Mastering Self-Leadership Through The Conscious Habit Framework With Amy Woodall

Life happens, and not always the way we expect it to. Every single day we face change, stress, and uncertainty. What if you could learn to thrive no matter what life throws your way? Resilience expert Adam Markel and his inspiring guests explore breakthrough strategies to fully embrace change and build the resilience required to become change-proof.

Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Change Proof Podcast. I'm your host, Adam Markel, and I am so excited to be in the seat. I haven't had a podcast in a couple of minutes, um, just through the summer and some other— yeah, through the summer and all that good stuff. So we're back at it. And, um, oh my God, this guest that I have today, you're absolutely going to be blown away by her. She is spectacular and, um, just has a great mind, an amazing mind, and a beautiful spirit and way about her. Um, let me just read a little bit about it, and then I'm gonna jump right in with my first question for Amy Woodall. Amy is an expert in mindset and behavior who knows humans, how they think, where they get stuck, and how to move them forward. She's the founder of Conscious Habit and the host of the top-ranked Conscious Habit podcast. Amy and her team travel the globe helping solve problems from the inside out. After all, the root of results begins within. Amy, uh, thank you so much and welcome to the show. Okay, Amy, so, uh, you've got an impressive life history and really interesting bio. I mean, I read these things all the time, so do you, and you hear them all the time, and it's kind of like maybe even become immune to it at a certain point. It's like, oh, somebody's reading my introduction again. It's like I'm not even paying attention. So the question I've got to ask you has nothing to do with that. This is perfect. What's one thing that's not a part of your introduction or your bio that you would love for people to know about you at the start of our conversation?

I think it's interesting to reflect on. I did not go to college. I have, I at 19, I'll give you a little history of Amy, classic middle child, you know, rebellious. Nobody's gonna tell me what to do. Nobody, you know, I dare you to tell me what to do. And I was a little bit of a wild child in high school. I gave my parents every gray hair that they ever had. I dated the bad boy, you know, and I— there was a sense of responsibility that hit me kind of halfway through my senior year. And I just knew if I go to school, I'm going to piss this away. And there was also this other sense of me that's like, I'm ready to get my life started. Let's go. And so at 19, I became a manager of a retail store and I was managing a staff of 8 or 9 people. And I was a horrible manager and I didn't really— I was not good at it. I didn't even know how to lead myself at 19, but I had a decent salary and bought a house at 20 and then became a mom at 21 and didn't really have kids in my future. You know, I was going to move to New York. I was going to be a buyer. I was going to, you know, work in the fashion industry. I had my life all planned and yeah, became a mom at a young age and was just really determined from there, like, not to become what people believed of me. Like, oh, you know Amy, she's that troubled middle child. And so I think that stubbornness kicked in at the right time, and I just knew I'm going to prove them wrong and I'm going to do this mom thing the best that I can. And, um, really soon after became an entrepreneur. So first, first son at 21, second son at 23, um, started my first business at 24. And have been an entrepreneur in different ways ever since.

So the thing that people don't know about you is you're stubborn.

Oh yeah, well, I mean, they probably could be like, duh.

I'm just gonna say, people who know Amy would probably be like, oh no, that's nothing new here.

Yeah, yeah, surprise, surprise.

This is not revelatory, but for the audience anyway. Okay, yes, that's not a part of your bio. I'm stubborn, I'm tenacious. I'm, you know, I think there's a an element of, of what we might call stubborn or obstinate, or even, even somebody just sort of is driven by proving, like, proving other people are wrong or proving that we're right, that, that is a through line for successful entrepreneurs at least, and even successful leaders, frankly.

Yeah.

And I don't know, I think it's a good thing, but that's a thing.

It is a thing. And I think I'm grateful that I had ego at the right time. And now what I— in my old older years, am working to learn how to put ego in a different driver's seat. You know, it is, um, it served me.

Say more about that.

Yeah, it served me until it didn't. Um, I mean, we teach a lot about ego and conscious habit. It's a part of our framework that we teach, is helping people understand when their ego gets hooked and their ego gets pushed, you know. And there's lots of different versions of ego. And, um, ego is not just like, hey, you know, I'm right. You know, ego is not just the, the, like, my version, which is dig their heels in and, you know, go-getter. That's, that's one version of ego. Ego can also be the people pleaser. Ego can be the perfectionist. Ego can be the person who changes who they are in front of any person in front of them as a means to be accepted. Ego shows up in different ways for all of us, and it's there to protect us. And until it makes a mess, you know? And so for me, what I've learned in my own journey, which is what I now become passionate about helping other people, you know, operate beyond, is that if ego is in the driver's seat, I think it's Marianne Williamson who has shared this quote that under ego's guide, we search but we do not find. And I think that if ego is driving, that we often believe that our happiness or satisfaction or fulfillment will exist on the other side of something. And I did that for a long time on the other side of, you know what, when I make 6 figures, I'm going to prove I wasn't a statistic. I'm going to prove that I didn't need that college education to be successful. And guess what? I hit it. And I think I felt elated for 5.2 seconds before I kicked that damn can down the road and was chasing it again. And I kept doing that over and over again. And I was meeting other people who was doing the same thing, you know, and I started to see like, oh, this is ego. Under ego, we seek but we do not find.

