Dr. Claudia Six: Intimacy, Sex & The Deeper Truth About Relationships

Welcome to the Legacy All Stars podcast. We feature inspirational stories from people who dedicate themselves to helping others. Here is your host, Alan Pavloski.

All right, hello, everybody, and welcome back to the Legacy All Stars podcast where we celebrate inspirational people making a difference in the lives of others. Today's guest is Dr. Claudia Six. Dr. Six is a clinical sexologist, author, and speaker with over 30 years of experience helping individuals and couples navigate sexual and relationship challenges. Dr. Six was born and raised in Paris. Claudia brings a global perspective to her work and a candid, compassionate approach to addressing even the most sensitive topics. She is the author of award winning book Erotic how to Be True to Yourself Sexually. She is also a sought after media commentator and TEDx speaker. In this episode, we sit down with Dr. Claudia Six to explore the intersection of sexuality, relationships, and living authentically. From her early life in Paris to her career as a clinical sexologist, Claudia shares her journey, insights, and the deeply human stories behind her work. The conversation should go way beyond the bedroom, looking at how intimacy, self awareness, and communication shape every aspect of our lives. Dr. Six, welcome to the show. It's great to see you.

Hi, Ellen. Thanks for having me.

Yeah, it's my pleasure. Let's jump right in. You were born and raised in Paris in a culture with fewer taboos about sexuality. How has that shaped your perspective on relationships and intimacy?

Well, the first thing is that my parents were probably trying to save themselves by themselves some time and figured that in terms of sex ed, they were going to wait until I asked questions. And I asked a lot of questions at a very early age because by the time I was five years old, I had all the information. I hadn't asked about the clitoris, but I knew everything else. I knew how to make babies. And so, you know, I think they were a little embarrassed by my questions. They got a bit more than they bargained for, but I had all the information. So that's one piece that, you know, may not be something that happens in America much. And the other piece is that, you know, growing up in Paris, in a big city, you know, I would take the metro with my parents and I would see transgender people and I would see sex workers and I would see homosexuals. And they were just part of the human landscape. I mean, they were there and I probably asked questions, but it wasn't a big thing. They were just sort of out in general population. And so, you know, they were never different. They were just sort of part of humanity. And at an early age, I knew that there were people who were A little bit different than you might expect.

Yeah, for sure. Can you share a moment or experience that led you to become a clinical.

Sexologist a little later in life? Well, in high school, I was a late bloomer. I'm a late bloomer on everything. I do everything later than everybody. But in high school, though, I had no actual hands on experience. I was the one giving my friends advice. So, like when I was, you know, 15, 16, my friends were riding on the back of motorcycles and some of them were getting abortions. But I was the one saying, look, you know, don't do anything you don't want to do. Make sure you're also having pleasure. And it's not just for him. Make sure you're on birth control. So they were coming to me for advice because I had all the information. And then later on in college, I had a friend who had a lot of sort of relationship turmoil. And at the time I was a ski bum in Aspen. And in the off season, she and I were talking a lot on the phone. And one day she said, God, Claudia, you always make me feel so much better. You always say the right thing. You should be a sex therapist. And we both chuckled and hung up the phone. And I thought, well, it's kind of controversial. It's kind of misunderstood, frankly. It's a topic I've always been comfortable with, and there's not a lot of people doing it. That actually works for my personality and who I am. And so those are sort of pivotal moments that sort of kind of put me on the path of becoming a sex therapist.

Light bulb moment, huh?

Yeah.

Yeah, that's great. You often say that it's never about sex. It's about the bigger picture of how we show up in the world. Can you elaborate on that?

