Future of Wealth: Tokenization, Liquidity, and Breaking Barriers with Tyler Vinson - Ep- 525

Just like with any investment, if it is, you know, a stabilized, low-risk, you know, type investment, you're going to get a lower return on it. If it's a development project or a redevelopment or maybe C-class apartments, something that has a little bit higher risk, then you're going to expect a higher return.

Welcome to Streams to Impact and be inspired to engage passionately in the work of your calling while achieving financial prosperity through multiple streams of high-yield returns on investment. to bring your dream of making a meaningful impact to reality. I'm your host, Dr. Allen, and I am delighted that you are joining us today. If you haven't yet, get a complimentary copy of our exclusive guide, High Yield Investment Blueprint: Secure 18%+ Returns in 60 Days. Go to our website, high That is www.highyieldblueprint.com. Just provide your email address and we'll send you a copy today. What if the future of wealth wasn't locked behind closed doors, but opened to you right now? In today's episode, Building the Future of Wealth: Tokenization, Liquidity and Breaking Barriers, I sit down with a leader who's making real estate investing more open, liquid, and limitless. You're going to want to lean into this one. So welcome to Streams to Impact. I'm Dr. Allen Lomax, psychology professor, alternative investor, and someone who knows what it's like to hit rock bottom. and rise stronger. After financial ruin, I found healing in an unexpected place, the quiet company of horses, and I rebuilt my life through passive, secure investing. This podcast is for high-achieving professionals and entrepreneurs who know deep down that you're meant for more than just a paycheck. So each episode brings you insights, From those turning income into influence and success into significance. Because at the end of the day, real wealth isn't just counted in dollars, it's measured in impact. So let's start building your future today. So just for a moment, imagine a world where investing in real estate is as simple and liquid as trading stocks. Tyler Vinson is making that vision a reality. As the CEO of reTokens, Tyler is leading the charge to transform real estate investing through blockchain technology, giving investors new access to liquidity and opportunity. With reTokens launch, one of the first digital trading platforms built exclusively for real estate-backed tokens, Tyler isn't just building a company. He's pioneering a movement that's reshaping the future of wealth building. So it's an honor to welcome you, Tyler, to our show today. So Tyler, like the spirit of Equus that inspires our community and our podcast, your journey is one of transcending boundaries and forging new paths. So can you take us back to the moment that first sparked your passion? for innovation, the spark that ultimately led you to pioneer RE tokens and reshape real estate investing?

Yeah, and, you know, I think I'd be amiss if I didn't answer this in kind of 2 pieces, one being the most profound moment in my career to lead me here, and then the most profound moment to lead me to really want to make impact through real estate and real estate tokenization specifically. So, you know, the former, we all remember the Great Recession, I'm sure. And I was in real estate at the time. And needless to say, it was getting hammered. I was in investment real estate. And I was also, I did real estate brokerage at the time for real estate investors. So it was all under the investment umbrella. Just some of it I was doing for my own portfolio and some I was helping others build their portfolio. And, you know, I remember getting a call from my mortgage broker at the time. It was August, summer 2008 for me and for my local area. And he just said, hey, Tyler, I've got some bad news. None of your deals are going to close. And I said, well, what do you mean none of them are going to close? I, you know, I just had twin daughters here 2 months ago. I got a 6-year-old son. I like, you know, that— you mean they're not going to close for a month or 2? And he said, no, they're not. They're not going to close at all.

Hmm.

And that was going to be acquisitions. That was also, you know, client deals. And it was my entire income. And also about the same time, or, you know, really a couple months down the road later, 2008, I was coming home and it was the first snow. It was actually December 17th, 2008. And I had tenants at the time. I think I had 7 or 8 houses and I had 4 of my tenants leave.

Mm-hmm.

