THE BIGGEST BORROWING CHANGES THAT COULD MAKE OR BREAK YOUR 2026 STRATEGY

How many people? It's like old boomer suburbs. They age out. Like, people go into homes and stuff. So older homes really do come onto the market. So that's the trend here anyway.

All right, I'm gonna let people in.

Let's do it.

We're on it.

All right. Good evening, everyone.

Hopefully people can start to see us through. We'll let some names in here. I love it how Zoom just does the rushing of people. It keeps it exciting.

Now, do let us know in the chat, guys. We'll do a quick sound check here. I think things should be all good, but if you can hear us, please let us know.

I'll keep plenty people in as we go.

I can hear you, Charlie.

Well, that's. That's lucky.

All right, Grant's in the chat here. Thank you, Grant. Gotcha, Davina. Loud and clear. Whose microphone sounds better? Is it mine or Aaron's?

Oh, now we're on. For young and old.

Loud and clear. I am not allowed to say. Okay, cool.

Charlie's. Good, because it was expensive.

It's more expensive than mine.

Thank you for making me feel a little bit better about that purchase. And thank you to everyone who's joining us tonight. Not to talk about microphones, but of course, all the things that are happening in property. And I love this slide you've put together here, Aaron, because.

Two weeks ago we were talking about the Macquarie Trust scenario, and in the last two weeks, APRA stepped in as well. So policy changing is coming once again in a very big way here.

I like how cool we are that we, like, just behind before the time. It's like we know something.

We made it.

It's like we scheduled this just for the change.

All right, so in the chat, let us know if you're even aware of what APRA is doing at the moment or the changes they've made. Anyone heard a little bit about this policy?

Or if you don't know what apprais, maybe you can make up what it should mean.

A few people are on it already. I like it.

Okay, cool. Nope. Someone says no. I like that. It's good. Good to stay out of the media sometimes. The polls. You're on.

I do actually think there's merit in the idea of ignoring a lot of the news. So many things like, do you remember the mortgage, Cliff Aaron?

Oh, yeah. From the fixed rates, right? From the high rates. The fixed rates.

Going to the high rates was a massive, massive deal. The media was making it out like it was going to crash the property market. You were clearly better off just ignoring the lot.

Clearly, that's it. No, if it's going to happen to you, obviously.

All right, well, we're just letting a few stragglers in here, guys, but we'll dig into the content momentarily.

Go letting a few more in.

So that's just one of them. But, like, I think there's just been so many times when the media has made a big deal of it and then it basically turned into a nothing burger. It really, really has. Like, do you remember the other one with the Royal Banking Commission?

And what was that exactly?

Did that.

Did that happen?

Personal opinion, I thought. I thought the banks did extremely poorly. They use brokers as shields, I think.

Well, they definitely do. I remember that claim. They wanted to throw you guys under the bus pretty hard. Yeah, yeah.

Don't blame yourself. You got to throw someone else, right?

Absolutely. All right, Aaron, let's get into tonight's content. We've let the stragglers in. Let's do it.

There we go. So tonight we are going through a bit of lending strategy for 2026. So we want to see what's happened in 25 so that we can actually maximize what's going to go into 26. So the poly shifts that every investor must understand to keep their growing. Keep growing their portfolio. So we'll have a look at what's happened in 25 and emphasis on how we can utilize that for 2026. So before. Before we start.

Information provided is under general advice. Any advice contained in this material has been prepared without taking into account your financial objectives, financial situation and needs. Before acting on this advice, you should consider the appropriateness of the advice having regarded to these matters.

So now we've said that that's all formal stuff, right?

Well, I think we just put it in simple terms, guys. We're going to say some pretty spicy things on this webinar tonight or this training or masterclass, but I want to assure you that it's very dangerous to act on some of these things without the right advice. So please, for the sake that we can keep these going, we want to make sure that anyone who's thinking about doing something speak to an appropriate person to get their situation to unfold with it.

Absolutely. So who. Who are we, Charlie? What? We've got all these people rocked up having a chat, so who?

Well, Aaron, I think something I've really noticed is that these days there tends to be a lot of people in the property space making content. And while I think their content sounds great when you dig a little under the hood, they haven't necessarily done the thing right. So whenever I'm on a webinar these days or what, Even watching a YouTube channel, I really want to know what someone's done so that if I'm going to listen to them or potentially even take a some of the ideas, there's some credibility behind it. So the who are we Question, I'll start this one off and then we'll kick over to you. That's mostly because I think your resume is more impressive and I would hate to follow it. So I'll go first. Me, I'm a property investor. I've got over 10 million property now which is quite the achievement that I'm very proud of with the help of the SMB team. I'm a property enthusiast and just love it and I think that property is just a really fun space to be in. So why I'm here and into this is I just love property but I think I'm someone who's also walked the walk a little bit here. So Aaron, why should anyone listen to you?

Oh, so I'm Aaron, I am an investor myself but what makes me a little bit different is that I'm the person that helps people like Charlie and like all our investors get the runs on the board. So I've got the broad section of seeing the loans come through with lending strategy to be able to help people. So I look after the people that have the runs on the board. I spend times time with investors all very different because the market is very different and everyone's circumstances are different. I've seen the massive positives. I've seen people that have built really well and I've also helped people that have been referred to me when they may not have got so well or gone so well. Before being introduced to us tonight, I want to, we want to talk about the changes that have happened and how we can take advantage of this. We're not going to talk about the fluff. There's not theory. It's just real strategy and we want to take it from a lending perspective. Just as you said, there's a lot of property podcasts, webinars and everything out there. But I, I think we've got a little edge where we're, we're really 100 focused on the lending because it's the glue that holds the whole portfolio together.

Absolutely. If you can't get the money, you can't do any of the strategies like lending is the core and I love that saying, you know, property is really a game of finance with some Houses thrown in. But Aaron, I tell you what, sometimes I'm quite envious of your position because you get to see in everyone's portfolios and how they're playing it and then also construct the lending around that where I only really get to look at my own stuff. So very interesting position you get to sit in there. Plus, I'd also say you're quite the investor yourself. I wouldn't necessarily downplay it. I've seen some things of yours and I know you're quite the savvy investor. All right. But to the point, we are not financial planners, lawyers or buyer's agents or accountants. No, definitely not that one either.

Yeah, yeah. So what has changed? If we're talking about lending policy, what has changed? What's the good, what's the bad, what's the ugly?

So we'll put. We'll categorize these into a couple of. Into negative and positive and hopefully simplify it down to how it's changed and what we can do to overcome it as investors go into 2026.

