An Outsider's Expert Advice For Information Marketers

Have you ever had the opportunity to explain to a seasoned marketing professional what you're learning here at Magnetic Marketing? Whether or not you have, this episode is going to be a lot of fun. Welcome to the Magnetic Marketing Podcast. We're excited to have you here. In today's episode, we get to listen to Robert Scrobb as he interviews the then CEO of GKIC, or Glaser Kennedy Inner Circle, AJ Mirabendini. Now, AJ Medibendini has been the CEO of multiple businesses both before GKIC and after. And so what can the magnetic marketing world teach someone who has not only been the CEO of multiple businesses but is an outsider to these strategies we teach here? Well, let's let him share as we jump into an outsider's expert advice for information marketers.

Let's listen in.

I don't think there's anybody that has had a bigger impact in the field of direct response than Dan Kennedy.

The legend of Dan Kennedy should be ignored at your own peril.

They're not really lessons, they're kind of laws that you live by. Dan opened my eyes to what small business marketing looks like. Dan teaches strategic direct response that is timeless.

His ripple effect touches people who don't even know his name.

The world as we know it was changed because Dan Kennedy became obsessed with marketing.

Welcome to the Magnetic Marketing Podcast with your host, Dan Kennedy. Big breakthroughs always come from outside an industry. With McDonald's, Ray Kroc turned a great business concept into a franchise that's grown around the world. Tony Hsieh created and sold banner ads for networks on websites until he revolutionized shoe retailing by launching Zappos. From his apartment. Alan Mulally was named CEO of Ford Motor Company in 2006, although he is from the airline manufacturing business. Alan piloted Ford through the Great Recession and made the products and the company stronger before he arrived. Today we have another outsider who brings a great background and credentials to give us a fresh look at our information Marketing World. I'm Robert Scrope, President of the Information Marketing Association and author of the official Get Rich Guide to Information Marketing. Today's program focuses on getting an outside look at this GKIC marketing and information marketing stuff that you and I know so much about. My guest is AJ Arabidini. He is the CEO of GKIC Insider Circle and is a lifelong entrepreneur focused on the marketing needs of entrepreneurs and small businesses. His training, background, and professional focus as founder and CEO of two national marketing firms, AJ has been known as a passionate leader in the field of establishing and furthering a customer-focused culture and master of the entire marketing process. In his previous roles, AJ has led companies offering a full range of marketing research, strategic planning, creative media and fulfillment services. And it's a great pleasure to have you on an IMA call. Welcome, AJ.

Thank you, Robert. Thank you for having me on and really for all you've done for info marketers and GKIC over the years.

Well, thank you. Very kind. Well, I'm very excited about chatting with you because I think very few folks have any idea about your background, where you've come from, and, you know, how you've gotten here. And you and I have had the opportunity to speak several times, and I've really been impressed with your member-focused outlook and really what you're looking to bring to GKIC. And I think that a lot of the members listening to this, I think it's going to be a real breath of fresh air and really an exciting new direction and a continuation of what they've always loved about GKIC with a refreshed member focus that I'm really excited about.

Thank you. I'm looking forward to sharing it with you.

So it's like you're entering GKIC like the new kid coming into high school and then taking away the starting quarterback slot. Everybody feels like they could have done it better, but you come from from a 25-year career in marketing for small and medium-sized businesses. Why don't you get us caught up on the AJ beyond your biography?

I'll be glad to. First and foremost, I'm a father. I'm a father and a husband. And second, I'm a lifelong serial entrepreneur. I grew up in Ohio, graduated from the College of Wooster with a degree in marketing and advertising in the mid-'80s. And really from And from the get-go, I fell on the entrepreneurial side of the track, and I've kind of been on that track ever since. Right out of college, I had the option of going to work for the UN in New York City or working in the advertising department of a weekly magazine that I was going to invest in. And I chose obviously to go on the side of a small magazine that was only business for a year and went out of business after that. So right there I knew that I was determined to be an entrepreneur and I was determined to go down that journey. And it really started there and continued from there.

