The Key to Consistent Online Success with Omar Eltakrori

So good, so good, so good.

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Hey everyone, this is Russell Brunson. Welcome back to the Marketing Secrets Podcast. I hope you guys are doing awesome today. I'm really excited. I got a really cool episode for you guys today I think you're really gonna like. As you guys know, a couple weeks ago I flew out and I went and visited Ryan Panetta and Andy Elliott, and visiting their offices, kinda see their setup, and while I was there recorded some podcasts that you guys have had a chance to hear already on the show. And while I was there I met this really cool dude named Omar, and he was like, hey, before you head out, do you have a chance to do a podcast with me? And luckily we had time, had a really cool conversation about becoming an expert and finding your voice and like your calling and what you're trying to do and then how to craft a sales presentation to get people to move and to change and a whole bunch of other really cool things. It was really fun, really fun interview that I enjoyed. It's been blowing up on his channel and I thought I'd throw it here for you guys as well to make sure you have a chance to listen in on this conversation 'cause I think there's a lot of really cool, powerful things that you guys could benefit from for everything that we talked about and yeah, so with that said, I hope you enjoy this episode. Called How to Sell Your Knowledge and Make More Money Online in 2024. In the last decade, I went from being a startup entrepreneur to selling over $1 billion of my own products and services online. This show is going to show you how to start, grow, and scale a business online. My name is Russell Brunson, and welcome to the Marketing Secrets Podcast.

In today's department, it's the expert department. You are someone who believes you're really good at what you do, but yet you feel either underpaid or maybe unknown. Nobody knows that you're the best at what you do. I have with me Russell Brunson, bestselling author of Expert Secrets, 9-figure entrepreneur, and the expert of experts.

Big mistake people make is they're trying to be like, hey, this is who I am, like, I can help you. Like, they don't care about you. Like, eventually they will, but at first they don't. They just care about themselves. And so it's understanding like, who am I creating this for? Like, who's my dream customer? Who's my avatar? What do you wish you would've known a year ago? You know now, like, that's what you start sharing.

Everybody I know, they're like, bro, if you just commit a year to a weekly webinar, it'll change your life.

If you do a webinar a week, every week for a year, by the time the year's up, you'll never have financial worries again.

What are some best practices to get people to the next step?

If you ever watch any of my webinars, they're very structured. I don't deviate. In fact, my script I teach is called the Perfect Webinar because it's perfect. So the basic gist is—

Honestly, this is so cool. I've only had my podcast for like 6 months. It has done really well beyond what I could have imagined. But what it's— who's it— it's allowed me to be able to interview and stuff. And so I'm grateful. Shout out to Ryan Pineda, by the way, who connected us. And we had a really cool day, learned a lot from you. Yeah, it was a lot of fun today. And might sound weird for me to tell you this, but I love your mind.

Oh, thank you.

You know, just the way you process and think and you're genius. And I think there's so much that you can— we can talk about. I feel like a lot of the times I think about the audience of my podcast and a lot of them are just starting out their side hustle people and, and they're learning the game on like building their personal brand, you know, the funnels and all these things. And so I'm excited to get into this conversation and just want to say I'm honored, honestly.

Thank you. I love this kind of stuff. It's been a long time. I haven't done podcasts for a couple of years, so this is kind of fun getting back in and sharing some ideas. So I'm excited for this.

Yeah. Well, why would you I mean, it's funny because I heard you earlier that like, yeah, you just kind of burnt out from creating some. So like, you made a move. Yeah, it made you a lot of money and probably— what, did you get comfortable or you just— was there—

no, it was— I launched my third book and I had never hit New York Times bestseller list. I wanted to, so I was like, okay, I'm gonna kill myself for this one. And so when the book launched, I did hundreds of podcast interviews and radio spots, and it was just like— it was during COVID so we're already doing Zoom anyway all the time. It was just like I got so burned out of that. I was like, I'm going to take a break. And then I just never untook the break till literally today was my first podcast back. This is my second. So just kind of, just, just kind of fun. And, you know, we're in a new phase in our company where we're focusing again on growth and some new ideas, new things we're doing. So it's like, okay, this is fun to kind of reshare with people and get back out into the world and tell everybody hi if I haven't seen you for a couple of years.

So that's so cool. Yeah. I would ask someone like you who would have so much of their money, you know, situation taken care of that, yet you see the value in creating content. What is the value you see beyond the financial ROI, or do you see that long-term brand building play?

So everyone has different motivations, and I'm big in personality profiling. So if you take the DiSC profile, there's another one called Motivators, and it shows you what your what your top motivators are. My number one motivation based on this test is ROI. And the first time I thought it meant ROI, like I have to get a return on my investment. And I was kind of confused. Like, I understand I love business and stuff, but it wasn't that big a deal to me. But one of my coaches who's really good at reading these tests, she's like, no, you have to understand, like what ROI means is like you want a good return on investment in every situation. She's like, that's why you struggled in school. You couldn't see the ROI. That's why some conversations you hide from, other ones you love. It's like if you see the ROI, you love the thing. And so for me, my business is all about that. Like, the reason why I'm still doing what I'm doing is because, like, I love, I love putting stuff out there. Like the books I've written, I'm so proud of them because they've sold so many copies. But like the ROI of like the book is huge for me, right? And so for me, it's like the reason why we create content is because we have this moment which will be cool for the next hour or so, whatever, and then it'll be done, but then it'll go online and it'll be there and it'll live for a while and like, but it'll like that moment will live on for for a year, 10 years, you know, I could be dead in 20 years. I'm going to be watching this like I'm coming from the grave, like, what's up, everybody? You know, like, we don't know. And so it's just— it's— excuse me, it's one of those things where it's— I think creating content is one of the best ROIs of your time because it's not just the moment, right? Like you do sales call, it's great, but then it's over. You do the live event, it's great, then it's over. Like putting out content consistently, just the ROI of that, like it extends your life.

Yeah, I believe there's like— there's, there's not too many activities that multiply yourself like that. Yeah. You know, but that's really cool. And I think, you know, something I kind of want to bring back to most people that listen and watch, you know, are good at what they do, or at least they believe so. And that's why they're selling something. But you wrote a series of books on if you're good at this thing or whatever it is you are. How did you know yourself that you were an expert in what you did?

Yeah, it's one of those things that it's hard when we decide we want to become an expert. I don't know if you decide it, but it's like, it's hard because the thing that we're really good at is like a superpower to us, right? It seems common sense. Like, this is—

it's like the curse of expert is what people call it.

