Trust Based Lead Generation

Welcome to the Magnetic Marketing Podcast. We're so excited to have you here today. We get to listen in to Dave D and Matt Zagula talk about trust-based lead generation. Now, Dan Kennedy is famous for building out your marketing so that way you become a welcome guest and not an annoying pest when you come to a customer with your offer. In this episode, we're going to learn about the big mistakes that you can do in lead generation that will entirely kill that opportunity to become a welcome guest, as well as answering questions around how to extend your lead generation period without losing your customers and how to be able to get started even if you aren't as established as Dan Kennedy, all using Matt's ACE formula and so much more from physical packaging and psychic selling, or AKA subliminal messaging. This is going to be an episode that you're going to love.

I don't think there's anybody that has had a bigger impact in the field of direct response than Dan Kennedy.

The legend of Dan Kennedy should be ignored at your own peril.

They're not really lessons, they're kind of laws that you live by.

Dan opened my eyes to what small business marketing looks like. Dan teaches strategic direct response that is timeless. His ripple effect touches people who don't even know his name.

The world as we know it was changed because Dan Kennedy became obsessed with marketing.

Welcome to the Magnetic Marketing Podcast with your host, Dan Kennedy. Hey everybody, this is Dave D., Chief Marketing Officer of GKIC, and welcome to your Gold Members CD titled Trust-Based Marketing and Trust-Based Lead Generation with my very, very special guest and good friend, Matt Zagula. Matt is one of the preeminent financial advisors on the planet. To put this into perspective for you, he is in the little town of Weirton, West Virginia. Again, it's a very, very tiny market, but he's bringing in, check this out, $1 million of income every 90 days. He gets referrals nationwide. People just, as he said, people just send me business over and over and over again. It's because of the principles we're going to discuss. Matt also has worked very, very closely with Dan on a very high-end coaching program. We'll talk a little bit about that, which they started from scratch and brought up, added a ton of members. There's a waiting list and very, very successful.. He is a master of using direct response marketing, but a very special kind of direct response marketing—trust-based marketing—to generate leads, to generate clients, and to generate a bunch of sales. Let me introduce to you my good friend, Matt Zagula.

How are you doing, Matt? Great, Dave. How are you doing today?

I am absolutely fantastic. Do you know why I'm your friend? Because I'm speaking with you. Oh, that's so nice.

Whenever I'm speaking with you. It's funny. When you were saying "Wierton," it was nice that you said that because every time I've ever been on a call with Dan, He calls it Weird Town. And I mean, he knows he's doing it, but he does it purposely to torture me and torment me. But it was nice to hear the actual name of the town. That's the first time I've ever been on one of these calls with GKIC where it was the actual name of the town.

Cool. Thank you. I do think it's significant though because you are in a very small town and you're producing numbers that the folks who are in big cities are envying. And so we're going to talk about exactly how you do that. So let's really get right into it. Let's talk about trust-based first. Define what that is and why it's mission-critical to your success.

Well, I think that trust-based marketing is really understanding the environment that you're in and then working towards gaining like this deeper relationship with the person before they put up their resistance to salesmanship. And the way that we really— scripted this out and Dan and I worked on this for, well, with our Centurion coaching group for the last 2 years. And what we realized is that especially in professional services or in high-dollar potential sales situations, what folks really do is that they lead generate in a compressed period of time, ultimately elongating the sales cycle and then ultimately the relationship ends at the sale. So there's this real short period of trying trying to get the lead in, there's this euphoric excitement because someone has taken your marketing bait and then, oh, you're going to pounce on them now, you know, and then they put up their sales resistance. It becomes very difficult for you to close. There's frustration in that model. And quite frankly, the biggest mistake there is that it ends in the sale. And we've re-engineered that whole process to where we've elongated the lead generation process through a series of, you know, promises that were made starting with the marketing. I mean, print and media, and ultimately delivering on that promise with great speed. And I'll give you an example of that, Dave, is that we actually send everything FedEx. You know, and Dan talks about speed creating trust, and he's right. When you think about the internet today, people want things now. So when you go to the world of physical delivery, you want it to be as fast and as and show up in an impressive way. So there are these series of promises and deliverables delivered promptly and quickly that ultimately there's a series of these things that happen. And then by the time you get to the point where you're sitting down to explain your services, you're an advocate for them. You're not selling. You're literally saying to them, hey, you know, what's your problem? And they're telling you, and you listen to them. And if you can correctly relate to their problem, they're going to ascribe you as the solution to that problem. And then they hire you and it doesn't end then. That's when the leverage begins with the referral building. And really the biggest breakthrough, and of course it wasn't a breakthrough for Dan, but it was for all of us, was that it was that the customer is your media, is your best media. This whole idea of social media is kind of laughable. People trust people. You know, Dave, you and I have been friends. If you told me, hey, I found this great thing, go buy it, I'm going to buy it because you told me and I trust you. So trust-based marketing is really about understanding the intricacies of trust-based lead generation and then just delivering on the promises that you make. And I know it sounds simple, but in today's lackluster world of service, and we're filled with lazy folks that aren't willing to build deliverables and show up that way, it's a rarity.

