How To Identify & Captivate Your Tribe

Let me ask you a quick question. What would it be like if by the time you left business school, you jumped into a brand new role of director of consumer products in an existing company and turned it into a multimillion-dollar business all by the time you're 25 years old? Welcome to the Magnetic Marketing Podcast. And today, that is the story of our guest, Max Simon. Now, Dave D is going to be interviewing Max Simon, and they're gonna be talking about some of the things that actually make this work far easier for you as you are building your business. And one of those things is what Dan Kennedy calls building the herd or building your tribe. So Max is going to distinguish for us the difference between a tribe and a niche, because there's a very subtle nuance here that you need to get just right. Plus, what are the steps that you need to take in order to carve out your herd and alienate everyone else? Is that really one of the fastest roads in order to be able to grow your business? Let's find out as we listen in to How to Identify and Captivate Your Tribe with Max Simon.

I don't think there's anybody that has had a bigger impact in the field of direct response than Dan Kennedy. The legend of Dan Kennedy should be ignored at your own peril. They're not really lessons, they're kind of laws that you live by.

Dan opened my eyes to what what small business marketing looks like.

Dan teaches strategic direct response that is timeless.

His ripple effect touches people who don't even know his name.

The world as we know it was changed because Dan Kennedy became obsessed with marketing.

Welcome to the Magnetic Marketing Podcast with your host, Dan Kennedy. Well, hello everybody. This is Dave D., Chief Marketing Officer of GKIC, and welcome to your Gold Member CD, My guest this month is my very good friend, Max Simon. Max is the CEO and founder of Big Vision Business, which is a leading global authority for training entrepreneurs to reach more people and thrive financially. His message has reached millions of people and he's been personally endorsed and promoted by some of the biggest names in the world like John Assaraf, Mark Victor Hansen, of course, yours truly, and Martha Stewart. Martha Stewart even awarded Max the prestigious honor of being the next big idea. In just the last few years, and I've been following his business and his career for such a long time, I'm so proud of this guy. He has generated millions of dollars and created thousands and thousands of loyal customers. His main passion and central focus is to help big vision entrepreneurs build a thriving business that's on purpose, in service, and highly profitable. Max, I'm really psyched to be talking to you. Welcome to the GKIC Gold CD.

It's so cool to be here with you, Dave. This will be a lot of fun.

Yeah, we're going to have a lot of fun. Why don't you just, Max, give a little bit— tell us a little bit about your background and your story, because it's really fascinating and quite frankly it's very instructive as well.

Yeah, I have a feeling I have kind of a different history than a lot of other people you bring on to the show because I came into the business world through more of the kind of wellness and spirituality world. My father, who actually did pass this year from a brain tumor, a pretty wild, crazy kind of circumstance. But he was Deepak Chopra's business partner, and over the last two decades, him and Deepak Chopra built the Chopra Center, which is kind of widely considered the world's leading establishment for healing and transformation. And so I grew up in this world of watching, you know, just basically an idea go into,, you know, a set of mega best-selling books and an internationally recognized actual wellness center, a brick-and-mortar place. And I watched just basically a dream go into something that literally impacted millions of people and made tens and tens and tens of millions of dollars. So from, you know, kind of a very early age, I saw what was possible in this area of offering service and support and information out into the world and making a great living doing it. And out of college, I kind of joined the Chopra Center team, and at the time they had this products division that was incredibly poorly run. I mean, the brand was just everywhere and the technology was not up to speed. And so I took on the role out of business school of being the director of consumer products and turned that into a multimillion-dollar business all by the time I was 25. And also became the lead educator for the Chopra Center, where I spent basically about a week to two weeks of every month traveling around the world speaking to thousands and thousands of people about wellness, about consciousness, about living a more balanced and healthy lifestyle. And so it was a great experience, really powerful. And then I left to start my own business, and that's about the time when I met you, because I realized that running my own business was a million times more difficult than running somebody else's business. I mean, for me, one of the biggest challenges was actually selling, selling myself, if you will. I noticed that when I was selling other people's products and services and when I was representing somebody else, I could be the most confident person in the world. And then for some reason, you know, when it came for me to start selling my own stuff, I just, I had a much more difficult time with that, not to mention just the whole intricacies of running a business. You, my friend, Mr. Dave D, were one of the most instrumental people in my life of shifting the direction, the focus of my business, and you really helped me see that the real area I should be playing in was helping people that were very similar to me in terms of having a kind of a spiritual basis and a desire to do something really big in business, because I actually didn't launch my business in the business area. Through my whole history, you were the one that kind of like— I remember that meeting so clearly that day when we were sitting around the table and you were like, "I got it. You're doing the wrong thing. You're doing the wrong thing. This is what you should be doing." I took that one piece of advice from that roundtable that we had, Dave, and I launched and I restructured, rebranded my business. Over the last few years since we've been doing that, we've just been, for lack of a better saying, kicking ass.

