Winning Without Losing Yourself with Cecilia (Cece) Leung - Episode - 567

Everyday life is so hectic, especially life and business is so hectic. We hear so many things, there's so many noises, it's really hard to focus and really hear what you actually want. But we do all have it, right? Our intuition. So I think, you know, of course numbers are good, you know, for analytics and advisors are good. But ultimately, I think we know, we always have this gut feel, right? Whether we like someone, something is right or wrong. And the other stuff are just our tools to help After the win, the exit, the IPO, the applause fades.

Who are you? Today we explore why success can feel strangely hollow and what leaders miss when everything finally works. Welcome to Streams to Impact, brought to you by SeedTalker Capital. I'm your host, Dr. Allen. Most professionals we meet are thriving in their careers, yet still trading time for money. And often preparing for major liquidity events without understanding their deep implications. That's why we built a different path. After meeting with more than 750 operators, fewer than 1% earn a place inside of our vault. This system is designed to protect capital while helping investors maintain clarity, agency, and long-term alignment. Because the real danger isn't just financial loss; it's reaching success only to realize you've compromised the very life you were trying to build. Before we begin, I invite you to claim your free gift Beyond the Paycheck: The Financial Clarity Compass to Financial Independence, and you can access that at www.go.steedtucker.com. Forward slash beyond-paycheck. Before we go into today's show, just a brief disclaimer. All information shared on Streams to Impact is for educational purposes only. It is not intended as investment, financial, legal, or tax advice. All investments carry risk, including the potential loss of 100% of investment capital. You're encouraged to consult your legal, accounting, and tax advisors before making Investment decisions. If you enjoy today's show, we would be greatly appreciative if you could like, share, and subscribe so that others can take advantage of the information brought to you here today. What happens after the win when the numbers say success, but something inside feels disoriented? Well, today's guest lives at that exact intersection. Cecilia, better known as Cece, Lunge is a CPA and the founder of Rich and Sassy, where she helps founders and executives navigate IPOs and exits without losing their autonomy, identity, or sense of purpose. By blending financial rigor with leadership insight and philosophical depth, Cece works with leaders at the moment Where success stops being theoretical and starts becoming deeply personal. So welcome to the show, Cece. So glad you're with us today. So let's start off with, you've seen leaders reach enormous financial success and they still feel lost. What actually happens to people internally after the big win?

Yeah, thank you so much for having me today, Allen. It's nice to be on your podcast. Um, yeah, so I've felt like I've seen it over and over again, even when, you know, like a little bit about my background, you know, I was born and raised in Hong Kong. Uh, so the idea, you know, back in the days growing up was always about survival, you know, money represents practicality, responsibility, and frugality. So I always feel like, well, yeah, like if you have money, you could solve a lot of problems, then life would be— Amazing ever after, right? So I moved to Canada when I was 16 years old. So then the perspective completely changed. I saw a lot more growth and opportunity. And on the Western world, people see money differently. So later on, I worked in Wall Street for over 20 years now. And again, I felt like, well, even personally, I felt like, yeah, if we can make a lot of money, then it must— life must be easier. But the more, as I rise up the rank and see all these executive high earners, it seems like money doesn't naturally just solve all the problems. It actually creates more choices, options. It just becomes more complex. So I think, um, it's all about— it all comes down to decision-making. you know, and structure of your life. So that's, that's where the more I see people, you know, we hear this all the time, right? Oh, people reach a certain level of success. Why are they not happy? And the people who maybe start from nothing and get to that level feel the same way. They almost feel guilty to, to tell people that, yeah, no, I'm not happy even though I have millions and millions of dollars. Right. So then But I think it doesn't matter in business deals or wealth and tax strategies conversation. What I hear time and time again is people just are very scattered. And also, you know, the advice, of course, they have so many advisors. They have their legal counsel, they have their financial advisor, they have their coach, they have their therapist. Right. But I feel like when you talk to each of them, the advice becomes very scattered. So that's what inspired me to do this work, to really, really want to bring everything together. Because a lot of times we talk about money, but then a lot of times when people can't make decisions, doesn't matter either because money ties to their identity or ego, it keeps them spiraling.

A lot.

And so they can't make a decision. And if your mind keeps on spiraling, thinking about certain things, looping, that's leaking energy, that's money. So yeah.

Yeah, yeah, that is for sure. And I do see people freezing up, people who have a lot of capital, and they come to make a a $50,000 investment, which to them is almost nothing, and they just freeze up and they have to analyze and reanalyze and, and look into every little single aspect of that before they finally feel comfortable pushing the button. Well, you, you say high-stakes decisions like IPOs and exits are life events, not just financial. So what do leaders really misunderstand about that moment in time?

