IS BUYING PROPERTY IN YOUR SMSF RIGHT FOR YOU?

Good evening, everyone.

Welcome, welcome, Aaron.

I love the flood. When Karina hits the button and we see all the people coming on the call. Thank you, everyone, for coming and joining us tonight. Let us know you can hear us in the chat. Let's get some. Some conversation happening here. Make sure we're all working.

Throw your comments, emojis, anything in the chat. We're up for it.

We go. Grant's here. Hey, Grant, how you doing? Seen some faces. It's nice to see some regulars here. I will say, those of you that join us each and every month.

He'S the one.

Awesome. Even getting some thumbs up on the screen. Sarah and I like this.

I am, I'm doing. I'll let you focus on that. I'm focusing on the preso because we got some gold here.

All right, well, nice to see you in here. Rob and Julia, Prince, Sheena, Derek, John, Annie, like, it's an absolute pleasure to be here with you guys tonight. Now, Aaron, I thought we'd, you know, I feel like it's my job to find something interesting as the bit of the icebreaker when we do these now. And I always. Now, this has actually been the easiest one to find because old mate charmers did a bit of a backflip on super right when we're doing a super presentation. I was like, you wouldn't believe.

He's very Superman, that guy.

Well, I will say, and I'd love to get your opinion on this one is like, it did seem to me that it was quite ridiculous what they were planning to do with superannuation imbalances over 3 million, like having a unre, unrealized capital gains tax in play just on so many levels. Seemed like it was going to be an absolute disaster. How do you feel about it?

Yeah, I thought it was going to be a disaster too. But what I found really intriguing behind the scenes when we talked to investors is that they had this way of understanding it and calculating it and not letting it rattle them, which I thought was quite resilient because where there's a. A problem like attacks, there's usually someone who will be thinking of ways that they can make it work for them.

Right. Well, this is what history shows us, right? Every time a government intervention like this comes in, in general, the second order consequences is we'll use this as an example. So labor comes out and they say, look, any super balance over $3 million, we're going to start taxing unrealized capital gains. Right? That's their policy. So then the whole investor market will shift And I dare say less people would invest in property because if you get a capital gain and you've got to pay an unrealized capital gain, it's not pretty liquid. So then less people invest in property. But then the irony of that is then there's less investment properties and rents go up and property values go up. So anyone who held their teeth does well, right? Yeah. So the unintended consequences that property would probably come out or all right in that scenario there. But nonetheless I'm thrilled they actually did take the changes out because the thing that concerned me and for anyone you know that was following this story and I'll just check in the chat, was anyone else following this story, was it just me about the super taxes they were going to bring in capital gains. Have a few. Anyone else following this one? Well for anyone that isn't up to speed on this one, it was that for any super balance over $3 million they were going to start taxing at a higher rate. So it goes from 15% to 30% and then they were also going to start taxing unrealized capital gains which means if you had a property and let's say it was a million bucks and it went up to two, well the government would want to take their cut that 30% even before you sell it. So you haven't realized that gain which I feel like would be an absolute disaster. An absolute disaster. So we're thrilled to hear that's getting unwound. There are some higher tax rates for super coming. But all in all I think what's happened here and occurred has actually tied perfectly into what we're discussing tonight where now SMSF particularly is becoming quite attractive and property is becoming quite attractive in super again. So it's going to be very interesting to see how this plays out.

Aaron, it is a big, a big topic super in especially in our business from an investment mortgage and property investment focused firm. So yeah.

Let'S get kicked off into the presentation of the night.

All right, so we are all here to talk is buying a property in your self managed super fund right for you. So you might be coming from not being not set up right now or you might have one set up and you've got other assets and now you want to look at property or you've got property in your super fund and you want to multiply that out. So that is the question is super, is it buying property right for you in the self made super fund?

Love it. I think it's a very important question.

At this time that's Right. So as we are finance professionals here under General advice. So the information provided under General advice today, any advice contained in the material that we have have prepared is without taking into account your financial objectives, financial situation and needs, before acting on the advice, you should consider the appropriateness of the advice regarding to your circumstances or these matters. So that is.

It's pretty technical level. It's technical, right, I know. Did you, did you get that from your afsl? Is that what they put into the requirements?

Like we, we have specific wording there.

Charlie, so I noticed.

Do you have the human way of saying that?

I'll say this in a human way. Guys, tonight we're going to talk about some pretty spicy topics. Like I actually think we're going to cover some things that could make a huge difference to everyone's retirement. Now on this call, Aaron and the SMB team are very qualified to talk about the broking component. But there's a whole bunch of stuff that exists around this, whether it's accountants, whether it's lawyers, whether it's tax advice. Right. Financial planning, even to a degree as well comes into this conversation. It's really important you have a great team around you that are specialists, are qualified to speak to your specific situation. Do not and I repeat, do not go out and act on anything you hear in this presentation tonight without getting the appropriate support or speaking to someone like the SMB team. So can you all be on your best behavior? Because I really don't want to get sued or crawled in before. I've had enough encounters with ASIC in my time. It's not something I want to have happen again. And for anyone who's wondering what that actually is, I had a podcast called Asset Blocks and they did not like the name of the podcast. So we'll leave that there. That's for another day. Another day?

Yeah, that's it. Cool. Well, going down that path there, Charlie, who. Who are we?

Well, me, I'm a. I'm a business owner and a property enthusiast. I'm someone who's very fortunate. With help of people like you, Aaron, I've actually built a property over 10 million. We just got some values back today. I might even share that with you tomorrow. But very fortunately with the help we've yourself and some others is I'm a. A well established property investor who just loves this stuff and continue to love this stuff. And then transparently I'm actually thinking about doing a property in my smsf. I'm kind of thinking of stealing this whole time tonight just to Help me out.

Just to help you out.

Just to help me out.

We're here, we're here for Charlie and everyone else so well my for, for me I am the one that actually helps people get the runs on the board. So I am a property investment focused broker with a firm of 13 other staff to help you achieve your goals in property investment. We are the ones that help you get the. We've done over $300 million worth of investment lending. We are looking at. We've seen the massive positives that property investment helps and we've also helped the people that have got themselves into trouble over the time that have been introduced. They end up listening to some heartbreak video on online the setups of a trust or setups of self managed super fund because a mate told them to do so. But what we're going to be covering tonight is around smsf. We're not going to do fluff, we're not talking about theory, we're just going to talk about real strategy from people that have done it. And I am a person that operates a multi property SMSF as well so I can talk from my level of experience personally plus others.

So you've got an property in SMSF and then you're also helping a ton of other investors with SMSF as well. Way overqualified Aaron. And congratulations on that as well.