Yeah, for sure. So for me, like, I had started my business while I was in college. I was building these funnels and like, I assumed that everyone else knew what I knew. Like, I saw the people building funnels, like, oh, we all know the same thing. And so I didn't think much about it for the first 10 years. And then about 10 years in, I always wanted to write a book. So I'm going to write a book someday. So I was like, I'm going to write a book on funnels because I That's what I was excited about. So my very first book is called Dotcom Secrets. And I remember I wrote it and I remember I was done. I was like, this is like all common sense stuff. Like, what if nobody likes this book, you know? And so I remember printing it and it's, it's interesting that they say with writers, like, you know, writing is this, is this like private process. You're by yourself in your own mind, your own ideas, and it's very private. And then the book is very public, so you're putting out to the world. And I remember getting the first copy of the book back and I was like, so excited. But then I was so scared to like, to show anybody. And one of my friends, I don't know if you know Rich Sheffron, but he's one of the most voracious readers I know. Like, he does a YouTube video showing how he reads like 20 books a day. And he is— he's crazy. And I remember I sent him a copy and I was so scared because I was like, this dude has read every book. Like, I was like, had so much anxiety. In fact, I almost didn't send it to him. And then I finally sent it to him. And I remember he messaged me back like 3 or 4 days later and he's like, dude, this was a really good book. I was like, oh my gosh. And then I was like, and I had a couple other friends and people started messaging me back and I was like, I was like, and they started asking me questions. And these people I thought knew what I knew because like we're all doing something similar. Like I had no idea about this and that and all this stuff. And I was like, oh my gosh, like I had no idea that I had something of value until I was willing to put it out there. And then it came back and other people were like, oh, this is, this is new. And I think that's a lot of times we assume that our superpower, everybody has it, you know? And the reality is like, like even like your angle, the way you look at something is different. And like when you're willing to share it, there's always somebody else you can help with it. You know what I mean? And there's always people who are like, who are— I think a lot of people struggle because it's like, well, I'm not here yet. Like, when I get here, then I'll share. But the reality is there could be 10 years, 100. I may never get there, right? But if I start producing, start sharing stuff today, like, there's people who, like, I'm a year ahead on the journey or 6 months ahead on the journey. Like, you can help those people today. There's no reason to wait till you're at this level before you start helping people. Like, help people today because you've accomplished something. You're here today, right? Like, there's something that I think that's the biggest thing is understanding that and being like, oh, there's people that, that I can help today. One question people ask me before is like, like, who am I? Who am I creating this for? Like, who's my dream customer? Who's my avatar? Whatever. I was like, usually it's you. Like 5 years ago, you 3 years ago, you a year ago. Like thinking back about them, like, what do you wish you would have known a year ago? You know, now, like, that's what you start sharing and that's the people that are where you were at are the ones who start following you.

Yeah, that's really good. Yeah, I've been doing video for like I think over 15 years. And in so many capacities from the agency flow to the, you know, the teaching. And now I've been coaching and, and it baffles my mind a lot of times, like the most elementary things that I know is just mind-blowing to a lot of people.

Yeah. If you show me a video like, I don't even know how to edit anything. Like, I remember I saw my video, like, thing open all the different tracks and stuff. I was like, that looks so scary. And like, oh, it's simple. You see that? I'm like, that's amazing. I have no idea how you do that.

And I'm grateful. I had no idea, obviously. That the world would come to a place where video would be such a, you know, a skill that I think most business owners should kind of grasp at some level, at a basic level. That's really cool. When you say you're saying funnel, can you just define really quickly what a funnel is? And then when, when, when were you exposed to funnels?

Yeah. So I got, I got exposed back actually in college. One of my very first products ever was was a DVD teaching people how to make potato guns, which is a weird thing. That was my very first thing I ever created myself. I was trying to sell it online and initially I didn't know how to. I'd seen websites, so I put up a website, you know, like everyone else has and had all these things on it. And I started like buying Google ads and nobody bought off it. And I was like, this isn't working.

How did you know to make something? How did you know to teach something that young?

I was, you know, I was in college, but I was studying this stuff. I was looking at people who have success. And there's a guy, he's still at Frank Kern's. You may know him, but Frank had a, had a course back in the called The Underachiever Method, and it was like how to make money being an underachiever. And he would show how he's like, you know, you find, you find online that people are searching for something. So it could be like how to teach your parrot how to talk. And then you go and you hire somebody to write a book about how to teach a parrot how to talk, and then you put it together and you sell it. So I was like, okay. So I was like, I know how to make potato guns. And so my buddy and I, I remember I did the research and back then I think there was a site, it was called Overture. For those who've been around for 20 years, it's not around anymore. But you would type in a keyword and show you how many people each month were searching for that. I remember I still remember I was in college, I was like, I typed it in and there was 18,000 people a month searching for how to make potato gun. I was like, I can sell those people something. And so I remember my buddy who we had made potato guns before, I called him, I was like, hey, I have an idea. We're going to make a DVD, teach people how to make potato guns. He's like, why would you do that? I'm like, I don't know. I think people are going to buy it on the internet. He's like, you're so weird. I was like, but we had nothing else to do. It's like, all right. So we went, we borrowed a little one of those hand camcorders from somebody, one of the people lived on our street. And then we drove to Home Depot and clicked record and it's like, all right, We're here at Home Depot and we're going to buy a pipe. And we showed the pipes to buy. And then we bought the glue and bought the barbecue igniter, bought all the pieces. And then we went back to— my wife had a job at the shop, so we went to the shop and got permission from the owner, went back there and we filmed us like cutting the pipes and gluing them together and then did the whole thing. And then we snuck into the college. It was on a Saturday. We snuck into college and we found a room that the door was still open. It had a whiteboard. So we snuck in there. We filmed us on a whiteboard, like, like we'd found all like the mathematical formulas, how you cut a pipe, like, you know, the barrel to chamber volume ratio needs to be this. And so we're acting like we're scientists, like writing on the whiteboard, like we're so smart. Art teaching it, you know, just the dumbest thing. So we filmed the whole thing and then got done. We figured out how to burn it on a DVD and we burned like 10 of them. And then I put up the website and, and that was kind of how it all started, was that very first thing. And again, at first I was selling like a normal website and nobody was really buying. And then I went back to what Frank was doing. I looked at the way he was selling. It was different. It was just, it was like a, just a simple page. Like first page, like, had you land on, it's like, give me your email address in exchange for a free tip on whatever. So I had, give me an email address, I'll give you a free tip on how to make a potato gun. And I put an email address in. The next page is like, hey, I just emailed you a tip. I got this DVD that's got like 20 ways to make potato guns. If you want to buy a copy, it's $27. There's a link down below and there'd be an order button. And that was kind of how it started. So I started doing that and I started buying Google ads and overnight sales started coming in. Like 18,000 people searching potato guns. Every once in a while, one of them saw my ad, they click on it and they buy my potato gun DVD. I was like, this is the greatest thing in the world. And it worked for a little while. I remember because my wife and I just got married. It was cool because like every day we make, you know, 1 or 2 sales, make $20 or $30. And I had to give— I had to pay Google for the ads. Maybe I'd spend $5 on Google ads, but I'd make, you know, $20 or something. So we got to dinner and like we'd do different. And like, I remember feeling like I was just, you know, like I've arrived, like I'm making money, I don't have a job. And then back then, then Google changed their algorithm. I was like, 3 or 4 weeks into this thing where I thought I was the smartest person in the world and Google changed how they were charging things. And all of a sudden overnight it went from I was spending $5 a day in ads. I was spending like $100 a day in ads. And we stopped making money. Like, we spent $100 to make $20. And like the whole thing after 2 or 3 days, I'm like, God, I turned it all off. I was like, oh, like, dang it. Like, the whole thing fell apart. And that's when I called one of my friends who was kind of doing a similar business. And he told me, he's like, we were talking about this. He said, same thing happened to me. He's like, I had an idea. He's like, I created an upsell. I'm like, what's an upsell? He's like, you know, when you go to McDonald's and You know, you order a Big Mac and they ask you if you want fries and a Coke. I'm like, yeah. He's like, that's an upsell. He's like, most of McDonald's, most of their profit comes from the upsell. He's like, go back to your DVD. And he's like, you just need an upsell. When someone buys a potato gun DVD, what's the next thing they need? And I was like, I don't even know what would they need? And he's like, well, after they buy it, what do they have to do? I'm like, we have to go to Home Depot and buy potato guns and buy the kits. You know, he's like, you should sell a potato gun kit. And I was like, okay. And I didn't really want to make kits for people, but I started Googling and I found a company actually so strange in Idaho that made potato gun kits. So I called them up. We set up a partnership. And it was like $200 for potato gun kit. And so I made my very first upsell. So I'm going to buy the DVD. Next page, they buy potato gun kit for $200. I think I paid them like $30 for it. I got to keep the rest of it. So I made that upsell in there. I turned the ads back on and the ads still cost me like $100 to sell a DVD. But then like a third of them bought the upsell and I got— and all of a sudden it became profitable. I was like, this is the greatest thing. That was like my first funnel ever. And I did potato guns, but I was like, This would work in other businesses besides this, right? And so I started telling people the story, what I was doing. And I met— I remember I met the world's fastest reader, Howard Berg, and I was like, we could do this with your business. And so he taught a course on how to speed read. Then we made an upsell. I put it all together and we launched it and it started making money. And then I met someone that was doing couponing. I'm like, I can turn that into a business. And so they're like, would the cut coupons— did you ever see the Extreme Couponing TV show? She was on one of those shows. So she was like, she'd buy like $100 in groceries for like $0.06 or something. So I was like, that's a business. So we'd like— I record her teaching what she was doing. We made a little funnel and we sold that. And then I started going niche after niche. Like, I found this really ugly guy who was really good at picking up girls, apparently. And he's like, I get— I was like, that we could sell that. So I made a video of him, like, teaching how he was getting girls. We sold that to a market. So it's just like every person I ran into who was good at anything, I'm like, there's a business there. So we started filming them, putting them up, and that's kind of how I got started in this business, was just doing that.