I've been—

I've worked in the advertising department of a daily newspaper, became the director of advertising. I was hired by one of the largest auto dealer groups in the country to create a marketing department for them. I did grew the company by 50% in a couple of years and from there I was invited and asked to be partners in starting an advertising agency which I agreed to and wasn't sure whether we were going to make it or not as most small businesses don't last but 6 months. But in 3 months we were already profitable and in 2 years I bought out my partners and grew the company, and I had the company for over 25 years and grew it to over 400 clients nationally in Canada. And through all those years, I've worked in all aspects of advertising and marketing as a designer in the sales department, media research, strategic planning, everything really that touched the life of our members and clients and their marketing needs. I was I was personally involved with, so I had a kind of a grassroots approach to learning the business, and I learned early on that, again, my passion was for small business, and my focus really throughout my career has been helping small businesses succeed in every way, but certainly in the focus of marketing.

Well, that's— I mean, it's pretty impressive. I mean, with the magazine, you certainly have the publishing chops. You know, you're familiar with what it takes to produce great content that folks want to consume. The auto dealer, and you're really aggressive about having to create leads for a sales team and accountable for actually moving metal and generating leads. And I think with, you know, 25 years at an advertising agency, you're not just out there publishing what you believe to be— to work in the world of marketing. You're actually implementing. I mean, your clients, you know, it's fine to be out there and sell yourself as an agency for a year or two, but to have a 25-year track record, obviously, then what you are actually doing in the marketing that— for all of those 400+ businesses has got to work. Or they're not going to continue having you as their agency for very much longer.

So it's— Exactly.

It's a tremendous pedigree of having more of demonstrated success around marketing. And I think it's similar to many information marketers. You've promoted yourself as an expert in marketing, encouraging businesses to invest in marketing to allow you to help dictate their messaging and media you did within your agency. What did the company that you helped build look like in terms of the number of employees? You talked about there's 400+ clients. What types of projects and, you know, what were you doing for those clients? Generating leads, generating customers? What kind of, you know, I guess what we would call marketing funnels were you creating within that agency?

So Robert, we were a one-stop shop. I've actually, in my career, I've run two different marketing agencies. The one, the biggest one, the one that I just mentioned, At our peak, we had over 70 people working for us, and we had, again, clients throughout Canada and every US state. We were what in this world they call a done-for-you service agency. So we handled every aspect, any aspect of a client's internal and external marketing and advertising, from strategic planning, competitive analysis, media research, media buying, ongoing market research, defining USPs, all kinds of creative database management, tons of direct mail, web design, social media marketing, SEO, PPC, really the whole enchilada of a company and of our clients' marketing was handled by us. We really were with quite a few of our clients. We were on a perform to pay— pay to perform model, so we were very incented to help them succeed, and we were The entire process was very clear that what work we did really was meant to have an ROI, and we really benefited from generating the highest ROI we could from our clients in a tactical, measurable way. So you name it, we've done it, and we've done it in a scientific way. We've done it, you know, from small mom-and-pop businesses to, you know, major organizations. I was in the early '90s, I actually I actually taught a marketing class for General Motors to their dealers that was focused on every aspect of business marketing that went on with it. So really the funnels we've created were on every aspect of a company's business and really the foundation of my belief and really part of what I bring to GKIC is the fact that marketing is an integral part of business success, that it really needs to be intertwined and harmonious with every other parts of small businesses' success and existence, and that's really what we brought to the table. And really, when you do effective marketing in one dimension, it should be able to generate success in a lot of other dimensions in an organization. So we were held accountable for and were paid for creating success in every aspect that our marketing was affecting in our client companies.

Any projects that you're particularly proud of?

