A Disney Insider's Look At Improving The Customer Experience

If you have ever been a Disney fan, this episode is going to be a lot of fun. Welcome to the Magnetic Marketing Podcast. Today we're going to be listening to Dan Kennedy as he talks to Vance Morris. Now, at the time of recording, Vance Morris owned a brick-and-mortar business in Maryland doing carpet cleaning, but he's going to be sharing with us an insider look at what it was like inside of the Disney Resort, and he's going to be talking about multiple different pieces, uh, safety of hurricane contingency plans, issues with the Tower of Terror, baseball bats, live fish, yacht experiences, Mickey's restaurants, and so many more. There are going to be a lot of different fun stories in here that you're going to want to pay attention to. So come on down, we're going to have a lot of fun listening to a Disney insider's look at improving the customer experience.

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Welcome to the Magnetic Marketing Podcast with your host, Dan Kennedy.

Good afternoon everybody and, uh, welcome to this Diamond call. If you're a Diamond member, you are in the right place. As you know, our guest, who I'm going to get to in a minute, is one of our own outstanding members, Vance Morris. And Vance has a Disney background, currently a couple of businesses. We'll, we'll get into all that. You also, some of you may recall seeing an advertising example of his in a fairly recent issue of the newsletter as a result of a little competition. So, and we have sort of accidental good timing because we'll be talking about Disney, and I have just returned from several days at Disney in Orlando myself. A small group of last year's Advanced Wealth Academy alumni and I spent 2.5 days there, some in session, but a lot of field trip stuff. So we were all over a couple of the parks and had a lunch with an Imagineer and spent some time over at the multimillion-dollar residential real estate development, uh, with the chief agent, real estate agent over there at Golden Oaks. And it was a, a very bright group of people, and we all learned a lot, me included. I always learn something when I go and think you know everything, and then you discover something else that they're brilliant at or that they've come up with or they have recently innovated to make money. Just quickly, so many of you will have been and have seen the trot out of the disposable rain jackets and, and umbrellas anytime there's a thunderstorm, which in Florida is Actually, most days of the year there's a brief one. This time, because it got down to 28 degrees, they were trotting out giant piles of stocking caps and gloves and merrily selling those, just like they do the rain slickers. And it was—

I—

it was the first time I'd seen it. One clerk told me they had only started doing it last year, so They now have an answer to an Arctic blast, just as they have an answer to a thunderstorm. And pretty much all answers at Disney, uh, lead to money. Um, so it was great being there, and I have some fresh insight, but mostly we will be plumbing Vance's experience. I do want to caution you We always try and avoid it when we can, but Vance is working on a cell phone. He has stepped out of the GKIC Peak Performers meeting also in Orlando in order to be on this call with us, and so his audio quality is not going to be what it would be on a landline, but better we have him slightly impaired than not have him at all. So again, welcome to the call, Vance, and thanks for stepping out of the meeting and taking the time.

Oh, definitely my pleasure.

Um, I just like to start by making sure everybody is familiar with you. And so you really have, um, two self-introductions to give. Uh, one, I need to make sure everybody understands your current businesses, and two, if you would, your experience at Disney, just kind of an overview of that.

Sure. Uh, well, currently I own a brick-and-mortar business on the Eastern Shore of Maryland, which is, if anybody knows, full of cornfields, cows, and chicken houses. Um, and it's a very rural area of the state of Maryland. Um, and to operate an oriental rug cleaning business and an upholstery and carpet cleaning business Uh, it has its challenges that we're obviously targeting the affluent, um, and we need to dodge the single-wide trailer that kind of get in our way sometimes. Um, my other business is I've recently started teaching other businesses how to implement Disney-style service, um, whether it be through a medical office or through an in-home service, uh, company, plumber, electrician, carpet cleaner, um, and more importantly, how to profit from, from that service. The, uh, my background at Disney is really kind of, uh, was, was all spent in the resorts. Uh, for those of you that are familiar, uh, with the Yacht and Beach Resort over near EPCOT Center, um, I was on the opening team for that. It was my initiation into Disney. Um, I worked aboard the Empress Lily, which was named after Walt's wife. I believe now it's some sort of crab house. I got the— I don't know if I would call it a pleasure, but I got to work at Pleasure Island back when it was a nightclub. This was Disney's experiment with booze and nighttime activities. And you could fill probably 3 volumes of a book on things Disney shouldn't have done all at just Pleasure Island. Yeah, you know, but Combining roller skates and alcohol at Disney was just a bad idea. We had the Rock 'n' Roller Dome. You could rent roller skates, drink a beer, and go at it.