Cool. So why do we, why, why smsf? Why do we talk about some of the advertising of a caution or success? Well every, the. The strategy has to be suited to your individual circumstances or situation. Sometimes SMSF is not not able to be and sometimes it is. It doesn't mean that it's good or it's bad for you. We see a lot of people get started into SMSF simply because it was the only place they can borrow which is great. It affects their whole asset position later on in life because they couldn't do it in their own name. SMSF property Buying property only works when it matches your goals, your cash flow and your time to retirement and your ability to manage complexities because this is probably even though it's highly regulated and there's potentially only one way to do it and set it up. It is probably the most complex structure we have or one of the most complex structures we have to be able to buy and have property and done well it can help build your wealth and done poorly it becomes an expensive mistake that is way too hard to reverse.

And let's just stop for a second on there, right? Because I must admit I'm like you. I get on YouTube and I get excited. Like even today, like I was like fomoing on a hot spot and had to check myself. Right? It happens. And don't all sit in the chat and don't pretend you haven't sat there at a point in your life you're like, damn, Geelong's looking pretty good now. Right now. Yeah. See what's going on?

Are we day trading some property? Are we mate?

Look, I've, I have my moments but the thing that doesn't come up that you don't see in the YouTube videos is like I've seen some of these SMSF things go really, really wrong. Like really wrong. And this is not for all the gains. It's like if you make the mistakes and it's actually not right for you in your circumstances, this could be one of the biggest financial mistakes in your life. Really good. So on that caution guys, let's power in, power in.

All right, so what the game plan is here tonight. I am a mortgage broker. We do lending 100 of the time. We believe that lending is a far bigger topic than a lot of people put out there in the media. We should focus on lending, we should understand lending and there's a lot to the lending side. We are not accountants, financial planners, property buyer's agents. We're none of that. So we're not going to be talking about the next hotspot like Charlie, if you come here for a hotspot spot.

You'Re going to be. If we've got time at the end, I'll have a crack. Definitely not.

We, we aren't accountants too to advise whether it's this structure or that structure or anything. But we are here to talk about how the lending can work and be maximized inside an SMSF tonight. So we'll be talking 100 about the lending. You can throw any questions at us during the night, use the chat and you'll be offered any specific personal conversations with our team as we go through as well. And you feel free to book in and we'll be able to help you out. So lending is our game plan tonight. Cool. So next thing is what, what are the positives of smsf? So we got our little man here, he's got his thumbs up. He can. So the best thing about self managed super fund is that you can set it up to borrow money. So when we leverage the other other people's money like the bank, it's going to be able to supercharge to allow us to hold onto a, a larger valued asset.

Can we just Pause on that one there for Aaron because I think this is something just to clarify. Buying property in your smsf the borrowing capacity of a super fund essentially or a self managed super fund completely separate from your personal borrowing power.

Absolutely.

If you are maxed out to the teeth in your outside of super. Right. This is an avenue where it can really open up for you.

Correct. So there is an aspect that you can have your personal borrowing capacity isolated from your self managed super fund borrowing capacity. There are some checks and balances, but that is in essence it. So there are a lot of people will buy a lot of property in their own name and then realize they've got capped out which I would also reference. There's a masterclass from last month that would stop you from getting capped out. And this month is about superannuation. It's a total separate thing. So our borrowing capacity gets based around our superannuation contributions and rental income as a basis to start off the conversation with. So it's separate borrowing capacity. The other pro is that we can do commercial and commercial can have some ninja benefits related to either being investing to commercial or if you are self employed and you have a need for an office, your office can be in your SMSF and you can rent off your retirement. We can also use future contributions. So whereas the borrowing capacities calculators in your own name uses historical figures like your tax returns, payslips, all that stuff of what you actually have earned the past and annualizes it superannuation, we can actually have the ability to add extra super contributions. So if you are ready, willing and able to want to put salary sacrifice in things like that, there are lenders that can accommodate future income into your super. You don't have to have demonstrated it historically and sometimes we found some people that it may be their only path to being able to invest in property because of income, socioeconomics, all that sort of stuff. And because super is a mandatory part of our wage and our system, it can be a great path to open up from there. And the other pro is that even if you borrowed, borrowed for super borrowed money from a lender in super before, you actually have the ability to refinance. So my call out is if you, if anyone's got a loan with like your major banks, so your nabs, Macquaries, CBAs, amp St. George's all those people that used to do SMSF, they don't like SMSF anymore because they're probably charging you 9 or 10% interest rates. Most of the non banks are now doing it. So you do have an easy pathway without cost to be able to refinance smsf. So there's some pros for you.

Huge pros. Absolutely huge pros. And Aaron, I've just in the chat we've had a couple of people mention they can't see the slides. I'll just mention everyone who's using zoom. You may need to click up the top if you're looking at Aaron's screen or the meeting now and it seems. Yep, got it now. Fantastic. And that might be you as well Karina. So that's all coming through but it seems everyone else is with us and you've just outlined some incredible pros of self managed super incredible pros. Like this is where it's such a huge advantage.

Absolutely. So let's, let's look at our, our, our stick figure. Our frowny face guy with the big reacts. What's the cons here? I am a fan of my stick figures if anyone master classes I love my stick figures. All right. Interest rates and costs are higher. All right. So you might, you might go to the bank and you want to refinance your own place or an investment property in your own name and the bank's going to pay for the valuation. Not the case in Super. They're going to charge you for the valuation. Interest rates are higher. They're even slightly higher in some respects than some commercial lending that could be done as well. So and there's always some extra costs related to whether it's application fees or the discharge fees as well. So those are the, that's a big con there. The limited low. There's limited low deposit lenders. Now I'm, I'm safe to say that there is some updates I've got later on the side that there is actually more lenders that have have a change with lowering the deposit levels required to get in. So that's barrier is changing. There's no access to equity. So where you might want to get your owner occupied place and it's gone up in value. You want to get some equity out and buy another investment property in super. You cannot do that development major renovations. That's not part of superannuation either. Lenders will actually put a personal guarantee on you. So there is this thing called limited recourse borrowing arrangements. So just be careful of that one. It's limited to the assets of your smsf. Not limited to you as a person because you're personally guaranteeing what they call a bear trust which can get a little technical. So that's there too. If you're buying commercial most of the time you can get around the GST implications on commercial property by either having a tenant but sometimes you might need to pay it. So there is some complications in that because GST is not a component that calculates your lending and if you need to add more money to your super it can get a little bit. I've got to think about it beforehand so I've got to either salary sacrifice into super or I've got to triple check with my accountant what I need to do to be able to add some money into super to be able to manage things. So it's a tax environment that needs to have some decision factors before you can bulk add money into Super. So that's a, that can be a bit of a con, especially if the super fund needs more money immediately.