Cool. What we're going to talk about, we just mentioned it before. We're not buyer's agents, we're not accountants, we're not financial planners. We don't know where the next hotspot is. But we are really going to dig into the lending because the lending is the most powerful game here. It is the centerpiece of what you do in property. Your mortgage broker is usually, from my experience, the one that doesn't change. You may.

Well, you just clicked on the meet there. Aaron, you might want to unmute.

I'm, I'm here now.

Yeah, you hear now.

Definitely the hand gestures thing on the, on the zoom. So we, we want to take it really from the lending point of view so that you get that level of understanding. All right, so we jump in the first negative.

Let's do it. I just want to make sure people understand this. We're going to point out some policies, but we're all going to so going to point out some very advantageous ways where the might actually work for. So do strap yourself in for this one. Let's get it, Aaron.

Cool. All right, so we have the first negative. We're going to call it the APRA or the Australian Prudential Regulation Authority. That's a bit of a tongue twister. So we just call it apra. So what have they done? These guys are the people that regulate the banks or what they call the authorized deposit institutions. They just re anything with the word bank in it. So if you've got A Anz bank, you got Commonwealth Bank, Greater Southern Bank. Yeah Anyone with a bank in it, the APRA regulate them. So that's what APRA does. There are non banks, they don't fall under apra, they fall under another regulator. So they're not a deposit taking institution, they don't have the word bank in them. So they are non bank or non bank lenders we call them.

I will say the role of APRA which I believe was brought in largely because of 2008. Right, the big global financial crisis. Their role is to really make sure that that doesn't happen in Australia and that's really a good thing. I don't think we should be seeing them as like the bad guys or the enemy or people trying to hold us back. They're actually the ones protecting this market that we all invest in and without them if something like a 2008 was going to happen you would be, I think all of us would be in a worse position at times. So while it can feel they're kind of working against us at times, I think they're actually here for the greater good. But before I let you go into this slide, Aaron, I'm just curious in the chat here how many of you are on here tonight just to hear about this one, this latest drop from APRA that's been all over the news. Anyone here just to get the update on this one? I would be.

The interesting thing is it's like the value, what's the value in property that it's hard to get into, that's hard to get out of and that's why it's got value, that's why it's appreciating. Right. So regulation is not too bad.

All right, so Aaron, if you can break this one down for me. They're the regulators, right. So the announcement was the Max DTI 6. Can you just explain that? We'll start really simply here and we'll unpack the effect.

So what they've done, what, what APRA has done is they forecasted a change in policy. So on the 27th of November they said they're going to implement something that's going to start on the of February. So it's forewarning. Like this is, this is advanced notice like to the banks, very advanced. And, and what does DTI stand for? It's debt to income ratio. So a lot of banks actually have debt to income ratios on the calculators for the major banks and they already have limitations in there or if you're over it you've got to explain why. And some people can never ever get to a DTI of 6. So that's, that's what the restrictions come into. And it's a little bit more than that because the banks have to report their DTI numbers quarterly and they're only allowed to have 20% of their new lending go over 6 DTI. So no more than 20% of their new lending can go over 6. And that's a bucket for owner occupied and a bucket bucket for investors.

So let me ask you something Aaron. I know personally like you would probably ride over $200 million of loans a year.

Absolutely.

I think it's actually more than that. So like you expose yourself to a lot of lending. How many of the loans you do again like just think of how much that is are over a DTI. 6.

There's, it's funny enough with the banks, it's, it's a lot of it because investors typically can go over six because they get the rental income, the interest add back and that qualifies them for a higher loan. So that can be the culmination of it's really investors I don't see too many owner occupied go over six. I don't even see them get close to six.

Okay. So of the investors you deal with are most breaking DTI 6.

Well DTI is a funky thing because no one knows, no one knows how that's calculated. So the regulator has said don't go over six. But it doesn't have a guidelines about how you calculate dti. So every bank calculates it differently. So for an example to that would be hex hex bills or study loans. Like there's a lender that doesn't even consider that a debt anymore. So that, and there's lenders that would consider that a debt. So your DTI would be higher if it's a debt and lower if it's not.

Is the debt that you hold in yourself from any super fund, should that be added to your DTI or not? It's not. So it's not even included. So technically a person could be over 6. Some lenders actually get the ability. If your trust or company is trading profitably, you can exclude it. Should you or shouldn't you? Some banks don't allow you to exclude trust. So your DTI will very quickly get to six.

Then you've got the out the outside of mortgage debt. That's the wild wild west, right. So credit cards being one of them. We've got a lender that will only use 38% of your limit of your credit card. But I could flick over to the new big five bank called Macquarie and they use 45.6% of your limit. So if you're using more of the limit, your DTI goes up and if you're using less of the limit, the DTI goes down. So from the, from the loans that I've seen over the last 12 months, a lot of the investors will slip over the 6 DTI. People with a lot of debt outside the mortgage, very rarely would I see an owner occupied crack the six dti. Which is where the pylon of the media has come in as well because they're saying, oh, it's going to a person on a, on a 100 grand of income can only get a $600,000 mortgage and the average property price is 900, you'd need 900 grand. But I can tell you right now, if we went to a major bank, we wouldn't even pass 5.5% to be able to qualify for the loan. So they can't get to six for an owner occupied, but we can for.

An investor because of the rental income and other factors that come with it.

That's right.

So it really appears this is a policy that's targeting investors, which I understand from there you've written down the bottom here that what about the non bank lenders? So can you just give an example of a non bank lender?

So I went through some calculators you can pile on the media or we like with this APRA stuff. But I went to a non bank lender and I saw they don't even have the word DTI in the calculator. It's like they don't know what it's all about.

So they've got this thing that I found called a net servicing ratio. So it does take in account things like buffering loans and credit cards and all that stuff. But they don't even look at the dti, it just has to pass on their calculator. So what about non bank lenders? Which means they're not even regulated by apra. They, they might look to what the, the major banks do because of their funding level. They might get their money from a major bank, so their costs might go up, which is maybe what we see. But they, they are like this 100% open for business can go over 6 DTI in the, whatever metrics we want to take in account because we don't even know what it is because each bank's different. But the non Banks are like really favorable to investors, especially right now, especially when we get into some of those things like trust and companies.

So this one, can I just pose a question there? So this policy really only applies to like the Big four is where it comes in or the APRA regulated banks which we're going to say are Big four. Really.

It's interesting because they even say in the Big five.