I remember that thing.

Yeah, that was rough. But mostly I worked at the Contemporary Resort. It was the flagship resort. The one, for those of you who don't know, that's the one that the monorail travels through. And I was on— at the time, they were really revitalizing the resort experience back in the '80s. Is a very theme park oriented company. And the resorts were just, you know, an ancillary thing there. You had to feed them, you had to house them, but not much attention was paid to it. And in the late '80s, early '90s, a couple of the new executives, especially after the opening of Euro Disney, where, you know, the service level was just impeccable at the resorts as well as the park. And they realized that there was a vast amount of money to be made doing the resort piece a heck of a lot better. And so I was on the revitalization team and one of the areas, if you've been there and you've seen Chef Mickey's restaurants, that is my little baby. Still have friends who work there, amazingly. People worked there for 35 years in the same place. And I don't think I could have ever done that. But, you know, opening, reopening and opening that restaurant really was eye-opening because I got to work with some of the Imagineers, you know, interior designers and all of the systems that go into creating that magical experience for, for Disney guests. Our task was, and it was a 400-seat restaurant, and we had to figure out how to get Mickey Mouse through the restaurant in under 43 minutes, which was quite the challenge.

You know, a couple of the things that you've mentioned, you know, as you say, there was a time when they viewed Things like housing and feeding people as a necessary evil. And it is very clear that they have evolved to a point where they embrace necessary functions and utilities of all kinds. And, and and want to do them very, very well from an experience standpoint, and also want them to be, uh, independent profit centers of— in and of themselves. I, um, and I'm sure you've paid attention to the, the evolving, uh, MagicBand thing. Oh yeah. Um, which it gets better. Um, I noticed that it worked better this time than it did several months ago. Um, But, you know, there's a functional issue there of moving people more quickly and eliminating lost keys and lost credit cards and all of that in the parks. There's also the, the speeding up and the casino chip psychology of making money go away and having you spend just with a little beep of something that's on your arm. Which the last quarterly earnings report clearly indicates at the park level that per-head spending has gone up since the MagicBand. And then once you have to issue them anyway, then they very quickly invented jewelry for them. Exactly. So that wearing one would make you want to buy something. I just think they're brilliant at that stuff now. And And as you pointed out, at one time they weren't very good at it at all, but boy, they have gotten good.

They had the Disney dollars, uh, back in the '80s and '90s, right, where you exchange your, you know, your currency for, for Donald Duck-based money, um, and nobody ever turned that stuff in. They took it home as a souvenir. So there even were 20s and 50s in Disney money, and Disney got the real cash.

Yeah, that was probably the highest margin of anything on the planet. Uh, but they could only get about 20% of the folks to do it. The band, of course, is forced on everybody. Right. So you've taken money out of the equation with 100% of your customers. The other thing you mentioned that I think casual visitors underestimate is the precision with which they do things and deal with very large numbers. You know, you referenced getting Mickey through that restaurant and having him give sort of equal time to all 400 patrons in 43 minutes. That precision is all through everything that they do visibly and in many cases invisibly, but they're really great at this attention to detail thing that so many business operators aren't.

