Unlocking Steve J Larsen’s "Dramatic Demonstrations" Event

What's up everybody, welcome to the Marketing Secrets Podcast. So excited to have you guys here today. I got a really cool guest I brought into the studio, to the office here at ClickFunnels HQ. Someone who's been with me for a long time, Steve Larsen. Used to be Stephen Larsen, then went to Steve Larsen, but then he put a J in the middle, so Steve J. Larsen, but one of my favorite people in this world, and what I'm excited about is we're working on a really cool project about dramatic demonstrations, writing a book about dramatic demonstrations, so I thought for the podcast, let's have him here and we're gonna talk about dramatic demonstrations, what they are, but what's cool is during the interview we did some really cool things, like we talked about, some old dead people like P.T. Barnum, like stuff he did. I talked about Farmer Burns, some old things he was doing to market back in the day. But then we went very specific on like campaigns that we've actually both run, both like dramatic demonstrations to launch YouTube videos, dramatic demonstrations to launch books, dramatic demonstrations to launch courses. So if you have anything you're selling, there's gonna be some really cool ideas for you. Like here's how you can use these dramatic demonstrations to get more noise, more attention. I shared a strategy that I've never shared anywhere except for at my inner circle group. So people pay $50 grand a year, they know about this, nobody else. I wasn't gonna share it, but they're like, I think we're like 40 or 50 minutes in, I like just dropped it and then, yeah, so now you guys have that as long as you make it through the podcast interview, which would be really cool. So with that said, I hope you guys enjoy this episode of the Marketing Secrets Podcast. Welcome to the Marketing Secrets Podcast. My name is Russell Brunson and I'm what you call a serial entrepreneur, but with a twist. You see, 50% of my time I'm the CEO of ClickFunnels, helping over 100,000 brands to grow their companies with funnels. And the other 50% of my time, I'm actually in the trenches using ClickFunnels to grow the startups I believe in. During this podcast, I'll take you behind the scenes and show you how we are bootstrapping ClickFunnels and my other businesses from startup to 9 figures and beyond. Welcome to the show. What's up everybody? This is Russell Brunson. Welcome back to the Marketing Secrets Podcast. Today I'm with a special guest, and this is probably also gonna go on his podcast, so this is a dual podcast. His name is Steve J. Larsen. Steve, how you doing today?

Woo, excited to be here.

I'm excited to have you here, man. You seem like, when we first moved into this building, you were, part of it. You were helping me knock down walls and build the whole thing. And we sat in here for all day and all night for years.

Years. Long time. Many hours.

So it's awesome having you back. And do I talk real quick? So people listen to mine. Mine's the Marketing Secrets Podcast. Come subscribe to my channel if you're not here. For your podcast, where do people subscribe to get onto yours?

Yeah, just stevejlarsen.com and talk all things business and life.

Cool. So this is— I'm excited for this one because we have an event coming up really soon called Dramatic Demonstrations, which is something me and you've been geeking out about for the last 2 or 3 years. And so I thought it'd be fun just to kind of brainstorm, talk about dramatic demonstrations and get people excited about what they are and what they're not. Um, do we have a link right now where they could register? I know we're doing a pre-event for people who want to come watch it ahead of time. Do we have a link for that?

Yeah. Yeah. Dramaticdemonstrations.com.

Oh, what a great domain. How did we know? So, and we're doing a 3, like a 3-hour pre-event, right?

Yeah. Yeah. It's like a, like a preview, like here's what it's about. Yeah.

So you can go register that for free, which you should. Um, and then come onto the live event if you guys want to come hang out with us. So that's kind of the long-term anyway. In the short term, over the next hour or so, we can talk about dramatic demonstrations. So I'm trying to think of the chicken and egg. When did we first start talking about this? Do you remember?

Yeah, I remember it was like 2019. The world was about to shut down and I was doing like a nerd-out session on the whiteboard and I was like, oh, you know, I wonder if there's any weird patterns on how P.T. Barnum did these launches, you know, how he used marketing. And as I started listing out all these big famous stories, I was like, oh my gosh, he has like a launch model. Every time he launched anything, and whether or not it was a product that no one had ever heard of or there's a product that everyone knew of and he was trying to outposition somebody else. And I remember I was dropping something off at your house. I don't know if you remember this, but we were getting ready for FHL 2020 and walking out. I was like, hey man, you know that look you and I have that look and it's easy. Look, yeah, it's crazy marketing. Look like I got to brain dump this to somebody who understands it. And I remember I just vomited on you for like an hour and a half and FHL happened. And then it was like 6 months later, you're like, That was cool. We should do something. It's kind of where it came from.

So cool. I remember because me, I was, I was reading Dan Kennedy book and in one of the chapters he said the phrase about, he said that phrase dramatic demonstrations. I was like, oh, like, that's what this is like. It's, it's not like people do a product demo, do whatever. So, you know, it needed to be bigger. And I heard that phrase from Dan Kennedy. I think that's when I bought the domain name. I'm like, I need to buy this. And then we start talking. I was like, this is the thing we should talk about dramatic demonstrations. And by the way, those who are watching the video version, in my hand I've got a little mini P.T. Barnum. He's here with us today. This is actually Hallmark made these P.T. Barnum dolls. Back in 1979. So this doll is older than I am. So this— so, you know, in memory of P.T. Barnum and all the greats we're talking about, he's here with us today. So that's the weird little dude who's sitting there on stage. If you're wondering who he is.

So I'm just going to start buying a bunch of those and like stack them on your car. A little voodoo doll.

P.T. Barnum everywhere. So I think this is fun because I think both you and I, maybe because we hung out for so long, for so many years, like we both geek out on, on people and figures from the past and marketing from the past, right? For me, it really started because of Dan Kennedy. You know, I got in his world. I was doing internet marketing and he was talking about fax machines. At first I was like, what does this have to do with me? And then later I realized what, you know, how I could apply it to my business. And so for me, I started geeking out looking at old people's stuff just like you did. And then you've gone kind of the same route. So I don't know where that all came from, but was PT Barnum the first one you kind of studied when you were looking deeper? Or other people as well?

No, actually it was, it was because of you. I was doing an event early 2019 and you, it's actually when you keynoted at, Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, 600 people, right? And then I remember after the fact, you said to me, you sent me a message and you go, have you ever studied Claude Hopkins? I was like, no, I don't know who that is. And he goes, you said Claude Hopkins?

Yeah.

You're like, Claude Hopkins is like the original scheme man or offer guy. They used to call him, you know, you told me, right? They used to call him scheme men. Was that a cool name?

Oh, yeah. Schemes have got such a negative connotation about it. They used to call people scheme men. And that was the person who created the offer in a company was a scheme man.

Yeah.

Such a cool name.

And that's like a weird thing, but like back then had a totally different meaning. And then that's when I started just kind of like peeling back the layers of the onion. And I was like, this is awesome. And then I got into Albert Lasker and just all these, all these different people. And then that's when Barnum came up. It's like, who's this guy?

And then there was like, he's the most prolific of them all.

He was like at 10x the amount of volume and content compared to all the others. And so it was just fun to go deep.

