Nicholas Mallos (Part2): Breaking the Plastic Pipeline to Save Our Planet

Welcome to the Legacy All Stars podcast. We feature inspirational stories from people who dedicate themselves to helping others. Here is your host, Alan Pavloski.

Welcome back to the Legacy All Stars podcast. I'm your host, Alan Pavloski. This is part two of a special two part episode with Nicholas Malice. Yeah, I think the Protect Where We Play campaign is such a powerful opportunity as well. I love that campaign. You and I have had talks about this in the past, the fact that it integrates sports and play. And again, you know, from our previous conversations that, you know, my wife and I own and operate a school that is called the Good Earth School. And we really focus on making sure we're building good stewards of the earth with our preschool students that attend and it's so important to us. But I love the Protect Where We Play campaign specifically because it's not about shaming people and it's not about stigmatizing people. It's about building the awareness that sports and play unify us into being able to make a difference for the health of the ocean. Can you give me more detail about the Protect Where We Play campaign and kind of talk about how it's been successful in driving a mind shift amongst the public? I don't mean to go on and on about this, but I personally think it's important to make sure we don't stigmatize or shame people on this. I think the awareness building and the, the reality of what's happening in our oceans, it's crucial to communicate that accurately and honestly without making people feel like they are to blame. Because that's the surest way, in my view, to keep people from taking action is to make them feel like they are the target of that criticism.

I couldn't agree more with you, Alan. Right. I am a huge advocate of teaching. I think preaching is a dangerous, dangerous territory to enter. And that really is at the core of what we're trying to do with the Protect Where We Play campaign. And ultimately, you know, we talk about these ocean issues. The ocean and the challenges it faces are getting worse and we have great messaging. We know there's a large portion of the population that cares deeply about taking ocean action, but still, it's not enough. We need more people on Team Ocean and that means we need to find new audiences to join Team Ocean. And what we know, the data are very clear about this. There are very few platforms out there that reach more people and that more people are motivated by than the power of sport and entertainment. And so the Protect Where We Play campaign is about flipping the script. It's not about gloom and doom, continuing to talk about how. How bad all the problems are. Again, it's about sending the right information, providing the realities of the challenges we face, but it's about focusing on our shared platforms of joy and our shared moments of hope together. Because we know that people unify around the sense of joy, unlike very few other emotions. That's why sport is so incredible. You're all there with 80,000 people you don't know, but in that moment when the touchdown scored or the goal scored, it's like they're your family and you're hugging, you're cheering. So how do we capture that sense of purpose and passion, even if a fraction of it, that you can capture from the energy you see in an arena or in a stadium and convert that towards taking action or speaking up to, to protect our ocean. We're going to unlock new change in this world and we all need the ocean. Whether again, we live on the coast or hundreds of miles inland, we all rely on the ocean for a healthy planet. Every other breath we take comes from the ocean. We rely on the ocean for water, we rely on it for food. It is critical to the heartbeat of this planet. And so protectorary play is about finding people wherever they are, welcoming them to join. T motion to. To unify in a way that creates greater change than any of us could do on our own.

Yeah, I want to talk about the partnerships that you've built out the team, not just you, but the whole team at Ocean Conservancy has built out for protect where we play. I mean, I know personally some of the athletes that are involved. I spent 30 years in sports representing athletes on their branding, marketing, and most importantly, on their philanthropic impact. And that's something I'm really passionate about. Tell me about some of those partnerships and what has been the most exciting for you in building that team Ocean?

Yeah, I think we have incredible representatives from women's basketball, from the WNBA to the NFL, to horse teams in the NFL, to sail GPT, to professional ballerinas, to surfers, to actors, to Paralympians. And so it's a diverse breadth of Team Ocean captains that have joined the initiative. And I think the one thing that is so inspirational to me about it is they are all stepping up to do this for their own passion, their own deep concern for the sake of our ocean and the health of our ocean. They know how important it is and they all have their own stories, which I think is fascinating. Some of them enter through the lens of caring about the climate and knowing how important the ocean is for regulating climate. Others grew up dealing with asthma issues. They know the ocean is important for clean air. So everyone has their own unique story, but they all see the ocean as such a core again, that heartbeat of this planet. And so getting to see the genuine passion and joy that they bring to the table. And, you know, they're all incredible leaders and have their amazing followings. We know that their supporters, their champions are watching them and saying, wow, Kevin Beecham cares about the ocean, or Nafisa Collier cares about the ocean. I should care about the ocean too. And so it just changes the entry point in the messenger about why this issue is important. And so continuing to build that team out and those diverse voices is absolutely paramount to the success of this campaign. And we're just getting started. There's lots of exciting endeavors ahead, like the Reuse Tour, the Productivity Play Tour this summer, coming in the fall, partnering with the Coldplay, Billie Eilish, the Lumineers, where, you know, eliminating 1 million plastic single use cups at their concert venues, just to show what is possible. And again, that's just the start. We got bigger and better plans ahead to continue not only bring people along and creating ocean champions, but also showing the impact we all can have if we just rethink or reduce a little bit.

Yeah.