I've got two questions for you based upon what you just said, Matt. And the first one is this: what about the person listening who says, well, that's not— you're extending the lead generation period, you're, you're not letting them get to you right away, aren't they going to go and do business with someone else if they have an urgent need?

Well, I think your period of lead generation depends on your price point. If your price point is low, then I don't think you can court the love for that long or else you will lose them. But let's take a great example that you know and that maybe perhaps many of the people on this call would know. So you want to go meet with Dan Kennedy, right? So it's as easy as picking up the phone and asking him for an appointment, isn't it, Dave? Laughable, right? So, right, so you think about the torture that you have to go through to get to that private meeting in Dan's basement in Cleveland, right? It's laboriously long. There are scheduling conflicts and faxes, and I mean, it's, it's, it's a fiasco to get there. I wonder what his closing ratio is whenever somebody's coming there for a huge project to build a marketing funnel or to do some copywriting. I imagine it's about everybody. I won't say 100% because I don't know that to be true, but if you look at the cost of even getting into that room, it's what, $18,000, $19,000 just for that initial meeting, and he's not letting you there unless he knows that there's going to be a significant project beyond that. So does it work? I think we have somebody that we all know, somebody that we all learned from, that is living proof that it not only works, but on the high end it works exceptionally well.

Well, let me press that a little bit, Matt. Okay, so Dan has a ton of lead flow coming in, meaning a ton of people who, who want to use his services. So one could argue that he has that positioning An advisor or a dentist or a chiropractor or anyone listening who is just getting started isn't going to have that.

Okay. That's a fair question. I'll say this. Let me ask you this, Dave, because you know Dan really well. Did he get that positioning because of some fancy degree he has or did he get that because of some fancy contest that he ever won? Did he get written about up in marketing and advertising magazines? No. He created that environment that made him truly magnetic in his field. It's so crazy because you look at professional services like our industry. They have basically their hands up saying, "No, this can't work. That's for carpet cleaners and that's for them." Every industry will say it's for those other folks, not us. Interestingly enough, those folks in the other industry are saying the same thing about you. So this works for everyone. It's just taking the time to building yourself up in what you said. It's not prospecting, it's positioning. He's not lead generating through laborious, painful, no fun prospecting. It's positioning and he gets the pole position, the top position of deciding who he's going to let through the door and who he isn't going to let through the door. But that's manufactured. I mean, his is manufactured and it became real just the same way In our industry, I always talk about Suze Orman, who manufactured— who somebody had manufactured her authority and her celebrity. And if she wanted to come out with a retirement planning fund, it would have a billion dollars in it in a month. I mean, she has that pole position like Dan does in our world. So yes, everybody on the call, regardless of profession, can manufacture that level of total domination in their own backyard. I'm certain of it. My backyard is West Virginia, man.

Exactly. Well, you know, Dan talks about even when he didn't have all of the deal flow, even when he wasn't the Dan Kennedy that we know now, he still practiced the principles that you're teaching right now, even when he was starving and he needed the money. He said it was really hard to do, but he could not give in to, "Hey, I'm going to grab that prospect," because it changed everything. The next question I have for you, Matt, is you mentioned that you send things FedEx and people want things instantly. I know the answer, but I think there's probably people who are wondering, well then, why not just deliver it online? Why send the package via FedEx? Why not give them instant access to it online?