What's interesting is, uh, as you know, the very first, um, time we spoke at Funnel Hacking Live about dramatic demonstrations, we talked about P.T. Barnum. And then I think you had the idea originally, we should get P.T. Barnum a Two Comma Club Award. So during the event, like the, the, the screen opens and they bring out a big old statue or a big, uh, cutout of P.T. Barnum. We give Cuban Award. But what's interesting is he actually was the second— tell me, you knew this time— I mean, he's the second millionaire in U.S. history, right?

Yeah, second millionaire in America.

It's crazy. Who was the first one?

Uh, he was a drug dealer, actually, which I think is kind of funny.

So see, yeah, something in the 1800s. So drugs or— yeah, or entertainment. But for me, I think the first one— so when I got in this business, Matt Fury was one of the first people I studied. He was— he's not doing a lot of stuff nowadays, a lot of people know who he is, but he was an amazing marketer. He was in the wrestling space initially. So I started buying his wrestling courses while I was wrestling, not knowing anything about business or anything. And he had this course that came out. It was the Farmer Burns course. It was this old guy from 1919 who was a— who was this wrestling coach and stuff.

So I remember that guy, right? Yeah. Yeah.

It was like I spent like— it was like $50 for this book. And I'm a high school kid, so I'm like saving up money to buy this Farmer Burns wrestling course in the 1900s because he talked about the old guys, how they were way tougher than nowadays. And I remember on the sales letter, we sell the course, Matt Fury told this story and you see it in my gym, I have a pitch, I found an actual picture on eBay. So what Farmer Burns was doing, this is a perfect example of a dramatic demonstration. So he was trying to sell his wrestling course. So he would go to city fairs all across the country, Nebraska, Iowa, whatever. And he'd go to city fairs and he would set up a hangman's noose. He'd wrap an entire thing around his neck and then they would, pull the floor and the floor would drop and they would do like the 6-inch or however, 6-foot drop, which would normally break it, like that's how people die. People think that strangling, you die from being strangled. Usually it's the drop and it breaks your neck and that's how you die and you're laying there hung. So they would do that, he would drop and his neck was so thick, he'd sit there and then he'd whistle Yankee Doodle Dandy while the crowd went crazy around him. And then he'd sell the wrestling course. And he went from city to city to city and that's how he became Farmer Burns, was this crazy dramatic demonstration, right? And it's like, 'Cause back then they didn't have TV or internet, anything. It's like we had to do something amazing to get attention. So that's what these guys were doing. And like nowadays people are so lazy that they just like put up a Facebook ad and a funnel and hope for the best, right? I think that's what we're trying to inspire people. It's like, no, like do amazing things to get people's attention. And I'd love for you to talk about some of the, I know there's so many cool P.G. Barnum stories, but any of them that you can share that just gets people's wheels in their heads spinning, like how people were doing it then. And then maybe we can dive into nowadays, like what, what we're doing.

Yeah, totally. You know, the one that immediately comes to mind is actually the Jenny Lind story. I love the story. There's whole books on this. Jenny Lind was basically America's first female rock star, and but she was really a nobody in America. And so the story goes that, you know, P.T. Barnum is a little bit later in his career and he had this reputation with the public of being a hoaxman. And so in efforts to be seen more professionally, he's like, I'm going to go work with someone who's like big and famous, more classy, more classy. That's like the whole motivation he had for it was to just change how the public saw him. So he goes and he's like, He's like, I love Jenny Lind, famous opera singer in America. And what if I started partnering with her? I'm gonna have her come to America, I'll sell out her shows, she'll sing her opera, you know, and she'll be a business partner of mine. And so he's psyched about it, goes into a little bit of debt to bring her to America, you know, across the ship. And as he's like stoked about it, the story goes that he's walking down the street and he's like, you know, woohoo, I'm bringing, I'm bringing Jenny Lind to America, Jenny Lind's coming to America. And he's not really getting the reaction he wants. And he's saying it to people as he walks down the street, a doorman goes to open the door and, uh, he's like, who's Jenny Lynn? And it's at that moment that he realizes, oh my gosh, I'm bringing a nobody. Like no one knows who this lady is. I, he's eccentric, you know, he found out who he's obviously wealthy. So he has the resources to kind of learn outside of America at that point and no internet, you know? And so he is, uh, oh my gosh, I have to go figure out how to basically get a no one famous. And the reason I love this story is because entrepreneurs, they, as they go create a brand new offer, for behind the scenes, you know, it's kind of like Jenny Lind. No one knows who she is. No one knows that the entrepreneurs made this offer. And P.T. Barnum made her into, into a somebody as she's on the ship. And so he, he first gets all these reporters to just create story about her in the news. And the challenge was that no one had ever really seen her before because there's no internet. And so these artists are like practicing pictures of her and they're trying to guess what— no one ever heard her sing either. And You know, so they start like, hey, here's what she's like, her personality, her dislikes. And so he starts creating this character that no one's ever met, but just the idea of it in people's brains. But then he goes out and he's starting to have like— he auctions tickets to the events. He has a poetic competition and all these poets do these, you know, she's not even to America yet, right? And these poetic competitions and on the dock where the ship's going to arrive, he has Jenny Lind swag and bakery goods. They actually ended up coining it Lindomania. Because— and she didn't know this was going to happen. So she arrives on the ship and there's such hysteria, like true legitimate first time in America hysteria over a celebrity that P.T. Barnum created from someone no one had ever heard of before. 30,000 people show up at the docks and there's like these stories of all these men paying maids to steal hairs from her comb. Like, really, like, weird stuff.

Like, people were weird back then too. Yeah, nowadays.

No, it's still around. It's just easier with tech, you know? So it's funny because like, this is like the first real story though, where, where some like celebrity was created out of nothing, out of thin air. And she didn't know this was going to happen. And so she kind of broke up the band after a while, like 90 shows in, just got tired of him and she couldn't sell any shows. And I think it's one of the biggest parts to it is that as soon as the noise machine ended and Barnum stopped putting stories in the press and he stopped doing competitions and JVs of that day with other opera singers, like the money dried up. Like, what a powerful story. And so, like, at the heart of it, the thing that I take from that is that at the heart, marketers are event throwers, you know, and we might do an event in so many different ways today, but it's like, we're— that's really what we do.

Yeah. Now, dramatic demonstration is key.

Yeah.

One thing for those who have seen The Greatest Showman and know Jenny Lind through that, they did not ever have an affair like was portrayed in the movie. That was Hollywood trying to ruin his image. Little P.T. Barnum here in my hand. He never did that kind of thing. He's great.

So, yeah, in fact, funny enough, Barnum's wife and Jenny Lind did not get along.

Yeah, I can imagine.

He called Pete a cow several times. Anyway, they didn't get along.

That's hilarious.

Yeah.

Okay, so I want to talk about then, like, for people listening to this, because, you know, obviously, I mean, you geek out on the stories back then, but everyone's like, well, how does this work for me today? What does that even look like? And so I think it'd be fun to go back and forth on just stuff we've done in the past. I was just— as you were talking, I think like Funnel Hacking Live is a good example of an offer that we do every single year. And it's a it's for us the hardest thing we sell. Events are hard to sell because you got to get somebody convinced that they got to take time off work and get a ticket and hotels and flights and figure out what to do with the kids and the spouse. Like, it's the hardest thing we sell, right? So for us, it's always like, like, and people always ask me, how do you sell so many tickets to your event? I'm like, well, it's because we're selling them, you know, all the time, doing all sorts of stuff throughout the entire year trying to get excitement and noise. I remember one of the dramatic demonstrations we decided to do was a telethon.