I want to know what— how ego has made a mess. Like, when you said that earlier, I found myself sort of stuck in that spot where I'm going, okay, so what's an example of— and everybody has an example. So anybody listening to this, it's like, well, think, think, you know, as you're listening to Amy, and maybe you're curious to hear what she's about to say, and I'm of course giving her time to think about how she wants to approach that. Um, think, think the same thing for yourself. Like, if ego has ever made a mess in your life, what does that look like? So, but Amy, to you while everybody else is going through that process.

Yeah, I do. I wanna just iterate, I don't think it's all bad, right? Because there's plenty of great things that ego has gotten me. But when I have made, here's the way that I look at ego. It's a bit more from a spiritual perspective than it is, you know, a therapeutic perspective. It's a bit more aligned with, you know, Michael Singer and Eckhart Tolle than it is, you know, Jungian principles necessarily. But I know that when I have not had a good relationship with my highest best self, um, the part of me that knows it doesn't have to prove, um, that part of me that when I was born on this planet— I don't know about you, Adam, but when I came out of the womb, I'm pretty sure I wasn't looking at, you know, the, the cradle next to me saying, dang, I don't know, I kind of, I wish I had, you know, dark hair like them, and I wanted brown eyes, and, you know, I, I weigh How much? Man, I got a big butt. I had no qualms about myself, you know? And I'm pretty sure that when I kick the bucket someday, whenever it's my time, the people who love me the most will remember what's true about me, not how much money I made, how much, you know, how often I was in the gym. They're not gonna remember any of that shit. They're gonna remember what was true about me, which is this connection to a higher, more consistent place within myself. That version of me knows I have nothing to prove, but that I can for fun because, hey, that's why I'm here to create. I'm here to build a business or help people. And so the way I equate it for, you know, myself and also coach other people too is like, what are we making the icing and what are we making the cake? Because my ego's version is high achievement. It feels like I have to achieve in order to be good and worthy. But if I know my own worthiness, if I build a good relationship with myself, 'cause I'm stuck with me every second of every day for my entire life, I cannot escape my own being, terrifying. But if I can build a good relationship with this constant home within myself, then all of that achievement gets to be the icing. And if it's the cake, I'm still really damn hungry, and I'm likely making some outside source responsible for that. So the mess that's been made has been mistaking that I would earn some sort of worthiness or fulfillment in some future event or box checked outside of myself.

Yeah. And, and that's, I guess, a mess that happens. Or I'll just say, for me, that's— that, that was a daily mess. I mean, for the most part, because it's such a driver for, for driving, for driving toward achievement or move— pushing yourself beyond, beyond what is, uh, sometimes reasonable limits, um, thinking that it's okay or it'll be okay because in the end, the, the end itself justifies the means. And, and that whole sort of end justifies the means philosophy, which I do think it is— it's, it's not a law, or, uh, or a, uh, as you say, it's not something we're born with. I don't think it's a natural and something that's naturally, uh, a part of us, but it's, it's a way that we we survive in the world and how we, how we develop that story around what it takes to survive or what it takes to cope or any of those things, I think really does go back to places much earlier in our lives and, and all that program. You mentioned a book, I mean, you mentioned a couple, but the one that she said it, I'm thinking, yeah, I'm due for a reread. I don't know how many of you guys have, have books out there that you just sort of read every, every you know, once in a while, um, and over and over again in the course of a lifetime. Those are good books. I'd say those are really, um, useful. Michael Singer's The Untethered Soul— I know he's got other books, and I forget right now the, uh, the name of another book of his that, uh, was pretty cool too. But The Untethered Soul literally rocked my world. There's a few books like that. You met— you mentioned Marianne Williamson, of course, you know, uh, Return— A Return to Love. I think it's A Return to Love that's hers. Um, You know, like just amazing stuff. But that, that Michael Singer book is, uh, is phenomenal. Do you know that book well?

I do.

Putting on the spot here.

Yeah.

