Conversations that Drive Global Sales Growth with Grace Preston

Welcome to the Global Sales Mentor Podcast for conversations that drive growth. When you are ready to grow your international sales, join the conversation with your host, Zach Selch. Welcome back. Conversations that grow international sales. Thanks for joining us. I have here a friend who has been a friend of mine for a very, very long time, Grace Preston, who is an international sales leader, and she knows what she's doing, and she really understands this whole stuff, and it's always fun to have somebody who knows what they're doing on. And, and we've known each other for years and done a lot of different cooperations. We've never actually worked in the same company and we've never actually competed, but we spent a lot of time at the same trade shows dealing with the same people. We've shared distributors over the years. So anyway, welcome Grace. Thank you so much for joining us.

Hey Zach, good morning. Thank you so much for having me. And it's okay to say that we're old friends because we are old friends.

Yeah, I have a friend who's my, the longest friend I've had. We met when we were about 3 or 4 and we still stay in touch occasionally. We're not really close, but we still stay in touch. And every time on her birthday, I'm thinking, I really hate saying to my oldest friend, 'cause, you know, people don't necessarily wanna hear that, but that's what it is, right? We've been, we've been old friends for, for a long time now. I wanna say going on 15 years at least, right? Anyway, welcome. And why don't you tell everybody a little bit about yourself?

Sure. Well, as you said in your intro, I am an international sales professional. I've spent my entire career kind of building up from the inside to the outside. And now many years down the road, I'm happy to say that I've been successful in my international sales career thanks to a lot of friends like yourself. I'm currently working for a company called Optum, O-P-T-I-M. We make flexible endoscopes for use in healthcare, in industrial applications, and security applications. So basically on the healthcare side, we sell our scopes to ENT doctors. And my favorite joke is to tell people we do the top, not the tail. So we don't sell endoscopes that go elsewhere in the body, just up, kind of up the nose, the nasal cavity into the larynx box, that type of thing. So we do that for healthcare. And then on the security side, we sell to Customs Border Patrol agencies around the world to look inside cars.

I hope you don't do the tail on that side.

Don't do the tail on that side. Absolutely not. So mostly to look into cars, vehicles, boats, that type of thing, where at border crossings people will try to hide either drugs, money, or weapons. So I split my time kind of between those 2 verticals. And then to a smaller degree, we also sell scopes into industrial applications. Right now I'm working with several automobile factories in Mexico that do engine casting. So they use our scopes to inspect the inside of engine castings to look for imperfections. And things like that. So, um, it keeps me quite busy. Obviously we've had quite a challenge over the last year as you and I are both road warriors. So we found ourselves in our home offices a lot more and trying to reinvent how we do business internationally. So that is myself in a nutshell.

Very cool. And maybe tell us a little bit about how you got into this.

Oh, okay. So, um, back in the day, since we are old friends, Back in the day, there was never an international business curriculum in university or college.

And I'm not sure there is today either. Yeah. But go on. Yeah.

So, so I think now you find folks that, that kind of major in international business or something like that. Back in our day, there was no such thing. So I was on the track to go to law school and I had done a liberal arts degree at the University of Connecticut and I was on my way, going to go to law school. And I came out of the University of Connecticut with a degree in political science focused on international relations. And I decided I didn't want to go to law school.

Yep.

So what do I do? So I thought, well, I want to kind of get into this international business thing. So I started working for a company in their international business division, international division on the inside, doing contract administration and sales operations, that type of thing. And then eventually worked my way out.

Yeah. And that's not an uncommon way. I know a lot of people who started because there isn't really a set path, right, for getting into it. So pretty, pretty common. And you have, again, it's sort of funny. Everybody seems to have some type of an international family background when they, when they get into this. So you have an international family background, right?

I do. Um, both my parents immigrated from Lebanon. My parents were born and raised in Beirut, in the north of Beirut, and they immigrated to the US in the mid-'50s. Um, so I am one of 6 children that my parents had. I was born in the US, but I have 2 siblings that were actually born in Lebanon. So I was, brought up in an Arabic family.

Right. And do you ever converse Arabic in business? I know the answer to this, but I'm just asking for the viewers.

So I don't. One of the biggest regrets that I had is at the time that my parents immigrated, we wanted to integrate into the American society. My dad was very proud to be an immigrant.

Like a lot of immigrants, right? Yeah.