I was just thinking that one.

Do you remember the old PBS telethons? I remember back in the day, watching telethons and like PBS was like, I remember one day, I can't remember who I said to, we should do a telethon. And usually it's Dave would be like, we should totally do a telethon. And so like in this room that we're in right now, they set up tables and people with phone calls, like phones back there and like, and Dave had the whole money suit on and we just jumped on and for, I don't know how many hours. It was like 4 hours.

Yeah.

We just like did Facebook Lives and on the Facebook Lives we're like, call right now, call right now. We're doing crazy prizes, giving away stuff and just, It was chaos. I think we sold, I don't know, a couple, like 100-something tickets that day, where we are normal, they might sell 3 or 4 tickets, you know, and it's just this huge thing, and then it was over, but then I still get people today like, do you remember that telethon you guys did the one time? And it was just a random, a random dramatic demonstration to try to recreate and like, to get noise about an offer, right? You always talk about this, like the goal's like, you're creating a hook, and the hook is, that's what the dramatic demonstration is, right? Do you wanna explain to people what that is? 'Cause I think a lot of times they, like the takedown wasn't Funnel Hacking Live. It was a hook to get people interested so we could then sell them Funnel Hacking Live. You know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah. It's, it's, I think the danger is that some people look at a dramatic demonstration as the same thing as a launch. And it's like, they're not really the same thing. You're still launching, you're doing something to get attention. But the real key piece is this little offer hook part. My favorite way to explain it is back when I was a door-to-door sales guy and, you know, for two summers door-to-door sales, I sold pest control and I sold security and I was also a telemarketer. And, um, I did it because I heard Kiyosaki once say in college, he's like, if you're going to be an entrepreneur and you haven't learned how to sell, you're never going to be an entrepreneur. So I was like, make it hard, coach, put me to the toughest place, you know, door-to-door sales delivered. That sucked. But no, but I remember though that there was really, and anyone in sales knows there's, there's really two parts to the script and not talking marketing, literally just sales. You know, it's like when I go knock on the door and the opening was like, you know, What's up? Hey, I'm spraying the Joneses' house down the street with the truck is here. Uh, that's half our cost, so we can do it for 50% off. Is 4 or 5 o'clock okay for you today? You know, we just went straight, very assumptive close. Yeah. Straight in, very assumptive close. What time? And then, but the whole point though, and I mean, very rarely would someone go 5 o'clock and instead what it would do is smoke out their issues and we, you know, address them and get around. But the whole point though is that's really part one of the script. And we were not allowed. In fact, my sales trainer would ask me, did you get to the question? We were never allowed to go to part 2 of the script where we talk about the offer until we got them to ask one question, which is how much is it? Or tell me more, you know, and that key question right there allowed us to then present the offer. And, um, I think that's the danger a lot of marketers have today is they're assuming when they go to put out their marketing copy, They're assuming that people are already saying, tell me more, when really you haven't done part one, which is all this stuff that you're doing. Tell me more. How much is it? And marketers get in trouble because they're like, raise your hand. Come on, get it up there. Yeah, yeah. You want me to talk about my offer? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Raise that hand.

Yeah.

And then it's like offensive. It's not a collaboration, you know, communication between the two.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Interesting. So how does that like— I'm trying to pitch that for people to make sure they understand. So like, yeah, give me an example of something you've done Specifically that breaking into back negotiation from the offer and like separating those two things. Yeah.

Yeah. I have one, uh, that was, uh, for you actually at the, remember the, um, the weight loss, uh, thing there. So the scenario is this lady, right? The, you, you wanted to go put out, uh, products for and supplements for. She's like, hey, um, I said, hey, who's the dream customer? And she goes, I want to work with somebody who is trying to lose weight. They once felt like they were the pretty girl. They want to go, you know, and get more. They want to feel better about themselves, be more confident, and they just feel like life has gotten in the way. And so what we had to do is we had to identify a story that wasn't sales material, you know, it was really getting someone to say, tell me more. And so this whole hook was like, hey, you just looked at the last picture of you at a party and asked yourself, is that what I look like? You know, and you want— you've known what it's like to get a man's sneaking glance. How come you don't have that anymore? And Now you have this diagnosis you kind of feel secret about, and now maybe a relationship didn't turn out the way you want to. And, um, you know, and then we basically said, what could you do to get revenge on all these things that have happened in your life only using your body? And we got getyourrevengebody.com, which is— when the right person hears that, they go, tell me more. And we're not, we're not, you know, we're not walking around— that's not a sales script. It's getting someone to just go, wait, what? Just hand-raising is all you're really doing. So if you think about that, like for anyone watching or listening, it's like, look at everything you're doing in marketing today and ask yourself, does it— does this get someone to raise their hand or am I already asking them for money and we're not even in a relationship yet? That's really a good way to figure out what you're doing.

Yeah. How do we get their attention? How do we get them to stop? How do we get them to want more?

Yeah.

And usually create the desire. It's interesting because like when I— I'm thinking about this funny— I'm obviously planning Funnel Hacking Live. You don't have your tickets yet. Go to funnelhackinglive.com.

Crazy.

But I'm also thinking like, what are campaigns in the past And so I always think about like, what's something that's hot right now? So 2 years ago when NFTs were like the thing, it was like, oh, NFTs are so cool. So I was like, okay, we know this is a thing that people are talking about. Like, how do I use that as a hook to get like, take something they're already interested in and throw my message out there to like hook upon it and use the existing attention of what's happening, right? So we did that. So we did this whole, it was like NFTFHL.com or something. And I remember we took everyone who'd ever been to Funnel Hack Live in the past and we had these like bank bags and put a sales letter, big old ad NFT. I can't remember all the stuff on it. And we shipped it to everyone who ever bought it. So it's like 17,000 people would come to Funnel Hacking Live in the past. We send this thing in the mail, they got it, they were able to, you know, read through it. And then it was like, there's a live event coming. This is just for you guys, nobody else. And so, you know, 17,000 people had a private invite to this NFT event. And then we came on and we're talking about NFTs and why they're so cool. I'm like, this year's FHL, Tom Bilyeu's gonna come talk about NFTs, which is amazing, show you how you use NFTs inside your funnel. Um, on top of that, like, um, we actually created NFTs for all you guys who've been to Funnel Hacking Live. We made an NFT for each each year, right? So, and then it was cool as I used, I used this whole NFT angle to be able to sit there and like present to people. So it was crazy. We had a couple thousand people on this presentation and they sat there for hours. I went through and I was like, okay, those who are 2015, 2015, I'm like, this is the NFT you get if you're here for 2015. I showed, I showed them the thing and I was like, um, and like, let me show you guys a video. So I showed the, the sales video from 2015 FHL. So they saw that, I came back and I was able to pitch, go get tickets. And I showed the 2017 one and the same thing. It's like for 2 hours they're watching these little video presentations about old events. They got an NFT for being there. So they got nostalgic. Like, I remember being there. I remember like I told the story about each event and by the time it was done, you know, people sat there for like 90 minutes, me doing like story time with Russell. And they're like, people are crying. Like, I remember that event. I want to go back. And all these people like rebought tickets afterwards. But it was like, it was like creating this desire and a hook and like just something different to like get out there to like really get their attention, right?