It was so much fun. So, I mean, I, I think I, I listened to that and I'm like, that's so ahead of the time that, like, you took something that was in somebody's brain that was natural to them. It's like, let's get this on video and create something and then selling something that also, you know, the physical aspect was cool that you had that as the upsell. But for the most part, you were selling something that didn't require any fulfillment.

Yeah. Moving forward, we stopped doing CDs. It was just like the login to member— and it was a member site for the member site. We had like a password-protected page and everyone had the same password because we didn't know how to do it anyway, any other ways. They log in and then all the videos were in there and We'd host them on YouTube because that's the only place you could host videos back then. But we'd, we'd make them private and then embed them on our page. It was just people just watching YouTube videos they pay us for. And it was so cool.

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So you got right into like paid advertising and then, you know, I'm a big organic guy. I just never tapped into it. I never actually ran an ad. I've gotten all this way just slow, like the slow build, you know? Yeah. What I mean, how would you advise people as far as like their approach now, like where we're at now, like paid ad versus organic approach?

And yeah, it's, it's— there's pros and cons both ways, right? Like paid ads are nice. You flip a switch and traffic starts coming, but you got to pay for it. And I always tell people, you got to pay one way. You're paying with money, you're paying with time. And so when people have more money than time, like paid ads are the best way to start. But if you have more time than money, then organic's the best way. And I think realistically it's great to do both because, you know, as you know, organic takes a little while to take off, but eventually over time it becomes this huge snowball. It could be bigger and way better, you know, right? Versus paid, it's like, you know, as soon as you stop paying ads, it stops. Like it just, it's on and off, but there's, it doesn't build over time. And so the hybrid is best is doing both. That's the best of both worlds. But I think for someone just beginning, organic's the best way to start for sure, because it gives you a chance to, to practice and become good, you know, like you know, I don't know about your very first podcast, but it probably wasn't as good as the last one you did, right?

Like, yeah.

And a lot of times it's funny because people get so nervous, like, oh, no one's going to hear who I am. I'm like, that's usually good at first. Like, no, it's usually pretty bad. It's like, do one, do another one. And like, in fact, I remember my, my first podcast I launched was called Marketing Your Car. And I would like, when I was driving around, I would just record it in my car because that was my studio.

Sound treated. It's great, great dynamics, room dynamics.

Yeah. And I remember because I, the way I set up, I'm not very technical, so I didn't know if I know how to check downloads or stats. I'd have no idea. So I was doing it. I had no idea people were listening. And I'm grateful I didn't because it took like 2 years where we found out. I logged in and it was like people had been watching, but for a long time no one was even listening. And I had one of my— Steve Larson, who came to intern for me, now he's got a really big company. But he told me, he's like, when I got into your world, he's like, I listened to your podcast. He's like, the first like 35, 40 episodes, they were really, really bad. But by like 42, 43, you started like getting into it and then it became really, really good. I was like, I am so grateful that I had no idea. That nobody was listening, I would have stopped after 10. Yeah. The fact I had no idea, like I went to 45 and then I learned how to speak and like and carry on conversation and, you know, and so I think a lot of people get scared because like, no one's watching. It's like, that's good because you're really bad right now. So just keep doing it. And what's interesting is that the longer you do it, the more likely your audience is to find you, right? Like people wait, like they, they want to see who's going to, who's going to endure long enough to actually get noticed. Yeah. And that's how the universe, the algorithms, whatever it is, like they, they reward you by doing it consistently over time. So it's just going into it knowing that I'm really bad, no one's watching. That's a good thing and start doing it. And by the time you get good enough that people watch you, that's when they will start showing up.

What's your favorite kind of content to consume?

To consume? Oh man, I am a big audio podcaster. That's probably my number one. I'm getting more into YouTube because we're becoming YouTubers now, so I'm trying to understand it. But my default is still audio. Like, I work really hard and I'm working, so I never do stuff. And then when I'm off and I'm working out or running or driving, like, that's when I consume most everything.

So I haven't done like a lot of paid ad conversations, so it's cool if we can go there. Yeah. So when you do a paid ad, there is usually like what they call like cold, like you're maybe seeing somebody or somebody seeing you for the very first time. Yeah. So, you know, in all the various people that you've helped with paid ads and, you know, doing cold, I guess, you know, marketing, what are some best practices to get people to the next step?

Yeah, the key is how can you warm up quickly because it's expensive if you don't, right? And so what I found initially is like the— like when someone sees an ad originally, initially, like it's not about you as the person, about them as the consumer, right? So usually it's like I'm focusing on like, what's the hook that's going to get someone to stop? It's very much about them and like the problem they're trying to solve before they even know who I am. Like, they don't care who I am, right? Big mistake people make is they're trying to be like, hey, this is who I am. Like, I can help you. Like, they don't care about you. Like, and eventually they will, but at first they don't. They just care about themselves. And so it's understanding like That's what the ad's going to be. So you look at when you swipe through Instagram or TikTok, whatever, like you start noticing which ads are talking about them versus which ads are speaking to me. That's the first thing. So I'm looking at that. Then from there they're going to click on it and then they're going to go land on a funnel. Like that's the first page. And so there's a million types of funnels you can do. But the one that I found that like they get somebody from like a cold prospect to like buying something the fastest, we warm them up. My favorite is the webinar because they register for the webinar. It's going to— it's promising to solve some problem or something for them, right? They register for it. And then that this event happens could be right away, it could be the next day, whatever they register register. And then when they show up, you've got anywhere from, you know, an hour to 90 minutes, 2 hours to like to teach them, to talk to them and communicate. And like you have this really intimate time to like build a bond with them where they're going from, I know who you were yesterday, I had a problem, I clicked on this thing, now I'm here. And like if you do it correctly, you build a connection with them, they get to know you. And in, you know, 90 minutes from then you can sell them a course, you know, because they've built that connection. So that's for me the fastest way because you got to make your money back on paid ads quickly. Otherwise, you know, you can go broke really quickly. So it's like, how do I build that relationship and that connection the fastest? And for me, the webinar is the fastest way to do it. So if you notice, most of my front ends in most of my companies now are all pushing to some type of webinar.

And like, I'm working on a webinar. Yeah. And there's some— a part of me is like, man, this is like old stuff. But, but everybody I know, they've like committed. Like, they're like, bro, if you just commit a year to a weekly webinar, it'll change your life.