Well, that's the key separator, you know, from, you know, the great businesses and, and the whole hung businesses. And one of the things— and Michael Eisner talked about this back in his day— was all about, you know, how they— how we make the magic. And if you think about a magician, you know, the audience sees one thing. They see the illusion, they see the magic trick, the elephant disappear, disappear from the stage or what have you. But to the magician, it is a systematic, regimented, you know, fanned eye movement that's just been rehearsed and rehearsed and rehearsed so that it is just second nature. And that's how that magic is created for the magician. And Disney is very much the same way. You know, we had Oh yeah, Hurricane Erin. I mean, just put a hurricane plan, it would boggle your mind. We had, um, we were during Hurricane Erin, which was back in the late '90s, came blowing through, and part of the hurricane contingency plan was where do we put the people from Camp Wilderness or Fort Wilderness, the campground? They can't very well stay in these little lickety cabins or tents or in their in their drive-along trailers, they got to go somewhere. And the Contemporary Resort was one of the shelters, if you want to call it that. And for one night, we had probably about 700 Fort Wilderness campers sleeping on the floor of our ballroom. But everything's already pre-staged, you know, the pallets of water, the pallets of food, everything comes out and then it that in itself becomes an experience for that guest. They're a little nervous because there's a hurricane outside, but we were able to, in the morning, because the restaurant wasn't very busy the morning after the hurricane, he actually took the characters from our restaurant down to the ballroom. And if you can imagine, you know, having Mickey or Goofy tapping you on the shoulder as a 6 to 7 year old kid to wake you up out of your sleep. I mean, that family is sold on Disney, you know, for generations.

So the first thing that I wanted to kind of backtrack in, and a couple of questions, and then we'll get to application of this in your business and application of this in the businesses you now advise. But I wanted to backtrack all the way to Pleasure Island and booze and roller skates and mistakes. Um, I, I don't think most people appreciate how many things Disney screws up the first time and goes back and makes good a second time or a third time. Uh, sort of a, a creative and persistent resilience. And, and so maybe you could just talk about other than the roller skates and the alcohol, as you said, you could fill a book. I mean, a couple of things you witnessed that with 20/20 hindsight were ill-conceived and went awry and were fixed or replaced.

Well, you know, some of the clubs there— and Mr. Cotton specifically about Placer Island— some of the clubs there were tremendously successful because they had a very interactive entertainment component. The Adventurers Club, which I love. Yes, phenomenal. Um, you know, the Comedy Warehouse where they had the improv comedy, um, you know, it was more of a show. You had to sit with it, and you couldn't be too blotto at the Adventurers Club because you wouldn't understand what's going on. So it tended to have some of the more, you know, people that weren't there well, for the sole purpose of getting completely drunk. Um, you know, that's some really good, really good things. Um, but one of the big problems we had actually going back to the Yacht Beach Resort, they have there, they have a mini water park there as part of the resort. And originally they were supposed to have live fish swimming with you while you were swimming in this pool. Um, they never made it to opening because they, uh, the fish kept dying, uh, because they couldn't get the chlorine level right where the health department would let us open the pool and it wouldn't kill the fish. So they quickly, quickly scrapped that idea.

Um, yeah, swimming with dead fish. Um, um, you would have to have a mafia-themed park in New Jersey.

For that. Yeah, and we were all tasked with it. They say, you see dead fish, you pull it out. I don't care what your job is, you pull it out. Um, and then some of the early, um, you know, the early tests of, uh, the Tower of Terror, um, they did what was called a sandbag test. Um, and because they hadn't done that freefall drop in an enclosed space, I mean, they had that ride at, you know, in Texas and New Jersey and a couple other places, but it was all outdoors. All right. They hadn't quite accounted for the air pressure. Uh, so when the ride dropped, it created such a vacuum that all of the drywall inside the chamber came crashing down on top of the car. Um, and it was probably 2 or 3 months before, uh, the sandbags, um, in, in the seats. Survived. So I mean, just that they were, you know, bound and determined to get this thing right.

You know, it reminds all the way back to— we were at D23 this last time, and some of the people that worked with Walt at the World's Fair were there, and they had built an attraction there for Ford Motor Company. That had the new Lincoln cars on a track going through a building like the monorail goes in and out of the Contemporary. And this track came out a pretty good way over the parking lot so people from a distance could see the cars coming out of the building, looping back around and going in the building. And the guy said they hadn't really accounted for the fact that this had an uphill and a downhill factor to it, and it had different cars on it, like full-size Lincoln Continental convertibles and then little Mercuries and stuff. And nobody had allotted for the weight differential in these cars. So in a couple places where they slowed and where they came to a stop, they all smashed into each other. And they only had a couple days to open. So they wound up bringing people in, a whole auto body crew every night to fix all the damage on all the cars that had occurred during the day. And they had guys walking around with baseball bats, sticking the baseball bats in between the cars to keep them from smashing into each other. And, and that's how they operated this attraction for the entire time of the World's Fair. And here all these years later, we're dealing with a tower that nobody realized it was going to pull the drywall down on top of it. And nobody realized the fish were all going to die until the last minute. And it's sort of— that's part of the game. And we'll deal with it. And we'll fix it.

