THE BIGGEST SHIFTS IN BORROWING RULES THAT PROPERTY INVESTORS CAN’T AFFORD TO IGNORE

There we go.

Here we go, Aaron, here we go. We're all coming in the masterclass. Coming through here, guys. I can see some people have come in. Let us know in the chat if you can hear us loud and clear by taking a second to connect in now. True story, we almost started this masterclass late because we were actually talking about some policy changes off air.

Devil's under every rock when you start serving. Searching for these.

Yeah, it's quite, quite an interesting environment. It is for lending at the moment, definitely. All right, we're seeing in the chat here and people can definitely hear us nice and clearly here now while we're just allowing people to come in and of course get connected and coming through and all that, I've put some screenshots up on the screen here and Aaron, you've, you've added to these as well. But hasn't the news in the media at the moment being all around trust lending, a topic we've actually spoken a lot about this year?

I think everyone's freaking out like every two seconds I'm seeing someone freak out about something without the detail.

So I'd love to know in the chat if you've heard this in the news and what you think it means for the borrowing environment. So just let us know. Type in. Hopefully someone will. Although maybe it was too big a question for an easy type in in that regard. Yeah, Ray's been seeing it around as well.

Yeah.

Spoke to someone at Anz.

That's good.

They.

They freaking out too like.

So I'm not from. Is there a lender called Mac? There must be, Aaron. I dare say.

Macquarie bank.

That's. There you go. So that's the one people are definitely recognizing here.

Yeah, they, they had the wildest policy on trusts I can tell you. Never the same as any other bank.

I find it so fascinating my, my experience with, with yourself, Aaron and Karina and the strategic team has been that banks change their policies all the time. Like this is. Isn't really anything new.

No, we, we. I've been in the game for 13 years so I've seen the ups and downs of rates and the lending and the interest only and the, the, the banking roll Commission, the whole work. So there's nothing new, it's just more media advertised now.

All right, now I can just see we've got a little dot in our screen. I'll just clear that away. All right, we're going to let some more people in and then I think we dive into this one. This is going to be exciting. Call all right, Aaron, let's do it.

Cool. So just a, just the thing on the screen. In Macquarie bank, they were very bullish on taking money from the big banks, cba, other banks. They're seeing a big inflow of work coming to them, so they've potentially slowed it down. And also the world's not over. Like every social media person that I've heard of talking about CBA or Macquarie or what's next for trust and stuff. Stuff. So tonight we're going to go through lending strategy for 2026. So we have policy shifts, we always get policy shifts and we need to understand how those are going to help us. The good, the bad and the ugly are going to help us maximize the time that property investing is going to give us as we go into 2026. So we all need to know this stuff.

I'm excited, Aaron. I'm hoping to buy another property in 2026.

Absolutely.

Let's see how these ones work for me.

Cool. So as, as we start these things, the information provided under general advice, any advice contained in the material that we have, we have prepared without taking into account your objectives, financial situation and needs. So before acting on any of this advice, you should consider the appropriateness of the advice regarding to these matters. Now I always, I think I get the short end of the shtick whenever I have to say that. And I think you have a better way of saying that, Charlie.

Well, I'm even going to like tailor it tonight because I know we've got some what I would call spicy topics we're going to cover here and there's potentially some things in here that could be misused. So there's some policy changes that people are going to learn about tonight where if in the wrong hands, could actually do damage to their financial well being. So I'm going to put a special shout out to everyone on the call here tonight and saying anything you learn or see tonight, make sure you speak to your team of experts, like speak to people that know your personal circumstances, your personal circumstances, so they can help you decipher if it's actually a good decision for you. Now, if you don't have an expert in the area of borrowing and the stuff we're talking to tonight, then make sure you do book in a session with the strategic mortgage broking team and talk to them about your circumstances. Please, please, please do not distract on something that you get by whim and could potentially do damage to yourself in that way as well. So full disclosure guys, let's not do any damage out There. And if anyone, after hearing both Aaron's technical disclaimer and then my more. How can I put it Layman will go with I think, I think we might have covered ourselves. Surely everyone on this call can understand. Please, please don't get us in hot water for making silly decisions. Or yourself.

That's right. So who are we, Charlie? We've done what's happening. We've got the legal ease out of the way. We've got the picture from the advertisement of getting people on the call. So who are we?

Well, I must say one of the things that frustrates me I'll use instead of using another word in the current environment is often you can get onto one of these masterclasses or you can watch on YouTube and someone will make a video that sounds really good. I've watched many videos on YouTube that I was like, wow, this makes a lot of sense. But when you find out what the people behind it have actually done, kind of makes you question things. Like I've been on a few wealth webinars where people hadn't really built any wealth. I've been in different environments where the people behind the content hadn't really done it. So for myself, you know, to put my accreditation on the board here with the help of the strategic team, I've actually built a portfolio that's over 10 mil now. I think it's well over on the last valuations, Aaron, which is just wild. So I'm someone that's been through the trenches of this property investment journey. I'm very passionate about property. I love this stuff to bits. I'm a type of guy that has realestate.com open when I'm in bed and my wife will tuck over and say what are you looking at? And then it's like many people would assume maybe something racy in the bedroom. No, no, no. I'm just checking out freestanding four by two homes. I get a funny feeling that some of the people in the chat might even agree with such types of things. But that's who I am and that's why I'm here with you guys. What about you, Aaron? How do you fit in all of this?

I fit in. I am a property investor myself, but I'm a person that helps people get the runs on the board like yourself, Charlie. I spend my time talking to investors, reading and making sure I'm up to date with all the lender policies which we go through tonight. I firmly believe investors need to understand the lending knowledge, not the next place to buy, not the next accounting structure, the lending knowledge which I think is shortly needed. I've seen the positives of people making and building lots of wealth and I've also helped the people that have got themselves into trouble getting lending right and listening to some half baked video online doing something because a mate says could be turning out really wrong. So tonight we want to cover that the, the changes and how to take advantage of this. Not fluff, not theory, just real strategy that is applicable.

Let's do it.

Yeah. So what has changed? The good, the bad, the ugly. So we're hearing a lot of media at the moment, especially with the Macquarie coming out of the trust space. Please note they were the wildest policy to gain market share off the big banks. No other bank had that lending policy related to trusts and companies.

To the.

Point that they excluded their own debt when no other bank does that. So please take that in mind. There's a reason why they would want to stop some of that flow. So we're going to categorize these tonight into the positives and the negatives. We're going to cover some, some of them both and how we can then also take advantage of these positives and negatives of changes that have hit that can impact your boring capacity and we're going to take it from that angle. Yeah, we're just going to take it from the angle that you need to have a heads up for next year and how we can maximize that going forward, whether good or bad. Just remember lenders change their policies on a daily basis. Mentioned before that.

Just to clarify that you've brought my attention to this but I want to make sure everyone's on the same page to it. How often do the banks update their policies? Is this like a biannual thing, an annual thing but like in the nitty gritty, how often do banks actually change policies?

Well they can, they do and can have the ability to update it on a daily basis or if not even more frequently. A lot of the lenders calculators aren't are online now so they have the ability to tweak whenever they wish and every conditional or pre approval out there has the ability to be reassessed at the time of converting into full approval and subject to anything that's changed. So you've just got to be careful because you need to know that you've got in, in the case of people engaging with us, you need to know what is the main bank we're going to go after and what is our backup so that you don't run into trouble because what's better than any of the approvals out there is having a broker that has a backup. And yeah, they change all the time. It may be minor little tweaks, like they need less income statement over here or a little bit extra living expense over there, but it's, it can be very small little tweaks through to massive changes.

