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Welcome to the Legacy All-Stars Podcast, where.

We talk to successful individuals in their respective fields who do things to help others and make an impact for the greater good. Here is your host, Alan Pavlowski. Welcome to the Legacy All-Stars Podcast. For those of you who are new to the show, you can find all episodes at legacyallstarspodcast.com. today's guest is Andrew Morton. Andrew is one of the preeminent non-profit lawyers in the United States with a focus on representing foundations established by athletes and celebrities. He has represented hundreds of athletes and entertainers and has been involved in numerous inspirational causes that have made a huge impact on the greater good. I've personally known Andrew for around 15 years. We have worked together on many projects, and he has consistently demonstrated that his skill set is unparalleled in his area of expertise. He has also kept me from making a mistake or 10 in my own philanthropic activities. Finally, he's a great wingman at Super Bowl each year. Without further delay, I'd like to introduce my good friend, Andrew Morton. Andrew, what's up, my brother?

Nothing, just recovering from our wingman at Super Bowl. We're getting there.

Yeah, it's great. It was great to see you as always. Even though we live close to each other, we always seem to see each other more at Super Bowl than any other time. So it's always fun. So let's jump right into it. I want to start asking you some questions about your outstanding work. What motivated you to specialize in philanthropy law for sports and entertainment professionals?

To be honest with you, the reality is that philanthropy law found me. I didn't find philanthropy law. I had joined a major law firm, 2500 lawyer, 30 office type of law firm, and was going to be specializing government relations work. I have a background on Capitol Hill. I grew up in the DC area. So during the course of doing government relations work, I ran across through a pro bono client, a celebrity, an actress who impressed the heck out of me in terms of how articulate she was, how passionate she was. She was working in the field of refugee law, trafficking, slavery prevention, that sort of thing. And one of my favorite expressions is if all of your gots a hammer, all your problems start to look like a nail. And my hammer was government relations. So brought her to Capitol Hill. Of course, Capitol Hill loves celebrities as much as celebrities love Capitol Hill and generated a lot of attention. Paparazzi was in the hearing room when she testified before the House Judiciary Committee and just had tremendous impact by working through the government. From there, she went back to Hollywood, all of her friends and colleagues asked her how the heck she got on that track and said, I don't know, call this idiot attorney in DC, see what he can do. Next thing I know, my phone's ringing off the hook from sort of celebrities who wanted to have philanthropic impact. And my practice went from sort of government relations representation of folks wanting to influence Congress and the White House to sort of representing them in all their nonprofit ventures. As I always say, I could live my life a thousand times over, it's not working out like this again. It just, everything sort of fell into place just the way it needed to.

I mean, the world has benefited because you've made a lot of impact with your work through being involved with people that have a platform. And I always talk about that myself. is that I've had a lot of background in that and worked with athletes and celebrities and the unique opportunity that we have to make a big difference in the world. Can you share some insights into the unique challenges high profile individuals face when establishing charitable organizations?

Yeah, I mean, it's sort of the proverbial double-edged sword, right? I mean, these celebrities have a place in our society as being folks who draw a lot of attention, you know, especially in the age of social media. You know, when you have folks who can get millions of eyeballs onto to their message instantaneously, you know, awful long way from 15, 20 years ago where you had to set up an interview on a local news show. So, you know, these celebrities, you know, certainly have tremendous potential to message, you know, whether it's about, you know, what car they're driving, what clothes they're wearing, you know, who they're dating, who they're no longer dating. And, you know, the practice that we're in, in terms of representing these folks in the philanthropy world is just take advantage of the fact that in our society, they have an outsized influence. And instead of just using that platform for selling cars and buying clothes, let's use it for promoting charitable causes. And it's tremendously valuable, it's tremendously impactful. But at the same time, it goes the other way as well. There have been a number of stories lately about high profile individuals who are not doing it right. And they're sort of good people doing great things for all the right reasons. But if you do it the wrong way, the wrong way becomes the story. And that's a shame. I mean, it's tragic that you have these well-intended individuals who are using their platform to benefit whatever the cause is sort of most important to them. And then all of a sudden the news story comes out. It's about how they, you know, they didn't file an annual report. They failed to register with the attorney general. They didn't file a federal tax return. Yeah, so that's the risk is, you know, when you use your platform in any context, and certainly this one, being high profile means that all your successes are high profile and all of your mistakes are high profile. So, what we try to do is just make sure that while they're doing this good work, they do it the right way and make sure that that remains the story. Is the impact of their work, not their failure to handle legal compliance.