Yes. It's never about sex as my tagline, because I always find myself saying this. Sex doesn't operate in a vacuum. The way that we are in bed or on the couch or the dining room table or wherever you're doing it is not any different than how you show up in the world. So, for example, if you are someone who believes that you have no voice, you're going to have no voice in the world and you're going to have no voice in bed. When you have no voice in bed, you don't ask for what you need, and you're probably not going to have a very good time and you're not going to be in a big hurry to do it again. If out in the world you have a faulty belief about there's no room for my needs or I'll be left, you know, I'm going to be abandoned. And so you don't take up a lot of space, you're not going to take up a lot of space in bed and you're not going to be a partner who fully shows up for their mate. And so again, that's another example of how it's never about sex. It's about how people show up in the world, how they feel about themselves, the beliefs they have about themselves, what they think they're worthy of, what they think they deserve. Doesn't that help?

It's interesting. It does help. Before I go to the next question, I wanted to kind of jump into a technique kind of discussion. How do you break down the barriers with people that are sensitive and or inhibited? What are the techniques that you use to help break down those barriers to allow them to feel comfortable with your work?

Well, one of the first things I do is I do a detailed history. So most therapists do history kind of in little bits and pieces over a period of a month. I do one big download history. I do 90 minute sessions and I do a session that is childhood history, family history, relationship history, sexual history. And I'm looking for patterns, I'm looking for self defeating behaviors, but I'm also looking for faulty beliefs. And there's like 10 or 12 of them, all variations on the theme of I'm not good enough. So that's where I start. And once people start to see how their faulty belief shows up and all the ways that it shows up in their lives and all the ways that it makes decisions for them, that's a place that I start because that usually informs some of the difficulties they're having sexually and relationship wise. That's how I start.

Yeah, I imagine that it's really rewarding to see the barriers break down though with people as you're getting through that process.

Yeah. People ask me, you know, how would you describe your work? And I say, I help people come from the best in themselves because they want more for themselves. It's a privilege.

Yeah, for sure. What are some of the most common challenges you see in couples and how do they connect to life stages such as parenting, empty nesting, menopause, et cetera?

The biggest challenge that I see is disconnection. People are disconnected. Either they were never really connected and they just sort of like bumbled along for whatever reason and sort of pulled it off. And then at some point they don't anymore. You know, they get sober or their Kids leave home or, you know, sort of midlife crisis happens or their infidelity happens and upsets the apple card, and then they sort of see things in a different way. But the biggest challenge I see is disconnection. And no matter what people come in with, they're usually disconnected because if they weren't, they wouldn't need to talk to me. They would figure out how to handle the issue. So that's the biggest one.

Got it. You work with people all over the world. Have you noticed cultural differences in how people approach intimacy and sexual challenges?

You know, people have been asking me this question, sort of a sociological question, for many years, and I have to say no. I mean, I see people in Europe and Canada and the U.S. sometimes, you know, Caribbean, sometimes South America. No. People want to be seen. People want to be received. People want to be loved. People don't want to be rejected, People don't want to be hurt. I can't say there's any huge differences. When people are in pain, they're just in pain no matter where they live in the world. And people want a sense of hope.

How do you help clients feel disconnected, rekindle desire and connection? Give me an example of that.

Well, it's a big topic, and I recently did a TEDx on that, as you mentioned a few minutes ago. You know, the three sort of like main populations I work with are menopausal couples where her libido has tanked and he is still a vibrant sexual being. And where does that leave them? Couples with young kids because sex begets children and children are the death of sex. And they haven't had sex since the birth of the last child, which might have been 5, 10, 15 years ago. And empty nesters, like, they've sort of been on automatic pilot and now the kids are gone and they have to figure out, wow, so like, now what, do we rebuild this relationship that we've neglected, or do we call it quits and kind of start over with new people? So how I address couples sexual issues, it's kind of a house. So if you think of like the several different floors on the house and the bottom floor might be unresolved trauma and trauma expert Dr. Gabor Mate says that trauma is not so much bad things that happen to us. It can be good things that should have happened but didn't. So for example, if a mother had postpartum depression and wasn't able to bond fully with her child, that child might develop into an anxious attachment style. So that's one is unexamined Trauma, It's a big topic. Another floor in the house might be ineffective communication skills. You know, the you always do this and you never do that, and the blaming, which is not helpful. And we might talk more about communication. Another topic is faulty beliefs. Like I said earlier, I have no voice or I'm not valued, or I'm not desirable, or I will always be left. These are beliefs that start in infancy. It's how the infant makes sense of their experience. And these beliefs start often in a pre verbal stage while the infant is making sense of their experience. And then we take these beliefs out into life and we manifest circumstances that confirm these beliefs that we have about ourselves. There's trauma, communication, faulty beliefs. There's another one I'm blanking on right now. Oh, there's erotic integrity, the title of my book. We might talk more about erotic integrity. And then if you think about the different floors on a house, I work through these floors. And then at the very tippy top, we might talk about sex. Sex might be, you know, a few tiles on the roof. And sex might just be sort of the mechanics of who's doing what, when, in what order might be that simple. Or it might be the meaning of sexual. Often couples get twisted up because the meaning of sex changes for them. So that's a long answer to your question.