Okay, well the Big five, we'll let that, we'll let Macquarie in as the Big five. I don't know when they, when that happened, but. Okay, yeah. What do you, what do you feel about this though? Because even in your commentary, it seems to me that all that's really going to change here is that investors are going to start using more second and third tier lenders. That's all that's really going to come.

Of this on a mathematical scale. Like I looked at, I looked at CBA NAB's calculator for DTI and I was looking at how I could get what would be the maximum loan for an investor for an owner occupier. Right. So it was really only about 5.5 DTI when I looked at it for an investor we will get into 6.55 times DTI. So instead of getting a higher loan and we have to come back to six, that means that the major banks are going to be able to lend you about $130,000 less.

On a fairly basic calculator versus some of the non banks. So it poses the question like when we're looking at lending strategy and structures, we probably want to use the most restrictive lenders first. So that's now turning into the major banks, which it usually was in the first place. So we were using the banks like if we had two banks, one was giving you $2 million and one was giving you 700,000 and you only needed to use 600,000. The strategy is go get the restricted lender off the table and then leave the lender that's going to give us 2 million to later on in the portfolio completely.

And you can also throw the notion in that you might have a property now that's got a high dti. But five years from now rents will have risen. You may not have increased your debt. So that is an option where refinancing to a big four or five later on might be beneficial as well. So from my perspective this, while this is newsworthy and there are some changes, I can't really see an invest it stopping investors.

No.

Okay. So I think that's the point we Drive home here is that while APPA is stepping in and doing some things, it's not actually going to stop any investor from progressing. It just may mean that you need to work with a savvy broker like the SMB team and yourself, of course, to make sure you've got a broker that knows how to navigate these other lenders so that you can keep borrowing in a way that is advantageous.

That's right. And also it's a quarterly cycle. They're allowed to go over DTI up to 20% of the time. So there might be a little bit of subsection that you might be able to slip in a major bank over 6 DTI within the quarter. They might ration it off or they might put it up front of the quarter or the back of the quarter, wherever it is. But there is a, there is about 20% of the loans that can go over. That's the ruling that's out there. The other thing that's really interesting about APRA is that I've been a broker since 2012 and there's been 10 APRA changes in my career space, which means they were changing the rules every 1.3 years. So this is not a new thing, it's just more meteorised, I think, at the moment, especially around the investor traps.

There's a lot of it going on. And maybe we jump into our next point here about just another one the media is copying a hold of here.

Yeah, absolutely. So here we go. Trusts and companies shake up. So Macquarie's out, we've got them meteorized. After that Comm bank is restricted, then they'll pilot on the APRA stuff that we just went through. Right, so what, what does this really mean? Is it. Does it mean everything's out? Are we going to have more changes or anything like that? What I found is that Macquarie had probably a very advantageous policy around trusts and companies. They had also low, low interest rates to be able to make the hurdle for everyone to be able to do this easier. So one of their policies, and which is why I think some of their book was starting to get a little bit defaulty, was that they had a policy that they would lend to trust 1, 2 and 3 and then when you went for trust 4, they would then self exclude their own debt for trust 1, 2 and 3. So they had this big wild, wild west policy out there, the only one in the market that was doing it. So would that be them capping out on their dti? If they looked at those investors, probably. Could they see that this One's coming down the track probably, but. But they're the only lenders that actually excluded their own debt. I've never seen it before. It was a great policy. It's now gone.

Okay, so let's just break that one down. I know you're pretty deep in this stuff, but for us, what I'll call Muggles or normies that don't live in broker land. And so news from about four weeks ago, Macquarie was getting out of trust lending. You've just eloquently put there that what the irony in this is. This is a bank that had probably one of the loosest policies that's been in the last 20 years.

Yeah, it's just been nice with advantageous. Right, yeah.

So for those of you in the chat that are investors, basically the way Macquarie was letting us use trusts, and I must admit I did take advantage of this, was they would let you buy a property in a trust and then you could get more lending with them. And provided you had a letter from your accountant to say the trust was all good, they would just exclude that debt from your borrowing capacity. And in turn you could just do this again and again and again and again. Now, as I say that out loud, I'm sure many of us can see the danger in allowing a policy like that to run loose. Right, yeah. Cowboys is the term that is there. So for them to really stop this, I really feel like was just them protecting the bank, to be honest. But I bet you they got a lot of market share from doing it, is the other side of it.

Yeah, yeah. One adjustment on that. They didn't need the accountant's letter either. That was the other thing. Very loose.

Wow. Very loose. Smart. We're getting to the bottom of this here. I can't see how this would go poorly.

Yeah, yeah. So we'll just blame the social media guys. Right?

Maybe. Maybe ease up on the social media guys.

Yeah.

What I'd say to this one though is that it isn't actually stopping trust lending though. It seems to me that other banks are still doing trust lending and there's.

A lot of it left on the table. Right. You get a bank like that that had a significant volume, put that on the table, and then all the other banks are now going to struggle to get it going. Right. So that led us into that cba. Right. So if we've got lots of Lenny on the table and CBA is looking at what's going on and I'm going to get that volume, is that good or bad?

I think at times we forget the banks want to lend us money. That's how they make money.

I think that's what are they there for? They're there to make money.

Right?

They want the regulator to stay away, they want to lend the money. Sometimes they'll miss things and be bad and now we've got the shakeup, everyone's watching them. So they want to, want to hold back and then they'll want to lend again.

Okay, so in your opinion, do you think this is actually going to affect investors? So is this policy going to be one to actually stop anyone from getting to that next level in their portfolio?

No, no they're not. These, these changes are not going to stop an investor whatsoever. An investor might need to be a little bit more savvier with what the next product they get into with because Macquarie was a little bit on the cheaper side. We are seeing a lot of changes around the other major banks with blowout of service level times. Comm bank has already come out that they won't lend to companies and trusts if you don't bank with them in a credit relationship for six months which is the same as other banks out there. So amp banks had that sort of restriction for years and years and years. So Comma bank's not even being new to this game. So there's a lot of lending around trust and companies on the table at the moment. Nab Anz and CBA have blown out their service level times quite dramatically. I think some of them are up to nearly 15 days before they assess a file on a trust or a company. Some of the non banks we're seeing a lot of lending go to some of the non banks like Resymac first Mac, Pepper, all those people as well depending on the cost but they're I think resymac out of those probably copying the brunt of a lot of the business And I don't think they don't like it. I think they love it.