Today, we don't have one of these huge massive lists that a lot of people build in the industry, but I'll tell you that probably nobody in our business converts higher than we do. I mean, it's not uncommon for our webinars to convert at 20% to 35%. Our live events, we get about $4,000 per head of people that are buying stuff at the actual events. I mean, our last event only had about 110 people in it, but we did just over $400,000 in revenue.

Yeah, and in fact, let me just, let me just interrupt you just there because that, that's a really important point. Because also the market that you're in, most people would say, hey, these guys don't have any money, they're not going to spend any money, right?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I'm in a, I'm in a space where people are infamous for being not just— I wouldn't call them broke, I would just call them unwilling to invest for most, most other most other people, if you will. You know, I mean, every business person that's ever tried to enter our space, they'll say, people don't have any money and they're too whiny to get results with.

Right, right. And you just, and you've just really knocked it out of the park. Every year you've experienced growth. And what's really cool is the lifestyle that you lead, because you really practice what you preach. Right before we got on the call, before we started recording, I said, hey Max, you sound a little tired. He says, no, I'm not tired, I just I just finished meditating. I'm mellow. Talk a little bit about the lifestyle because I think that's really, really important for people to hear, too, because it's not for you just about making money. I know that. It's about impacting people. You make a lot of money, but you also have an incredible lifestyle. Talk about that a little bit, then we'll delve right into the questions.

Just as a little backstory, I mentioned it briefly, but one of the really— it was a very transformational experience for me. My dad died just a few months ago, and, and he died of a brain tumor, which was pretty ironic because here was a guy who was literally a pioneer of mind-body medicine. And, and even up until that point, I had spent most of my life really like driving pretty hard to this idea I was going to get somewhere. Like, I don't even know if I could put it in concrete terms, but like I always had this idea like once I do this, I'm going to get here. And I've always been incredibly healthy and an incredibly almost balanced individual, but for some reason this whole experience with my father really shifted things so radically for me and I realized that there's nowhere to get. It's not like I'm going to get to this new destination and all of a sudden I'm going to be happier or healthier or anything else. And I think part of that was the experience I went through with my dad of actually watching him die, but part of that is I'm a twice-a-day meditator and I spend time every single day just sitting in still with my eyes closed. I practice yoga 4 times a week. We, every single month, will take an entire weekend, 3 or 4-day weekend to go away and just unplug. I mean, I drink these vegetable juices every day, which most people think are pretty gross and weird, but I really genuinely believe that part of what's important to us, not only as entrepreneurs to be successful, but just as human beings trying to find meaning and fulfillment, is to really take care of ourselves.. And so everything that I kind of have talked about and teach, I use wholeheartedly in my own life just to keep me in a space where I feel really good today and I'm really just in a space of kind of joy and happiness regardless of what's happening externally. And the interesting thing that I found is that by doing that, especially in the entrepreneurial space, it gives me this kind of interesting— I would almost call it like an edge because most of the other people in the entrepreneur space are so stressed out and high-strung and you can almost tell that even if they're making money, they don't feel very healthy, that people in all different industries gravitate towards kind of our programs and our events because they want to figure out this kind of unique angle that I've been able to grow this business so rapidly and also still maintain a real space of balance and health.