My dad was very proud and very happy to be in the land of opportunity. And we didn't wanna be different. We wanted to be Americans. So my biggest regret was that my parents didn't force us to speak Arabic. We spoke it in the home. My parents would speak a combination of English, Arabic, and French, but the response was always back in English. So I, I tell people now when I'm immersed in the Middle East, I can understand Arabic, no problem. But conversationally, I don't really speak it, but I can understand it fairly well.

But, and you don't have to put a number on this, how much business have you done in the Middle East without speaking Arabic?

So I do a lot in the Middle East. Right.

And I always say to people, it's great to have languages, but that isn't what What should hold you back from getting into international sales, right?

Absolutely. So when I, when I first embarked on this career, I had a lot of folks that told me that I could not get into this field because there were a couple factors. Um, one, I didn't really— I wasn't really proficient in a second language. I didn't have any second language capability, you know. And again, I hate to kind of say this, but because I, I am a woman in really a male-dominated area, you know, there was that strike kind of against me.

Yeah.

And, you know, those 2 things coupled with lack of experience, I had a lot of people tell me no. I couldn't do this type of career.

And you're successful, right? We've known each other. You're very successful at what you do. I'll tell you my take on the woman thing, right? I think this is my take as a, you know, middle-aged white cis guy, right? So I might not have a vote in that, but I believe that in very masculine markets where the culture is very masculine, having a woman very often is actually an advantage because I feel this is my personal opinion from the side. I feel that where distributors might argue with me just over a whole well, I'm the alpha. I don't want to. I don't want to accept what you say point of view. Very often, it's a lot harder for a really for a guy who grew up in a very masculine culture. It's a lot harder for him to argue with a woman, right? And I think sometimes in the trainings, I prefer to have a woman do the trainings because I believe they're going to get better attention and less. pushback from the audience. That's my feeling.

Do you—

what do you think of that theory?

Yeah, I mean, I, I've had only a few occasions where, you know, it was awkward, so for lack of a better word. But, you know, I think for the most part I've been able to connect with people, whether it's because I am female or not, or, you know, um, I don't really know. Is it my personality? Is it my gender? I, I can't tell you, but I've never really had a situation where I've gotten a lot of pushback. A couple times here and there, but I think mostly it was cultural for certain— with certain cultures. But, you know, I've always found a workaround, so it's never held me back, I guess, is the best way to put it.

Yeah, I would say that I can't think of a situation— and I've worked with a half dozen women over the years in these type of roles— I can't think of a situation where I said, boy, it was a mistake to bring a woman, or boy, it was a mistake to put a woman in that job, even if people think it's going to be a problem. I have a woman now working with Iran and Afghanistan, right? think those are the markets that are going to be the most problematic, and they're not, right? You go to Saudi Arabia, women in the Ministry of Health, right? So you just have to know how to do it. But, but I don't see any market or any position where there's a definite downside to having a woman in the job, as far as I'm concerned.

Yeah, I, I think things are changing, and, and we— you and I have discussed this in the past before, right? Especially, you know, in certain countries, especially the Middle East, right? You know, they love American companies and they love American products. A lot of them have been Western educated, right? So anybody with any decision-making capability has been Western educated.

Exactly. And if they spent, you know, 4 years at the University of Michigan, they're perfectly comfortable talking business with a woman, right?

Exactly, exactly. So, so what I feel is that I'm welcomed as a representative of an American company.

Right.

So that's, that's how they see me first and foremost. And I am their connection to the American company. And, you know, so I enjoy the role. I enjoy, I guess, the play back and forth with my male counterparts. Right. And I don't offend easily, I guess.

Look, I think, you know, I think when you're dealing internationally, you can't offend easily, right? Because there are always going to be— I encounter antisemitism all the time in different places. Right. And I look at it like I'm there serving my company, creating jobs for my manufacturing people, I can't take anything personally, right? So you do have to be a little thick-skinned sometimes. But the bottom line is very often these things that might offend us are not done with malice. They're done just because they're part of the culture and people are very used to it. You know that, and that, that's part of international business. You know?

I mean, every culture has a bias and, you know, whether we talk about it or not, every culture has a bias.

That's definitely, definitely true, right? That's, that's, that's the world, right? So talk about maybe like, what was the most interesting sale you ever made?

Oh, you're putting me on the spot.