I would too if you're one not one of the big four. My take on this and I wonder if you agree Aaron is like clearly the lending environment is changing and what we're seeing now is a shift where for example Resimac or Pepper is this is their chance to make hay while the sun's shining like the big five are being restricted. There's all this policy in the news. They don't want to get caught off guard in pr. Like if you're Pepper right now or Resymac, you're sitting there licking your lips going it's Game time. I think the important thing for investors to look at though is going, you can see these regulators and big banks are stepping in. But please don't let this put you off to think it can't be done. It just means that you need to make sure, as I said before, you're working with a broking team that understands the second and third tier lenders and all the things you've mentioned here and the SMB team know about making sure you know where to use certain policies to your advantage or in this case, what banks to stay away from to serve if you want to do a higher than 6 DTI as an example.

And we're seeing, we're seeing more and more people come to us with say a Macquarie Trust loan that's got trapped equity and guess what we're doing, we're getting equity out, we're just not using Macquarie. So it's that the, it's open, open for business on, on this side of things.

Awesome. Well, let's jump into our next policy. While you bring that slide in though, I'm going to drop a link in the chat and I'm just going to let everyone know that if anyone is thinking about buying more property in 2026, you can see there's a lot of changes going on right now. So making sure you get your borrowing power done with a team like SMB who are just focused on investors makes a huge difference. So I'd be highly encouraging. I mean, I'm an advocate. I use the team myself of going well, I'm going to get my borrowing power done here to make sure that I'm set up for a big 2026 and I hope many of you will be as well. All right, what's our next policy here, Aaron?

Talking about the household explanatory measure now, interesting thing that happened. I want to get a little bit more focused on what happened in 25 to be able to leverage it into 26 and how it works. What I looked at with this one is I've got a client that clients came to me today. I Back in December 2024, I had a client that came to me and I was able to open up his calculator and see what his household expenditure measure was back in December 2024. And then I've also looked at it. If we went to the same bank today, what would it be? And what I found was that the living expenses from Dec. 24 to Dec. 25 is $108 more for the same.

Per week.

Per month.

Per month. Okay.

All right, so not too bad. It's about a 3% change over the.

Because I thought that was pretty good. Mine's gone up more than that. Yeah.

So if we. If we take what happened in 2025 as well, we had this thing called an interest rate drop. We had three drops. We had up to 0.75 is what the RBA did. So we had a little bit of a cushion for this change in household expenditure measure. So without that cushion, we would have had borrowing capacities get tighter. Or in this case, it's like one, if not one and a half rate reductions didn't happen because the extra buffer in the calculator went up. So if we look at what's going into the future, into 2024, if rates go up again, they only go up because the cost of living goes up. That means household expenditure minimum measures go up. So this little thing around HEM, they call it, is a minimum mandatory expense that goes in the calculator. So you can't get away from it. You can't go on rice and beans, you can't cut off the power and all this other stuff. They have a minimum amount of money that has to go into the calculator and it's ever increasing.

All right, so let me repeat this one back to make sure that I understand it. So what you're saying is that even if a family. So let's say there's a family of four, two adults, two children, even if they are literally living on rice and beans, they don't have any electricity. They're doing it real tough. In this example here, they go to public school and they have no fun and they're living really, really cheaply. Even if you've got the proof of that, you still have to put in the HEM here, which is the household expenditure measure of income. So this is how much the living costs are, regardless of what their actual living costs are, and their borrowing assessment is going to be done on that. So that number has gone up, is what you're telling me.

It's gone up by about 3%.

Okay. Yep.

And we've had the decrease in rates, but we didn't get the full effect of the increased borrowing capacity of the rates change.

It's kind of netted out.

It's nearly netted out. Yeah. So, yeah, so we have a minimum one. So what do we do about this one going forward? Well, this is where the.

Household expenditure measure will change between banks. So every bank will do it differently. And why do they do it differently? Well, some banks want to look at your bank statements. So they'll give you a lower household expenditure measure. Some banks don't want your bank statement, so they might risk mitigate that by giving you a higher calculation. So they all calculate how the household expenditure measure is different. So the regulator just wants to have a HEM in the calculator. They just don't give guidelines on how to do it. And that's where the banking competition comes in. So whether it's children, whether it's income, you could get a pay rise of $1000. And now your, your household expenditure manager is blown out of the sky. You could get a thousand dollars increase. And now it's.

It'S, it's increased your borrowing capacity. So it's all these different things that come into the calculator. So we could go from one bank might be $1449 on a basic income, and another bank might be $2100. So it might jump by nearly $1000. A child might increase. The child adds about $410 to the household expenditure measure. The second child, we get a bonus at $450 extra. So it changes according to our lifestyle. So that is the real key thing, that it's all based on CPI and it's also based on your income. So if this is a minimum mandatory in the calculator, the only way it calculates what your minimum mandatory is is how much income you put in the calculator. So it's this seesaw effect every time you get a pay rise or a change. These things can go up.

There you go. That one certainly hasn't been in the news. So we need to be aware that the hem has actually gone up here. And that one probably does. That infects us all investors and owners. Yeah. All right, let's jump into the next one.

Aaron. Next one.

All right, so we go over to the positive.

I was getting a little bit depressing. I'm glad we're moving over to something maybe more positive.

Let's go. Exciting here. So these ones are. This one's pretty exciting. So for many, many years, up until about. So we had some loan to value ratios that were stuck at 90 or under for investors for many, many years. So around the, around the, around the 2018, 2019, we had some LVR changes and some other things that come out that we could now that we couldn't go over over 90%. And from about 2024, we now have had these lenders come out that we can get 95% inclusive of mortgage insurance. 95% plus mortgage insurance or for every investor, not just say medicos or lawyers or things like that. But this is a really powerful one. So if we can leverage the bank more, there's less deposit, there's more to our cash flow and there's potentially more to our deposit, our deposit for the next, next purchase. And the other wild stuff that's happening in the marketplace, we have a lender that's come out that will do 90% loan to value ratio and not even charge in mortgage insurance.

See that blows my mind because that's.

A once off cost that like hits your back pocket and if you refinance you can't get it back. Right. So if you don't have to pay mortgage insurance and, and let's say most banks are charging, the less interest they charge you is that when you owe 60% or less then they scale it up to 70, 80, 90. So they might put up your interest rate but it's like you paying the mortgage insurance per month and you can refinance any time. So the benefit is, is that we're getting access to the bank's money, keep more cash flow and refinance when the property's done its job, pushed up.