And at that time, I didn't have the kind of, you know, income and reserve and net worth that I do Now. So I— that was a big deal. And I went and I visited these, and I wasn't sure what I was going to do. And on my way home on the freeway, a big fruit truck lost control and smashed into me and totaled my vehicle and injured me. And I was just out. So the economy had shut down, the markets had shut down, everything had shut down, and I really couldn't move out of my bed for a little while. Um, And, you know, I had these 3 young kids. I wasn't sure, you know, that I could even pay the mortgage. In fact, there, there was a month in between there where I didn't know how I was going to pay the mortgage. And I was literally crying in my bedroom, wondering how I was going to do that, brushing, brushing up my resume. Real estate's always been my life passion. But I, you know, in the words of somebody I'll leave nameless, you know, needed to get a real job. And not somebody that's in my life now. But anyway, so at that point in time, I thought, well, you know, you are, you know, you're in this position for a reason. And you, so you must not be that smart, but you are smart enough to know that you need to come from a mindset of abundance. Because even though I desperately need money to feed these young you know, these twin baby girls and my other son and pay the mortgage and all that. I knew that if I made choices in this very distinct moment for money, that it wasn't going to work out the right way in the long run. And a lot of you guys are probably familiar with the book Think and Grow Rich. And there's a story in there where a professor, I believe it was, needed $1 million for what he was doing. And he goes and he You know, gives a speech and, and just lives as if he was gonna get the million dollars, acts as if he did it. And so at the end of it, a banker comes up, says, you know, what would you really do with that million? And the next day he gets the million dollars. So I knew at that time I needed to come from a mindset of abundance. So I said to myself, even though I couldn't— I wasn't sure I was paying my mortgage the next month, I said, if you had a million dollars in the bank, What would you do? And I told myself, well, I'd be buying real estate. You know, I still believe in it and, and people are running from it. So I buy as much real estate as I could. And then I said to myself, well, how do you buy real estate and build wealth? Because that's not normally an income game. That's a wealth-building game. How do you do that and make money right now? And I created my entire real estate acquisition and business model that I still use to this day in that moment, in that very moment, and decided that with an abundance mindset, even though I had really no personal financial resources at the time, no banks were lending, no customers were out there, I came up with a model where I was basically my own customer. People still knew me and trusted me. And would lend money. I knew the seller finance game very, very well. So, I went out and found deals and had the seller finance them and brought private investors in that I paid a return to. These are going to be passive private investors. Sometimes, they were doing debt investments, sometimes equity investments. But from that moment, I built a multimillion-dollar portfolio from there on, which ultimately brought me financial freedom. So that was the most impactful day and moment and situation in my career, for sure. But what led to real estate tokenization, I'll make this part of the story a little shorter. I was coming off of a soccer field coaching my daughter's soccer. And a good friend of mine from high school, a gal comes up and lots of hugs and how you doing and good to see you. And she says, oh, it's been so Cool to watch what you've done in real estate and the success that you've had there. And she says, "You know, me and my husband, we've been working really hard, and we've been saving up money. And you know, we would love to invest with you." And we both kind of sat there and looked at each other, and she just said to me, "But I don't have enough money, do I?" And that was true because at the time I'd taken my career to a point where I only worked with accredited investors. There was a fifty thousand dollar minimum and all of that, and I still. I still work with accredited investors and love my accredited investor friends. And there's always a lot of meat on the bone there, but I really developed a passion. I just, my heart was broken for my friend. And I've always believed in being able to open up the opportunity for real estate investments specifically to more people, to everybody who really wants to try to get involved. And so, that was The moment where I'd started to learn about blockchain and real estate fractionalization, how you made ownership digital. And with my friend's kind of heartbreaking story there, that's where I realized that I felt my purpose was to step up and bridge this gap.

Tyler, thanks for sharing that story, a really compelling and interesting story. And having gone through that 2008 crisis myself, I know how challenging that can be and how challenging it is to actually in those moments to really look at that from an abundance mindset. And I have to admit that I certainly did not do that, certainly not immediately. And it was very challenging for me to overcome the depression and the setback and It was really a dark time. So I really appreciate and admire you from from the bed. You were really in a worse situation than I was in to really look at that whole situation from that abundance mindset. And I found it interesting the question that you actually ask yourself, and that is: If I had a million dollars, what would I be doing with that million dollars? And from that, you actually found. That pathway forward. But I know it was challenging times for you. But what, uh, what I would like us to go into here, Tyler, is certainly this aspect of, uh, the project that you're involved in now. And as you know, you mentioned one of the big hurdles in investing in alternative investments is, uh, is first of all, you have to have the wealth to do that. And, and then secondly, the big thing that has always been a problem in real estate is that aspect of liquidity. So how is it that this digital world is essentially working? And how is it that you're able to tokenize real estate?