Yeah.

Because the hardest thing nowadays is there's so much— I don't know, like everyone's so busy and like attention is the key, right?

Yeah.

And it's the hardest thing to get. And we're competing not just against like the people in their life, you're competing against like some of the greatest people. We're competing against Joe Rogan, the UFC, NFL, NBA. Like everyone's fighting for the same eyeballs every second on each other's phones, right? Like that's who we're competing against, everybody else. It's like, how do you create something that's already got their interest and you're grabbing those people and then bringing them back? Bringing it back in.

I was thinking, yeah. And just, okay. I was thinking about this a while ago. I was like, so what really is, if attention is the goal and there's all these ways to get attention, like what really is the precursor, like the leading indicator to attention? And it's really noise. You know, like we look at the origin of sound and that's true even on a phone or whatever. Like, and you can make noise. I think the problem is that when people hear marketing and they hear the word noise, they think annoying, you know, but you can make positive noise. You can make things that people are excited about. Yeah, music is right. And it reminds me of— do you remember when we did—

this is a long time ago.

You remember the 24-hour funnel build that we did? Yeah.

We built like 4 different companies' funnels in one day because I was like, I just watched like every 24-hour— or it's in the TV show 24. I'm like, we should do that. That was a fun, insane night. Do you remember? So Brandon, you guys can't see me behind the camera. He was there filming it and like By 4 a.m., he was laughing uncontrollably because he was so tired and we couldn't stop. I forgot about that. Remember that? 100%.

We should do that again. But that's like—

we should relaunch that episode, like, just to show everybody that whole—

that was fun—

that came from that. That was really fun.

Well, I think that that's like the— I think where people sometimes hear dramatic demonstration, they get a little bit hung up too, is they hear the word dramatic and they're like, I got to do the equivalent of bringing a celebrity from Europe, you know, I got to go and— or whatever. But it can just be doing what you do in a really unique way. Yeah. You know, just something building for 24 hours.

It's something interesting. It's like, how do you do something that's— yeah, doing— we just built funnels for 24 hours, or—

and then we went to the movie theater and launched the episode like a few, a few hours later.

Remember that? Like, go take a nap real quick and then come back and watch it. Yeah. Oh my gosh, so much fun.

That was crazy.

We did a lot of crazy stuff back in the day.

Yeah, we did.

We gotta add some more of that chaos back into it, back into our lives. Too civilized. Yeah, it's so interesting. Um, I was thinking about, um, Another recent dramatic demonstration we did, and you know about this one, but was with Dan Kennedy, right? Because again, me and you have been talking about so much. So every time we would have a new like offer, trying to launch, my next question, like, what's the dramatic demonstration? Like, my mind is thinking. So it's like, like, what is something we create big to again, get excitement and attention? And what's interesting, those who were at Lashers for Life, Tim Shields spoke on the late night session about dramatic demonstrations that he does dramatically, right? And he's interesting because he was, in his past, he would do courses, right? He did courses about photography and things like that from his house. And then he thought, what if I made this more exciting for people? And so what he would do is he would go find a spot. So like the very first one he did was this, he went to the Grand Canyon, the side of the Grand Canyon. He did his live webinar there. It was the same webinar, nothing different other than he's like, I'm taking you guys to the side of the Grand Canyon, it's gonna be amazing. And he brought Starlink out there and he filled, you know, did the whole thing. And he actually recorded a course out in the Grand Canyon and then he did a webinar from there. Showing them stuff and then like sold them the course. And well, he's— they got the course free when they signed up for his continuity program. So he's totally doing the Miffy, you know, doing my— playing the playbook. But it was really, really cool. I had him share with everybody, but he said it, but it didn't really click. I was like, that's cool. I wish I was a photographer because I could do that. And he showed how he did it in like Banff, Canada and this other place, like all over the world doing these cool things. But again, I don't know. I'm sure people at home are similar to me. Like, that sounds really cool. I wish I could do that. And I kept saying that. And then he joined the Atlas groups. Then like 3 weeks later, he's here on the stage in Boise and he's showing the whole thing again. I was like, oh, I wish I was a photographer. I could totally do something cool like that. And he said something that got me a little closer to realizing, but I still didn't pay attention. He was like, the key is this. And so this is like for anyone taking notes. He said, the key is this. He's like, you have to take your customers to a place that they wish they could go, but they would never go on their own. And I was like, ooh, that's so cool. Took a note. Still didn't drop. They didn't sit in my head. And they looked at me directly. I was sitting right there. They looked at me. He's like, Russell, you know what I'd do if I was you? I'm like, what? He's like, your people would love to go to Dan Kennedy's basement. You hear, you always talk about it. They've always heard about it. They can't go there. There's no internet there. He's like, you should bring Starlink to Dan Kennedy's basement and go live from there. I was like, oh, it had to be handed to me on a silver platter before I got it. But then I got it. And hopefully like from that process, some of you guys will now get it. But I'm like, now in my head, I'm like, I was like, where else could I be doing these things at, right? I was like, we're supposed to go out to Wise, Virginia, which is Napoleon Hill's home. And we're just gonna go to a mastermind there. I'm like, I'm so stupid. Like I should be doing it from there. Like we, last month we were at, in Chicago at Earl Nightingale's place. And we were in the archives and all this stuff. And I didn't even think about it. Like I should have brought it there. Like, it's just like, if you're doing something anyway, it's like, like whatever you're doing as a business owner, like bring them there, right? Like, what are you doing anyway? And like, and like let people experience that journey. That's part of like the intrigue and that's part of it. Could be another way to look at a hook, you know, it's just a little bit differently. So Dan, we did that and we ended up by doing that one dramatic demonstration, we signed up more people in the 15-minute window than we had in like 8 months with paid ads through our traditional funnels. And she's like, the power of it's insane. It wasn't that hard. It was just like we had to tell the story. Like the hook's gotta be something interesting enough that people are like, wow. I got to, I got to, I got to register for that. I got to show up for it. You know, like a typical webinar, you get, you know, whatever people register and like 15% show up, right? For Dan Kennedy's Basement, it was like, first off, we had way more registrants because like there's over 10,000 registrants because people are curious, right? And then we had like 70% show up live. So it's just like it shifts the whole dynamic. Now you're pitching to more people because you create something different than just like, I'm doing a webinar from my office today, you know?

Yeah.

And now we can evergreen that webinar, show it for the rest of our lives. So Anyway, I have really fun ideas.

