Ep. 46: The Secrets to Selling on Webinars & Live Stages with Colin Boyd

I said, 4,000. He didn't blink an eye. Like, he's like, that's totally fine, we can do that. And then at the end I go, oh, I forgot to ask how many people are going to be at this presentation because I'd never spoken before professionally, never been paid. And he goes, oh, there probably be five, five and a half thousand live at the presentation.

Welcome to the Start Tiny Podcast. I. I'm your host, Ali bjork, and in 2019, I launched my first ever tiny offer for $27 and have since generated over $5 million in revenue after starting an industry wide low ticket revolution. I've been helping other entrepreneurs launch and scale their own Tiny offers. And on this podcast, we pull back the curtain on exactly how they're doing it so that you can do it too. What is up, everybody? I am so excited that you're here for a very special, special episode of the Tiny Offer Revolution podcast. I'm here today with somebody who is a great friend of mine all around amazing human, someone that I've gotten to know really well over the last few years. And I am so pumped for him to get to tell you how he is using a Tiny Offer in his business as well as all of the other amazing things that he's been doing. And our guest is named Colin Boyd. His official bio would tell you that he is an international speaker, speaker, trainer, coach. He's been running his business since 2017 and he's originally from Australia. So I love the way he says Tiny Offers. It's not Tiny Offer, it's Tiny Offa, which is. You'll get to hear plenty of that later. But right now he is primarily running his flagship program called Cell from Stage Academy and he's got some really, really cool things going on. So all of that being said, we are going to kick off the episode with Colin and he is going to be sharing all about the secrets to selling on webinars and live stages. That's his jam. And without further ado, here is Colin. All right, welcome to the show. Colin Boyd. I am so excited that you're here and if you wouldn't mind in your own words, introducing yourself to everybody who's listening and telling us a little bit about you and your business.

Thanks, Ali. Yeah. Hey, it's great to be here. Great to be back. I know we've had a previous episode before. That's right, yeah. So I help coaches and course creators create presentations that sell. That's the core of it. So presentations like a webinar or a live Presentation and really helping people increase their conversions when they speak.

That's awesome. Do you feel like that's different than being a speaking coach? Like it's more specifically about sales and how did, how is it different? I guess I didn't understand that for a while when I first met you, so I'd love to just jump in there.

I think it's quite different. And a lot of the time when, when I work with, especially when I work with private clients who are at like a pretty, like a mult, usually like a million dollar, multi million dollar level, they'll say to me something like I've never, I haven't found anyone who does exactly what you do. And that is they were looking for not a speaking coach. They were looking for someone who would help them become more a. Someone who would get clients from their presentations. And so I think one of the biggest differences is there's a lot of speaking coaches out there. And I think getting a speaking coach and doing speaker training is so powerful. But the problem with it is you're going to get a lot of claps but not many clients. And so the difference that I found was I was originally a professional speaker. So I was on the speaking circuit for about probably eight or nine years. I would travel around, you know, speak at like big corporate conferences. Like I was the dude who would come in for 45 minutes and RA everyone up and share some ideas. And that was great. But the problem was I quickly saw that it's nice to get the claps and, and stuff, but it doesn't like lead to much. And so that was when I started getting obsessed of like, okay, what's the difference between a speech that just gets claps and one that actually leads to clients? And that was when I started understanding the like what type of content to put in there and how to finish the speech and how to even design the whole speech. And, and so I started doing these corporate presentations but in a different way. And what was fascinating was people started, other speakers started to come to me and be like, Colin, how on earth did you just do that presentation? And then you actually made an offer and like no one else is making an offer or you know, at these conferences or it would lead to like a massive consulting gig or scaling. So like I did tons of work with Hewlett Packard. This is like back in the day and like scaling like online courses through like a significant like thousands of their employees and all this sort of stuff. And they were like, how are you doing that? And that was when I realized That I wanted to really hone in on the difference between just being a speaker and being someone who really sells from the stage in a non pushy way. I tracked a lot of females. I would say like 85. If I. I go into my Instagram following, literally it's like 8020. I have women that's more than me.

I'm like 60. If I look at my stats, it's like 60, 40. That's so fun.

Yeah, it's crazy.

And you say that so confidently too. I attract a lot of women anyway.

I joke with my wife that I should rename my program the Sisterhood because whenever I jump on a coaching call, there's, you know, there's like a hundred faces and then the one token guy in the whole. In the whole audience. Yeah. So. But the reason why I bring that up is the style that I like is not the old school, like closer style. That's not my style. I prefer to look at the presentation as the whole sale, but do it in a way that's not aggressive and more creates desire. So it's that sort of energy.

Oh, I love that. How do you do that? I mean, I don't want you to give away all your trade secrets, obviously, but like some. Is it when you build it through the whole presentation, is it about stories and like bringing. Making them have desire for what you're selling without even really realizing what's happening?

Yeah. So I've got this concept called infusion selling, which is essentially combining speaking and selling at the same time. And so people tend to sit on one side of the spectrum. So there's like the hardcore salespeople who are, you know, they're just. Their presentations are very kind of salesy, you know, very high. You know, Mr. Prospect, if you're going down, you know, like telling prospects, you know, it's just the way they do it, it just feels icky. There's like no value at all. Right.

