school that the school knows about. You know, my child so that these kind of things won't happen again. So I really do try to say, okay, yes, this is, you know, parents are feel like you were saying, like I failed as a parent and oh gosh, what do people think? But really to say, okay, let's use this as like a, I don't wanna say warning, but as just a, a way, you know, because this happened, let's just use this and yeah. Learn from it, you know, as a learning experience, I guess.

Yes. That's really good advice. Mm-hmm. I mean, if you, if you think about it, what's happening is happening, right? We're, we're beyond sort of, you know, no one can go back in, in time. And so if you have to look at a scenario and think, okay, at least this could be a learning experience, or maybe something positive could come out of that, like what's the silver lining in this kind of terrible experience that they're going through? Um, I mean, I think that's the way you gotta look at it, right?

Yeah. I just think the kids today are, have so much, I mean, we, we can't rely on memory or experiences of our own cuz being a teenager, you know, 20 years ago. It's different today. Oh yeah, social media and all the different things and the rules are— I mean, I don't know, things are just different today than it was. So like even them, you know, online bullying, online, you know, harassing, that kind of— what was that? We didn't even have that.

Oh yeah, yeah, we got bullied right to our face.

Yeah, we got bullied, got pushed down the stairs, right? Right.

Yes, it wasn't online.

But you have some— so I'm, I'm very aware of like when my boys are, you know, like, hey, watch what what you put online. Don't record people without, you know, that kind of thing, because you can get into trouble. Yes. There's things that we just didn't have to think about 20 years ago. Yes. Think about now.

No, you nailed it. And that is, I feel like I say that all the time, you can't do the same things, you know, that you used to do. And a big thing I see too is kids saying things that are inappropriate in the climate that we're living in. There's just certain things you can't say, like threatening things. And so I will see kids that are just totally joking. I mean, just, you would never think that this child would do what said, totally joking, messing around. And I have seen very serious, um, consequences in schools because schools just— they can't mess around either. So yeah, they have to fully, you know, investigate these situations. And it, it is really— so that's a big thing. I, you know, my son is 14, and I, you know, will tell him and his friends, I'm like, just, you know, you cannot joke around about certain topics, you know, because our kid— the really sad part is that we are growing up in— or our kids are growing up in a, you know, world where, like, you know, school shootings are just part of our culture. I hate to say it like that, but they're in our— they are like a reality. And so I do think sometimes what I've seen, I've talked to other parents about this, is I think because social media like TikTok and all of the platforms that kids are on, they joke so much and almost kind of almost like their way of dealing with some of these hard issues is to make light of them. And so when kids go to school and they see, you know, on social media that these types of topics are being joked about or made light of, then they go to school and they joke about it, they find— they're going to find themselves, you know, getting kicked out of school and having to go to court. And, um, and the consequences are just really serious.

Well, I also think that the, the— their reliance on social media also help— I don't want to say instigates their feelings on some things, right? They see stuff going on, they see all— and they're stressed out as well. So therefore you have behaviors that are acting out at school that you normally like, what's going on? Like, this isn't normal. But who knows what they've been watching or seeing or, or whatever the case, stuff that we didn't have to deal with when I was in high school or school period.

So, yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

How scary.

It is. It's, and it's something I'm like, I hate to be like, Katie, I hope they never need you.

Yeah.

Yeah. I hope they never need you.

We're glad to have you on.

I'm glad to have you, you know, cuz when it comes to your kids, you feel helpless. Like especially when they're in trouble and they've done something, you can't, like, what do you do? Like you, they have to deal with the consequences and you as a parent might have consequences as well. You know, absolutely. If you, you know, um, and you can't do anything. So are there any resources or something if someone, you know, from our, is going through this and saying, hey, like, I, I wanna help my child and what is the best, I guess, starting point?

