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Welcome to the Legacy All Stars Podcast. We feature inspirational stories from people who dedicate themselves to helping others. Here is your host, Alan Pavlowski.

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Legacy All Stars Podcast, where we shine a light on extraordinary people who are building a legacy through leadership, service, and impact. I'm your host, Alan Pavlowski, and I'm thrilled to present an amazing guest today. My guest today is Greg Lavoie, bestselling author, TEDx speaker, and one of the most influential voices in global leadership development. Greg is the founder of Westwood International, a firm that's transformed leadership teams around the world. And he is the visionary behind Hope Makers Collective, a retreat-based movement that's refining how we think about community, creativity, and purpose-driven change. And you know I'm all about purpose-driven change on this show. Whether he's coaching Fortune 50 CEOs or building a global community of innovators through Hope Makers, Greg is leading with wisdom, heart, and commitment to make the world one bold idea at a time a better place. I am certain this conversation will leave you feeling inspired, challenged, and most of all hopeful. So welcome my special guest, Greg Zlevor. Hey Greg. What's going on, my friend?

Great to be with you, Alan. Thanks for having me.

Yeah, absolutely. Let's dive right in. You've worked with leaders across six continents through Westwood International. What patterns do you see in the most effective legacy-driven leaders?

Oh, we are jumping right in.

Yeah, we're diving.

Yeah.

Head first. So.

There are a few patterns that I see for leaders. One, this like real commitment to keep learning and specifically the learning is around not it's an interesting dynamic I've noticed. They're not afraid of being embarrassed. So even when they're in an embarrassing situation, it's never awkward or uncomfortable. Like their confidence and their comfort are so good in that they're just comfortable being who they are, that even when something embarrassing happens, even the people around them don't feel like they're embarrassed. It's this remarkable dynamic and it's, I mean, people talk about don't worry about what other people think of you, et cetera, but when it's a technique and someone does something embarrassing, they try to think about it, but it's still awkward. People who have really practiced it and it's in their bones, it's remarkable to see how comfortable they can be even when they don't know what's going on.

Yeah.

So that, that I think is the biggest one for me.

Well, I don't know if that makes me a great leader, Greg, but I am embarrassed all the time. Do crazy stuff.

That gives you a lot of chance to practice down. That's what they are.

That's for sure. Hey, what originally drew you into the world of leadership development and was there a personal turning point? or a mentor that shaped your early path?

Yeah, there was. I mean, I've always been about groups. So even when I was in high school, you know, captain of teams or being on team sports, in college was in team sports. Did a lot of talking at local schools, when to try to put my way through college. Even my summer internship was working at the local Huber Law Program with inmates and things during one of my summer internships. So I've always been working with groups. So that's my first inclination. And then second, how that worked into leadership, as I was on staff at Boston College, but I was also working with a gentleman named M. Scott Peck. He wrote the Road Less Traveled in different journals. I love that book. Yeah, yeah. Some big books. And I was in his foundation for 10 years. Actually, at one point, when I first started, I was the youngest facilitator he had. which was another whole interesting story. But I was involved in the Society for Organizational Learning, Peter Senge's Learning Organization Society, and they wanted to get Dr. Peck as a speaker and they couldn't, couldn't, couldn't. And somehow they found out I was friends with them and working with them. And so they asked me if I would see if I get them to come and speak, you know, at the event. And so I talked to him and he's like, yeah, Z, I'm happy to do that. So he came and he spoke. And he was an interesting character because in the Road Less Traveled, a lot of people expected him to be almost like the second coming, like a guy who has everything together. He's perfect. He's like the best human being there is. And in a lot of ways, he knew what the best human being was, but he he rejected being put on a pedestal. So he's a bit of a curmudgeon.

Nice.