It's a great answer though. Thank you. I appreciate the detail. Earlier we talked about that. You work with people all over the world. How do you work with them? Is it a remote session or is it any kind of your work in person sessions? Or is it all remote?

You know, since COVID it's all remote. Before that I would do some phone sessions for people who were in the barrier and then moved somewhere else. But now it's mostly remote. I mean, if people feel really strongly about it, I can meet people in person, at least for a few sessions to sort of get a sense of each other. But yeah, it's mostly teletherapy at this point. And people find that more convenient, frankly. I mean, for one thing, the cats and dogs in the house always want to be wherever the people are. And they kind of feel the energy of the session and so they kind of settle in. And people like to be on their couch or at their dining room table. And it's convenient and it's comfortable and it doesn't feel as vulnerable. And then you'll have to sit in traffic. So. Yeah, that's true.

Is it all video remote or is it phone remote?

No, nowadays it's all video.

Yeah, I would think that would give you a better connection to the client also and better ability to really dive deeply into what they're really feeling rather than what they're just saying.

Yeah, and I can see. I mean, I have them on my big screen, but, like, if their jaw is tight or if their chin is quivering or if their eyes start to water, you know, I can see. And if they're kind of bouncy and fidgeting, or if they're not breathing, I can see all that. And when Covid happened and everything went online, I researched the effectiveness of teletherapy versus in person, and apparently it's just as effective.

Yeah, that's great. We talked about this earlier on a different conversation. But you also specialize in working with people on the autism spectrum. How does this influence your approach to therapy?

Well, it influences my approach to people who are on the autism spectrum therapy. At the time, it was called Asperger. Now the diagnostic and statistical manual puts it all under the category of autism spectrum disorder, which in my opinion is confusing for people. But 18 years ago, I had my first Asperger client, and I was stumped. And I consulted all the big wigs in the field, you know, the people I knew, my mentors, the people who wrote the book. And I'm like, what is going on with this guy? Nobody had any answers. And eventually I figured it out. And I have people in my family who are on the autism spectrum. So it's something I know well, and I know it in my gut when I'm in the presence of it. And the thing is, they kind of get a bad rap sometimes. They get misdiagnosed with something else. Often they get diagnosed when their kids are having difficulty, and then their kids get diagnosed, and then they're like, oh, well, you know what? All this kind of applies to me too. But the thing is, people on the autism spectrum disorder, you know, here in the Bay Area, Silicon Valley, wouldn't exist if it weren't for people on the spectrum disorder. There's all these really, really bright minds. Their minds are very, you know, sort of logical and kind of mechanical. There's a lot of doctors, lawyers, accountants. The women tend to be personal organizers. But people on the spectrum have a silver lining. They tell the truth. So if you say, you know, does this dress make my butt look big? They're going to tell you. They don't lie, they don't manipulate, they're not deceitful, they tend to not leave. They tend to stay in relationship. They're not leavers. And they're also, they tend to be even keel. So while their partner can have emotional highs and lows, the person on the spectrum is even keel. And those actually, there's a beauty in that because they balance each other out. So, yeah, they're quirky, they need a lot of time to themselves. They have odd hobbies, they miss facial cues and auditory cues. So if you have a baby and your partner is on the spectrum, it's going to be a lot of work because you got to train your partner. But they generally have goodwill. So that's just an aside on people on the autism spectrum disorder.

