Meet David Deighton

I am— I run the Big Man Fan Club. Hi everyone, we're live! We are live on Chatter Social. We're streaming live with Double D, David. David, I forgot to ask you how to pronounce your last name because I really don't know who you are.

Well, it's— there's different ways you can pronounce it. Deaton, Dayton, Dayton, any way you want. I'm gonna go with it. It's my wife's last name.

I love that. Oh, we have so much to talk about. So we're live, we're live on Chatter Social.

Hey, Big Man!

And then that kind of gives you an idea of what it looks like. Oh, big man, can you say hi?

Hey, what's going on? Uh, Adrian. Hey, David. Hey.

So big man, I don't know who David is, just an FYI. So I'm gonna— and then please ask any interruptions because I go— that's what I do. I go live and I have no clue. I know he's a double D.

Okay, I'm ready for whatever. Okay, okay.

So, so you took your wife's last name? We have to start there.

Well, I took my last session. I was living in France at the time. I had to get in to get my French ID, and I went over to the Gendarmerie, which was the national police. And then recently, people could choose whatever the last name they wanted to keep their maiden name or have their married name. And I'm like, I'm going to take my wife's last name and see what happens. And I went in and the guys in there were floored. They couldn't believe it. It was like, why would you take the name of your wife? It's the man that should be— the woman that should be taking the name. I was like, no, man, it's going to go the other way today. And that's what the law says. So I got my French ID and I took Deaton that day. I'm going to go with it. Yeah, why not?

Wait, why not?

Yeah, why not?

Go get some water.

The law goes only in one direction. I mean, that's ridiculous.

Crazy.

So I did it that way, and you know, it works really well because in English, uh, means, uh, to be born in a ditch. So I kind of like that.

Okay, so that's where I was going. I was thinking that it would make a lot of sense if you were like a serial killer. I'm the co-host of Debate the News True Crime. But if you were a serial killer, for all of you that are serial killers out there, take your wife's last name. Protect yourself.

She gets— she gets caught first. No, no, there's none of that going on.

So funny. So, okay, who are you? You were so funny, I have no clue. So you have to introduce yourself to the audience.

Uh, well, I, I'm a guy that took my wife's last name. Um, let's see, I'm, I'm an artist, um, and I used to go only be anonymous, never used my, my real name or whatever. And, uh, and then, uh After January 6th, I was like, oh, I gotta go out there in person and start talking directly to people and using my artwork as a political force because that's all I know how to do. So I started from that day on, I started talking directly with people in public and asking them political questions, like to do the taboo subject. You're never supposed to talk about politics with people. And I'm like, well, I'm gonna do it with strangers. And, uh, and we're— I'm gonna do it non-confrontationally and see where that takes me. So I've been going over the last 6 years to, uh, national parks, and, um, and I've been talking to the public, asking them 3 non-confrontational political questions, and, uh, and kind of finding ways to engage with people, talking about politics with people that you disagree with, you know, because I'm going to find people I agree with and people I disagree with, and finding Not something I agree with about facts or opinions, but finding some commonalities, finding ways for us to talk to one another without, uh, you know, going to each other's throats.

Hold on for one second. Hold on.

Yeah, go for it.

Do you think that we should bring David into, uh, Debate the News? Would you mind? Would you mind asking too, if that's okay? I'll, I'll text. Okay. Oh, you don't mind? That would be amazing.

So I have no idea what I'm getting into, but let's go for it.

That's exactly what we like. And this is— I think that would be really cool because I normally don't do political conversations, but I love Debate the News. And, uh, and Big Man, he's like— I just love this guy. Um, but we debate politics, right? So that's— so, and then you're— so we want to hear about like the questions you're asking, what you're finding on the street. So while Big Man is going to come in, it'll just take me— literally, it'll just take me a second to reset everything up. I just have to, um, I got all the time we need.

I love it.

This could be really exciting. So you are in an artist town because Santa Fe— did you ever think of Tubac?

I know, didn't think it's too bad. I thought of, well, when we moved from Europe to the US, to play somewhere between Austin, Texas and San Diego, California. And we ended up here.

Oh, that makes sense. So Austin also is young and art, but Santa Fe, I mean, colors, the beauty of it, the mountains. Oh yeah, I'm a huge, huge fan. Nuala just came in the room. Nuala, do you wanna come up? Big Man's asking too if we can go into the room to bring in Double D, David Dayton, who took his wife's name. Nula, how cool! He took his wife's last name. How cool is that? Nula came in, she's sitting in there.

Yeah, I like Nula. Hey Nula, what did—

what did 2 say?

I didn't—

I just texted him. I don't know, he didn't respond. I just texted him. Oh, well, what's right now?

Are they having a big conversation in the room?

I don't know, I haven't been in there.

Should I breathe?

I saw—

I was seeing your room. Your room was first one.

I clicked on it.

Yes.

Okay, I'm gonna bring you in. Okay, so let me, um, just gonna take me a second to think for a minute. Okay, I'm going to— Okay, wait, so I gotta— I have to— I'm gonna— I'm gonna close this out and then just stay where you are, David.

Do not move.

I don't—

just don't move anything. Just grab another drink. Grab the vodka and I'll see you in a minute.

I'm right here. I'm not gonna move.

Stay right there.

Oh, back.