So he was a bit of an, I mean, he's witnessed it several times. He played struggles with the image they had of him and who he actually was. Well, when he finished his speech, he said, look, I don't want all of you coming up to the stage and talking to me. I really don't want to talk to you. But we have one of our best facilitators in the room. and there were about a thousand people in the room. And I'm way in the back. And he says, Z, because he called me Z for the Z of Zavore. He's like, Z, are you in here? Stand up. And I stood up. He's like, raise your hand. And I raised my hand. He's like, go talk to Z. He's one of our best facilitators. And I was still on staff at Boston College. I had a little, like, hobby leadership thing going on, but I was still at BC full time. and lo and behold, I had three companies come up to me within a week wanting to put me on retainer. Wow. From that event. Yeah. And from that point on, I went full time. So I'm forever indebted to Scotty for, you know, pointing me out and turning it. But when I started then, I started with group Dynamics and his community building and this whole process for how you get a team to go from starting out to being really high functioning. And it's always been the bedrock and foundation of my work. Since then, I've got connected with a lot of other people and organizations and experts and have added a lot of other nuances and folds to it. But that's been my bedrock from the beginning, Alan, and that's really, that was my biggest break.

Love it. Fantastic. What a great story. You said that hope is a foundational leadership quality. Why is hope not just a feeling, but a core leadership strategy?

Well, it's fascinating. Even Gallup came out recently and said that hope was the missing factor for most leaders. And I was, even I was personally stunned by that. Now, the way we came to hope is that one of the largest companies in the world came to me and asked me if I would put together a program to train their 50,000 people to bring hope to the world. while they delivered their products. And so I was like, that's like the best opportunity ever, right? And so I put together a global team, put together this proposal. I think they had nine other companies who they asked to pitch on this. And lo and behold, it comes down final interview to me and Ascension. So I'm against Ascension in the last event. They came to me after the final interview and they said, look, this was very inspiring because essentially what I did is I put it in three phases with the third phase being we took everything we learned, we packaged it up and we were going to give it and train college students to take hope to the whole world. So it was a super fun. I mean, I still get jazz thinking about it. It was two months of 12 hour days just working, thinking, working, thinking, talking to people. It was so much fun. Well, we got to the end and the company said, it's too big, right? We can't handle the whole world, we're just going to focus on our 50,000, so we're going to give it to Accenture. You're not going to get it. I was like, whoa. So I went back to the group thinking the whole thing would dissolve and lo and behold, about half the group said, let's keep meeting. This is really too exciting to work on and pass up. And so now we've been meeting twice a year and we called ourselves hope makers, talking about how can we bring hope. And here's why I think hope is foundational. Because developing the ability and the muscle to always know you can find a way always leads to the next best thing. if you can't see or you don't think or you can't feel that there's no more way left, you're done. So to me, hope is foundational, but hope is hope isn't a feeling. It's more of a muscle and an attitude that can be built and reinforced and can grow with practice. So hope is both a practice and a muscle and that's really when we get to hope makers, it's a lot of what we talk about. So how do we take and make hope practical? And how do we build the muscle? And how do we, I mean, one of my favorite phrases, never turn away. How do we learn to never turn away? And how do we find ways to make our angst our liberation?

Right.

Right. So that's part of what I believe hope is, it's not airy fairy, it's actually quite difficult and challenging.

So. How is the Hope Makers retreat different than other retreats or leadership events?

Well, it's different than a lot of events I go to. So I've been to a lot of these different masterminds and self-development retreats or leadership programs or conferences, etc. and most of them are experts on the stage giving talks, especially the big ones. When people come to our event, everyone pays their own way. So there's no one as like a paid speaker comes in, gives a speech and walks out. So everyone pays their own way. And some of the people who come are, you know, making 15, 20, 30,000 a speech. So it's not, we've had a couple people make even more than that, but It's not like the run of the mill people trying to get on stage. Second, when they come, I tell them, don't give a speech, because if you do, you're going to get in trouble. It's not going to fly here. And unfortunately, we had a guy who was a big name speaker, came and did his kind of regular speech, and it fell flat. And he couldn't understand it. I'm like, buddy, I told you this group wants to have a conversation. They can see the like standard stump speech or whatever the memorized, we're here to build relationships, we're not here to, so I tell everyone, please don't give a speech. Come bring your best ideas, have a conversation, share your thoughts, give some questions, interact. So that's the first thing second, everyone sits with each other for breakfast, for lunch, for dinner, Third, we hang out. And I tell everyone before the event, if you bring your business cards and I see you handing out your business cards, I'm throwing you out because it's listening and relationships first. And so since I'm adamant about that, and I vet everyone and talk to everyone about the values we live by and that's it, it does create a different atmosphere where people really come to listen and be in relationship. Now, that doesn't mean people don't do business, because once I get to know someone and what their real skills are, it's different, but it's built out of relationship. It's not built out of selling and pulling, which I detest. So, yeah, maybe that's, you know, just my thing, but it's what we work on creating.