I think that's a legit question, and I'm going to give you my answer. My answer is simply this. Number one, I work in an age demographic that values a physical delivered product. And I think that that's a big part of the wealth. If you're selling it all to the affluent, wealth skews older. You know, there aren't a lot of young techie Google executives that are multi-bazillionaires to go after. So in my niche, it is age demo to a point where it just makes sense to send them physical delivery. But on the flip side, I think when everybody Everybody is delivering online. If you want to stand out and escape from the sea of sameness and get to that blue ocean where you seem different instead of the red competitive ocean, everybody is sending things online. Even the best online marketers, the guys that I know well, their opens and their click-throughs, they have massive lists to get— you have to have a massive list to get a reasonable amount of readership. Here, if you send somebody a 'X.' I don't care who you send it to, they're going to open and look at it. That's right.

Yeah, absolutely it answers it. I don't even know if it has to do with— I love your answer. The truth is, I don't think it matters what the age demographic is. I think maybe if you skew younger, you should deliver something online immediately, but still send them something in the mail. First of all, who doesn't like getting things in the mail? There's a whole psychology about that.. That's why people like to get packages. Also, it's got staying power. When you send out your package of books—

I want to talk a little bit about actually what you send out.

You send out your books that you've written and things like that. They hang out. You become more of a celebrity and they're everywhere. They're in the person's bedroom. They're in the bathroom, on the kitchen table, so on and so forth. When somebody gets a downloadable thing, either they don't read it or they delete it immediately. I don't know if it even matters what the age demographic is.

Do you? No, I don't. And to be fair, I think that if I were an online marketer— and I've done some online marketing. I know a little bit about it. But my goal in anything online is to get offline as quickly as possible to get a physical deliverable in their hand. Because most folks are not going to do that. So I prefer, of course, as you know, books. Because people just don't throw books away. You know, it's almost like there's something wrong with you if you do that. I mean, it's a bad act on the person's part to throw away a book. So I love books because they tend to have shelf life and they linger and hang around. And who knows where they're sitting on the person's desk or on their kitchen table for that one day when they get something else in the mail that they don't like about who they're working with now or about their life situation that ultimately makes them look at that book and think, hmm, The answer is in there, you know. So I think there's a— it's certainly a mistake not to incorporate quickly delivered, quickly delivered meaningful and high perceived value items to your prospective clients and quite frankly to your clients so that they keep on replicating themselves and referring people to you.

So can you give us some of an example of some of these things, something that you would send in your shock and awe package and just define what the shock and awe is for the folks who don't know, some of our new members, and what you include when you send out a package initially?

Yeah, I'd be happy to do that. And I think it's important to understand too that I want to, as we go forward, make a differential between what is sent to a consumer and what we do in our wholesale business with— in our training programs because the way we were able to achieve achieve the level of success that you had mentioned on that revenue number is by leveraging what we built for consumers to help other advisors also obtain that success. That's something. That's so Dan Kennedy 101. Once you get the secret sauce, go out and teach it. It's a no-brainer to do, and he's so right. I think about all the years that I thought about it and did nothing about that and how much opportunity loss was there, but it's certainly something to do. When somebody responds to us, it could It could be through a variety of lead generation advertisements. It can be— we do a lot of Fox News Network affinity tie-in advertising where our spokesperson, a lady named Patty, comes on and she said, you know, I've had the privilege of interviewing these two known experts in the area of finance and law and blah, blah, blah, blah. And she goes into the pitch and we have an exclusive offer for the viewers of the Fox News Network. Obviously, we only run those on the Fox News Network. When the folks respond to that ad or they respond to our radio show or anything we put out publicly, the folks will get a FedEx package from us with on the top is a letter from 4-time Super Bowl champion and Vietnam veteran war hero Rocky Bleier. All it's doing is making a testimonial to our book. It's saying, you know, just be brave enough to take action and courageous and that kind of stuff. It's completely modeled after a marketing program that was done for Miracle-Ear that Dan let me look at that he built. So ours has the celebrity testimonial letter on top of the book, which is called Invasion of the Money Snatchers, and a practical guide to protecting your stuff from creditors, predators, and the government gone wild, and our consumer's guide to finding the right advice giver.. So my book is pure content. It is my core values of what I believe about money, about what you need to do to protect yourself in the insane economy from the insane government. And there is not one call to action in that book. Not one. Now, it never is allowed to leave our office without being attached to our consumer's guide to finding the right advice giver, which is our salesman in print, the shock and awe that you mentioned.. And it's a 6-stack different— there's a quiz in there. You know, who trusts First Financial Partners? It's a whole series of brochures where our number and our contact information is blasted all over it. Of course, it comes— it shows up as being a consumer's guide to finding the right advice giver. And then when you open it, I'm the right advice giver is what it's telling you. So that's how we actually show up at the people's house pretty much the very next day after they respond.