No, I think it's so cool because I really think it's the antidote to like how the world has gotten. I mean, it's more— ads have just gotten crazy, you know? And you actually said something at Inner Circle last week that was like, I thought, really cool. It's like the final speech you gave the final day. And you go, you said, yeah, in the past, like 10 years ago, these masterminds were all about ways we could do unique JVs together. But now we're all talking about ads 24/7. How interesting is it that almost feel like the scale is tilting the other way. And to me, the concept of dramatic demonstration is the antidote to how much ads world has gone nuts. And there's kind of, I think there's a skill increase here that's going to be necessary for companies because they're going to have to learn how to get attention without just rushing to pay ads. You know what I mean? Which now they get to go more creative and make some more attention, but it's actually easier, faster sales if you do it right than 8 months worth of ads.

Yeah. I think it's easier too, because, um, I used to think creativity came in like making better ads. That's why we hired the Harmon Brothers like 4 times and they're amazing, insane. But each time it was like $500,000 to make an ad campaign. Most people can't do that. Instead it's like, I'm going to go like whatever, insert whatever you do. I'm going to go take these guys to, you know, my high school gym where I grew up and I'm going to show them me shooting baskets in my high school gym or something, you know, like just something you are, it's unique. We can tell a story behind it that's like, that becomes, that becomes interesting and dramatic. Now, I also talk about the very first funnel hack when we talked, you— in fact, you, you requested this. I want you to show the campaign you did to actually sell the Expert Secrets book. Most people saw the funnel like, here's the funnel of how we launched Expert Secrets. And they thought that's what it was. And it was fun preparing for that because I started going back in time and I was like, I can't believe how many little mini things we were doing all the way up leading to, to the big thing. I don't have a list of them all right now, but it was like we were— we had dramatic demonstrations to our affiliates specifically and to our audience, the people who are following us It's like there are multiple things all coming together. The ads were dramatic demonstrations. There were so many fun things we did. And I don't know, can you try to get off the top of my head a couple of the things we were doing?

Totally. You know, it was like 13 things that you did.

All unique different things. Yeah.

They were crazy.

You know, I think we're gonna show at the event too. Like, so those who, if you've registered dramaticdemonstrations.com, we're gonna show that presentation. So you actually see like the screenshots and the videos of all the different things as they're happening, which would be kind of fun. But anyway.

And that's, I don't think people realize that like, launching a book or launching a Harmon Brothers video or whatever, you know, it's, it's the same thing as launching a product, you know, and really a lot of times the precursor to it. But I mean, you remember this, I remember it was like 2 days before that book came out and you sent me a message and you go, dude, we should probably figure out how to put the funnel together because all the marketing energy was in promoting it. There was no funnel yet. Yeah.

That was a little stressful last 2 days, right?

I had so much caffeine.

We should have thought about that ahead of time, but we focused more on dramatic demonstrations. Yeah. We just— so many— even after the launch happened, because remember, like, we launched the book and then it was like, how do we keep momentum going? I remember Howard Berg, the world's fastest reader.

Yeah.

He had messaged me something. I was like, I have an idea. I'm like, hey, can I fly you to Boise? And I want you to read my entire book and we'll time you how fast you can read it. And I'm going to drill you on questions. And that became just a dramatic demonstration, like the world's fastest readers here in Boise. I gave him the book where he read it and he read the whole book in like 4 minutes or blown away, something crazy. And I was like drilling him on questions and he knew all the answers and it was like, what's the point of that? Nothing except for to get people excited and like, make it intriguing, interesting, like make it, you know what I mean? And it was like—

Or like when you sent the book to everybody and they thought they got the real book, but there was nothing in it. There was thousands of people.

Yeah, the book was— so the book wasn't finished yet. So I was like, how do I get affiliates to be interested about this book? Yeah. So we printed out blank copies. I had people texting me like, bro, this book is so good. I was like, There's nothing in it. It's all blank page. I was just sending you something to like let you know a book is coming, get excited about the whole campaign. Yeah, but it's like thinking through like all these different things. Like what are the things we can be doing? I forgot you mentioned the Harmon Brothers video. We launched the video and it wasn't just like, okay, the video's going live on YouTube. It's like, what could we do to make this special? And how can we get people talking about it? How can we get the right people talking about it? Like, if we want to get influencers to share and promote it, how do we get those people there? Like, we got to throw a party. And so It went from throwing a party to throwing a party at Boise State football stadium. It's like, what if we like did a bubble soccer game? They'd be fun. Like, what if we tried to set a Guinness Book of World Records? You know, like, it got chaotic. So sometimes, you know, this is not a good example of how to like do small ones, but it's a good example of big ones. But how do you make it more fun and more exciting? And, you know, to launch a YouTube video, we had, I can't remember, 300 or 400 people in the van. GaryVee came in, like all these influencers, like, And everyone together, like, talked about and pushed and promoted this video, and that helped it to go viral.

I think it's such a key thing to understand too. I think that's actually one of the biggest things people struggle with when they think dramatic demonstration is they don't realize, like, when you're an entrepreneur, that mentality affords to have to think like minimum viable product. You know, what's the fastest thing I can do to get it out the door as quick as possible? But like marketers have a totally different mentality where it's like, what's the loudest thing I can do? How can I make the most? There's no such thing as minimum viable really with marketers. It's like, I'm going to go big, I'm going to throttle hard. And that doesn't mean complicated or chaotic, but loud, you know, getting that attention. My favorite part of that bubble soccer thing was when you made the list of dream 400 YouTubers and we had the script was that you had to act like you were getting out of the car for each one. And I remember looking at you out the window and you got out of the— what's up, this is Russell Brunson. I've just got this cool thing coming up. I want to invite you to— and you're like getting out of the car. You got out of the car faked 400 times and I'm building 400 pages of the—

It was like every influencer was like, hey, what's going on, Dude Perfect? So excited to see you. Yeah, like over. Yeah. I think the reason why I've been successful a lot of times, I'm willing to do what most people are not willing to do.

You know what I mean?

It was hours and hours of me doing that. In fact, it's funny because I think back about, man, this is pre-ClickFunnels, pre-anything anyone would even remember. But my brother just started with me as my video guy. We didn't have a video. We had just a camcorder that you could film video clips or no camera. Photo camera you can take videos on as well. And so same thing I was doing a joint venture or trying to do a launch with JV partners. And so I had my brother stand there and film me do like 300 videos talking to each person. But what's funny about it is, again, this is, it's a little handheld camera, but we didn't have a tripod or anything. And so this is like his first day working for me. So he's standing there holding this camera like start, stop, start, stop, start, stop. And like, I remember like after like 30 minutes he's like, my back's hurting, my shoulders. I was like, sorry, man. Like, we can't stop. Like, we have to keep going. And so for hours he's filming these things and keeping his heart I feel so like looking back, if Scott, if you're watching, thank you again for sacrificing your body for this thing. But it was like 4 hours of that. Like after a while, like we're setting up books, they put his hands on the books, like hold it steady, you know?

Yeah.

But it's like, yeah, like I need everyone to— I need to make enough noise. Like, you know, people are going to listen to like a mass email to 400 people. It's going to be a specific video specific for every single person. Same thing, watch ClickFunnels. It's the exact same thing. We made those video cards and I made a video for every single joint venture partner.

That's right.

Specifically for every single one of those things.