Sure. Well, I mean, if, so if they're, you know, if their child is going through something, you know, just to understand, because a lot of times when things happen, there's the process of things going on at school. They're, you know, in a, whether it be public or private school. Yeah. And so you've got that piece of it, but then you have the, court side of it. So, you know, just understanding, you know, the differences and how one, you know, one component, you know, the school side could impact the juvenile side, or statements that you make in the juvenile process could impact the school side. So just kind of keeping track of, okay, what's going on? What are, you know, what is expected of me next? And just really, you know, making sure you understand where you are in the process, of course. And I'm always happy to, you know, answer questions if parents ever, you know, have questions because there are kind of critical timelines where you want to make sure that you are be— it's hard because you want to cooperate and you want to, you know, make sure that you are cooperating with the school, the juvenile process. Yeah. But at the same time, if your child is facing, you know, consequences, you want to be careful how you cooperate.

So, you know, yeah. Cause they don't have your best ability, you know, their best interest. They're representing somebody else.

Right.

If it, if it's something involved with school, the school's gonna have the school's interest in mind, right? They're, they're representative. They're gonna have, you know, whatever the case is. So like kind of in our line of work, we always say, hey, you need to have someone representing you. Totally. That has your best interest in mind. So you as a parent, you as a, even the child need to have someone representing you who have your best interest in mind, not the schools, not the third party or whomever it may be. Exactly.

Yeah. Someone to advocate because the, the problem is a lot of times this, the juvenile process, they're not gonna know the child. Yeah. They're not gonna know, okay, hey, this is a kid who he actually is on a soccer team and he's a Cub Scout and his parents are, you know, involved in his life. He just did something stupid, but that, you know, they're just seeing the one stupid thing versus the whole picture. So that's another thing that I like to do with the families that I work with is just help them, whether it be, you know, letters or documentation or just build, you know, a file. I call it like a Good Guy evidence file, but just a way to share, hey, this is the kid and there's more to, there's more to their story. That's, you know, this is who they are. And so that's helpful. That kind of gives parents sometimes in the beginning something to start working on and assisting me with. But really, you know, yes, you're exactly right. There needs to be somebody who's advocating for the child and their, their perspective and not, you know, like you said, the school. And I think with the parents, they have, of course, the parents are the natural advocate for the child. So they're naturally going to want to do everything they can for their child. But they may not necessarily have the tools when it comes to the exact juvenile process and the the exact county that they're in and how the system works, or whether it be a public school or private school on the school side. And so that's where I like to say I could come alongside, or, or any, you know, attorney that's focused on working with kids and families to be the, to, to be that advocate. Because the, while the parent is still an advocate for their child, they just don't have the tools to advocate in that way.

I'm gonna come off as mama bear. Like I, I'm gonna be completely emotionally driven on how I react.

Yes.

So having someone there with, not emotionally driven, right?

Yeah.

But have, you know, you using your cognitive abilities to make decisions cuz I'm just gonna come off emotional. Yes. And it's not gonna go anywhere.

Yeah.

So having someone on there to help with that would be great.

I wonder, do, and I wouldn't know how to handle a school situation like that, and I'm sure many parents don't, but I am as a person, like an, an avid rule follower. And so I think I might be more inclined to, cooperate with whatever the school says. And I wonder if maybe you might have had some circumstances where maybe all of that cooperation actually wasn't in your client's best interest.

Yeah, sure. That, that's a really, um, great question because yes, you're exactly right. It's a delicate situation because you may have, you know, your one child going to the school, but they might have siblings. So you don't wanna go in there just like hardcore, you know, aggressive, but at the same time, if you think maybe something's unfair, you know?

Yeah.

But. So you might be more inclined to just go ahead and, you know, have your child, you know, say, okay, fine, we'll agree to, to go to the dis— alternative, you know, disciplinary school for 60 days where, you know, maybe if you had dug a little deeper, you might have been able to minimize that. Or, you know, maybe your, your child, you know, gives some statements that are then used against them, you know?

And so, uh, I think that's what my fear would be, would be like saying to, you know, see all these shows where like people need to get their lawyers, right? Like, it's like, don't say anything until you get the lawyers. I mean, I don't know how real that is, but Yeah. Um, you know, and so I think I would be worried that in cooperating too much, you may say things that could be not helpful to you.