Do you know what's interesting here, Aaron? I think 20% deposits are going to become a thing of the past. I think 10% deposits really highlighting to be the norm here. And if you're an investor you should be incredibly excited by this because the idea is that let's say you're going to buy a place for a million bucks, you only need to get 100 grand together for your deposit instead of 200 grand. So you're halving the time and effort to get a deposit which is just wild without having to do any lender mortgage insurance. So I suspect there's even people on this call right now where it's like they've probably got enough in equity to do a 10% deposit and they can actually allow us to move much quicker. Now to your point though, and I just want to pick this one up And Lance, I'm with you. I love this new policy. This is my favorite new policy. I'm going to go on the record on that one as well. But one thing just to highlight there Aaron, let's say someone does a 20% deposit, normal loan we'll call it even though I think that's going to change. They're getting about a 6% rate at the moment. Roughly. If someone was to do a 90%, what do you think the rate would be? Is this something where you're going to pay like six and a half. You've seen a half a point on it.

I think we're seeing probably the sevens maybe a bit under. Right.

So they're stinging it a little bit harder than that. Yeah, yeah. But to your point though, you really have to think about you. It's unlikely you're going to have that loan for the life of the property.

That's right.

So if you put down a 10% deposit and the property did well over, you know, two to three years, you could refinance to a better position with the equity that's in it as well. That's right.

And put the pressure back on your person that helps you find the properties. Right. They need to give you a good one.

So would you view this as. This is very much a policy to be used to help people who are in that accumulation stage acquire property more quickly. That's really the outcome you see for it.

Yeah. Acquire the properties, let the properties go up in value. The only other catch I'll mention about the no mortgage insurance. They do mandatory principal and interest. So it is something for probably the short term.

If we want to go down the line of interest only to get that cash flow back up. So we're using the lender to get in, lessen the deposit, pay a little bit of, you could say mortgage insurance over time, but able to get out when the property's performed.

Yeah. Well I just view that though pretend it's a million dollar property that you are not having to come up with a hundred grand. Even if you're paying 1% interest over a year. That's only 10 grand.

Yeah. Right. So less than what the mortgage insurance would be.

Yeah, the mortgage insurance used to be quite expensive. I remember that. But like when you think about that, that is just such an investor friendly policy. Like if you're someone and let me know in the chat, are you someone that's in that accumulation phase where you're trying to get a couple of property hopefully in the next 12 months? I imagine it's many of us. This is one you definitely want to make sure you're working with on your broke with your broker.

You know the sales. The sales job I would hate right now.

Is the mortgage insurer's sales job.

Oh geez. I'd be nervous at the moment too.

Very nervous.

I think they're still underwriting something.

Guys. This is definitely one where it's like you can see why we appreciate Aaron and the SMB team because they're all over this stuff. So I I am here looking at it that if you haven't already, I'd be booking in for a call to get your borrowing power done.

You know, I love that you love this policy. I've got a similar policy to really make it exciting too.

All right, let's see if we can level up.

All right, let's level up. Self managed super funds, we now can get 90% loan to value ratios. Now these are residential policies. So anyone listening on the call for commercial, more than happy to talk commercial, jump on the link, book in and we can unpack those details. But this is a residential policy one. So self managed super funds with 90% loan to value ratio. That was one bank, one bank came out with 90% and a 30 year loan term, no mortgage insurance, no risk fee, slight increase in the rate. And then the following week another lender comes out and they said, cool, I like the 90%, I don't like the 30 year loan term. So they took the policy, they matched it with another policy and that policy had a baby. And now we have 90% loan to value ratios, no risk fees, no mortgage insurance and a 40 year loan term. A 40 year loan term as well.

I imagine many of us got into property because of rich dad, poor dad, I know I did. But I think actually I shouldn't say that. I'll say it was the gateway drug, right? It was the book many of us read that really opened our eyes to how the world really works. And when I read this policy, I can't help but think Robert Kiyosaki's having a little dance somewhere when he hears about this because this is so in line with the thinking behind. You want to borrow as much as you can for as long as you can to take advantage of things like inflation, right? And all the things and gearing that we're aware of when it comes to the advantages for investors. So I'm looking at this and going that is an incredible opportunity. I think we're going to see huge growth in the SMSF space in the next 12 months because of it.

And the biggest thing, the biggest why around this one, it's only happened recently. So it's a really cool policy for 2026. Right. If you don't have a self made super fund now typically the timing takes about four to eight weeks to set up and then you've got to find the property and do all the stuff. But the main point of why this is important is that you, when your property goes up in value and you've borrowed 80 or 50 or 70% which is common that we've seen because no one likes the interest rates in super is that you can't get the equity out. Like if it goes up in value you can't get the equity out. So how about we hold back the money that we have to accumulate at 12% every year which is not our full gross pay and some people that are self employed probably think super is a dirty word. Right? So we hold back money, get the higher loan, let the property market do the job and what's 90% today could be 50% tomorrow and you get the cheaper rates.

Yeah, absolutely. What a win. And I know we've done a whole masterclass that's it on smsf. So guys, if you're wanting to go deeper into SMSF and how the lending works into it, I'm sure maybe Karina even has the link potentially we'll run around and find it but we'll put that in the chat as well if anyone wants to check out the self managed super fund stuff. But Aaron, on your take again I really look at this and saying for many investors like we saw that for example, you know, let's say you are maxed out in your personal name or outside of your super, I can see many investors are going to start turning towards this and start doing more property in their super with the banks making.

It easier here 100% because a lot of people think they're capped but they're not really capped because unless they capped in their own name and super and companies and trusts, well we still got plenty of work to do.

This is the thing I find so fascinating and I really want to challenge everyone in the chat to think about this. Am I truly tapped out? Like I find sometimes I think I treat it like a fact when it's an opinion because I remember early on and please don't be angry at me for this Aaron, but I remember my first broker and like when he said I was maxed out I, I almost couldn't, I took it as gospel. I said it was a fact. But when I worked with you and I realized the intricacies that you know, not all brokers are created equal and that you know there really are different levers brokers can pull if they've put the work in and you and the SMB team have done such a incredible job of being all over policy change and all the lenders that I doubt people are as tapped out as they think they are. Like it actually blows my mind that like how far you can push things.