You know, that's the premise of my expert readers book, I told them, like, if you do a webinar a week, every week for a year, by the time the year's up, you'll never have financial worries again. And anyone who I know who's committed to that and actually done it, it's been true. Very few have committed to and do it. Yeah. And it was funny because like I wrote that book after I had done it. When I launched ClickFunnels, that was the model. I was like, I was doing, I was doing 4 or 5 webinars a week for the first almost year. I just kept doing, doing, doing them. And like, and that was like how we grew ClickFunnels. So I wrote that book. I was like, how did you grow ClickFunnels? I was like, you're not going to want to hear it. You're going to think it's a magic trick. It's like, no, I did a webinar every single week because it gives you the ability to learn the audience and learn, you know, get better at the skill. Yeah. The way that I did mine is I do the webinar and at the end of the webinar we sell something, you know, and then I'd export all of the comments from people on the webinar. It was really cool because you see like, oh, minute 13, everyone's asking this question about this thing. You're like, oh, so you go back to your slides and like answer that question, you know, and then you go minute 42 or you find all the spots people get stuck and then you change your presentation and then you go live again the next week. And it was crazy. It's like you resolve people's concerns before they even come up. Like, how does he know that I'm even thinking about this? It's like, oh, because everyone has this, you know? And I kept doing that for a year. Every time I do the webinar, export the comments, tweak the slides. I kept doing that, doing that to the point where, you know, I could give you my webinar verbatim off the top of my head right now. I've done it so many times and I would resolve every single concern as they come up because I just know what they are like. They're all going to, you know, and it's like that's really the key of mastery is you do that. And that way when someone shows up, there's like, I feel like he's speaking to me every problem I have, he's responding to it before I even get there. Like, yeah, because I know you, I know who you are, I know how to serve you. Like, trust me. And then you can take them on the rest of the journey.

Is there another word? I mean, is maybe, maybe I feel that way I feel because like the word webinar.

I know, I hate the word too.

It's almost like, like we were talking about pitching and it's like even the word pitching is getting like, I don't know, it's funny how words just over time get— I think a lot of people just start adding their own definitions.

For sure.

You would say like a webinar is essentially a presentation.

Yeah, it's a— my world, it's a 90-minute presentation, 60 minutes of teaching, 30 minutes of making an offer.

Yeah. Can you like kind of walk through like—

for sure. Yeah, yeah. I'm— if you ever watch any of my webinars, they're very structured. I don't deviate. In fact, my script I teach is called The Perfect Webinar because it's perfect. So the basic gist is every webinar you want to— you're focusing the entire presentation. This is a mistake most people make is they try to like solve 10 things in a webinar, right? And that's not the goal. The goal is like, what's the one big domino that you have to help that person with? Like there's just one. Right. And then, and then everything else in the presentation is just trying to knock down that one domino from different angles, different directions. Right. So for me, it's like, okay, someone's coming to my world. Let's say it's weight loss. You want to lose weight, you come to my webinar. And so my very first thing is I'm going to tell you, like, I'm going to introduce myself.

For me, I use podcasting as a form of coaching too.

Okay. Okay. Give me the offer.

Yeah. I want to, I want to help people build their personal brands.

Okay. Yeah. Cool. So you want to build personal brands. Tell me really quickly, like, backstory, how you got into this.

So I got into this because I, you know, I, you know, I guess we can go as far back as when I first saw Gary Vee, you know, an entrepreneur who started documenting his life and created an audience. And when he had the opportunity to sell something like his book, people jumped on it like crazy, bought a ton of stuff. And then over time, I see people becoming essentially the Gary Vee of their industry or the Gary Vee of their expertise. And if you could find your way of becoming the authority, the trusted resource and face and person that you wouldn't have a hard time, you know, selling things because. Yeah. So and so we're living in a world where I believe if you build your personal brand, you can create wealth quickly. And in my— and so I like, I think I was creating YouTube videos or like tutorial-based videos. It wasn't really building my like personal brand, but I took it serious, like in 2021, 2022, I was like, I'm going to I'm going to post videos of my— of me for on Instagram sharing like insights. And they're going to be videos of me where I'm not even creating. I'm not looking into the camera. I'll just have a camera rolling if I'm doing a coach call or whatever. And over time, like, people just follow me. I didn't ask for anything. And then I said, hey, I'm going to do this beta program. And 50 people signed up at $2,000 and I made $100,000 in a day or so, you know? And that was all because of brand. Yeah. And so I've been helping a lot of people kind of dial in what that looks like for them. But I just feel like it's one of the most important things you should be building right now.

Yeah. Okay. First off, you know, the first 15 minutes webinar, the first 15 minutes is like you get them on, you get excited, you tell them what the promise is going to be, and then you get somebody's credibility and then you transition to your origin story about how you discovered the framework you can teach them. That's why you have the whole origin story, right? You tell the origin story. And the mistake people make is they think the origin story is about like their origin story. Like, like, you know, I was 12 years old. It's like the origin story, how you discovered this, the framework, right? And so you just did it perfectly. You did the whole thing. The thing I would add, though, add in more the mistakes you made along the way. Like, I tried this, it didn't work. I tried this, it didn't work. I tried, you know, like things you tried that didn't work until you discovered like, this is the way I'm going to do it, right? And then at the end of it, it's like, and I discovered this is the framework I discovered and for you, I would give it like a proprietary name. Like for me, like I call my framework in the ClickFunnels world, it's called funnel hacking. This is the funnel hacking framework that we teach people. This is what I discovered. So you make a proprietary name for the framework you discover.

What would you call it? I do have like a— it's a— maybe it's not a proprietary name, but I teach from a quadrant that I came up with. It's called the content quadrant.

Okay.

For building your brand. Very cool. And it's a square because it's a quadrant. And like the top left is the messaging and the mindset. The next one is the, the method and the makeover. It's how you're going to choose to show up and how it's going to look and all those things. Then the third is the money. How does this all make sense, you know, financially? And then the fourth is multiply. It's like, okay, I tackled the YouTube giant. Now it's time to do the next thing, you know?

So, okay. By the way, you're doing webinar perfect. So after you introduce, tell the origin story, discover the framework, then you transition to— I break it down to 3 secrets. Be called 3 Strategies, 3, whatever. So the first thing you're going to talk about is basically the framework. So you just did that perfectly. So like, here's the framework. And I would say, okay, secret number 1, I'm going to teach you guys my— what do you call it? The Content Quadrant framework. And you just teach it like you did. Step number 1 is this. Step number 2 is this. And so you walk through and you teach the thing. This is going to be a 15-minute teaching. Like the time is 15 minutes. The key when you're teaching is you're going to— like for each thing you teach in the webinar, First thing you teach is like how you discovered it. Second thing you teach, the strategy behind it. Third thing is you are not going to teach the tactics. This is where everyone makes a mistake. Tactics are the thing they're buying from you at the end of the webinar. So you skip the tactics. And then number 4 is you can share a result that either you or a client got. That's it. So there's 4 things: how you learned or you earned it, teach the strategy, do not teach the tactics. Webinar bomb if you teach tactics. And he teaches a success story about someone doing it. So that's the thing. So you just thought you just did it perfectly. Yeah. The strategy's like, step number 1 is this, step number 2 is this, step number 3, step number 4, and then share a success story. So for example, I showed Julie over here and like I told her the whole framework. She did it and she did this, this, this, and you show the results like, oh, and they freak out and they see the result. And so that's that first 15-minute block. So you had a 15-minute teaching story, 15-minute, or sorry, 15 minutes telling your backstory. 15 minutes teaching the actual framework, and now you're halfway to them giving you money. You ready for the rest of it? Okay. Okay. So next thing, now they see that, they saw that your framework and they're like, oh my gosh, that's really, really cool. Like, I can see how that framework would help me get the result I'm trying to get, right? But then what happens instinctively inside of humans' minds is our brains, like, our brains are fascinating. They can do anything, but also brain activity is very high calorically dense. Like, it takes a lot of calories for you to think and to figure things out. So your brain's like, that's really cool, but if I do that, it's gonna cost a lot of work. So it's trying to look at any way to like escape from the thing, right? And so you see people when you're selling from stage or a webinar, you see like they get excited, then they're like, ah, like they have this weird, like, I get it. Like I think this would work, but like, ah, it's their brain's trying to find an outlet. So the first outlet they always instinctively go to is like, that's really, really cool, but I don't know if I could do it. I'm not as cool as you. I don't have video skills as you. I'm not as, you know, I can't talk like, you know, they, it's always like an internal false belief they have about why they can't. Possibly do it. So the next 15 minutes of the presentation is all shifting that. So it's like you gotta get them to believe it's actually possible for them. So for me, this is typically like a product demo or it's something where I'm showing you how easy it is. So in my ClickFunnels webinar, this is where I teach the funnels initially. People are like, that's amazing. Like, I'm not technical, I can't build a funnel. So then I transition the demo. Let me show you how this works. It's so simple. And I'm like, you open up ClickFunnels and you drag the thing in and you drop it. It's so simple. Like, oh, you see how easy this is? And people are like, I can actually do this. So for you, I would like—