You kind of hinted on something before and I just want to go through this. I imagine some of the changes are actually regulatory. So, like, you know, maybe they got to change something because of asic. Like ASIC makes a rule, they all got to change it. You know, I could understand that. So maybe it's like cost of living in that example there. But you mentioned something before about sometimes banks change their policy to like, basically gain market share. So in the example of Macquarie, which I know we're going to be digging into in a minute, like we're, we're sitting here at the moment and talking about how they're reversing a policy, but it's like at the same time they brought it in for a very specific reason. And banks do things like this to gain market share or reduce risk, depending on what's going on in that way as well. Would you say?

Absolutely. If you, if you've got customers standing in front of you and you're a business owner or a bank in this case, would you not want to have a go at converting them into your customer? Make some money, invest in property like we're talking about tonight.

Absolutely.

Yeah. Banks are the same, they just have extra zeros in the decimal point in a different location with their profit margins. Right?

Definitely.

Cool. So what's the game plan today? I'm just going to mention it again. We are mortgage brokers. We're specialized in the investor lending space with residential and commercial. We may talk about structures or example properties, but that's nothing. That's only for us to use an example. We're going to talk about the lending side and how the lending can work related to those examples. And yeah, we want you guys as investors to understand the borrowing side of things. We're not accountants, we're not financial planners, we're not buyer's agent, but we believe that we can collaborate with those people to be able to get the right information to you for you to be able to make the right choices for what is in front of you. We want to be able to show the need that you need to understand lending and you need a strategic mortgage broker on your side.

All right, now if you could just hold your horses there. And if someone does want to talk to the strategic mortgage broking team, I'm going to put a link in the chat now. And this is your opportunity where if you want to speak to someone about your borrowing and how these policies can potentially work for you, then there is the link to booking with one of the team. So let's jump into some policies. A. I know we've got. I think we've got five positives and two negatives from memory, something in that region.

Yeah. We haven't got all the. All the changes like the nitty gritties, but the big ones that actually going to make important ones. Right. And this is the one that most people think about is can I reduce my living expenses in my bank account to increase my borrowing capacity? It's a big question we get and the answer is probably more leaning towards no, because the lenders actually have a minimum mandatory way of assessing the living expenses. So it's actually a mandatory minimum.

So this is our first policy change here and you're talking about the HEM coming up, which is actually. Was it Household Expenditure Metric Measure. Measure. There you go. Yep. It's actually written there. I really should have read that rather than try to guess. So the first policy change we're talking about is that actually, overall, everyone's going to be assessed on a higher cost of living because the cost of living is going up. So even if you're someone that's skimping and saving and eating rice and beans to make your cost of food as low as possible, at the end of the day, one of the assessments we're all going to have to deal with is actually an increase in hemp.

That's right.

How much has it increased, do you happen to know?

I've got some good examples for you.

And.

And it's increasing. So as the interest rates went up, the household expenditure measure went up, all the buffers went up, all the costs associated with your investment properties went up. Because it's not only the living expenses, it's also the property expenses. So here's some examples of what's happening with lenders today. So lenders have the. Their own way of dealing with this. They can take in account CPI or the Consumer Price Index changes the data out of some of the Melbourne institutes that are there. They can look at their current pool of borrowers and lenders and risk factors, so they can look at everyone to determine what their living factors are. Some lenders with less supporting documents will have a higher hem than the people that require you to Provide their documents which will have a lower hem. That's an interesting one. And what we find is with a example of a $95,000 income per year, the household expenditure measure between lenders will change from a low of $1,449 per month minimum to the highest lender that we have access to at2191 doll. So each len, that's just a snapshot. If we apply to one lender, they're taking 1400 bucks and another lender, they're taking 21.93amonth.

So you're actually saying the hems is assessed differently with different lenders. They all get to choose what their hem is essentially here.

That's right. And the simple way of thinking about it, if you don't have to provide your personal bank statements, the household expenditure measure is going to be higher than a bank that takes your bank statements, which is going to be lower. More evidence, more realistic you could say.

Right, so big one here, changing hems. So for someone on this call right now, their borrowing power could literally increase if they changed lender and one was more advantageous to their living costs, as an example.

Correct. And then the other thing that happens is if you add in rental income, because we're all here because we have investments. So if we add a 600 a week rental income, our hem changes for the same person only $95 thousand dollars a year and it increases. The bottom one increases from 1400 to 1700 and the top one changes from 2100 to 2500. So even just adding 600 bucks a week in rent on your personal side will increase your household expenditure measure. And let alone, let alone, we like to invest. And if we could sell our kids off sometimes, we probably would. If we add a child that's going to add another $400 a month to our living expenses on top of our already increasing living costs. Mandatory minimum.

So I know you've painted this one as a negative here as like, you know, hems are going up, which I can understand why that would be a negative on borrowing power from here. But what can we think about doing with this one here? So lender shopping is one of them. It sounds like we can cut our costs, but really increasing income across the next year is going to be important to many people if they want to buy more property.

Yeah. So the biggest things come into what, the two buckets of expenses. So lenders will have the minimum mandatory. So it'll be like your groceries and all that sort of stuff. And people may opt to have private health insurance and private school fees being a couple that are usually termed outside this minimum mandatory that have to go on top. But there are. It is really lender shopping, Charlie. So with the outside of household expenditure measures, there's banks that will give you one big bucket of household expenditure measures and ones that will give you the minimum mandatory and then you've got to add things on top. So the people that send their kids to public school, that expense is still in there even if you choose to send your kids to private school. So there's some double dipping in some of these living expenses in the calculators. But the really biggest thing to get around these and get the best out of the lenders here is to shop.

Around what's the biggest difference and then we'll move on to the next policy. I know we've got a few we've got to get through. What's the biggest difference? You've seen someone's borrowing power improve or decrease either way just between lenders on this hims point, him or hims.

So on standard calculations we can see with no other debt, we can see up to $150,000 different in borrowing capacity from the bottom lender to the top lender with no other debt, just trying to buy your first home.

Right. So there you go people, $150,000 difference just in shopping around with the right alignment to what is best for you with a him right there. So if you are hunting for pre approvals at the moment or which banks would work for you, this one in itself could be a huge win for you. Awesome. Let's kick into our next one.

Cool. Next one is around the trust and company lending shakeup that we are observing probably more in the media than what we can actually research and dig behind related to regulatory stuff. So what I've. What I've been looking at here is that we've got the hype around Macquarie exiting the trust and lending space. Just, just got to be mindful their policy was quite advantageous. If you had two or three companies and trusts you could lend via Macquarie and Macquarie would exclude their own debt. So that was their advantageous policy. There was no other bank in the market that would do the exclusion of their own debt. They would see the own debt in their whole system as the credit manager would assess the deal. So Macquarie's out there is obviously the whole social media hype and finfluencers and all these other things. But I would say that the main reason they're out is they had a Very advantageous policy that took a lot of market share and that's a really key factor there. What we're also seeing as, conversely, we've got a bit of meteorization of the Commonwealth bank restricting their trust and lending space because of the inflow. There's a lot of business on the table. When a big bank like Macquarie drops, it drops the business on the table and the other lenders have to pick up the slack. But now Commbank's now said we will only do trust and company lending if you've been a borrowing customer for the last six months, which is not uncommon to other lenders that are in the market on this. So amp, for example, you have to have $2 million worth of lending before they will lend you trust and company stuff. And that's been around for years. So there is this thing around trust and company lending that when one comes out, someone else will get a bit more restricted. But is the restrictions because there's a lot of business on the table that needs to be worked through or is there, or is there something else going on behind the scenes? And that's a, that's an interesting search that I had.