Yeah, good questions. You know, really, it starts with the passing of the JOBS Act. And When the JOBS Act was passed, that loosened regulations on how people could raise capital for alternative investments or like real estate syndications. It gave a lot more latitude there. So, I think that was kind of the spark that led to the fire. And through technology and then ultimately blockchain technology, is where these two have really met. And, you know, as far as what we're doing in the secondary marketplace, it's really the fact that we're able to make the ownership digital that allows it to go to the playground for liquidity. Typically, when we do real estate syndications, or if you're an investor that that buys into a real estate syndication, a real estate deal with somebody else, you're buying these LLC membership units or shares, you could call them, and you have a certain amount based on what you invest. Well, when we make that ownership digital, give it a digital component, that's what tokenization is. And now you can actually hold those or custody them yourselves. Or you can have, you know, a custodian do that much easier. There's something, even though it's digital, it actually has a level of tangible form that can be seen, measured, moved around other than maybe just a subscription agreement. Nobody really gives stock certificates anymore or anything like that. And so what this allows it to do is it allows it to work in an electronic and digital manner, just like the stock market works today, where people aren't actually trading stock certificates and paper, they're doing it on a digital format. And what the blockchain does is it's really an immutable, meaning it can't be changed or hacked, and, you know, fraud prevention, permanent record, that type of It's an immutable digital ledger that allows these private real estate ownership shares to easily be seen, bought, sold, traded, and moved around. There is a lot of regulatory stuff behind the scenes to kind of make that all work, and I'm happy to talk about it. But just in general, that's, that's really what we're doing is allowing private shares of real estate to trade on an exchange just like a stock market, and that obviously adds a large liquidity component that these real estate investments haven't had in the past.

So if you could just break this down for me at the, at the second grade level, maybe even the kindergarten level. So how would this work if A syndicator is putting together their deal. They're ready to go out there to raise capital. They have the LLC in place, the property nailed down, and they're out there raising capital. What are they going to have to do that is different than what they have traditionally been doing?

Yeah, I don't think it's what they're going to have to do as much as it is what they don't have to do. anymore. Typically, to meet your description there, you're going to, you know, promote your offering and you're going to meet with investors. And if they decide that, you know, you're giving them— I would give binders out when I used to do this and they could flip through the binder and see what was going on. And then if they were interested, they would sign a commitment letter and then we would have another meeting. And when they're ready to move forward, they would sign something called a subscription agreement. Once I got that from them, I could, you know, send them the full legal document package. And, you know, it was normally about a 10-day to 2-week process if we were staying in touch and very manual. And I would, you know, keep the records. And then ultimately, that was it. Once they invested, I didn't really send them anything. I just kind of kept them in a software or a spreadsheet. And, and that, that was it. And we would have quarterly meetings. Well, today with our technology, like our platform, that's all done online. So they would have to wire the funds or bring in a cashier's check and things like that. Well, today, you can go to like retokens.com. And if you were interested in investing in a piece of real estate, then you could go in all of that, you know, the binder that I was talking about and all the legal documents and all those things are just in one spot. So at your leisure, you can go through that, view it, see the entire promotion, all the disclosure documents and everything. You can click on how much you would like to invest. It takes you through a process called KYC or know your customer, and then accreditation if you need to be accredited for it. But you can just invest right there online. You can have your own account. There's no pushing back and forth of the paperwork. It normally takes about 24 hours or so to verify the identity and accreditation and things like that. But once that happens, you get an email that says you're able to invest and you can go in and just, you know, use your bank account or whatever method you're investing with. And invest right there online. So for the issuer, the syndicator, to answer your question directly, is they're not having to shuffle the paperwork back and forth. They're not having to, you know, get signatures. All the documents and everything are all done e-sign, and they're all stored where everybody can view them and access them. There's a cap table, which is just basically something that shows who owns You know, what, how much of each investment. And so as an investor, you actually get a portal where you log in and you can see your investments there. So it's much more streamlined for the issuer as far as having things done electronically all in one place on the platform. And we actually also have AI integrated. We call it the Token Genius AI. Where the— this AI is specifically trained on this offering. And so any questions that prospective investors or current investors have on the deal, the offering, the property, the syndicator, sponsor, regulations, any of those things can be asked 24/7, 365. And because they're custom trained with compliance and all of those things as an issuer, You don't have to worry about, did I tell them this? Did I tell them that? Or if you have staff do it, hopefully they didn't say this, or hopefully they didn't say that. So it's really kind of an automation surrounding compliance. And in fact, in the digital world of these tokens, these ownership shares, we actually program the compliance right into the token. There's— you can come, you can program perks and benefits, all sorts of stuff. But when it comes to compliance, which is a really big deal because these are securities, you just put that right in the token. So that's another big lift that issuers and syndicators don't have is worrying about all these different compliance issues. They're actually just automated right into the token themselves. So it just simplifies and streamlines, you know, the whole process.