Stay right there. Okay. Thank you so much. This is gonna be exciting. Okay, Chatter Studio. Oh my God, I'm really excited. Nula, the reason we're doing this is that he— on January 6th, which right away I was like, why January 6th? But now I get it. Wait, so I gotta join a room and I don't want to join someone else's room and get in trouble, get kicked off the app, her per our friend DTN is winning the war. Okay, this is gonna be so much fun.

Okay, you kept saying the Iranian people when he was talking about what was going on in the war. I even told Jonathan about that. He's like, for real?

You know what I'm saying? Let me, let me go ahead and break something.

Let me finish this real quick.

He's been I can't hear anyone now. Oh, I can't hear you, Adrian. Adrienne. Adrienne Baker. Barker. I can't hear you. No can hear. Turn me back on. It looks like you're on mute. Whatever it is, fix it. I could hear you before, but I can't hear you now. I had something to write with, I would say, I can't hear you. I can't hear you.

Okay, you can hear me now, right, David?

Oh, I can hear you.

Okay, and can you guys hear David in the room? I want to make sure. David, hold on, just let me get this. I have to just do this correctly. And yeah, we can hear you. Okay, but I gotta just set up his, um, I gotta just set him up for a minute. So, so just bear with me for a second. Just gonna take a second. Just all the cables have to be done.

Take this off. I feel a bit formal. Can't hear you. I can see your mouth move, but I can't—

Okay, there we go. David, you can hear me now, right?

Yes, I can.

Can you hear me now?

I can hear you now.

Yes.

Yes.

Okay, but I can't hear you. Okay, so speak, David, so we can hear you.

I am talking.

Uh, sorry, you guys, I'm sorry, I don't mean to ruin the conversation.

We initially, we initially heard him at first, and then— yeah, we heard him at first.

Okay, okay, okay, thank you.

All right, let me just double-check everything here.

That's probably my end. Let me look at chat or social, make sure I got everything correct. Let me just see here. Mama's sweating. Okay, Cable A, you're—

you are sorry, um, Queen.

You guys, I just feel awful. Settings. But I feel like this will be a really good conversation. Speaker B, effects.

It's all right, Adrian. I was gonna fry too anyway. You gave them something.

I'm glad. I wouldn't want that to happen. That would bother me. All right, and then the microphone is open. And then I'm going to go back. Can you hear me now, David?

Yeah, I can hear you all the time. Okay, hold on.

I heard, uh, cable A. Oh, that's why I have it wrong. Okay, I had the wrong—

that's it.

Yeah, I was singing the machias, but now I can't hear you anymore, Adrian. I could hear you, but now I can't hear you. It's— you got to take all those cables and plug them in and put them in the right spot. Put them over here. And do this, but I cannot hear you. I cannot hear you. I could before, but not anymore. And I still can't hear you. I don't know if you're the tech queen anymore. I can't hear you. Your mouth is moving, but I can't hear you. No, now your image is frozen as well. Hmm, this is interesting. I'm going to breathe out. Are you there? Allons enfants de la patrie, le jour de gloire est arrivé. Délivre-nous de la tyrannie. I'm just singing so that, you know, you can hear my voice when you do.

Yeah, they're both unmuted. Wait, StreamYard still keeps messing me up, so that's probably it. Cable A. And then is there anything else I do? And then click on microphone to unmute StreamYard. Yeah, you should hear me now. Oh, you can hear me. And you can— and David, speak so that everyone can hear you.

Yes, I can hear you. No, can you hear me?

Nope, we can't hear you still, David.

Okay, shoot.

What should I do? It on the same, um, same— should I just open it up on my— the same browser as I have StreamYard, or no? No, because it's going two different ways. You can't— you shouldn't do that. So what do you think? I just had it. Okay, all right guys, I don't—

I'm more minutes. Yeah, yeah, take it, take it. Yeah, he's definitely somebody you guys want to talk to.

Cable B, and then this is Cable A, so I've got it right. Um, oh God, hold on guys, I'm so sorry. Yeah, I get very nervous. I don't— I, I'm that person, I don't like to keep people waiting. Oh yeah, for some reason Chatter keeps, um, defaulting every time I leave it. So let me do it one more time.

Well, now, now, right there, it's gone. Can't hear you anymore. Can't hear you. You just cut me out, so I don't know. Can't hear you. Let me see if there's a video. Take one of these pieces of paper. And write down. It'll be like a, I can't hear you. I can't hear you. Not hearing anyone. Anyway, you'll come back. My friend Christian, which— who you remind me of, Adrian, would certainly not be able to get this far. So I can't hear you. Okay, that's her finger up, like, hold on a second.

Cable B, and then yes, cable— oh, I think you can hear me right now. Can you hear me?

I can. Yes, I can. Can you hear me?

We are good.

We hear him.

Yay!

Yay! I can hear you too.

All right, I'm hiding because I'm sweating and I'm gonna take off my clothes right now. Okay, so you guys meet Double D David. I have no clue who he is, but he's cool looking, right? And I call him Double D because I like boobs, so that works out well for me. Anybody that has like a double name. Okay, so David, start and tell everyone what you do. And this is— you are in Debate the News, and the question for this room is winning the— is United States of America winning the war? And when you told me that your art and going on the streets and talking politics, I thought, oh, here are 31 people right now in this room that you can share with us what you're hearing, the sentiment. So take it away, David.