You know—

The General Motors program seems pretty fascinating, but—

Yeah, I mean, that was certainly flattering at such an early stage in my career to be invited and to speak. But really, I think my claim to fame, as I consider, and I would think my cohorts and the people that knew me in our space would consider, would be customer-focused marketing, which is a concept that I put together after spending a lot of time doing market research with R.L. Polk in the '90s. And this is way before social media was even a glimmer in anybody's eye. And basically the focus of our customer-focused marketing was having our clients create their own communities and marketing themselves from inside out rather than from outside in. And basing their businesses and their USPs around relationships, which is really oftentimes the truest unique selling point of a business. So we specialize in aligning personalities and values of our clients with their marketing, which is an art in and of itself because a lot of times people try to be what they're not. And when they're true to their essence and they're true to their expertise and to their values, that's when it shines the most in marketing. And we were very good at defining those things and putting them within a marketing campaign So I've always been committed to the notion that people buy from other people. And as marketers, really we're all in the people business more than in the marketing business. And I'm very proud of having helped hundreds of small businesses align their values with their marketing and putting their relationships high on their USP list. That's exactly the root of GKIC's success, you know, and what Dan Kennedy's done. And certainly my goal as its new leader is to maintain relationships relationships and put relationships as the highest factor in our unique selling point within our membership.

And what types of business categories, I guess, or niches as we would call it, what kind of categories were you— what were your clients in?

We had— our root was in the automotive industry. We were the national partner for NAMAD, which is the Northern American Minority Auto Dealers Association. We were partners with Lexus and Toyota. But from there on in, after probably 10, 15 years, we evolved into the motorsport industry. We had one of the largest motorsport marketing groups in the country. And then we got involved in brick and mortar of all types from restaurants, country clubs, health clubs, you know, bookshops. We were marketing partners for the largest independently owned music retail store biggest store in the country. And really every aspect of it that you can think of, brick and mortar and retail, we have partnered with and worked with. My second business was more of a B2B industry, B2B company, so our focus tended to be different than my largest company, which was a B2C organization. And we worked with everybody that was consumer-based.

You did auto dealers. Well, auto dealers, they just sell on the cheapest price, don't they?

You know, isn't that funny? That's what people think, isn't it? And so much of the positioning really is to change the value proposition and change the messaging and really to create a long-time, you know, a customer value proposition that I think is the name of the game certainly for that space. And that really is really what we focused on with them a lot.

That's neat. And it just so happens I've got experience with, with auto dealers and in particular motorsports. I've worked in the— worked with motorsports dealers and mostly the dealerships, helping them with systems and profitability and such, and employee training and things since— at least since the mid-'90s. And starting in about 2003, working with with Florida Harley-Davidson dealers and put on an extensive amount of training for them, and we do cooperative marketing for them here in Florida with the blessing of the motor company, which you can imagine how challenging that can be. But we certainly did not have that blessing when we first started, and now they've seen the results of what Florida has done versus other— there are other areas, and, and the proof has been in the pudding. So I can imagine, you know, dealing with motorsports who, you know, they, they're so disconnected. Half the time they got into business, like, you know, they decided to become a Honda dealer because they wanted to buy Hondas at wholesale more than they really wanted to become a profitable dealership. And I got to believe that that's been And that was pretty fascinating as an experience for you.

You know, you touch on a point there that I think is a really, really critical piece of our discussion here, somebody talking about GKIC. And really I think our mission and my mission as the leader of GKIC is to have that understanding that a lot of small businesses are just as you described the motorsport dealers, that a lot of small businesses are led by individuals individuals who are really, really good at something that they do. And they go about following this passion and they pursue this business and they're very successful at it initially because all they're doing is they're pursuing their passion. And whether it's gardening, whether it's carpentry, whether it's, you know, law, whatever it is. But then soon they come to find out that there's a lot of other of these moving parts and pieces to being in business. Certainly things like HR and people and sales and taxes and whatever else. But really a key part of that is marketing. So the irony in the work that we do at GKIC, and really the work that I've done in my career, is helping people to help themselves. Because as a small business, a lot of businesses think they can or they must take on such a critical piece of the business, but they have no idea what they're doing. Or if they know what they're doing, they're not very good at what they're doing. Or even if they're very good at what they're doing, they don't have the resources, mainly the time, to focus on doing what they're doing. So they suffer. And really part of our role and part of our mission is to support an entrepreneur so they can be truly what they are meant to be. So they can focus on their best and their strongest suit and let us help them with figuring out what to do with the rest of the moving parts, which is marketing at this point in time.