I think a lot of them feel like if we have to reach a certain goal, there must be sacrifice. And of course, there will be sacrifice to a certain extent, right? But it doesn't mean you just kind of give up that certain period of time of your life. For example, a lot of people went through an acquisition, usually takes 16 to 18— well, usually takes, uh, yeah, it takes about, let me see, like 16 to 24 months really. And so a lot of times people feel like, oh, after that, then I'll have this money, then I can take care of my family, then our, you know, we can do all these sorts of things, right? But ironically, I've seen so many things, especially when it comes to family. Like, I've seen divorces happen right after these, you know, events happen. Or, you know, people have aging parents, or also sort of like just family, or it doesn't matter, family or loved ones or personal issues, right? They just kind of ignore. Even some of them including their personal health issues. So they just kind of ignore it. They feel like, well, it will get better soon. Right. So you kind of just like keep grinding, keep grinding, keep grinding. And when that day comes, it's almost like, you know, we think of our machine, we think of our body, or think of, uh, yeah, think of our body as a machine. And of course we can keep, keep on going, but until it stops, then, you know, some people get sick and, you know, we see it all the time, uh, from people around us. But I think when it happens to other people, we just feel like, oh, that just happened. It kind of hits you for a second. But then when it actually happens to you, then it hits differently. So I think people, you know, like always feel like, oh yeah, you know, when we get there, it'll get better. So they're just kind of just not living the moment, not living today.

Yeah.

And then it gets there and they're so used to just postponing that.

Mm-hmm.

They can't come to the present moment and enjoy it. Yeah, it can be frightening in the present moment reality oftentimes. So in terms of even when everything is technically correct, sometimes it still leads to deeply unsatisfying outcomes. So how do you advise leaders to prepare for these moments of coming to the end of this long drawn-out 16 to 24 months period when they've been in a lot of respects living on edge because you never know until it closes whether it's actually going to close?

Right.

And so you're in that respect living on edge, you're always looking looking towards that day that it's coming, and, um, and then it comes and everything technically went correct, but you still feel very unsatisfied. How do you prepare people for that moment?

I think that's actually a really, really great question. So because a lot of people spend such a long time to prepare for these events, it doesn't matter if it's IPO or M&A, right? So at the very end, I've seen deals fall through at the very end, which at the time it felt like, oh my God, you know, that's the end of it. Like, I cannot believe it, like waste of our money. And, you know, people just kind of wanted to really want to get it done and move on with their lives. Right. And, you know, after so many negotiations, usually, especially the last couple of months before the deal finalized and closed, uh, usually when Um, there's all sorts of issues that came up, but in hindsight, when I see so many different outcomes, so it's actually a good thing. Sometimes a deal doesn't happen. I mean, some people will still push through it. Meaning, for example, it's never really so much about money. It, it is, but sometimes it's also about people. Funny enough, because a lot of deals, for example, it looks good on paper. You know, the revenue number makes sense, the projections and everything makes sense. Right. But all these CEOs actually don't get along. So you kind of like, for, but you do have to work with the person, like work with the team or the person that you're going to bring into this new company, you know, the new formation. And so people will be like, yeah, we'll figure it out. Right. Then, but, but let's just say 2 scenarios here. Right. Which I've seen. One is that, you know, you still push through it, figure out the people problem, we'll figure it out. But once you like, let's say it's a merger, right? So 2 companies become one, there's all sorts of issues came up. Because every company has its own culture, leadership style, and all that. You try, and then of course, then you try to fix the problem, hire coaches, and then, you know, and then there's all this ego involved, you know, and then you try to buy out the other person and all that. That's just a waste of time. You're not really doing any productive work, but spend and waste so much time on these issues, right? On the other hand, I've seen people saw it, uh, saw the issue, similar issue, And at the end of it, uh, for whatever reason, they said the price doesn't make sense. You know, they kept trying to negotiate. It didn't work out. It just ended there. Actually turned out to be so much better. Then you looked for different options, different companies to buy or different strategies to continue to grow. And usually it turns out so much like the outcome is so much better. But I feel like most people, when you're In the weeds, so to speak. You don't, because you're just so tired, you know, like after 16, 24 months, you just like wanted to sign the thing and, you know, get the money and move on with your life. But, and you think your life will get better because you have that money. You have like kind of the scenario in your head, how it's going to turn out. But reality is it's just creating more problems that you probably don't want to see yet, but you will have to resolve it in reality.