Wow, winning the war? Which, which one? I'm gonna do the war.

Is the United States winning the war?

Yeah. How about— I mean, how about winning the war against political polarization regardless of where we're at? We'll talk about that war because I don't think we're going to win the other ones. I'm sorry, guys, but yeah. So my deal is I've been going out to talk to strangers and, and engage with people. Out on the streets and national parks with art installations. And I'm engaging with strangers, asking them to talk about politics non-confrontationally with one another without an argument. Yeah, without arguing. It's good to have an argument, but without arguing. Yeah, I've been doing it for 6 years. Works out pretty— been working pretty well. I haven't had an argument yet with someone. I've had people cry. I've had people share all their thoughts and emotions. But, you know, it's been pretty interesting journey where I get to meet new people and practice listening to people and being conscious of myself. Trying to tune in and go on the taboo subject of politics with people and offer them the opportunity to do the same with others. So I'll take me from Yellowstone to the Grand Canyon and, and just have these impromptu meetings where I discuss with, with, with people, not political issues, but very just broad, broad items and give them the opportunity to say what they have to say. And my job is not to get— yeah, it's pretty dark. My thing is not getting triggered by what I hear because I hear a lot of crazy stuff that doesn't quite agree with me. But I try to be there and not react too heavily and to give the people the space they need in order to say what they have to say, because often we don't have that opportunity. We usually just express our opinions to the people that are friends people that we're familiar with or the people that we agree with. My, my art experiment is how does that work with people you disagree with? Hence, I'm on lots of podcasts recently as well because it gives me the opportunity to talk with people of different political backgrounds.

Let's get into it. Come on, because everything's going to change right now.

Things are going to change.

You're going to have your first argument, your first debate. So you're on the street right now. You literally are on the street. You're on the chatter street. You got 30 people. You got some that are amazing. We have, we have heroes in here. We have veterans. We have Positive. Are you here? Positive will start a fight with you so fast you won't even know. So ask the first question so we can see. So what question would you ask this group of people here? And we're both sides of the fence.

Well, I always use the same 3 questions, so it's going to be easy. So the first one is, how would you describe the political system of the United States of America?

Who's gonna take it?

How would you describe the political system of the United States of America? It's not a trick question, it's whatever you want to say, whatever. Go for it.

Hey, a quick question for you, are we being recorded or, um, yes, you're live.

Oh, you're live.

All right, thank you.

You're— I'm multi-streaming it live, so, uh, but you don't have to say your name or who you are, and I won't say your name if you want to be anonymous. Who's going to take it away? Is Jonathan in the room too?

Are you, are you talking about, um, the current political system in the United States?

Well, that isn't my second question, but the first one is, you know, how would you describe the political system of the United States of America?

Current or just overall is what I was trying to get to.

Well, the—

I think he's just talking about the system that we use.

I'll tell you what the second question is so that you'll see how it goes in the context of the three questions. The second one is, how would you describe the— how would you describe your feelings or reactions to the current state of US— I'm getting all confused. How would you describe your feelings or reactions to the current state of US politics? That's the second question. So that talks about a sense of currency. The first question is where you just describe the political system of the United States. Just describe it.

Okay. No, no, I respect our political system. I respect the outcome of it. And I think it's one of the greatest systems in the world.

Anybody else want to answer it?

I think we are extremely polarized.

Anybody else? I think we're corrupt. So I've never done so many people, but it's interesting. It's interesting. Usually this is like a one-on-one deal, but that's all very interesting. Anybody else?

Yes, my name is Big Man. I think we are the greatest country in the world.

And— but how would you describe the political system of the United States of America?

Untouchable.

Bipartisan. Bipartisan. Yeah, that's cool. Let's go for the second question. You know, uh, describe your feelings or reactions to the current state of U.S. politics.

The laughingstock of the world. Hot mess.

Scary.

I think we have one of the greatest presidents that ever served this country, and I think, uh, our president's doing an amazing job.

Proud. Yeah, that's a feeling or reality, right? Cautious. Yeah, cautious. Yeah, I'm sure there's a lot more words we can share out there.

Let's participate, y'all. Engage, engage.

Let's go.

Yeah, go ahead, DeWall. I'll say it's polarizing, very concerning.

All valid. It's how we, you know, it's how we personally feel about it and how we react to it, right? That's what we're putting out there for other people to hear, right? Um, I'll go to the third question. I, I mean, I've asked hundreds and hundreds of people these, always the same three questions, and I invite other people to use these same questions with others. The last one's like a game where you finish the sentence. Politics. So you finish the sentence: politics in the United States And then you fill it in. Politics in the United States is corrupt.

Is corrupt. Is corrupt.

Is corrupt. Yeah, we got that. Is corrupt. Anybody else?

Is amazing.

I would—

is amazing.

I would say that politics in the United States are exhausting.

Exhausting. Are exhausting in a plural, like it's are. I would say the politics in the United States is racist. Is racist. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Volatile.

Volatile. Is volatile.

Is a mess. Again, politics in America is a mess.

Is a mess. I think a lot of these things are resonating with a lot of people, right, as well. Like these words, they They're like, oh, I could have used that word too, maybe, you know, did they kind of fit in there, right? I've got one. I'll go for it.