Let'S talk about what's next. If you could shift the public's understanding of ocean plastics, what's the one thing that you want people to grasp with a little bit more clarity?

Yeah, it's a tricky one because I don't want to get too in the weeds, and I don't think this about chemistry, but at the end of the day, the unsightly beaches, the sights of sea turtles with the straw up its nose, or the entangled whale, they are horrific scenes. And that alone, hopefully, is motivation enough or reason enough for us to be taking action against this unnecessary threat to the ocean and wildlife and communities that depend on it. But it's a far bigger crisis than just that. The plastic pollution crisis is deeply intertwined with the other two planetary crises being climate change and biodiversity loss. We know plastic pollution not only directly affects much wildlife in the ocean, on land, it also exacerbates a lot of the challenges those animals and species are already facing. And that puts at risk food security for populations that rely on the ocean for their primary source of protein. But I think it is the link to climate that is the scariest piece. Plastics are a sizable chunk of our current greenhouse gas. Emissions percent every year and business as usual. Over the next two decades, that number is expected to skyrocket even more, accounting for almost 20% of oil demand globally by 2050, if trajectories continue. And so, as we think about all of the great efforts around the world trying to combat climate, climate change and reduce climate emissions and stabilize our planet and the climate at the same time, a lot of the plans put in place around plastics and producing plastics are directly at odds with that. And in some ways, it's kind of like the silent killer because the metrics are different. You see the plastics, you don't immediately think about the climate impact, but it is a very, very real threat. And as we look to the future and as progress is being made on electric vehicles and other areas where we're reducing the amount of oil and gas being used, plastics really is the final economic pipeline for a lot of the oil and gas companies. And, you know, if we do not get a handle on the production, all of the great strides we have made on climate will be overshadowed by the continued emissions and impact that it has, not only in the form of those hard plastics hurting our beaches, in the waterways, but the very rare impacts it has in our global climate, temperature and the health of our ocean.

Yeah, you know, I adopted a vegan lifestyle 15 years ago for myself. Never stigmatize or judge anybody for whatever personal choices they're making, whatever their choice of diet. One of my biggest motivators for doing so was the fact that I had gained so much knowledge about how severely the animal protein production process has affected the planet and how that affects climate change. You being a scientist, obviously you're much more aware of a lot of this than I am. But there's so many different ways that people can help. And I always try to figure out, look, if you can do one thing, even if you cut down a little bit on something, you can move the needle just ever so slightly. And moving the needle so slightly can create a tipping point that could move us in a different direction. Do you have any thoughts on just incremental change and how that can affect the greater good of our planet?

I do. And it might seem trivial, but obviously we all have voices. We should be speaking up to our elected officials. We should be sending market signals to companies about what we want from their products. But at the end of the day, what can all of us just do immediately? It starts with us. And you showed your water bottle earlier. We don't have to go from our current lifestyle to plastic free overnight. That's Very hard. And honestly, you're probably going to fail. There's just too much in our everyday lives to make that fundamental light switch moment. But can you think about the one or two changes in your everyday routine, whether it's going to the coffee shop and getting your cup of coffee every day in that plastic line paper cup? Can you take your reusable instead over the course of the year? That's a lot of cups. Can you throw a reusable bag in every vehicle you own or on every scooter you take or your bike? So that's always handy. And you reduce those unnecessary plastic bags that might be otherwise distributed at the grocery store or paperback. So it's identifying those one to two items in your everyday life that you can start phasing out. And you say, why does that really matter? Well, we're a population on this planet of approaching 8 billion people. If everyone said, okay, I'm just going to do and eliminate that one product over the course of the year, over 8 billion people, those numbers start to add up. And, and it's not just that they're reducing the likelihood of those products for polluting the environment. Over time, those products, the demand for that product starts to send signals to companies that start rethinking, okay, well maybe the consumers actually want something different. People want something different. And that spawns innovation and research and new materials, new packaging design without us ever even thinking about it. So it is simple. Start small. But every piece, every action truly does matter. And collectively, as a global society, our choices matter, our voices matter. And so baby steps is important, but baby steps add up very quickly.

Yeah. So on the flip side to all these challenges that we've talked about, what gives you hope right now? Where are you seeing progress that makes you optimistic?

Well, I think again, I'll say, people, the repeated call for change that continues to come from the community level all the way up to the international level is incredibly encouraging. And you know, I talk about the global plastic tree that didn't get done in August. And yes, it felt like a failure in many ways, but I think what we saw is still getting together over 180 countries around the world coming together, trying to pass a game changing type piece of text that would reduce plastics. While there were a few strong holdouts that really derailed the process, you still have the majority of the world saying enough is enough, we have to reduce, we have to get a handle on how much plastics we are making. The science says it, our communities tell us they need it. And so I rally behind that because the majority of the world is, we are together, we are aligned, and so we're going to get there. We didn't quite break through the dam this time, but we're going back. Everyone remains determined. And in the wake of the Geneva, the lack of a treaty being passed, we've seen more and more outcry from the public demanding sustained focus to try and get a global plastics treaty that meets the need and urgency of the crisis. And we know that we cannot solve this global problem and the climate crisis it is exacerbating without reducing the amount of plastics we are making and using in the first place.