Yeah.

Now the. With that as well is that it does get sales. Like if you go down that avenue, you can actually, you know, sell it because it's very sales driven. But then there's the other side of the spectrum where most of my clients sit on, which is they see it as a presentation. They deliver a lot of value, a lot of content, a lot of how to. And then they whack a offer on the end and it feels really awkward in the transition. It becomes like the whole energy shifts at the end and they feel awkward. And then no one, not many people buy.

Yeah. Or they get Some nice energy shift before, it's like, oh, now I have to sell. Oh, crap. Like that. It totally, you know, like gotten past that. But I remember before, like, I would have the teaching part and then I'd be like, oh, no, it's the sales part. And I would like rewatch recordings. I'm like, talking faster and really nervous and like my. It was like two totally different presentations.

Yeah. There isn't like a synergy between the two. Right, I agree. And so that's the other side of the spectrum. And that's usually where most of my people who work with me fit. And so for me, it's. It is really learning to find that balance, which is putting on the salesperson hat of, of I'm here to make an offer. But it's, it comes from a totally different intention. And so I feel like the old school kind of way of doing it was very driven by sales sale, Sales sell. And where my intention is, we have an offer that is actually a sacred place and I'm going to protect it. So I don't want everyone joining. I want the right people joining. And so it's from that place you design the presentation so that, yes, it creates desire for the offer and it's aligned with the offer, but it comes energetically from a very different place of not trying to, like, close everyone. It's trying to actually attract the right people into the offer so that when you make the offer, I mean, you still have to close. Like, you still have to make an offer. It's not just, you know, would you maybe you would maybe like to join our program? Like, if, you know, if you have time, but you probably don't.

Yeah, it's, it's. If you want, it's fine.

Like, you still have to close. Right. You still have to ask for the sale.

Yeah.

But energetically, it comes from a very different place. And so I feel like even that makes a big difference. And yes, from a tactical perspective, there's a lot of storytelling, there's a lot of still high value, but it's, it's. There's this idea which I call above the line and below the line. And essentially, if you drop below the line of too much detail in your presentation, you'll lose the sale. And so it's one of the, one of the, the concepts that we teach in our academy, which is when you're above the line, you're telling stories, you're sharing case studies, you're sharing concepts and models and frameworks, and really, like, it's still helpful, valuable Stuff. But as soon as you go into too much detail, people get overwhelmed and you actually lose the sale.

Yeah, I remember hearing that from you way back one time I was asking you the question of, like, how do I know if I'm over teaching? Because I know I used to do that. I have a ton of students that are probably still doing that, and they just don't understand the concept of shifting somebody's beliefs on a webinar instead of just teaching them the whole time. And I remember you said that if I started going into step by step detail, then it was too much. So if I started, you know, listing first, you're going to do this, and then second, and then third, you're like, that's how you know you're teaching. And I was like, oh, I do that a lot. Like, my whole webinar is like, this is how you start your ads and blah, blah, blah. Like, so just even making some of those shifts has really helped. So that's. That's awesome. So we go way back. Like, how did you even get into speaking in the first place? Because a lot of people who are listening, they're experts at something, you know, they've like, or they want to be an expert in a certain topic that they've mastered. So how did you. You have, like, this super mastery now based on almost a niche within a niche. But how did you start speaking in the first place?

I mean, I wish it was more strategic, but I literally had a. I was a part of a community, which I'm a big advocate of, you know, joining, like, being part of paid programs. I was a part of a paid program when I first started. And yes, I was spending more than I was earning. A lot of people, A lot of people say to me, oh, my gosh, like, I'm. I'm a coach, and I'm. I'm spending way too much on my education. I'm not earning enough. It's like, yeah, that's. That's how you start. Like, you invest in. Like, if you start a brick and mortar business, you're gonna. You're gonna outlay $250,000 before you even make a sale.

Right, Right.

And so I. I just wanted to address that right up front.

Yeah.

So my first program was 15 grand. I invested in it. I joined this community, and I met some cool people as a part of it, a part of the program. And there was a. There was a guy I met there. He gave me a call because he had a speaking gig coming up and he couldn't do it, it was a free one and I think it had been referred to him. So, you know, it was like a multi referral. So it's obviously not the greatest lead.

Nobody wanted it.

No one wants it.

Oh, no.

But he asked me, he was like, do you want it? I was like, yeah, that'd be great. I'd never spoken professionally before and that was my first presentation. And. And that night I think There was like 150, 140 people there, did the presentation. At the end, I made an offer and it was just like a. It's what I call a soft sell. So it was. We did the presentation and then I just made an offer to do some free coaching was like discovery calls. The classic discovery call.

Yeah.