Divided. Very divided.

Well, I hear that one a lot. Yeah, yeah, divided. It's divided. Yeah, politics in the United States is divided, is racist, isn't this? Yeah, all those things. Yeah, go for it.

It's not, it's not perfect, but it's the closest model of democracy.

Jesus Christ.

What? Confusing.

Hmm. I have— regardless if you're on left or right, I think it feels confusing. Yeah, right. Yeah, I think that resonates with a lot of people. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Anything else out there? Well, the point, like, here, like, what happens after I get I interview somebody out in a national park, let's say, and they give me the responses, right? Like you did, big man. You got all 3 in there. Boom. Then we find like one word that brings it in all together. Like, that's kind of like the final thing because you went through this process, right? At the first, you're like, you described how to describe the political system of the United States. Then you described your feelings and reactions about the political system in the United States. And then you finish like this game, you did like these 3 different things, you kind of moved along. At the end, you got to put like one word that ties it in all together, the word that you want to put out there. If you only had one word on the subject that you want to put out there, what would it be? And you could repeat the word that you said before if that's the one that resonates the most. Okay, my name's Jay, and I would put Trump. I say Trump. Trump's the word. Okay. Multilayered. Multilayered. I'm sure we got a lot more words out there. No. And these were nuts.

Diverse.

Diverse. Yeah, yeah. Corrupt. Corrupt.

Yeah.

What was that?

Oh, what was that? No, Mula.

Self-serving. Self-serving. Mhm. Mhm. Right. It's kind of like a patchwork. We got all these words. I mean, you know, it's like a patchwork about all these different ways that we we feel about things, right? The one word that can encapsulate it all, right? You know what happens, like, when I ask these— when I ask these questions, I'm— all I'm doing is just listening, right? So that's why I'd never have a confrontation, because I'm trying to just be present, to listen, to give people the space to say what they have to say. Well, maybe we should ask you some questions. Maybe we should start asking you some questions. Yeah, yeah, sure, for sure. Sure, go for it. Oh, you ready for that? Okay, okay, let's, let's talk about how you got your name. Like, like, like, let's tell where you come from, man. Okay, so I'm, I'm, uh, I'm American-born, raised in, in France. I've been between the two places all the time. Just got back from France two days ago, uh, back in the US now, uh, so I'm kind of like this bi-national between the two. I see both political systems. I see the American side and I see the European side. Vote in both elections. That's legally possible for me. So I get to vote on both sides. I vote— interestingly enough, my ideas are the same regardless if I'm in the US or in France. However, the political system is so far to the right. In, in the U.S. that I'm voting like on the left here, but the left here is like the right wing over there. So I'm voting right wing while I'm in France, right? Like center right. And over here it'd be center left because things are so skewed in America towards the right, um, that, that's where I lean, uh, politically. I'm an artist, a lifetime artist, and I've been doing anonymous art for most of my life, hiding behind different artist names so I didn't have to expose myself. You know, it's just like, you know, you're buying the painting, so who do you need to know really who I am, right? You can just imagine what you want for the painting. But when you're doing something like a conceptual art piece, where I'm engaging with strangers on political questions. You got to be there in person. It's got to be in person because if you're online, that's where the outrage is. People get upset online all the time because you have this veil, right? You can hide behind something. So I put— I expose myself. I put myself out there in a safe environment. I got to say, national parks, that's pretty safe, right? People are pretty chill, you know, doing it in the streets when somebody is on the way to work. It's not a good time to ask somebody political questions. You know, they're busy. You got to find the right space and time to have these conversations. Like, we're, we're all here together because we're in that right frame of mind, right? We're, we're ready to have a conversation. You got to catch people at the right time. So that's why I do it in the, in these, in these areas. And that's, that's what my current project is about. And, and the words like you gave me, like, it could be racist and polarized and all these words. I use those words in pieces of artwork because they're kind of like a big patchwork, a quilt, if you want, of— and actually there's quilts that have been made with the words, with hundreds of words that people have given me. And you don't really know if they're on the left or on the right because they're not based on like fact or opinion. As much as like emotions, right? Of course, we say polarized, I guess there's an element of political opinion in that, but often it's like, yeah, you know, it's about anger and divisiveness and all this stuff. And that's where we can connect. My goal is looking for ways for us to connect beyond our political divides, to fight political polarization. So to do that, It's usually in the form of emotions, and that's, that's a place we can all talk about without getting all pissed off at one another. Has been my experience.

This room likes to get all mad at each other. No, wait, tell everyone first about, um, taking, you know, your last name, and then—

oh, you want to know that? I just went off on a tangent. My last name, I use my, I use my wife's last name, um, Just because I wanted to make a political point to when I went to the police department to get my French ID and have the— they were issuing new French IDs at the time. Got married with my wife. You could choose your spouse's last name and it went both ways, but hardly any guys were doing it. It was expected that women would take their husband's last name. And I went in, in a very rural part of the country where people don't break the rules. The rule is you take the guy's last name. So I went in and I said, no, I want my wife's last name. And just to see kind of what happened. And I like my wife's last name, means born in a ditch. I mean, where do you get that one? That is fantastic. I was like, okay, that's not very French at all. Um, as a name, you know, it's an English name. Uh, so I did that. That was fun. And then they have all my IDs with the new name in it. And, uh, it's easier for my daughter too that we all have the last name.