All right, I've been holding back for this one, honestly. This is the slide I've been waking waiting for here. All right, so first thing, guys in the chat, let me know, is this the topic you came to this masterclass for? Like, we've seen a lot in the news about Macquarie and these trusts. Is this the one you want to know more about? I thought, I had a feeling, Aaron, I'm seeing some quick yeses there.

We'll dig in, we'll dig in a bit more.

All right, Charlie's first question for Aaron, in your opinion, speculation and tinfoil hat on if need be. Do you think the media has just overhyped this one massively? Was it just a slow Newsweek and they needed something to promote?

Well, I always think that that's the case because the clickbait leading articles like this one got more attention because it's a big bank taking out stuff. But if you read any of the doom and gloom out there on lending or brokers or lenders or whatever, some of the clickbait stuff, you just go, why is that an article? So I, I think there's some, some, some real good reviews and regulatory stuff that'll come out of it, but it, it was very clickbaity.

Okay, so that's, that's, that's point one. We'll just sit with that. So the second thing is they're not undoing this for all the loans they've approved are they? This is something where if you've been able to take advantage of this policy then cool, you got in but it's just we're not doing it in future. So the second part I would ask here is is this just Macquarie basically protecting their book and going hey we've taken on a bit of risk here. We just want to dial this down just in case markets become too heated or I don't know the Mag 7 and AI wave takes over the world. Whatever insert outcome, you know, end of days next gfc is there any merit in they just wanted to reduce their risk?

I think there is massive.

Okay.

Yeah they were seeing some arrears, they were seeing some other things pop up on these types of lending situations that they were approving and they had a big run of money coming run of customers coming at it but they're not stopped it for the people that actually had the loans with them.

So there we go, that's a really important point there. Then they're not undoing this for people that have already got it. And then the next part of it they still are doing lending in trusts correctly. They're just not allowing to exclude the debt you have with Macquarie in this example. So excluding their own debt was the specific part of the policy that's changed.

That is, that is the thing. If you are going to. If we are going to Macquarie for a refinance of a personal investment property or owner occupied we still have their full suite of policies to self declare that your other entities that you're a director of are going positive no accounts letter. They're not looking into it any further. They still have a very speedy time frame. We we've had in the team recently a Macquarie loan get approved in an hour and a half. So they've still got all their other metrics except they're just not lending new money to trusts and companies but they are maintaining the existing lending that is already on their books for it.

Okay, can I just use an example of that? So let's say I've got a. We'll use Anz in this example. No. No reason why no bias but let's say I've got a trust with Anz and I've got. It's positively geared in this example or neutrally geared. Am I still able to silo that debt with Macquarie and do correct. Right. So it's only the lending within themselves that's the change here. You could essentially still execute this strategy across multiple Banks if you wanted to.

If you have personal lending, Macquarie is a great bank. Personal lending for owner occupied and investments. If you have lending that you want to take to Macquarie for trusts and companies can't do that. Okay, so if you've got lending and trusts and companies in another bank and you want Macquarie to exclude it via their policies and your assessment of your situation. Absolutely.

So then what's really changed here?

They don't do any new trust and company lending.

So there, there you go guys. So as investors that potentially. And guys this is the financial advice statement re kicking in within me here that please no one do a number on them here. If potentially you were relying on this strategy with Macquarie bank of being able to do the infinite borrowing strategy. So do multiple trusts with Macquarie and exclude the debt, you're not really worse off. There's still ways to do that if that was your strategy today with other banks. Now how many other banks are doing this type of lending? Aaron? Is this like there's only a few. Many do it.

There's always been a few smaller banks that don't do trust lending like bankwest doesn't, ING doesn't. So they're all little banks that have chosen a different type of lending strategy to go after speed of service, low cost, not getting any other complexities in the back end for their processing. But you've still got all like Commonwealth Bank, Nab Anz are all still doing it. What we've seen in since Macquarie's come out, their service times are blown out. Some of them are sitting at like 15 days to pick up a file, some of them sitting even longer. Some of them are actually picking and choosing which loans they want to take on or not take on. Some of them are actually canceled out. You can't get a pre approval for a trust loan anymore because of such a large amount of volume with such a large player like Macquarie coming out.

Guys, I really hope this is clearing as many things up for you as it is for me. And saying like this just seems like a lot of smoke. In all honesty it really does seem like a bit of media blow up. And I see this comment from Sean here. I think Macquarie may have pulled back from trusts partly because they want to keep their credit team streamlined and don't want the overhead of higher qualified experienced assessors that can manage the complexities of these types of applications. Sean, that holds water my friend. I actually think there's a lot in that. Can I give you a star in that? I'm going to give you a little fire Emoji.

There you go.

Because I think there's a lot in that and I'd really appreciate if other people would give Sean a little fire emoji or a star as well because I think that's a really interesting way of doing it. Now in the chat I just, I want to make sure we're communicating this really well because this has been blown out to think like investors are kind of for lack of a. I'm not even going to say it because we'll get in trouble on YouTube where ducked. Okay. Not the other word. We said ducked when in reality that's just not the case at all.

No, but what is? There 99 lenders in Australia. One's out, one's restricted, another one's got blown out. Times like we do, we as a business still have trust lending on the table for clients for residential and commercial. Absolutely.

And are there any other lenders you're finding right now are actually better to deal with trusts in more recent times.

On the service level time, like how long it's going to take to pick up a file? We're finding them. Non banks are really rocketing at this stuff quickly nowadays. Pickup times for some of the non banks and even their pricing is out pricing some of the majors on options to go to for trust lending. And we are still seeing some of their times blow out as people find that they are okay to go not to a major bank. There is a subset of the community that just wants major banks. Right. So as soon as they get educated that non banks are there, they are hammering their application over there and we are as well because we've pivoted and adapted there totally.

All right. Now I am mindful of time and how many other policies we've got to get through, but I think we covered that one well. Guys, please let me know in the chat if you have any other questions on this topic. We'll come back around to them at the end and I will pop this link in the chat once again because I'm hoping you can see this is why you gotta have an all star broker team like the strategic mortgage brokers. They are all over these types of policy changes, especially around trust stuff which is very important in today's environment for investors. So make sure you grab a spot with the team to work out what you can do with some of these policies. But let's power on Aaron.

Absolutely.

Sorry guys.

Next one. We this year brought in a reduction or reducing of lenders around the National Disability Affordability Scheme or the other common word we see is SDA which is specialised disability accommodation. And we've also seen a reduction in lenders for rooming houses and those two policy changes are specifically around construction.

Do you have any insight into why they might have brought this in?

Well, I think that the main factor I see here is that it comes down to what properties are easy to on sell. So how can the bank avoid a mortgagee in possession? I think that's the question that a lot of banks are asking. So with a national Disability Affordability scheme you might have a property that has up and down benches, lifts, railways, reinforce this, reinforce that. Big doors, big, bigger fit out that is not easily sellable to someone else.