Yep.

Um, but then you also, me, I would err on the side of like, oh my gosh, these people are authority and like, right. These are their rules. Yes. And like, what do we do? You know?

Yes.

And that would be super tough.

Yes. It, it would be cuz you don't know. I mean, you wanna trust your, you typically there's a situation you physically the parent are not there.

Yeah.

You have to take the word of the child and see what their, you know, their situation. You have a third party that's involved typically or something. You don't know what's going on.

Yeah.

So you have everybody, all this information and you're trying to, I'm like, I'm gonna trust my child.

Right.

You know, sometimes the child did the stupid stuff.

Right.

Yeah.

You know, but sometimes the school gets it wrong, I would assume, you know?

Sure.

They're not always right. There could be more parties and, but then again, you have, now you have the, the social medias and the videos and the, all the things that happen. You know, if I had to assume would be involved, you have all these other things that you can use for, you know, help. But I, me as a parent, I'm not gonna listen. I'm gonna come in and I'm gonna defend my child, like off the back. I'm gonna, I know my kid. Yeah. So I would like to have someone in my corner to say, calm down, let me talk for you.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And you know, to your point, you know, there is a way, and it is, it's that delicate fine line that you're walking between saying, oh yeah, I'll do anything you say. And oh my gosh, uh, I'm freaking out.

Yeah.

Versus saying, hey, respectfully, I need a moment to sit back and figure out what's going on. I need to talk to my family. I need to talk to my child, and this is moving really fast and I just need a moment. And I think as long as a parent is respectful and just, you know, coming to the table and yeah, just really respectful is the word in a positive way, then that's gonna go, you know, that's gonna work a little bit better. But again, it's delicate because you want to also let them know that, hey, this is my kid and I'm gonna advocate for them.

Sure. Yeah. Are parents in your experience often granted that moment to take a step back or are like, Or is it a situation where the school's like, nope, this is what we're doing and you know, like it? Or, or cuz we kind of mentioned on out there, um, before we came in here to do this podcast, like I've heard parents say that the school will say things like, well, once they're on school grounds, like they don't have normal rights like you would normally have, which scares me.

Mm-hmm.

Sure.

Um, and so I wonder how much time, and I'm sure it's case by case, but I wonder how much time is really even given for you to have those conversations and thoughts, right?

You know, and that's true cuz in the heat of the moment, sometimes parents aren't even notified. Sometimes things are just moving really quickly and And that's understandable sometimes, and just given the nature of a situation, an investigation has to be done quickly. And it's not that the school is just totally, you know, keeping the parent in the dark, but it's just there's a lot going on. So that's where I think it's important for parents, like, to have conversations prior to, you know, any situations happening and just letting their children know to be respectful, but also to be careful at, you know, when they're asked to give a statement or anything like that to, you know, ask the school if their parent can be there and just request that. Now, the school doesn't always have to do that, but to really just to, to let our kids know that, you know, you have to be careful with how you explain things. And, um, you know, you could certainly ask— I mean, you could ask for a lawyer even, but, you know, I don't know if that would always— in a school situation. But definitely asking. I always just say, you know, just ask for a parent if something like that is going on.

And so I don't think I ever had that conversation with the Like, hey, if something ever, ever happened, ask for mom or dad to be there. Like, I've never, yeah. Cause I've, yeah.

I mean, to be quite honest, if like police aren't supposed to interview someone without a parent present if they're a minor, like why would a school be allowed? You know? I mean, I get it. The rules are different and all of that stuff.

Yeah.

But like in a, in a situation where someone's getting in trouble, like why wouldn't you allow a parent to be there?

Sure. Yeah.

That part feels weird to me.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, and I know that there's also, like I said, they're looking out for the safety of the school and the integrity of an investigation and trying to, you know, put all the pieces together. And maybe sometimes it's not even, you know, as far as a school goes, it's not, you know, intentional. It's just so much is coming at once. And so that's why I think it's important. I think if a school, you know, wants to follow the best practice and to talk to a parent, but sometimes it's just there's so much going on. And so that's why it's important to let a child know that it's not— I'm not saying across the board, should not cooperate. It's not really about cooperating, but again, it's about understanding, whoa, what's going on? You know, a child may not even know what they're being accused of, what they're even giving a statement about, you know.