Some big cons here. So even though we saw some big pros before, this is the stuff that essentially has kept me out of SMSF to this point. I'd love to know in the chat if anyone has a property in their SMS in their SMSF now. And we've got some ripper questions coming through. I think the Q A section is going to be good fun later on. Aaron, one of the things I just wanted to ask here, here with the SMSF side of things, what type of interest rate difference or cost difference do you generally see for investors? Because I think everyone's trying to weigh that up right as investors, you know, is it worth it is going to come down to that. Yeah.

So there's, if you're borrowing at a very low loan to value ratio, say around that 60% mark you can get rates that are close to the 6% some specials out there maybe a little bit less or a little bit more than the 6%. So on average seeing there maybe a little bit more. If you're looking at doing a bit of a strategy around lending because you can't get access to equity, you're probably going to be thinking of the 80% mark so you can save some cash instead of putting 40, dumping 40% in there so they could be around that six and a half percent mark. And then there are some lenders that at sort of the 90% mark and we're looking at into the mid, mid to high sevens in that area.

I can't believe you're even saying that. How wild is that? There are lenders now in SMSF doing 90% loans or 10% deposits and the.

Secret is we've got four lenders that can do it. So but if we think about the interest rates, like we've had 0.75% reductions from the RBA. So about six months ago we were talking about early sevens for SMSF. So now we're in a much better position opening the door to different things from a cash flow point of view and a deposit level.

Okay, so to make this point clear here, you're going to pay a higher interest rate in general. If you go into SMSF now, that may be worth it. The other part is you're going to have limited lenders compared to. Outside of an smsf. You can't do, you can't access equity guys, which, this is the big one here of going. If your strategy depends on extracting equity from a property to buy the next one, that's a, that you can't play that game here. Like this isn't the way to do it. Aaron's got a fantastic strategy later on that's different to grow the portfolio. But you really can't do this here. If you're any type of renovation person or doing developments, that's also where this wouldn't be applicable at all. So they're the big ones you've got to watch out for. So if any of your strategy depends on that, then this is not the place to make it. So definitely not the place.

And if anyone's thought of that old saying, cash is king. One of the things that's really cool with SMSF is that if you have an amount of money left over in your SMSF and you've allocated the nice amount of proportion of cash to your property portfolio post the purchase, that's going to be very handy. That cash is king. And cash will get you out of a few little things, whether it's small repairs. I think, Charlie, you had a lot of doors that need to be repaired on your portfolio as you bought it.

Dude, I can't tell you how many doors I've replaced. Did anyone in the chat please let me know. I don't know what it is with my tenant selection, but every time I seem to buy a house, it's got to have doors replaced. Doors are the things people just gone around slamming doors on me.

Yeah, I had a tenant run into my, my, my roller door dump, dump everything in there, sewage things, hot water, ovens, you name it, we've, we've been able to replace it. It's, it's, it's phenomenal what we can do there.

Okay, so cash works. Having Cash point there is like you really. If you're going to do a property in SMSF you're really not wanting to max out your cash in the purchase of the property, you've got to be leaving something left over to deal with, potentially a negative carry or any shortfall on, you know, the rent versus the mortgage. You've also got to make sure that you've got an allowance for things like maintenance. Right. So if something comes up and you need to do a repair like where's the cash coming from to do that? I saw a comment before about like land tax and things like that, you've got to make sure you're able to cover that as well. So it's quite the, quite the endeavor to go on here and making sure you've got buffers in super to manage such things really comes into it as well.

That's right. Cool. So who is SMSF lending probably for? So a person that has a long term property investor mindset. Someone that could be capped out on their personal capacity as this is separate. Someone that's comfortable with a little bit of complexity. So with an SMSF with lending it's two companies and two trusts. That's with one property when you go to multiple properties you, you could have a simple two companies plus two trusts or a whole range of different things that comes into that. So you've got to be comfortable with complexity and potentially multiple lenders because they all have very different borrowing capacities. Have some reasonable super balances. Now I'm not saying you have to have any sort of. You can from a mortgage broker point of view. We have lenders that don't care how much money you have in super but we have some lenders that do care how much money you have in Super. So I'm just saying reasonable super balances. We need to have regular contribution. So if your employer is not contributing or something's happened as an error wise there or anything like that, knowing that in the next year or so you're going to have employers will have mandatory pay super at the same time they pay your wages. So that's going to be beneficial for your self managed super fund because there's regular contributions coming in quicker than every three months. And the other one is if you don't have any other capital anywhere or you want to benefit your own retirement as a business owner owning your commercial property in a SMSF can be quite beneficial and advantageous because you're helping your own future versus being a tenant of someone else's future.

Totally there and some some fantastic thinking that comes into that. Now guys, in the chat I can see some fantastic questions coming through like really good ones. We will come back and answer these in the Q A section so you can come through and read them in here. If there's something specific to what we're talking about, I will make sure we bring it up in the slide. But a lot of these questions are like outside some of the ideas here. But there's some really, really good questions in it.

It.

All right, so we'll come back around to that one. Press on Aaron.

Cool. So we'll go for now who it is not probably for. So too low of a super balance.

We've actually had this come up a few times. Okay, what is too low? And then can I throw on an extra one here because it's coming up in the chat. What's too low and what's not enough buffer. Right so and I realize there's an opinion part to this and a lot of grains of salt, but can we give any type of guide here?