I want to hear some funny stories. Yeah.

Gosh, now you're totally putting me on the spot. I, I hadn't even thought about that. You know, I, I think, um, like you, I enjoy the relationship building, and a lot of times it's In international business, very rarely do we have a sale that happens like that. It's usually—

Oh yeah.

It's usually a long-term process, you know, a long-term building that relationship.

Right.

And especially if you deal with any infrastructure or government agency, it could take years. It could take years.

Yep.

So, you know, I think for me, that whole process, you know, of building the trust, of building the relationship is very interesting. My family always laughs when I come back from some of my trips and I tell some stories. And one of the most recent ones was, I guess, the last time I was working with a certain distributor in Abu Dhabi, we were working on a military base. And that is always fascinating to me because I get to see what goes on behind the curtains. And, you know, it's very unusual.

Right.

So this was an interesting story where we were working with an agency in Abu Dhabi for our security products. And basically I was told, hey, you're going to get picked up at 8 o'clock from your hotel. I'm like, okay, don't know who's picking me up, but somebody is going to pick me up. You know, I have this attitude of, you know, I just kind of go with things, right? Whatever. I don't, I don't freak out. I just go with things. So I get picked up at my hotel by some driver. He takes me, we're driving to Abu Dhabi and he pulls off the side of the road in the middle of kind of like the desert. Right?

Right.

And he's like, well, we're just going to wait here for so-and-so to show up.

Right.

I'm thinking, okay, you know, like what's going to happen here? So about 45 minutes Later, so-and-so shows up. Get in the car. So I get in the car and he goes, okay, you know, we're gonna go to this military base and, uh, you know, you're gonna have to go in separate because you don't have clearance. I have clearance. So we go to this military base in the middle of the desert and, you know, there's soldiers and tanks and guns and everything flowing, right? And we— he goes, okay, you have to go in there and you have to tell them you've got a meeting. I have no clue who I have a meeting with, right?

Right, right.

Not, not, not a name, not Not a department.

And you're talking to the Army. You're talking to men in uniform with guns now, right?

Yeah. So I walk in this room and it's like chaos, right? And the guy's like, who are you here— you know, first thing, who are you here to— you know, give me your passport, right? So, you know, there's always that like quick sense of panic, like, okay, I'm just gonna hand over my passport to somebody I don't know in the middle of something with a gun and—

In the middle of nowhere. I have no idea how I get back to my hotel. Yeah.

So I hit— and he's like, who are you here to see? I'm like, I have no idea. And he's like yelling at me. And as you know, you know, when you get yelled at in Arabic, it sounds much worse than it is.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I'm just kind of like, dude, I don't know who I'm here to see. I was just told to come in the store and register here so that I could get it. So my business partner comes around, you know, get in the car, right? So finally they converse in Arabic, they get everything settled, you know, they're keeping my passport, which, you know, Which always freaks you out.

I know, I know exactly what you mean.

Always freaks me out. So we, you know, they collect them, we drive in, we get to the gate, can't get in, get, you know, have to go through another security check, you know, and then, then we finally get into this kind of facility where once again, I'm dumped off in a room.

Yep.

You know, nobody tells me what's going on. And I just kind of sit there. I sit there, I sit there, and I sit there for about an hour. I sit there.

Right.

And then, you know, a bunch of guys in military uniforms come in, they sit around the table, they introduce themselves. We spent all of 10 minutes talking. We love your product. We wanna buy more. You know, thank you for coming to visit us. Okay, we're done here. So that whole process took half a day for 10 minutes.

Right.

Yep.

I know exactly what you mean. Yeah. Yeah. You remind me of a funny story. Years ago, I was in Egypt and I get a call and I was supposed to get picked up at like 8 o'clock in the morning by a driver from my distributor. And I get a call from the front desk and they're like, your driver's here. So I go down and this guy comes up And he says, Mr. Zach? And I said, yes. And he points to himself and he says a very common Arabic name, which happened to be the name of my distributor, you know, the first name of my distributor. So he's like, Ahmed. So I was like, okay. So we get— I get in the car and I drive for about an hour. And I'm thinking, this isn't the direction, but maybe they, they want me to go right to a hospital for a meeting or something. And I I know Cairo really well, right? And I'm thinking, this is not where I expected to go, but he knew my name. You know, okay. Anyway, we get to this building and it's an office building. It's not a hospital. It's like— so I'm like, okay, this is strange. And I go in and there's this very nice guy about my age. And he says, who are you? And I said, who are you? He goes, I was not expecting you. I said, you know what? I was not expecting you either. So he laughed. He said, is your name Zach? I said, my name is Zach. Is your name Ahmed? He goes, well, my driver's name is Ahmed. So I was like, we seem to have a mistake here. He goes, yeah. I go, do you mind having your driver take me back to my hotel? He goes, well, no, I guess I have to pick up the other Mr. Zach.