Yeah, I mean, we've talked about that a lot, you and I, but if you had to do a ballpark guess of how many disasters you've prevented by keeping people on the right track, give me a ballpark guess.

It's interesting. Probably a third of my clients come to our practice group because they have nothing and they want to start a charitable organization. They want to begin to dabble in the philanthropy space and try to move the needle on whatever cause they care about. But half two-thirds of our clients are coming to us because they got flagged. They got a notice in the mail that they didn't file a charitable registration. They get a notice that their 501 status has been revoked because they failed to file a tax return. We get as many clients who to us to fix it as we do who come to us to create it. And again, it's tragic. I still have yet to meet anyone who I believed in my heart of hearts was trying to manipulate nonprofit law, was trying to take advantage of it, was trying to figure out a way to have nonprofit funds pay for a weekend at the Four Seasons with their buddies. That just doesn't exist. And these are, in my experience, 100% of the time, they're folks who understand that they were given gifts. they have blessings that some of us didn't have. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar certainly spent an awful lot of time practicing his skyhook, but you can't practice to be 7'2. There's nothing that I could have done at 5'11, a buck 60 soaking wet to be an NBA center. So that's what drives these people, is they recognize that they had opportunities that most folks don't have, and they're trying to use it for good. And again, our mission is to make sure they do it the right way, and we just don't leave the opportunity for the story to be about the failure to comply for reasons that, I mean, what NBA player, what actor, singer would sort of wake up one day and say, I wonder if I have to register with the attorney general. It's just not gonna happen. So how many do we prevent? I hate to even put a number on it 'cause it'd be awfully high. When we get these folks who have nonprofits and come to us to do what we call like a compliance review or compliance audit, I often say that on a 10 scale of zero being perfect compliance and 10 being federal criminal tax fraud, they're usually five or six. And again, they all want to be zero. Most of them think there's zero, that they're in full compliance. They just don't know any better. Again, our responsibility is to be the wizard behind the curtain for legal compliance and just let them do the work that they can do, which is the impactful philanthropy, the programs, the grant making, the fundraising, and not have them worry about whether or not they're going to get into legal trouble.

Yeah, absolutely. What kind of critical legal considerations for celebrities aiming to engage in legislative advocacy and public policy? What are those legal considerations?

That's sort of a whole other issue you get into legislative advocacy. But what's important to remember is that the single largest grant toward nonprofits on the planet is the United States government. There are billions and billions of dollars spread across the dozens of agencies that are earmarked to support for charitable activities. And one thing that isn't really intuitive, but in a sense, the whole nonprofit sector was created to outsource the government's job. But for the nonprofit sector, a lot of these programs, a lot of these activities would have to be done by the federal government or the state governments. So the whole sector in and of itself is designed to be like a mini government or a government offshoot. And when you think about that, you circle that back around and say, well, if we're doing your job, you give us the money to do it. And there's plenty of opportunity for grants at all levels of government from federal, state, municipal, they've all got money, they've all got things they need to do, and they'd all rather have us do it than do it themselves. So the key is just to figure out where to find those buckets of money. And again, that's a whole hour and a half long law school lecture that I give once a year, and you don't wanna hear it now, there's always a way to find grant funds. There is no nonprofit charitable purpose that doesn't have a government agency at some level or multiple levels that's dedicated to solving that problem. And if you can identify the agency and convince them you can solve the problem, then they're going to want to support it because they'd rather do that. They'd rather write a check than have to spend their effort doing it themselves.