Well, let me ask you a related question about younger parents with kids, and how do you help them balance their spousal relationship while also giving the best of themselves to their children?

You know, there are some cultural issues that come up there because I'm French, it's like, American parents don't tend to close their bedroom door. American parents don't tend to close their bedroom door. Kids have easy access to the parental bedroom and the parental space. So couples are telling me, well, we can't have sex until our kids are asleep. And they don't go to sleep till like 9, 10, 11 o' clock at night. And I'm like, put your kids to bed earlier. Close your bedroom door, tell them you're having mommy and daddy time. And unless the house is on fire or somebody's bleeding to not come in the bedroom, put a lock on your bedroom door. That's one of the first things I tell people. And I also tell them no TV in the bedroom, because that's the death of sex. You know, there's a payoff when a couple has managed to not have sex for years on end and channel all their affective energy into their kids. There's a payoff. There's something they're avoiding. And my style is very direct in a very compassionate way. But I look at like, what's the payoff? You know, what's the payoff of not engaging your partner sexually? You know, you don't have to be vulnerable. You don't have to make the effort to get present. You can just zone out. You know, maybe there's stuff you don't want to talk about. Maybe you have a long laundry list of resentments that you've never brought up and you can't just pretend that everything's fine and have sex with them when you've got this long laundry list of grievances that you don't want to bring up because you don't want to Rock the boat. So it's easier to just kind of like keep things status quo. So, yeah, I kind of confront people.

In your book Erotic Integrity, you talk about being true to yourself sexually. What does that look like in practice?

Well, it starts with really knowing who you are as a sexual being. And so, you know, for years people said, oh, you know, your work is so interesting, you should write a book. And I was like, well, you know, people have been having sex for a long time. I haven't invented anything. You know, if I come up with something new, you know, I'll write a book. And then I realized that I had this lens in my mind when working with clients, which was erotic integrity. And I often never even use those words. But one of the first things I'm doing, apart from all the stuff I've already told you about, because I'm working on multiple levels, is figuring out who somebody is as an erotic being. Because there's a lot of suffering that comes from people trying to be the way they think they're supposed to be. You know, hetero, vanilla, monogamous, missionary. But there's so much more variety to who people are. And so I try to unpack that with them. I mean, one simple example is, you know, maybe somebody's bisexual and they just never really gave themselves permission. Maybe they had some bisexual experiences in college and then they thought, okay, well, that was fun, but that's not okay. So I'm not going to do that anymore. I'm not even going to think about it. But actually it's part of who they are. And so part of erotic integrity is understanding who you are. It's accepting who you are and figuring out how you're going to have that fit into your life in a way that works. You know, maybe you're non monogamous or, you know, maybe you're a little Dom and you just haven't really given yourself permission to be dominant. And so it's not always, you know, crazy stuff. It's just sort of like subtleties in our sexuality that we haven't given ourselves permission for. So those are the three steps to erotic integrity.

You know, I talk with other guests of this show a lot about authenticity. And I mean, what it comes down to really is whether you're really authentically accepting who you are as an individual. Do you find that that's congruent with how you approach things?

Yeah, I mean, authenticity is key to so much, but people are afraid of being rejected. People don't necessarily give themselves permission to really be authentic. And maybe Being authentic is speaking your mind and ruffling some feathers. And maybe being authentic is bringing up a grievance or being having a conflict about something, and all these things people don't necessarily feel permission for. And this is another cultural thing. In France, people are more, you know, letting it all hang out and then it blows over. So I'm not saying that people in the US Aren't authentic, but, you know, self acceptance is key to erotic integrity. It's key to how people show up in the world, and it's key to having a good time in bed. Because if you're not being authentic, the other person doesn't really know who's there with them.