One of the larger things, you know, the problem with Pleasure Island, aside from, you know, the excessive amount of alcohol that people were ingesting after not eating all day and spending it at 95 degrees heat, um, you know, that fit the recipe for disaster. But the, the process that he had to go through to handle some of these folks— this is the only Disney park where people were regularly and routinely not asked to leave, but literally thrown out and/or arrested and/or sent out in an ambulance. Um, you know, so all around it was really difficult to have a boogie experience, um, you know, when you're surrounded by, you know, 19-year-olds trying to get a beer and take out, you know, security. We didn't call them bouncers here, they were security hosts.

Well, they are redoing that whole thing again. I'm sure you know. Yeah. Um, because, you know, they sort of replaced that whole mess with a new Downtown Disney, and they wound up not particularly happy about that either, right? And are pouring a ton of money into making it more Disney-like. Um, and, you know, again, they're, they're sort of willing to do that over and over again they admit they messed up the California Adventure thing and have redone and are redoing all that. Let me ask you on the flip side, that from all your Disney experience and work with the Imagineers and making the restaurants work, what really impressed you the most that you think is sort of uniquely Disney that most other business operators, probably including Universal Studios, most other business operators just really don't grasp?

You know, you know, aside from the obvious attention to detail, um, you know, and it is, I think putting in and really getting absorbed in the culture is tremendous. And whether you've got a 2-person business or, you know, a 60,000-person business, you know, having that culture, whatever it is for your business, communicated through everyone. I mean, when I was there, there was 40,000 employees there. And for, you know, all 40,000 of us to be singing the same song and to be getting to providing the same service. You know, I think that's huge. And the level of communication and being able to be immersed in that culture is one. But I think really, you know, when you look at the Disney core objectives, safety is the number one thing that all Disney Imagineers, all Disney operators, cast members— safety is the number one thing. But they need to make sure it's a safe environment. And they don't want people walking around, you know, you don't walk around thinking, oh, this is a safe place. You're made to feel that way. I think a lot of what some businesses don't do, they don't focus on, well, is this going to kill you? Is this going to hurt you? You know, what's the escape route? What's the— you know, a lot of folks, especially, you know, if you're in manufacturing or something, you know, a lot of that thought is has not gone into it.

It's interesting, that exact same point was, um, was enunciated to us by the Imagineer we just had lunch with. And, you know, they have their four pillars, and the first one of which is that people feel safe here. And, and I think you can expand that in business. It doesn't necessarily have to relate to physical safety in a physical place. It, it is, it is trust. Um, do I feel okay coming into a selling environment with these people? Um, I asked once, several of our people went over and took the Vacation Club sales presentation on, on my urging.. And, um, I asked once about show-up rate, people who book appointments that aren't immediately picked up, um, but are going at a later time. And there's less than a 5% no-show or cancellation. And I don't think that would happen anywhere else. And it happens there because people trust Disney. And feel even going into a sales pitch that they know is a sales pitch. They don't really feel uncomfortable about it. They feel like they're going to be treated okay. They're not worried about being abused. And I think you're right. A lot of businesses don't give enough thought broadly to how do people feel about us.

Well, you know, I mean, and you know, I mean, I run, you know, a business that is not held in high regard with most consumers. I mean, they did so many 60 Minutes or 20/20 exposés on, you know, carpet cleaners stealing and, you know, robbing and pillaging and things, using water instead of shampoo.

And yeah, exactly, I've seen all of it. The industry is very well known for bait and switch. Yep, right. We'll clean a room free and you wind up with a $300 bill. Exactly. Um, so you're right, you, you like timeshare. Um, the business that you're in now, your core business, is, as you say, not held in high esteem. Um, right up there with used car dealers, right? And, and so, so talk a little bit about how you've countered that.