Very, very smart. And I think that that, you know, I think as a— really broadens who GKIC can be marketing to. When you are— and it's certainly important to have that ascension path. And so the folks that are absolutely dedicated and love to learn about marketing and do marketing and really engage in every facet of copywriting have the opportunity to do just that and learn all those things.

Things.

And by also focusing and having products and programs for the folks that aren't interested in doing it themselves but have still the need of generating new clients, but in the interest of growing their business, helps you greatly expand who GKIC is able to to market and sell to.

Completely. And so much of my focus really, the stamp that I hope to leave on JKIC is adding the implementation set of services to what we do. Clearly there are many, many very, very successful, very effective entrepreneur small businesses that can manage all the dimensions and all the aspects of their business. Especially when it comes to marketing. And to them, we're glad to provide them a lot of great ideas, a lot of great tools that they can DIY it themselves and evolve their businesses that way. But I also want to be able to support the small businesses that have the need for marketing and they don't have the desire or the time or the skills to do it themselves, and yet they need our help to help them do it. And that I hope that GKSE evolves and we're working on adding an implementation side or we can work with them in a done-with-you model, help them implement marketing as an integral part of their businesses, which to me is even better than a done-for-you model because it's teaching them how marketing fits and where it fits and how it works and all of the nuances that are involved with it as it comes to the success of their business. So that's, I think, going to change the playing field for us and our members in really trying to help them achieve the best success that we can help them achieve.

Awesome. I really want to come back to that because, of course, as an agency person, it's— a lot of folks have kind of looked at, oh yeah, I would love to do more of that, but the size of that task and the logistics and all the pieces that need to come together in order to make that happen make that happen. It seems like a management nightmare, but since you've actually been in that business already, you already know how to do that. Being able to generate leads and customers of folks that are interested in marketing through all your other products helps the agency piece, the done-for-them piece, be all that more profitable.

You're right, and really the model that I'm suggesting and we're pursuing for GKIC, the done-with-you model, not the done-for-you model, is I think the best of all worlds for us and really for our members because the done-for-you model, which is really the model that I come from, provided a disconnect for our clients. The fact that they really didn't want to know what the heck we were doing. I mean, they didn't want to understand the processes. They didn't want to understand the methodology. They just wanted the results. They were just willing to pay us and, you know, for us to just go away and make it all better and just create sales. Versus the model that we're pursuing, the done-with-you model empowers, trains, and collaborates with the business owner on how to do marketing, which really to me is the ultimate correct way of doing it. You can give a man the fish for a day and feed him for a day or teach him how to fish and you fed him for life. I mean, I think it's really that model of helping a small business understand the relevance of marketing versus just, you know, doing it for them and giving them the results because marketing changes. It shifts and evolves as the product changes, as the market changes, as the competition changes.— as the needs change, a small business needs to adapt. And in effect, they need to reinvent their marketing. And I want them to know how to reinvent their own marketing. I want them to be integral part of the success of their marketing campaign versus shopping it out to someone to just do it for them and then have to hire them again and do it again and again and again. So it's a noble way, I think, of doing marketing. I think it's the way that I think will be very effective for our members.

Well, and I think going back to your comment before, so much of what you do on the marketing level is really integral in their fulfillment. And you can create the greatest campaign, but if that doesn't— if we go into the motorsports sports analogy or auto sales, you can create the greatest campaign, but if that doesn't filter through to when they walk in that dealership, there's an instant disconnect that voids the marketing's effectiveness.

Absolutely.

And so you really need to be doing it with the leader and coming up with their their value proposition and helping them implement it throughout. And not only is it more effective, but it also makes the project bigger, which is another little side benefit.

Absolutely.

If you're in the done-with-them business. What most surprised you about GKIC coming from outside the world of GKIC-style marketing?