So, well, I think there's just so many different parties that can— I mean, there's so many situations that you can— they're now jumping up in my head, like, what about this? What about that? What about this? You know, and I, I can think of a situation my, my son had his very freshman year, our first time at the school, all-boys school. Boys do dumb stuff, like just dumb stuff. And he came to the car and he's like, hey Mom, I gotta tell you something, this is what happened.

I'm like, what?

Like, wait, wait, wait, wait, say that again. He's telling me like what happened, but the school hadn't called me, nothing had happened. It was an incident in the locker room, he got into a little scuffle with somebody, he and the little young man got hurt or whatever the case is. But I'm like, why didn't the school call? But they wanted to give him an opportunity to share. He's like, hey, I'm gonna have detention on a Saturday, blah blah blah, I got just some, you know, whatever. And I'm like, it— when I thought about it, and actually I'm like, hey, this could have been great. Like, he got into a fight, a physical altercation with someone. If they wanted to, they could have gone further. And it scared the bejesus out of me. Like, it really, really— now the school was very kind of like, hey, it was on both parties were at fault, they both had the same, you know, like, we're just gonna, we're gonna monitor and help with the relationship. And it did. They did— the school did a wonderful job. So they didn't go that further because it wasn't horrible, but it could have gotten that. Sure.

Yeah, I've definitely seen situations like that, or when maybe the parent of one of the other children is just really upset and they'll say, yeah, we do wanna press charges. And then that can change the whole, the whole trajectory.

Although the family was upset, they did reach out, you know, and, and it was, it was a little uncomfortable for the first couple of months of dealing with the school. But at the end of the day, it worked itself out, which I'm grateful to.

Oh yeah.

But at the end of the day, like it could have turned into wor— but I would've, I had never, when I thought of my, I'm like, I'm like, you don't— he did— it wasn't— it was out of his personality. Like, what happened? So when I got into the details of it, I'm like, whoa, this— there's some other issues on the other— on the other child, right, that could have— he caused some of this stuff. So it's kind of back and forth, and I really— it was just uncomfortable. But the school, I thought, handled it well. But they did not call because they wanted to allow him to give me the information. Like, they didn't feel it was in that dire—

sure—

stress. But I felt like, hey, this had the other family acted first or, you know, do we need to act first? That kind of thing.

So yeah, it could have escalated.

It could have escalated.

It could have been a situation where, yeah. So I love hearing though that it was kind of mediated and that both kids were able to kind of take responsibility.

Yeah.

And that's a positive thing too. When I was in Georgia, one of the courts, the larger county did have like a mediation, uh, option where you could kind of mediate before it went to court. And I think, I wish that there was something like that here. Because not every case is, you know, going to, you know, be appropriate for that, but there are situations where both parties can just— sometimes people just want to be heard. And so, to be able to just tell your story and to figure out, "Okay, what's the best outcome? This doesn't need to mean someone's ending up on probation or, you know, we're having to go through a whole court process, but hey, what can we do, you know, to work out this informally?" And actually, research really shows that a lot of the more informal, the diversionary court programs, which are not in the court, actually have better results than, you know, so.

It's interesting to me that that's not like a mandated thing for something as important as our children.

Right.

You know, like, I mean, it is in real estate. So when you sign a real estate contract to buy a house, you sign something that says, hey, if things go, you know, squirrely, we both agree we'll do mediation before we, you know, sure. Get legal action involved. Yeah.

Yeah.

And so, and that's just to buy a house, you guys. That's like not our kids. And so it's crazy to me. That that's not like a thing that is like, hey, if these children get involved in some kind of a situation, mediation should take place first.

Yeah, that does make sense, but we don't do things sensible these days.

This is Texas stuff.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. How interesting.