Yeah. We talked about crisis management a little bit. How do you approach crisis management for nonprofit organizations? facing operational or reputational challenges?

That's a good question. I mean, the most, the simplest answer is we just fix it. You know, we just get it right. I mean, I'll give you the most important recent example or, you know, the last couple of years has been, you know, the Walter Payton Man of the Year winner at the NFL Awards. And unfortunately, through no fault of the players, I mean, these are all, and again, I'll keep saying it because important to emphasize, you know, these players are all doing the right thing for the right reasons. And unfortunately, there are, you know, these organizations, whether it's the league, the players associations, the alumni associations, they're not experts in this either. So there's really nobody guiding these folks. And when they get into trouble, the best crisis management is fix the problem. And, you know, if they're out of compliance, get them into compliance, end of crisis. Yeah. So it's a little different than your typical sort of, crisis management from like a PR perspective or a messaging perspective, at least with respect to my practice, is just fix it, period, full stop, you're done.

Yeah. You know, one might think that this is a glamorous job and a lot of people try to get into sports or entertainment because they think it's going to be glamorous. What advice would you give to young attorneys aspiring to work with the intersection of Law, philanthropy, sports and entertainment. I mean, is there something you can say that would either give them good advice on how to do it or.

Talk them out of doing it? You know, I get asked that a lot. And, you know, the truth is, as I said before, you know, I didn't, I don't really do this on purpose. Like, I didn't sit in a classroom of Penn Law and say, I want to represent athlete celebrity foundations one day. You know, I think that the nonprofit sector can be incredibly attractive to lawyers, law students for the sort of silly reason that a lot of law schools will provide loan relief for folks who go into public service. whether it's with a government or with a nonprofit. So getting into nonprofit law is great. Breaking into sports and entertainment, that's tough. You've got to find a hook. Like I said, I can take zero credit for getting into this space. The space found me. I just happened to have crossed paths with a high profile actress accidentally through a pro bono project and it took off from there. So I would say it's easier to get into the nonprofit space and find a way to get into sports and entertainment than the reverse. You've got to have the substantive expertise. Again, I'm not an expert in sports and entertainment nonprofit law. Nonprofit law is what it is, and those just happen to be the clients that I've been fortunate enough to work with. But if you have a passion for helping folks and you don't have a passion for shopping for yachts and mansions, nonprofit law is a great space, and who knows where it can lead.

Yeah. All right, I'm going to go off topic a little bit.

Shocked by that.

Favorite Super Bowl moment over the last 20 years?

Wow. All right. So I am a lifelong Redskins fan who then became a Ravens fan when an owner that wasn't very popular took over the team. But I guess since this is a show about philanthropy and about my practice, I'm going to have to go with one of my very first clients, Antonio Holmes, and his unbelievable toe-tap catch from Roethlisberger in the back of the end zone. Not that I'm remotely a Steelers fan. fan, but, you know, much like, it's sort of like with fantasy football, like you can't more with player than the team. I sort of have my own version. It's client football.

Right.

I just, I root for my clients irrespective of what team they're on. And it's kind of nice to be able to, to say that, that one of my clients made one of the best plays in, in Super Bowl history. So I guess I'll go with that.

Not from a fan perspective, but if I'm being loyal to clients, as I like to be.

Yeah.

I mean, there's a great event that.

You and I attend.

Every year at Super Bowl Thursday night, the big cigar party put on by Gridiron Greats and Roger Gorski and the causes associated with that.

And Coach, the Bears. Coach.

That's right, Coach Ditka. Absolutely. What is it that makes those kinds of events so special to you? I know I have my own opinions on what makes them so great each year and being able to get together with friends that you've been around in the industry. what makes it great to you?

