In this second half of a two‑part interview on the Legacy All Stars podcast, host Alan Pavlosky and leadership expert J. Israel Green explore how leaders can intentionally shape culture, trust, and lasting legacy through daily presence. Green shares concrete inclusion habits—such as asking “whose voice is missing,” rotating airtime, and owning mistakes publicly—then explains how inclusion ties to the “triple bottom line” of profit, cost‑savings, and operational efficiency. He outlines a five‑step assessment framework that begins with listening to frontline workers, quantifies the business impact of equity, and offers ongoing partnership beyond one‑off workshops. The conversation moves to authority, where Green advocates role‑clarity exercises that define ownership and decision rights, reducing the need for micromanagement. He describes courageous leadership as sitting in discomfort, admitting “I don’t know,” and balancing boundaries with relationships—a concept he calls “grown‑folk leadership.” The dialogue turns to legacy, emphasizing that lasting impact is built not in grand moments but through countless small interactions that teach safety, reward, love, and risk, shaping culture over time. Green recommends two immediate shifts for leaders: extend listening by 5 % (about five seconds) without defending, and evaluate success by how people feel after leaving the room rather than by personal validation. The episode closes with Green’s contact information (israelgreen.com and mosaicworx.com) and a reminder of the importance of keeping one’s word and name.
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Welcome to the Legacy All Stars podcast. We feature inspirational stories from people who dedicate themselves to helping others. Here is your host, Alan Pavloski.
Hello, it's Alan Pavloski from Legacy All Stars. This is part two of a special two part episode with J. Israel Green. I really enjoyed this conversation. I hope you all enjoy it. Here you go. Yeah. How can leaders model inclusion daily? What is there a daily practice they can do to model that?
Something as simple as asking whose voice is missing. You know, rotating the airtime in meetings. I always like to tell leaders to. If you are going to a meeting and you typically just already have their idea formulated because they feel like they have to have the answer, so they go into this meeting and they puke their opinion all over everyone and then say, you know, don't you all agree? And you know, that's not the way that it should be done. You know, I always recommend going last in those situations and asking advice from everyone at the table, especially those that may typically be more quiet, but credit ideas accurately. You know, personalize, connect and support. And a big one is when you mess up, you own it. You know, you talked about you mess up publicly. Own it publicly.
Yeah.
Nothing builds credibility faster than a leader who can say, you know what, I missed that. My bad. And for me, credibility is the currency of a leader.
Yeah, makes sense. I'm not done with inclusion yet because I think it's important that we just, as you know, I believe in people should have the right to make money, we should be allowed to be capitalists and we should still do good while doing well. And so my question for you is, can you show me some examples or corroborate my belief that embodying inclusion in your organization makes your organization better and makes your organization stronger and makes you a better company. How does that look from your perspective?
I believe that if you hit a certain point in your life, we have a social responsibility to give back and, you know, in some capacity, in some way, shape, fashion or form, whether that be mentoring, whether that be volunteering your time, different things, it could be giving money just depending on, you know, what's important. But I think it shows up in a way that where we demonstrate what Banne Get Human is all about. And the more that we can do that, especially in companies where people spend 50, 60, 70 hours of their work week or of their week period with these individuals, they are taking that piece of what they identify with home with them and out into the communities. So if we can demonstrate that in the company and in the organization, the likelihood of it bleeding outside of the organization is going to be very high.
You know, we didn't talk about this in advance, but I want to throw this out there and ask you if you can help me understand how you would come into an organization and help people understand the cost benefit analysis of incorporating inclusion in their business. And how does your process look like when you help people with this?