Well, it would, but I guess, I don't know, it's very emotionally driven, but buying a house is emotionally driven as well. We've seen those go kind of cuckoo. But yeah, I think, you know, as a parent who could have had a situation, I think, you know, for— oh my God, 4 years ago— that I'm like— and again, it was totally out of character for him. It was something he's never done. Like, what happened? And when he explained to me, I'm like, I can see why he reacted that way. And if someone wouldn't have listened to his side of the story, he would have been ultimately at fault. Sure. Ultimately at fault. Like, wait, wait, there's something that led up to this that caused the situation. Yeah, that's just not him. Them, you know. And the coach did too. It was— the coach got involved, principal got involved. They talked, they talked it through. The other boy immediately, I shouldn't have done what I did, I, you know, like kind of thing. And so they both got punished, they both had detention, not a big deal, we moved on. But again, had the parents gotten, you know, upset and pressed charge, like it would— yeah, but not, not fun.

Yeah, well, I mean, you know, we've been in circumstances not where I don't think anyone could have pressed charges, obviously, but I mean, we've been in circumstances where I have gone to parents because of different which we have girls, so it's a little less physical fighting and a little bit more just like emotionally killing you. But, um, so we've had circumstances where I have gone to parents and been like, hey, I'm, and you know me, I'm not the kind of gal that's like, my child can do nothing wrong. No, my kids do things wrong all the time and I'm the first to be like, hey, stop it.

Yeah.

Um, but I went, I've gone to parents and they are so quick to put it on my child and their child has never done a single thing wrong. And you know, She farts butterflies and it's like a whole thing.

Right, right.

There you go. Yeah.

No, it's like, okay, no, your, your kid is being an ass. And I have, I've even had like proof, like texts and texts and texts.

Yeah. Yep.

And they're like, nope. And so I can only imagine that when things get to the level of legality.

Yeah.

That there are parents that are coming in there and like you said, who gets to the, who gets to the authorities first? Right. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. And, and that is a concern.

Yeah.

There are parents like that.

The other parents on my end were attorneys.

Oh boy. Well, there you go.

Yeah.

They know all the things.

They knew all the things. And it was very— I'm like, whoa. And when they, you know, at first it was corals, like, hey, this happened. I'm sure, you know, I, I said I take a grain of salt from each. There's some story, there's some proof or some truth in both stories. There's some lies in both. So we'll take, you know, go in the middle. Exactly. And the, the father found me outside of the school, found me some at a different location, and, and approached me when my husband or kids were not— like, I was in front of other people, but Nobody was in my corner, if that makes sense. Yeah. And I had to keep my cool.

Yeah.

Cause man, I wanted to clock him.

Well, that was very obviously on purpose.

It, well, it was, and it ended, like I said, it, it ended. It wasn't, he, you know, at the end of the day, I'm, I went through, but I would've not known what to do. Sure. Had they, you know, had the school, like I said, the school did reach out after the fact, gave my son the opportunity to share. Like, he's like, should I tell my mom? Uh, yeah, you need to talk to your mom, your dad. He came home, we had a conversation. Told him it was completely wrong. Never put your hands on someone.

Yeah.

I understand why, but at this point you can't do that. We talked about it, but I would've never, like, I, I would've known what to do had that happened, you know, gone any further.

Yeah, absolutely. And it sounds like for your son, that is such a positive way to learn that lesson and hopefully that will really stick with him. Yep. And so, and that's again what I try to tell parents, you know, even if it gets to the process of juvenile court, court. And a lot of things are dealt with not necessarily in the courtroom, but more informally. The probation officers in juvenile court play a big role, even though a child may not be on probation. The Juvenile Probation Office does a lot of the investigation and really looks into the family to say, okay, what's going on? And so a lot of times, that's really as far as it will go, you know, working with a probation officer. But yeah, sometimes it will head into the courtroom. And I do try to let the parent parents, you know, know that this is, if you're going to learn a lesson and you're going to have to go through the process, it's so much better that it's happening in juvenile court and not in, you know, when they become, when they turn 17.

Yeah. But heads up, juvenile stops at 16.