Well, what I like about those sorts of events is that they sort of take on a life of their own, right? I mean, the whole, the opportunity to have impact in philanthropy is, like I said, leveraging these high profile individuals and they're, you know, the social media followers they have, the interviews they're able to do, the press conferences. So, you know, when you establish an event and you have a few of those guys there, that attracts more people than the more people, the more athletes want to come because there's more fans there. And it gets to the point where the attendees who are sort of the athlete celebrity types start to outnumber the folks who are actually buying tickets, which in a way isn't ideal. But from just an impact standpoint, it's fantastic. We get for that cigar party in particular, I think we usually have a list of 100 plus. football players or other athletes who want to come by and support the organization. And then the next year, when we put out the list of expected to attend or confirmed to attend, that attracts more people. We can drive up the ticket price because people get to have their picture taken and get their autographs. There are people running around with the signature footballs and a Sharpie. So that's sort of exactly what this space is supposed to do. It's attract the athletes to support the cause and attract the fans who want to support the athletes. And like I said, the thing just sort of spirals from there in a good way. And then all of a sudden you have this annual event that people are begging for tickets for or begging for VIP passes instead of, at the outset, we're begging them to attend. Now it goes the other way around where we have the athletes saying, Can I pretty please get on the list and attend this event? Which is a long way from where it started saying, Were you pretty please calm? and sort of help us peddle tickets to raise funds for the cause.

Yeah, we talked about that now, it's a couple weeks ago now at Super Bowl. It's hilarious to see all the different celebrities and athletes that call you without naming names that you don't even know that want to get into the event.

Yeah, I mean, again, it's, once you get to that point, like the proverbial tipping point where we don't have to ask them, now they ask us. But I mean, it's fun, you get to see these guys outside of outside the context, right? I mean, it's one thing to sort of get a sideline pass and get 10 seconds with a guy as he's warming up or a post game, you know, when they just either, you know, won and just want to go home or lost and really want to go home and try to have a conversation, you know, instead you're hanging around having a bourbon, smoking a cigar, just chit chatting with them about anything but football. You know, that's what makes it special is, you know, you get to sort of cross paths with these guys that you, you know, that you idolize and you watch on the field and now all of sudden, you know, that you're lighting their cigar for them. It's, it's kind of cool. You know, that's, that's, that's what fans enjoy. And again, it's, that's the formula. You know, you get the high profile people, you get the fans who want to support them. You see what they're supporting, and then all of a sudden, we're raising hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars for.

For a cause that, that folks care about. Yeah. You know what, Andrew? I mean, we've talked about this a lot because, again, we're friends as well as, you know, we have these relationships over the years. But one of the things that I really am struck by is the people that choose to do things for the right reasons. And we've talked about that when it comes to philanthropy work from athletes. But what is it about you and your upbringing and your influences that caused you to want to do things that weren't necessarily always about the money, but more about doing what's right?

I mean, again, I wish I could take credit for where my career ended up. I'm not going to say that I was this altruistic law student who aspired to be a nonprofit law. I had absolutely no, no, I didn't take non-profit law in law school. I never crossed my mind until I got to the law firm. And the law firm was the one, I mean, I may as well pitch them. I give my credit my career to Latham Watkins. They have a strong pro bono, you know, mentality. They encourage borderline require associates to do, you know, a minimum amount of pro bono work. Most associates do significantly more because the firm supports it. you know, so it was through, you know, it's through being a lawyer that I got to non-profit law. And, you know, if I'm being honest, it's, it's great practice. I mean, I'm a sports fan. I've been a sports fan my whole life. And, you know, there are now folks that I count as friends that, that you could not have convinced my 14 year old self that I would ever say, you know, this athlete is somebody that I text also because back when I was 14, there were no cell phones. But you get the point. It's, you know, it's just just, you know, I'm not, like I said, it's not that I'm just, you know, so altruistic that I just want to help. I mean, I make a good living. I don't, I don't care about making a better living. You know, I enjoy my practice. I like to say the only one who enjoys my practice more than me is my, my kid, who's now 21 year old senior at the University of Miami and has a man cave that he could probably blow away, you know, even, even high profile athletes. It's pretty funny, you know, all my athletes know he's a sports fan. They just send signed footballs, signed jerseys, and And that's the fun part of the job. There are ways to have a profession that is rewarding other than just in your bank account. And maybe for the right reason, maybe for the wrong reason, but I love being around these athletes. They're great guys. I like to say I cheated in a way. Nobody else in the country represents 250 some odd athletes and celebrities with absolutely no divas, no prima donnas, because those guys don't tend to want to start nonprofits. If you're a kind of guy that goes out with his neighborhood friends, and, you know, for the weekend and parties till three in the morning, you're probably not waking up the next day and calling me about a foundation. You know, the guys who come to me are, they're the ones who are the big-hearted guys. You know, they're the ones who, who really want to have an impact other than just on the field or on the court or on the ice.