Great question. One of the biggest things that we have to do is help leaders be able to connect the dots in terms of what I describe as that triple bottom line. And you know, as a CEO, as a cfo, as a coo, there are three things you're looking for. How does it make us money, how does it save us money? And how does it increase operational efficiency? And unfortunately, many practitioners and many leaders are unable to connect the dots because this is such a nebulous topic. What does inclusion feel like? What does belonging feel like? What are those actions? What is equity? And because there's such disparity on how things are defined, there's disparity on a belief that, okay, is this fair? Is it not fair? So we come in and we really do a full blown assessment on the front side. And we've got a five step process that we adhere to every single time. And it doesn't guarantee us success, but it does increase the likelihood of us being successful in those environments when we follow this. But that very first piece is really assessing the landscape and making sure that we understand what the problem actually is. And the best way to do that is if you want to know how a company is doing, ask the people that are doing the work. That's really where the inequities are going to be magnified. And then from that we're able to tie it back to, okay, if we're able to correct these things, then this is what it can mean for your productivity. This is what it could mean for your retaining talent. This is what it could mean for your going into these untapped markets where you've got now have representatives of the markets that you're serving. So we're able to tie it back in a business case that all of a sudden, once again going back to hey, bring us that data. They now understand it in a way that they didn't before. And then we don't just create this one off workshop scenario. We put together true strategy and programming and we give you the option we can walk alongside of you. You know, here's what discovered. We can walk alongside of you as you implement these things. We can do it for you, or you can just, you know, reach out to us on occasion. But that's really kind of how we show up as a business partner with those clients, more so than just a consultant, where we do the one and done and we leave you. Because we do believe that it is about that connection. It is about understanding, you know, how you do business, who you do it for, and in what way do you do business. And we look at the entirety of the framework, which is internal, that foundational piece, the leadership, the structure, the vision. We talk about, you know, how do we make this sustainable. We look at the internal piece, you know, how do we raise up our employees to make them better stewards of in society? And then the external piece, who are we trying to serve and how do we broaden that reach so that the impact is greater for everyone? And we remove this belief that if one person is helped, that means you lose something else over here. That's not at all what equity is. And I think people have this misnomer that that is how it shows up in business. And if this person gets an advancement, then I'm not going to get my piece of the pie. And they look at it totally wrong.
Yes. Which leads to a polarized society, unfortunately. And again, I don't get into politics on this show. It's not about what side of the aisle you're from. It's about whether you embrace bringing everybody along with you. And I think that's crucial in what you've been talking about. So that's great. Yeah. In regard to authority, boundaries, and connection, how do leaders maintain authority without control?
The first thing I believe is that you have to think about what authority is for you and for me. It isn't about tightening the grip by any means. It's about setting clear lanes. And people don't need micromanagement. They just need clarity. And one of the first things we do with teams is a role clarity exercise where leaders and the employees and we always start at the top. We believe everything rises and falls on leadership. So we start at the top, and basically we get very explicit. And we go through this whole exercise where we look at job recs and we bump it up against these role clarity documents that we have. And we get explicit about ownership, the decision rights, where the handoffs actually need to be happening, how much and what percentage of time are in each of these areas, and where it actually should be. And then we bump that up against with the employee that's doing the work to say, all right, hey, here's what we have tell us how accurate or how true this is, and they may come back and say, you know what? Nope, I spend 70% of the time here versus 50% is what you're calling it. And I know that something needs to fall off of my list here, and we help them kind of navigate that. But when people know what's theirs to own and what's not, they don't have to hover. The leaders don't, you know, they all automatically. It's clear to them what they need to execute on. And that clarity reduces the friction. And when the expectations are clear, the connection gets easier. So I think that's really where people need to start.
What does courage look like when leaders are challenged?
Earlier I mentioned being able to sit in discomfort. I think that's one piece of what courage looks like, is not being afraid to take the step out and say, I don't know. And to put yourself in some areas where you're not well versed and navigate that. And the other is courage stand open when you want to shut down. It's holding the boundary and the relationship at the same time. And those two things can coexist if you know how to navigate it. And that's what I like to call grown folk leadership. You know, feel your feelings, just don't lead with them. So being able to balance those two things, the boundaries in the relationship and being able to walk that fine line.
Yeah, Well, I discuss legacy on every episode of this show. Why isn't Legacy built? Only in big moments.
Alan, it's so funny you mentioned legacy. This is a conversation I've been having with myself. I talk to myself a lot, and I sit on the board for an organization and, you know, occasionally I'll reach out to the individuals that sit on the board with me. And I've been thinking about legacy and I don't know what has brought me to this point, you know, and how we show up. And most people, when I think about the impact that I'm trying to make out there, most people won't remember the keynote that I did or, you know, what I was wearing during the keynote, but they will remember how I treated them when things didn't go as planned. They'll remember how, you know, I treated them when they're tired or they're frustrated. You know, as I think about this, I once watched an interview and there was AN Admiral Bill McRaven who was a special ops commander for the Navy, or he was. He's retired now.
Yeah.
And, you know, not politics, but he Was talking with former President Obama about a speech that he gave after military operation. And what stayed with him is it wasn't the speech, but it was during the interview on several different occasions when the admiral was talking and explaining this to President Obama. He says, you know, hey, something that stuck out with me and resonated with me and you could hear his voice crack as he shared this with the President. He says that you stayed afterward and you shook the hand of every single service member and there was nearly 800 of them. And those are the moments. And you know, to hear this admiral, his voice cracking because this moment was so special to watch, you know, when he could have been a million and one other places. But that's what people carry with them. That legacy isn't built in those grand moments. It's built in the accumulation of those small choices. Repeat it consistently. And that's what's important to remember. It's not the one thing that you do, it's how you show up in those small moments.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Yeah, I have a follow up to that though. How do daily choices shape long term impact?