Yes.

Anything after 16, you're in danger. Yeah. No more stupid stuff. Yeah. Can't do stupid stuff.

You gotta learn by that time.

But it's hard.

Like we said, that's just so crazy. Well, I think to have that expectation, I think of children knowing the boy and like what I see on social media.

People are just so impulsive these days. Like, they don't stop and think. Like, stop back. Like, it's really emotionally driven, just people's reaction to anything.

Yes.

Look at them sideways, yeah, not good. So we have to teach patience. We have to teach some grace. And I tell the boys, like, hey, like, my son's now driving, so I'm like, if they cut you off, let it go, right? Yeah, let it go. You don't know what that other person's doing on the other end. You never know what their day's like or what they've been through, whatever the case is.

Or if they have a gun in the car, right?

Exactly.

We're in Texas.

Right. You know, I'm just saying like, so we have to, you know, let someone had a bad day, says something to you, get walk off. Like, I mean, we have to get better at that. And it's just, it's hard. It's very hard. Yeah.

It is hard being a parent. I mean, for sure. And I feel like, you know, a lot of what I'm talking about parents and when I'm talking to people in the community, you know, there's so much like, oh, I hope I don't need you. And oh gosh, that's That's, you know, scary. But yeah, I also try to encourage parents. So I've done a lot of like written some articles and blogs and things on the power of having dinner together as a family.

Yeah.

So that's kind of like a positive thing that I like to put out there, um, to the parents that I work with, to any parent. Um, it's really fascinating how I, I could say our family's pretty guilty of not, you know, doing this. Uh, we, we definitely don't do this as much as we should, but when you sit down and eat dinner as a family, there's actually research that shows that it really family can just do very positive things for your family, for kids, as far as like getting in trouble or not, you know, they're not as likely to get in trouble. They make better grades. I mean, all these wonderful benefits. So I try to, you know, um, encourage families to just, you know, be together as a family, eat dinner, even if it's like once a month, but, uh, it doesn't have to be dinner, you know, but, um, so I try to encourage families, you know, that are in the community and just to be a positive, um, even though, you know, parents may not that, you know, need my assistance. I like to just, you know, provide resources and help. And that's one of the things that I think is really cool.

No, I think that's great.

Yeah.

I think it's also when you have some conversations and you might hear, hey, XYZ's been happening. You're like, wait, wait, say that again?

Yeah.

Like, and you can help them work through that. Right. Like, hey, you need to go see a counselor. You need to go see authorities at the school. Let's talk about, or maybe you can help step in before something happens.

Absolutely.

Yeah. You know, that's when they'll share like something slip. Right. Especially teenagers.

I was gonna say, especially the teenagers.

Teenagers.

It's not always a direct thing, but they'll make a little comment and then you're like, oh, wait, what was that? Yeah, say it again. Okay. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah.

Or with teenagers, especially the boys, you know, sometimes in the car where you're not really looking at each other, you know, that's always a place where sometimes— so yeah, it doesn't have to be at the dinner table, but just—

or 11 PM at night when you're trying to go to bed and they want to have a conversation, right?

Yeah, for sure.

It could be worse. They wouldn't— what if they wouldn't want to have any conversation?

It's always right when you're ready to go to bed. But yes, but having the, the talks around the table, and sometimes we have, we have on re— like repeat just shows that we watch. Right. And it, it brings up topics, so we end up talking about it at the table when we eat dinner. Yeah. So just random stuff.

Yeah. That's a good tip though.

Yeah.

We also don't eat together as much as we should now that they're getting a little bit older and they're at sports and right. You know, church and all the different things that are happening. Yes.

Um, but yeah, it's good to have dinner. That's a great tip.

Yeah.

Yeah. It's a great, it's a great tip. Have dinner together as a family.

Well, is there anything else that you can think of that you wanna share with our audience specifically?

Um, let's see. I mean, you know, like I had addressed earlier, if a parent does find themselves in a situation, you know, like I said, it's just so important to try to— because one of the things that parents do is they will go online and they will just start, you know, doing all this research. And it is very scary, you know, what you can read, because a lot— it's not always accurate. There's so much information out there.