I love it, David. All right, so let's have—

let's—

because I— because I know that there's questions, and I love that Big Man wanted to take the lead and asking some questions, but everyone can't. And then, because I know that we want to know what people are actually thinking out on the street, but Big Man, go for it if you want to ask some questions of David.

Well, this is the street, isn't it, in a sense? Yeah. Okay.

Yeah, well, this is a stream.

No, no, y'all go ahead. I just wanted to, you know, start it somewhere. Yeah, but we should ask him. We should ask him a few questions, man. Yeah, I'll start then.

What is like— what is— what are people saying to you? Are they expressing the same emotions that you just heard from us in DTN, Debate the News, or are they saying other things? Are they positive or negative?

Yeah. So one of the things that surprised me over the years, okay, I thought first of all that we'd be getting in yelling arguments, but by the fact that I'm just listening, asking always the same questions and listening in, giving people the space to talk and not get triggered myself by what they say, arguments are not happening. But the commonality that I'm finding is, uh, the word hope comes up a lot and not because it's an Obama thing or whatever, like left or right, people are hoping that things are going to get better. They have this like positivity bias that they think things will get better because of the nature of the country we live in, the possibilities that are in front of us that can bring us with greater cohesion. And, and that was a big surprise. The word divisive comes up a lot because I asked that final word. And so I can see this bit of a pattern that comes up of which words come up the most. There's a few cuss words that come up that are— the F word comes up a lot because it's kind of open for all. And so that comes up as a common word. And through that, it gives me a bit of an idea of where— so this is the idea that things— that they have a hope that things can get better, but they don't know how. Uh, yeah, but things are divided. They, they see that there's a political divide, um, and things are being polarized, um, more and more so. They, they, they can point their finger at, uh, and it's usually not at the other, their political opponent, as much as like systematic problems of how the news addresses things, being on social media. They realize those things, but they're back online just scrolling and putting likes and getting all outraged. They It's hard to get out of that. And they know that it's going to be done in person, but it's hard work and it's painful, so they don't want to do it.

What do the French think of us? What— what is— truthfully, you were over there, we're in the war in the Iran. What, what do the French think of us?

Hmm. You know, interesting enough, I was in the south of France and there's a— there's the rise of, of the neo-Nazi party, of the National Rally. Of Le Pen that could win at the next elections very close. I think they're even more than in the US, the rise of neo-Nazi movements and authoritarianism, the possibility is there. It's being expressed here for me, I can see it clearly more than I can in France, but it's coming close to the next election. So there's a lot of people that come outside, they're pro-Trump, they're Trumpists. They say, "Je suis Trumpiste," they would say.

And it's like, "Oh, that's interesting." Can I ask a quick question real quick?

Sure.

I just want to make sure you heard me correctly.

We're spitfire here, David. Spitfire. So everyone is fast. So go ahead, too.

Yeah, just a quick question. I want to make sure I heard you correctly. You said the rise in the neo-Nazi parties and they support Trump, the neo-Nazi people?

Oh, absolutely. Oh, they're about— yeah. Steve Bannon, the word— yeah, the movements of the Vox movement. In Spain, Le Farge in the UK. I mean, the populist movements across Europe, which are strongly tied to the neo-Nazis in Europe, are uniting together to pull apart the European Union and also to get rid of Arabs, get rid of all the immigrants, get them out of here. Pure race theory, all this stuff. Yeah, it's big.

Do you find that very telling, the type of people that support him there and here? It's like the same kind of people.

So I think that the word anger is important because once again, that's where the commonality is, is how the emotional aspect versus facts, uh, and opinion, right? Uh, the word anger is, is, is one that transcends from either side. So if you're talking, there's a lot more political parties that are available to vote for. For example, in France, they just had municipal elections for mayor just at the last Sunday. On the first round elections, we vote twice. The first time to just everybody vote for everybody, and then there's two, there's a final two, and then you put those two against one another. And so we have everything from like 5 different communist parties to everything to the far right with different maybe Nazi sympathizers to the center. And the word anger comes up a lot. People are angry on either side. And that's one thing that they share, I hear a lot. Yeah.

I mean, when I was saying it seems like there's, it seems like there's three groups, like neo-Nazi groups, and you got the white supremacist groups over here that support Trump. Seem like that's something that they have in common. I don't know if they're hearing a dog whistle from him, but it seems like, you know, we know for sure all Trump supporters are not racist. We know that, right? But all racists are Trump supporters for some reason. And that's kind of telling. I don't know if it's, you know, it's just telling to me. And it was interesting that you said the neo-Nazi groups over there support Trump.

Yeah, I find it kind of blows me away because I never heard that before, that people would identify with a certain American president. And they, you know, they say things like he says it the way it is and it's the way that they're thinking. And they only take one side of the message, the one that appeals most to them, which is usually— I mean, I was talking to my mother's neighbor. We were in the elevator together and my mother lives on the 8th floor. We're going, you know, it gives you a few seconds to talk and I see him regularly. He knows I live in the US and, and, and, you know, he's just told me how, how, how proud he is of the US and that, and of Trump, and hoping that they'd finally get somebody here that would get rid of the Jews and, and, and all the Arabs. And, you know, I don't want to, you know, that triggers me, triggers me big.