If you really Try and with borrowing capacity. I've spoken to a lot of investors even over the last week and they go, oh, my broker gave me this, $600,000 is what I've got. And I'm going. Borrowing capacity is like a loaded question to me. I'm always looking for. Your borrowing capacity has to be three numbers. If you haven't got three numbers of your borrowing capacity, you need to jump on the link book in with us today because if you don't know what your personal borrowing capacity is, you don't know what your borrowing capacity is sitting in your trust or companies and you don't know what your SMSF borrowing capacity or no one has told you. When you come to an investment level broker like us, we'll give you those three numbers. And when you have those three numbers it makes sense to understand, like, do I validate spending money with my accountant to set up an smsf? Do I validate spending money with my buyer's agent to get the next property? If you don't know your number about the borrowing capacity, don't even bother talking to those guys because they cost you money potentially for no outcome.

Yeah. Or just think about, you could be in the market right now shopping for properties at 500 grand because that's what you think you've also, that's all you've got and that's such a limited pool. And I would just argue that you're probably going to get something very low quality where you might actually have eight or nine hundred grand, thousand dollars available to you and you just don't know it.

Right.

And that opens up so many more properties and potentially better quality opportunities. So giving yourself the best borrowing enables you to have the most options to make the right decision for your situation. It's a huge one.

Absolutely. So the only two strategies I'll mention about super is you either buy and you refinance it and you buy again or you buy, you sell and you can buy multiples. So October is the masterclass to go into Karina's, put the link in the chat.

So thank you Karina for that as well.

We got, we got a, we got a half positive maybe.

All right, I'll decide. Let's see it.

All right, so we've got this low deposit scheme stuff that's been expanded. So I think it's, it's half positive there, Charlie. I think people that have got properties in those areas that these first home buyers are going after.

Well, that is me.

Well, what about the people that don't have any investment properties now and now they've got to compete with these guys.

All right, well let's, let's unpack that a little bit. So it's, this is a really fascinating one and I'd love to get some opinions in the chat about this. The government helping with help to buy and the low deposit scheme. Do you think it's a good thing or a bad thing? I'll lay out a few scenarios here. I'm going to steel man this a little bit. So as someone who's got property, I have a couple of properties in areas that you would consider first home buyers. I can tell you right now they have had, they've gone bananas in the last month.

They really have. So like if you already had property in these areas, you're loving life right now and you're going, I'm thrilled to have this. If you're a first home buyer trying to get into the market and you're ready to go now, I think this is a great thing. I probably feel for the generations coming a little bit after this because it's only these first few years that really get the advantage before it becomes normalized. Right. But.

I don't know if I love the government being involved in, to this level. I really don't know if I like that Aaron. So I'm quite, I'm quite conflicted.

It's an interesting conundrum with the government in. So with the first scheme being low deposit scheme, the government is really just taking the position of mum and dad as a first home buyer. But the second scheme is the wildest one where the government actually owns 40% of your property and now you're restricted to help the buyer scheme. When they're now co owners of your property.

Do you happen to know how many, how much of that they're doing?

Because I think there was up to 40% of.

Yeah, but how many total people are they doing per year in this?

That one's a little bit. That one I don't have the specific number of what.

I think it's a couple of thousand. I think it's like 2000 a year they're doing.

Well the thing with the help to buy scheme is each state and government, each state and territory has their own little scheme on help to buy and then I think there's a national scheme on top of it. And if the national schemes get up and running as quickly as the low home deposit scheme. Well, the low deposit scheme has no cap now, no income cap that has caps on property prices but no caps on positions, no caps on income, but it does cap on.

The price caps. But the price caps cover 60, 70% of the market that the first home buyers could achieve.

So it's really. I don't like the help to buy scheme. I don't mind the first home loan deposit scheme if it's what you want to do your first home. It's not a scheme for investors. This is not a scheme for investors. If this was going to help investors, it's people like you, Charlie, that have the properties in these markets already. And it's categorized as low deposit. So if you have more than the minimum requirement, so the low deposit scheme helps single parents and things get back in the market with a 2% deposit, helps the first home buyers with a minimum of 5% deposit. But if you have more money than 5%, guess what the bank's gonna ask you to do? Put it in.

It's gonna say use it.

Put it in. Yeah. And what the rules are is that the banks have control on how much minimum you have, maximum you have left after the purchase. So I spoke to one bank Yesterday, they said 15 grand is maximum you can have after the purchase. And then Another bank said 30 grand is maximum that you can have after purchase. And it's not necessarily the banks doing the doing the auditing or anything, but they are auditing against the bank's rules. So if you do put a deposit down and then miraculously you end up with 100 grand in your offset account of the property that you bought, you're in trouble. And the fines are pretty bad. Like they've uncapped it to get into the scheme. Now they're going after like fines, the pain. The LMI even referring you to the state government to pay the stamp duty too. Like it's pretty hefty what they're doing. After finding you out that you've misused.

This scheme, I do think that is a good thing. But I also think this thing's going to get abused. So my take on this, and this probably isn't so much about borrowing, this is more about the market though, Aaron. I just look at it and go, as an investor, the government's just putting more of a floor in to make sure that property prices don't go down. Again, more people into the market to keep this going on. Overwhelmingly this is positive for investors. But again, I'm not sure I love it.

So it's lending, right? So if you put some numbers around it, it's between 20,000 and 39,000 people that could get access this. And if we use a $700,000 property price. Now we're adding, we're adding lending to one class of asset that's government backed of between 14.4 billion and $27.3 billion of extra money going into one asset class called property.

That's got to have an impact. And we're already seeing it right a month, month or two later. Totally cool. So the next thing is, how do we take advantage of this? Well, let's break this one down into what I call the two step advantage, or it could even be three steps. So right now we might be limited by the DTI. We might have to go after the 90% LVRs. We could play around with making it even more beneficial by not paying the mortgage, insurance or any risk fees. But we're also going to have a disadvantage on that where we're going to pay slightly higher price to acquire the lending. So right now acquiring the lending is, is harder than when we want to refinance. So our lending is at 3% over and above the interest rate that we have to qualify. But when we've held the property for at least 12 to 24 months, the buffer to refinance is only 1%. And then some lenders are not even needing to check your serviceability to refinance to get a lower rate. So this is where the benefit comes in. So what are we going to do.

To use strategic a little bit more. So we're going to strategically acquire the property. We might pay a little bit more on the rate. We get the money, we get the property secured, we change up the lease, we change up the property, we get higher rentals and all the things that come along with it. Then we are going to refinance it. We might have more rental, rental income, we might have some more income, we may not. But we have a lower hurdle to jump over to get a lower rate. So slightly higher rate. Now we've gone refinance to a slightly lower rate. Now we're sitting in this strategic level up position where we're able to now take our lower rates, our current income and all the things that we've done from acquiring the property and taking control of it to be able to look at whether we can borrow again and then recycle around. So that could be put into perspective with self managed super funds. We borrow at 90, we revalue and we then get lower rates in trusts. One of the things that we see commonly with trusts is that we might take equity out of our own property or another property. We put it as Startup capital to the trust. The property in the trust rises in value. That means we can get that startup capital out and then we can potentially even leave any surplus equity there to help manage the trust for a rainy day.