So I don't know if that answers your question, but yeah, yeah, yeah, it's beautiful. And by the way, people will think you're weird. Just so you know. That's good. That's one of the reasons I'm having you on. I wanted to have a different perspective here. Let's get into that. You truly are a master at building very, very responsive lists. Let's get right into the topic here, which is finding your tribe. Let's just translate that for folks. You call it a tribe. Dan Kenley would call it finding your herd, finding your market, finding the people who you're going to serve. What exactly does it mean, Max, to find your tribe?

Well, it's a perfect example actually. You know how you were just like, "Some people are going to think that you're weird," and it's true.

The fact of the matter is that not only have I become okay with that, I actually seek to create some alienation. This goes against a lot of what people oftentimes believe about their business, but I seek to alienate the people that don't resonate with me, and I seek to really truly connect so deeply the people that do. I think one of the things that I noticed as I was growing my business is that I would be out and I would be speaking at events. There's something I do that's very strange that I actually do genuinely do it for me, but actually people have now started to call it a gimmick. I did this at your event actually. I will put on a full business suit, but I don't wear shoes. I do that and this is, again, I'm speaking in my total crazy spiritual language, but it makes me feel very grounded when I feel like I can actually touch the ground with my feet. And when I put on, I put on 3 or 4-day events where I'm the only speaker, you know, I'm actually hardcore training events. And so that's one of the things that I do to stay really centered. And so I go to these events and I've watched, actually I remember at your event, I remember very clearly, I was speaking to the audience and I could see about half the room like literally almost like instantly fell in love. They were like, oh my God, this person is so cool and so unique and I get it. And the other half of the room had their arms crossed and was like, who is this hippie? You know? And, and, and to me, that's exactly what you want to happen. Because in this day and age, I think we are as a society beginning more and more unique as a culture. Like, I think that the natural progression of the world and with technology and media and, and just culture as a whole is creating more and more like real subtle but powerful differentiation between us. And ultimately, that's creating deeper levels of belief systems. And so the deeper the belief system, the more they're going to either actively want to follow you and love you, or actively want to run away from you. And so if instead of trying to kind of be this person that blends in and makes everybody happy and doesn't piss certain people off, you really decide to say, not only am I going to be I'm going to be completely okay pissing certain people off, but even more than that, I'm going to be completely excited about really stepping up to lead my tribe and having a unique point of view. That's when I found that the group that you're stepping up to lead will literally do anything for you. I mean, I've had people fly out for one-day events from halfway around the world. I've had people that are willing to invest $33,000, $54,000 to spend a few hours with me one-on-one. The kinds of things that we've been able to, you know, and kind of almost pull off are insane because of the fact that the people that are in my tribe, they really, really, really feel like I'm the leader for them because of the fact that I'm willing to alienate all the other people that are going to get freaked out and weirded out by me. So that's why such a huge part of what I teach is to find your tribe and really be okay with becoming a leader that's going to totally and completely turn some people off, but yet completely and totally speak to and lead those who are really going to be the ones you want to serve and speak to and ultimately become your customers.

That is a total Dan Kennedy philosophy and practice. For the folks listening who are thinking, "Well, wait a minute. This guy is very different than what I'm doing." He just gave the entire Dan Kennedy philosophy in a few minutes. That's exactly what Dan does on the opposite, quite frankly, end of the spectrum that you do, which is, you know, I'm a staunch conservative, you know, that kind of thing, which absolutely repels a whole bunch of people, but it attracts to him a tribe, a herd who is insanely loyal to him, will pay him insane amounts of money and get the same kind of results. So super important points that you just made there, Max.

Let me ask you this question. Yeah, go ahead. I was just going to say, I think the reason why people— I mean, this happens to me all the time within the people that we teach is we'll share these things and they'll hear it and they'll be like, "Yeah, that's a really good point," but then they won't actually make substantial drastic moves in the way that they communicate. Because really, if you think about it, we're just talking about how do you communicate. Talking about how do you represent who you are and communicate that to the world in a way that speaks to your tribe. And I think the reason why people hear this and they don't do it is because there's some deep-seated fear about alienating other people, about being judged, about not being liked. And, you know, I don't think it matters what side of the spectrum you're on. I believe that everybody fosters this kind of sense of insecurity around How are we going to be perceived in the world?

