Championship Thinking With Pat Williams

What life lessons could you learn if you took a Basketball Hall of Fame inductee who went on to become a prolific author, speaker, and co-found and manage multiple teams and sit them in a room with Dan Kennedy and talk about examples of championship in the lives of Walt Disney and Rich DeVos? Welcome to the Magnetic Marketing Podcast. We're so excited to have you here today. This is going to be an epic episode. Pat Williams is the former general manager of the Philadelphia 76ers and co-founder of the Orlando Magic. He's also in the Basketball Hall of Fame and a prolific author and speaker. And in this episode, Pat gets to talk about what it means to be a champion, including pulling examples from those champions from whom he's been able to work with and around, and the lives of Walt Disney and Rich DeVos. Let's listen in as Dan Kennedy interviews Pat Williams.

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Welcome to the Magnetic Marketing Podcast with your host, Dan Kennedy.

Good afternoon, everybody. Welcome to the Diamond Call. Real pleased to have with us today Coach Pat Williams. Got to know him a little bit. He and I were both at Adam Witty's Authority Marketing Summit and Advantage event this year. Both of us inducted into the Authors Hall of Fame. Pat deservedly, me more as a courtesy I think. But— and so you— if you don't know Pat any other way, you may well know him as a senior VP in sort of the maker, which we're going to talk about, first guy with his boots on the ground when Orlando got an NBA team, the Orlando Magic, owned by somebody that Pat has written one of his great books about and that I have some childhood connections to, Rich DeVos. Pat's got 3 big claims to fame here. He really understands what it takes to be a champion in whatever it is that you're doing and has spent his whole life in sports working with champions. He's an author of a number of just terrific books including a series called How to Be Like and then fill in the blank. His How to Be Like Rich DeVos book. Is really just a terrific book. As most of you on this call know, I am a huge Disney freak and student of Walt. Pat's book, How to Be Like Walt: Capturing the Disney Magic Every Day of Your Life, may well be— I would agree with the Disney scholar Tim O'Day— it's certainly maybe the most enjoyable book about Walt ever to read. It may well be the best book about the essence of Walt Disney. And like Jim O'Day, the Disney scholar who delivered that praise, I certainly read books about Walt dating all the way back to the 1930s, and I own about 60 or 70 of them, and this is really just a masterwork. Besides being a writer, his third claim to fame is, which is rarer, he's managed to be a successful writer, actually publishing a bunch of books and getting paid and so forth. Third, in between all of that, Pat's obviously a very healthy guy because he's written more than 30 books. He's got some astronomical number of offspring here, the father of 19 children, obviously using the rhythm method there. 19 kids, 14 are adopted from 4 foreign countries, jokes apart, and I think a bunch of grandkids too if I'm not mistaken. So Pat, thank you for taking the time and being with us. I appreciate it.

Dan, thanks a million. Nice to catch up with you again. And yeah, we had a nice visit in Charleston, South Carolina back a while ago, uh, going into Adam Witty's Hall of Fame. And we were there at the Charleston Aquarium, if I'm correct. We were down there among all the fish and the turtles and the sea creatures, and that was quite a time.

I, I, I, I tell people that in my case, being inaugural with you inducted into the Author Hall of Fame seems a little fishy.

Well, we had a good time, Dan, and I enjoyed visiting with you that night, and I'm certainly glad we can hook up now.

So I sort of have 3 big broad questions for you, and they don't necessarily connect well, but the first Going back in for this call, going back and rereading for the umpteenth time because my copy has yellow Post-it notes and pink Post-it notes and whatever, your How to Be Like Walt book and reading the How to Be Like Rich DeVos book, the commonality that leaps out about both of these guys is a particular attitude or mindset or belief system about selling. I'd just like you to talk a little bit about that. Zig Ziglar, who I was— you know Zig well and who I was on with for 9 years, used to give a talk called "Selling: The Proud Profession." I think people have sort of been beaten over the head about it being the opposite. If you would just talk a little bit about that, I think that would be great.