Is there a part of that book or, or a section— I know there's this like 4 chapters in a row, and I'm trying to think, it's probably 12, 13, 14, 15, or something like that, where he's describing the thorn in the paw, you know, and how we kind of build our lives around these injuries that we've got, these little thorns or not so little thorns in our paws. And then we, we can, we, we create a construct to make sure we never touch the thorn, that nobody ever touches that thorn. And, but yeah, what were you thinking of when you mentioned him earlier? Was there something in particular?

Oh yeah, I mean, I listened to that book for the first time in 2017, and there was a moment I remember driving down the interstate where there was an instant perception shift. And I recognized in that moment, based on Adam Markel, you know, his insights of, have you ever noticed when you're not talking, there's a little voice within that is talking? And this, you know, concept of this inner narrator. And I remember this perception shift where prior to that, I had believed that I am just a witness of life. I am just watching life unfold around me. And then that's informing me what's happening next. And that instant shift, it was like I recognized that life was happening from the inside out, that my eyes saw what my brain believed to be true. And so my experience in the world was a matter of my inner hardwiring, my inner belief system, how often I listened to that voice, even believing I was that voice. You know, that's the thing that that book taught me so deeply and really inspired a lot of the work I get to do today for myself too, by the way. I am, Adam, I am my greatest student. I mean, I think that half of my clients, I joke and I'm like, you know, this is my therapy, right? But what, what that really taught me was like, I am not my thoughts. And yet I have allowed my identity to be connected to this mind that thinks erratically and just how much unnecessary suffering comes because we believe these stories that are created in the mind. And it really put me on a path of learning how to create separation between my thinking and the thinker, you know, creating a habit of greater consciousness.

Yeah, I mean, it sets up a really— and I don't know if I've ever thought of it this exactly this way, so that's what's great about conversation, that's what's great about when you get to connect with somebody, especially somebody you never have connected with before, because you and I are doing this for the first time right now, um, that there's this sort of tension between who we are and, and what we think. And it's odd, right? But there's, there's a part that is weird to be thinking Yeah, I am not my thoughts. Huh? What? And then, oh, I don't have to trust my thoughts. Go, what? Because, you know, we are— a lot of our audience and a lot of the people that I speak with and work well— our company is involved with— are business people. So I'm mostly focused on leadership in that regard.

Yeah.

But again, what we're talking about is I'm not leading— our company isn't leading an algorithm. We're not leading AI. We're leading people. We're helping people to lead other people. And that's still the way it is. And I hope— and I don't even hope, I know for sure that's not changing anytime soon, and certainly not in our lifetimes. That's not a bold prediction, I don't think. So for you to say to a leader, you know, what's like— what's the most important thing for a leader to be able to do? And I'll just— to me, I would say to trust yourself. You cannot lead anybody if you're in your own brain going, I don't know, should we go this way? Should we go left? Should we go right? You know, which way? And, you know, any road will take you there. Um, no. So you have to trust yourself. But at the same moment, to say, yeah, you got to be able to trust yourself, and to also say, but I don't trust my thoughts all the time because my thoughts aren't trustworthy. They can lead me astray. They can go— they're not even who I am a lot of the time. In fact, Oh, most of the time they're probably not who I am in actuality. Is that what you were kind of getting at?

It is. And I think that, well, this work started, so I listened to The Untethered Soul in 2017. At the time I was a performance improvement coach in organization. So I would be hired in by leaders to come in and help them uplevel their sales teams, their service teams. My specialty was in client success and, uh, a lot of what we would deal with was not just teaching them these tools on how to become better in their roles, how to grow their sales, how to retain their clients, but it was also dealing with, I mean, I, I'm sure you've seen this, Adam, that sales and service hate each other with all their heart and soul in every country and every industry. There's always finger pointing.

They have different purposes. They have a different mission.

I mean, they do. They do. Yeah. And there's a, I remember I was standing in a conference room at a hotel in the middle of Amsterdam teaching, you know, coaching a room of applications engineers from a big transmission company here in the US. And when I asked this German man if sales ever overpromised on their behalf, I realized that the F word translated flawlessly in all languages, and it was well loved by everyone. And also that, you know, sales and service kind of like have this, have this frustration, this kind of love-hate relationship. And so along this path, I was on my own journey of learning how do I navigate this thing called me that I'm stuck with every second of every day, no matter if life feels good or bad. I'm the one constant. So I began teaching this in organizations, and what we saw was the root of result or the root of problem begins in the mind of the person. So of course, challenges are gonna show up in organizations, but the story with that we then layer on top of it is based on this 95% of our unconscious hardwiring. And for us to be able to take a step back and do some self-leadership first, you know, because there are a lot of problems that begin to be amplified that purely started in the mind and do not exist. Exist in reality. So for leaders, it is— if you're getting mad, frustrated, you have this need to control, you, you know, you're ready to send this scathing email, have the meeting, etc., we— there is some internal connection of what am I believing to be true right now? Is this fully true? Really being able to collect the evidence and help us detach some of that ego story. Ego gets hooked when it's threatened. That might amplify problems and challenges in your organization.