And then if we've got other troublesome properties, we might be able to use a property that is unencumbered. Whether it's a fancy property like a rooming house, ndis a funky commercial, wherever it is, we might be able to use another property, use the debt on that, get it up and running and then look at what the opportunities are to refinance. So the big take home is the loan that you get on the property isn't usually the loan in 30 years time that you have on the property.

Aaron, I love what you put together here and what you just said there about the loan you have on the property now is likely not the one that you'll keep. Just ring so true for me, like I've refinanced my entire property portfolio like three times now and I look at it and go the loan you use to get a property is very different than the one you use to keep it. And even then that's going to keep changing and changing. Like even refinancing interest only loans can be really, really powerful. So let's just use an example here because I'd love to break this one down and I love that step one is really people can take action on right now is like step one is get your borrowing power done with your three numbers. Like know what you can borrow in your personal name, know what you can borrow in trusts or companies, but know what you can do in your smsf. Like arm yourself with what type of borrowing power you have and know which policies like the ones we've mentioned here. Maybe it's the 90% and 40 year in super, maybe it's the 10% deposit, right? So arm yourself with which policies you know are going to be advantage for you to be able to acquire. Speak with your broker though and have a plan for how you're going to deal with things. So if you're going to use one of these policies and it's going to have a higher rate, then you know you're going to go, all right, well three years from now we're going to refinance that onto this and then that's where we're going to work on the holding costs. Use that information with your buyer's agents and your accountants, right? Going guys, I can do this. What's the best thing I can do with it right I think it's a really excellent way. And then have that time where you check in with your broker again after these acquisitions to put something in the calendar for these refinance times and then you can go again, rinse and repeat the project or process, I should say.

Totally, totally, yeah.

Very clever. Very, very clever. So, guys, if you want to take action on step one and get your borrowing power done in a meaningful way, I'll put that link in the chat again. But make sure you book in with one of the SMB team. They'll be able to give you these numbers and really set you up for a very strong 2026.

I would love anyone, anyone that's had their borrowing capacity done recently and the person only gave them one number. When you book in, just say, I only got one number. As borrowing capacity, you need three numbers. If you don't have three numbers, you need those three numbers. There is no way you're going to be able to build a portfolio if you don't have your personal companies and trust and super fund borrowing capacity. They are all different.

Love it. I think it's a really awesome thing. We've got a. We've got a question in the chat here. Do you mind if we jump into Q A? And guys, if you do have any other questions on borrowing, please make sure you do put them in the chat. We're going to do some Q A time now.

I love this question is if I buy a house tomorrow, as my PPO are, which if you are, congratulations for tomorrow, how soon can I refinance it?

Yeah, I think, I think there is a. Too quick and there's a. There's not. Never too late. Right. Most, most lenders will need a. Three months is probably the minimum. You need at least a couple of repayments for us to be able to consider doing the refinance. If you have other borrowing with the bank, you could probably, probably refinance quicker because you can demonstrate that you can repay it. But typically three months, we've got one major bank that is a minimum of three months of repayments and then the majority of the banks are six months. Doesn't mean that you're out of it if it's less than six months. It's just we need to look at your whole circumstances and if you've got other lending with the bank that we want to refinance to, we may have opportunity as soon as the next day.

Amazing. So there you go. And I think you'd want to have a reason for that as well. I suspect with like maybe you've done a renovation or something like that would be a reason to do it. But it's like it's, it's very unlikely that someone needs a refinance that quickly. So I suspect there's more in that question, Belinda. So if you're up to something with a few more steps in it, make sure you book in with the team because they'll probably be able to help you with how to approach it. All right, and so I'll jump into some Q and A. And Lauren, thanks Charlie and Aaron and the SMB team. Well, Lauren, you're welcome and thank you for being on with us as well. Dimple has asked, is refinancing frequently a good thing?

It's, it's never a good or a bad thing. It all comes down to why you want to do it and what it's going to get you to. So if you're wanting to refinance on a frequent basis because you've had an increase in income, you've have the increase in rental incomes, decreases in debt, come into some money, you're able to then refinance a little bit more frequently to be able to get your rates down, get yourself into a positive, positive goal, positive position to be able to go after the next strategic acquisition and then go after the refinance and then level up from there. So I don't think there's, there is a too frequent, there's a too infrequent as well because you might be on old products and they're all costing a fortune because of the, what they call the lenders back book, which is more expensive. But if you refinance frequently for just the sake of refinancing, like we saw when people were getting all the refinance rebates, your credit file will be affected. So we just have to have a reason. It's not, it's not that it's too frequent, it's not that it's too infrequent. It's all about what are we trying to achieve.

Yeah, great one. If it does help, it seems to me the average is about five years. Right. It seems to me that's a very good frequency. And again, some of the strategies Aaron's mentioned may do that earlier, but that's what I found. Lance has got a question here with SMSF lenders offering 90% loans, what are the liquidity requirements or are there any. Aaron?

Yeah, so there's two lenders at 90%, one lender with 90% and a 30 year loan term. They have A minimum requirement of a minimum balance of $150,000 to be able to have a ticket to the game. They have the ability to use future forecasted future income like if you are willing and able to want to put more salary sacrifice in and they can use that to help bolster your borrowing capacity. But they need a minimum of 150 grand in to have a ticket to the game. They don't necessarily. That lender doesn't have a liquidity test. The other lender that is the 90% and the 40 year loan term they do have a liquidity test of, I think it's around 20%. So of the value of the loan you need to hold that money back in the super fund as a protection mechanism mandated by the lender. But what I would do is I'd mandate you to have a buffer after the purchase or some cash after the purchase in your super fund in the first place. So you don't go into a self managed super fund to dump your whole, your whole amount of money into it unless you have a plan or you're bringing forward contributions and a whole range of funky strategies you might talk to your accountant or planner about. But never ever dump and empty your SMSF account without having some money left over after the purchase. That is the rule of thumb and that's what I would be pushing and advising.

Yeah, absolutely. Getting some good advice on that one as well. To make sure you've got adequate liquidity is a really good question there. I got a question from Paul here. What's the rate for the 40 year in SMSF? Is it substantially higher? Does it auto drop once you prove 80% LBR with evaluation, I take it you probably have to refinance.