Yeah, well, you talk about this aspect of judgment versus advice. So how does a leader know when they're outsourcing judgment instead of actually exercising it?

I think a lot of times when you look at a lot of successful people or CEO people who have, who have lots of responsibility who have to make decisions all day long, not just for themselves, but for the company, for the people. Because when you make decisions for the companies, actually, you know, there's tons of people, you know, employees and everybody relying on you. Right. So those people, they have a very clear mind. Like their intuition is pretty strong. So sure. You know, they need, they need advisors to give them like a different perspective or coaches to help them see their blind spots. But I think generally a lot of them have their own practice, which is part of what I do with leaders now is to make sure, you know, to encourage, to really take some time for themselves to clear their mind. Because everyday life is so hectic, especially life and business is so hectic, right? We hear like, we hear so many things or so many noises, really hard to focus and really hear what the, what you actually want, but we do all have it, right? Our intuition. So I think, You know, of course numbers are good, you know, for, for analytics and advisors are good, but ultimately I think we know, we always have this gut feel, right? Whether we like someone, something is right or wrong. And the other stuff are just, you know, uh, our tools to help us to make better decisions.

Yeah, that is, that is true. I think we do all have intuition. It's generally pretty strong. But we tend to silence that so often in this day of science and reason and always undermine our own intuition. And I know in my case that that doesn't always turn out very well because, I don't know, we're just taught not to listen to that, and that's unfortunate, I think. For women, and particularly purpose-driven leaders, whether they are men or women, how does success quietly lead to self-erasure? And what does reclaiming authority actually look like?

Yeah, I think, like, for whatever I do right now, I have gone through it myself. I felt like getting out of the corporate world, getting out of Wall Street, when you start building a company, you learn so— I think I speak for most people, if not everybody, you learn so much about yourself because kind of like, you know, there's so many decisions needs to be made. And also the people that I work with, right? I think you see a lot of true character review. Um, so I think during the process, I think generally like the first one, people— why I'll speak for my own story. When I launched my first company, uh, during COVID about 5, 6 years ago, I was excited to have all this freedom to do my own thing. And I always overdeliver. Because I just felt like, you know, like I love my clients and all that. But I think in hindsight, uh, just because I say yes to a lot of things, I turned out to attract a lot of people who don't really value my service, but just take from me. So then I asked myself, okay, why do I do that? Uh, why do I have to keep proving myself, you know, as if my 20-plus years Wall Street experience is not enough? So, you know, so I felt like it comes back from where I came from, you know, when I was younger, um, I was— I came from a very frugal, uh, family. So in Hong Kong, you know, like all— I was born in a very traditional Asian family. So we were taught to be frugal and work hard, be responsible. So working hard, uh, and seize every opportunity that comes our way is kind of the way we were taught. And so I embrace everything, you know, whenever people give me a chance, I wanted to do above and beyond. Right. Which I actually later on recognized is a pattern that I always overgive, over-function, which sure is a pattern, but it's also, I believe it's also a gift to protect. Just so, you know, like I don't not want to do that because it makes me happy to do a good job. But at the same time, I feel like you have to do it for the people who actually will appreciate it, who value your service. You know, so things like that. And again, like, especially for women, I feel like also setting boundaries, we get, you know, all these different lessons about like how— what was instilled to us as a child and then growing up, are we still doing it? Which I didn't even see it when I was doing it because I was like, of course I'm not doing it. I'm just doing a good job. Why is it so wrong? Why do I have to explain to people? Right. But again, it's not so much about wrong. It's just, again, I think if it has to align with the right people, right client, right team member, um, to make everything work. So when I said earlier about building a 7-figure firm, um, so 2 years ago, I think when I reached that level, I felt really, really empty, you know, because, um, So technically at that time, you know, when I reached 7-figure firm, I felt, I felt really guilty about like, why do I not feel excited? I feel safer in the sense that like I have more money, but, and I have everything to show, right? Like I can show people, yeah, I have a team, I have this product, I have this and this and that, right? I have everything to show for. And so it kind of got me into this journey about Um, like, what do I actually want? What do I actually need? Right. And of course, when you reach 7-figure level, uh, people will be like, well, now you're at a different level. It's almost like playing at the Olympic Games, right? You need different coaches to optimize your life. You know, if you have trauma, things like that, you need to like resolve it. So, you know, then, then of course I get to the higher level, you know, to get the different advisors and all that. But I realized ultimately, It ultimately brings me back to— it's not so much like a spiritual side of things. It's more about kind of growing up the idea. You know, in our culture, in Confucius, the idea is always we should always start with ourselves, you know, the foundations within ourselves. Because so often, you know, every day you hear people every day, it's like, well, we want to change the world, right? Yeah. Okay. But our culture value always taught us, you know, everything starts from within. There's actually a saying, right? Everything starts from within. So that's your foundation. That's your anchor. Then, you know, you make changes around your loved ones, people that are close to you, family, friends, community. Right. Then you continue to expand outward to your community, to your country, and then to the world, kind of like that. Right. So I think it kind of brings me back to myself, like, what do I need? And to keep asking these philosophical questions, because I mean, I felt like I've optimized my life, you know, to, to the best I know how, you know, I've done everything. Why am I so stressed? That's impossible, you know? So, which is why, you know, part of, um, like I work with, um, Dr. K, who is a philosophical counselor, uh, which not people know about these things, which I think is very important. Uh, he's also an executive advisor for our company and he helped me so much to really bring me back to my center and ask this question, why do you want what you want? Who told you all that? What are these assumptions that shape your decisions? And, you know, talk about, you know, the meaning of life. What, what was I born to do really? Right. These kinds of deep questions that we don't ask ourselves often, which I think it helps so much because especially last year, there's so many things happen. So my parents got into a car accident and then my dad went into ICU and stayed in the hospital a couple months and then he passed away. So it's almost like, you know, when he was here, I thought about these questions all the time. But then when it hit me, all these questions kind of hit me deeper. Like, what was I born to do? You know, like, and I thought about all these sacrifices he made and—