All right, so from a, from a buffer point of view we'll tackle that one first. A buffer point of view. So it's going to be around what type of property you've bought. So house and land may have some less complexity. So we'll probably have your landlord's insurance and you'll have other little bits and pieces. Whereas say an apartment's going to have strata to accommodate. So both of those are going to have a different impact on how much buffer you have. So the really cool thing about if you're properly advised around property and there's cash flow forecasts done on your property, you can shortcut and cheat and get that information and calculate it out. But typically you're going to have I see anywhere between 8 to $20,000 for, for me personally in my SMSF I like to have $20,000 cash and I reasonable and I run two properties, one low cost property and one commercial property. I try not to let the cash dip low there. It sometimes does because there might be tenant with a blocked drain or a new power plant or a hot water system. Not that I changed hot water systems too much but those things so I do, I don't mind having that cash. If you are older and you're got some of your members of the self managed super fund going into retirement you've got to be able to allocate not only the property expense costs. If there is going to be any negative property expense costs because over time hopefully the property becomes positive, you're going to have to be able to allocate and manage a pension at the same time. So if you are going to go into an area where you're managing costs of someone that's retired and someone that's still and acquisition phase that's probably where I would say financial planners are going to set up for the best outcome there. They are going to set up for the best outcome for diversity. Diversity in other asset classes as well. But that's there. How low is too low on a super balance? Now there's two, two ways to think about this. One, I would say that you would probably need around to get a fairly decent type of property. Say that 600 $700,000 mark area. On the traditional frameworks of getting access to every single lender which is usually a loan to value ratio of 80% we're probably going to have to have $150,000 or more combined. So it can be you plus your partner, it can be you plus up to five other members in the super fund to pull your assets together to be able to get that amount of money. But I would say too low would be is if you're only. If you're probably under the hundred grand mark it's going to be a little bit harder. But my caveat on that one is that some people will have these things called bring forward rul and catch up of super contributions. So if typically in the self employed area, if you've been a sole trader or being yourself in distributions for ages and ages and you are deciding to put bulk deposits in your super to go from a low balance to a high balance to be able to do property or even to supercharge up to commercial property, those extra planning events around how much you're going to contribute as bulk and things like that from a tax planning or even a purpose of investment, your low balance that you're starting with will usually become a high balance. So you won't have a too low balance anymore. So I would say that if we're, if we're under the 100 grand mark we're probably. You've got to think what market is there that's going to help you with a property investment. If you are going to put a very low.

Is that even reasonable? I would have thought 200 grand makes more sense. What you've described so far.

Yeah, for 150 plus is where I'm comfortable. 250 grand is sort of some guidelines with ASIC and a couple other things. But because as a mortgage broker we are dependent on the rules of the lenders and there's some lenders that don't care how much balance and there are lenders that do care how much balance we have to have. What is the mathematical equation of like a 20% plus costs plus a little bit of buffer left over after the purchase of the first property.

Guys, this is why I feel so lucky to have someone like Aaron in my corner. Just the nuance that he understands out of that is like even in that is like if you went broadly most people would say 250 but Aaron understands the difference between the lenders and that it could potentially get done at close to 150.

But here's the other conversations I have with other people like from a lending point of view since we don't have the restrictions of balance. It's really fascinating to understand what accountants say and what financial planners say. I've had financial planners say to me that they can't do anything under 600,000. I've had accountants say they can't do anything under 500,000. And in the sense because they won't.

Get the developer kickbacks right if they're selling off the plan it's like okay.

I'm sorry about that. That and, and I've had like in the space of a week have all these professionals tell me different numbers and I'm going but what is the number? Well there is no number, it's a guideline and it's also called self managed, not pmsf. It's called smsf, not partially managed, it's self managed. And the ways the lenders do some servicing that's even more wild I can tell you that. So the other one is who is it? Probably not for cost sensitive or risk averse. That's a, that's a up pretty well there if you want flexibility like equity development, all that sort of stuff. Not willing to have a team. I believe a team is going to be crucial especially a mortgage broker because most of the lending is not major banks anymore. So you're going to need a mortgage broker, you're going to need an accountant because there's tax returns and auditing and I would even say you're going to need a property advisor to so even me doing lending 100 of the time in the investor space I would usually defer to a, a property partner, buyer's agent or property investment partner to understand what's out there because I don't have the time to see the nuances in the market. And then if you've got a short term to retirement you really got to consider whether this is right for you.

Because if you know what I'm going to say what short? Give us a specific what's short?

You typically need at least greater than I'd say a good minimum horizon for a property is probably five years but I would say that you probably got to at least have that 10 year mark because it's got to give, got to give the property some time and it can't be your only asset.

Okay so and these are guidelines guys I said at the start of this presentation this is general advice. This isn't specific but if you're looking for some markers you want to have at least 200 grand in super it sounds like is reasonable and you want to be someone that's contributing you super right. You want to have a reasonable income where you are putting money into that as well. There's certain type of assets that will suit that and be with it. You want to have a 10 year outlook ideally more longer the better in this game here. And then to the point here is that you know this is a strategy where you're going to be working with accountants, potentially lawyers, potentially financial planners to make it all work. You've got to be up for that where if you're not then maybe SMSF isn't right for you. And I just want to throw in more caveat here Aaron before you go into the next slide I'm going to put a link in the chat that now if anyone on this call is interested in getting their borrowing capacity done for an SMSF or seeing what's possible for them in an smsf then the link I've just put in the chat will let you book in with one of the SMB team and they'll go through that with you to see in your specific circumstance because there's some fantastic questions in here whether it's about is someone in pension phase versus accumulation what if you parents and kids, right. There's a lot of unique things in here which we're only covering general at the moment but if you jump on with one of the SMS SMS SMB team not SMF team, SMB team they'll be able to answer those questions specific with you. So jump on it very worth your time. It'll give you a as you can see with Aaron being such a wizard like he'll be able to give you a very or one of the team will be able to give you a much better clear understanding of how this fits for you.

And the short term retirement. That's where we do lean on some financial planners a little bit more as well about some of the nuances for Things like that. The last one, moving overseas permanently. I don't know how many people have come across that they want to move overseas or before tax or whatever it is. But SMSF may not be the best one for you because moving overseas you do need to have your SMSF controlled and managed in Australia and there's only leniencies for only a couple of years out of Australia. So you need to be really mindful of what your future forecast is about going into smsf.

Let's do it. Press on.

Cool. Right, so I've got some important changes. So this is the really, this is really where the lenders actually come out with a whole range of raft of changes. And I've got some real good examples of why these ones could be good for you to consider as we go through this. So the first one is loan to value ratios. In the last month we've had two additional lenders come onto the market with 90% loan to value ratios inside of superannuation. And normally we would see that lenders over the 80% mark would charge lenders mortgage insurance or some sort of risk fee to balance the risk here. But in these two cases there is no additional risk fees. So there's none of that and there's no additional mortgage insurance. The only thing that changes and costs you more is the interest rate. That is like mic drop territory.

I was gonna say. I feel like this is huge. Aaron, do you just wanna unpack that a little bit deeper here?