Yeah. You've described HopeBakers as a space for creative brainstorming and collective knowledge. And I know you've done a little bit about that, but maybe we can go a little bit more granular on this. What are some powerful examples of how that plays out during a retreat?

Yeah, so a couple things, like for this one coming up, we have a guy named Dr. Jeffrey Thompson. And back in the early 2000s, he ran this project with the lady named Ivy Ross called Project Platypus at Mattel. And he brought in high-end patented technology. for people to use sine waves to put them into creative spaces and for a group to get a custom soundtrack so they could listen to that would help them sync up. Well, turns out after they did this process, Mattel ended up winning a bunch of toy awards, like International Awards on innovation and toys. Okay, so he's coming to share his technology. Alan Fedd, he's the author of the Teen Dimensions Profile, sold over 500,000 copies. He's dealt with high performing teams. For those people who may have heard of the Savannah Bananas, Jesse Cole gives him credit for inspiring the Savannah Bananas. He's coming and he's going to share his Teen Dimensions Profile. Now, what we do is we pair people who are listening, being in a relationship, not being sold, but they're just a learning connect. And then we layer on that technologies like Dr. Jeffrey Thompson's or Alan Fadins and we begin to look and decide, hey, how would these things work? Now the third element we add is we usually bring in a nonprofit or some big problem or challenge we can actually work on to practice this. And so in this particular event, Catherine Bell is going to come and we're.

Going to- Good friend, yes.

Yeah. And we're going to look at the challenge of 24,000 kids age out of the foster care system every year.

Yeah.

And when Catherine shared this with me, I don't know, about a year or so ago, I couldn't believe it.

Yeah. She shared it on this show actually on a previous episode. So it's a very emotional and stirring situation that really needs attention. So I'm thrilled that that's what you're taking on.

When she told me the kids get a black plastic garbage bag with all their stuff and someone hands it to them and says, Hey, you're 18, you're on your own now. And they literally got to walk off the porch into the street with nobody. I'm like, Are you kidding? I mean, we put kids through this broken system. All the way through and then that's they're finished at 18. I was thinking my kids I Mean they had everything they needed high school education everything else and they wouldn't have made it at 18 with a black bag I Mean they're they wouldn't have had enough bags to hold all their.

Stuff.

And To me it just shook me so much and that I asked her if she would come and we could deal with this challenge and problem, see if we can move the needle on it. And so we're going to start working on it. Matter of fact, we just put up a GoFundMe page. So if anyone's listening and can go to GoFundMe page and help us raise the money, that'd be fantastic. I think if you just look up Hope Makers, there's one under the Bell Community Foundation. I may put up another one. Have a couple GoFundMe's going. We're going to try to raise money so that we can get a team of experts working out between June and our next Hope Makers meeting will be in November in LA and see what difference we can make between June and November to begin to move the needle to start solving these problems. Because the other thing is research says if people can two simple things, if people have one person who believes in them and they can call for help, Most of the time they'll make it. And the other research I saw recently, if people just have someone who will listen to them for seven to nine minutes, that will usually be enough for most people to get through the challenge they think that is insurmountable while they're facing it. Right now, those are two very simple things. Not easy to put into play, but if we can begin to build a network of people who are willing to listen, and kids have a phone number to call, we can at least create big friends for them.

Yeah, most definitely.

In addition to seeing if we can do something about the system to get more kids connected with families before they age out. So, you know, that's what we're going to challenge and face and see what we can do.

I love it.

Yeah.

How do you curate the Hope Makers community and who should consider attending? What can they expect to walk away with?

Yeah, so, I mean, what you're going to walk away with first and foremost is a community, people that you've connected with. We had one guy who came in the meeting in November and he came up to me and he said, Greg, you know, I got to tell you something about this group. I was like, what's that? He said, this is the first time I've ever been to a group. and there was no one in the group who I didn't like.