Well, there's no question there are similarities between Walt Disney and Rich DeVos. First of all, they were incredibly passionate and enthusiastic about what they did. In Walt's case, it was movies, it was theme parks, it was television shows, and just passionate. Rich DeVos, the same way. Partner, J. Van Andel, created Amway from scratch in 1959 and built that company into a worldwide enterprise now worth, I don't know, $13, $14 billion company through sheer passion. Secondly, incredibly hard workers, both of them. They left nothing to chance, Dan. They outworked people. I don't think they were super gifted. They had strengths, but the one gift they had was they worked hard, really hard, and productively. And third, they could sell. Oh, they could sell. Walt Disney was constantly having to sell bankers, and he was having to sell his own staff on projects. He was a nonstop salesperson. None of those great things that he did happened by chance. He needed partners. He needed people working with him. Rich DeMoss the same way. Nonstop salespeople. And that's nothing to be ashamed of. That's nothing to be embarrassed about. I don't care what field you're in. Great leaders are great salespeople. In the political world, in the business world, in the education world, in the sports world, you've got to be able to sell. Those are some thoughts, Dan, that come to mind immediately.

You know, it's so important. I think people look at a— particularly at a Disney, and it's natural to focus on the creative side of all the accomplishments. And even to think that, you know, that was the whole ball of wax when really, to your point, maybe Walt's— it's a great phrase— nonstop salesman. Maybe Walt's willingness to be a nonstop salesman was at least as important, if not more important, than How many bricks go into Sleeping Beauty Castle and can we really take a 40-year-old fairy tale and make a movie out of it? What song ought to lead off Mary Poppins? All of that that people tend to focus on when really, if you study Walt, as you point out, there probably wasn't a day that he wasn't nose to nose, face to face, in front of a group somehow having to sell his way to an objective.

I think you stated it very well. I think that's exactly the case. First of all, he had to sell his brother on many of these outlandish ideas. His partner was his older brother, Roy Disney. Walt was the little brother. Roy did recognize that his little brother was a creative genius. But all of his ideas cost money, big money. And Roy was the one who had to go figure out a way to pay for all of Walt's brainstorms. But Walt was constantly selling his brother, and then they had to go sell the bankers. Walt had to sell his staff. And many of those staff members, Dan, told me when Walt got in front of them, to act out a movie idea he had or a ride at Disneyland. Oh boy, they said he was unbelievable in that setting and could just sell them. And when it was over, they were sold. They were sold. And so selling is a noble profession and nothing to be ashamed of. When I hear somebody say, well, I sell for a living, I salute them. Uh, because without capable salespeople, Dan, you know, no company could function. Nobody could— no organization would work. We need salespeople. It's a good profession.

So when you guys went into Orlando, um, and, um, with an NBA team, um, obviously that has to be sold where they're where there was no market before. Talk a little bit about the start of the Orlando Magic from a— as much from a marketing and sales standpoint as from a sports standpoint.

Well, Dan, here's what happened. I had been the general manager of the Philadelphia 76ers for 12 years, including our championship team in 1983. I was looking for a new adventure, a new challenge, and I had made contact with some business leaders in Central Florida. So I resigned my position in Philadelphia, moved to Orlando, which certainly wasn't the Orlando of today. This is back 30 years ago. I mean, there had never been any major league sports there. There was no arena to play in. There was no skyline. There was no Universal Studios. I mean, it was a— It was, as I look back, you know, kind of a, I don't know, midsize or smaller southeastern market. But when I got there—

I think it's fair to call it a small market.

You know, it was— yeah, that's a good point, Ken. And I— yeah, so I got down there. The first thing we had to sell was the community that we could do this. And the best way we could show to the NBA that we could do it was to get deposits on season tickets to a team that didn't exist and where they never had big league sports and where there was no place to go see where your seats were because there was no building that had been built. So I spent the better part of a year traveling all over Central Florida in front of every group I could get in front of, uh, telling them to, uh, put down $100 deposit on, on these season tickets at, and that the earlier they deposited, the better choice of seats they would get. This went on for month after month after month. When it was over, when we finally went before the league, I could tell them that we had deposits on 14,000 season tickets. That was a pretty staggering number really when you think about it. And I got a big-time course, Dan, through that. About selling. Frankly, it gave me enormous confidence about selling. I really came away from that experience feeling that I was pretty good at it and that I could really go sell anything to anybody. It was a really great experience for me. Long story short, at the end of this 10-month, 11-month period, the NBA bought in. They liked what we had presented. They granted us a franchise to start as a league member along with Miami, Charlotte, and Minnesota, by the way. But it was a very, very big and important experience in my life. And you worked—

you were hired by and worked personally with with Rich on this, right?