Yeah, it— I— so, I mean, that, that just tracks so well, um, in my experience, just what you're talking about. In fact, uh, it's probably the hardest thing for, for somebody who's accomplished to slow their— to slow intentionally and effectively slow their thinking, slow, slow their, their reaction to their own thinking. And, and that is like, okay, well, we got to get shit done. There's, there's, there's things that have to happen. And, um, so in the book that I— the last book I wrote is called Change Proof, and it's about change and about navigating change. And it came out right as the pandemic was winding down. But there's a part of it that's called— that's really a method for, for dealing with what you just described. And that's this, what we call the PAC, or the the pause, ask, choose. And, and that pause piece is really tough. I mean, your, your book, I believe, is, is Conscious Habits, and, and your podcast is, is Conscious Habits.

The podcast is Conscious Habits. The book is— it's— it'll happen at some point in time, Adam. But I feel like you said that for a reason, as another reminder from the universe, you know?

No kidding. Oh my God, I didn't even realize I was doing that, but yay! Hey, the universe just spoke through me today. Um, the best. Nothing better than that. Um, my— this podcast, which is called Change Proof, based on that book, was for the first 150 or so episodes called The Conscious Pivot, which was the first book I wrote called Pivot. And so this was— so you and I are like, we're, we're soul, you know, we're, we're, we're, we're related, let's say. Um, For sure. Because that whole idea of how it is that we, we pivot our thinking and, and what that looks like in moment to moment. Somebody once said, I, I don't remember who it was or where I read it, but I mean, it's just, I think, brilliant, um, that the only work we really have to do is to get this moment right. You let that sit for a second, right? Simmer. Or, uh, what would my daughter say? She'd say, uh, that's got to, um, uh, marinate. Like, marinate in that, you know? That with everything going on in your life, every hard— every hard thing, every frustrating thing, everything, whatever it is, all the good stuff too. But, but if all you ever had to think about— not dare not say worry about— was to get this moment right, how to talk about chunking something down to some— to its simplest and usable form. Because in the moment Would you hit send on that crazy email response? Would you stare at somebody passive, you know, that passive-aggressive look in your eye, like, or you unload on somebody or whatever? Like, all the ways in which we are, are cruel and mean and, and unlike, unlike whatever we believe our essence is. I, I don't have a problem in saying my essence is spirit. And for somebody else, maybe it's— that's not how they, they view themselves. But whatever you think your essence is, is that you? Is that really you? Or was that just that thought that said, I need to set this person straight? Or I'm pissed off for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with this situation, but this is about all I can take and I'm absolutely fucking done right, right, right now. I am finished. So that's— and you go Is that the only option you've got in that moment? I mean, because workplaces— and you worked in this space, you know— these workplaces today are more toxic, toxic than they've ever been. And that is an overused word. I'll say people are not being cared for, looked after, and, and that is why they are doing so poorly in that space. And that is not a— that is not a made-up story, that's not hyperbole. Every statistic you could pay attention to And ought to is telling us that that's the case. So I, I know the work you do is so important. I wanna know more about the future book that's based on these conversations that you have. Describe for us what a conscious habit is and why that is so important to you that you would spend your, you would make it a part of your life's work.

It's, it's, so I whittled down, I went, I started teaching this in organizations under a different or under a different company. And clients would come to me and be like, We can't find this, you know, where, where is this information you've been sending? It's not online, it's not in the learning, you know, system. And I'm like, oh, it doesn't really exist there. You know, this is like something I've just brought to the table. You know, I felt like as good as training was, we— I personally felt like we're putting Band-Aids on things and until we can help people see where the root of the challenge really begins. And so I had a client challenge me and, you know, said, well, what are you going to call this thing? Are you going to do something with it? And I didn't really have a methodology at that point in time, but I sat down and said, what's my own practice here? When I am out of alignment, you know, and I'm in a spot where I'm making the world responsible for my happiness or my, you know, whatever experience it is, when I'm making the world responsible for that, what is my go-to to bring myself back to a more conscious state? And the pieces are really simple. Number one is awareness. It's just, where am I right now? What am I thinking? What am I believing to be true? What, what is— what's happening within me? You know, like, it's, it's so fascinating. I think that our challenges really reveal such a great opportunity for us to explore what we believe to be true. Because, Adam, you and I could have a conversation and you might say something that pushes a button within me, and I might want to make you the asshole because that's what we do, and Karpman's drama triangle pops up. But the reality is that existed far before you showed up. And so you just happened to be the gift that exposed it for me. And so awareness allows us to just create and, you know, stop and pause to your point of what you teach people and just take a look at what's happening. We can't change anything we don't acknowledge. So awareness is the first piece. The next is ownership. And I'm so passionate about, you know, the other book that I have in mind is called How to Own Your Shit Without Losing It.