Well, I mean, I have the obvious advantage of Disney experience, which I play up significantly, um, in my marketing. Um, but you know, absent even that, you know, the, the way I, you know, I mean, all of my employees, I mean, I mean, for me, it just brain dead simple stuff that you should be doing. You know, I mean, Disney costumes to my people, you know, they're, that my employees are in uniforms. You are dressed and pressed. My guys all carry extra uniforms. So you get messy on the first job. You look impressed and clean. On the second job, we approach our clients, we actually have a gift. So we have a pretty cleaning gift that we give. Um, I mean, the whole thing is scripted from the minute they park the van in the street and walk up to the house. Um, you know, we have to be let in. We don't barge in, um, because we're entering someone's home. Um, you know, so it's all scripted out on all these things to help put the client at ease and also to know that we are professionals in our business and we're not going to ruin your, you know, $3,000 sofa, or, you know, we're going to take care of you and we're not going to bait and switch you. And we educate them and we guide them and we let them make the decision that's right for them. 9 times out of 10, it's the one we want. Them to make, which is a higher-priced item. But really, just taking that time to, you know, to script out your service process, you know, it's huge in that first 2 minutes. I get cards all the time about my— oh my God, he was lovely, he sent me this, he did that, he took the time. You say all the time, it is so much easier to, you know, to serve people who are willing to pay because we can offer the service that can support that, um, or that's supported by, by the price. And, um, you know, and Disney does it all the time. I mean, heck, Disney defrayed their prices, what, last week? Yeah, tickets went up again.

Yeah, Carla and I were— I was laughing pointing it out to Carla. So, so Disney's reaction to the bad PR about measles in their California park is to raise the ticket price. That's their reaction. And yeah, it was Eisner, your era CEO, famously said, we can trust our customers. But I don't want people to miss— I mean, see what you just said, the scripting and choreography that is consistent is a hallmark of Disney and a missing element in so many businesses. If a business has— I don't know how many techs you have out there on trucks, but if a business has 5 and you experienced all 5 of them, in most businesses you would have 5 different experiences. And And in Disney, you would have, you would have the same experience every single damn time. And you use the words, you know, scripted from parking the truck to every step to the door and in. See, that's exactly what does not happen. And, and I just, for, I just had, for a very new client, I just had, um Supposedly, their 5 top salespeople on the phone recorded and transcribed their whole sales presentations, which is roughly a 40-minute sales presentation. There is so much variance from one to the other. I could give them to you and tell you they were 5 competitors rather than all from the same company, and you would believe me.

Right.

And, and, you know, that's just insane, but it is an insane norm. Um, and you have like every step, um, standardized to a best practice, right?

Exactly. And, you know, we take, you know, and as you said, I think you said it at in-person, you know, making everything mundane thing you do into an experience. And, you know, we have to knock on the door and we have to be let in. Well, why can't we make that an experience? Here's a gift before we even step into the door. You know, my guys are giving the client, you know, a little gift before we come in. Also helps with reciprocity later on when I'm trying to, you know, do an upsell. But, you know, I mean, think about Disney. I mean, you know, of course we had a 400-seat restaurant, so we would serve at breakfast upwards to 2,000 people, you know, in our 3.5-4 hour span. You know, I mean, and most of the attractions and most of the restaurants, they have what's called line entertainment. And that's entertainment for the people that are waiting in line. They got to wait in line. Well, let's make an experience for them. And whether it's a character or somebody juggling or, you know, guys tying up balloon animals, It just made the whole experience that much better.

The other thing, little things. So you mentioned your guys always carry a spare uniform to switch into if they get one dirty. Um, that's a very Disney-esque thing that again many businesses give no thought to. Um, they're frontline people. Um, when Several people I know do on-site inspections. I mean, there's women at the front desk in spas with broken fingernails. You know, that— there's a waitress at a restaurant halfway through her shift who has spilled stuff all over and is coming to your table with spilled stuff all over. I mean, we see it all the time. Why do you think businesses don't grasp that this is important and manageable?