They're very, very particular assets and I wouldn't say there's a huge market for these compared with like resi or commercial in general. The interesting thing for me on this one Aaron is in both of these cases, people that are into rooming houses which have become quite the trend, or people that are into India as builds, they actually want to do new builds because of the depreciation and you can make them specific to be advantageous. So for example with a rooming house like you can build a nine bedroom house specific to being a rooming house maximizes yield where it's like there's not many conversions or standard homes that have more than four or five bedrooms which make them less ideal for the type of setup people would do. So if you're in that space, which I'd be curious in the chat if anyone is like I actually think this is a big thing for the rooming house and ndis space I think it may change the way they go about funding in a big way.

So the, the interesting thing to take into account on this one is the construction is the one that's been impacted the most. So there is very limited to if not not many at all from ndis construction point of view. Some of the things that we've been we'll go through later on the presentation how to get around this by utilizing maybe other securities you have in your, in your portfolio if you really, really, really really want one. Private funding is another another channel and the with the rooming houses we've seen even we've had two lenders at the beginning of the year that pulled out and they used to lend 90 on this stuff. And as they pulled out basically then we went into sort of scramble. How do we get lending in this option if a client comes to us and that's where we got like our loan to value ratios now on the Construction stuff, especially around rooming houses is, is sitting on an average around that 65 for the construction. But if you flick it over to established, this is where the wild comes in. Right. So when you get established ndis and rooming houses with tenants with the, the risk decreases a lot. So it's built and it's fully tenanted. Guess what the lenders want to do when it's established?

Don't tell me it's like 90%.

Well, they're not up at that level too far now, but they will lend. Like we've got lenders up to about 75% or even 80 in NDI space for established and tenanted out rooming houses where we're seeing the same. And if we even flick into the most restrictive need and established single purchase security smsf, totally open for business.

There you go.

Yeah.

So very interesting. It's the build, but I totally get that because like if a failed rooming house build went onto the market that would actually be quite difficult to sell. That wouldn't be a fun thing to deal with. That makes sense.

Have to have big family if you're going to single occupy how that.

Yeah. Right. All right, let's power on to our next one.

Next one is positive. Here we go. We've had a bit of an expansion on people who are investors able to borrow over 90% loan to value ratio. So you can now borrow up to 95% with more lenders than you did in 2024-2025. And then I would imagine this is going to expand into 2026. Because the second point that we found in the last few weeks is that there's an expansion of no mortgage insurance at a 90% lend with a lot of lenders expanding as well.

Wow. Because I remember when we first started the idea of doing like an 88% loan would normally mean, hey, you got to kick in like 20 grand. Right. It was, it was extreme. So there's been a big flip on loan to value ratio and what the banks will accept, but then no lenders. Mortgage insurance, that's massive.

So would you like to be the sales rep of the mortgage insurance companies these days, mate?

Well, they're practically going out of business and competing with the government from what I see. Yeah.

Competing with the government, that's an interesting one. Like. Yeah. So let's say we can now have. Obviously there's going to be some caveats. What's the caveats on this one? The increased interest rate over 80% is increasing. So they've now gone lowest rate is 60%. Another rates more increase at 70, at 80 is a bit more over 80, goes up a bit more over 90, the interest rate will go up even more. So you're not getting it without a little bit of extra costs.

So that's where they're kicking you. Right? So instead of paying lended lenders mortgage insurance, they're just putting a couple of points on your interest rate. Now Michael, in the chat here is basically said the comment that I think we should all be thinking of right now, which is like wait, what? Like this means 10% deposits are kind of becoming a norm here rather than 20, which many of us in this chat and on this webinar tonight will have had to deal with in a big way. Now we see, and I normally save the questions from the end, but this is a really good one. Is it only specific lenders doing this or is this becoming more broadly adopted with these policy changes?

We've seen more. It's, it's a lender starts off and then it expands. It's always how it goes. Um, it's either the wait and see or you're the first runner. So we are just seeing an expansion. There's, there was like your, your non banks like Resume Anz and now CBA and now with some of the no mortgage insurance, there's some, some of the non bank ones. But what we're seeing there is there are some caveats that some of the lenders have come out. So one might offer you interest only at 90, 95% and another one may not see that as favorable risk to them. So they may mandatory you at principal and interest. So there's nuance behind the scenes. So you might get away with a lower entry deposit. But if you're only qualifying for a bank that you wish to have interest only and you're now mandated for principal and interest, that might hurt you on the other side. So it might reduce your deposit and you were expecting one cash flow outcome and then you get a different.

I'm just going to put it out there though and I don't want to spoil future slides or strategies here. But guys, when I see a policy like this, I'm looking at this and I'm going, hey, this is a very advantageous policy change that might allow me to acquire a property. Like maybe I've only got enough for a 10% deposit right now. Now I know that I'm going to get stung on the interest rate short term, but I don't plan on having this loan long term like most of Us as investors like will refinance. Now, I imagine if you pick well with your property and you wait a couple of years, you'll likely be able to refinance onto an 80% loan at a lower rate anyway. If you pay down some debt or rents go up as well, things would change on that property where you could essentially move it into a more compatible loan. So this is very much a can I acquire the next one policy change. Can this get me to my next property quicker? Because if it was gonna. In this example here, the difference between saving for a 10% deposit and a 20% deposit might be a year. If you bought it with a 10% deposit, well, and you've also got a year of growth baked into that, it could very much be worth it. Like being able to move quickly and then restructure later is the magic of where these policies can come together. And I will say not financial advice one more time. And I feel like Karina's watching me here. I hope the regulator is not on this webinar. Charlie, keep your mouth shut. Yes, I will.

So this is where the right, the right people behind you to choose your right property. Because if it goes up in value, what is 90 today turns into 80 tomorrow into 70 the next day. And at times you can take the 90% lender and if you like their app and you like their functionality, sometimes it's just a call to the broker, get another valuation, get that submitted to the pricing team and away we go. We we're now reducing our interest rate. So there's a, there's a little positive tip for everyone.

But this is why I love the idea of just a higher interest rate because with the lenders mortgage insurance you have to pay that 20 grand up front. If you're just going to clip a couple of points across the year, I couldn't care less.

That's it. Pay over time.

Huge win there guys. And I hope you can all recognize the power of this. And if, if you're not. Guys, this is leverage on tap here. Let's get excited.

You know what? I brought an encore back from last masterclass. If anyone's here from last masterclass just put a, put a yes or a thumbs up in the chat but I brought back for an encore self managed super fund loans going up to 90% loan to value ratio, no mortgage insurance, no risk fees, a clip on the interest rate. And one lender that I got described the other day. I was talking to one of the lenders and she said they took our policy and they added Another policy. And those two policies had a baby. So now there's a lender that has 90% and a 40 year loan term. Let's put that one in there. I love this. This is, this is gold. You should be getting your SMSFs at 90.

This deserved an encore. It was such a good change. And Michael in the chat again, I feel like Michael gets me. I saw his policy, his comment before, it's like I'll take five. Exactly. That is huge because just to go briefly into this, one of the downsides of superannuation is you can't use equity loans.

Can't do it, right?

So there are no equity loans. So the idea of being able to use a 90% LVR or a 10% deposit means that you can very well set up your loan term so that you don't have as much equity locked up in a property and can potentially use that for other things. So in the extended loan term and that's just a fantastic opportunity and the.