Look, I don't want to call BS on you, but I know you well enough to know that you do things for the right reasons. So I'm gonna let my audience know. that Andrew Morton does things for the right reasons. And it's not just about, you know, hanging out with people and doing the right thing and making a living. I'm gonna call BS on that, 'cause I know you well enough to know. Yeah, I got you.

You know, I mean, again, the right, you know, I'm just doing my job. Like, my job is to be a nonprofit compliance governance oversight attorney. And through doing that, yeah, I get to do great things with people. I get to, you know, sort of, take my small piece of the credit for all this incredible work they're doing. It feels great. I wouldn't trade this job for anything, and my kid wouldn't let me anyway.

Yeah, I wasn't going to ask you this question, but I'm going to. Are there any, without having to name names, because sometimes there's obviously privacy issues and confidentiality issues, are there any new and noteworthy projects that you're working on that just really Touch your heartstrings.

I mean, it's, that's the funny thing about being a lawyer is, right? Lawyers are primarily, we're process guys. I mean, my job to do oversight governance compliance isn't dependent on whether a client is doing after school programs or childhood cancer research or, you know, or any other charitable cause. It's, you know, we're just process guys. You know, personally though, you know, I have my own substantive interest and as I sort of referenced before, it's this trafficking and slavery and refugee rights. And that's what I enjoy the most is when, again, this is the way that I cheat is folks don't really care about what an attorney in San Francisco necessarily thinks, but when I get to piggyback a high profile individual who's dedicated to the same sort of causes that I personally enjoy, that's what's most rewarding for I suppose obvious reasons. I'm living in the impact that I personally can have. But, you know, you throw, throw somebody to the mix who was, you know, on the Pro Bowl team or who won an Oscar, and all of a sudden, you know, I, I get to, I get to have more of an impact than, than I would on my own and, and just leverage what they're doing. That's the whole nature of the practice. Yeah.

Well, you're the best at what you do. I know it.

That was one of the best when you started. I love how things change in 30 minutes. It's nice.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Well, I'm gonna say you're the best because I've had that experience with I do want to know how, like my audience, it includes some of the athletes and celebrities that might need your services. I'd love to know how I can communicate to them, how they can reach you and how they can find out more about what you can do for them to help them with their causes.

If you're talking on a purely practical level, you know, my law firm is Handler Law. You know, handler.law is our website. And, you know, my bow is there. My contact information is there. A quick overview of my practice is there. you know, but again, it's not, it's not that, that, you know, what we do is so special. We're just nonprofit attorneys. You know, obviously we have the added dimension of the, the high profile individuals. And, and like I was saying, that double-edged sword. I mean, if I, if there's anything keeps me up at night, it's knowing that to some extent, you know, these guys reputations can be in, in our hands in terms of compliance. You know, if any of my guys wound up being in one of those stories about non-compliance, I gotta look for another job and I like my job. So it's, you know, it's a simple question of deciding, you know, how do you want to be involved? You know, worth mentioning that there are, it's, there's this misconception that, that if you want to have philanthropic impact, you form your own 501c3 tax exempt organization. And that is absolutely the furthest thing from the truth. You know, I'm not gonna bother rattling off the alternatives except to say there are a number of alternatives to having your own C you know, so what I would say is that, you know, everyone with a public profile ought to use that profile to have charitable impact. That doesn't mean with your own C3 and it doesn't mean that you have to, you know, save the world. You know, everybody has the opportunity to have impact on whatever level, you know, their platform reaches. So, you know, I would encourage anybody with that profile to engage in this work. But I would encourage anyone with that profile to talk with somebody like us who knows nonprofit law, understands the alternatives, and can communicate what's involved with each one. What you have to do to run your own C3 is very different than what you have to do to open a donor-advised fund, for example. So it all becomes about aligning those two interests. It's like, what kind of impact do you want to have? How much responsibility are you willing to take? How much control do you want to take? and then sort of throw those all into the mix and figure out, you know, what is the right way to move forward?