I forgot about that. Yeah, it's just the mentality. I think that's the piece people just struggle with is just they don't realize it's like it's a different mentality than entrepreneur. Not, you know, and they work together, but one's kind of like the builder, one's the noise creator, and they're just so unique. Yeah. You know, one's like, I can just go do this in a cave. I'm going to build my offer. I'm going to sit in the cave. And I don't think you should do that, but you can build a whole product in isolation. But you really can't do it as a marketer. And it's a total— I know it's stupid, but sometimes I'll like like take a hat off and put another hat on. I'm like, okay, I gotta change mentality. Otherwise, I let the entrepreneur mentality start to drive the marketing seat, and that's when it gets dangerous because I'm like doing minimum viable copy, minimum viable noise, minimum viable— and it just doesn't work that way.

That reminds me, um, as you said that, so this is a good example. So, um, my book— I'm writing a book. I've been writing for like 5 years, so who knows if it'll come out. But, um, check this out. So Let me pull it up here on Instagram. So I realized, I was like, if I'm going to do this book, like I need to make more noise and talk about it more often, right? But also it's like, if I can take my audience on the journey with me, like they'll be more likely when the book is done to want to buy it instead of me being like, I wrote a book, like here it is. Like if they're like, they know nothing about the backstory, the pain, the anger, the anxiety, the stress, the like the fact I'm bleeding from my fingers to type this book, right? So I decided I was gonna start documenting this journey and sort of start filming it. And so, I shared this in the Inner Circle, so you've seen it, but this is fascinating. So, so I started this series on Instagram. So follow me on Instagram, you can go see it. And so I started in the very first one. So video one says day number one of writing a new book and hopefully selling a million copies. The very first one I posted got 43,000 views, which is not bad for a reel, like not great, but for me it's like, this is, this is good.

It's great.

And then episode number two I posted. So day two on writing a new book, selling a million copies, 42,000 views. So about the same, a little less. It starts getting momentum. Then day number 3, selling, writing best-selling books, selling copies, 30,000 views. So still not quite there, but it starts getting a little more traction. Day 4, 25,000 views. And then day 5, 49,000, starts growing. Then day number 6, 192,000. Day number 7, 594,000. So I'm 7 days into this. This is me sharing this thing in a direct demonstration. It's like slowly, slowly, slowly. Starts picking up speed. So day 7, 594,000 people watched this video. Day number 8 will launch, I think, on Monday. So once a week we're launching these little, this little series. And think about this now, it's gonna take me a year to write this book. So in a year from now, I'm gonna have like, who knows, maybe 100 of these little episodes. I don't know if this trajectory will continue to go, but imagine like I'm doing these little mini, like it's a 60-second dramatic demonstration, right? Just, here's writing the book, here's the chaos, here's the stress, here's the thing I'm learning, here's like whatever. Like a year from now, imagine if these videos are getting, I don't know, 3 million, 5 million, 10 million views, and then my book comes out. There's 10 million people who every single day for a year have been anxiously anticipating the launch of this book that's eventually gonna come, and then it's like, hey, my book's ready, like boom, New York Times bestseller in 5 seconds, 'cause I've been doing this journey long, right? And I think that for anybody, like instead of building your offers or your funnel or your course or your coaching program or anything in isolation, start sharing the journey. Like this is what I'm doing, this is why I'm doing this, this is how I'm, and just like start taking people on that journey. And then when you get to the finish line, now you have the noise and the audience, all that kind of stuff versus like, okay, the book's done, how should I sell this? I get people coming to me like, hey, I just created my course, I killed myself, it's done, what should I do? And I was like, you missed it.

You should have started, you missed it.

Build the audience first, like that's the key. It's been actually interesting. As you know, my obsession now is like, how do I get traffic that's not, non-Zuckerberg traffic. Yeah, yeah. That's a nice non-Zuckerberg, not where I have to pay him, right?

Yeah.

And so I've been doing a lot of interviews on the podcast talking specifically to people about that. And we had someone talk about Facebook groups and their whole key was like how simple it was, how cheap it was to grow Facebook groups. I was like, think about this. If you're going to start a new offer, create a Facebook group and just start organically growing and dropping, same thing, dropping. Here's what I'm doing, here's what I'm doing, here's what I'm doing. And all of a sudden, like in a month from now, 9 days from now, you have an audience of 500,000, 2,000 people for almost no cost in this group now who are who are part of this process, that audience to sell to, right? Or whatever the thing might be, it's just like, start that, the noise, like the creation of noise early so that when you're ready to make a lot of noise, like that, you know, the level of, I don't know how to explain this shit.

It's waiting for you instead of you, like dude, Barnum did the same. That's one of the biggest lessons I learned going through all these campaigns was he's like, a lot of what internet business owners will do is they'll be like, I finished my product. Yesterday, therefore today I'm going to launch it. And it's like, ah, darn it. You know, they start emailing their list or they start posting, they start immediately approaching the traffic that they can control. But what Barnum did is he never talked to traffic he can like reach until step 4. Like the first thing he always did was he'd always get credibility for the offer and involve another influencer. Always. Like, I think that's a big key piece to it is like every single time he would go involve another influencer and then always involve the audience in the launch. You know what I mean? Like, he would never ever launch in isolation. He launched with the audience, but always like, it's like a little carrot thing. Can't have it yet. Can't have it yet. Can't have it yet. It reminds me of, um, interesting, dude, you remember, uh, it's like 8 years ago I was about to leave working for you. I was sad. And 8 years ago, is that crazy?

That's insane. Almost 8 years ago, I had him, I was like, it was like 18 months ago.

I know, it feels like it was last week, right?

Um, that's crazy.

Nuts, right? A lot of times go by, but like The last project we ever did together was for Software Secrets. Do you remember that? I didn't know we were doing anything for them. And so 3 months before that, I was looking at different podcasts on software and I started listening to this podcast called Software Secrets. I was like, oh, sweet. And for 3 months, I mean, every time I mow the lawn or like fold clothes or whatever, lift, you know, anything, I would be listening to this podcast and they're like, all right, we got a crazy thing for you today. We're building our software and we're just documenting what's happening to us. We had a coder hold us hostage and we had to, you know, and they're telling this backstory. And then the next episode they're like, and I'm binging it because I feel like I have to catch up now. And they're documenting them building the software. And there's this little feature I remember in the top left, this one little feature was right there in the corner. And they're like, there was 3, 4 episodes about how hard it was to get that little feature. And I remember I got to the very end of that show mad that it wasn't live yet because I was totally sold and ready to go buy.. And then I remember I walked in and looked at your board and we were building. I was like, this is them? Are you kidding me? And I was like the first guy to buy.

They're building all the anticipation before.

Yeah, yeah. Include the audience in the launch. Yeah, yeah. Just like Hollywood.