Extended loan term, you don't have to have 90% to get a 40 year loan term. You could refinance an old St. George or National bank super loan, get a 40 year loan term and increase your borrowing capacity and that pay by the pay over the next 12 or 24 months. For your, for both these positives, this positive and the previous one is it may only cost you 6 to 12 grand to take these higher interest rate, higher LVR loans without the mortgage insurance which means you're saving more money back in your pocket for the cash flow for a small Renault, for whatever you need to do to the property to get it to a point where you want it to be.

It just is a very self serving question. By chance is Macquarie one of the banks that offers this type of loan?

Macquarie used to do SMSs but not anymore.

As I say, I'd love their winding trust down and they're doing this because it would be very funny to see it in the same. This is a very risk on policy here, right?

We do, we do have a major bank that can offer you a self managed superfund loan but they don't advertise it. The main criteria for, for it is that you have to have a minimum of $5 million of net assets to be able to be having a conversation with them.

They go a bit secretive. It's like Fight Club. First of all, the Fight Club you don't talk about Fight Club.

Just talked about Fight Club, didn't I?

Okay, so Belinda's asked a great question in the chat right now. Of going. Does this apply to commercial as well or is this only for resi this long term here.

So so with self made super funds commercial is still up to 80% net of the GST. So for self made super funds for outside of superannuation funds for commercial we do have the option to go to 80% loan to value ratios on commercial for outside and inside self managing funds.

Right. So still an improvement but you don't get the 90% correct. Okay, a little bit of a difference there.

How cool would that be?

Now cerez here, which I hope I pronounced your name correctly. If not I apologize in that there are some heavy restrictions on what you can buy in an SMSF and you've put two in here about develop and Renault flip. You definitely can't do those in smsf. So value add strategies are not for smsf. That's stuff you would want to organize in other structures. But please speak to an accountant about that because there's a lot of tax implications depending on what route you go there.

So very important one, the right asset for the right structure.

Absolutely.

Cool.

Next one, hold on a second there. I'm just going to put pop this link in here again as well because hopefully people are getting excited about some of these policies. Now if you have seen some of the things in this presentation so far and you would like to speak to someone on the strategic mortgage broking team to see how they apply to you. And this is our big disclaimer at the start, like we know the policies, we don't know you. If you want to see how these apply to your specific situation, jump in and grab a call with the team like get your borrowing power done. And see in this example here like could you actually get a property in your super maybe or could you do a refinance and take advantage of some of these policies here? So I'll chuck that link in again.

This one plays into how this is all going to come together a little bit. But no servicing refinance rules are changing this year. So back in 2024, I think it was 2023, 2024 they introduced this mortgage prison thing where people couldn't refinance out of a high rate loan even though they could afford to repay it. So what they came out with is that they're able to now look at your repayment history, that you have an income you've been able to repay on time and if their new loan is going to put you in a better position than your old loan, they just approve you. The other thing the Response one lenders come out with easy refinance they call it and they don't have any servicing rules to be able to refinance. It's dollar for dollar and costs. And then the response of the major banks was just to remove the buffer. So when you borrow new money you have to jump over a higher hurdle, say 3% over the current rate. So their response was to lower the hurdle for dollar for dollar refinances. So in 2025 more lenders came on the market. We got 13 lenders that do the expanded 1 1% buffer and then we've got 2, 3 lenders that can do the no servicing refinance.

So this is a great change for people that perhaps got themselves in positions with their loans. Who does this apply to the most? Aaron, who do you think wins from this one the most?

So everyone talks about this thing online like the the dti. So I've had a client come to us that's had a DTI of 14 which is massive, right. And they've got high interest loans, they've got everything. And the only way to put them in a better position is to use the no servicing rules because they don't look at dtr, they don't look at anything, they look at how good you are with your debt versus anything else. And, and that could be like self employed. You might heard to take a low doc one you may have had to take something that's had to you could get the next property. So you might have got lender of last resort. It's going to charge you 8% in the current environment, gets the last property, you take that hit for the first 12 to 24 months and then you can refinance it without needing to hit the hit the hurdles of the refinancing buffer. But the big thing around the no servicing rules change is that they've reduced the requirement for you to demonstrate that you actually have an income. So there is really ninja changes in the back end. So you used to have to provide a payslip and some bank statements and stuff. They've actually minimalised that even further because of how good the loans are when you refinance from a high rate to a low rate when you can't meet the standard metrics of borrowing capacity.

I wonder if anyone's picked up in the chat here that banks are actually trying to make it easier to give us money.

I want to refine it. If you've got the money, let's make it easier to get the business right.

Absolutely. Like these are very Pro borrowing policy changes in my opinion. Like it's not like we're sitting on this call and going everyone's like boarding up. It's actually quite the opposite where if you're someone that's wanting to get into a position to buy a property, it's a great time to be getting involved.

That's it. And the next positive thing, I wonder how many people in the room would think that this is negative for us as property investors. So it could be negative, it could be positive. I put in the positive but I'm happy to be proven wrong that this is really, really negative. Right. So the first time low deposit schemes expanded to high income earners, it's expanded to 60 to 70% of the property market's purchase price as well in Australia. And now we're going to have who was a first home buyer that was going to come in eight to 11 years in the future now can come in two to three years earlier. So I put this in a little bit of a positive bucket because we get more people that get a property than more people in the market. Market goes up, everyone's winning with some wealth creation whether owner occupied or not. But we could look at this as a negative that we're going to have increased competition on the properties that we actually want to buy. Right.

This is a very polarizing topic, Aaron. Like I'm sure you've read many things.

So yeah, go for it.

I just fun fact. It's like one of the things I find really interesting is the 2008 housing crisis. A lot of people don't know where all those bad loans came from. Was actually President Clinton trying to do something really good in helping people get into homes with low deposits. Right. They wanted to make it easier for people to buy homes. Right. And they loosened up lending policies and well, we all know where that went. But this is where a government had a really good intention and as a byproduct got very loose with lending and it went too far. But I will say my understanding is that our system and setup is far more sophisticated where that type of thing can't really happen here. So I'm not really concerned about the idea of does this cause another GFC or anything like that, which I've seen some speculation. But I will say depending if you are someone that maybe owned property in these areas before this policy came in and you probably got a nice little win, you're probably loving life right now. If you're someone trying to buy in these price packets, it's actually quite painful because it increases policy change. But all in all I am uncertain where this leads to. I think it's a bit early for me to call.

It is. I've got a little bit more extra data put around it because I was trying to find another podcaster I listened to to try and find how much extra lending dollars in terms of one asset class in Australia. So property being one asset, you can do shares and all that other stuff, right? But how much this increases the amount of money flowing into the asset. So treasury thought that over the next six years this is only going to increase property prices by 0.5%. So I'm really like, that's really interesting.

I think it's probably done that by now.

Other independent sources are saying that it could be 95% increase on the entry level pricing, but it represents about 20,600 to 39,100 additional first home buyers. And if we assume an average loan size of 700k, this could inject 14.4 billion to $27.3 billion of extra lending dollars into just one asset in Australia called property. That's interesting.

I will say antidotally for myself I have some properties in areas that you would call a few, I've got like three in Australia that will be in some of these areas and I have seen numerous of these properties go up about a hundred grand in the last couple of months. Like there's been a very significant shift at that price point. So and it's kind of got like this knock on offender. It's like it's booming from the bottom up. It's like very rippling through. But I've certainly felt the impact. Has anyone else in the chat felt the impact like really quickly in this segment? Because there hasn't been a great job of any data coming out on these types of properties yet. It kind of gets blended in with the averages and the medians.