why would you say that wouldn't be tech showing the tactics or whatever?

Because it's not showing. So the tactics would be if I'm building a funnel, it's like the tactics. Okay, step one, we set the meta tags on the phone. Step two, we're going to do like the menu. This is more like, yeah, like we're going to open the thing. Here's their pages. You click on this, here's how you drag and drop. You see how cool that is? They're seeing like, oh, I could do that. Yeah. So if you had me, I don't know if it's video editing or something, but I'd be showing like, this is how easy it is. Like, I get my iPhone, I film the thing from there. I I clip it out, I use the AI, it chops it all up and then like it's done and I post it on YouTube and that's it. And they're like, I could actually do that, right? So they see that. So all of a sudden it's like, oh, I could do it. So first step, the first secret, the goal is to get them to believe that like the framework will work for them. Second, or the framework is the thing that'll get them the result. Number 2 is that they can actually do it. And then the 3rd thing, then our brain's looking for one more outlet. It's like, that would work, but I can't because of this. And it's usually pointing to some external thing. So in my world, it's always like, you know, I get them to believe that funnel is like the best thing that'll grow their company. They believe they could do— they could build the funnel, but I don't know how to drive traffic. In the weight loss market, it's usually like, I believe that this diet would work for me. I believe I could actually do the diet, but my spouse always has junk food in the house. My kids have cookies. Like, I can't do it because they— your brain's trying to blame somebody else. So you got to figure out like, what's the thing they're going to blame next? And so it could be money. It could be like, what do you think your dream customer, what would you be blaming externally why they don't think they could implement it?

Yeah, I mean, I would say they're not that, they're not the person that we're always talking about. Yeah. They're not the Alexes, then they're home, you know, they're not the Ryan Panetta. They're just like, I'm just Joe Schmo. Yeah.

Yeah. Cool. So that's when the third thing, which is the last 15 minutes of the hour, is transition that. So you got to show them like, okay, let me show you how this works for anybody. And now I'm going to show—

which I got people who have who are like very ordinary people that have created incredible brands online with their, you know, with video and stuff. And, and as I've been working out my web class, I see all the elements that I have to do that.

But okay, so you then show somebody that can do it, or if I show it and I show them the process like this is how they did it, like I showed you how to do it. This is what they did. They followed the steps. They did step 1, step 2, step 3. They posted this. They got— this is the result. And all of a sudden it's like, oh my gosh, first off, I believe that this framework he's sharing with me is the one that's going to work. I know I can actually do it. There's nothing externally keeping me from it. So that's the hour, the first hour of the webinar is that. And if I can get them to go through that, there's like, oh my gosh, like this could actually work for me. I actually believe this. And then when I transition from the hour to my— I call it the stack and the close. The first thing I do is ask permission. I'm like, did you guys get some value from this? Like, yeah, this is amazing. And then I come back. I'm like, look, obviously in an hour I can't show you everything. I should walk you through the strategy, but I don't have time to dive into tactics where I'm going to show you You have to sit in my house the next 3 days. I could show you how to edit the videos, how to do things and the right ways to do it, but we don't have time. But what I like to know is like, would you, like, I put together something that you could actually take this home with you and that way over the next 2 or 3 weeks you could have videos from me showing you exactly how to do this. Are you cool if I spend, make 10 minutes going through a special offer that'll help you to actually implement everything I talked about today? And if I'm at an event, I ask them, raise their hand. If they don't raise their hand, I'm like, okay, I'm good. I already know stuff, I can leave. They're like, no, no, no. I'm like, okay, who here wants me is willing to give me 10 minutes to show you how, you know, how I can give you the things to help you implement it. And you see everyone's hands go up on a webinar. Same thing. Like I ask permission. I wait till I see the yeses coming in. If they don't say yes, like, if he doesn't want this, I don't like— it doesn't matter to me. I already know how to do this. I wait for them and as soon as they get yes, they say yes, yes, yes. Then everyone gives me permission to sell. I do not sell till they give me permission. When I used to not do that way, I would go to an event and I would transition to sell. And you see people popping up and walking out angry. It's like, oh, he's just trying to sell me something. And so I make sure that hour is like, is complete. They got value.

I've been told that like some people are doing that on the front end now.

Which part of that?

Like just at the very beginning, like, hey, you know, before we get into this, you know, I am committed that in this next 90 minutes that I have with you, that you're going to get so much information, it's going to blow your mind. And I want to, you know, I think, I think the phraseology is like, I want to make a commitment that if you get something like you just say it up front, that if you get something so valuable out of this, something you've never maybe even learned before and something you could take home and implement immediately, that you will give me the opportunity to share how we can work together. Yeah, it's cool. I've done it with a few. I've done 3 webinars in my life right now, and usually they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I don't know if that's just because they know me from online, you know, like maybe they already love me in that regard. So I would imagine. I don't know.

Yeah, I've never tested that, but I can see how it could work.

So yeah, but okay, so you get the permission to sell. Yeah.

And then next 30 minutes I make a— I present the offer. So I present the offer is create what I call an offer stack. I learned this from Armand Moran, who's the guy who kind of invented this and brilliant stage presenter. But basically he told me, he's like, if you go to someone, you're like, hey, if you sign up now, I'm going to give you this and I'll give you this bonus and you share a whole bunch of stuff. He's like, human mind only remembers the last thing it was told. So if you give them like 10 different things and the last thing you give them is like bonus 12, and then you're like, and I'm going to charge you $1,000, like they're likening bonus 12 to $1,000. They're trying to justify that. And she's like, ah. And so sales are usually flat. So the stack that Armin had invented, it's amazing. But basically, as you talk about the offer, like first thing you're going to get is this. You talk about it, you show pictures, you show testimonials, you talk about it. And you— and then you go to like what I call stack slide, right? Okay. So what that means you're going to get is number— this thing right here, that component number 1, and the value of that is this. And you show the value and then you go to the second. Now here's the second thing you're getting. You explain that, talk about it, show the bonuses, and you come back to the stack slide and says, so what that means is you're going to get number 1 I talked about earlier, this and this. Now the value is this. And you go through the third part of the offer and you come back to stack slide. You get this, this, and this. And so you keep doing that and you're stacking it. And the very last slide, you're like, here's— you go through every single thing they're going to get. And then you introduce the price. So they're seeing like, here's everything and they like the price of the whole offer and they're like, oh my gosh, this is insane. Like it's such a dumb little nuance thing. But when I use the stack, I make a lot of money. When I don't, it always bombs. And so like after bombing like 2 or 3 times in a row, I swore to myself, this is a decade and a half ago, I was like, I will never pitch again when I don't use the stack. And I haven't. And it's just, it's the great, it's the best thing in the world. So that's how I introduced the offer. And then we offered the product to him and And that's kind of the basic structure of the webinar.