I think it's really important to just shift the focus away from us and shift the focus into what's the kind of business you really want to build and who are the customers and clients you really want to have. I think the reason why people get so afraid is it gets so focused on what are people going to think of me, what are people going to judge me about, what are people going to say about me, and that means all the focus is on you as the individual. I believe I believe very strongly that if you're going to be successful in business today, people need to sense and feel and know without a question of a doubt that your business is about them. It's about serving and supporting them. And if you make that shift from like me, me, me to you and the people that we're serving and the tribe that we're leading, I think it gives you permission to really go after the tribe that you want to speak to and, you know, kind of repulse or repel the tribe that maybe isn't the kind of people that are the ones that are going to judge you. Does that make sense?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. That's exactly what Dan teaches. You are absolutely spot on. What is the difference between, and you make an important distinction, between the difference between a tribe and a niche?

Well, so here's the thing, and this is probably going to piss some people off, but I guess that's the word of the day.

The word of the day, everybody.

Yeah, I think that what happened—

it's kind of like Sesame Street had a word of the day.

Yeah, it's a little bit different. I would be like Elmo. So, okay, I, I think that what happens in business is people get so focused on how do I make money that they start looking for these like little, you know, places, these little like dark corners that they can like feed themselves into. And, and as a result of this little corner that they try to paint themselves into, literally all your focus becomes on how do I capitalize and monetize on this little place. And I think that the— look, I'm all for making money, you know, I mean my business makes millions of dollars. And I believe again that today in this day and age, the way that you make money is by people feeling that you sincerely and genuinely want to help them. And so I've found, my experience has found that when people are so focused on this niche What's my niche? What's my niche?

There's no—

you've almost dehumanized the process. And when you dehumanize the process, again, I believe very clearly that people sincerely and genuinely can feel when you're not invested in them, leading them in their success. And this is not, you know, I wouldn't call this hypey new age stuff because we convert. The business purpose of this dialogue is that the conversion rates that we get are literally sometimes 5, 10, 20 times 3 times higher than what other people get in our same industry. And I believe it's very clearly for this reason that some of the ways that we approach things really connect more deeply to the people that we are serving. And so the niche idea, I found it's very much like you almost stop considering the people that you are leading, the people that you are serving, the problems that they have, and you start focusing on this almost like miscellaneous, extraneous idea of this is where I could focus my time and attention. Then it's still all about you and it's all about how you're going to capitalize on this niche. I believe, and my experience has shown, that not only is that not as effective in terms of making money, but it also disconnects you from a deeper why. For me, I believe that every person in business and everybody that's doing this, no matter what business you're in, in order for it to stay to where it feels meaningful and purposeful, in order for it to carry a certain weight in the world, it's got to be connected to some kind of deeper why. Some reason why you're doing it, even if that making money is to provide for your family, I still, you know, people always— one of the big things that people come to me for is they're people that have been, you know, in business for 20, 30, 40 years and they've been very successful, but they've literally just lost the meaning from it. There's no more feeling of excitement or creativity or purpose in it anymore, and I help them oftentimes get back into a place or find a new place where they can find that meaning. So this all ties back into me, the difference between between a niche and a tribe. I think if you are focusing on a niche, it's very easy to get so mechanical about it. But if you shift to focusing on the tribe that you are wanting to lead, it then becomes again about the people and the impact and the kind of difference you want to make in the world. And that is one of the greatest ways of infusing this sense of kind of purpose and heightened meaning back into the business again, which then again to bring it back to dollars and cents, very clearly impacts the bottom line.

Well, that's a huge distinction, huge distinction, and beautiful. In a minute, I'm going to ask you about— so how do we go and find our tribe? How do we do that? But first, how does finding your tribe— let's assume that we have found it, and again, I'm going to really grill you on how we find it, but let's assume that we have found it. How does that help you make more money?