Wow.

Let me ask you, why didn't you put a call to action in your main book? Well, the reason— here's my theory. Talk about sparring. Dan was whacking me in the head with books whenever I was saying this. My theory was that when we did the Creating Trust in an Understandably Untrusting World, which was an online lead generation for financial advisors. Advisors to join our coaching programs. It was interesting because it was filled with traditional GKIC-type style, hey, go here, go there, do this, do that, fax here, email there, go to this website. And we were able to literally put a web page up that asked, you know, what licenses you have, what is your address, how much money do you make. I mean, it was the most penetrating, intrusive opt-in box ever, right? Now the video was great, but we were able to get 2,000 people to come to the site. And of those 2,000 and some, 1,700 and some actually filled it out to get the book. But it's different. It was for a different purpose than selling high-dollar, high-value advice. So for me, Dave, when I'm going out and my average client may pay me or have a lifetime value or short-term value of $10,000+ I want them to have basically a transcript of how I would communicate to them in a meeting, a transcript of how I would communicate in a seminar setting so that there is complete consistency in message. And what I don't want to do is put any pitch in there so that they have a moment to increase their sales resistance of me. Again, I'm elongating that. Now if they go to the shock and awe, it's a pitch. I mean, there's no doubt. I've tried to hide it inside of the consumer's guide to finding the right advice giver. But ultimately, I'm trying to compress the period of selling into this period of advocating for them where they're coming in and saying, "After I've read all your stuff and after I've heard you speak and after I've heard you on the radio or seen you on TV," I have a problem. I think you might be able to fix it. What's your problem? Yes, I can. Hire us. And literally it is that process. What's your problem? Okay, yes, I can. Hire us. I'm not giving them the solution. We in essence are the solution because of that elongated lead generation period, that delaying of sale that is designed to build tremendous trust.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we could just keep talking about this one subject here, but I know there's something— there's another point that I want to get to, which is an unbelievable formula that you have. It is— I hope people are taking notes because you're giving out literally million-dollar pieces of advice. But let's talk about your ACE formula because this is very, very powerful. Everyone can utilize this whether they're marketing online, whether they're marketing offline, regardless of what their business is. Talk about the ACE principle. Principle. First of all, what does it stand for?

Well, it's Authority, Celebrity, and Exclusivity. And, you know, it's certainly not my principle. I will tell you, I mean, this is something— and Dan and I have had a lot of conversations about— and I've literally bought everything GKIC, I think, ever sold. I've studied and actually read. I have those packages that are actually opened with markings on all the books, you know. And And it's funny because Dan said, because you always talk about authority, celebrity, and exclusivity, and, you know, because I'm from West Virginia, it's easy to poke fun of me. And he said, well, it's good that you held on to that because obviously you didn't have enough capacity to learn all these other 15 principles or whatnot, right? Which was not nice, by the way.

Not a nice—

but that means he likes you though. Yeah, but man, if picking on you means he likes me, he must really like me. So, um, so, but the truth is, is And I looked at him, it was kind of funny, a little interaction we had. I said, really, it's all you need. And he kind of looked at me funny and he says, yeah, you're right. If you do these, if you do this right, if you amp up your ACE, so to speak, the rest of it falls into place. But it's a lot of work, you know, and what people don't get is that it's a lot of work for a small period of time to benefit for a lifetime. I mean, sure, do you have to change things? Absolutely. Can I improve on them? Absolutely. Do I look and say I wish I did this different or that? Absolutely. But if you do just this, I can almost tell you with 100% degree of certainty that you will expand your business and your life will be filled with more. That could be more money, more time, or more of both. Whichever one of those three is what you're trying to achieve, this will do it for you. Authority is a funny word because the operative word in there is actually in there, which is author. So you have the word author in authority. And when you think about leading experts in their fields, it's the guy who wrote the book, right, Dave? I mean, that's the guy who's the leading authority and expert in a field. And I learned that very young because my dad was a trial lawyer and he would hire expert witnesses. Defense, and he had a huge case where his expert witness was the guy who actually wrote the book, and the defense's expert was citing that book in his defense. Now, who wins that battle? Right, exactly. The guy who wrote the book, right? So I also learned it because early on I was doing cases with older advisors who wrote books, and I was talking about split cases with them. I started adding up when these cases would close how much money I'd be paying out. It was like almost $100,000, and I thought, I'm paying $100,000 for being the guy who didn't write the book on the subject. Now that doesn't make a lot of sense. No. So that's when I started working on writing books and positioning myself as this leading authority. Now I am— everybody records things, Dave. I know you do. I'm sure a lot of the folks on the call do. Maybe they do seminars, webinars. What you do, what we've always done, is we record just about everything. Every seminar, everything we do. I look for that outlier of response, the one where for whatever reason we got a little bit better bump, a little better quality of prospect in front of us, and then we transcribe it. Then I religiously do this. I wake up 1 hour earlier. When I'm writing a book and go to sleep 1 hour later. And I spend 1 hour in the morning and 1 hour in the evening for 14 days. So I commit 28 hours to a book, and then I send it to a finish editor just to make sure punctuality and whatnot makes sense. But I want there to be consistency in the conversational tone of what I'm writing and how I speak, so that when they read that book and they come in to meet me or if they've met me at a seminar and I give them that book, there's complete consistency in message, there's complete consistency in terminology, and that builds great, great, great, great trust in people.