Oh my God. What are the chances of that?

Exactly. Well, you know, never happened to me. Like, you know, thousands of times I've done this before. This has never happened to me except for that one time. Now I'm a little bit more careful. This was probably 15 years ago, but, um, it was really funny. And then I, you know, get back to my hotel and sure enough, there's another driver and another guy and they're in the same boat as we are. It was pretty funny.

It's, it's a weird thing. Like, I sometimes I find when I'm, you know, traveling internationally, I don't have this weird sense of fear. Like, I just kind of trust the situation.

You sort of have to let yourself go sometimes. And it is sort of strange, but some— I mean, you have to be careful, right? But you also sometimes You just have to sort of let yourself go because you're, you, you can't really control everything, you know?

Yeah. I mean, I, I, I think that's the point. You just can't really control everything and less so internationally in some of these other countries and you just kind of have to go with it. And if it, if it doesn't come together, it doesn't come together. And, you know.

Exactly. And, and I'll tell you what, you, you know, like I was talking to somebody the other day who was saying how she would spend, and it's actually sort of funny now because it's now on Zoom, but she was saying how she was spending like hours every day waiting for people who were late to Zoom calls. And I laughed. I said, you know how many thousands of hours of my life I have spent in the waiting room of a minister of health in a, in a developing country because I had a meeting and sometimes the meeting will be, come back next week and I'll, I'll make sure to meet you next week. So you end up Monday, you end up in his waiting room for 6, 7 hours. And then Tuesday you end up in his waiting room for 6, 7 hours. Now, by the time you get in and you have that meeting, maybe you walk away with a $3 million So you're not gonna not wait.

Yes.

Right? But you spend a lot of your time doing that kind of thing, right?

Yes. You and I shared the same— in my previous role, your previous role, you and I shared the same distributor in Mexico. So anyway, you and I shared the same distributor, and often, you know, our meetings in Mexico City wouldn't start until 6 o'clock, and we'd go to the hospital And we'd sit there waiting for this person at 6 PM. And if we got to see them by 9 PM, that was a successful day. But we just sat there waiting. And I—

There's nothing you can do. And especially Mexico City, it's not like you can fit in 3 meetings, right? It's a pretty difficult city to get from end to end. Yeah. I once talked— I was interviewing a guy for a job in São Paulo, right? And we were talking. I said, tell me about your, um, your typical day of work. And he said, well, you know, blah, blah, blah. And he said, yeah, I probably get to see 5 or 6 different customers on an average day. And I said, you're telling me— I didn't get too aggressive in the beginning. I was very casual. I said, so you see 5 or 6 different clients every day on your average day in São Paulo? And he said, yeah. And I said, that's not a special day. That's a normal day. And he says, yeah. So I can probably see 15, 18 clients in a week going out on sales calls in São Paulo. I was like, I'm gonna give you a chance to back off that story, you know, because I don't believe it. He's like, no, no, no. And I was like, there is— unless you have a helicopter or a rocket pad, you are not seeing that many people. Because again, it's the same type of thing. You're gonna, you're gonna wait for people. Nobody's gonna meet you on time. And you got to get around the city, you know. Yeah, that's our life, right? Traveling around big crowded cities and then waiting in people's waiting rooms to meet with them.

Yeah, it's a lot of It's, it's definitely a lot of hurry up and wait, hurry up and wait, hurry up and wait. And it sort of creates this like weird sense of anxiety all the time.

And it's that balance between the sense of urgency and the patience. Because like I was talking again, I was talking to somebody who works for me recently who said, well, this isn't going to happen. So I thought I would wait until it happened to do this. And, you know, some paperwork. I said, no, no, no, no. I said, do the paperwork, have it ready. Don't put it off because once the customer triggers something, we're going to have to move fast. And I said, you can't tell how long it's going to take with a customer, but keep up your sense of urgency, right? But it's difficult to balance that. If everything is moving slowly, if you're waiting for hours for the customer to call you into a meeting, you can get sucked into losing your own sense of urgency. So keeping that balance is really difficult for people in our job.