Aaron, now you've got my two step process SMIC in that question, right?

I was a layup, I was giving it to you, it was great.

So if you buy at 90%, let's take the 90% 40 year loan term seems the most favorable, right? Extend over any of the higher rates. So that interest rate sitting at 7.7% at the moment and when you get to the equivalent 80% loan is about 6.94. There is a lender in the market that has a lower 80% rate which is about 6.49 area and I think as you get to 60 you can get down towards the sixes, maybe sneak a bit under the sixes as you get down to the 60% LVR. You know what, you can buy a lot, buy a property with a lender, get the 90% rate. Say the loan has stayed the same and the property's gone up in value and your accountant taps you on the shoulder and goes, oh, time to do your SMSF tax return, mate. But we need you to revalue your property. So how about we reval the property and if the property's gone up in value, we can provide that to your same lender that you're with with your SMSF loan and they will readjust your rate for you without refinance.

There you go, there's the work through. Hope that's helpful, Paul. Great way to play it.

But there is cheaper refinances than those two lenders at 90% just to think about.

I think the great thing about that though, Aaron, is it gives you options like you just don't want to be trapped because I suspect there's going to be more SMSF changes in the coming years and potentially products people want to jump into. That'll be the game. I think the way it's going, refinances.

In super have low. The hurdles are lowered recently. So there's this thing called easy refinance into that rate. So if you at 7.7 and the current lender is only going to give you 7.6.9 and you really want that 6.49 area. That lender, if you have rental income, clear repayments on your SMSF mortgage, they don't even service it, they just pass it.

There you go. I didn't even know that was coming in. I was just going to accept the paperwork.

Yeah.

All right, next question here from PO. Which lenders have seen the biggest delays in SLR? Off the back of Macquarie's and CBA's trust announcement. Hope you know what SLR is. I do not.

A service level agreement. It's a funky term that lenders have and they publish on their website for sla.

There we go.

And it's good to take into account when people are purchasing and all this other stuff. So your biggest, your biggest one that got hit straight up from the service level agreement or the timeline to assess your file is CBA first because then they announced that they wouldn't do it for anyone that's not their credit customer. National Australia Banks and ANZ are the two others. They're both at about similar level. About a 15, 15, 20 day. The Westpac group is really strange at the moment. They're picking and choosing which loans they want and they. Yep, they're always a bit strange. Westpac guys. The next one's after the major banks. You've Got your resimac is probably the worst affected at the moment because it's got good rates. They're even bit cheaper than cba, bit cheaper than the majors at the moment related to trust lending. Then it, then it gets into some of the other ones like your peppers. Brighton's haven't seen Liberty's SLA blow out because they're the most expensive but they're the most lenient on the borrowing. So not many people are wanting us to jump there because they're probably eight and a half, nine percent still. So yeah, there's I think it's resume pepper after the majors.

There you go. This is a bit of a nuanced question here and we may not be able to answer it but I'm going to give you a crack at it anyway. So Samuel's asked can you please elaborate a bit on the concept of startup capital into a trust and later being able to pull it out. I understood you can't pull it back out of a trust. That might be an accounting question.

So I think we need to define if it's self managed super fund. They're, they're, they're, it's just your super fund. There's no career quote unquote startup capital. I, I use the word startup capital. Probably the trigger. The question right in that trust you might take. When you open up a trust that has nothing, there's no, you might open up a bank account, it's still got zero dollars in it. And when you want to go buy a property the deposit has to come from somewhere even if we use a funky 90 loan on it. So where does that money come from? It's going to come from you. And there's only two places you can get it out of your savings account or out of your equity. So whatever the 20%, 10 or 20% deposit you need that needs to go into the trust for you then to qualify for the 80%, 90% loan in a trust to complete the purchase of the property, that money has to come from somewhere. So we could use it use the word deposit from your equity in your own name or deposit out of your cash in your own name. I use the word startup because most people get confused that a trust is not your own name, it's actually its own entity. It's, it's actually when you, when you present a trust to a bank, that's the applicant. You're not the applicant, you're the person that just instructs the trust to do its job. So when you put your, your deposit money into a trust, that's your money still. So when the property goes up in value and you're able to go from say you've got a $500,000 property, you've got a $400,000 loan in the trust and 100 grand from your owner occupied, when the property goes up to say 750,000, it's now eligible for a $500,000 loan. So you can refinance the 400, release the 100 grand out of the equity. And because if your accountant's done it right and it's in the balance sheet, there are lenders that will accept that to pay you back. Then when they pay you back, this is like you've acquired the property and you put your money in the trust, you've come to the refinance. Now we can get your money back out, that money comes out of trust land, back into your own name and you can go do it again.

There you go. Some clever maneuvers come within that.

It's just, I just use the word startup capital because it's like you're starting a property business, right? This is all the business of property.

It's the best way to think about. Aaron, I love the way you've expressed that there's treating it like a business. All right, next question here from Dimple. I have just purchased a property in smsf. Congratulations, Dimple. Can we make a portfolio out of the SMS property? I'm not sure I understand the context, but absolutely you are on your way to turning it into a property portfolio. There are some things you'll need to do along the way, so best check in with a broker like the SMB team to work out if you want to grow it, if you have more serviceability to come into that. All right, and then our last question here. I'm just coming into the back of it here from Paul, is the rule of thumb 1% above for SMSF loans and I take it it's rate. So is SMSF roughly 1% higher?

Aaron, you could take a rule of thumb for that one. The answer would be just the litmus test is yes, one, sometimes a bit lower, sometimes a bit higher for 80%. I think you're on the money there.

All right, awesome. All right, good one to think about it, Aaron. We're going to wrap this one up from here, but thank you for taking the time to answer all the questions individually at the end here and hopefully people got a lot out of that. I'll mention everyone on here again that it's like this is essential to get your borrowing power done by a team like SMB, which can really get into this stuff. So I'm going to put the link in the chat one more time, encouraging people to get in and see how these policies could work for them, increase their borrowing power and set them up for an Incredibly strong 2026. Any final remarks? Aaron?

No. Get the borrowing capacity key and all three of them. I just can't stress enough. All three borrowing capacity numbers don't just settle with one. Have all three for your circumstances.

Absolutely. All right, everyone, have a fantastic night and thank you for joining us.

Cool guys.

I still didn't get the theme song done for the end. Aaron, we'll get some cool thinking music for the end another time. Thank you everyone for joining us. Enjoy your evenings.

Peace it out.