We love that ChatGPT tells us all the things.

Oh yes, come on. I know, I know. And, and And that's fine. I mean, I think it's inevitable. I mean, you know, you're going to do that. But I would just say try to, you know, minimize that a little bit because like I touched on a little bit before, every, you know, county, we're in a big metro area. So, every county, every little pocket, every different, every court and school is going to have different nuances, different things going on. So, you're really, the information you find may not even fully apply to what's going on. So I don't want, you know, parents to freak out and think worst case scenario, but to really, um, just, you know, it's also an opportunity to come together as a family and talk to your child and, you know, try to get a feel for what's going on and, and really kind of look beyond, you know, just the situation. But what can we do? You know, can we eat dinner as a family or go, you know, volunteer or do something? Or can we, um, look at, you know, does my child maybe need to be evaluated for special education services, or just kind of use it as a wake-up call in a way. But it does— that it doesn't— I guess my, my advice would be to, um, to try to, to really look for the positive, as I said earlier. And so to try to— I mean, I know that's hard in the moment, and, and maybe that's not even the upfront advice to look for the positive, because that's not— that's that's probably impossible in the moment.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

But to understand, yeah, to understand that something, you know, that the goal is to learn from the process. And so to kind of have that perspective, uh, but I know it's hard.

And so, yeah.

Well, just knowing that there's somebody that can be an advocate for you if you do get into that situation, not just for you as a parent, but you, your child. Absolutely. That when you feel defenseless, there's someone there that can support you. Yeah. And let's give you the resources and, and, and be, be there for your kid. Absolutely. Because a lot of these situations as a parent, like I said, I know personally I, I would just react with emotion and get upset.

Yeah, I would too.

I mean, you know, screaming and defend them, but right, it's probably not the right way of doing it.

Sure, there's a way to go about it. And I'm always happy to talk to parents if it's not, because not every situation needs a lawyer, you know, to come to court or to come to school. I mean, a lot of times I'll coach parents, you know, to say, well, these are some things you need to make sure you address, but I think you can address it on your own, own, or, you know, here's an, here's some options, you know? So I'm always happy to talk through options cuz ultimately, I mean, we don't wanna like, you know, be putting our child in a situation where we're having to go to trial. I mean, heaven forbid, you know, something really intense. We want to try to come up with some solutions that are going to make sense and that are gonna be practical. And so, um, so yeah, I'm always happy to coach parents through that too, even if they don't need to, you know, bring me with them, you know?

Sure.

Yeah.

No, that's great. Um, will you share with our listeners, uh, how they can get a hold of you should they need those services from you?

Sure. No, absolutely. So I'm, I'm online. I mean, my website, so my last name is Bortz, that's B-O-O-R-T-Z. So it's, my website is just Bortz Law Texas. And, um, I'm on Google, I have a Google Business Profile. And what else? I'm LinkedIn and Facebook. So I'm on the social media. So really any of those ways, um, um, would be great. Best way to get ahold of you.

Okay, perfect. And we'll put all that in the show notes so people can click around and, and find you should they need to.

Appreciate that.

Um, and thank you so much, Katie, for being on.

That's great. It's definitely a topic we haven't had and so much great info. Yeah, great info just to know.

Yeah, absolutely. So thank you guys for allowing me to, to come talk.

And welcome to Texas.

Yeah, thank you. No, I love it here. The Hill Country I always say it really speaks to my soul.

So, oh, I love that. Well, we're glad to have you here.

Yeah. Um, and then really quickly too, I will just quickly thank our listeners for tuning into this week's episode and we'll catch you guys next time.

See you guys next week.

Thanks so much for tuning into this episode of the Working Moms of San Antonio podcast. We hope you loved today's chat and found a little inspiration to take with you into your week. If you have a podcast topic suggestion or a question you'd love for us to cover, definitely send us an email at hello@workingmomsofsanantonio.com. We'd love to hear from you. And until next time, see you in the community.