And I took like 30 discovery calls and I closed about 15 clients. And then so I had a full stack, like a full deck of coaching clients from that one presentation. And then that was when I started to love speaking because I was like, wow. I literally went from zero to full coaching deck in one night. And then I got invited. There was someone in the room from HP and they called me up after one of the discovery calls at a hotel that I did. And. And he was like, hey, we've got a presentation coming up for a global training day. Could you speak at it? And I go, yeah, yeah, that sounds great. And he said, how much? And at the time I told him 4,000. I said, I'm $4,000, which was massive because that's literally what I used to earn for the whole month.

Yeah.

And I said, 4,000. He didn't blink an eye. Like, he's like, that's totally fine, we can do that. And then at the end I go, oh, I forgot to ask how many people are going to be at this, this presentation? Because I'd never spoken before professionally, never been paid. And he goes, oh, there probably be five, five and a half thousand live at the presentation. And I'm right.

5,000.

I'm 28 at the time. I'm like a kid. I have no idea what I'm doing. And I'm thinking, did he just save five and a half thousand people? And then it actually went really well, the presentation. And then they end up booking me for like 10 years. I did all the major conferences around, like, Singapore, Asia Pacific areas. But for me, I. I didn't have like a really specific topic and I think that that was a downfall for me early on. I think that you're better off choosing a really specific topic. For me, I just happened to. I would I would speak on like it was kind of like personal, like human performance. So I would do some psychology stuff. I'll do some communication things, some leadership things. So it was a little bit more like depending on the situation I would change the talk. But I personally like the idea of more picking a specific topic and building around that topic. I think you'll do better with something like that. And so. But yeah, joining associations like I was. I've spoken and been a part of the National Speakers association for many years and, and just joining, being in rooms who are doing those sort of things, that. That makes a big difference as well.

Yeah, that's awesome. What did you do before that? Like, did you just wake up one day and join this program and decide that you wanted to become a speaker? Because this is the Decision Maker show. Right. So like how. What was the jump from like pre Expert life? What were you doing?

I love that. So I went to college and studied marketing because I thought that would be fun. And I did HR because I thought I like people. So I'm going to do hr, which as we learned it has nothing to do with really people. It's like processes and law and stuff.

Right? Yeah.

But anyway, I did that, came out and went into marketing and I was the worst at it. I remember the first job I had, I. It was actually with a commercial real estate company. I was doing marketing and within, within a, like a year, I'm like, they are going to literally fire me in this next week, I reckon. And I was getting performance managed and I didn't realize it.

Oh no. So really you weren't just imagining that it wasn't going.

No, it was not going well. It was not going well. And so I quit like the week before. I was about to basically get fired and I just was. And I randomly was looking around and I found this like teaching job and it was at a. It was at like a college so, you know, like a local community college. And though. And it was teaching, so people had come out of school and they wanted to do like a degree or something like that, a community degree. And I started doing that and I just loved it. Like, I just absolutely loved it and I was really good at it. I started to just get incredible reviews and I just really enjoyed it. By the way, it used to freak me out because I know for me, when I would speak at youth group, my hands and my legs would shake so much I would have to grab the microphone with both hands because I thought I was literally about to throw the microphone onto the audience I was shaking that much. Right. So. So I. I don't know what it was. It was just something about. I was just fascinated with the idea of speaking. And so I worked on it and then got into that and then I got into learning and development. And then eventually my pastor at the time, I was a youth. I was like a youth leader, goes, dude, you should try life coaching. And he was doing life coaching. And so that's when I started life coaching. So it was kind of that journey. But it's fascinating when you look back, I think for everyone, the lesson is when you look back over your life, there are diff if you haven't worked out what you want to do. It's so fascinating how much. A lot of the time, even earlier on, there were little things that you did that you really enjoyed, found passion in. And I actually did like a full loop around because I started teaching productivity, I started teaching emotional intelligence. I'm teaching like all these things and now I teach speaking, right. Speaking and spelling. But when I think about it, like that was the main thing I was always passionate about. It wasn't even the topic I could talk on any topic. I just love speaking. And so I think for all the listeners, if you're still struggling to find that direction, it's always fascinating to look back and go, you know, if we were to start again, what were the things that you really loved? And. And I think that there's, there's some truth in that. Especially like earlier on in your career, in your life.

Yeah, that's such a great point. Makes me think of Dr. Benjamin Hardy's book 10x is easier than 2x because he talks about those leaps that you make and how you never know what you're going to learn from or what. What action or decision you're going to make that's going to completely change your life or send you in a different trajectory. And I remember you got to witness my very first time speaking on a stage in front of people.

Was that your first time, Ellie?

Yes, my very first time in Mexico. Yeah.

I didn't. Oh my gosh. I didn't know that. Oh my gosh.

My trajectory upwards was like all during COVID Right. So there was no, there was no gathering. Like most of my speaking opportunities were virtual after launching the tiny offer and then people like asking me to come speak at their stuff. It was all virtual. So then in Mexico I was asked to speak and I said, yeah, I'll do it. And then I was like, oh, crap. Oh crap. I don't know If I can do it. And it was the same thing where I, like, committed to it and I'm like, I can do this. I can figure it out. And I remember being in the green room in the back, like, getting mic'd up and talking to Russell Brunson, and he's like, are you nervous? And I'm like, no. It was like, so obvious. I didn't want him to know it was my first time speaking because I didn't want him to think I was going to blow. Blow it. So anyway, like, I was a totally different person walking onto the stage than walking off the stage. Like, in that 20 minutes, I can't even describe what happened because it was just so transformational. And it was the same type of thing of, like, I was born for this. This was awesome. Like, it was so fun. And I. I loved getting to see people and, like, be in front of them instead of just behind a screen.