I'm not sleeping tonight now. What the hell?

Yeah, it's weird. But I got to go by going online. I know by going online that they're seeing like the same outrage stuff and the memes and all that stuff to go with it. And it's kind of the same stuff that you get here in the United States, kind of polarize you, pull you in another direction. Yeah, it's, it's—

has a question, please. Yeah.

Um, how you doing, David? Um, I'm doing all right. You know, I'm good. Uh, I'm born, uh, United States, but my family culture, uh, Persian, Iranian. Um, 1978 Revolution, uh, you know all about that. And, um, my question to you is, uh, you You said France, right? That's where you're at, or that's where you go from. Yeah. So, um, the Ayatollah Khomeini lived in France, um, before he walked, uh, into Iran. Um, he came down Air France, and a lot of Iranians criticized France for allowing him to, uh, live there for so long and pass out his propaganda tapes from France to Iran, um, against the Shah. Right? And, and France was very mum about that for a long time, quiet about it. Then the revolution happened. So a lot of Iranians in Iran and exiled out of Iran always throw France in there as one of the countries that kind of stayed on the quiet side to allow what happened to the Shah to, to happen. And the revolution— not to blame France for the revolution of Iran, but even throughout the years, France has always been quiet when it comes to the genocide that's happening inside Iran, especially the last, uh, month. 50,000 people died. France didn't say a thing. Uh, never France came out to put that IRGC on the terrorist list. Uh, with what's happening in the US and having a president that has some steel balls to go into Iran right now, and the actual Iranian people in Iran that want change are actually cheering for him, uh, screaming out his name and cheering the jets that are flying, blowing up their country but they're so happy that this genocide is going to be over eventually and this regime hopefully can fall. What are the French saying over there and what do they think?

So I don't know. I only— that on that issue, I haven't had any conversations to have. Oh, I guess I have that, you know, among my family, it's like What's going on? Where did this war come from? I mean, we're just talking people that watch the news every day, some retirees, they're just watching the news and wait, they're questioning where the war came from.

I mean, they didn't know what was happening in Iran all these 47 years, right?

Yeah. Just like a common person not knowing. They know that. There's an authoritarian regime there, that there's oppression, that nuclear bombs are being developed and all these things. They know that it's whatever's going on in the news, right? They're not experts on the subject. They probably don't even have any friends or relatives that are Persian, for example. So I don't really have an answer to what the French think.

No, you don't have to say.

Just my own.

Yeah, it sounds like the ostrich with its head in the sand. Stand, but I appreciate it.

Yeah, just, you know, not a lack of knowledge, it's just the one that is given by, you know, by national TV. So they're following the events very closely.

Well, you would think it would be more— you would think there would be a lot of information if you allowed the Ayatollah to stay in your country, live there peacefully, and pass out his propaganda for so many years. You would think the French people would know a little bit more politics when it comes to the Iranian regime.

But then we had, you know, France, uh, as a republic had so many— like, they can— I think at the time, didn't they consider him like being a political refugee at the time? And that's why they had him there, uh, by, by law. There's tons of like despots and things that— well, he was living on the French—

yeah, yeah, he was exiled out of Iran from the Shah. He went and lived in, uh, Karaj, uh, Iraq for 10 more years. Saddam wanted to knock him off and asked the Shah if he to kill him, and the Shah told him no. So he ran away and went to France, and France allowed him to live there peacefully and pass out his propaganda for a long time in a small town near, uh, I forget the town, but it was a small—

yeah, I don't know the story, but thanks for sharing that. I mean, just, you know, it's hard information out there. It matters now. Yeah, right.

Because if you're going—

it didn't matter like 2 weeks ago.

Yeah, right.

Because if you're going into the national park— I mean, to the parks and talking to people and getting their opinions about politics, This is one of the major issues right now. You should definitely be updated before you ask questions.

Yeah, for sure, for sure. And I haven't had an opportunity— I've been out of the country for, for several months now, so, uh, I'm looking forward— my next trip is going to be Mount Rushmore, uh, and so I hope at that time, you know, uh, but, but the thing is, is that all I'm doing is asking questions and listening and being actively listening and working on So it's not the— people say what they have to say. Um, I'm not contradicting them in any way. I'm just trying to be present because—

no, you're not, but you gotta, you gotta educate yourself.

Yeah, for sure.

So you understand what they're saying to you, because other than that, it just sounds like a bunch of gibberish.

Um, Gilead, are you there?

I am.

Do you have the news?

Which part would you like?

I'm just thinking, David, you know, we have Gilead, a veteran who gives us the news at 9 PM on what's taking place, and let's, let's have you do a news report. Is that okay?

Sure.

I mean, I'll— I can give you the quick headlines. So The capital of Riyadh was hit pretty hard today with missiles and drones. The Pars gas field was bombed by Israel. There are two regime people in Iran that were eliminated, Esmail Khatib who was the minister of intelligence. He was in charge of the mass arrests and the protester executions that happened in January. Also Hassan Ali Marwan, who is a Quds Force commander. And I listened to Malcolm Nance this morning, and he says they are speculating there are 18,000 capable drones left in Iran, which is a lower figure than I had before. So that was very interesting. So, so that's kind of the summary for Iran in the last few hours.