Consistency. All right, so there— so you've got your authority from writing the book. Let's talk about the next piece of the puzzle, which is celebrity. Do you also get that from the book?

Absolutely. I mean, I think, I think the book creates some level of of celebrity, but you know, you amp it up, man. Celebrities are on TV. So the question is, how can you get on TV? I have a preference for infomercial-style formats where there is an interview. I think there is nothing more power positioning that you can do than to be interviewed on your topic as the author on the topic that you are involved in. So if you are a dentist, you may they talk about how to build that magnificent smile. And you have this interviewer who is very interested in you, interviewing you on the steps that you need to take to have this stunningly beautiful smile. And by the way, Dr. Smith over here wrote this wonderful book, How to Create a Smile That Makes Everyone Else Smile. I don't know, whatever it is, right? And then, you know, that becomes your giveaway. Now they've seen you on TV, they respond that you show up quick, and that affords you the, the opportunity to be the highest and most expensive dentist in your area because you just look different than everyone else. So celebrity to me means you have to be on TV, which brings us to our third step, Dave, and that's, and that's exclusivity. And more money is lost here than, than anywhere. The environment of where the people come to for that meeting or the place. And this could even be online. It's just understanding the presence of your space and what it is communicating in a nonverbal fashion to your clientele. And I think that's an area where most marketers— you spend all this money on lead generation, you spent this extra money on showing up in their mailbox quickly, you've got the these gorgeous assets that you've created in the form of excellent intellectual property and marketing deliverables that you put into their hands that are motivating. And if they show up and you got ketchup stains on your shirt and your office looks like a rundown pawn shop, you know, you're not going to close them out. So you got to create an environment that speaks to your avatar client and makes them comfortable and puts them in the mindset of trusting you.

That's really key. That's, that's beautiful. And you know, now actually, before we started this call, one of the things we were talking about is, you know, psychic selling and some of the subliminal things that you can do in your environment. Why don't—

and I know you're really fascinated by this—

so what are some of the things that you've done in your office that really, again, the casual observer would not notice. I know for one is that I believe you do this, you show that TV show that you're on, that interview in the background, correct?