So, yeah, it's exhilarating. Hey, I just. Yeah, I had a client, he had an event coming up. He got booked to keynote. And he'd never done a big speech before. There was like, I think 8, 000 people in the audience. It was a big lending conference. And I built his. Essentially, like, built his speech for him, like, all the nuances and stuff. He hired me as a coach. He got off and Tony Robbins was in the audience. And Tony Robbins grabbed him and said, dude, that was unbelievable. He said, you are. He's like, you are a speaker. And he said, do you want to come and headline with me around the country? And literally now he's headlining with.

No way.

Yeah.

Oh, my gosh.

Yeah. His name's Brian Decker. You can check out his Instagram. He's like, he's got a post about me right at the top and it's just like. But he was saying. He goes, it was literally the best day of my life. Like, he was like, it was the best day of my professional life.

Yeah.

Doing that speaking engagement was just the biggest buzz ever.

Isn't that awesome? Like, it is so cool.

It's the biggest adrenaline rush ever. Like, it's insane.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I think it's. I think it's just a. Just a cool kind of thing to have to grow in. Yeah.

Yeah. So if somebody. If somebody gets an opportunity to speak, like, obviously say yes and figure it out later is what I would. What I. Because you never know. Like, even your story, you said yes. And then it led to a ton of awareness around what you wanted to do and just opportunities. You Never know who's going to be in the audience. And. Yeah.

Yeah. I love that human performance principle of say yes and then work out how.

Yeah.

And I mean, that is.

That is my life. I think entrepreneurs, it becomes like, we have to do that because there's so much we don't know how to do when we're getting started, especially.

Oh, I know. And like, I even think about, for us, when we moved from Australia to America, if I knew the level of challenges I was going to go through to establish our business and life here, I would have said no. You know, and so that whole thing of, like, say yes and then work out how is so true. But it. Yeah, it. It's scary. I love this. One of the best analogies I ever heard from one of my mentors, early mentors. His name is Joe Pane. He said he was like, I'm going. He was going for a run. He's. He's like a marathon runner. Because I'm going through a run in the local park and I saw these ducks, like baby ducks with the mother duck. And they're all just wandering around, you know, eating off the ground as they do. And the mother duck obviously saw something or noticed something, and the mother duck, like, heads out and starts running. And all the ducklings go from being all over the place to literally just following the mother duck running in a direct, perfect line across the path. And he was just. He was kind of talking about that idea of, like, that is, say yes and work out how that is. The mother duck makes the decision. Talk about the decision maker. The mother duck makes the decision, they head out, and then that's when all the ducks get into alignment. The ducks don't get into alignment until the decision's made. And so you can't make it as you can't judge whether you're going to be able to do it or not before you've made that decision, because the decision creates the alignment and the momentum.

That's so good. That's like the perfect analogy. I was like, I don't know where you're so good.

Hey.

But I'm here for it.

So. Good analogy. Well, it just. It's always stuck with me, that analogy when I heard it earlier on in my life coach training and. And that. It's just so true in life. Yeah.

So I love it. So what are some pivotal decisions that you've made in your business recently? Like, is there anything. And I'm. I'm not leading to the tiny offer because I know we're going to Talk about that later because I know you recently launched.

Well, that would be one of them.

But okay. So I mean, is there anything that you felt like you waited on deciding or you couldn't decide? I feel like anytime I'm in a place of indecision, like, as soon as I make the decision, the momentum, I can't even explain where it comes from, but it's like there's so much energy gets spent on indecision. So anything like that that you want to share?

Yeah, I would say for me, like, it's. I'd say hiring is tough from the sense of. I definitely grew up and you know, the philosophy of my dad was he ran a business for a short while, but I kind of watched him and he's an amazing guy, but he never really hired people, many people to support him. And. And so I kind of like, I definitely grew up with this, with a mindset of like, just do it yourself. You can do it well and you can do it well to a certain extent. And. But for me, I would say some of the hardest decision and as well, obviously it's the outlay of money, you know, however many thousand it is a month. And so hiring has definitely been a. A tough one for me. I feel like I. I def. Hire late. But we've made some hires recently. We just hired a marketing director and. Which was our biggest hire we've ever done. And that has changed the game. Like absolutely change the game. You know, we've probably added another 80% of revenue on last year.

Wow.

Already this year, like it's one higher. Yeah. Like from this one. And I would say it's very closely linked to that one Higher. So yeah, we, you know, pacing on last year we hit the revenue in the whole year. Last year we hit by June this year.

Wow.