That's really— that's so helpful. I mean, you breaking it down into like essentially 4 parts in the first hour and then the last part is just that stack. There's, there's some information out there that like it's hard to sell more than like a, like $3,000 offer on a web class. What have you tested? Like a max amount?

Just people aren't good. So I have a certification, $10,000 certification I sell off a webinar, a 90-minute webinar, and it works. So, but I do have a lot of friends who, if it goes above even $2,000, $3,000, they'll do a webinar, but they'll push to a phone call or to something to sell a higher ticket. I think that's a crutch a lot of people use. I just, we've never successfully had a sales team for a long time. Like, in fact, I was telling you earlier that we fired our team again last night. So, you know, for the most part, I try to get really good at selling from a webinar and You know, it's probably not as efficient as like a one-on-one sales phone call, but I can have 100 people or 1,000 people at once versus 100 phone, you know, like, right. So like, I'm sure we lose a couple people we would have got on a phone call, but same time, like, I can do more faster, more consistent, more often. So, um, yeah, I mean, anything's possible. It's just, it's just believe in it.

What has been your process in, in getting better at the skill of sales?

Yeah, um, initially, so I first got in this game, this back 20 years ago, I went to my very first event and I saw a speaker do this, speak from stage and sell. And I was just like, this is insane. I saw the whole thing. The guy made a bunch of money and I was like counting the people in the back of the room. I'm like, you know, freaking out about the whole how much money the guy made. I saw speaker after— it was back in the day, 20 years ago, these multi-speaker events where every speaker was selling something, you know? So I'd watch 10 people sell on the weekend. I was like, this is insane. And I remember watching that. I was like, I have to learn the skill set. So I hired some coaches who were doing that. So I kind of learned it. And then I would just go to a lot of events. And so a lot of times I speak event, but I would show up day one and I'd watch all the other speakers to see how they were doing it. And it was just fun because everyone had their own little nuances. Like Armin had the stack, you know, Joel Bowers, one who did— who asked permission before he introduced the close. I'm like, that's a great idea. Like, I would just watch everyone's thing and I take notes like, oh, that's cool, that's cool. And I go back to my slides, I add it, and then I would try— usually the first one or two times I try, like, I would mess it up, right? You know, I'd look stupid. But I was like, they did it so cool. So I'd like watch them again until I could perfect it. And I got better at that. And so I spent 10 years on the road at events going city to city doing these kind of things. And it was interesting because back then, you know, some events I show up to, there'd be 500 people, which was for me was amazing. Sometimes I show up and there's like 8 people there and like half of them were speakers. And so I just sit in a room and, you know, I would watch the speakers. I talk to speakers, we share notes and like, oh, I saw so-and-so do this, so-and-so do this. And it was just kind of a cool era of my life where we're just learning and practicing. And then when the recession hit 2008, events dried up and they were just gone forever. There were no more events. And so I was like, oh, well, this is a dead skill set. I guess it's not useful. And then by the time people were doing teleseminars, so we do these calls on the phone, and then a couple of years later, transition to webinars. So GoToWebinar came out and eventually Zoom came out. And so we started doing these webinars on Zoom, same stage presentation, but we did them on Zoom and it worked as well, if not better. And what's crazy is most of the people who were all these speakers I knew back in the day, like when the recession hit, they all retired and they quit. And so it's crazy when events came back and I started doing webinars, I was the only one doing webinars. Like, I just used my old pitch. I started from there and I started innovating and no one else was doing them. And I was just like, this is crazy. Like, this is like the easiest thing in the world. Everyone's like, how did you learn how to do that? I'm like, like 50 different people I learned from. And so the Expert Secrets book was like literally the book of like me showing everything like slide by slide, what I do, how I do it, how I position it. But it's just all these amazing people I learned from back in the early 2000s who were some of the greatest stage presenters in the world. There's a guy named Ted Thomas. They used to call him the Pied Piper of selling. And in fact, there's videos online. If you Google him, you can— or YouTube, you can see like he'd have this line of people behind him and they'd all have their credit cards in hand. And then he's like walking to the back of the room and like, it was crazy. Like, we're watching videos of him. And one day I'm speaking at an event, I look out and I see him in the audience. I was like, oh my gosh, like, I know that guy. And I was so scared. And he sat there watching my presentation and then he got done. And, you know, after I got done, he invited me to lunch. And I remember we were talking and he was asking a bunch of questions. I was kind of nodding while talking to him and not knowing anything. And then he stops talking. He's like, "Look at your head right now." And I'm like, "What?" He's like, "Look at your head." And I'm like, "Oh." He's like, "You're nodding." I'm like, "Yeah." He's like, "Do you know how I did that?" I'm like, "No." He's like, "It's a thing I do called trial closes." He's like, "The thing you're missing in your presentation." He's like, "I sat in the back to watch." He's like, "Everyone loved— they were engaged in your presentation, but nobody's heads moved the whole time. They're all just sitting there." He's like, when you watch me speak from back, if you sit in the backstage, the heads in the room, like, it's like waves of the sea just move. He's like, the way I did it, he's like, I just asked questions. He called them trial closes. He's like, I asked trial closes every time. Instead of just like telling something, I share something. I'm like, are you guys getting this? Does that make sense? You see how this could work for you? Like, what would you do if that was you? And he just asked these questions to get people thinking and nodding their heads. And so I remember he told me that. And then I had an auto webinar at the time that was doing really well. I think we were averaging $9. If I remember the stats, it was like $9.50 for everyone who registered for this webinar. And after hearing him talk, I went back to my— to— went back home and my brother was editing my webinars and we rewatched the entire thing. And I just recorded me doing these little trial closes, like 500 of them, and I had my brothers edit them into the audio. So the webinar didn't change other than me just dropping these little trial closes. So every time you have a testimonial, he'd follow up like 5 or 6 trial closes. Like, oh, can you imagine yourself? Is that amazing? Like, just getting those little yeses. So I record those. We rented out the webinar, re-uploaded it and split test that one versus the original. Went from like $9. I wrote a whole report on this. I remember the numbers like $9.50 per registrant to $16.50 per registrant, just adding in trial closes. Wow. And so it's like all those little things I learned over a decade of me speaking from all these amazing people that I just started weaving into everything I do. And I've trained all my people now. Like, these are all the things I learned. Here's where I learned them from. And And it's just made selling— it's just been fun, you know? And it's been fun now because now a lot of people are doing it. So everyone's kind of innovating. I'm still learning from people.