Here's an interesting, interesting take. Just as a bit of a disclaimer. Just remember first home low deposit schemes, not an investment strategy. I have to say that from the get go because it's for first home buyers that have a limited deposit, not first home buyers that have a large deposit, not a property investor that can dump a large deposit. Right? This is the minimum you have to have is 5%. But if you have more money in your savings greater than your, the rule of thumb is you're not allowed to have more than $30,000 post the purchase of the property. You're not allowed, if you do your, your minimum of 5% becomes 6% becomes 10% plus becomes 15 and then you don't need the scheme. Right. So it's all designed for you. If you have a hundred grand and your deposit's only ten grand, you've got to put there the, the rest of the money in bar 30 grand. So it is designed around people that have a low deposit and I've talked to a couple of people that may not have had a low deposit recently. And the banks actually come knocking after settlement. So be careful. This, this loan, this strategy is not, is to be aware of about our property investment portfolio, not a scheme to help property investors.

Just have to put that there totally. It's definitely not in that way but I think it does add demand which helps investors in other ways. So I can see the pros there as well. But let's power on Aaron. I know we're probably going to get some questions as well.

So we want to, we want to be able to take advantage of this. So how do we, how do we take advantage of this? Well, this is where I've talked about this before on other masterclasses and we talk about it with our clients all the time. Especially if we have to take a loan that isn't as advantageous right now, but it gets the job done to be able to do something creative. So I call it the two step advantage and we may even see this as a three or even a four step. I just call it the two step advantage because this is what we can do and I've created a little triangle for us. So if we're going to go out and we need to buy a property and we need 90% and we need to have less deposit there, we can acquire the property and then as the property changes over time, we can then refinance the property, revalue, refinance the LVR changes, interest rate changes, we can use the non servicing things, we can do a whole range of Colorado things there. And then as we've got this first acquisition which is a high cost, we get a bit lower cost or we get it longer term. Wherever the outcome is, that lowers the overall cost and allows us then to get assessed again and then we can go back to the acquisition. So I can give you some real examples on that. But this is the process cause getting new money is harder than refinancing money as we talked about.

So you're highlighting the point here that it's like some of the policy changes we've spoken about, they're not actually favorable long term. So great example is the 10% deposit, it's like, it's great you can buy a property, but the downside is you've got a higher interest rate. So as investors, the thing we've got to wrap our head around is no longer do we just buy a property with the loan we're going to have for the life of the property. We actually gotta be thinking, well, when are we refinancing? How does this policy affect my future borrowing? How am I turning this disadvantaged situation into an advantaged situation down the road? Right, that's what we're getting at here. Maybe use an example on like the 10% deposit one here.

So the 10% deposit one, let's say our interest rate incurs us an extra cost of 6 to $12,000 without, let's say we didn't get mortgage insurance or anything like that. So we took it out at 90%. We have to repay the loan, right? So in the first year it might cost us six grand, in the second year it might cost us twelve grand overall before we can refinance to a lower loan to value ratio or a lower loan area. That is so you could buy $700,000. The repayment would, the repayment change is 6 to $12,000. Then we've saved our money, we've handled the cash flow, we've been able to refinance and then we go from an interest rate of say six and a half, 7% down to say 5.8, 5.9 area depending on the lender. That's a big change. So we can get the high rate, then we're back down to low rate. So it works for the 90% LVR area, revaluing the properties over time going back to the same lender. Usually if you get a 90% loan and you feel like your property's gone up in value. I've got a client that I'm chatting with in January. We did a purchase in July. The valuation's already come up to we bought at 90%. The valuation is now equivalent to 70% but the bank won't let us change that until they've been with the bank for six months. So when you're buying in personal land, pay the extra on the interest rate, do a refinance as soon as you can and legally able to to rejig the interest rate in SMSF land. I would highly recommend going back to the SMSF masterclass with last month. But basically it could cost you the same thing, 6 to 12 grand extra to hold the property in 12 to 24 month time. Revalue as you need to in SMSF you have to revalue for compliance purposes. So you may as well get the refinance, interest rate deductions and costs overall reduced whilst doing that. Trusts is another one. If you are buying a property in a trust, sometimes you're actually using equity from another property that's outside of a trust. So if you've got a property outside of a trust, you've got equity that could be considered the startup capital to the trust or that business adventure called property in your trust. So you could actually look to in the future revalue the property. So you might have bought it at 500, put 100 grand of your own money in as the property increases in value to say 700. You can get that 100 grand that you put into the trust to start up, put it back into your owner occupied mortgage for example or another investment property. Then your trust has got its own mortgage at 500 and maybe a little bit of extra coin sitting in the trust for any rainy day. So you can actually acquire a little bit more complex, complex and then restructure as the property goes up in value. The personal use of the personal lending we talked about there troublesome properties like your rooming houses and NDIS's if you've got an unencumbered property, if you're lucky enough to have an unencumbered property, if you want to build one of these funky things, you could potentially use a property that the bank would like, get the cash out and then go build a property that maybe the bank doesn't totally like until it's an established property. So getting the acquisition right and then refinancing it back to where it should be and then that allows you to level up again from there and play a better game.

Guys, I hope you can all see right now in today's world of property investing, this is why you need investment specific broker like to simply work with any broker and try and play. The game of investing in property in my opinion is broken, completely broken. Like you need a powerhouse team like strategic mortgage brokers. I myself will go on the record here and saying there's no way I could have put this my portfolio together without the team here. So if you are someone that's wanting to build a property portfolio and hopefully Aaron can get his slides back up. We're not sure what's happened there. Got a technical difficulty. There we go, we're back on.

Sorry about that guys. I don't know.

It's all good but I'll ramble on while you get back to your slide here. But the point being, guys, book in a session with the team because it's becoming more important than ever to be really well planned out, not just with one purchase, but how it plays into the next. And if you work with the wrong broker who doesn't understand this stuff right here about using different products to acquire properties and then when to refinance them, you'll find that you end up going a lot slower than you perhaps want to. Right. So that's my personal experience. I'm a big advocate, big, big advocate as you can probably tell. And even now I'm gearing up to do some more things myself. But I highly encourage people here to take advantage of just the super brains this team has when it comes to borrowing and being able to get you to where you want to go with your property investing and borrowing.

Right.

We're going to open up some Q and A now, some qa. Yeah. So if anyone has any questions to any of the policies or just broking in general or money policy in general, we're happy to take some through but otherwise it's been quite a session.

Aaron, it's change changes, they're making the difference for us in investing. Right.

We have a very interesting one Aaron here from here first question, any changes around medico lending?

So Medigo lending usually gets put in the bucket with accountants and lawyers and obviously Medigo. Not many changes in that space. It's already sits at 95% without mortgage insurance with most major banks. Slight changes between the banks. Some banks will allow you to do medico no mortgage insurance at 90, 95% in trusts and some will restrict that to own your personal name. So there's multiple lenders, there's multiple options for the Medicare lending. It is a great, great space. If you can hold back your cash and just do the 90, 95% it will allow you to build your property portfolio further and if you get busy with your job or anything like that, at least you've been able to hold back a lot of deposit to be able to buy those next properties.