And I would say a lot of it has to do with that higher. And so 10x is easier than 2x. And also his other book. Yeah, how which I'm doing the trilogy at the moment. I'm literally, I'm listening to the gap in the game now. I've done oh so good both of those two. And then I'm doing the gaping again at the moment. And I would say. So that for me is like, probably one of my challenges is, is the hiring piece. I'm probably a little bit slow with that and my wife is a lot faster. So I would say that, that, that. But yeah, making those decisions, putting on people, I always look back and I go those decisions like hiring the right person and sometimes they're not always the right person, but you know, generally when you get the right person in place, you do a quantum leap. I know for me, when I first hired my, my first assistant who is still with me, by the way, her name's Doreen. She's been with me for like 10 years.

Wow.

And she's based in the Philippines. She's amazing. And so she, she changed the game for me. Like, she, she allowed me to get out of the mundane menial tasks. So always hiring decisions at the right time have been the. And the right person have been game changing.

Yeah.

You cannot, you cannot run a million dollar business without hiring. If people are listening out there and they're like, I want to run a multimillion dollar business like Ali, you know, like, you can't do a million dollar business with. Without hiring people. So.

No. And I've tried. Like, I've gone through phases where like, oh, my profit margin should be higher. I'm just gonna fire a bunch of people and see what happens. And then I watch my revenue like, oh, wait a minute. Like, I don't want to do all of it myself. I don't feel like doing all of this myself. And then I'll like, sabotage and not, not do the things that need to be done. And like, I, I do so much better when I'm surrounded by great people.

Yeah. It's so true. It's so true. But it's hard. It's like, it's scary to hire people. I think one of the hacks that I've found to be helpful is the idea that you're not actually committing to 12 months of wages. You're, you know, you're committing to three months of wages. And if you can handle three months of wages, because if they're not the right person, there's been multiple times where I'm like 90 days in at the 90 day, I'm like, dude, you're a great person, but this is not going to work moving forward. And they're out. Like, there's probably been three. Three hires. Wow. And they're W2 hires in the US that I've just canceled at 90 days. And it's tough, but it's, it's also, that's part of the journey. So that would be the, that would be a big one. That's been a quantum leap. And yeah, and you mentioned the tiny offer. So we added a tiny offer for our business called the conversion story formula. And it teaches people to create not this signature story or the origin story, but what I call a Conversion story, which is the story that both connects with the audience, but also connects with their offer. And so it. It automatically draws people towards their offer. And that's a $47 offer on the front end. It was funny, Ali, because when I was creating was so painful to make it $47, because I'm looking at it going, this thing is $1,000 product. Like, yeah, I could. And there was. I'd never sold anything under $2,000 before.

And so what were you thinking when you were doing that? You're like, ali's crazy. She's wrong. I couldn't do this. It's not going to work. Like, what were you thinking?

Well, it definitely was in the back of my mind for talking about decisions, probably a year and a half to two years of. I needed something on the front end other than a lead magnet to create a list of buyers. And because we were in very much a live launch model, which was still good. Like, we're still running over a million dollars a year in a live launch model. But it's. It's, like, intense. It's. It felt a little bit like, kind of scary at times, especially doing, you know, going into a launch putting 90 grand on the credit card and going, let's, you know, buckle up, and it's intense. And, And. And we were, you know, thank God we're always very profitable. Like, things always went well and. But. But it was. Yeah, that wasn't the model that I just knew I didn't want to do that long term. Now I still am a massive advocate for launches. Like, I love a launch, and we'll still do at least one or two a year, but it's more going like, building a business. I want a business that's selling something every single day. And it was something that you mentioned where you. I remember you said, you know, there hasn't been a day for, you know, four or five years or however long, probably 10 years that you haven't had a sale in your. In your business. Right. And I was like, wow, I've had many days where I didn't have a sale in my business because we're doing a launch model. And so we created this. This conversion story formula. We launched it to our email list, and they just went crazy for it, I think, because as well, I didn't have. I've never had anything small on the front end at a cheaper price.

Yeah.

And so we launched that, and it has a few other options in the funnel. So it's got like an upsell and a downsell. And, and a few, you know, I think there's two, there's two one time offers that people can buy as well. But the main thing is the conversion story formula and that, that has. I think we've, we launched it when we, when did we launch it? What are we in now? September? So we, it's been a, it's been up since about like we really launched it in January, I would say at the start of the year.

Oh, wow.

And, and we've had. Yes, we've had close to 4, 000 people buy already.

Wow.

Yeah. So. And, and now we're ramping up. Like ads have been, I would say the first three months we weren't even doing ads, we were just doing it purely organically and then now we're doing ads and the ads are doing about three row as at the moment.

That's awesome.

Yeah. And it's a. What's cool? Yeah, yeah, totally.

Yeah.

And what's cool is like I feel like the product's really good as well. So it's, it's a really short course. It's. It's like 90 minutes and it's a great. Yeah. And so for me the goal of the product itself is to get people's conversion story created and shared in under 48 hours. And people seem to really like that idea. It reminds me of like how you talk about with a tiny offer being very focused on like saving time, creating results, like getting that, getting that result fast. And I think that's been a real win for it. And we have literally people coming back onto my ads saying I bought this course. It was unbelievable. If anyone's thinking about joining it, definitely buy it. And I'm like, oh my gosh. Like I'm used to you know, the, the, the hate on the ads.