Oh my God, I had myself on mute, but I was just laughing out loud. What a great title. You literally locked that down. I'd go buy that URL, and you need to get at— you like solidify that content.

Yeah, that IP, that's so good. Uh, and the ownership piece is really teaching people, well, what do I control here? I control how I think, feel, and respond. I cannot control how the world thinks, feels, and responds. I can hold it accountable. I can influence it, but I cannot control it. And so then to take radical ownership over, yeah, what's happening within me right now and who do I want to be? And so we have this, you know, this ownership component that we teach. We also teach regulation. So I am a certified meditation teacher, actually. We take a group of women. This is a separate company I own called High Vibe Tribe Retreats. We take a group of women. We're getting ready to go to Costa Rica. We spend 7 days doing yoga and meditation and breathwork and visualization and transformational work. And I'm really passionate about the power of teaching people how to meditate in a way that works for them. But we teach presence, which is, hey, guess what? If your nervous system is dysregulated, your thinking is dysregulated. So how do we know when our nervous system is in a stress response? We often go to our mind for information. And I lovingly say that our mind is a little bitch. It is just— its only job is to find whatever evidence we've told it to find. So if I've told my— if I'm like, I'm not really stressed, my mind will go, yeah, you're right, you're not really stressed. Meanwhile, my body is going, hello, have you asked me? Because I'm the one who has this information. So we teach this concept of presence. Where is my thinking? Is my body regulated? How am I showing up for other people? We dig into ego. We help people understand their ego's persona and when it's leading versus not and how to put it in service of what they do. And then the last piece We teach people how to interject love because my belief system is that is the truest part of us, is this, this loving aspect. And so how do I interject love as a leader? Accountability is love. Listening is love. Um, you know, challenging is love. Um, you know, those are the components, the main components of what we teach, right?

Feedback can be love.

Feedback can be love. Yeah.

If it, if it, if the root of it is love, like if you're wanting to pour into somebody and help them. Them, then your feedback is rooted in love. And if you're— what you want to do is belittle them or put them in their place or whatever your other motives are, then the root is something else. It might be fear, probably just fear, right? But it comes out as hate or something else that's just fear in disguise. And, and then you wonder why people don't want feedback from you. Yeah, probably why you get shitty feedback yourself. And You go, oh, so that's how that works. Yeah, so fascinating. Oh my God, Amy, I literally— you're— we're simpaticos. I feel like I could talk to you forever and for hours. So really, really cool. I, I want to know a little bit about how it is that you are seeing the world of work. I know you're not like— your, your work seems to be taking you in some other directions and leading women's retreats and coaching and, and that kind of thing. But what's your, what's your take on the— because the people that you are working with in those scenarios, I'm sure what they're telling you when they're talking about themselves is there's, you know, they're saying, you know, I'm frustrated here, or I'm in pain there. And, and sometimes the story around that is the shitty boss that they've got, or the frustration in not being able to achieve something that they, that they want. Um, so Any thoughts on, on what's, what is broken in, in the, in the collective culture of the workplace? Yeah. I know, again, I've asked you a lot of really big questions, so I appreciate you being able to, you know, just lasso some part of that.

I think, and we do work in the, in, in workplaces. I mean, we work with leadership teams and are like, do y'all know when each other's egos get hooked and what that looks like? And most of our coaching is done with a lot of times CEOs, as we know that adage, it's lonely at the top. They need to stay safe place to dump all of their shit and not be judged for it, but with a business acumen, you know, backing that can help them untangle, own their part, and then also put some tactical stuff to that too. But I think what I've seen is that many, even though we say we're rowing in the same direction, we've got a really pretty mission, vision, and values, you know, thrown up on the wall, that a lot of us are serving our personal ego over the greater good. And we don't always know it or recognize it because we're talking the right language, we're pointing at the right things, But our, our, uh, our hearts and our behavioral alignment is not always, you know, rowing in the same direction. And, and I think a, a bigger thing, cuz this is my first time being a human that I remember, Adam. Um, probably for you too. Yeah. Uh, I think for many of us, the, the thing that I'm seeing in the workplace is for a long time we had this belief system of like, you get, you get a paycheck, just be happy and show up, right? And then we started to shift and say, well, some, many, many companies maybe believe like we do want our people to be happy here. And so they're connecting more to, you know, mindset. And I think there's some shifts that are happening, but I think this next evolution of work is going to be learning how to interject the soul and what that means. Because when our soul is missing from our work, we will be burned out. Burnout is not a byproduct of a to-do list. It is— it's a detachment from this deeper connection with the truest parts of ourselves. And so I hope that that is the next wave, is we've got the mind and body. We started with the body— show up, do the work. We're starting to interject the mind and giving a damn about how people feel in the workplace, right? How they think about their work and giving feedback surveys. But we gotta get the spirit involved for us to continue to really evolve the work that we're doing as well.