Yes. And there are times where, you know, I will admit I go off-kilter, you know, because I can't manage that sense of balance, right?

It's not easy. It's not easy. Yeah.

And I think right now where we're at with COVID and not traveling, I think that sense of balance has really gotten out of whack because we, we kind of don't know what to do with ourselves.

I know. I know. So how many days a year were you traveling most of your life?

I would say, you know, year to year would vary, but between 30% of my time upwards of 60% of my time. I think you travel a lot more than I do. I try to manage it a little bit, kind of.

Right.

I don't like to be— I can't do 3, 4, 6-week trips anymore like I used to.

I know, it's hard. It's hard on us.

Yeah.

But I'll tell you what, and then this year we haven't traveled at all. Like, you've traveled a little bit more than me this year. I've taken 3 trips. And it's sort of weird to, you know, to be home.

Yeah, that's my calendar. So, so, you know, I mean, I, I kind of figured, you know, March I would, I would probably be on the road. That's getting pushed out to June. And to be honest, I'm not 100% optimistic about June.

Yeah, so exactly. And it's, it's really, it's, it's just It's a weird thing. But during a normal year, during 2 years ago, right? It was that the whole structure of our lives was, well, you return from a trip, you unpack, you spend 3 days doing some stuff, you pack, you go out on a trip again, back and forth, back and forth, 'cause that's how you close business, you know? And that's, with any luck, our lives 2 years from now will be back to that more or less. What are your thoughts on that? Do you think we're gonna go back to the same way we were 2 years ago, or do you think it's gonna be an adjustment What are your thoughts?

I think there's gonna be a slight adjustment. I still think there's always gonna be the need for face-to-face, particularly on the international side, 'cause it comes back to that relationship building. Nobody's gonna do business with you unless you build that relationship. And as good as technology is, people still wanna see you. It was that 10-minute meeting. I spent half a day to go to that 10-minute meeting.

I know exactly what you mean. My feeling is that training and coaching our distributors and salespeople, we might continue to be able to do remotely. I think the, the actual interface with the customer, the relationship building will go back. And I think you and I are both cruising on the relationships we made before. I don't think it would be fair to say I've developed a new relationship all year, right? I think I am cruising on stuff that I had before, and that could run out, right? So we, you know, we're— the way you build up new relationships, the way you build up new business, like you said, is that face-to-face. It's not— You can't do that through Zoom in Nigeria or Lebanon or Saudi Arabia or India, right? You need that. You know, you might be able to do it in Belgium, you know, through Zoom, right? But hard to say, right?

Right. I wouldn't, I wouldn't use the word cruising. I would use the word creative. We've been creative over the last year to maintain those relationships, right? To make, to make sure that we're staying in touch with the people that we, we establish relationships Right. I would agree with you. It's very difficult to be establishing new relationships right now. So we can, we can plant those seeds. We can, we can have the outreach now, which is what I'm doing. I'm trying to find new people. I have the outreach now with the anticipation that when things get better, I'm gonna come and see you.

Right, right. That, that's exactly it. Yeah, that's exactly it. And I'm, and I'm doing that a lot. I'm saying to people, yep, next year, next year, we'll see. I'm sure we'll see each other at Arab Health next year. I'm sure we'll see each other at Medica next year. I'm sure, you know, we'll have a meal together next year.

Yeah, we, we hope so because I'm not, I'm not quite sure I could last another year without going anywhere.

I, I know, I know. This is totally off topic, but I just watched the Stanley Tucci, uh, doc— uh, show on Italy. I don't know if you've caught that.

I haven't yet, but I will watch it.

And my wife and I are sitting there going, ah, we so miss, you know, going to Rome, going to Napoli, right? And, and it's just like going into a restaurant and having a plate of fresh pasta that somebody else cooked is something That, that we're all going to appreciate when it comes around again, right?

Exactly, exactly. I mean, that— those are the things that just, you know, really— I think, you know, we work hard at what we do, we give up a lot of time, but, but to offset it with those types of experiences, the good food, the fun, the relation— you know, the relationships we make with people, the new friends we make, you know, and seeing things, seeing things that are outside of the 4 walls of our home offices. I mean, that's what keeps us going. That's the thrill of it, right? We kill ourselves, but then that's, that's the reward we get.