Rich came later, Dan. We, uh, the ownership group was local, uh, local investors. And the first 2 years that we were an active team, the '89-'90 and then the '90-'91 season, uh, the local owners, uh, owned the team. Uh, at the end of the second year, they felt that enough of them wanted to sell the franchise that they all went along. I had met Rich DeVos, oh, about a year earlier. I'd gone to see him about being the principal owner to bring a Major League Baseball team to Orlando. And he had agreed to do that. Well, they— the Major League owners decided to put teams in Miami and Denver, so we didn't get it. But the DeVos family had spent enough time in Orlando that they were really— they really felt welcome. They liked— the idea of a basketball team, and they bought the club in the summer of 1981— excuse me, 1991, I'm sorry. And they bought it, and they've owned the club ever since, which is now 25 years. And so I got to know Rich through that, and as you pointed out, that led to the book that I wrote some years back called How to Be Like Rich DeVos. That was really a real pleasure, really an exciting time to put that book together.

So tell me something that the casual observer, you know, you got to live in a lead cave not to be aware of Amway or at some time to have wound up in a living room where somebody drug a chalkboard out of a closet. And drew the circles. Today, PowerPoints and look at it on the web. But still, tell me something about DeVos that most people wouldn't know that you think is particularly significant about the incredible and enormous success that that he and Jay managed to create out of a garage.

I, uh, I came away after putting that book together, Dan, I came away thinking that Rich just may be the most unique businessman, business leader, uh, in our nation's history. And, and here's why I said that. Uh, first of all, uh, he had enormous success. Secondly, it never went to his head. He has remained a humble, serving-hearted man through all of this. Thirdly, outstanding leader in many different fields. Fourth, he never abandoned his faith. He's a strong Christian, has been his whole life, but never, never sacrificed those principles, you know, for the sake of doing well in business. Next thought, he and Jay Van Andel transferred their business to the next generation who are now running it. And so many companies that are started by powerful men, you know, when they transition to the next generation, many times it falls apart. Here's another thought. Extraordinarily generous, both men. I mean, they have been so giving in the field of education, in the field of health, in the field of the arts, in the field of sports. It's amazing, for example, what they've done in their hometown of Grand Rapids, Michigan. And that's another thought. They never abandoned their hometown and sought to go, you know, go big time. And on and on we go. I mean, I don't think there are a whole lot— oh, and here's one other thought. They've raised their families well. There's another thought. They did not sacrifice their families and their children for the sake of building a great business. On and on we go. I don't think there are too many business leaders I like those two men, and I have studied Rich DeVos very carefully, and I come away saying he's the real deal. He's 90 years old, by the way, Dan. Jay Van Andel passed away a few years ago. Rich is 90, still sharp as a tack, still very much with it, and still helpful with his business. He loves his basketball team that he's owned for these years. Very involved and enthusiastic about that. Quite a man indeed.

You know, the ability to transition, to transfer, and not have things fall apart, as you point out, in family businesses, which his thing very much is, although a multi-multi-billion-dollar enterprise, it is a family business. Disney was a family business. You have polarity there of the ability. One of the things that we teach is that the ultimate entrepreneurial achievement is replacement. Delegation is one thing.

Replacement is quite another.

If you look at DeVos and if you look at Disney, this is a rare ability to to be able to transition out and transfer the reins to the next folks, be they family or not, and not have the enterprise traumatized if not in collapse. And I think that your book about DeVos and DeVos's most recent autobiography, Simply Rich. Both give a lot of depth about this, and people that have family-owned businesses ought to pay attention.

Well, Dan, I'm glad you pointed that out, and I would encourage people to— I got a lot out of Rich's new book, Simply Rich. I would encourage people to read that one. And then plug in the book we did, How to Be Like Rich DeVos, and you'll come away a better person. You'll come away a lot sharper. You'll be inspired. You'll say, you know, I want to be like that man. He's really a good role model. Oh, hey, Dan, one other thing I would tell you about Rich. He's often asked his role with Amway, and he simply says, I'm the head cheerleader. And that's what he's been doing for all these decades, just rooting people on and cheering for them, either from the podium or in person or by notes. You know, whenever I write Rich, he'll And he'll write me back, handwritten note on his stationery, and he always signs them the same way. Love ya, Rich. Or proud of you, Rich. I mean, he really is a big-time cheerleader. And when you see him, you know, he's constantly saying, ah, couldn't have done it without you. This is how he talks to me. Couldn't have done it without you. We wouldn't even be in Orlando, Pat, if you hadn't come to see me. I can't thank you enough. I mean, that kind of reaction. Listen, that's the billionaire, you know, relating to the pauper, you know what I'm saying? And he is just a marvelous encourager. And Dan, we need more of them. We need more encouragers in our life. We need more uplifters. We need more empowerers. Rich every day is doing that with people and you feel awfully good about yourself when the top guy is rooting for you.