Yeah. So let's have a look at it. Think about a $700,000 property purchase. You if here, if we're going to purchase this property with a 90% loan to value ratio, we're going to spend $70,000 less in cash deposit than you would if you were going to borrow at 80%. So that's $70,000 that stays in your pocket. Now the interest rate for one of our lenders that sits at 90% with a 30 year loan term. The change in repayment from an 80% loan to a 90% loan is going to cost you $515 more per month. So we take that 515, we're going to multiply that by 12. So the cost for 12 months of holding this property is going to be about 6184. So here's the kicker. If you are really good advised around a quality property acquisition and we're looking for the property to increase in value and we give it time, which is what you need 12 months or even if we go to 24 months that's going to be about $12,000 of cost. So we've saved not putting 70 grand down, but we've had to pay 6 grand a year for the privilege of having a 90% loan to value ratio. And then if we revalue the property, this is the kicker, if we revalue the property with strategic mortgage broking strategy, we'll be able to then reval the property, the property goes up in value. So what was 90% now becomes 80%. We can apply to the lender to get an interest rate reduction. We've manufactured the equity, we've used the lender's money where if we take in account $6,100 off our 70 grand, so we've come out with a net $64,000 ahead than if we took an 80% loan or $58,000 ahead if we took the 90% loan for two years to give our property more time to grow. So if we've taken those two factors, we now can can re revalue the property, which we will have to do along the way for ATO compliance, provide that valuation to the bank and get our interest rate reduced. And we're talking like 90% at 7.99% we can get that reduced to like 6.7. Like we can have that whole rate reduction once that property performs.

Honestly, this is when you think about it, one of the big downsides of SMSF is equity, right? You can't get your equity out. So if you think about this here, if to acquire a property you've only got to put 10% down, you are limiting the amount of equity you have to put in or cash you have to put in to really circumvent one of the bigger flaws of smsf. And with the strategy you've just outlined here, Aaron, of like going on 90%, if you've picked property well, which we're not people who do that, but it's like eventually might be 12 months, might be 18, might be two years, but eventually if the property grows, you're going to be able to refinance to a better rate later because you will have gained that equity rather than putting it in the cash. And when you think about it, that cash that you might have put into this property, you can be using that to cover the negative, carry your land tax repairs like it's a very smart way to go about this to preserve buffers and I think play the strategy.

Of SMSF very cleverly and playing the, the preservation of cash. Because if you on an income of 100 grand you're only putting 12 grand a year of super into it. So your super recovery of balance is so slow, reducing the amount you need to pay per property is a huge benefit. Now this lender has some restrictions. You can't borrow more than a million dollars at 90%. So that's okay. Million dollars is not too bad. But there is no risk fees and no lmi. Just carry that forward because most of the time when you're talking over 80%, you're paying those fees. Now there's another one. Do you want the really nice kicker here?

Oh, absolutely. And a set of steak knives. Let's do it.

Set of steak knives. Loan term. We now are going to 90% and giving you a 40 year loan term.

That's big talk about a long term outlook. I love it.

Right, So I did the numbers on the loan to value ratio of 90% at 30 years. But now let's. And at 30 years and then now we've got a lender that will do 40 years with a 90% loan term. Now let's take our $700,000 purchase again. So we'll give you a real example. So we're going to be still $70,000 less of our super money going towards the purchase. But now we've got a lender that's given us 40 years, so 10 extra years and a slightly better rate than the one that I explained in the loan to value ratio of 90%. So given us some interest rate, it's about 7.7 this time. So we're only paying $460 a month extra repayments for having the privilege of 90%. Which means we're only $5,529 a month. In 12 months extra dollars paid, so we've saved 70 grand. We paid 5,000, we got 40 years. We can then after 12 months or even two years revalue. So depending on the type of property and what our outlook is, after the 12 months we could revalue again. Same lender. We can revalue with the same lender you're with, with the 40 years. And then we can take your valuation to the lender and get you the interest rates at 80% and at 80% our loan probably it'll decrease to like the, the 6.9 area, 6.7 area pretty, pretty, pretty quickly once we can prove the valuations uplift. So if we're using $5,000, we're going to preserve $65,000 of our money. That's hard to recoup when we're doing Property and Super. And if we took a little bit longer to get the equity, say two years, we're preserving about 59 grand of the money that we would normally have to put to Super. And the really other really cool thing is some of these lenders actually allow us to use the additional contributions and a bunchload of other policies that some of the traditional lenders that have gone down the path of giving you 90% in super, who charge you a mortgage insurance and who charge you a risk fee weren't doing. And this lender with 40 years 90% they are still not charging you risk fees or mortgage insurance to have the privilege of 90%.

Damn. Aaron. Now I imagine in a group of property investors I don't have to explain that leverage is the game and when you're getting better lvrs and also longer loan terms, the leverage is huge here. We did get one question here from John that I think is really relevant. Is there any age limits on 40 year loans? Like if someone, I don't know, 60, yeah, 40 year loan would put them well over the, you know, expected age. Not that I'm wishing anyone unwell here but is there any age restrictions or anything we need to be aware of on that one?

So generally speaking, generally speaking there is the age of ending your loan is what what most lenders will look at. So you can have a loan up until X number years whether it's I. We've got a comment in chat about 85 but generally speaking in any lending, SMSF, normal lending, if you can demonstrate the exit of the loan that helps. Some lenders might need a little bit more documentation of exit and some need a bit more And Lewis in the chat, he's our, he's from Liberty which is one of the lenders on the loan term here and the one for the loan to value ratio is Pepper just to name a couple that there because I've got them coming along.

Well that was one of the questions people are asking are these lenders legitimate? And it's like I put in the chat, yes, they absolutely are but these.

Are, they are, Lewis is, Lewis is here, he's in the chat from Liberty. The 40 year loan term, 90% I think Katie's also here from Pepper. 90% and no risk free. So it's real, there's real people and I brought them along. So yes there can be some limits on age but typically if you can demonstrate an exit there's usually a way to be able to demonstrate having the loan term.

My finding is as long as the asset's good. They're realizing they're getting their money back that they don't mind too much these days.

Okay, next one. Now this one's not really a big game changer because I left it to last. Right. One of the things that's come out is we have had this on and off talk about offset accounts in and superannuation. Now we've got, we've had our lender for ages that's been talked about, probably ripped to shreds, put back together, all that sort of stuff. Well, I've been able to ninja around and search out and I've got two additional lenders now that I have access to. So we now have three lenders that can have an offset account in your superannuation. And I don't know whether anyone's heard about offset accounts. Now there's a couple of bad pieces of media at the moment, means they've got done for offset accounts. There's a big investigation into offset accounts because banks have not been linking the offset accounts properly outside of the SMSF space. But inside the SMSF space it's been quite restricted on the offset account since the major banks went out of the market like St George and AMP, which had major impacts on that on their offset accounts. But offset accounts can become quite powerful where now we've got more options in the market which will give everyone a run for the money. And as brokers we like more competition the better. So offset accounts can come into it. If you only understand property as your investment vehicle, which I would say that SMSF should have some diversification. But if that's the case and you don't have any, any anywhere you want to put money but you have an option and you have the lender that has the offset account, well, you have the ability to offset the interest, right? Save on the interest versus paying the interest sort of thing. But if you have other investment strategies and other advice that tells you to invest elsewhere, go for it. But if you don't have anything else, offset account can be quite powerful and we've still got a lot of lot of customers today that might have an old St. George or an old AMP where they have 100% offset on their SMSF loan but they don't want to touch their money before unless they have a strategy. So it's, it's now having more competition with offset accounts. That is the main key here with the offset accounts.