You know what, that's a really, really That's a really valid point. And I talk a lot about return on investment and driving revenue and creating jobs. But, you know, I, and I don't even like to admit this typically, but the reason I got into this, 'cause, 'cause I wanted to see the world, right?

Same.

And, you know, it's sort of like that whole bit of, I told a story in my book about this guy once. I was at a trade show in Brazil and I'm talking to this American guy and he goes, I'm really happy. There's an Outback Steakhouse next to my hotel. So I know what I'm gonna eat for the next 5 nights. I don't have to worry about getting sick. And I wanted to say to him, you are in one of the great steak cities in the world. You could eat a steak in a different world-class restaurant every night, all week, and yet you're going to go to an American chain restaurant, right? And that's the thing. I like to get out and, and really see the cities. And I think it helps business too, right? Because my, my distributors and my customers understand how much I'm connected to their But I do it because I enjoy it, you know?

Yeah, I think if you— it's soulless to be on the road, or soul-sucking. I don't know how you want to describe it. But if you, if you go to your meetings and you go back to your hotel and you just work and you don't do anything else, you will be burnt out in a very short period of time. It, it just absolutely soul-crushing to do that.

So what's the best meal you can think of that you had when you were on the road?

Well, you know, you know, I'm partial—

Top 3, top 3.

Top 3. Well, You know, I'm partial to Lebanese food because I was brought up Lebanese, so it's, it's a big comfort food for me.

Yeah.

So, you know, going to Beirut and eating Lebanese food is definitely my top, right, top thing. I absolutely love—

And I'll tell you what, okay, so you didn't— where did— I'm sorry, you didn't grow up in, in Detroit, did you?

You didn't? No, no, I grew up in, on the, in New England, on the East Coast.

Right. So, but like, so, so say you can go to Detroit and get a pretty good meal, but I'll tell you what, like, when I took my wife for real Lebanese food in the Middle East, she was like, oh my God, I've never— this is totally different from what you get, you know, even the best place in Detroit or the best place in Chicago. It doesn't compare. You know, it's a, it's a produce-driven— it's grandmas and produce that drives it, right? Anyway, I'm sorry, go on.

No, so, so that's always sort of like my, you know, that's my comfort food. And the litmus test is how close it is to my mother's cooking, right? You know, that's, that's, that was always the litmus test. So that's probably number one for me. And the first thing, and you know, the first thing I do when I land in Dubai is always go to our favorite Wafi Gourmet restaurant.

Wafi Gourmet. Yeah.

Because that's what, that is my favorite restaurant in Dubai. So that's probably number one. Secondly, I don't eat a lot of beef, but when I do eat beef, there's nothing better than a steak in Buenos Aires with a nice bottle of red. I know.

I do the same thing. Living in Chicago, I never eat a steak in America, not because I don't like it, but because it would It would just be too— I could eat 50 really good steaks a year and then I'd die. So, but when I'm in Buenos Aires and São Paulo, I always have a steak. And South Africa. Those are really the only places I ever eat red meat.

Yeah. And then I'd said the last, the third meal is I'm going to hit Africa and South Africa or Mozambique, the prawns. There's nothing like those prawns on earth. So I could just eat those, keep them coming in a nice peri-peri or Or, you know, a nice garlic butter. I mean, and those things are huge. They're like this big.

Yeah, I was gonna say, they're like, they're like a little, like full-sized lobsters, you know?

Yeah. Yeah. So the Mozambican prawns are definitely right up there in the top 3.

Yeah. That's, yeah. And that's the thing I just, I love. And a lot of it's even street food and people will be, they'll sort of go, oh my God, I can't believe you did that. And I'm like, you know, if you're smart about it, you know, if it's fast, I won't eat stuff that's on the street that's, you know, You know what? And the other— I hate to get into the grit of it, but I don't eat street food where I don't think the plumbing is good, because if the people don't have access to hot water to wash their hands, it makes me very concerned. And I don't like street food where it's sitting too long. So fast-moving street food is good, right? But I'll eat street food if I know that a city has good plumbing and I can see that the food is moving fast. I'll eat it. And I have twice in my life, 3 times in my life, I've gotten a really bad stomach thing and that's about it. So I've been pretty lucky with that, but I've had some insanely good food. Like I've had some food that, that just mind-blowing that, you know, most people would just walk by because they didn't really notice it. And that, that's really the, you know, the cool part of our life.