So truth be known, I really didn't know anything about GKIC or Dan Kennedy before I was recruited for this position, and I spent quite a bit of time with my due diligence really learning what GKIC had done and certainly who Dan Kennedy was, having read his books. And now that I've got to know him pretty well, I'm really still to this day now, I think I'm on my 6th month here, I'm really amazed by the complexity of it all. I don't think people understand how many layers and how many moving parts there are to GKIC in order for it to be able to do what it does, to be able to support the thousands and thousands of members that we have, to be able to deliver on the deliverables that we have, whether it's our publications, whether it's on our products, whether it's on our events. Whether it's on our coaching group, we have a lot of moving parts that are choreographed artfully. And we have an amazing staff here that work harder than any of my employees in any of my companies work. There's people here that spend just hours and hours beyond their required time to get the work done and to deliver However, you know, once you realize that GKIC really is an international company, you know, we had— we have clients really all over the world. We had over 20 people from Ghana that were at our Info Summit. We have, you know, hundreds of members in Australia, New Zealand. We have a licensing agreement in Japan that they repurpose a lot of our publication over there. We have a big contingency in Europe and certainly in the UK. So, you know, we're dealing with all of the time zones. We're talking about all of the different product deliverables. We're talking about, you know, sales and support all over the place, creation of a product. And to do it as well as we do it and to the level that we do it, you know, is just an amazing— it's just an amazing orchestra of parts and pieces that when it's done well, it's just beautiful to listen to and watch. And really, the more I see it, the more I understand it, the more respect I have for what Dan and Bill did to create all of this. I mean, their vision at a time when this kind of a business model was unheard of is pretty impressive, and I think it speaks to me credit to Dan's genius and his view of the marketplace and what to do with it. And the fact that we can bring such a sheer amount of wisdom and intellectual property and to create it at GKIC, that's really a credit to my predecessors and certainly to our employees, and I think a huge boom and a gain for our members today into the future just because there's just so much more that we're doing. There's so much more content and knowledge that we're creating. We're pursuing as part of my initiatives, we're seeking out some of the best, smartest subject matter experts in the world on matters that touch small businesses and we're creating, you know, just volume volumes of content and products that are going to be touching every aspect of a small business's existence. And the work that goes into that and the amount of attention to detail that goes into that is, you know, really, really amazing for this size company. The size staff that we have, it's really unimaginable the amount of work that we're able to do and the quality of it that we're able to put out. So, you know, that really is my— after 6 months, my head is still spinning from the massive amount of moving parts that are here.

And what I found too is that the GKIC member or customer is really bought in at an emotional level far more than a subscriber to Inc. magazine, say. And not that there's anything wrong with Inc. It's a terrific publication. But the GKIC member is really passionate about the type of marketing, the content there, the people involved. And I think that seeing that as part of your team, that they— that your team feels like they're part of a mission far greater than publishing some tips and information. This is really about helping small businesses grow, creating jobs, building the economy, changing the lives of your members. And it's just, it's just really beautiful that that's one of the things that that you've picked up and been impressed with that your team has really embraced from the beginning?