All right, hopefully that answers the question there. We've got the next one here from Arzan. Do you do development loans? Aaron, do you do anything in the development space? I believe you do, but clarify so.

We, we can do some stuff in the development space. It will depend on what you're doing. Would love to take that one offline and we look at developments case by case because there's some that have good appetite, good, good cover, good rates, good everything and there's some. That is a bit of cowboy out there with the development loans.

Okay, next one from Ready now? Ready. We did actually answer this one before but it seemed to be quite the popular topic so we'll answer it again. Aaron, are there any restrictions on trust lending cracking up Big portfolio strategists expect you to grow this more concerning is it, is it more concerning in 2026.

I try to put it into the sphere of commercial lending as well as residential lending. I think there's going to be a bit of a shake up on the residential property into a trust. Commercial seems to still sit inside of trusts as the best way to use what we call the lease dock lending because lease doc lending is probably the last hurrah of unlimited borrowing capacity but not many people have unlimited deposits because you usually need a 40% deposit in that space. So I would say usually with commercial lending we want that into a special purpose vehicle like a trust and a company because it's well in excess of what your personal lending is going to be because it's all assessed on the rental income you get from the property to get approved. So I think if we take the lens of commercial lending space trusts and companies are still going to have a place going into, into the future. Will we see lenders do what Macquarie did and CBA do? Absolutely we will because there's a lot of volume for this type of lending out there. Will we see APRA and other people tap people on the shoulders to have a look at stuff? Absolutely we will. Will we see even the complaints regime, AFCA and things get involved? Absolutely we will but I think there'll be some changes, some restrictions and I don't think it's going to be off the table. It may be off the table for like high lvrs, things like that.

I just want to put a point here is like guys, I don't think the trust lending thing is the difference in you making it or not. I really don't. Don't get me. It's a nice little sprinkle on the top but at the end of the day there's so many other levers to pull that are important with growing a portfolio that I don't think that the trust landscape is the end of days for anything. I think in fact it's the best time ever for property investors when you look at some. Would you rather Trust lending or 10% deposits? Well, I know which one I'm more interested in or 40 year loans. Like, like that's some stuff that can make monumental difference Here and, and you.

Can'T buy a resident, especially a residential portfolio or even any portfolio without you being able to have an income. Right. And there's some pretty ninja ways on how to get your borrowing capacity up. We've got some previous masterclasses on there and I think Karina's been putting some links into the chat on how to increase your borrowing capacity and obviously number one is increase your income. And then there's some other ninja ways of how you can creatively structure things. But I think, I don't think it's the end, I think it's the beginning. I think the property markets are beginning something special. The harder it gets for people to get money. I think our properties go up in value. Right.

I think people forget banks share prices are generally tied to their ability to lend money. They want to lend money.

Anyone? Anyone shareholder of a bank here?

I think we probably all are in our super. If I had to guess. But anyway, next question from Belinda. Did I hear you mention if you use 100k of your own funds to buy a property in a trust, you can withdraw those funds down the line and use towards your personal property?

Yeah, it's. So if you needed to take 100 grand of your own cash and you put it into a trust, I'm excluding Super. Don't even think of super that way. It's a trust, straight trust that you own and control. You can take the 100 grand, use it as startup capital in your trust, use that as a deposit for the 20% plus stamps and cost, get an 80% loan in the trust. As that property goes up in value, we revalue it, we get that 100 grand back out under the normal lending criteria and because it's noted as money that you loan to the trust that's come back to your own personal land.

There you go.

Never to do with Super. That's super different Total. That's a big no.

No, you can't get that one back out.

But yeah.

Our next one here from Nicholas. Do you expect Majors to follow Macquarie's lead and trust based lending to become the space of tier 2 and 3 lenders? What is the rate premium on two tier 2 and 3 lenders? So do you think the bigger banks, the big four and even some of the seconds are going to get out of trusts and it's going to become third tier lenders and do you think there'll be a rate premium on that, Aaron?

I think we're seeing the rate premium in some of the spaces like Anz and Nab. At the moment on the trust lending as well as the service times blowing out. The non banks do survive off volume so I, I haven't seen them move as quick. They might blow out their service times right now with the current level there. I think non banks are always going to be a bit more flexible on policy and things because it's the only way they can compete with the big players like your CBAs and Macquaries and that.

Absolutely. And take advantage of it guys.

Yeah. And there are some cheaper lending than some of the majors.

I just like to always imagine, right, imagine you're going to buy a house and you're going into like think of it as a food court. But it's banks go in there and all the banks are in there and they want your business for lunch. Right. And you've got, you know, you made your franchise over here. If you're one of the little guys you got to do something different if you want people to buy the food with you. And I think we'll continue to see creative policy be there for us to enjoy. I'll put it that way. All right, we're going to go with SID next. Do you have any calculators to look at if you should transfer properties into your personal name to trusts to free up serviceability? That is a very good question.

Oh, I love that question. The, the thing with moving properties from one entity to another and that could be buying it out of your super fund. It could be moving a property from your own name to a company or a trust. It could be the trust to your own name and things. Because interesting. If we, if we are getting restrictions on lenders, no one has a crystal ball like could we get them out of our trust if we needed to keep borrowing? Right. That's an interesting flip on the whole news article. There's a new clickbait for anyone. Not really. I don't think it's out there.

Aaron. There's actually. I would make the case that there's actually merit in this if for some people they need their tax circumstances have changed and they need it for negative gearing or I would look at it, land tax situations can have this be very interesting as well. So like this is why it's such a good question. It's not just about serviceability. There's so many layers to why you would want to move structures. Now before you jump in one more time, if you like Sid, have a really specific questions around something like that, do make sure you book in with the strategic Mor broking team because like that's something where they would have to go through your circumstances and do like a cost weight analysis. But power on out.

Aaron. So I'll give you, I'll give you the gold to the assessment of this. If you need the bank's money to do the transaction of moving property around, you need your borrowing capacity done. And what's better off is if you book in for a meeting with us, we can do your borrowing capacity. That enables you to open the door and spend some money on the additional collaborative advice that you're going to need because there's going to be tax implications, there's going to be stamp duty, there's going to be those forecasting conversations there. But you're better off having your borrowing capacity up your sleeve. Done from a broker point of view. Then you go to your accountant and then you can do the forecast on what the costs of doing this is going to be. And you already know what the valuation of some internal banks that are going to go and help you out with this transaction. And then if you need any further advice with buyers, agents, financial planners, more accountants, at least you can spend the money in confidence knowing that you have the borrowing locked away with evaluation so that we can all collaborate together. Because this isn't just a broker question. This has got some tax implications too.

Totally. It's a really. Sid, such a good question. I've got a funny feeling you should book in. All right, let's have a look for our next questions here. All right. Sorry guys, it accidentally scrolled to the end here. Rick, I'm going to skip your question because I feel like we just answered it with like yes, trusts will likely have tightened lending experience before. So that's already been done there. Anthony's asked a question here. CBA just last week told me that even if a trust is neutrally geared, they will have that as part of the consideration as I am the director of the company that the trust is in. So every loan will impact my borrowing capacity because I will be liable if there is no rent. So Aaron, how do you respond to that?