Thanks, Gillian. I appreciate that. So does anyone else have anything? I thought it was really cool to bring you in. This is— we're on Chatter Social Live, and this is Debate the News. The question of the room one is the USA winning the war. And David, if you guys have any other questions, any thoughts— I, I thought it was really interesting that, David, that you could vote both in France and in the United States, and you can participate in both votes.

Only in, only in, uh, presidential elections in France. All foreign, uh, foreign residents, uh, so as a French citizen living abroad, we can vote for the presidential elections and as well for our senators that represent us abroad. So we have senators— uh, no, sorry, representatives. We have representatives that represent us abroad. So we have a representative for North America.

And Chad, were you in the room when David was discussing about the neo-Nazis? The neo— what did you say? Were you— did you hear that chat?

No, I missed it. Hello, David.

Hello.

Thank you.

How you doing?

I'm doing all right. Thank you.

I'm just a little Southern woman from Texas. Oh, uh, have y'all— I'm also an Army veteran. Have y'all talked about Kent's— the Joe Kent, his resignation?

Oh no, we haven't talked about that. Yes.

What are your thoughts about that? No, I just— I mean, I mean, y'all know what happened. Like, Trump is like, yeah, he had a problem, he wasn't good with, with intel. I'm like, bro, like, you literally like nominated him for this position. So like, how is he now? Now all of a sudden he's not good because he resigned. So what are your thoughts on his resignation?

Okay, so I was sharing earlier that I would be in the US like center-left, and in France I'm center-right, right? So I'm pleased by a resignation. I hope it is part of a whole stream of them, of different members of the cabinet that decide to step down, maybe because when they decided to go with the Trump administration to agree to the appointment It was because of Trump's promises of no more wars. And here we are. I was in Colombia at the moment when Americans took out Nicolás Maduro. You know, they were— boom, we were there. And now we're in Iran. And now we're talking about Cuba. Interventions left, right, and center while we don't talk about the Trump-Epstein files anymore. And that's, that's for me, oh wow, there we are.

Hear about the neo-Nazi, let's chat here then, because that just scared the crappers out of me.

Well, that's been going on for decades. It's nothing really, there's nothing for me, nothing really new. It's what's new is the rise of how younger people with very little historical perspective are embracing the messages of racial exclusion, of a strong nationalism of France first before all nations, of not a Brexit but a Frexit, and the interlinking of populist movements across Europe is is a very strong one between Italy and Germany and Spain, France, and the UK, and the Dutch as well, organizing themselves for a takeover in the European Parliament followed by our national elections. Yeah, it's frightening. It's only when you speak to older people that have experienced the Second World War or their children that of the age of their parents who experienced the war that know that the cohesion of the European Union is how we've stayed out of conflict over the last 70 years. But it seems like a young— a lot of young people are ready to jump back in again. And here we are. But it's to me, when I'm living in the US and from France, I see so many similarities. In the words that are used, the, the, the online fabric of, of the comments that are being made, talking to people. Yeah, it's scary as hell.

Can you go into more details on that? Like, like, do you have any examples?

And do you think incels have— are like amping this up too? Because I think the incel, the Andrew Tates and all that, like it's a feed It feeds into those different factions.

Oh, I'm lost. What are you talking about? Incel.

Incel. Involuntarily celibate. In America, the archetype, like most of the school shootings that have happened, have been from men, young men with that ideology. Women are bad, men are good. Basically, that's pretty much what it's about.

Right, right, right.

You know what I mean? And so there's this thing. It's been happening, right? It's taken over. But literally, the archetype of a school shooter is that. And my understanding is that is— that feeds— that's one of the ways that it feeds into those neo-Nazi movements. It fed into January 6th, the QAnons, all of that. It feeds into those larger factions when they're younger.

Right, so, you know, school shootings, we have maybe stabbings, but, you know, we don't have access to guns in most of Europe the way we can in the US, so school shootings are kind of out. I mean, they happen and they get out in the press, but it's not a regular occurrence. But the young men finding the appeal of misogynistic feed online exists as well in France, but it's rather the political platforms that seem to be similar of like policy versus how younger people express their sexual views on gender or the role of women and all those things. That doesn't seem to be really the case or as prevalent in the discourse in France as it is in the US. I mean, it's rising. I mean, you gotta think like France is behind the US in so many ways. Ever since I was a kid, they had blue jeans in America and you get 'em in America, you had Levi's and stuff, even from fashion. those things take a while. Things are a lot faster and happening much faster now thanks to social media. So the things that are being fed as part of the attention that we put into— in the US, those are the ones that you see in Europe like a few weeks later, a month later. I do see that. But I'm 57. I don't meet many young people anymore, so I don't have that direct experience. And the people that I interview and I interact with are mostly Americans here in the US. So I think I'm out of touch when it comes to knowing really what French young people are thinking, honestly, because otherwise I'm getting my information not firsthand, but from media reports. And so it's secondhand source. It's from whatever I read rather than whatever I experience personally. I think it's important to have a personal experience in order to form my opinions. Yeah, and I'm sure you do too. But, you know, where do we find these people? And it's difficult. We got to get out there and speak to people and have those exchanges with strangers that we don't know, have those in-person communication in order to find— in order to share what we have to share, to hear what they have to share. Find commonalities. Um, yeah, that's important. I'm lacking that, I must admit, for friends. Yeah, you know, and create art. Oh yeah, that's what I do. Yeah.