Before someone ever gets to meet with you in your office. Is that true? Yeah, man, when it's your space, you control your space, right? So in my office, I love the folks that work for me and we're like, I consider them extended family. But there is a kiss of immediate execution from this office and that is setting out a Money Magazine or setting out setting out a Wall Street Journal, right? That, that's like the worst thing ever. So when you come into one of our waiting areas, you're going to get to watch one thing on TV— that interview and the Fox News stuff— where it, you know, where Fox News is cutting into our commercial and then it's cutting into our infomercial. And we've, we've created a videographic, you know, flow that really says, leading expert Matt Segula, you know, here's the guy you want to know, Matt Segula. It's all We don't rush them into the office to sit them into the conference table. We want them to spend 5, 7 minutes looking at that. If they want to read instead of look at that, they can. They can read one of our books, or they can read one of the articles that we've written, but nothing else needs to be out. That's controlling our space. And then of course, Dan actually early on said, "What's your office look like?" So I took some pictures, and he said, "You know," he goes, "you got nice artwork." I go, "Thanks." He goes, "It doesn't do anything for me." I said, "What do you mean?" Well, as he said, it does nothing for me. He said, it doesn't make me feel anything. And I go, well, well, what would make you feel good? He says, I don't know, like some old signed movie posters. So we took down all the expensive artwork and, and we put up a bunch of like Casablanca and Breakfast at Tiffany's and It's a Wonderful Life. And we, we found them signed by the actual stars, and we, we put those into frames. And it is a very— I see people looking at these all the time, and there are people that love those movies, and it brings them to a place in their mind of comfort and ease and happiness. And, and, you know, Dan was the one that said, hey, you know, as a, you know, if I— as a client, if I'm there, this is, this is the way I want it to look, and I think I'm the target. I said, well, you're the target, just a little grumpier than some of my other folks, but yeah, you're the target, man. So we were able to to re-engineer the presence, the environmental marketing by suggestions from Dan. And it made a huge difference. And then really our coaching group all did that. And everybody experienced a pop. You know, I was even looking at like putting televisions in the restrooms with our leading expert show running. You know, like why not? You know, why give them the opportunity to go to the bathroom in peace or wash their hands? We should be pushing ourselves there. But I was stopped.

You were stopped? Well, my idea was to put your articles right on the toilet paper.

Yes, that's brilliant. That is brilliant. Actually, I can't remember who did this, but somebody at one of the conferences put something in the urinals that said something not— I don't know that I can say on this call, but stop something away your marketing dollars.

That was really brilliant. That is brilliant. Okay, so we've talked about trust-based lead generation. We talked about the ACE formula. There's something else that you, that you say is like the key, and where so many people drop the ball, and that is consistency. So talk a little bit about consistency and its importance and exactly what it is.

Well, it's kind of like how a wild animal who's attacking you can smell fear. If you change your story, it becomes scary. And I'll give you this example I use all the time, so forgive me, Mr. D, for doing this to you again, but the story is you're driving down the road road and you're with your family and you're on a long road trip and you're hungry and you know you see this Ma's Greatest Hamburgers in the World, voted best hamburgers in the world by 19,000 different magazines, right? And then there's a McDonald's. Now there's comfort in those golden arches. You know what the kids are going to look like, kind of. You know what their uniforms are going to look like. You know what the packaging is going to look like. Most of them are laid out identically the same way. You almost know where the bathroom is if you really got to go. You know which way to run. So it's designed based on perfect and synchronized consistency. And we know that they use pink slop or something in their hamburgers, right? But we're not going to get food poisoning there. And even though Ma's says she has the best hamburgers in the world, 19,000 newspapers say so, she hasn't sold billions and billions of hamburgers like McDonald's has. Now why would we go there? Certainly not for the culinary experience, right? Because it's not that good. But we go there because it's familiar, it's consistent, and we trust it. And we know that if our kid eats the chicken nuggets, they're not going to be throwing up for the next 200 miles of the trip, right? I mean, it's literally— it's not about being good there, it's about being consistent. And I think that there's a lot— there's a huge message for all of us us in how much intrinsic value you can bring to your own enterprise by understanding the importance of building consistency throughout. Also why my book has to sound like my seminar, our jargon and how we talk about what we do in our office is all consistent. We take out all the psychophobic terms and replace them with psychoeuphoric re-terminology that we've created, not to misrepresent what we do, Everybody knows what they buy. But if we were going to do a life insurance trust, that puts up immediate resistance. If we're going to do income then inheritance trust planning, it just feels better. Now ultimately they're going to use life insurance to fund that, but it doesn't bring that immediate— they can stay focused on what it's going to do rather than react to the psychophobic term of buying life insurance. Whenever you record this stuff, you get that. You capture all those psychophobic things that you're saying and doing.

Got it. So consistency really then goes throughout everything you're doing, from your lead generation all the way from when someone comes into your office, right? I mean, that's why you were saying that the environment that someone comes into has got to match all the stuff that you've put before, that they've seen before then. It can't be— unless there's a huge pattern interrupt there and people are just So everything's got to be consistent.