Like, yeah, I know, I know. I feel like I'm on like a— I'm at like 20 months, 18 months of just being cognizant that this is a skill I wanted to get good in. And it is crazy because I'm learning a lot from Myron, you know, and just how, you know, it's persuasion. And I remember I was on a call and, you know, I was like, this is crazy. You know, we did a podcast together and somebody was so convinced at our conversation that they called and wanted to maybe join the mastermind from our conversation. And he's like, Omar, can I coach you? I was like, okay. He's like, we didn't convince them. We persuaded them. And I was like, you know, he's like, the difference is convincing people is getting somebody, somebody to do something that to for just my benefit. And then persuading is getting somebody out of their own way to do something that's beneficial for them and also beneficial for me. And from that point on, I was like, dang, this is a whole nother way of thinking about it because it— because when you get it, when you see it from that point of view, then you see— you start seeing that selling and getting good at it is actually serving. Yeah, it's made me a better listener. And because I'm better at listening, I'm better at speaking. And because I'm better at speaking now, I'm connecting better to people that I'm trying to help. You know, and, and I'm just so fascinated at like the, the different dynamics and, and how you can go about doing it. I do have a like a gnarly question because I think there are people that, that do, can abuse the skill for sure, and maybe do go into the manipulation knowing that it is a few, um, things that they could start doing. Um, I don't know, like how, how do you— I think, uh, I think the question is how do you maybe check yourself to make sure that you're not just marketing and selling just for marketing and selling sake.

For sure. Yeah, it's— I, first off, I agree. I see that a lot in our world, in our industry. I see speakers who— I've seen— anyway, yeah, I've seen people who cry on stage and they come off afterwards laughing about it and stuff. I'm just like, this is like— so there's a lot of manipulation that, that bothers me a lot. For me, it's like, I look at I look at my business probably different than some people. Like, some people are like, this is what I sell, this is what I do. For me, it's like my business is— I feel like it's a calling. Like, I believe it's calling from God. It's like I've been called to serve a specific group of people, right? And so for me, it's their entrepreneurs. Like, and it's not all entrepreneurs, like these certain type of entrepreneurs. Like, that's who I've been called to serve. So my job is to come in like, how do I, how do I serve them? How do I help them? How do I help them get out of their own way? How do I break their false beliefs? Like, if you look at the entire goal of the webinar presentation, it's not so much like teach them a million things as much as to break the false beliefs, the things that are holding them back. Right. And so, and so for me, it's like, like my goal is not to serve these people once. Like I've been in business, I've been in this business now for over, I don't know, my 22nd year.

Yeah.

And in 20 years, the number of people who are coming, who started where I started, like, yeah, insane. And so for me, it's come back to like, like this customer I'm serving is— I'm going to be serving him another 20 years from now. Like, and if you're burning people and churning people, like, you may make money in the short term, but they're not still around, you know what I mean? And I can, I could tell you names of hundreds of people, you know, I've seen come and go because they're so focused on the product, the sales, the money versus like, who is the person I've been called to serve? And so for me, and I'm not perfect, I made mistakes along the way for sure, but I try to always think back like, is this going to help them? If so, like, how can I— like, what do I need to do? How do I help them? How do I guide them? How do I like help make sure that like they can take this step because I know like, I don't know, I'm such a big believer in human potential. Like I see people, I'm like, I, like, I believe, like, I think for most times when people join my coaching programs, I've had this conversation like, I believe in what they do more than they do. I'm like, I know you can change people's lives. I had Stacy and Paul Martino came in my world and they help people with relationships and they have like, I think the national average is like 60% divorce rate or something crazy. And they're like, in their program, they have a 1% divorce rate. And like they came to my world. I'm like, I believe in what you do so much. Like, I like, you know, you're capable of like, you need to tell everybody like, like, and it was like training them on how to sell, how to do these kind of things. Because I'm like, if you— if this is what you have is actually true. And I believe it was. I went to— I actually signed up for their programs. I went through. It was great for my wife and I. I'm like, these things are actually true. And they are like, you have this moral obligation to figure out how to do this because God gives you a gift and you don't go figure out how to serve people with it. Like, like that's not a good steward of an idea or a gift, right? So it's like, I think he wants us to develop these skill sets. And there's always people use it for bad and that sucks. And I hate that people get burned because of that. And I can only focus on my own self. But for everyone, it's just like if you want to do— it's like looking at business through that lens of the customer you've been called to serve. How do I serve those people? Like, that's, that's when my business changed for me. It's like everything, because then it's like, how do I— what do I need to create for these people? Like, how do I make this process simpler? Like, my books all came from me trying to teach my dream client stuff and they're all confused. I'm like, how do I simplify this? How do I simplify it? So eventually became a bunch of doodles and all my books are just doodles. I'm like, here's the doodles. Like, like, oh, this makes sense. Like, oh, okay, cool. Like ClickFunnels came about like, how do I make this simpler for our customers? I ran events for 5 years teaching funnels. People would come and I show them, they understood the strategy of funnels. I'm like, okay, now you go and you hire some of the Philippines or India or Romania to build a funnel for you. That's what I was doing. And they, nobody could figure out that step of it. I'm like, ah, how do I make this simpler? And that's when we had the idea, like build software that makes it easy. And then boom, ClickFunnels was born. My events, my coaching, everything's like looking back at my dream customer, like how to make this simpler for them. And I think about it that way, then the ideas start flowing. I guess people miss is they're like, why do I want to create this product? Like, no, no, no, it's about them. How do you serve them? And all the answers will come.

Yeah, that's, that's really good. And I, yeah, I think that's a lot of it is just you've outlasted, which has proven the foundation that you stand on.

Yeah.

How would you encourage somebody who what, like, how did you arrive to, like, the assurance of knowing that, that these are the people that I'm called to serve? Because everybody wants to serve everybody. Yeah, but there's something powerful about knowing who you're supposed to serve.

Yeah, I don't think I knew for a long time. And I actually had a really good coach who was the first person to point out to me, because I was like, in my mind, like, there's, there's business and there's like the spiritual side of my life. And I was on this coaching call with me and she's like, you don't see it, do you? I'm like, what? She's like, You don't see how these things are like, like how they're interacting. Like, I'm teaching people how to make money. How does that help? She's like, when you teach people how to make money, they can stop stressing about other things. They can serve people. They can do like— she like, help me understand, like how what I was doing was like changing their lives and lives of people. They were— and I also, it clicked in my head and I was like, oh my gosh, this is crazy. And then the next phase comes with that. Then it gets tough because like you said, you want to serve everybody or people come to your world and they leave and they're angry. It's like, it's like, how do you deal with that? And I remember I was actually reading the New Testament. Jesus Christ said something. He said, He's talking about his people. He's like, my sheep will hear my voice and they will be one fold with one shepherd.

And from a stranger they will depart.

Yeah. Yeah. I thought about that. I was like, Christ is saying that about him. Like, you look at like Christ and Christianity, it's like, so like there's people who are all in and people are not. And that's okay, right? And I think it's the same thing with us. Like, you put your message out there and your sheep will hear your voice. They'll come to you. And like, some people aren't. Some people are going to hate you. You go to Google and type my name in and go down 2 or 3 pages. A lot of people hate me, right?. But for my people, I've changed their life. Like they, like they're my sheep. That's who I'm going to call to serve. And so it's more so like believing that and then putting your stuff out there, just like just putting it out there and your sheep will hear your voice, your people will hear your voice. They're going to come to you. That's just the law of nature is how it works, right? Yeah. And just understanding that, being okay with it. Like I have people all the time who want me to do all these other businesses, other things. I'm like, those are all amazing things, but those are your things. It's not my thing. They want me to come and like invest in their startup or they want me to do their charity. I'm like, like, that's your calling, it's not mine. My calling is this, and this is who I've been called to serve. And that's your— like, go do it. Like, you have my permission, go and do it, you know? Um, but it's just focusing on the people you've been called to. And if you do that, it feels like, at least in my experience, like all the other things kind of line up.

That's fire.

That's amazing.

I love it. Um, you, you've made— so it's like, it's a cool pattern, like knowing that you're called to a specific, uh, to serve a specific individual, and then And I would say God honoring that by you just walking in it. And as a result, and this might not be everybody's, you know, maybe story, but you've made a lot of money. And we, I don't know, spent hours just jamming and, you know, just hearing your mind and all that stuff. And you have such a drive to still do more. I don't know. I would say like it's convicting because like something in my mind says like I have this point where maybe I'll get and then maybe I'll pull back. Like how I guess the question is what makes you like really keep going and not get too comfortable?