Yeah, I was watching an interview with Spike Lee, and he was talking about his new movie, which is a really killer movie, by the way. And he was talking about the work he's— part of the work he's doing is teaching a film class at NYU. He's a professor, you know, in addition to all these other things he's up to, which is, you know, quite amazing. He's, he's definitely one of those people that just has tremendous amounts of energy to give and seemingly no, no sort of off switch, which is, which is great, I suppose, at times. And, and he was, he was talking about what he speaks to his students about often is, you know, really, really putting in the work. Like he's saying, you know, there's an opportunity to really put in the work, but you also have to understand that you And I'm paraphrasing now. If you make hard work of it, you won't enjoy it. You won't be able to stay the course. Because he had lots of times in his career where he was going no place, and it took a long time to get someplace. And then even when you get someplace, as we all know, you get lost again. I mean, this is life. This is what happens. You get— You're always getting lost at some— You know, it's—

It's part of it.

Right, but you got to find yourself again and, or, or, and, and keep going. And he was so— at his age, you know, and that's the good thing about age, um, and probably the only good thing, it's that you gain, you gain this wisdom. And you do, because life teaches you. Unless you're completely oblivious, which I don't think most people are, then life teaches you. So you do have something to look back and go, oh, that's, that's interesting, that's That, that's— that makes sense. So I think he was— he's coming from that place where he's saying, yeah, you got to really work your tail off to succeed, but you— but if you don't enjoy it, well, you know, like, what will be the point? If you— I mean, it's somebody else's quote, you know, other than Spike Lee, but it's like, you— if you— if you're sort of trying to— if you're so intense about success that, that you've— that you're— that you're, um that you are in fact so wrapped up in that space that you will ultimately, even in the pursuit of that success, miss, miss it. You will invariably miss what you think is the definition of success because you're so intense about getting there. And so again, that's one of those little fun things that you can like try to balance on a pin, you know, how to be wanting something but at the same time also allowing for it to be. To let— to even not be— to not be attached to it at the same time that you're, you're wanting it. Um, so for him to say, you know, you've got to work, but you've also at the same time, um, got to make, make something— you got to enjoy it. And if you do it and truly enjoy it, then it's not actually work. You know, it's that, that kind of concept. And I think what you just said really strikes me as very similar to that, that that the soul— that if you don't— and I wrote when you said when, when our soul is missing from our work, that's, that's collectively, that's a problem. So, and that's something we get to, to have some control over, um, at least from a, from the standpoint of work, our own work in the world. We get to decide whether or not our soul is present, but we can feel the soul of our own work. And that, that's not a definitional thing, I don't think. We have to explore that for ourselves and figure it out. I was a lawyer for 20 years. I wrote a book called Pivot because I needed to, um, get out of my head some of the things that I was going through as I was choosing, consciously choosing, to get out of a profession that had been good to me, that from a lot of different angles but was destroying my soul. And so it's like you said, if your soul isn't in it, then where are you? I mean, I think Jesus was probably the one that gets credited with saying, you know, you can, you know, you lose the whole world. Like, you can gain, have the world, but lose it because you've lost your soul in the process. We can't do that. I feel like that's a crisis of the corporate world today, is that it has in many ways lost its soul.

It is. And I think it's, you know, back to the ownership or owning our shit. Like there is, there is a big portion of that that is ours to own. And then it's also on companies to be conscious about that of like, how do we really help humans flourish here and how do we provide this opportunity on the individual level? We do have to constantly remind ourselves, and I think especially in the US, like we just have a, we have a very intense, we are very high achieving, move, go, push. And all of us have that reflected back to us when we travel anywhere outside of the US. Because they don't operate, you know, you go, they're like, oh, we're on island time, ah, laid back. They can tell the American within us 'cause we're impatient. Come on, I've got somewhere to be. We have to really remind ourselves that we are human beings, not human doings. And that relationship with the being is such an important, special, connective relationship that is different for all of us. And when we're connected to it, we can also tap into the wisdom You know, because I think with age we get perspective. Wisdom is when we can sit quietly with our experiences and hear, you know, the whispers of truth that comes through. Wisdom whispers, the ego yells, you know. And so building this really beautiful relationship within yourself. And I mean, the other thing we're faced with, Adam, is like we've got these devices that constantly keep us distracted from being with us. I mean, the discomfort of standing in line and not having— not looking busy. I'm a very important person. I have email to check. Like, just the discomfort of being is a huge part of what we've got to learn how to strip away and lean into. And by the way, I just went on a 3-day silent meditation retreat that was no phones, no talking for 3 days. I haven't shut up about it since I got back. You—

all the words were pent up.