How does that help your business to grow? Yeah, well, so the first thing is that— well, let's just take my existing tribe for a moment. So I call them Big Vision Entrepreneurs and that consists of primarily, you know, coaches and service providers and seminar leaders and authors and speakers. And, you know, they are the people that primarily have a message or a service that they believe will help other people. So here is this tribe of people and if you get down to the the thing that they're looking for the most. You know, what is it that they're really wanting? They're wanting to be recognized.

You know, they're wanting people to acknowledge that they have something of value to give the world. They're wanting to make money in a way that feels in alignment and integrity with them.

And they're wanting to collaborate and do it with other people. You know, they're very much into this idea of partnership and connection. So why did I share all that? Why is that? Well, because by knowing those core desires of this tribe, by knowing that those are the people that I'm speaking to and leading, there's a bunch of great things I can do. One is every piece of content I create can be customized to address their personal needs and problems. Every program I create can be absolutely matched and aligned with what it is they're looking for. So like, you know, the reason we've been able to grow so fast is I have We have a program called Sold Out Seminar Secrets teaching people how to fill up their live events and make 6 figures in a weekend. Perfect for all the people that inside of their hearts want to create live events. We have a program called the Affiliate Tribe. It's for people that want to learn how to attract joint venture partners to them very quickly and make sure that they maximize that opportunity. Why?

Because they want partnership, right?

We have a program called 7 Figure Foundation which is teaching people how to achieve a higher and deeper level of presence so that when they are interacting expressing themselves and communicating in their business, people really feel the sincerity of where they come from, right? I mean, the list goes on, but the point is that all of my programs, all of my language and communication marketing now has literally been customized to meet the needs and solve the problems of this tribe. And when you do that and you speak to them really sincerely and genuinely, then not only is the solution you are presenting a perfect fit, but they feel a deep, deep, deep sense of trust. And to me, I believe that's one of the biggest challenges we have with the internet today is that there is so much crap and so much hype and so much lack of trust on the internet that people, you know, they will still buy, but they get burned and then their trust goes down. And so by speaking directly to your tribe, They feel the sincerity of what you are doing and ultimately then as a result of that, that just translates to much, much, much hungrier, more repetitious, and more willing buyers. So that's how speaking to your tribe has been such a useful component of building not only my business but the business of my students because it just— more trust, more willingness to invest, more customization of programs and products to meet the needs, and that's higher level of client satisfaction. Leads to deeper levels of referrals. I mean, on all levels, it really supports you in building your business.

Okay, let's get into the nitty-gritty details now about how do we determine this, how do we find our tribe. So what are some of the steps that we can take to do that?

Well, so first let me distinguish because I'm pretty sure that you guys have a full spectrum of members here. It's not just people who are in the information marketing space, right? I mean, there's brick-and-mortar and product businesses and all sorts of stuff in this club, correct? Correct, absolutely. Yeah, so I'm going to broaden the, if you will, the way of finding your tribe a little bit to see if we can kind of support everybody even though I typically wouldn't be doing this for my own people, but that's, you know, in an effort to serving this group. We'll see what we can do there. I'm sure actually Dan probably mentioned these things in different language, but to me, the first component of finding your tribe is really defining who are you, because your tribe is going to be the people that are going to resonate with your values. They're going to resonate with your personal approach to business, and they're going to resonate with the kind of reasons why you have started your business.

The first step of finding your tribe is always about really defining who it is that you are, who is it that you want to be seen as in the world. And that can be about politics, that can be about lifestyle. Like for me, again, a lot of people that come to me, they do resonate with the lifestyle that I have. It also has to do just with language. I'm willing to bet that using words like alignment and consciousness and that kind of thing are not words that even Dan Kennedy's tribe would ever use or think about, but I use them very consciously knowing that the tribe that I'm speaking to will resonate with those words. And so it's also kind of digesting what are the words that would communicate to your tribe that you understand them and know them, that you like to use as well. So lifestyle, personal values, political affinity. Let's see what else would be good ones about finding around yourself. Yeah, and I guess the why, the deeper purpose behind why you're doing what it is what it is that you're doing. I mean, I would say if you can define that about yourself, that's a very important first step of finding your tribe because I believe and I found that your tribe are people that are just like you, they're just one step behind in some area. You know, I mean, even if that's— if you're selling suits, you know, there are people that want to look really high class and high caliber so that they can show up in certain capacities. I mean, that's another thing. It's like what would be the purpose of what it is that you're doing.