I have one more question I want to ask you before we wrap up, and that is, do you have a specific process when you consult with somebody that has not yet decided on what cause they want to support or where the impact is that they want to make? Do you have a specific process that would allow you to extract the information that you need in order to make sure you're guiding them properly on how to make that broadest impact.

Well, there's sort of, there's two primary questions, right? Is one, what is the cause that's gonna motivate you to be dedicated to it? Like, what is it that would have you interested, you know, to dedicate some of your time, your resources, obviously your money? And once you identify that cause, then it gets to that second question about, okay, now we know this is the cause that we wanna support, what's the best avenue to get to that? Like, is it a 501c3? Is it some other opportunity to open an alternative? Is it just linking up with an existing nonprofit and being their spokesperson and driving eyeballs to their website that way? You know, at that first question is, that's the fun one, right? When you get to sort of pick their brain and test them in a way about, you know, what is the cause that you want to support? I mean, the best example that that I always use is, you know, years and years ago, I was contacted by an NFL player who, you know, said, you know, I understand you're the guy who does athlete philanthropy. I said, yeah. And so, well, I want to start a foundation. So, great. What cause do you want to support? And he said, well, I want to be, I want to fight obesity among kids. I was like, fantastic cause. Like, a lot of people want to support that. And then I asked the one word question is, well, why? why? And he said, what do you mean, why? And I said, well, why is that the cause that you want to support? And he said, well, Michelle Obama is this Let's Move campaign and it just seems like a popular cause. And I said, no, no, no, no, no. That's not going to get you out of bed if you're just following what Michelle Obama does. What do you do right now? And he said, well, in the off season, I'm getting an MBA. I said, why? He said, well, because I want to support minority businesses. And I said, well, well, how do you think that minority businesses, do they have access to resources now? And he went off. He's like, Absolutely not. We get screwed, we don't know what to do, and nobody wants to give us money. And I said, Stop, dude. You just found your cause. The cause is gonna be the one that motivates you to do the work is supporting minority businesses or providing resources for minority businesses to access. funds to access support. So again, you can't fake it. You've got to find the cause that matters. Did your mother survive breast cancer? Did your best friend in high school get killed by a drunk driver? What is it in your heart that's really going to have you want to dedicate this time? Because it's not easy. It's hard to ask people to donate. It's hard to ask people to come to your events. But if you have that passion, you better believe that they're gonna feel it and they're gonna, they're not only gonna agree, they're gonna be excited to support you. So it's really, it comes down to that one word, why? What cause you want to support? Why? And you can see it in their eyes whether it's the right cause. And once that sort of flash goes off in their eyes, you go, okay, here we go. Now we know what you're gonna do. Let's figure out how you're gonna do it. Everything sort of falls into place from there.

Yeah. Well, I couldn't end it on a better note. I want to to thank my friend Andrew Morton for being here today. What a real privilege it is to chat with you outside of our normal friendship conversation and let everybody know the kind of impact you have with your work. So thank you for being here.

Yeah, you bet.

Again, legacyallstarspodcast.com is where you can find information about the show. If you want to learn more about how I help people build a legacy through passive income, you can find that on that website.