Scammer. Yeah, yeah, scammer.

Who's this Aussie guy thinking he's like good and he's crap and yeah, obviously a loser and a scamming to the worst.

Right.

It's always fun but we're getting like positive comments and that is, is just super cool. So for me it was like, how do we create a product that is really short, easy to consume, but really valuable and get someone an outcome? And that's been a massive win. So once again, you know, we've had like 4,000 people join it.

Wow.

And then I've almost, I'm about to have to upgrade my Kajabi subscription because we've got so many customers, so many people in there.

That's a good time to Have.

Yeah. And then that's created a pool of buyers. And so we don't have leads anymore. We have real buyers. And so that has led to them joining our other programs. We have Sell from Stage Academy, which is a 2K offer and that's our flagship offer and that's like the full, the full presentation. Right. But people starting with the story has been really good.

Yeah. And how many of those higher ticket courses have you sold specifically to people that came in from the tiny offer?

I don't have the data on that, to be frank. But of like how many numbers?

But yeah, I think you said like a couple per week at least, right?

Yeah. So we are getting. We have a automated webinar and the webinar is built off kind of my framework with how to deliver the webinar and we're getting it. We get a 9% conversion rate into the 2K offer. Who, who. If they buy the course, the tiny offer, then they move into the, the webinar and about 9% of people buy it.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

I've heard a lot of people probably similar to concerns that you had before launching it for two and a half years of waiting to see, like wondering if it's going to cannibalize your higher ticket stuff or if it's going to negatively impact your sales away from anything. So have you seen that at all?

Not at all. Not at all. I mean there's sometimes there's a little bit of like confusion of. Okay, so is this included in that course? Like we get some questions on that.

Yeah.

And for me, I built it as a standalone product. So it's, it's actually, it's not just ripped out of our other course we actually built. I spent, you know, half a day and built it.

Yeah.

I think as a standalone.

Do it honestly, like that. That's great.

Yeah, So I did that and that's been really good. The other we ha. It hasn't cannibalized because it's a very small part of our signature course. So it hasn't cannibalized it at all. I would say there is. For me, it fits within the bigger framework. So it's such a small part of the bigger framework. So it definitely hasn't. I don't feel like it's had any sort of negative effect on the signature. In fact, it's only done positive stuff.

Yeah.

Because it builds, it builds the trust.

Yep. So selling more of those, did you run ads to like an evergreen webinar before that at all?

No, I, We I was definitely, once again, very slow to Evergreen. And I wish I'd went faster to an Evergreen because we were running live webinars, you know, every month, every other month, and they were always going great. Yeah, we went to Evergreen. So we've never ran ads. We're only just starting to really run ads directly to the Evergreen. So we're still getting some dot, some data on that.

Be interested, like what the numbers look like straight to Evergreen versus, like tiny offer to Evergreen funnel.

Yes, yes.

Have you come back again and tell us later?

No, it definitely. Yeah, definitely is interesting. And I feel like, I mean, at the moment I'm really happy with how the numbers are working with the tiny offer to the Evergreen. So that's great. But yeah, if we can add that other direction, you know, maybe that'll work. So. Yeah, but at the moment, the, the tiny offer is great. And I would, you know, if anyone is considering doing a tiny offer, 100% recommend it. You know, I think it's a great. It's such a great. This is what it does. This is what I feel like it does for businesses is it flips the cost to revenue ratio. And the reason why I say that is because normally if you're promoting a lead magnet, you know, you're going to spend maybe $5, $10 per person buying a lead magnet from you. Not buying, downloading a lead magnet from you. And it will cost you money. And that's how I used to do. I would do a big launch, you know, we would Pay, you know, 10 to $15 per lead. We would get thousands of leads. But it's a big outlay financially. And then you obviously make money on the back end. But what I love about the tiny office strategy is that you either get paid to get clients or you at least break even or even if you make a little loss, I don't think it matters that much because for me, it's about the flow on effect. Because you don't just get people sitting on your database. You get people who have bought something from you. They're giving you your attention. And then because of that, it has a flow on effect. So it flips the cost to revenue ratio because instead of at the front end, you're spending money to get a lead who's like a lower quality lead. You're actually usually making a little bit of money and you get a higher quality buyer.

Yeah, yep, I've seen that too. And I always tell people, people who pay pay attention. Because, yes, I have downloaded many freebies and filed them and never opened them and been like, I'll do that later. I'll open that later. But if I buy a course or, you know, a tiny offer where I'm immersed in the experience and I'm seeing the person's face in hearing their voice on the, you know, the training, it's like I automatically put them at a higher status in my brain of.

Yes.

Who they are and what they know and if I should trust them. So I think that's cool that that's worked well for you too.