It's a, that's always an interesting question that can come up. So there's, I've seen a few. So the, the lending policy for what I've seen with cba they went away from utilizing accountants letters for, for excluding trusts that have been assessed third party from accountants to. They changed it to self declared that it's running positively. And then recently with some of the changes of needing six months of lending with CBA to be eligible for a company trust loan, they've re instigated the accountants letter as well. So whereas Macquarie will lend you personally and you can self declare all the other trusts and other banks into the world. Now CBA has reversed their decision, put the accounts letter back in and have put a little bit more scrutinizing on the trust and accounts letters. The thing that can happen when you go through an application with a bank, any bank, is that if they hint and sniff at something that's not totally right, they will subjectively ask you for more documents. And what I'm seeing is that if a lender is not happy with an accounts letter, not happy with the declarations or anything, they will probe and prod into what's happening in that trust. And what we've got is that there are some actual, some banks outside of CBA that actually use this to the advantage to be able to extend the borrowing capacity again. Whereas if the trust is running say five grand negative and you earn 100 grand a year, we have some lenders that we can disclose. Your trust is running at five grand negative a year. That means now your income's gone from 100 grand to 95 grand, which still extends your borrowing capacity. But you're doing it in a, in a way that you're not trying to avoid and exclude trusts. You're trying to put your whole situation down totally.

All right, I'm going to skip to one that I just want to answer really quickly here. Azran, I missed the first 30 minutes of this session. Will there be a recording to view? This is the only one I'm actually qualified to answer, so we'll go with it.

I defer to your magic.

All right, ready for this one? You wouldn't believe it. Yes, there will, there will be a recording of this, guys. And we also keep the recordings of our other sessions which Karina's kindly jumped in here and put a link in for our resources. So if you do want to watch perhaps the trust focused session we did the other month, we've got some things on smsf, then please make sure you follow that link there and you can watch some of the previous sessions or this session will actually be up soon. So thank you for the question. You can absolutely see some of these things and I think will be very helpful. And just one more time I will put in a link down the bottom here. Again, obviously you guys can see just how knowledgeable the strategic mortgage broking team is and how specific they can get to your situation. So it'd be really encouraging of people to book in Here, particularly around what Aaron's got on the slide here to see how a two step strategy could really work for you. It's something I've used with the strategic team many times and it's worked really strongly for me. But let's dive into a couple more questions before we wrap this one up. I will just make a comment from Cerez has put in here. CBA shares and Macquarie shares have gone down 10 to 15% since 30 October.

Might be something in it, might be maybe some headwinds on whether the policy is going to change to be able to invest. Right. Oh, wait a minute. That's the general advice question.

All right, so we've got a couple of questions around this. If someone does move a property through structure for maybe personal to trust or trust to personal or whatever it is in that way, what are the implications with CGT and stamp duty?

Yeah, those need to be factored in because you're going like a trust is its own entity. So I got it described really well from a conveyancer colleague of mine. When she takes on a trust loan, you are not the client. The person that is the director of the trust is not the client. The client is the trust deed, the document and the company that's her client. She's just getting instructions for you on behalf of the paper document that can't talk to her. So it's its own entity. So when you move from one entity to another, you're selling it from one to another. So there's implications of a stamp duty, potentially capital gains tax, potentially discounts and all that stuff. So I would reemphasize if you are looking at doing that. We do the borrowing capacity, we do the valuation to accommodate the worst case and then you go get proper accounting advice on whether that should be done or not.

There you go. Next one here from Jody. This is a good question, Aaron. What are the fees for mortgage brokers? Right, so someone's asking specific to you, how do you get paid if someone works with you is what they want to know. And that's a great question. I think everyone should understand how people make the money.

We charge millions of dollars to come and talk to us. No, not really. So we like applications. We love to do a strategy where we are focused on your purchase in front of you and that you have the capacity to do the next purchase because that in, in sales that we can potentially do two transactions for you or three or four or five, we want to be focused on you to get you to Your next goal, that helps us be more efficient. That helps you. We make a lot of, well, we make a lot of money out of doing applications and settling deals, but we don't want to be categorized as a transactional broker. So for people starting out in the investing space, if you've got one, two, three properties, we are very efficient to be able to help you unlock your broker borrowing capacity and get your next property. And we want to demonstrate that to you. So typically speaking, most of the time we are under the commission basis of the banks. But if the complex situation comes up, usually in the family law, estate planning, just a self managed super fund loan. If you just come to us with a self managed super fund loan, some of these more complex things or massively complex strategies, developer finance, all this other stuff will probably have a brokerage fee of some sort either built into the loan or upfront disclosed up front. But most of the time for everyone that's come on to any of the investment masterclasses for the last 12 months, generally speaking, everyone's under the same commission model. It's only the funky stuff that takes a lot more time that we need to help further with. More time than doing multiple customers.

To simplify that, most of the time it's the banks who actually pay the brokers. That's right. So I'd say in 99% of cases it's the banks that pay the brokers. It's only if you're going to do complex developing or SMS stuff or really, really funky needs. That's where some fees can come into it. But in general, Jody, it's the banks.

The banks pay us. We're actually cheaper than having a branch open basically.

All right, so Ray's asked a question here. Are you a fiduci. I can't even say the word that is distant. Fiduciary broker.

A fiduciary broker.

I'm not actually sure what that is.

Oh man, do I have to? I haven't been to English for a while and my kids are going to doing essays and stuff at the moment. Fiduciary broker.

All right, we might have to come back to you on that one. All right, we might grab one here. And I just see a comment from Sandra. I had an appointment book, spoke to someone, hopefully had a good time speaking to them but there was no follow up. So apologies. Sandra. Sometimes life happens. We're still human. But hopefully one of the team can jump on this now and get in contact with you and they'll, they'll sort you out. So nothing Intended of there. I'm sure we'll be able to get that one fixed up for you. All right, and then our last question. I saw a good one.

I got the fiduciary meaning.

All right, we can answer this one for our finish. Our finisher then, Aaron.

Legally, ah, a fiduciary is around the best interests. So mortgage brokers in Australia are under the best interest duty legislation wise. It wasn't. It came in recently legally. But we've always. I've. I've taken an approach for the last 13 years that we act in the best interest of our clients. So a fiduciary broker. Are we fiduciary? We are acting in the best interest of our clients and we are also now legally liable to do so.

There you go. Should we wrap this one up?

Yeah.

Stuart. Thank you everyone for coming on to our call tonight. I still haven't worked out a theme song for the extra of these master classes. I really wish I had prepared that.

In this moment we get music.

We'll get some music into the next one. So some quick reminders to everyone that's been on this call and thank you. Ready for the love heart that come across this screen just there. I've put the link in a few times, guys, but please make sure you do book in with one of the teams to speak about your borrowing needs. So get your borrowing power done. See how these types of policies could actually work for you and how you can set yourself up for a big 2026. I think you'll see that there's some massive changes here that can be taken advantage of. In addition to that, it's very nice to see some familiar names in here. And if anyone else does want to check out the other sessions, Karina's also put in the chat where you can go and see those ones as well. So big thank you for everyone being on here tonight. That's it for us. Any final words from you, Aaron?

No book in. We're happy to help.

Awesome. There will be more of these sessions coming up soon, guys, and plenty more planned for 2026. But as for tonight, that's it for us, right? You know, Aaron, I was going to quickly pick a song, but then I realized that we could get in trouble with YouTube and they'll get the damn copyright strikes against us. All right, guys, get out of here. Thanks for having a good night with us. I've put in the link for anyone that wants to book in again, but thank you for joining us.

All right, see ya.