For me, I firmly believe that every single interaction teaches people something. It teaches people, you know, maybe what's safe. It teaches people what's rewarded. It teaches people how you love, how you receive love, and it teaches people what's risky. And over time those lessons become the culture themselves. And that's how legacy sneaks up on you is those one moments at a time. There is a book called Change the Culture, Change the Game. And it talks about experiences, you know, that are created by the actions. And all of a sudden these create this belief and that's what creates the culture. And in order to change the culture, you gotta change those experiences every single time that you can. And that's done through the actions and that's what shifts the beliefs to create, you know, to stop this culture that you don't want to be in or that you're not trying to build but you've been rewarding, you know, maybe unbeknownst to you, but all of a sudden you're trying to create a different culture. And that's what you need to do is change those unique experiences.
Yeah, I have another book that reminds me of that concept and there's a book called the Compound Effect that I read years ago. And the Compound Effect was all about the daily actions and how they accumulate over time and how difficult it is to reverse course when you've been performing those daily rituals and those daily actions Each day. And the result that comes from that, whether unintended or intended, is definitely hard to change the trajectory of what you've been doing. But if you can start from that day that you decide you're going to change and one day at a time, just change one thing and create one new habit that's positive, then that compound effect also works to your favor in that same regard.
Yeah. It reminds me, Alan, you mentioned that you were in sports and just the mechanics of how you swing a bat, how you throw, when you're in the water, you know, you're swimming, all of these things. And what's required to change that, the mechanics and the makeup of that. Because it's a muscle, it just builds on each other.
Yeah, for sure. I want to talk about one other important thing. Can you talk about one intentional shift leaders can make that they should make today instead of waiting till tomorrow.
I'll share two things with you.
Good, good. Please do.
And these are things that I'm actively working on myself because they're shaping how I want to show up in the legacy that I want to leave. The first thing is around, and this isn't profound at all. So please don't think this is going to be some, some, you know, silver bullet moment.
Doesn't have to be profound to be wise. Let it rip.
All right, cool. It's quite basic, but listen, listen, listen. 5% longer than what feels comfortable. So 5% longer, 5 seconds longer. And don't fix, you know, don't defend, don't perform. Just listen and then say thank you. That's often the moment when people finally feel safe enough to tell the truth. And then second is, if there's one shift I'd ask leaders to make tomorrow, it's to stop asking, thinking, oh, you know, hey, how did I show up today and looking for that validation and really start to ask, how did people feel after I left the room? Because leadership isn't, you know, what you intend. It's what people carry with them. And when leaders realize that, you know, they're shaping nervous systems, not just strategies, everything changes. And, you know, the truth is, years from now, no one's going to remember how fast you answered emails, but they will remember whether they felt seen with you, they felt safe, they felt respected in your presence. And that's the kind of leadership that I believe outlives your title.
Yeah. Wow, that's a mouthful. Before we end, I want people to know how they can get a hold of you, how they can reach you if they want to engage your services or if they just want to reach out to you.
Yep, absolutely. So we've got a website. We've got two, in fact. One is for our keynote thought leadership. And that's just my name. That's israelgreen.com and that's israel g r e e n e dot com. And then our company website is mosaicworks.com and works is spelled with an X on the end. So W O R X. And I'm always happy to connect on LinkedIn and always open to having conversations just about being a good human, about leadership and connecting. And so if anyone ever reaches out, I always answer those emails.
Yeah, that's great. Also, remember, for those who heard that, because I accidentally made this mistake when I sent Israel a message that I left the E off the end of his name. So make sure you spell his name correctly.
It's so funny, Alan, because I always say that I only have two things that I'm taking to the grave with me, and that's my word and my name. So I got to make sure I'm true to both.
Yeah, most definitely. And I know people that with both spellings, so I just. I'm apologizing publicly, even though I didn't make the mistake publicly.
Thank you.
Yeah, no doubt. Well, is we've come to the end of the time together. I really want to thank you for sharing your wisdom. I want to thank Jisreal Green or is for coming on the show today to share that he has reminded us that leadership isn't about what you build. It's about who you become while building it. Legacy isn't written in moments of applause, but in moments of presence, connection, and courage. Culture has shaped one intentional moment at a time. I hope you enjoyed today's episode. Don't forget to subscribe to the show and be notified of all new episodes. I'm Alan Pavloski signing off for Legacy All Stars.