Right, right.

Well, looking ahead, let's talk about what's next for Ocean Conservancy, your team, there's. And what personally do you want to accomplish in this mission?

So for Ocean Conservancy, we are really laser focused on the three pillars that science tells us are most needed, and that is reduction, management, and cleanup. And so we're continuing to push, whether it's at the local level or the state, federal, and obviously at the global plastic surety, for the producer accountability policies that ensure that the companies that are making these plastics are held responsible for the full lifecycle for what happens to those plastics after we're done with it. And also setting firm targets to reduce the amount of plastics that are allowed to be made in the first place. So driving the policies wherever we can with partners around the world at the same time, advancing critical science that helps make those business cases more compelling. So what are the full effects and impacts of plastics on marine wildlife, on communities, on economies, and using that information to advocate for the policies and then also cleanup? We know again, even if we succeed in reducing and managing plastics successfully, there is still going to be a high need for cleanup. And so, in addition to the international coastal cleanup that is happening right now, we are also working with partners around the world to identify kind of key places that the ocean needs us most. So biodiversity hotspots, cultural hotspots, indigenous and tribal community lands where plastics are disproportionately affecting these coast environments. And we are prioritizing cleanup efforts there where we know they have the largest conservation or cultural benefit. So those are the three main approaches that we take to really think about this in a holistic manner. And for me personally, you know, I'm committed to stay with this and see this until we get over that hump. And to me, that hump right now is achieving a global plastics treaty. And it may not be the global Plastics treaty that ends all be all but it is setting that piece in motion so that we as a global society have a text that we can come to and negotiate and strengthen over time to ensure we are pushing forward the necessary solution sets to get a handle on the issue and to end plastic pollution once and for all.

Yeah, you know, you mentioned this a little bit, and I want to dovetail into this kind of side question here for a moment. I know this isn't really your department, but I know you have a lot of conversations there at Ocean Conservancy. Can you tell me about how you're making the business case to corporations and businesses about how this can affect them in a positive way economically?

Yeah. So I think there are good examples out there around bringing the leading edge. Right. So you can wait for regulation to drive the change, or you can really be a front runner and a leader and take those voluntary steps. And so there are multiple examples out there of companies willingly saying we are going to eliminate plastics from our supply chain or within our box to the extent of our ability. And it's not just a marketing ploy. It is them walking the talk and actually being transparent about that. And oftentimes that is opening up new customer bases or opening up new audiences that otherwise may have not been leaning towards their products. And so we look at that and again, I think it's also being realistic with companies out there. Again, just as we as individuals going plastic free overnight is not going to probably succeed, being realistic with what is actually doable in appropriate timelines and think about, okay, how can we identify kind of interim progress? What are milestones that we can set to reduce the amount of plastics or materials that are being used that we know are disproportionately effectful and using those as like, you know, milestones along the way. So the conversations are positive. I think in many instances, there's a lot of companies out there that are trying to move the needle. They are trying to figure out how they can reduce their footprint. So coming to the table in a let's find a solution mentality, I think is a critical first step to the equation.

Yeah, no pressure on this, because you might not have them off the top of your head. We didn't talk about this in advance, but are there any companies that have shown a willingness and a voluntary sense to move the needle on eliminating plastics from their production that we can celebrate here on this show? Because ultimately, giving people the platform to be recognized for the contributions they're making is kind of what this show's all about. And do you have any specific companies you've been able to see that have moved the needle on this?

You know, shame on me for not having a better answer to that. There are certainly companies out there that are, you know, phasing out plastics and certain materials or certain product lines. But in terms of, you know, going comprehensively plastic free, there's companies like Lush out there. Folks might be familiar. They do a lot of bath products. They are, I believe, a largely plastic free company. They've committed to doing that.

It is possible there are examples out there, and I apologize for not having more concrete examples off the tip of my tongue, but I also want to make sure I'm speaking accurately and informed and not. Not.

Yeah.

One way or the other. So I'm happy to follow up with you, Alan, if that'd be useful.

That would be great. I'd love to hear that. All right, I'm going to ask you one last question, and this is a big one, because I ask this of almost everybody that comes on the show. What does legacy mean to you?

You know, I think for me, call it two decades, three decades. I don't know how long I'll be in this space, but when the time comes for me, I know. I think for me, legacy is my children, my family, colleagues I've worked with, folks that I've interacted with over my career. Everyone can say unequivocally, oh, Nick, yeah, like, there's a guy that fought and genuinely gave it his all to try and make the world a better place than how he found it. And hopefully, if I do my job and compel others, we can say I did succeed in that, that we move the needle a little bit and the world is a better place. Whether it's that one beach, whether it's the ocean, whether it's communities. I like to think that we all have a role and responsibility to make this planet a little bit better than how we inherited it. That's what I think about, and that's what I hope my legacy might be someday.

Yeah, I hear similar things from most guests. I think you're really making a difference, and we've come to the end of our time together here, but I want to really express my deep gratitude to you, Nick Malice, for sharing your purpose driven life with us today. I really hope everyone listening is inspired to make life one simple change that can help make a difference. I'm Alan Pavloski signing off for Legacy All Stars.