So interesting that like, I feel like we all— the market got lazy. Yeah, a little bit. Literally because of Facebook ads. Yeah. It's like, I can flip a switch and people will show up. And it's like, that's getting harder and harder and more and more expensive and again, more and more noise. It's like, man, the people who can, who can engineer the stuff correctly ahead of time. Yeah. Uh, it, it's the, it's the key. And I started thinking about this, like, um, I was out visiting Andy Elliott yesterday, I think I told you, and I look at what their company's doing and it's like they're, they're posting 2 YouTube videos a day, 5 reels a day, all this kind of stuff. But they're not just like them, like sitting behind a desk, like, let me tell you 3 tips or whatever, you know? It's like, it's very, it's very like these little mini dramatic, little things they're doing to like get attention, to get you engaged, get you like, I want like, whatever that feeling I'm seeing, I want that, I need to feel that, I wanna feel that, you know what I mean? That's what they're just driving with over and over and over again. It's like, if we start looking at everything we're doing as producers, as content developers, whatever you wanna call yourself, a creator, it's just looking at like, how do we change this from scripted things to like experiences we're giving people? You know what I mean? Like we're in an experience age. Someone asked me the other day, they're like, information used to be the thing. In fact, when we bought Dan Kennedy's company, it was fascinating 'cause they gave me the newsletter they read every month for 20 years. They also had a CD of the month club. And people would pay an additional $97 to get a CD each month with an interview on it. And that was worth $97 a month back in the day, which is, that's a podcast interview now, right? There's no value in that anymore. And courses used to be better. And they asked me, what's the difference? If information's now free, like what's the next— it was the information age, what's the next thing? And I thought about, I think that there's two things. One is like, I think implementation's where money's at, helping implement the ideas. But number two is education and entertainment and like getting people involved. So it's like, if you stop looking at what you're doing as like, as anything else, like I'm trying to educate my audience, like no, no, no, no, you're trying to entertain your audience. Like that's why they stick, that's why they pay attention, that's why they get on board, that's how they fall in love with you, that's when they show up, that's when they buy your stuff. And the people that are winning today at the highest level in our markets that I study, that I geek out on, on. It's the, it's those who are, who are using this entertainment, engaging the audience, and that's the audience, right? Sucked into it, you know? So it's like thinking about through that lens. And that's why P.T. Barnum, little P.T. here, by the way, they call him the Greatest Showman, right? That's the thought. Like, how do you become the Greatest Showman in your market where you're— it's not just running ads. Like, if you just put up billboards telling people that the circus is in town, it would not have happened, right? Um, it's, it's him creating these things that, that make it bigger. I think that if we can all just look at through that lens a little differently, um, we're doing the same work. It's just how you are the frame your mind's going to as you're doing those things. That's, that's what makes a dramatic demonstration powerful, you know what I mean?

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Did you ever read a book called, um, it's by Daniel Pink called, I think it's Whole New Mind or something like that. It was one of my design classes in college. They had us read it and I've never forgotten his claim. His claim was that in the near future, because of tech and all this automation, so much of the left-brain activities of our life will be automated. Therefore, the future belongs solely to the right-brained thinkers. Isn't that interesting? Wow. The more creative people are really the ones who own the future because all of the rest of it is gonna be analog, automated.

But AI can't be, at least as AI is now, it's not creative, right?

AI is, yeah. Is you still have to be the input. You know what I mean?

Interesting.

And so like, I think that's what's powerful about it is like, okay, AI and all this stuff is so powerful, but you know, you, I was, I was trying to explain this to someone actually on my own podcast. I was like, hey, like, I love AI. It's, it's really powerful. It's a, it's a step in the creative process, but never has the final say in it. However, you know, if I go ask like ChatGPT, hey, what are the 10 steps to start a business? It'll load like 10 steps out. But what it can't do is give me personal experience. By the way, watch out for step 3. That one's a beast. When I executed it, it was, you know, so I think there's going to be, that's where it sits in. And I think that's where it overlaps with dramatic demonstrations is like, like, come with me while I show you my creative process, because the rest of the stuff is— the value of it's dropped. Yeah.

Yeah. So fascinating. All right, I want to talk about what we're doing. We have some cool stuff coming up. Uh, the long-term goal is— it's not here yet— we're making a book about dramatic demonstrations, which is going to be amazing, right? Like, and you've seen the COVID design, it looks so cool. Yeah, I'm excited for that, that book and everything about it. But to do a book— and those who may not know this, like, uh, I've written 3 books, working on book number 4 right now. Book number 1, I wrote the book book, hated it, deleted it, threw a 3-day event, taught the book, people went crazy. I made some shifts and then wrote the book and it became DotCom Secrets. Expert Secrets, I wrote the book, hated it, deleted it, threw a 3-day event, did the whole thing and then came back and then that became the book. Traffic Secrets, ah, I learned this time. I threw the event and then I wrote the book. Much simpler process. I probably need to do my Secrets to Success event. Maybe that's what I—

anyway. It might be.

Yeah, maybe that's the thing I'm missing. But for us, we're like, that's the plan. We're writing this book. We're going to do a 3-day event. Before the 3-day event, because— and obviously it's going to be fun. It's going to be in your office. I'm excited to do a full event there, which would be cool. And everyone should come to that. But prior to that, obviously we want to provide value first. So we're doing— I don't even know— we're doing our own dramatic demonstration to talk about dramatic demonstrations, get you to come to the dramatic demonstration events. So you'll buy the dramatic demonstration book eventually. But the first one's coming up. And I don't even know— by the time this podcast drops, it's probably in a week or two, or, you know, probably coming really soon. It may already happen and hopefully the replays are there. There's a free event coming up. You wanna talk about kind of what is gonna be happening on that event and why they should go register for free at dramaticdemonstrations.com?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, honestly, like, you know, I think this is a cool thing too that you've really been teaching everybody about also is you can go use things of the past, you know, to go be dramatic about it. So yeah, we're doing a 3-day event. It's all about, well, actually the first is the 3-hour. I'm getting mixed up.

3 hours free.

This is 3 hours. It's a free one. Yeah. Yeah. And we're gonna go through and teach out kind of a high level, really what all the dramatic demonstration, what it is. And then the next part is like really the copy. Like that's really where I think people get it messed up is again, they're acting like a salesperson when they should be marketer or they're acting like an entrepreneur when they should be acting like a marketer. And so it teaches those. And, uh, just like we teach though, it's the ramp up process to the next thing and then the next thing and then the next thing. Yeah.

It's been cool. And I think, uh, for those who were at Funnel Hacking Live, they saw our presentations, like we're actually gonna be showing those again for free, which is cool. So that'll give you guys, the context. The very first year we talked about, it was very deep into like, like launching Expert Secrets book and showing all that stuff. We talked about those kind of things and a bunch of other things, which was really cool. And for me, that was probably my favorite presentation I've given on stage. Like, I came off stage, I was like, that was so much fun. I was like, it was amazing. That was number one. And year number two, we switched more into the copy side of things. And so they're going to have a chance to watch both those presentations for free during this live event, which would be cool. The second one, like you say, we go more into copy and And there's a phrase that you use, which I think you nailed it with the phrase. Like, yeah, what's it called?

It's called the offer hook.

The offer hook. So you're going to learn about the offer hook, which is cool, which is something you knew you brought to my thought and my— and you have a couple of my businesses now. We were talking about potentially even do it today. We're out of time, but doing it today for one of my projects I'm working on. But it's a really cool process. And those who are coming to live event, you're actually going to be doing it for them.

It's one-on-one offer. One-on-ones. Yeah, one-on-one.