I'll tell you right now, Aaron, 90% loans, 40 year loan terms and offset accounts. If people aren't booking in to do an assessment of borrowing for their smsf. I don't think anyone can do them. Other questions seem to be answered like guys, these changes are incredible and offer a variety of new things available to investors. It's an incredible thing for the right person as we pointed out here. Now I have put the link in the chat again and I'll even put it in again if you're on this call and go, geez, this sounds pretty juicy and spicy. Book in with the team and go over your specific circumstances. We've got a few comments flying in where it's like, hey, I'm unemployed or I've got this much income or I've got this much super balance. You are the person that would benefit the most from speaking to someone on the team because they can go through your specific circumstances and help you understand what's possible for you. You. So I'll put that link in the chat again. But guys, on the basis of this it'd be very encouraging for everyone to get checked what they can do in their super.

Yeah. All right now, now we get back to my, my nice, I got some smiley faces here. Let's have a look at some scenarios. Now what I wanted to do is talk about two different scenarios around how you can operate different ways of property and maximizing your borrowing capacity inside of super are. So first one is buy, refinance, buy. All right, I had to highlight with the refinance here, no equity, right? You can refinance your SMSF loan but you can only cover the cost of the refinance. So if there's an application fee, discharge fee, things like that, you can cover that cost by refinance but you're not allowed to get any equity.

Justin. So let's explain that really well. If someone's got a property in the SMSF they can refinance it, which if that, let's say they had originally got a 30 year loan, it's been five years, now it's 25. They can refinance and put it onto a 30 year loan again and that might be a great thing or a 40 these days to bring down their payments but they can't take any of that equity out to go and buy another property. It's the equity extraction bit that's missing in there.

Yeah, but you're getting all the other benefits. Extending the loan term, extending the, lowering the interest rate because your property might have been in the market for a long time. So if we take our, our little people here and they've got their super so they go out and they buy their first property. They have that property for a period of time and the loan to value ratio becomes more favorable for the interest rate. But their loan term does reduce down. So as the loan term reduces down, no matter where the interest rate and all that other stuff is, the loan term will impact your borrowing capacity. When you want to go for a second property, then you might take the option of refinance where you're not getting any equity out. So refinance, you're not getting any equity. But we're going to be able to extend the term and lower the rate. Once we extend the term and we lower the rate, it's going to extend our borrowing capacity to then be able to use the amount of cash that we've been able to save up as this property is performed. And now we're going to save even more money to be able to be surplus, to be able to go after the second property. There's no limit to how many properties you can have in superguys.

Right. So the idea behind this one is using refinancing to bring down your payments on a property to increase your borrowing power within. Super. So you can then go again and go again.

Yep.

All right. Excellent way of growing the portfolio. I could understand that one.

There's other ways too. Like you could buy your first property, pay it 100% off. Right. Then the ownership goes to your SMSF and then you've got an unencumbered property throwing off income and that income can be used with the next property's income to be able to buy the next property with a loan. So there are some variations to this. It's not always refinanced, it's not always extending the loan term and doing all that stuff. But if you think about it on the worst case is that you need to have debt. If you've got 100 grand of debt on four properties that triple in value in the next few years, you're going to be much, far better off having 30 year loan terms on that to be able to get the four properties then only to have the one property and you paid it off. Right, right.

Let's just run that as a comparison here. It's like as an investor, I'm always looking for how I can do the best here. The strategy we're describing here is that essentially we're delaying, paying off the debt debt and then using the reduction in payments to buy more property. Because if you were to simply buy one property in your super, use your contributions and rents to pay it down and then buy another one. That's a very slow way of doing it. This is a much faster way of.

Accumulating more property and using a lending strategy. Okay, next one is the buy, sell, buy. All right, so the first one might be those long term hold properties that you never want to get rid of. But you might want to take a buy, sell, buy approach because as you can't get equity, the way to release equity in your self mini super fund is to sell the property because you get the equity in cold hard cash.

I know what you're going to say, I'm already grinning a little bit here, but this is the spicy strategy in my opinion.

It is a spicy one. Right?

But why would I want to sell property in my super?

Aaron, I'm laying it up for you anyway, mate. So super is a really interesting one. So here's the people, they've got their super, they buy their first property and now we've got an increase in value. So that's an arrow upwards for increasing value if no one knew that one. And then we've got the loan has stayed around the same and the property's gone up in value. Now that cash that we've got from the sale of the property because we have a low, this is the probably the only tax thing I'm going to say it's a low tax environment in super, which means the capital gains tax is going to be low as well. On average it's around that 10% mark versus what capital gains tax is going to be in your own name. So it has this ability to access. So if we have a client that's bought a property here at say 330,000, a few years later they have the $230,000 debt here. A few years later this Property is worth 850,000. They still have a $230,000 debt on it. They can sell it, they get their four or five hundred grand out and now they can either go for a bigger asset or they can split the 500 grand into two assets. Three assets, one big asset. They can do no asset and they can go into different, different asset classes as well depending on what cycle they are in in the property. So this example, they sell it, they might go into two, doesn't have to be two. So that's the buy, sell, buy. It can help with those properties that you need. Quick capital growth. I'm not a property person but good private quality property acquisition and good capital growth can help with this type of lending strategy.

All right, now to paint this One a bit further. There's a few influencers out there that have amassed quite the portfolios in their smsf. This is the strategy they have used to do such. So laying it down, guys. One of the things that's very challenging when it comes to doing property outside your super is the tax, right? So when you sell a property, if you do it in under 12 months, there's no CGT discount or even if you do it after 12 months, the CGT discount still puts you in a relatively high amount of tax. You've got to pay in super because of the environment. You could be paying between 10 and 15% capital gain and there's no time limit on that. I don't believe either, Aaron, you could do that and slip a property in a month or 10 years, same setup.

It's still 12 months for super because I watched that because I've got a super fund.

So you still got to do the 12 months for that to be applicable. But again, 10 to 15% rates is just wild. And then that's how you can then have the money in your super to then buy two. Because you're essentially re levering up because now you've got two deposits in that example.

Yeah, cool. So there we come to. Let's unpack those questions, Charlie.