All the words. Well, I think the greatest teacher is like, I could not think of the last time— and I've been an avid meditator for 10 years. I meditate oftentimes twice a day. Um, but I could not think of the last time that I allowed myself to fully meet boredom and see what was on the other side.

Oh my God.

And I had to do that You're just killing me here.

This is hysterical, and I mean killing in the best, absolute best way. Um, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna just— for our audience and for you, Amy, and it sounds like you've read this book, and if you haven't, well then you're gonna freaking love this. Okay, John Mark Comer wrote a book called The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry. Oh, okay, this Elimination of Hurry, a great title, like the titles of your future books. And, um, and it's just It's tracking to some of the things you just said, including this, what you just said about boredom. And it is absolutely— it's— look, I'm gonna— the caveat to this, not a, a warning, but a caveat for people that might go out and buy this book too. Um, and I hope you'll, you'll be checking out my books if you haven't already. Thank you for that. Um, but if you go get this book, know for sure that it is a book that takes this, uh, a— it's a spiritual approach to this issue issue of hurry. I think that a person who has no, um, you know, is agnostic or is an atheist would have no issue in getting something really valuable, valuable out of this book. So that's what I would say. So if you do go get it and you do start it and you do go, oh well, they're talking about, or he's talking about this thing, and it's like, oh, that's strikes of religion or strikes of whatever, just like deal with it for a moment and get 50 pages in. That's one of the things we lay out in, in, uh, in, in our books is this sort of challenge around people starting something and then not finishing it. So yeah, get 50 pages in and, and see if you can stop reading this book. It's, it's really got a lot in it. And my God, um, speaking of a lot, Amy, you have gotten, you've gotten it, um, um, just taken us down some really beautiful paths today. And I'm feeling like this is the part, uh, this is a part one because these conversations are not super, super long, and we're kind of at the end here. I'm gonna ask you one last question, but I really do want to invite you back to have another.

Yeah, I'd love that. And please, I would love to have you on our show. I mean, we interview conscious— listen, I think this consciousness thing, it takes a village. We're all doing our own part and how we're called to raise consciousness through our own stories and ways that are impactful businesses and other areas. And it truly takes a collective. So I would love to, love to have you on Conscious Habit as well.

I would love that. Yeah. I mean, to me, the difference— so we define a conscious habit, funny enough, as a ritual. Mm-hmm. Because like a habit is like you brush your teeth with whatever hand you brush your teeth with, and then you don't even, you don't even think about it. But that's a habit. But a conscious habit is something different. And I'm, I'm guessing, I'm intuiting that that's at least some part of what you get at.

Mm-hmm.

In your, in your discussion. So I'd love to, that would be amazing. Um, Um, what I want to know is, is there— maybe, maybe you've answered this already, but if so, I got to follow up. Is there one thing that you do, one conscious habit that you have every single day that, that contributes, that gives back to you what we would refer to as resilience, like a resilience bank account? Now, you— the key to resilience is to deposit more than you withdraw. Haha. So what are you depositing into your resilience bank account in the way of of a habit each day? What is that?

I have a love practice. So it's really filling for me in many ways. It is starting off my day as part of my meditation, where I am filling every cell of my body up with just this unconditional love and giving myself what I might expect the world to give me. And then I practice— it's kind of like a loving kindness practice, often practiced in Buddhist traditions, I practice sending that love to whoever I'm going to connect with for that day. So if I'm speaking, I do a similar— Adam, I'm traveling all the time speaking somewhere, I might send it to an audience I haven't even met yet. I, you know, send it to you, and, and you and I have not met yet, of how can I just pour love into the energy of love into everywhere I'm going to show up. And I feel like the hardest part has been done then, you know. Like, you know, I, and I can walk around knowing that I'm bringing the right energy into my, into my day. It really helps me, you know, fill up that tank, um, and I think spread that good in the world too.