And I kind of chuckled.

I usually come into these groups and try to avoid some people. He said there wasn't anyone here that I had to avoid. That's nice. Yeah, it was nice. And, but in part it's just the way we start. We start out with listening. We start out with a relationship. We start out connecting. So you're going to walk away with the community. Second, you're going to walk away with some world class tools, right? Teen dimensions profile. the sound and biotones, the how to develop your own brand. We, you know, we'll have some really key points that things that people can do that are very practical to help them have more resource to make more of a difference in the world. Third, if you want, you're also going to have a chance to jump into projects afterwards. Like if you want to help us solve this problem, we're going to have something for you to work on. You know, if you want to solve some other problem, there are other people who bring issues and challenges, you help them. So you're gonna have a community, you're gonna get tools, and you're also gonna get a chance to practice and make a difference. Those are three things I can guarantee if people are looking for them, they'll walk out with.

Amazing. Tell me this, how do you move people from inspiration to implementation after Hope Makers?

Well, I mean, to be frank, some people don't, right? Some people just come for the feeling of being in community and having the experience. I think most people come, though, to be moved to action and to do something. Matter of fact, we have one gentleman, Peter, who came to the very first Hope Makers meeting, still a very active member. And I remember the conversation I had with me. He said to me, Greg, he said, you know, I don't think I really fit in. I'm kind of a technologist. I'm a bit retired. I'm not a coach or a facilitator. I'm not in corporations. People don't report to me anymore. It doesn't seem like I fit with your group. I said, Peter, you might not. I said, but if you come with the right spirit, I trust if there is a place, you'll find it. I said, but do what's best for you. Well, lo and behold, he decided to come. Well, he came, he joined the group. It's probably the first group. Soon after that, the Ukraine war broke out. And one of the members in the group sent me a text and said, hey, do you want to make a difference in the world? And having no idea what the context was, I texted back, of course. I guess what we're about. That's what Holmberg's about. She said, okay, buy an airplane ticket. We're going to the Polish border. I was like, oh, holy crap. She's like, means it. And I had the phone and I turned it and showed my wife. My wife looked at it and she says, I'm going. I was like, what? She says, I'm going. I'm getting a ticket. I'm going with Nina. And I said, okay, I'll stay home and watch the house. You go then. If you're called to it. So her and Nina went to the border and they literally brought teddy bears. and met the mothers and children coming across the border, helped them find a spot, gave them comfort, got them food. You know, they went for like 10 days. And then Nina found a building that could be renovated for refugees. Lo and behold, this guy Peter, who didn't think he had a role, heard about this, called up Nina, called up Christine, and said, I want to go help build this building. He took six weeks off, went to Poland, got a crew, and renovated the building for 20 people to live in.

Wow.

Yeah. And so now Nina and Christine have been, they went to that border, they went to the floods in North Carolina, they went out to the fires in LA. They've done three trips. Right. So that's a real practical way that some members have connected who never would have met each other through hope makers and are now making a difference.

Yeah, it brings up another question I wanted to ask you. How do you personally stay grounded and hopeful, especially in times of uncertainty?

Well, it's not easy. And there are times where I've got to give myself a break. matter of fact, last couple weeks I got overwhelmed with several things, got some news I didn't expect and I'm like, you know what? I've just got to take a day off here. It wasn't like a day off like I went on vacation or anything. I just didn't push myself for that day. And I said, you know what? Let me just sit with this. I'm not even going to try to act on it. And one of the things I found the most is, and what I've learned is, When I get in those really difficult spots, do nothing. Don't do anything. Just sit with it, just be with it, let it soak a little bit. Because in the past, I would either overreact and make things worse, or I would get paralyzed and try to protect myself or escape. And now what I've learned is just to do nothing but be with it.

Yeah, present, right?

Yeah. And that's the first thing. The second thing is there's a few habits like exercising is one, meditating is another for me. You know, I have a little breathing ritual I do doing that. If I can get to my club and do a little bit of a sauna and a cold shower, that helps. Like there's little things I can do to help get me back on track. So if I get ungrounded, I'll do some of those things. Now, if I can do those things on a daily basis and I'm real consistent with it, not much will throw me these days.