All right, we're gonna do some Q and A now, guys. Now if you do have a question, please put it in the chat and I will put the links here again because there's a lot to unpacking SMSF when it comes into it. So if you do want to speak to someone on the SMB team about is super right for you and what would be suitable, we'll do through that. But I'm gonna scroll back through the chat. Please feel free to put some extra questions in. But I really want to make sure.

And just remember we are mortgage brokers and lending is a huge topic. Just the same as property is just the same as taxes.

All right, so we're going to cover Brad's question first because I love this question and I want to know the answer. How about fees to maintain land tax? So how is land tax treated in Super, Aaron? Is it just the same or is it treated separately?

It's so land tax is part of the accounting side, so we are lending side. So the ability to navigate land tax. Land tax is a statewide based tax. So super does have different thresholds in different states and territories. So depending where your asset is and the value of that asset, that will come into how they calculate the tax and that is More of an accounting question but it usually comes from the cash of your super. You can't really leverage to pay your more than tax.

Okay, great answer. So treated the same in that one. Next slide we've got in here is from Widya. I apologize if I've butchered your name. Is SMSF only for mum and dad or can you include your children in it? Like how many people can you have on an smsf?

So you can have up to six members in an SMSF and you, you, you will need 18 year olds typically if you're going to combine with leverage in your smsf.

All right, next one on the list here. Let's say someone's got and this is from David and I love this question David. Let's say someone's got a property in their personal name right now. They've got a bit of equity in it. Could they refinance that property and take the equity out, contribute it to their SMSF and do a strategy from there? My understanding is they could but I'd love your backup on this. I know it's a bit of an accounting question.

Can I do the answer? Yes, yes we can. We've done applications where we've refinanced a property and took the equity out and that purpose of that equity under a financial advice situation was put into their super for them to go after property. Sometimes that can come into it because self managed super fund lenders will have postcode restrictions and there's some the ways to help with leverage and things. That is a way that can help with leverage but it's usually under an advised financial planner accountant strategy because you've got to always, always pass your estimate MSF audit to be compliant and you'd.

Want to get great advice if you're doing that correct. Yeah. So this is where the multi expert approach comes into it guys. Definitely next one I've got here. Can you leverage so can you get a loan in smsf? It's still to buy property but to buy a fund rather than an individual property.

Buy a fund, yeah.

So could someone access borrowing in the way we're talking about here to buy, I don't know, an unlisted property REIT or something like that or it has to be on a know.

So the leverage that we as a as strategic mortgage brokers deal with mainly is secured lending on a property. I am aware of products that are out there for marginal lending products. I think there's a NAB product that has a lending product for shares and stuff that I can't Talk or revise on. But typically the lending for other assets outside of property is fairly restricted and the assets that you can use to use that leverage off like that marginal loan are very.

So we're going to say no. It's a bit of a different game.

It's a different game to us.

Okay, so different game. So property funds are out in that one there. Right. I'm scrolling down to the. If someone's in pension stage, can they still get a loan? So not in accumulation stage.

It's all comes down to the maximum age the lender would appreciate or tolerate your, your lending. So if we take the example of Lewis in the chat from Liberty, he's saying 85 is the maximum loan. Maximum and age you can hold. A loan has to, has to end at 85. If you've got a loan beforehand like at age 56 or 57 and it's going to expire a bit later than that. Well, it's, it's going to expire. Can you go and get a new loan? It would be nearly. You'd have to tell me why and you'd have to have financial advice on that for me if you're in retirement phase already.

All right, good. Great question. And I just want to give a shout out. Louis, who's here from Liberty, thank you so much for answering the questions in the chat about rates and things like that. Like we're here to help people and I love your sentiment and what you're doing there. So I have no influence on this but I'll try and pressure in Aaron to give you more loans, maybe like more approvals.

Right.

But I think that's a great thing. Thank you so much. Like we're here to help everyone out here. Like property is a really special thing in this country and can change lives in a big way if we get the right educational on it. Got a question from Annie here. Can I buy house and land packages with an smsf? But I think Karina's covered this one where you can't do it any type of off the plan stuff.

So it's all to do with two contracts. You can't do two contracts for smsf. SMSF has this golden rule that it has to be a single acquirable asset. And a single acquirable asset for a property is defined by one contract. So it's, it's one contract that says your Property is worth 700 grand. It's not like your land is 250. Your property's 500. It has to be the one single contract. There are some builders out there and I emphasise builders versus anyone else that you might Google to be able to convert contracts into one. There are some builders that are very nice to you that will hold the build for you at times and give you one contract and they will buy the land and build for you and they'll do it with a low deposit and things. I'd be very careful about other companies that are out there that might want to convert your contracts in because of the hidden costs and unless they're fully transparent, I wouldn't even think about it. So. So you can't do a land and a build, you can only do a contract. So off the plan is a word that isn't as dirty in SMSF as outside for some investors. But I do like off the plan too. You never know.

Does it take longer to do an SMSF loan? So we've got a great I actually don't know the answer to this one. It's a great question. Edca, I'm go with please again apologize if I've butchered your name but is the process longer? Aaron?

Not normally so most contracts in Australia will have anywhere between a 10 day cooling off period like well negotiated 10 day period like New South Wales through to a 14 or even a 21 day period with other states and territories in Australia. So there is a period of time within the finance causes that we can meet. We usually meet every time depending on circumstances or requests for more information on our property or evaluation. So typically we the quickest I've had an SMSF approved is three days once the lender's got it and the longest I've had a lender approve a loan is well how long is a piece of string depending on the complexity but on average we usually can get the loan approved within 10 days to be able to meet a new Subways contract.

All right, so lending side's about the same but I will say that setting up SF and getting your compliance and things like that can take a bit of time. So I've recently done this this and it took me about, I think it was about, I'll say about eight weeks overall to set up an smsf, move the balances, do do things like that. We've had this question a few times Aaron. Actually they got two here that I think is is good questions but I'll cover this one first is going do you have a recommendation for someone who does is a good SMSF accountant? Is there someone you work with regularly that you think is up for the challenge or Is that that depends on someone's situation.

I like to put they you just quiz them of their understanding of property investment. That that's really the main key is with lending and accountants and this is where I might get in trouble but I don't care. We need accountant in SMSF there is a need for accountant letters. How much your fund costs if it's new for some lenders, some lenders might need you to write down if you can put extra contributions in. Some lenders can do low dock smsf so you'll need to be able to get an accountant's letter for that. So when accountants understand lending they understand accounting letters where they don't understand lending, they don't understand accountants letters. So if you get challenges around accountants letters, that's one thing. The other thing that I always test every accountant on is if they tell you to run out your borrowing capacity before you buy in trusts or before you entertain. Super. I don't like that either. So, so you need property centric accountants and property centric financial planners as well.