Yeah, I think a couple of things. Number one, I really like it. So that's part of like I enjoy it, I enjoy the people, I enjoy the process. Number two is like I thought about this a lot because again, I believe in calling and it says in scriptures, many are called, but few are chosen. It's like, why? Like, you know, and I believe everyone's called. I think everyone's called to serve people. Most people never do. It's like, why are they not? And I was thinking about this a little while ago. I was like, you ever had that experience where like you have an idea and, but then you see someone else has, does something that you're like, oh, I had that idea too. I'm like, oh, frustrated. And I was like, my thought, my guess, I don't know, I might be wrong, but I feel like God gives everyone these like ideas. He's like, I'm going to give you an idea. I'm going to see what you're going to do with it. So for me, I look back when I first started this business, like potato gun, let's just see what he's going to do with that. And he's like, I'm going to give you an idea. I'm going to see if he's going to be a good steward of that idea. He gives it to me and it's like, oh, Russell did like it was a potato guy, stupid, who cares? But like, he was a good steward of an idea. I'm going to give him a better one. Here's a new idea. And then they check in and is he going to be a good steward of this idea or is he not? And if I am, then he's going to give me another one and another one. I think about this because I was in this business for a decade before the idea for ClickFunnels came out, right? And if I got the idea day one, first off, I wouldn't have been able to handle it. I wouldn't have known. But it was like, it was like each thing led to the next, the next, the next, and it increased my capacity, right? Like like I got better because of the thing. And then God's like, oh, he's a good steward of ideas. Let me give another one, give another one. And so like, I felt that in my path for the last 20 years doing this game. And for me, like, ideas keep coming and I like, I don't want to— like, I want to be a good steward of the ideas that are coming to me. And so I feel that's part of it for me as well. It's just like, I don't want to be the guy who's like, I'm done. Like, no more ideas, please. Like, stop them coming. Like, because then what does that say about me? You know what I mean? Like, I want to be someone who's a good steward of the things that come to me. So they keep coming to me because I love them. So that's been kind of my thought. Again, I might maybe, maybe wrong, but in my head that's how it works. And so I just kind of look at that. I'm like, okay, bring me the idea. I'm going to execute on it, do it and hope for the best and see what happens next.

No, I felt that. I felt like before I went off and started like the whole video department thing, I— because I served a lot of other people's businesses, companies and organizations, and I felt like it was time and I kept kind of putting it off. And then that was— that's where I felt like convicted because at one thing, at one point it was kind of just like, it's a good idea. Like it's okay. Everything's taken care of. And then it got to a point where I started feeling like if I don't do this, I will feel like a bad steward and I can't live with that, you know? And so I think that's— there's just good— like to have the security knowing that you're called to do a thing and then that's why you can be in it. For so long, you know? And that's what's— that's the one thing that we can't— no guru can teach somebody how to do. It's just like something you just have to arrive to here. So what— when— just on like on a personal standpoint, like, so what's your like, like, in choice of investing your finances that you're making above and beyond your living to, I don't know, maybe generate an inheritance for your kids' kids and Yeah. Like, what's your choice of investment?

So I paid off all my houses because that's, you know, people are like, don't do that, stupid. But for me, I just want the security of knowing that if I do some gamble, that stupid bank is still in my house, you know? So that was the first thing. And then we invest a lot in experiences for our family. You know, we do really cool things with the kids. And then for me, it's like, I'm— I don't know, I'm not— I'm not like a traditional investor by any stretch of the imagination. Like, for me, it's like like I invest in old books. That's my thing. I've spent in the last 3 or 4 years probably $15 million in old books and manuscripts and things like that. And I'm building a museum and a library and event center to create experiences for people because there's some really cool things I've discovered and found. And so that's where I invest most of my money. And it'll turn into like what I'm creating will turn to a business that will keep paying for itself. But I'm trying to create something that's that's bigger than just me. You know, I look at some of these authors I collect, like some of the greatest minds of all time, and most people never heard of their names. You've heard— people heard of like Napoleon Hill and some of the bigger names, but there's always amazing people who— some of the greatest minds ever. They wrote books, they put these things out, and then within a generation they were there. They're gone, right? So for me, I'm trying to figure out how can I take— how can I figure out how to, like, take these people's legacies when they created— I want to extend. I want to, like, bring them back to life and, like, like, and, and so that's my, my whole core, wow, thing I'm doing right now is that partially because I want to like get these messages out and like extend their life. But also it's like, I want to, again, I come back to ROI, like what's the ROI of my life? Like, I want to make sure that when I die that I'm able to look at like, man, like what I did didn't just end when I died. Like, I want just to live forever. So I'm trying to figure out a process and a business to extend the lives of my favorite authors for forever. And then by doing that, I'm hoping to be able to take my legacy, my books and my stuff I've been creating to have it also be able to live forever. So that's like the weird thing that I invest my time and money into.

But it's really just like on eBay every day.

Every day. I love eBay. I have a lot of people I've met up through eBay who are scouring, you know, garage sales, bookstores, like everything for the things I'm looking for. But that's super cool. Yeah, it's really cool. Like, side note, we just put an offer on a 60,000 square foot movie theater that we're going to be turning into an event center museum for all this stuff. And we'll be doing events, bringing people in to like, come see, like, here's— I spent $1.5 million on a pre-first edition manuscript Napoleon Hill wrote before he wrote Laws of Success. And like, some people come and see these things and then I can tell them, then they'll care about Napoleon Hill and like what he did. And like, you know, so it's like, it's going to be cool. It's the first ever, like, personal development museum on the planet with all the coolest archives.

Anyway, so And that's going to be in Boise, Idaho. Yeah, that's super cool. Yeah, dude, that's so— I mean, just inspiring to hear all the things and, and you kind of left your CEO role to just focus in on— and mistake me if I'm wrong, I just kind of heard somebody that because you love the funnel stuff so much and, and like the strategy that you're like, you're okay to stay in that.

Oh, for sure. Yeah. I'm not a good CEO, not a good operator, but I'm great building funnels. That's why it's funny because like I have this huge company, but I never wanted a company. I just wanted to build funnels and to do my art because funnels is my art. So for me to do my art, everything else had to be created around it. Tony Robbins talked about that. I remember the first time I met him in person and I was like, this is such a cool business. He's like, I'm not a businessman. I'm not an entrepreneur. He's like, this is my art. He's like, I had to figure out all the rest of this so I could do my art. I was like, oh, it's so— I mean, that's how I feel. Like, I'm not a business person, right? My art is funnels and like, like that whole process is my art and like everything else was kind of a byproduct. So yeah, as soon as I was able to like not be the CEO, I stepped away quickly because that's not, that's not my core talent. My talent's the art and that's what I want to focus on.

Dude, that's so good. I just, just a lot of things to consider, think about. And I know a lot of people got a lot of value. Where would people, where would you like people to go and check out your stuff? Like what do you got going on right now?

If you go to RussellBrunson.com, there's links to everything there. You know, come check out my podcast. I've got a marketing podcast. It's fun. I'm about to launch a personal development podcast. We have some really cool stuff happening on YouTube. But yeah, just come plug into any of my— I'm everywhere. So if you look for me, I'm on all the different places.

So, dude, and I would encourage you to check out his— it's the trio of books. Yeah. That everyone I know that has read those books, they're stinking rich. It's just— I don't know.

I mean, go read them all. That's the secret.

Dude, I appreciate you. Thank you for having me on.

Yeah, it's fun, man.