So what does a So what does the issuer do? I mean, they're going to have to do— they're going to have to put the syndication together, get the offering together, and then they come to you. Is that what happens?

And normally they're visiting us first and we will refer them to some of our resources. For example, if they're just putting together a syndication, which is a security for the first time, or maybe they already have one and they want to, you know, take it to the secondary market or tokenize it. We have a couple of different attorneys that specialize, that are real estate securities attorneys that specialize in the tokenization or the digital aspect. So normally what happens is we're doing a token discovery session with them. Maybe they sign up on our website and we talk with them about what they want to do and, and make sure that we can service them the right way. And then we'll get them connected with the right attorney where we've pre-negotiated prices. The attorney already knows, you know, what's going on so they can get a good deal and get it expedited. Once we get those legal documents, that's what we use to what we call mint the tokens or create the real estate security tokens. And from there, they're ready to raise capital. As investors come in and invest, they can distribute those ownership tokens to them.

It sounds like a win-win, certainly for the issuer and certainly for the investor. You mentioned that there could still be an accreditation process, so there could still be those same regulations there in place. So I guess as far as the regulatory environment goes, it's not really changing that much from the investor perspective. Am I understanding that correctly?

Well, I think there's a little bit to unpack here because you can sell to non-accredited as well and there's exemptions. So if your audience will forgive me for getting a little bit technical at the moment, I'll, I'll explain exactly who can invest and when they can invest for accredited and non-accredited. So first of all, when we create a security, there's really only 2 types of securities. One is a registered security that you register with the SEC, like an initial public offering, like, like a stock that goes on the public stock market. Well, most real estate investments and alternative investments, they find an exemption to registration. So all of these, you know, syndications that you see, most all of them are an exemption. And just to not go too far down the rabbit hole, one of the exemptions and the primary one that you see online is something called a Reg D or a Regulation D 506. And the reason I give that regulation is because that regulation only allows for accredited investors in what we call the primary. So the first time you create this syndication, it's called a primary raise. And if you use that exemption, then you do need to be accredited. There are a couple other exemptions that allow non-accredited investors, and I'm happy to touch on those. But I just want to walk this through how this original accreditation only becomes available to non-accredited. I think it's important. So we got the primary offering that's available to accredited investors and they go through that accreditation process. Well, what we're launching is a secondary marketplace. So like the NASDAQ and the stock markets, you see, those are secondary marketplaces where you have a shareholder selling to a shareholder. And that's exactly what we're doing in the real estate world. So you can actually sell these shares, these tokens that were originally only available to accredited investors. You can sell them to non-accredited investors on the secondary market under another exemption called Rule 144. And under Rule 144, after one of the, one of the pillars of that rule is that there needs to be a 12-month lockup period or maybe a 12-month seasoning, you might call it. So after the accredited investor has invested and held the investment for 12 months, Now they can take it and sell it on this secondary market, this real estate exchange, to non-accredited investors. And that's how they gain access to these very same investments that were at one time only available to accredited investors.

So initially the offering, if it's a 506, it's going to be the primary offering and limited only to accredited investors. And there's a seasoning period of 12 months, and then after that, essentially that token becomes liquid and they can resell it. Is that— am I getting the picture here?

Yeah, from a high level, that's accurate. Yep.

And when they resell it, it doesn't have to be sold to an accredited investor, and I'm assuming they can They can break up that token and sell portions of it. Is that correct?

Or it's possible, but that's really, you know, not how we do it. And by the way, the resale does need to be on an SEC-regulated exchange, like what we'll have. You can't just do this on the side on your own, really. You need a regulated exchange.

You can't just go down to the restaurant and sell it to your best friend.