He'll build out your offer hook for you, which that's worth $20,000 just by itself. You learn about that during the free event as well. So both things happen. The free event's amazing. Just go watch it. And then here's the, here's the behind the scenes. We're going to pitch you to come to the event at the end of it. That's it. So either way, they get value and they should come to the event because the event will be amazing. It's going to be really small groups. I'm going to be a ton of people there. It's going to be you with the really small group of people going through it. And then the fact you're building people's offer hooks is worth buying a ticket just for that.

It's a lot of work, but I love doing it. It's always like, it feels like a jigsaw puzzle and like, ah, this is why you don't have leads anymore.

Yeah, it's really fascinating watching you do the process. You've done it for me twice. And just watching the way your brain goes. 'Cause for me it's like, first I'm like, why is he asking these questions? This is so weird. And all of a sudden like you pop like blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, what the, where did you pull that from? That is amazing. And so I'm hoping you're gonna, I know you're gonna be teaching how you do that framework, but I'm sure it's a hard thing to teach. So the fact that they're gonna have a chance in the 3-day to learn it, but then have you just do it for 'em is like, is gonna be special. So I'm excited for that. So man, I'm, I'm trying to think what else we need to cover. Dramatic demonstrations are fun though. It's like the thing that's number one in my mind right now is every campaign, every offer, every everything, I'm just like, how do we, what are all the big, for me it's like a webinar could be a dramatic demonstration, a challenge could be a dramatic demonstration, but videos are, ads are, so for me it's like, what are all the different things we're doing out there to really create the noise to get people to buy the offer we actually want them to do? And so I'm glad that we coined this phrase, 'cause at least for me personally now it's like, like that whole team's like, what are the dramatic demonstrations around this? Like, yes, we got tons. Like, let's start throwing out the ideas. And then that's when that's all the fun. We channel our inner mini PT Barnum.

Yeah.

You know, to be able to do that.

So, yeah. Yeah. You know, the, um, you were, remember there's a while ago you talked about, uh, you know, the who, not the how kind of a thing. I think we're about to go through that as a market because, um, the more I've talked about dramatic demonstrations, it's been interesting to see who, who is like drawn to it. Versus who's like, oh, and I think if people, you know, they watch or listen and like, I don't know that I'm really the person to go do that. That's okay. You know, find the who that is that's psyched about that. And I think there's going to be more of the, the true marketers to raise their hands coming up, you know, and like, I love that stuff. That'll be fun for sure.

You got to become a student of this game to be— yeah, it's the biggest thing I've learned last 20 years is like those who become obsessed with the marketing of their thing do way better than those who are obsessed with the thing, you know?

Yeah.

So be obsessed with both. Be obsessed with your product, the thing, but be more obsessed by the marketing because that's— if you really love the thing you're trying to sell, uh, you should be obsessed with the marketing of it because that's like, that's the fulfillment of the thing you, you created, right? Like, without, without that, like, there's no point in it. Like, you know, I mean, you create something no one knows about, then what's the point of you even creating it? Like, why did you do it? And if you really love the thing you create, like, you gotta become obsessed with the marketing because that's when you get to share the And that's when all the benefits of creation come. You get to see it work on other people, you see it change their lives, you see them have the ahas, you know? I remember listening to Ryan Holiday and he talked about how writing a book is such a private thing, right? Same with creating an offer or whatever, it's private, it's in your head. But then just sharing it was very public, which is why a lot of people get scared. For me, I remember writing the DotCom Secrets book, I killed myself, that was my first, like, in my mind, the first real art I'd created. You know, I'd done other stuff, courses and stuff. It was like, this was art for me. It was like, and it was so personal. I was so scared to share it with people. In fact, I remember I sent copies to a bunch of my friends. There's one friend who I, it's Rich Sheffron. He's like one of the most voracious readers I've ever met. And I was like, so scared for him to get it. 'Cause I'm like, this is my art. I don't wanna share it. And then we were at T&C and he came to me. He's like, dude, all these people said they got your book. Like, can you send 'em to me? I'm like, oh, what are you gonna say about it?

'Cause I'm scared of you.

Like, you're the one who could like, destroy my soul in like one like negative review. And I had one there and he's like, can I take it on the flight with me home? I was like, uh, yeah man. So he took it and I was just like, oh, what if he hates it? Like then— and it was crazy, he read the whole flight home and he finished on the flight and he texted me, he's like, bro, this is good, this is really good. I was like, oh, you know, I think that's the, the, the thing is most people are so scared of like, what if my thing's not good? But it's like, yeah man, like like, but then when I got that feedback, like, this is good, I was like, oh, like, so validating. Then I was like, I want to tell everybody in the world about it, you know what I mean?

That's how I feel about this book. Yeah, you're the receptionist, and I'm like, oh my gosh, this better be good. I know it's gonna be a good book, but I'm like, man, like, what if it sucks?

Yeah, oh, for sure.

Yeah, man, I definitely feel that pressure with it.

It's gonna be so fun though. I'm excited, man. It'll be great. You've— I mean, I know just watching you iterate on these frameworks of the last 2 years or so has been really cool to see, and I labor of love. But now it's like, it's simple and replicatable where people can actually use it. And I think that's the exciting thing. So yeah, yeah. And I think it'll be fun because we can share a bunch of stories from old dead people. I'm going to bring some of my favorites in as well, like some of my favorite marketers, or just watching what they've done, you know, reading what they did in the past is really, really cool. And then I'm going to bring a lot of case studies to the vet of just like what people are doing right now. I've been watching, I've been last 2 years, my eyes wide open watching everybody. So it's like, you know, I'll bring my swipe file of cool things people can look at and you can model in your business as well. So it's gonna be awesome. I am pumped for the event. Uh, so those again who are watching this or listening to this, wherever you are, go to dramaticdemonstrations— plural? No, plural. Plural. dramaticdemonstrations.com. Go register for the free event, 3-hour event. You get the 2— you'll be able to watch the 2 presentations from Funnel Hacking Live plus a bunch of other cool stuff. And that at the end, that will invite you to come to the, to the, um, live event, the workshop, if you're interested in come hang out with me and Steve in a really small room with, you know, a dozen or so people. It'll be intimate, it'll be fun.

It'll be intimate. Yeah.

You can't get that anywhere else. I don't do events like that anywhere else.

Yeah. I'm only going to do it one time too. It's like, it'll be fun. Yeah. It's going to be amazing. It'll be great.

I appreciate it, man. Excited to do this with you. It's going to be awesome. And dramatic demonstrations, everyone. That's the key. That's the next step in your business, your journey. Make some dramatic demonstrations. Come learn how to do it live with us. And if you enjoyed this podcast episode, Listening on my podcast, please rate and review. Let me know how you liked it. If you listen on Steve's, same thing. They should probably tell you how cool you are, and then go subscribe to his podcast if you're listening on mine, and vice versa.

Yep.

And I appreciate you guys listening. Any final words before we, before we bounce?

Just excited to have you guys. It's gonna be awesome. I really think this is gonna be the final thing that helps people get their lead flow back up where it should be.

Yeah, man. Anyway, appreciate you. Thanks so much, and see you guys all at the live event. Dramaticdemonstrations.com. Let's go.