For yourself.

I'm sure that if you had a suit business, you probably started it because you're like, "Geez, I want to go to these high-end business functions and all the suits that I can find look like— so in order for me to do that, this is how I would want to look." And you start a business off that. So defining what's the purpose for you, I believe, is the first step because then that will allow you to start to clarify who is the tribe that you most specifically want to serve. And to me, That comes down to a few criteria. Probably most importantly, it comes down to what it is that the problems you're solving for that tribe that you've already solved for yourself. I believe, and I think we all believe, business— there's really one reason for business. It's we're here to solve problems. And so I think you have to define the very, very specific problems that your tribe is facing. And that alone is actually a very, very important tool. Like, for example, I used to talk about how I thought that meditation could help everybody. But the problem is that a stressed-out entrepreneur versus a mom with 3 kids versus a teenager, they all have very different problems. There is a very different set of problems that they are experiencing.. And so if you try to, you know, basically say that this thing I do is going to be useful for all different people, you are never going to be able to strike that deep perfect chord. And so I think the next step is really defining based upon the group of people you are thinking you are going to be serving, what are those problems? What are the specific core individual problems that I have? And, you know, an example of a specific problem just so we can really drill this point home is, you know, people in my world always say like, I want to help people be healthier, or I want to help people lose weight. And even losing weight is not a specific thing. It would be like, you know, the issue would be like, I want to help them lose 12 pounds so they can fit their fat ass in those skinny jeans, you know. All right, I want to, I want to make sure that the moment somebody wakes up in the morning, they can jump out of bed rather than feeling like you need to down 4 cups of coffee, right? Those are the specific circumstances, the specific challenges that people are facing. And by doing, by really defining what are the specific circumstances of problem that your business is solving, that inherently will allow you to really start to limit the tribe and focus on the tribe that you're really speaking to.

You want to add anything before I keep going? Yeah, well, I want to ask you, okay, so, So let's take, for example, when I was a professional magician. All right? So I truly resonated with those folks. I was one of them. That's who I was. That's how I defined myself. So that was my tribe. The issue was that the tribe didn't meet all of the criteria necessary for building a business of the size that I wanted to. So how do you answer that question? The guy says, "Okay, well, yeah, I like this group. I resonate with this group." I, you know, but the group is not big enough, the tribe isn't big enough, or the tribe doesn't have the financial wherewithal to take the business to where I want it to go.

Yeah, well, I think there's, there's lots of different answers for that. You know, the first answer is, is asking the question, what are the right offers? Because I used to think that as well about my tribe. I used to think that, you know, this tribe I'm in, this spiritual business tribe, if you will, doesn't have enough money and they're not willing to invest and that kind of thing until I realized that what it was that they wanted more than products and services was individual customized support.

And so some of my offers that I shifted to were high-end one-on-one stuff.