Yeah, I mean, if you both bring your attorneys, you might be able to get yourself through it. But yeah, typically not. Now, as far as answering your question on breaking up the token, it's a good one. Technically, you can. In the projects that we've tokenized, we haven't. What we're doing is we're creating a lot of tokens in the first place. A simple example is let's say somebody has a $10 million offering that they're doing. We will often create 10 million tokens, 10 million shares. So when they go sell one token, they're selling it for $1, $2, or $5, or in some cases, $0.50, you know, depending on how many tokens they did in the first place. So we just haven't come across the need to further break that down because the token values in the projects we're doing have really been in between, you know, say $0.50 and $5. Now, there's some people that may take the perspective of having very few tokens and having those have a larger dollar amount, in which case you may consider breaking that down further. But the approach we've taken just to simplify it is let's create all these tokens up front, and then you have the flexibility, you know, to trade them at a very, very low dollar amount. Because right now the smallest investment size is still $1,000. It doesn't need to stay that way. I think we'll see once we launch this secondary market them sell for, for much lower than that. But it may not be You know, well, it's not always worth the seller's effort if they're, you know, say, going to sell $100 or less of a, you know, particular interest in the real estate.

So going back to the primary offering, if it was a 506, I'm assuming that you could, what, have— is it 30 or 35? I don't remember. Non-accredited investors, would that— is that going to work the same way with the tokenization?

It is on the secondary market in particular. Yeah, a Reg D 506 does allow for 35 non-accredited investors to participate. But what you can't do in the primary with the 506 is you can't market it out there. You can't promote it, which is okay if you already have established relationships in your own investor network. Then you guys can do a deal. And then, yeah, after that lockup period, you'll be able to go to the secondary market under 144 the exact same way. And there is— well, I'll just— for somebody that wants to nerd out a little bit on the securities, there is something called the Reg A+ Tier 2. It's a little more stringent, but it does allow for non-accredited investors right up front. We see that less because it takes longer. It's much more expensive. There's a lot more filing involved. But I just thought I'd mention that so your listeners knew that there was kind of a third option that's there.

Fascinating processes there. A totally new way to look at that for sure. I would be interested in going into the regulations on the backside of that, but we really are not going to have time to do that today. So I think I'm getting the picture here that the way that this is really going to democratize access to high-quality investors because, well, like your friend that came to you, she may not be able to invest in that initial investment, but she could wait a year and then have access to just about any of these investments. Of course, the primary owner of that is, of course, going to have to be willing to sell that. And I'm suspecting that they are going to probably sell it at an increased rate as within a year's time that property has seasoned and is probably worth more. And so they're going to expect more for that token. Is that correct?

Yeah, I think that that is hopefully the way it goes is the net operating income, which is how these things are typically typically valued has increased, and so that the value of the token has increased. I also think, you know, real estate has something called an illiquidity discount, and that just means because it's not liquid, it typically trades at a discount compared to more liquid assets. Well, that obviously will start to fade away as real estate becomes more liquid. But, you know, here's how I've talked to my employees who are interested in investing in projects that we do and friends that are interested in. Professional investors and accredited investors, you know, a lot of times we may want, you know, returns that— or are able to get returns that are higher, you know, double-digit and so forth. But that's not really available to my friend. She is There's no real double-digit type things. So when I talk to folks like her, if they're able to get, say, a 5% cash-on-cash return— and I'm not saying that that's a number, some may be much better, you know, whatever the case— but let's just say that she's able to get a 5% cash-on-cash return, but she can do it at her own investment level. Maybe that's $10,000. And she becomes a real owner of real real estate with the real upside every year, with the real K-1 tax benefits, real cash flow. She's— they'll line up for 4 city blocks for that. And the reason is, is because they don't have access to those types of investments.

Mm-hmm.