See, the pattern interrupt in NLP, which is interesting to me, doesn't apply at long-standing high-value relationships because we're not trying to pattern interrupt someone to get them to do something once. We're trying to build lifelong value in this relationship. So interrupting the pattern to get a yes response isn't what we want. We want these people to genuinely believe and trust that we're going to deliver on our promise. And hey, sometimes thankfully we screw up. Thankfully we do, because what people really want are professionals who own up to mistakes quickly and fix them. So hey, look, as much transactions as we do here, there are going to be mistakes. And you know, we don't have like, if you make a mistake in our office that you're in big trouble. I don't want a bunch of them, but when we have them, we own up to them quickly and we tell the people the mistakes we've made. And I know that sounds like, oh, of course that's what everybody does, but that's not what everybody does in our industry. Industry. So you just need to be different and you need to be consistent in your approach because ultimately it all leads down to one thing, Dave. The book is a really great starting point because you will identify those psychophobic things that you're saying and doing. Then you can retrain your staff to quit doing those as well. So it's a great exercise in learning where you're kind of missing the mark with speaking directly to your avatar client. Client. But ultimately what it all comes down to is when you have these powerful deliverables and that person across the desk says yes to you and they're going to place their trust in you and you know you're going to deliver on that, they now become the best media in the world, much better than a newspaper, much better than a radio show, a Fox News spot, a direct mail piece. There's nothing in the world than someone who believes in you. And you hand them your book and your consumer's guide, and you say something like this. You say, you know what, Dave, you've been fantastic to work with. If I could hit the repeat button on you all day long, my friend, I would. It's been a pleasure working with you. And I don't know if you realize this, but about 80% of our business does not get here the way that you have. You responded to our ad. 80% of our business comes from from our clients telling their friends, their neighbors, and their family about them. But, you know, I never want to put anybody in that position. It's kind of awkward. So I'm going to make it easy. Remember that book I gave you? Here's 2 copies of it and 2 copies of that consumer's guide. If it ever comes up with friends or family members or neighbors and you're talking about this financial kind of stuff, just give them these books and this consumer's guide and say, these are the people that we like and Trust. So just hand them the book and say, "These are the people that we like and trust." So you give them a script, you give them deliverables, and I've got to tell you, that's better than any other marketing thing you can ever do. If you get people handing their friends, their family, and their neighbors and saying, "Dave D. is the guy that I like and trust," man, it's over. That's how you build a business. That's how you drive your lead generation costs down, and that's how total market domination happens, because every time you get a referral, your lead cost gets cut in half.

Wow. That, you know, it's really great. As you know, Matt, we're now transcribing all of the Gold CDs because literally what you— that sentence that you just gave, those couple sentences about how you get referrals, everyone should be taking and using it. I love the— and I can tell you that it's not the first time you've used that, is it? I mean, hit the repeat button, man. It was absolutely phenomenal. Quite frankly, that one sentence, if people use it, is worth their entire year's Gold Membership. I mean, honestly, that's just brilliant. We could go on talking. Go ahead.

It is, and I'll tell you, you're absolutely right. The thing is, you have to put forth that little effort to be able to hand them something, because asking for referrals It's about reversing the polarity of asking for a referral. See, now you're giving them a gift that they can give to their neighbors, their friends, of value— your book. And on the back it says, hey, it sells for $14.99, and if you go on Amazon, it's for sale. So now you've given them a gift to give to somebody, and it's different than saying, hey, can you tell all your neighbors and friends about me? Is there a way for me to get their phone number so I can bother them? I mean, that's not what people want. It completely does a risk reversal on the referral-based process. And you're right, man, that's like, that's like 2 years of membership, maybe 5.

I mean, it really is. No, I mean, that's not an exaggeration. It is. I mean, how much do you think that those 2 sentences have earned you over the past— since you started your career? Millions. Yeah, millions, right? I mean, literally. And it's right there for you. Hey, Matt, thank you so much. Truly outstanding, and I really, really appreciate your time.

My pleasure, my friend. Thank you for listening to the Magnetic Marketing Podcast with Dan Kennedy. If you love hearing in on these lost Dan Kennedy talks and speeches and calls, then please let someone else know about this podcast. That's how you can help it to grow, and the more it grows, the more free Dan Kennedy we can bring to you. Also, Dan would love to give you the most incredible free gift gift ever designed to help you make maximum money in minimum time. This free gift comes with almost $20,000 in pure money-making information for free just for saying maybe. You can get this gift from Dan right now at NoBSLetter.com. Not only do you get the $20,000 gift, you also get a subscription to 2 marketing newsletters that will be hand-delivered by the mailman to your mailbox each and every month, one from Dan Kennedy and one from me, Russell Brunson. To get this gift and your subscription, go to NoBSLetter.com right now.