Well, listen, we have a lot of options and we have a lot of paths in life. A lot of people in the last 6 months have asked me why would I want to take on this company. When I was recruited, I was in a state of semi-retirement. Golfing 3 days a week and skiing 30, 40 days a year and spending a lot of time with my kids. And I've since left my kids behind in Colorado and moved to Chicago to take on this job. I haven't touched a golf club in I don't know how long and I'm working harder than I ever have in my career. And the reason that I'm doing it isn't the money because I'm actually not making more money than I've ever made before. I'm really doing this because GKIC stands to make a difference. As hokey as that might sound to people, as unbelievable as that might sound to some people, I think when you get to a certain stage in your career, you really want to make a difference. And I think that's what GKIC represents to me. And I'm here to tell you that's what it really stands for a lot of our employees— not a lot of our employees, all of our employees. So many of our employees are entrepreneurs themselves who have been in business. And really what we understand, the great value proposition in GKIC beyond our content, beyond our coaching, beyond our events is the fact that we're a community. And something that I know and I think you know as a small business is that it's an awfully lonely world. And what we bring to the table is is a haven. We're a place where you're with your kin. We are a small businesses tribe and we care deeply. We understand those unspoken silences that people that aren't entrepreneurs and small businesses don't understand. We understand the sacrifice. We understand the fear. We understand the exhilaration and we want to be that for small businesses all over the world. Because it is, as you said, really the ultimate mission in helping economies. It's helping families. It's helping societies. You know, the backbone of our economy is the small business world, and anything we can do to help that is, I think, an honorable cause. And when I chose to take on this position, I knew from my own experience as a small business that a lot of the big players players in the space that are good at this kind of work really don't come to the small business storefront just because there's not enough money there for them to make it make worth their while to be a Fortune 1000 company. That's exactly who we want to help, you know, because we want to be in that space where a lot of the big boys don't want to be because we care, because we understand, because we feel like we can make a difference. Difference, and we're very committed to that. And I think all the way, you know, from Dan Kennedy's approach to certainly what I am about, you know, it's really a love affair with small business, and it's trying to make a difference. It's trying to, you know, work hard to be a change in the way small business is treated and how we can help them succeed. And the rest of it, yes, I mean, is this a for-profit organization? Organization completely. And— but my belief and my conviction and my compassion is the fact that I think if we can deliver that community and if we can provide that level of service and support and success for small businesses, the financial gain is naturally going to be there. It's a byproduct of that level of compassion and support and service rather than as the initial part of it. So yes, we have a very dedicated group group, and again, a lot of small business experience that happens here in our offices. And, you know, we're there to make a difference, and that's really our passion. Nice, nice.

And now you've had the opportunity to attend an InfoSummit and be introduced to this whole world of information marketing. I expect that a lot of it is— you probably recognize seen before, maybe called it consulting or called it publishing in the past. What surprised you most as you've come to learn about this whole information marketing world that those of us in GKIC live in?

I'm stunned that I wasn't as aware of it as I should have been throughout my career. And I'm really impressed impressed at how effective it is. You know, it really is the small business dream on steroids. And it's universally applicable to so many people that are in business and in small business. And I think it's just a matter of training and education for them to understand, you know, how information marketing can take entrepreneurship to a whole whole new level, you know, working really no harder than you would in a normal brick-and-mortar small business environment, you know, but evolving yourself and thriving yourself through the knowledge you've created and gained in the space that you've been. And I'm amazed that not more people are doing it, you know, I mean, because it's, you know, I had kind of clichéd it in my own mind before coming to GKIC is that, I mean, it was only for a certain sector of the business community that could be an effective information marketer. And really what Dan's taught me and Dave D's taught me and GKIC's taught me is that, you know, I mean, it really— it doesn't matter where you are. If you're good at what you do and you know what you're doing, that there are others that want to learn from you and you can leverage your skills and your knowledge into creating a whole different business that's even more lucrative than it probably could be in a brick-and-mortar, hands-on kind of a style.

Well, it's really very similar to what Ray Kroc did. You know, the McDonald's brothers were really quite happy living in their homes which was the original store. I don't know if you've read the books, but the original store was kind of on this little valley, and the McDonald's brothers lived in homes up on the hill overlooking the store. And they were quite happy, you know, making their money and having a successful restaurant and serving their community, and that served their needs. And here along came Ray Ray Kroc, who were able to sell that same type of lifestyle and dream to other people around the world. I think that's the real magic of information marketers, that they're able to take those tactics, the breakthroughs that give folks the type of business that they really wanted when they they started a business or the type of life skills that they wanted and help them have a shortcut of delivering. I really think that over the last probably 10 or 12 years, the world has moved away from information marketers. There's been so much free stuff on Twitter and people posting articles on LinkedIn people posting things that has really been embraced. And folks have just been able to find a lot of free articles out there just by searching for it or Googling it. And what I've seen with this whole movement on college campuses where they're looking to— from the outside it's all about, oh, well, college kids just want political correctness. But you know, they call it the youth of today is really like completely shifted on the other side of the spectrum from the youth of 10 years ago. The youth of 10 years ago wanted free information and anybody to be able to spout off and say anything they wanted, whereas the youth of today, which is the trends of tomorrow, are all about wanting real, the facts, having things distilled, having things made useful for them. And it's really back to published, edited content versus having this just random sharing of ideas, and every idea is equal. They really want it more homogenized.. And I think that that is something that really bodes well for an information marketer who's in the business of taking all these random ideas and putting it into a step-by-step process that somebody can follow.