I agree with that so much. I would even go further here is like I run a business, that's what I do. My accountant is very business owner savvy and that's why I go with him. Now all of you on this call are going to have very different circumstances. Some of you might be tradies, some of you may be doctors, some of you may not work at all. And depending on what you do and the stage of family you're at that the type of accountant you have and even the type of mortgage broker you have are going to be very important and probably different. So making recommendations on like who's the best SMSF account or things like that can be very difficult. But I'd be very encouraging for everyone to really prod the people you work with to make sure they help people like you make sure that your accountant and your financial planner like they understand property and probably do property stuff themselves otherwise that can be a big challenge in working within this stage here year. And I wish I could say that my first accountant was a fantastic experience but he wasn't. It's kind of anti property and he made my life difficult when it came to doing these things. So getting an aligned team is a fantastic thing to be doing.

And the other one is even with brokers too, the right broker. Like we do SMSF every day, we do trust every day, we do personal lending order every day, all day. People think they're capped out and they come to us. We can uncap Them. So the type of broker that you use. So the strategic mortgage broker team is. Is investor specialized brokering team. But I know that we have our craner and I run an asset brokering firm too and we know we've got Clid on the call here. So he's pretty well not in the mortgage broking space. He does asset finance. Right. So there's specialties within the group of buyer's agents, accountants, financial planners and brokers.

Definitely. And for everyone out there that's using a different broker, I'd quiz them on if they even know about the 40 year loans or the 90% LVRs in SMSF. It's just happened.

Right.

You want to know how on it your broker is. That's a great question to spot them on again. That's why you want to be working with a great team. We've got a couple other good questions in here. Are rooming houses able to be bought in smsf? They're a bit of the rage at the moment, Aaron. I'm seeing a lot in social media about them. Could you buy a rooming house in a SMSF or is that too spicy an asset?

It's getting spicy. Rooming houses get sometimes, sometimes bundled in with that nice NDIS thing. But they are getting harder to fund and harder to build. Probably more harder to build a rooming house outside of the super area but inside the super area. Established stuff. I believe we still can get some lending for SMSF rooming houses but it's going to be commercial in nature and the interest rate that I quoted before with the 30 year and the 40 year is going to be higher. It's probably going to be half to half to 1% higher on some of the commercial stuff and you're going to be mandated. You're not going to get any of those LVRs. You can to be shoving those LVRs down in the commercial space. 90% is not available, I can tell you that. That's one thing. But even with some of those specialized securities there, I have come across a lender that will help you refinance smsf. Ndis very rare. And there's only one lender I know of that can do that.

All right, we've got some more questions here. Sheena, you'll be thrilled to hear that if you've got an SMSF over 6 million, they scrapped the unrealized gains tax that's actually out. So if you're in that very fortunate position or your parents are or something like that, that policy is gone. So you can be very thrilled that, that it sounds like it might have affected you or someone. You know that's a huge win for you there. Now Lynn's asked, Lena has asked a question. In here you still need a conveyancer and all the normal things for purchasing property in smsf. That doesn't really change there and it's just the entity side of things.

Yeah that, that doesn't really change. I was reminded the other day with a conveyance recently that, that the conveyances client is your smsf. You are the person that just directs the smsf. So they have to identify your SMSF with trust deeds and the corporate registration certificates just like they would onboard you as a person with your driver's license. It's just the company registration trust deed is different. The solicitor can act for the solicitor conveyancer can act for you to buy a property in any state and territory depending on their accreditations. A solicitor is going to be additionally needed for independent legal financial advice for the loan contract. So all the lenders that I know of that I use will require you to have independent legal advice at the before you sign your loan contracts. So in, in the SMB team here I would say that if you are caught with needing legal advice by another broker or something the SMB team we, we have that built into our process that you know about that straight away.

Right. I'm going to save this one for last here Aaron. This is a bit of a, an interesting one. So it's a two sided question. So one, can we buy overseas property in an smsf so maybe a place in New Zealand as the example and two if we're an expert and we're living overseas or something like that can we buy and maybe we've got some super in Australia can we do property in an SMSF the other way around? Have you had any experience with either of those? I know they're quite unique but I'm kind of interested.

Well I suppose the asset thing about New Zealand or anywhere outside of Australia, an SMSF technically can invest in anything that's going to be income producing that single, single quiet. Right. But with regards to the, the leverage on that style of property outside of Australia you're probably not going to get any leverage. So you could use your cash to buy the properties outside of Australia. Go for it as man. As long as your accountant and the SBSF order are approved and it makes sense to you for your asset class in your super and you can pass it through the auditors that's cool for overseas expats Overseas buying in Super. Well, the rules are that your super has to be managed in Australia by a director in Australia. You're allowed to have up to. I think it's up to a two year absence from Australia before you have to come back to be able to manage the super fund otherwise they will deem you non compliant.

There you go. Well, Aaron, thank you so much for unpacking so much on self managed super funds and the borrowing side of it specifically here. I hope everyone on this chat tonight learned something. Let me know in the chat, like did you learn something tonight? Is there something new in here where maybe you're thinking about, about SMSF or Super in a bit of a different way in light of Aaron's knowledge here, I must say, Aaron, I'm still thinking about the 90 offset accounts.

No, if, if anyone wants to book in and they get me and they want to use 80, I challenge them to think about. I, I reckon we could have a chat about challenging for the 90s.

All right, well it looks like we got a lot of questions in here that people are very grateful for the time. I'll put a link in here again, if anyone does want to book in for a chat with the team team and they want to go through how this could work for them, we hugely encourage it. Be careful out there, guys. It's easy to fall into the wrong advice and I hope the ideas we've spoken to now have inspired you to take your next steps with your own wealth creation. But do it smartly, speak with the pros. All right, guys. Thank you guys. See everyone. I will say John has mentioned how often we do this. Once a month, John. And occasionally we throw in an extra set of.

Absolutely.

Have a great night everyone.

And then all the other master classes are on the website.

Oh, we, we should have put in the outro music. I forgot we were going to come out with an outro song.

Oh, we need to do the music, mate. That's what we're going for.

We had the icebreaker at the start. We're getting better at this.

All right, all right, we got.

Thank you everyone. Have a fantastic night. We'll work on the music outro next time. We have some more master classes coming up up in November and December and of course you can watch any of the other ones we've done to date on the website. Have a look at the past master classes as well.

Cool. Thanks for your time, guys.

Big thank you, Aaron.