Yeah.

But if I get off, like I just did this trip to the Middle East, did some work, came back, had to go to the West Coast to do more work, there are long days. jet lag, all that, I got off track. And then I got hit with this tough news and I was like, oh boy, all right, I'm not kept myself strong, I'm worn out here, now I get this, I had to give myself a break. So that happens from time to time, but to answer your question, those are some of the things I do.

Yeah. All right, I'm going to go into what I call the legacy round here. We like to do that on this show. It's Legacy All-Stars after all. Looking back at your journey so far, and you've done a lot of really amazing things. You've talked about some of them, but you have best-selling books, global impact, TEDx stages. What are you most proud of?

I'm most proud of getting my kids through college without a loan. That's probably the biggest thing.

That's a big one.

It was a big one. that was a big one for me. One of the most amazing things I was ever a part of, when I started teaching in high school right out of college, my second year, they put me in charge of the freshman football team. And the team hadn't won a game in three years. The program was awful. It was really bad. And the year I coached, We ended up going 8-0 and undefeated. Wow. And I had some of the kids still call me. But I was an awful coach.

It was, it must not have been that bad.

Well, I did make some moves that helped, but I played football in college, so I thought I knew what the sport was. And when we went to that first game and we were getting demolished every single play, like we didn't have a first down, for all the first three quarters. I couldn't figure out what our team was doing wrong. I couldn't figure out who was missing their blocks. I couldn't figure out what the defense was in and how they were shifting. I mean, I was like, wow, I really don't know this game. And my players didn't know the game either. Now, at that with only like two or three minutes left, I went, I called time out, went into the huddle and I said, gang, I said, we're getting killed. I said, we're losing, we're getting killed, but let's at least score a touchdown. So I put in the one kid who could throw the football. And I said, look, you just throw it to this guy here. I told the other guy, I said, John, I said, you just run straight down the field. I said, Paul, you just throw it to him. Let's just see what happens. And lo and behold, he throws an 80-yard touchdown pass. Right? The other team didn't know what hit him because all we did was run.

The ball and all we got was.

Like a half yard every run play. well, it turns out we got the ball back and I did the same thing again. We only had two plays that worked. We ended up winning the game.

Wow.

Now, yeah, it was a good decision that I made in that huddle just to try it, but I didn't know what I was doing. I was shooting in the dark. And then from there, we ended up developing a passing game and we ended up winning the rest of the season. But we were lucky, too.

Sometimes better to be lucky than good, though, right?

Exactly. Yeah, that was a lot of fun and it's always been a memory. Meeting Dr. Peck and doing the community building workshops were a highlight. They kind of got me going. My work at Boston College was, I love that favorite job I ever had. So, you know, I'm thankful for the beautiful marriage I'm in right now. My son and I do silent retreats together. Like that's been a joy. I mean, there's just so many things I'm thankful for right now. So, yeah.

Love it. Yeah. All right, well, let's talk about what's next for Hope Makers and Westwood International. How can people get involved?

Well, I think one, if my name, Greg's Lavoire, I'm the only Greg's Lavoire on the planet. So the easiest way is just to connect with me on LinkedIn, right? Because I'm, I'm the only one. Two, if they're interested in Hope Makers, they want to go to hopemakerscollective.com and check out Hope Makers, see if it's of interest to them. If you do want to sign up, you do have to interview with me so I can walk you through the values, make sure there's a fit. So I vet every single person that comes through the door. Third, if you want to donate to the GoFundMe page, I'll Put together one of my latest books, Success Habits of Super Achievers, which I am co-author in. Happy to sign it, send you a copy of that. So there's a few different ways you can connect. And if you want to make a difference and I can help you, I'd.

Love to hear from you. All right. I'm going to be the first one to go to that GoFundMe page and make a donation. Thank you, Alex. I already have your book, so I'm not going to ask you for a free copy of that. Okay. But, I appreciate that, man, and I really enjoyed having you on the show. You're very inspirational. I really want to thank Greg Laslavore for coming to the show today and giving us all reasons for hope. Until next time, I'm Alan Pavlowski, encouraging you to take action today and leave your powerful legacy.