I couldn't agree with you more. And I think a real distinguishing factor that I think small businesses need to consider as they're considering information marketing is that while there might be a lot of information on the internet and there might be a lot of free information, people want information from those who have applied it and who've succeeded with it and can represent it. So it's not just a matter of getting information, it's getting information from a reliable source that has walked the walk. And I think that's really the great opportunity that a lot of small businesses have that they can leverage into an information marketing business. In this is their experience, their track record, their proven stories of success, and even their stories of failure, you know, I think makes them a much more reliable, much more relevant, much more credible source knowledge, knowledge source than others. And I think that's really what makes information marketing effective, because if you look at the ones that are really so successful, I mean, look at Dan Kennedy. I mean, the information about marketing is everywhere, but Dan Kennedy's brand of marketing is so unique to him that it makes his version that much more believable, that much more reliable, and that much more credible because it's coming from a place of wisdom and experience. I think that's the support and I think that's the impetus that I think a lot of small businesses need, small business owners need to become information marketers.

So, from coming out from the outside and seeing these information marketers, what are some of the things that you look at and go, "If you guys only did this, this whole information marketing world would would be so much more successful.

Any insights or tips that you've looked at when you look at information marketers and go, "Geez, why haven't you guys figured this out?" You know, I've since taken on this role at GKIC, I've joined our various coaching groups and I've been at our boot camps and I've spent a lot of time with our members, which is something that I really I'm passionate about. I really want to spend time and I want to shake hands and I want to listen to people tell their stories and listen to their successes and failures. And something that I'm really still at this day and age surprised about is how ineffective or non-scientific information marketers— and obviously you can't brush this in such a broad brush stroke, but some are still being ineffective in using social media. Social media, I think, can become such an effective tool for information marketing and for getting words out and creating targeted databases and expanding the base that would be so well profiled. I think the social media makes information marketing easier than it was at any other point, I think, in the history of marketing. And beyond that, I find too many information marketers that I look at still not doing a good enough job targeting their database and, you know, being really scientific as to who they're talking to and what they're selling to them and when they're selling to them, you know, which then ties into the the mother of them all, which is member retention, you know, which is a conversation that you and I have had really even for DKIC. You know, I mean, that's so much of it for an information marketer. I mean, you spend so much time, you know, creating followers and getting yourself known and heard and seen and accepted by members and followers.— the point is to retain that. The point is to have a lifetime value for people that are following you versus just the short-term gain of getting them in and selling them something or communicating something to them. So I would say a lot of the member retention, but I certainly think, you know, using the tools that are out there and changing all the time in social media, I think a allow for information marketers to do a better job of attracting the right kinds of leads and then targeting them better as they continue to grow their business and evolve their funnels.

I think that's brilliant. And I think you would probably remember in the late '90s there was this sort of business fad called one-to-one marketing and you positioned What you said earlier was really very similar to what some folks would call one-to-one marketing where you were focused on the customer experience. I think that the one-to-one marketing was very primitive compared to today's CRM, but I think that a lot of folks have bought the CRM them without an understanding of the one-to-one marketing theory of way back when. They are sending out the same broadcast to everybody out of sheer laziness and also because they're overwhelmed. Like you were saying, there's a lot of layers in order to get these businesses done. Very often one email gets sent to everybody because that's all the time we have to really think or focus on it. But what you said I think is very, very important that with a marketer having at least just sending out, if you're doing a blanket email to promote some sort of livecast or product launch or something that you're doing, or new product that you're doing, at least outlining unconverted leads versus members versus past members, just stuff like that to be able to talk to each of those folks differently because they really have a very— Somebody who is a longtime member has a very different mental picture of you and what you stand for than somebody who is an unconverted lead. And the unconverted lead probably needs to know a little bit about why on earth you would be recommending something when the longtime member already has a relationship. And if you say, you say click here, they've already clicked. So when you send one email out to everybody, either you're completely boring and your member, or you're not giving your unconverted lead nearly enough of what they need in order to be able to maximize those opt-ins. I think it's really, really smart, as you were saying, to at least slice and dice the list and communicate with them in a smarter way.