Well, I mean, I think, you know, a few years ago before, you know, especially the middle class started watching every penny and what they spent, they just assumed people were coming back, you know, regardless of, you know, whether it was for the $9 special, um, that became the $7 special that became the $5 special. And it's really— again, it comes down to that culture and the leader at the top and what they allow to happen in their business. I mean, there's only a couple restaurants my wife and I can go to that she will actually sit through a meal with me because I get apoplectic when, you know, the fork has been sitting on the carpet in front of our table. And not only do all the waiters and busboys step over it, but the managers step over it. Um, you know, it's a black carpet with a silver knife on it. It's not like he gets hiding.

Um, and yeah, that would drive you nuts as a Disney person.

Oh my God, you know, oh, well, for years after I left Disney, I mean, I'd be walking through the mall, I'd be picking up paper off the floor. Um, you know, it's just ingrained in you, that's what you do. Well, I'd say, I'm not holding your hand now, you pick that tissue up.

All right. Our Imagineers said that whatever our job position is, we are also all custodians, and everybody learns the— what did she call it— the Disney scoop, um, of how to bend over and pick up that, that piece of offending and not break stride. Just keep walking. Yeah. So my, so my last question is really an advertising slash marketing question rather than an experienced service question, and it goes to the, to the flyer that appeared in our newsletter that, that you did. Uh, talk a little bit about your newspaper inserts in general and about what you did there.

Sure. The, um, you know, for a number of months, there's probably about 6 or 7 months, our local newspaper On Sundays, you know, when you get all of the, the flyers and coupons section, they would wrap it in blank newsprint. So it was a sheet of newspaper with no ink on it that, you know, they would do it ahead of time. So they all had to do— they would package this thing up on Tuesday or Wednesday, and then when Sunday came around, they could just shove the whole package in. And I'm like, this is just a big waste of paper. I can't believe they're not do anything with this. So I asked my sales rep, you know, hey, could I print something on that? And he said, I don't know, let me find out. And he came back to me and he says, how much do you want to pay? And I'm like, well, my first answer was nothing, but that didn't go over well. So we agreed on a ridiculously low price. And I actually can get, I get 50,000 of these things for $900., full color on key tribes. Um, and a one page or a full page color ad for this paper is like 17 or 1800 baht. Um, total per 900 and the distribution is only 14,000. So that 60,000 runs through, you know, 4 Sundays. Um, and I paid once, of course I have bought up the next year's worth of, um, you know, bad advertising because I'm not letting that one go.

You know, the, the principle of that is to be alert. Uh, you know, the whole infomercial industry restarted, um, after Reagan deregulated the airwaves, and it really restarted with people going to TV stations and saying Hey, you don't do anything with all that time after midnight. Um, most broadcast television went off the air at midnight or 1 o'clock in the morning, and they showed a picture of the American flag and they said, we're done for the day and we'll see you tomorrow morning at 5 AM or 6 AM. And, and people bought that time for $100, $200, $300 for the whole night. And just ran their infomercial, you know, 20 times. And, uh, those media opportunities occur in different places at different times, and nobody really thinks about them. Fran Tarkenton, who played quarterback for the Minnesota Vikings, uh, way back when, and then hosted some infomercials for us at Guthrie Renker. He hosted the first Tony Robbins show, he hosted Think and Grow Rich, etc. Fran's first big entrepreneurial venture when he left football, he invented, if you can call it an invention, the sale of ad space on airline ticket folders. You were just— if you flew American Airlines before Fran, you got your tickets in a little paper folder. That with American Airlines on it. If you flew United, you got United, etc. And Fran had a very— his conversation was just like yours. Um, he went to the airlines and said, can I pay, uh, to put advertising I want on the inside of those folders that are now blank? Um, and the initial deal was pay the cost of the folder. And then, as Fran tells the story, he locked himself in his office for a week and made phone calls. The one advantage he had was every business, every CEO would take a call at the time from Fran Targenton. And he sold the space for a giant multiple of what he was paying for it. And he held on to that space for a number of years. And made an enormous amount of money.

Well, you ever heard that really well? Actually, it's the hotel you host up in Cincinnati. The hotel TVs have, um, ads for Domino's Pizza on the hotel. The whole hotel TV is a Domino's Pizza ad.

There you go.

And yeah, I've been carrying that damn card around with me. I show it to everybody. This is disingenuous, and I'm sitting at a Renaissance right now, and I can't even read the word Renaissance on my card.

Yep. So, so the principle there is for people to be alert.

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