Right. Right. Right. Yeah, for sure. And, and, you know, it's just in, in Italy, I didn't even come, you know, the food in Italy is just to die for, you know.

Right. And, and, and they, they enjoy it and, you know, and, and it's also, it's part of doing business. You You can't do business with an Italian without having, you know, a 2-hour lunch and a couple of glasses of wine, right? So why not, you know, pull, you know, let it happen, right?

Yeah, but I always tell people that the absolute worst food in Italy that they consider the worst food in Italy is 100 times better than our best Italian food here. So pretty much.

Have you ever eaten in the, uh, in the train stations, in the, what do they call it, the, um, Auto Grill? Do you know No. So in the train stations, there's a chain called Autogrill, which is a fast food restaurant. But what they do is they have like 3 salads, 3 pastas, and 3 meat dishes, or 2 meat dishes and a fish dish every day. And it's, I don't know, $12 for a 3-course meal, and then $15 you throw in a little bottle of wine. And it is better than 99% of the Italian restaurants in America, and it's fast. It's at the train station and it's cheap, right? Because they just— you couldn't— you can't sell bad food in Italy except to tourists because the Italians would kill you if you tried to sell them bad food, right?

I mean, train stations. I mean, how many— the best sandwiches I've ever had, I've bought in train stations in Europe. And I'm like, I'm like, I can't wait to go through Berlin to get that sandwich that was in that train station. You know?

There's this one sausage stand in Munich that I've been going to for 30 years. And it's like, there are 20 sausage stands. I'm sure the other 19 are really good too, right? But I've been going to that one stand for, you know, and every time I go through Munich, I have to go to that one stand and have that one sausage. Because, you know, they take it really seriously, even if it's in a train station, even if it's a buck and a half, right? They take it seriously.

Anyway, that's— Now that I'm hungry, what's the next topic?

Well, I don't want to take up, you know, more of your time than you, that you contracted for, so I appreciate it. Any final words for your— you're looking at, yeah, 22-year-old Grace trying to figure out if she should go to law school or not. Any words of wisdom to, to somebody getting into this field as a, as a, as a youth?

Yeah, I mean, I think, I— don't be afraid of it. You know, we, we, you know, more so today than 20, 30 years ago, we live in a global society, so don't be afraid of it. It's not easy. Be— stick With it. Pack your patience. I think that's something that I tell everybody. You know, what we do is not, you know, we're not going to get POs every day. I mean, unfortunately. So pack the patience. You know, I think it's as American companies, they have to diversify. This market cannot handle growth. So how do you grow your business? New product or new market? So it's easier, it's easier to go after new markets.

But it is more profitable, and very often it's going to add more value to the, to the company, right? $100 million American company that sells $10 million more domestically doesn't really grow in value. A $100 million company that sells $10 million internationally, their value as a company might go up 30%.

Yep. Yep. And it just, it kind of, you know, it just broadens you in terms of, you know, like for instance, right now, if the healthcare market in the US is down, maybe I have a market overseas that's making up for that. So we're weathering the storm, you know, we're weathering the storm elsewhere.

Yeah. And I've seen also, for instance, the trend could go away, you know, as an example, I worked once for a company that had ventilators that were perfectly fine in 1985 in the United States, but by 1995, there wasn't a market for them in the United States, right? The competition had outpaced them. But that ventilator was fantastic in Africa, right? So sometimes that's what you got to do. You know, it makes perfect sense that the more options you have, the more, you know, the more revenue Right.

And it's fun. I mean, you have to have that open mind and you have to go into it with an open mind. And hopefully you've got management that, you know, stands behind you and lets you do your thing. So, you know, I just, I just tell everybody, don't be afraid of it. Just take the risk.

Don't be afraid of it. I think that's great, great advice. Great. Well, thanks a lot, Grace. I really appreciate your time here. This has been a blast. I think I just love some of these conversations just because it's sort of like talking, you know, talking to old friends over a meal, right? So anyway, great having you.

Thanks a lot.

For, uh, for everybody listening in, please subscribe to the podcast Conversations That Grow International Sales. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Zach.