And I know this because I've watched it happen over and over and over again. People will always buy something when they want it badly enough. And if the reason that they'll want it badly enough is because you clearly showcase the benefit, the transformation, the outcome of what it is you're doing so vividly that they can see it in their minds, and thus the hunger and the desire to want it is so strong, they'll do just about anything to get it. And so the first thing I would say is a lot of times, and I see this a lot, it's a risk. To be willing enough to take that risk and say I'm going to try to do something completely different is shifting the offer and seeing if a different offer, even if it might be counterintuitive to what you would think, will actually satisfy the core desires that they have. And that's again why I think going back to really, really, really specifically what are the problems and really, really specifically what are the core desires they have might invite you to change the offer so that it will get people to spend more money for maybe more personalized attention. So that's one thing I would say. The second thing is you really do have to ask the question though, is this a tribe that is hungry? And that to me is such an important thing. I believe a lot of times we want a tribe to be hungry. So like I imagine you could say that same thing like you would want a tribe of magicians to be hungry. But some of them they just literally don't have the drive, the commitment to success, the level of integrity that they would need to be truly hungry. And I think that that's a real honest conversation not only to have with yourself, but to have with the experiences you've had with that tribe. And if they're not truly, truly hungry, then it isn't a tribe that you can really serve. And the next question that would be, okay, well, based upon my life experiences and based upon what I know, What's the one-degree shift that I can make to find a tribe that truly is hungry? So that could be shifting from, as you've done, magicians into actually doing the corporate parties or something because you know that that's a hungry desire, a hungry demand that they have that you know you'd have to fulfill. And then maybe the business model shifts from trying to, let's say, serve magicians or something to creating an entire business where you become the go-to sponsor of corporate parties around the world and you have magicians coming under you to work for you or something like that, you know. So I would say that that's part of it, is you've got to be really, really honest about how hungry the tribe is, and based upon that, that'll determine whether or not it really is the right or wrong tribe for you to serve.

Great answer, great answer. Okay, what happens if somebody's— somebody's listening to this, Max, and they go, God, I get this, right? Dan has talked about I've been talking about this forever. Max is talking about it in a different way. It's clear to me that I need to find this tribe. What if I don't feel like I have a tribe? What if I don't, you know, I like to do all this kind of stuff, but I can't really define who it is.

What would you say to that person? The one thing I would say, to be confrontational, is that you're not listening clearly enough. And you're likely getting in your own way. I found that when, you know, we have the dialogue we're having today, If you're willing to get out of the skepticism or the doubt or the, you know, I need this to be different than what they're saying conversation, everybody can find their tribe pretty quickly. It's literally just that oftentimes people put up their own resistance to hearing this information, and as a result of that, they're unwilling to decide. That's the main thing that I've heard around people not being able to so-called find their tribe is it's literally a lack of decision. So that's the first thing I would say to confront you about your unwillingness to put aside your own BS and make a decision. That said, the second part of that is that sometimes you pick a tribe and it's not the right one. And that's again a willingness to just be honest with yourself and look at, is this tribe really getting results for me in my business? Do I perceive them as, on a scale of 1 to 10, like a 9 or a 10 or even maybe an 8 on the hunger level? Do I perceive them as people that I actually really want to work with? Are these people that are willing to kind of get out of their comfort zone and make some bigger strides to move things forward? And, you know, is this a group that really I can see expanding and growing? Like, is there more and more people there? And if it's not, which has happened to me too, I mean, I've changed tribes a few times. I mean, I used to be—

the progression of my tribe was I started out with this idea of everyone, and that's when you were like, dude, you're not focusing on anybody. And I shifted then to what I would call the kind of spiritual tribe who wanted to be starting a business. That was kind of the tribe that I shifted to with your focus. And then that evolved. I realized that that I wanted to play with higher-level people as I got better and better at what I was doing. So I shifted into people who were, for lack of a better way of saying it, in business but not doing very well. And that was an evolution of a tribe which also did good. I mean, it wasn't— that was a solid tribe. But today, at this day and age, the primary tribe that comes to me is people that are very well established in business and they know what their craft is and they're good at it. But they are not making nearly as much money as they would like to and they would like to go to a 7-figure mark. Or there are people that would like to do a massive launch or put on a massive event. The people that are doing bigger things, that's the predominant tribe that comes to me today which is different than the first 3 tribes. And so part of it is sometimes we've been speaking to a tribe or we haven't been speaking to a tribe and we are unwilling to shift away from it. I believe that finding your tribe is also a progression.

You keep getting higher and higher levels and you keep going further and further, but it does start with the decision. It starts with the decision to focus on a specific group of people and speak to a specific group of people and to be willing to try it on.

You can usually tell pretty quickly if you are speaking to the wrong tribe.