Yeah. All right, let's talk about the C word. What role does communication play in creating a fulfilling sexual relationship?

You know, if I had a dollar for every time over the last 35 years that somebody has called me and said, oh, we got communication problem. Couples always communicate. You know, if you're sitting there with your arms crossed and you're rolling your eyes, you're communicating. So people are always communicating. They just often don't like the communication that they're getting. So that's the first thing I start with. And communication, you know, there's active listening. You know, you don't listen for what you're going to say next. You listen to what the other person is communicating. So active listening is like when the person stops, you wait to see if they're done, and then you say, okay, what I heard you say is this. Do I have this? You take turns. You make I statements. You talk about yourself. You don't presume to know what's going on with the other person or what they're thinking or feeling. You stay on your side of the fence and talk about what's happening for you. You don't make accusations, you don't blame, you don't defend. That's sort of the basics of communication. And then reading between the lines, people in America do a lot of indirect communication. Like, I'm cold. I'm cold. Might mean, gee, you know, can I borrow your sweater? Or do you mind if we go sit in the sun? Or it means, you know, I would like for us to do something about it to change the fact that I'm cold. But people don't say, hey, can I borrow your sweater? Or can we sit in the sun? They just say, I'm cold. Okay, well, what are you communicating? And so, because indirect communication is such a part of the culture, part of communication is really understanding what the other person Is trying to say not expecting the other person to read your mind. Because that happens a lot too, right?

For sure. Well, for those who feel stuck or dissatisfied in their relationship, what can you tell them is the best first step toward change?

Best first step, I would say, is getting clear about what you want. Even if you don't think it's possible, you don't know how to get there. Be clear about what it is that you want and not, oh, I want my partner to change. I want my partner to read my mind. I want my partner to make it easier for me by being this way or that way or always initiating sex so that I don't have to be vulnerable. It's like, what do you want in your relationship? And then if people can go there, I would say the second step is asking yourself how you might have contributed to the stuckness that you're experiencing. Because people get stuck and they don't know how to get unstuck. But both people contribute. I always tell people, nobody's broken and nobody needs to be fixed. And it's never one person gumming up the works. It's always about the dynamic between two people. Because those faulty beliefs I mentioned earlier, they play a part. Like if one person's faulty belief is I need freedom, and the other person's faulty belief is I'm going to be left. You can see how those two people, one person's going to want freedom and the other person's going to be like, wait, if you take freedom, I'm going to be left. And then, you know, that's a whole dynamic and you're off to the races.

You know, it strikes me what I really love about your approach, candidly, is that, you know, you talk about it not being about sex and it really isn't. It's about being healthy in a relationship and positive sexual experiences then come along with that. And I really have taken from our conversation that that's the biggest takeaway for me is that something that you feel like is appropriate as a big takeaway.

Yeah, it is. It's never about sex. And a lot of communication is non verbal and energetic. It's attuning like you and I during this interview, but we're attuning energetically to each other. That's part of what happens in bed. And so that's also part of communication. So, yes, you're right on, Alan.

Well, how do people reach you if they want to hear more about your services and how to get ahold of you?

My website is drsix.net doctor net not spelled out. Drsix.net and you can see my blog. You can see my TED Talks are there. You can sign up for my newsletter, which comes out once a week on a Thursday. I post on LinkedIn, Substack, and Medium every Thursday. I don't have staff. Nobody is going to see your name. I don't sell to anybody on mailing lists or anything. So yeah, Dr.6.net is where you'll find me. Or just Google Claudia 6, PhD. I'm the only one.

Sounds great. Well, we have come to the end of the episode. I want to thank my distinguished guest, Dr. Claudia Six, for sharing her wisdom with us. I'm Alan Pavloski, signing off for Legacy All Stars.