Yeah. And even if it's funny, because I. I bought a tiny offer from a guy. He's like a consultant, and he does, like, financial analysis. I bought one the other day. I haven't gone through the course yet, but just in my mind, it's still there. I'm like, I still. I notice him more, I watch him more, you know, and even though I haven't gone through the course yet, I just pay more attention to him because I've given him some money.

Yeah. Yeah. Isn't that so funny? Like, just psychologically, I heard somebody say the transformation is in the transaction. And they were talking about high ticket, which I agree with. You know, if you invest even more, then you. You have more on the line, and you're going to be really, really committed. But I think it works at the tiny offer level, too, is just the fact of buying it. You're, like, shifting into a different version of yourself, or you believe you are someone who's gonna use the course or gonna implement the thing that you just bought, and then you start showing up a little bit differently because of it. So how did you choose your tiny offer? Like, you had your signature program. What did that process look like for you to figure out what to create for your tiny offer?

For me, there was two questions I asked. One question was, and it was gonna be based on one of these two, which was the first one was, what's the first step in the journey? So, like, I could create a tiny offer around the first step, but for me, that didn't make as much sense with what I do. Like, I could have created a tiny offer around something like, you know, coming up with the name of your webinar. Right. Which is kind of like the first step, you know, defining. Defining the name of your webinar and the angle.

Yeah.

But I. What I found was, I. The second question I asked was, what's the most desirable part of. Or one of the most desirable parts of the main course? I do. And that was storytelling. So everyone loves storytelling. Pretty much. And whenever we would teach, when I would teach webinars and offer cell from Stage Academy, I would always, like, the feedback would always be. The storytelling part was just so valuable. And so I was like, well, let me test that. Let me just lead with that. And, and I think because of that, like, even on our. Our conversions are about, like landing on a. On the actual offer itself, it's at like 33% of people buy the course who actually just hit the page, which is crazy.

Yeah.

But I think it's because. Because it's such a good offer and it's not overwhelming. It's not like a course bundle, which I know you teach against. Like, it's not. It's not a bundle of 92 courses. It is. It's a very specific offer. Now what. Some of the things that have helped a lot, I think I. We do. We've got some great testimonials on there, some great social proof, and that has made a big difference as well. So I think the more trust you can build because people are hitting it cold. And so I do have some celebrity social proof, which I think I saw that.

That's awesome.

Yeah. Yeah. And that, that I think makes a massive difference. But, but, but, you know, just having social proof on there and having some really good quality social proof is. Has made a big difference, but I've built towards those. That celebrity social proof that. I didn't start with that.

Yeah, yeah, I love that. So you kind of created almost a new framework or a separate framework outside of your. What's taught in your core offer.

Yeah, so it was funny, actually. I caught up with Brandon Lucero, who's like a messaging expert. I'm good friends with him. We caught up and we're chatting about this idea of building, you know, the tiny offer, and I'm like, dude, I want to create like a small course. And. And I said, I'm thinking about teaching, like, signature storytelling. And he's like, yeah, that's cool, but it's also, like, pretty bland. It's pretty vanilla. And I was like, you're right. And then we. We had a chat and he basically said it was crap. And then. And then we. Yeah, yeah. And then we came up with the idea of a conversion story. And then we're like, oh, that's good. And it's funny, actually, if you search the word conversion story, it's. It's actually just. I didn't even realize at the time, but it's like faith based, like, people becoming a Christian. Like, it's all faith based. Right. And I was like, I didn't even realize it at the time, but. But mine's a little bit different. So that's the. They're the only people who kind of own that. Own that idea. Yeah, yeah. We came up with that idea of a conversion story and I think that if you come up with a unique angle for your tiny offer, that can make a massive difference.

Yeah, that's what I've seen. Like the ones that convert the best have a unique way of teaching something, or it's a totally new way of thinking about it or of implementing something. It's either that it has to be a new opportunity type framework or it has to be a collection of templates and swipe files to really make it take off. Because it's either like plug and play, which is the route I usually go, but the other way is having your own framework that you're teaching that points people, you know, like gives. It's an appetizer, basically. An appetizer for the higher ticket stuff that you offer too. So I think that's perfect. And the name is great. I mean, having formula, it's all those words like formula blueprint framework, like all secrets, all those dopamine inducing words. So I think that's. That's awesome that you did that.

Yeah, I love a good technical name on the end. Formula Blueprint Process accelerator. That has made a. Yeah, that's definitely made a big difference.

Feel like it's new.

Yeah. And I feel like one, one thing that's worked really well for all your listeners to think about as well is if you come up with something unique, you can lean on the thing that they know and then talk about why what you do is different. And that's been a big win for us because in, in our ads, I'll say something like, let me share with you the difference between an origin story and a conversion story.

Yep.

And so people go, oh, I know what an origin story is. I could say a signature story and a conversion story. Right. So it's, it's the language that they know already.

Yeah.

And then they go, oh, that's kind of new. And then I'll talk about how the origin story, you know, tells your whole journey. And, and the only person who's really interested in that is, is your mum. And that's nice, but your mom's probably not your, your target audience.

Yeah.

And then, and then I'll talk about the conversion story. So we get it. We get a few like, funny comments on that ad and stuff like that, but that ad works really well.