Beautiful, Amy. I do have a part B. I didn't expect that that was going to be okay. I thought you're going to say meditation, so I'm going to just follow the thread here and ask, is there one symbol for the people that either haven't done it or haven't done you know, been able to keep doing it or haven't done it well, etc. Is there one simple practice for meditation that you could say, here's a beginner way for you to start?

Yes. I have to first say, please know meditation is not clearing your mind. Many people feel like they're failed meditators because they're like, I can't stop thinking. And it's like, yes, the goal is not to stop your thinking. This isn't Zen Buddhism. The goal is to notice your thoughts. And so a very simple practice of just being still in the body and inviting a little more stillness into the mind is go to your breath. It's our life force. First thing we do when we are born is we inhale. Last thing we do when we say sayonara is exhale. So slowing your breathing down, you know, breathing in for a count of 4 and out for a count of 8, slowly making sure that your inhale is starting in the belly first, taking a nice deep breath and not just the shallow chest, sends a signal to our nervous system that we are safe.

Love that. Um, again, I'm looking forward to part 2 of this. I know our folks have loved it already, and I'll say to our audience as well, we'd love to hear from you. So if you've got comments, feedback, questions, you can go to adamarkel.com/podcast and leave those there. We'd love it also, and this is really an ask it's a request, and I get it that we all have lots going on. So if you can make a minute to just rate this podcast on whether it's on Spotify or Apple, wherever it is that you're consuming this, on whatever platform, and you can give us that 5-star rating if you feel that way, that would be great. And also share with any friends, family members that might benefit from listening to what Amy has shared or this conversation as a whole. That would be absolutely amazing. And Amy, thank you so much for being a part, to be a guest today, and for the— just for the connection, the amazing conversation we've had. Thank you so much.

Thank you, and thank you for the good work you do in the world, Adam.

And, and folks out there, one last thing as I say goodbye. Um, if you want to get into that a little more about what Amy was saying about how do you perpetuate loving kindness, what does that look like, there's a book called Soul Over Matter. That's another book you can check out. We gave a lot of book recommendations today. So with that, I will say ciao for now. Well, I just know, as promised, that if you're still— you're still listening for the postscript here, that you love that conversation, or you loved listening to Amy because she is just a beautiful soul. How, how cool that we ended up going— getting there in our, in our discussion, getting to the soul. I mean, how often is it that you get into a conversation with somebody, you listen to someone else's conversation, where they are able to get to that place in a natural way, in a really unpretentious or unplanned way, uncalculated? That's the universe and the mystery of it all unfolding right there. Because that was certainly uncanned and unplanned and just beautiful. Um, what she said about the ego and where it is that the ego can make a mess in our lives and how it is that we can get a beat on that and actually be able to override, at times, when we're conscious, that mess that we create with our egos, I think was just magnificent. And ultimately, her message her, her way of looking at things through consciousness, through conscious habits, and how we can cultivate those things intentionally for ourselves as a super tool to move forward in our lives and to be able to use it for good in the world, to be a tool for good in the world. Again, I think it's just magnificent. So I, I was leaning in so heavily to the references that she was sharing with us and the books and the work of Michael Singer and others, um, And really just thinking about where we are in our world right now, where we are in the business world, where we are in our roles as leaders, whether we're leading teams, other people, our own self-leadership, et cetera, the leadership in our families and among our community. Um, and, and there's no question that we need to be more focused on cultivating our souls and, and the collective soul of the organizations that we're a part of and the communities that we're a part of. So, um, I'll just say, if this is an episode that, that really resonated with you, please share it with a friend, a family member, a colleague, somebody that would benefit from hearing just how Amy was communicating, the, the way she was communicating, what she was communicating, and just the overall feeling of it. I think is, uh, is a feel-good— it's a feel-good episode, it's a feel-good conversation. It's a, um, it's one that I think is also packed with things that you can do next. So where do I go from here? What do I— what's my next step? And, and there were books mentioned and other references, including getting after more of what Amy's talking about by going to her podcast, The Conscious Habit. So, uh, with all that, I want to just thank you again for being a part of our community and, and for all the way that you, that you, you show us love by showing up and And we, we do what we do here to create a relationship with you, even though we may never meet you or see you or even hear from you. If we do hear from you, that's amazing. And I look forward to that with your comments, questions, thoughts, your, you know, anything is really well met here. And thank you so much for, for being with us today and always. With that, I will say ciao for now, and we'll see you next time.

Thanks for listening. We hope you now have even more tools and greater insights to build resilience and become change-proof. Remember to leave a review on Apple Podcasts and you may be featured in an upcoming episode. For more resilience tips and strategies, including support for building change-proof teams, visit adammarkel.com. To get your own free resilience assessment, go to rankmyresilience.com.