And so when it comes to the non-accredited investor or buying on the secondary, Unquestionably, there'll be margin from those accredited investors that first got in the deal, as there should be. They're taking more risk typically and investing a higher dollar amount typically. So there is a margin or a delta that will be made on the secondary market as those become more liquid. But as the market continues to become more robust, that will actually start to shrink up a little bit as well, because we absolutely expect You know, there's the small end that we've been talking about, but also family office, private equity, institutional who come invest a lot of money and they expect a certain amount of returns. They'll be investing in that as well. And that helps with the liquidity. So it is very much project specific, right? Just like with any investment, if it is, you know, a stabilized, low risk, you know, type investment, you're going to get a lower return on it. If it's a development project or redevelopment, or maybe C-class apartments, something that has a little bit higher risk, then you're going to expect a higher return. I think the thing that investors should consider when they look at these, because you do want to, you know, analyze what's going on, and you'll have access to that information, is, well, in my investment cycle, What's best for me? There's really 3 main parts of real estate to consider outside of risk level. Risk level is going to be, you know, who's the operator, which is in my opinion the most important thing always— who's the syndicator, the operator— and then where's, you know, the location. Is it in an area that, that, you know, has growth surrounding it and things like that? But once you get beyond that, you're going to look at, okay, What's the cash-on-cash return? How much cash flow is this putting out? What am I going to get when I put a dollar in? Do I get $1.10 back per year on a cash flow basis? So cash-on-cash return. The equity upside, or what we call in real estate a lot of times the IRR, internal rate of return, or I like to calculate it into an annualized return on investment, which takes into consideration the cash flow And the equity. But anyway, the equity upside. And then third is the tax benefits. One nice thing about real estate is there's depreciation and there's a lot of tax loss surrounding accelerating some of that depreciation. So you may actually receive cash flow from the investment, but when you get the tax document called a K-1, it may actually show breakeven or loss. So you put real money in your pocket, but when you file your taxes, it's not— it's showing up as, as, you know, against your income. You're not having to claim that income. It's showing as, as, you know, a loss or lesser income anyway because you're offsetting it with depreciation. So depending on, you know, that's why these are securities and you, you know, need to deal with regulated platforms like us. There's— we're SEC regulated and, and, or Or shortly here. And same with selling them, you know, Series 7 license and all the, all the regulated stuff. But at the end of the day, it's still an investment. And what makes the most sense for me? What's the most important? Where am I at my cycle? Am I in a growth phase where I really, you know, wouldn't mind taking on a little more risk for a little more upside? Because a lot of those deals don't cash flow in the early years, but you get the bigger payout at the end. Or are you at a place in your cycle where it's like, nope, I just want to get a good steady monthly income off of what I'm investing and, you know, the tax benefits would be great. And so very investor dependent.

Right.

Yeah.

Well, very fascinating. Very interesting. So the way to find Tyler is at www. So that's www.retokens.com. So Tyler, it has been a pleasure having you, been very enlightening. I'm sure myself included and our viewers and listeners have many more questions still to come as we As we go through this process of transition. But for my closing question here, where do you— you're a pioneer in this, and this is just coming into the real estate markets. Where do you see wealth building, not just real estate investing, but wealth building and financial independence actually going for professionals, entrepreneurs who are interested in developing wealth, but also in preserving wealth? Where's it going to go in the next 10 years?

Yeah, well, I think the one thing for sure is you'll have more control and more information regarding your investments. In the past, you haven't had the for real estate, for example, you don't have any control as a limited partner in there. Now you will. You'll be able to diversify after 12 months or so. We also have the digital asset world that's coming into play, right? Whether you want to, you know, bring up cryptocurrency, which this isn't, but is certainly a digital asset out there, like, you know, Bitcoin, for example. On this exchange, people will be able to use Bitcoin. And so I think you'll start to see the integration of different types of currencies or digital assets be traded more freely. And I think you'll see people have a little more control over what's going on if they want that. And so, I still think you'll have the different investment options, whether that's bonds or stocks or real estate. But now, some of these previously illiquid assets like real estate and even you know, art in a lot of cases, and some of these things will all have this digital component where we can trade. So, we're all used to dealing in dollars today. But I think in 10 years, you may have 5 to 10 different asset types in a wallet, a digital wallet that you can actually, you know, trade around depending on what you want to hold and the wealth that you want to build, whether you're going for, you know, cash flow or preservation of wealth or, you know, growth. You'll have a lot more control in your hands and a lot more options to be able to invest. So that's, that's how I see it going.

Yeah. Interesting world ahead of us here. Well, thank you so much, Tyler, for being with us. And once again, viewers and listeners, you can find Tyler at www.

Retokens.com.

I hope you've enjoyed today's episode. I certainly have, and if you have, please take a moment to like, share, and subscribe, and we'll see you in the next episode.

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