Why?

They don't get results. They don't buy. They don't follow you.

They don't respond.

That's a sign that you're either not speaking to a specific tribe clearly enough or the tribe you're speaking to is not the right one. And that's just a matter of being honest and having a good coach to kick your ass a little bit and move you forward.

Yeah, that's such a beautiful answer actually and really, really cuts through everything and answers that question so well. Let me ask you this. So basically, just to sum up what you just said, a lot of it has to do with, you know, Tony Robbins has got his Ultimate Success Formula, and part of it is, you know, take action, notice what you're— if what you're doing is working, and if it's not working, be flexible enough to change your approach. And that's what you've done. So it's a progression. So I don't think people— sometimes you can hit a home run out of the park, but usually that's not how it works, is it? You've got to start Start, make a decision, see if it's working, be flexible to change and keep adjusting until you hit the mark, until you find the ideal tribe, which you have obviously done for yourself.

Yeah. I mean, I think that's just the nature of business too.

I mean, I was meeting with a venture capitalist the other day because I'm raising money for another project I'm involved in.

He said, "Do you know how many companies stick to their business plan that they actually raise the funds for?" I was like, "I don't know." I was like, "What, 50%?" And he's like, "Less than 5% of companies that raise money actually end up sticking with the business plan that they raised the money for." I thought that was a really interesting statistic to hear that, you know, even when you get sophisticated investors on board and people that are willing to put their funds behind your plan, that, you know, 5 out of 100 actually end up even sticking to that same plan. I think that's just the nature of business, you know, and you've got to be flexible enough to kind of bend and move with the things that aren't working.

Yeah, it's interesting that you say that, Max, because one of the other interviews I did with Barbara Corcoran from the show Shark Tank, which every entrepreneur should be watching, you know, I asked her, I, you know, I asked her about business plans and all of that kind of stuff, and believe it or not, she doesn't even believe in them. She says, what I do is I make a decision, I go out and I take action, I see if it's working, because every time I put together a business plan, I would never follow it because things would change. So it's just very interesting that you said that. Let me ask you one final question here. Can someone have multiple tribes, more than one, be speaking to more than one audience?

Talk about that a little bit. Definitely. I mean, definitely.

It more shows up when you think about different products.

As the progression of our businesses happen, we have different products that speak to different tribes. Now, they tend to fall in a similar kind of genre, meaning they all have a core set of values, but they are in different places in the progress, the evolution of their business. And so I think that comes down to, yes, the tribes can be in the same business to be honest, tribes will probably be fairly similar. They'll just be different subsets of that tribe. Now, you know, do I think I could speak to moms and entrepreneurs at the same time? No. No, right. Unless they're mom entrepreneurs, I guess, you know. But I do believe that in terms of your communication strategy, the tribe has to be fairly similar. But, you know, on our list, we still have— we have We have people who are not, who are wanting to start a business. We have people who have just started a business. We have people who are doing okay. And then we have people that are making 7 figures or multi-7 figures. And those are all different tribes with different problems and different desires. So what we've done is we just created literally different programs and different offerings that will serve the individual segments of our tribe at different times.

Beautiful.

Beautiful.

Well, Max, I want to thank you so much for joining me. It was really great.

I really appreciate it. Thank you for listening to the Magnetic Marketing Podcast with Dan Kennedy. If you love hearing in on these lost Dan Kennedy talks and speeches and calls, then please let someone else know about this podcast. That's how you can help it to grow, and the more it grows, the more free Dan Kennedy we can bring to you. Also, Dan would love to give you the most incredible free gift ever designed to to help you make maximum money in minimum time. This free gift comes with almost $20,000 in pure money-making information for free, just for saying maybe. You can get this gift from Dan right now at NoBSLetter.com. Not only do you get the $20,000 gift, you're also gonna get a subscription to 2 marketing newsletters that will be hand-delivered by the mailman to your mailbox each and every month, one from Dan Kennedy and one from me, Russell Brunson. To get this gift and your subscription, go to NoBSLetter.com right now.