Anyone else have any other questions? Would it be cool to have a DTN art, like, with everyone's, you know, positive words? Like, well, they weren't really positive. Anyone else have anything they want to share?

Questions?

Anything you want to ask? Otherwise, what was it called?

The in— incepts? What was it? Was it the— what was the term that was used? Incel.

Incel.

I-N-C-E-L.

Okay, I'm gonna look that up. She knows all about it.

Daddy's married. But I do think that like social media algorithms actually feed— like these bot farms and stuff like that, like they feed in um, the psyche, right? Um, they feed into those different factions. You, you, you see those, um, ideologies, like they keep being reintroduced and reinforced by their algorithm. So you're sitting there for an hour reading, you know, getting clips about why neo-Nazism is good, right? Like, it's like, how did you get that? But then there'll be a bunch of clips for freaking hours that'll tell you why, like, or why Hitler was amazing, you know, like, like, and they're literally people that will make up things, especially in the age of AI, right, will make up videos and things like that. And I'm not saying one side does it and one side doesn't, right? I think the left and the right does it to some extent, but it feeds into things that keep us separate. I think they want to keep us divided. There, I bet there's little algorithms that are introduced that bring us together. The point of them to me, for a lot of the, especially those platforms, is to keep us separated. So I think social media can also do, has done a lot of damage.

What do you think?

I think you are spot on. You're spot on. I appreciate your group as well. You all coming together is, is an action that we that citizens can take to counter that type of narrative, to have conversations, to listen in to others, to hear what they have to say, and to share ideas. That's the strongest power that we have. I think it's one that we can exercise at any time as well. Like the 3 questions I was using earlier is just one example of something we could— we have to wait till it's time to vote. We should vote. But it doesn't happen often enough. Every week we could take the opportunity to engage with strangers, hear out what they have to say, and maybe if they ask you questions, to answer and take the opportunities to do so. And honestly, in person, it's a lot stronger than it can be online, although we see each other's faces here in our unprompted voices. But when we're face to face and we have all of the all of our senses are engaged, including smell and taste and touch and all that. When we're— that is super strong. That has a great political force. And we can take that in order to bridge our political divides and, and, and, and kind of break apart the polarization that we have in this country. So I really appreciate what you, what you guys are doing. Thank you for having me on. I appreciate that. I hope you have many, many conversations and go out and speak to lots of other strangers. That's the one that they can't tear down, right? Whoever they is, you know, whoever we consider they to be. But the algorithm has, you know, they want to sell our attention span, our Googling in and eyeing into what and to messaging and to advertising. How much— my point is, is like, we should be spending an equal amount of time, trying to spend an equal amount of time online and offline. And offline is engaging with other people. And I'm sure most of us don't get that opportunity. And then imprompted conversations with people offline. We need to get back out there and have those conversations. And there's not many places to do that. But whenever the, even if the grocery store, if you, you know, when you're waiting in line, that might be the, that might be your chance.

Hi, I'm Adrian. I'm a commodity. People sell and buy my eyes and the things that I look at, my email, my mind, my brain. Gas in Paris, $7 a gallon. Is that, is that, has your senior gas price go up?

It was about €2, yeah, €2 a liter. Uh, this is higher than that now.

Yeah, so it's going up. Yeah, so ours too. All right, anyone else?

I can go farther in that car though. I'm gonna show her what—

David's gonna talk to you right now.

Well, I'm just gonna make— what we should all do, this is what we should all do. Look, you see this, right? Watch, watch, touch grass. See, we need to go outside, touch grass, and realize the world's not on fire. Get off social media. Touch some grass.

You guys, you got a lot of weeds there.

I know, man. Look at that.

Touch the grass, smoke the grass. Okay, it's all about the grass. Okay, thank you so much. I won't take any more of your time or the room's time.

Real quick, real quick, Adrian, real quick. Uh, David, I wasn't coming at you directly personally, so I hope you didn't take it that way. I apologize if it felt that way, but I was just asking you questions about You know, I just want to feel the weather in France when it comes to the Iranian situation. But I appreciate your time here, and I hope you didn't take it the right way— I mean, the wrong way. Take it the right way. Come in next time. Totally good.

No, no, I appreciate, I, I appreciate you, man. I really do. Uh, that, that's okay. We should know more about other things, but can we take it all in? That's the hard thing, right? There's so much out there, and for you, it's— you're vested. I mean, you're, you're from there as well. You got the connection.

Absolutely.

Uh, and it's happening. It's, it's got to be tough. So we're thinking about, about you and we hope everything goes out well.

Thank you, David.

And the quicker the better. Yeah, whatever the outcome is, the fewer people die, the better.

Yeah, appreciate you. Thank you.

So you're gonna download Chatter Social, David?

Yeah, Chatter Social.

Come in, come in to debate the news when you're on the road. Come in and report to us. You could be our 3-question reporter on the parks, in the parks. That'd be awesome, right? We all need that, a national park reporter on politics. I love it. All right, you guys good? I'm gonna close out. I will leave the room. David, you won't hear me. I'll just take me— actually, I'm just gonna stop the live stream. Whoever listens to the live stream is going to think I am crazy nuts. But, um, David, don't forget to give me a