When I got here, we at GKIC were guilty at times of doing just that. And really for us it was just a matter of the sheer volume of communications that we were doing that I don't think we were being as good at profiling and segmenting and targeting as we should be. And that's certainly one of the big pushes that I have put on since I've been here. And, you know, anymore with the CRM tools that are out there, but, you know, I mean, pick whatever you wish. You know, there are so many tools available now to help to help you being able to tag and target your database in a much more effective way. But I think information marketers and really marketers in general need to be able to take advantage of that. And so that's an emphasis that I've put on at GKIC. We're making a lot of investments right now in profiling our database even better and to communicate more surgically with our database and our membership than we have before. So yeah, I think that's really a low-hanging fruit for everyone, but certainly that's what I see as a need for some of the information marketers that I've been watching.

And I get— this would be a terrific InfoSummit session. And I've seen a lot of folks give this lip service and talk about it. I haven't seen anybody come out with actual Emails. These are the 4 ways we sliced and diced our list. These are the 4 different campaigns we ran as a result of chopping up our list. And this is how we communicated with each of those audiences in a unique way. I think it would be a brilliant and informative program that would help information marketers, or really any kind of business see exactly what you're talking about. Most people talk about it, but I haven't seen anybody actually show their hand, so to speak, and reveal what they really are doing.

I just made a note as you said that, and we will be adding that to one of our bonus sessions at the InfoSummit, and we'll show the behind the scenes as to how GKIC profiles, its database, and the different communication tools that we use to target the different aspects and segments of our lists.

That'd be great. Now, with your GKIC members, the folks that are gold, you know, and there's, as you said, thousands of them, what kind of mistakes do you see them making that create opportunities for GKIC?

I think they are symptomatic of the general small business community, and I think some of the flaws and some of the issues that I see there is a lack of focus. You know, as I was saying, most of our members are hardworking small businessmen and women, you know, who are busting their butts on a daily basis to, you know, provide a livelihood to their employees and provide a good life to their families, and they just don't have enough time in the day to do everything that they need to do. So some things fall through the cracks, and oftentimes it's marketing. So I think it's a lack of focus. I think— and Dan talks about this all the time about, you know, too many shiny objects. There are just so many people that are offering so many tools and ideas and tricks and tips and stuff like that, that, you know, they're all very good, but, you know, they're not at all effective unless you can implement them. And that's, again, that's why my push is towards implementation. I mean, it's not just about creating the next shiny object, but it's teaching you how to implement that shiny object in your business, which I think is a weakness for the members that I'm seeing. And frankly, at some point in time, is not investing enough in learning from experts. You know, there's one of our great members, longtime members, Ron Ipac, had recently had a great graphic that I copied and shared with some others, and it showed an iceberg, and, you know, with the majority of the iceberg underwater. And, you know, his whole analogy was, you know, the tip of the iceberg that's sticking out of the water is the stuff that you can kind of research and find yourself, but the stuff that's under the water is the stuff that experts have figured out that you need to be able to make an investment in to learn from them, to learn from their mistakes and their shortcuts and their evolution that I think not enough of our members consider that as an option of really listening to someone who's been there and done that. And we're going to be bringing our community again, some of the brightest and the smartest small business experts who have figured out how to do it and have been successful at doing it. And I think it's crucial that our membership and really small business people all over really take the time to invest in learning because that education and that evolution is a never-ending process. I just hope that we can be there for our members as they reach out for more and we can give them the best that we've certainly been able to gather and help them evolve and thrive with the stuff that we can help them with.

AJ, thank you so much for being on this program. I'm very excited what you have to bring. You know what? It's an exciting time to be part of the Information Marketing Association.

Robert, again, thank you so much for all you've done for GKIC and information marketers. I'm thrilled to have been here and I'm thrilled to be at GKIC. I'm wearing sunglasses around here all the time because the future looks really bright.

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