Yeah.

So I thought about, you know, when people say all these lines, right? Oh, we're building something bigger than ourselves. But when we think about, you know, when I think about my parents, when I think about, you know, like why we moved to Canada from Hong Kong and all these different places, you know, all the sacrifices our parents or ancestors made for us, like, then I remember, you know, there's a legacy, you know, everybody sacrificed before us. And now I need to build something and do something to honor them, to continue this. So that's going to give you more power to do things. Yeah. Yeah.

That's so important to return to our centers and not always easy questions to ask. That's for sure. Well, for our last question here, when someone is standing at a major inflection point, what's one question they should ask themselves that no spreadsheet can actually answer?

It might seem a simple question, but it's actually pretty deep. I think they should ask themselves, What, what do you really want and why do you want it? I think it, to, to a lot of people, they can tell you a bunch of stuff, but when they're quiet, because I've gone through the same exercise myself, right? You can say, oh yeah, because I want more money, then I can do this. I can do this. You know, I can go on fancy vacation. I can, you know, take my family to this and this and that. Right. But really, and then we probably, a lot of people that I heard from, they would say, oh, I just wanted to be happy and all that. But if you just wanted to be happy, happy can be so simple. You know, it doesn't require millions of dollars. Right. And I feel like a lot of people, especially, it's really funny. Like recently I was, I was looking at kind of minimum pay. Uh, in New York. And I was like, oh, how do people survive? You know, then I kind of look at like different people, like their expenses and all that kind of stuff. And when you look at even million-dollar earners, which there are quite a lot at the corporate world, right? People said they're broke. So then when you look at why are they broke, right? Well, because they have several houses, all their kids go to private school. They might have like, who knows what, right? All these expensive hobbies and cars and all that stuff. stuff that needs to fund this lifestyle, which doesn't— I'm not even sure if it makes them, you know, so happy or just the thing to do that they have to, you know, show other people. Um, yeah. So I feel like the most important is really to ask, like, what do you really want and why do you want it? And I think it's a very, very important— it's a very deep question that needs to be answered. Discreetly, not just casually. Because like I said, casually you can name all sorts of things. But really, people said they wanted to be happy, but it can be so simple. It doesn't require a lot of money.

That's probably a good place to start. Really, what does make you fulfilled and happy in life? And it almost never is money. Well, today's conversation reminds us that success isn't just about winning the game. It's about recognizing whether the game you're playing still belongs to you. Well, Cece shared powerful insights into how leaders can stay grounded, autonomous, and aligned at the very moments where pressure and praise are the highest. To learn more about Cece's work and explore resources for navigating high-stakes leadership, Transitions with Clarity and Confidence. You can find Cece at www.richandsassy.com, and you can find this information in our show notes as well. Well, at Stetacher Capital, we help professionals build wealth in a way that supports, not replaces, their sense of purpose and agency. So, if you're ready to think beyond the paycheck and toward long-term alignment, be sure to download your free copy of Beyond the Paycheck: The Financial Clarity Compass to Financial Independence. And you can find that at www.go.steedtalker.com/beyond-paycheck. So, if this episode resonated with you, please like, share, and subscribe. And until next time, keep building streams that create real impact.

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