It's a good transition to almost my last question. In business and in sports, you spent your life around champions, including great coaches, obviously. So what's the most important thing people ought to know about coaching?

Well, Dan, let me just say this. I have just finished writing a book. It came out this winter actually. It's the 100th book I've written over 40-plus years. It's called Extreme Winning, and I talk about the 12 qualities that the Extreme Winners Possess. I'd like to do a book someday about, oh, I don't know, extreme coaching and just do a very thorough, in-depth study of coaches. Here's the first thing I can tell you about coaches. It's the word teacher. They're teachers first. So many of them started out as teachers in high school. Or teaching a subject. Vince Lombardi was a high school teacher. And it was Lombardi who said, "They call it coaching, but it's really teaching." So that's the first thing. Secondly, the great coaches are lifelong learners. They never stop learning because their business is changing so rapidly. And that's a good lesson for all of us. Third, They are passionate about what they do. They're enthusiastic. They are really, really into it, Dan. Every coach I've ever been around. The fourth thing is they are extremely hard workers. Nobody outworks the great coaches. They put in hours that we couldn't even imagine And then the fifth thing I would say, the coaches that I have been around that I've really admired, it's called people skills. The really good ones have the ability to relate to people, not just their players, but at the ownership level and at the equipment manager level, the media level, everything in between. Those are the ones. And then the final thought I would share with you, I just read about Bob Iger, the CEO of Disney, and he said this. He said the number one quality you have to have to be a great leader is optimism. How about that? And in coaching there are so many problems. You run into problems every day.. But you better retain an optimistic spirit because if you don't, that's going to infect your whole roster and destroy your team. So I like that recent piece of information from Bob Iger. He feels optimism is the number one quality of great leaders.

Well, I'd encourage you to write that book. Cognizant of your time, I want to shift gears because there's a I think unrelated question. Not everybody on our call will have an interest in it, but many for their own businesses write. Many publish a book or two. Some more. Some are Advantage clients, by the way. So, you know, your number of books is— it keeps mounting. I thought it was 60 if I'm not mistaken. You just called it at 100 and I imagine you're at work on the next one. So tell us a little bit about your approach to writing and your approach to sort of the business of being an author, of being able to to get enough books out there that, uh, you know, that you can stay alive and have the opportunity to do the next one and the next one and the next one?

Well, Dan, here's, uh, here's what I would say. First of all, you've got to have a topic that's burning within, within you that just has to come out. I, and I don't think you can fake that or manufacture that. I think you've got to have a topic that is just burning within. Secondly, you've got to work at it a little bit every day. People ask me how I put these books together. Well, I read constantly. I read 6 newspapers or so a day. The most important thing to me in writing is reading. I'm constantly gathering stories.

I save them.

I keep them filed by category. So that when it's time to write, uh, you, uh, you've got a lot of your research, a lot of your material is done. And one editor told me years ago, she said, save your stories, write them down, keep them on file, because we cannot— as readers, we can't get enough stories. We're hardwired to retain stories, not PowerPoints, uh, thank goodness. In my case, Dan, I have a series of pros, wordsmiths who helped me pull all this together. You know, I could not have written the number of books that I have and also what's on my platter without help, and I need that help. And so, uh, that's good. Uh, so, so, and then the next thing, Dan, the next thing I would say is that this— once you write the book Now the big job comes. You've got to go out and market. You've got to go out and sell it. I've learned this about publishers. They're very good at getting books out, but not so good in promoting them or marketing them. So the only person who really cares about your book is you, the author. You've got to go out and sell it. You've got to talk about it. You've got to try and get help from the media. You've got to do everything in your power to sell and hustle that book. And keep a bunch of the boxes of the books in the trunk of your car. I've learned that. And in my case, in speaking, it sure helps to get permission to have books available to sell after your speech. That's awfully important. Because if you're not out there hustling the book, trust me, nobody else will be doing it. Those are a few things that I've learned.

Most authors would second it all. We all learn the lesson, some destroyed by it, some motivated by it, that publishers are really printers. That's so true. But not much more than that. Thank you, sir.

Appreciate your time, Pat. All the best to you. Take care. Have a good weekend.

Thank you.

Bye-bye.

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