Yeah. That's such a good way to think about it too, though, because I like, you work with people who are experts or have some type of specialty. And some of them, I'm like, well, if you create a tiny offer and make it your own unique formula or framework, and they're like, well, I don't, I don't have that yet. Like, okay, well, what do people think they're supposed to be doing? And why do you disagree with the way everyone thinks it's supposed to be done? And then when you figure out how to package it, that's the framework. And they're like, oh, so I just have to look at why I don't agree with the reigning belief or what everyone else is doing. And then that's. That's a really easy way to uncover it. So I love that you just tapped on that too. Your ads are awesome. Just before we wrap up, like, I was going to ask you about that too.

Yeah.

You do mostly video ads for your tiny offer.

Yeah, I find video ads have worked the best. And the best ads for us have been teaching ads or comparison ads. And so teaching ads are something where you. So based on your offer, you're going to sell. You. You teach them the offer or something kind of like quite how to, but not super how to, but. But it's a little bit how to in under 60 seconds. So you would lead with something like, let me share with you how you can create your. I'll actually say your signature story, because I lead with something they know. And then I, at the end, I actually link it to. This is what I actually call your conversion story. And then so I'll say, let me share with you how you can create your signature story in under 60 seconds. And then you just. I'll teach like three little things and then I'll be like, in fact, this unique take on it is what I call your conversion story. And if you're interested in creating that, then click around this video and you can come check it out.

And the quick win of having it done in two days. Right?

Yes. Yeah. Well, that's on the offer itself. But the ad, the teaching ad have worked really well of like, let me share with you how you can do this in under 60 seconds.

Yeah.

And so people like, oh, I could give a minute to this if I'm interested in this topic. And then it builds credibility and it doesn't feel like you're like, you know, just a classic sales ad. It's a teaching ad. And so we get great response on that. People literally write like, oh my gosh, this is such an authentic ad. And like, so good to see someone actually adding value in their ads.

Yeah.

So.

And then probably really connects with them too. You know, like they feel like they know you because you're showing personality and caring. An ad too.

Correct. Yeah. You're actually adding some value.

Yeah, I love that. Well, we have a link for people to go check out your Tiny offer And it is alibierk.com story. So we'll hook you up with the link to that so you can go check it out. And C. Collins, Tiny Offer. Any. Any last words, anything you want to add, any encouragement for people who are waiting to launch Tiny Offer not to wait two and a half years like I was. Yeah.

My encouraging words is that you don't have to get it right first time around. And in fact I didn't even mention it in the podcast. But my first like go at a tiny offer. And it wasn't really a tiny offer, it was because I sold it for $297. But that was my first version of a tidy offer because I'd never sold anything under 2K steps. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Was I just literally took a. A module from one of my courses and sold that. And so I reckon there's a bunch of like little mini trainings or master classes like for me and my elite coaching group. Like I'll do a monthly or every other month masterclass, you know, you. I could take one of those classes and just make it a tiny offer and just test it and just see how it goes. I just sent an email to my list and I was like, hey, this is the new. This is a new product. I have and kind of mentioned it and then I sold it and you know, we did, you know, 10 grand or something in like two days on that little, little one. I haven't ended up running continually with that because it wasn't the one that I wanted to run with. But. Yeah, but I would say, like, just not getting too perfectionistic in, in the journey of it. And I feel like you do this really well as well. Like you just test new things and just see how it will see it as like a science experiment rather than always as, oh, this is the only thing I'm ever going to do and if this doesn't work, then it's never going to work. And so holding that a bit, a bit loosely would be my encouragement.

Yeah, I love that advice. Well, thank you for being here, Colin. Where can people catch up with you. Where can they find you online?

Yeah, so I'm very active on Instagram. That's probably my main connection point. So it's just at Colin Boyd with 1L, C, O L, I, N, B O, Y, D. I also have a podcast, it's called the Expert Edge. And so if you like, I was just on it.

So if you want, go check it out.

He was just on it. We interviewed Ali there, so hear her story there. Yeah. So Expert Edge at the Expert Edge podcast. And definitely go and check out the conversion story formula. If you do decide to join, send me a DM in my Instagram and let me know that you came from Ali's show and I'll give you an extra bonus that we Normally sell for $197. I'll give you an extra bonus. So just send me a DM and just say, hey, I'll just listen to Ali's show. I joined Conversion story Formula. I'd love the bonus and I'll send her over.

I love that. All right, thanks for being here, Colin. I'll talk to you soon. Thank you so much for listening to another episode of the Start Tiny podcast. I hope you enjoyed it. And you can check out our show Notes, which will have links to all of the things we discussed. And of course, if you have any questions for me or you want to tell me what you loved about the episode or anything that stood out, I would love if you'd send me an Instagram message over at Alibjerg. That's where I hang out the most. And if you're interested in learning more about implementing tiny offers inside of your business, make sure to check out the Start Tiny Society, our membership for tiny offers and all things digital marketing. Don't be a stranger. I'll see you inside of the Start Tiny Society or over on Instagram.