Selling From Virtual Stages - An Interview with Colin Boyd

Welcome to the Rich Life Reframe podcast. We've been given an amazing opportunity in entrepreneurship that's never been available in any other time period. We live in a reality where the number of lives we impact can be directly reflected by the dollars in our bank accounts. This podcast is all about living a truly rich life that goes beyond the amount of income that we make. It means living the good life and existing in a state of freedom and well being. In this podcast, we'll be going through quick reframes that can help you get your mind right so you can truly live the life that you've always dreamed of. That being said, let's hop into this episode. All right, welcome back to another episode of the Rich Life Reframe. I've got something a little bit different for you today. Usually we do quick sound bites, little reframes, five to 10 minutes. But I have Colin Boyd here with me today. We're going to do a little bit longer style of an interview and I'm really excited to introduce you to Colin. He's one of my favorite people on the Internet. Super fun. And I'm really excited to jump in and nerd out with some of the digital marketing topics that we can get into. So Colin has coached some of the biggest entrepreneurial names in the business. He's been a professional speaker himself for over 13 years, and he has a lot of really amazing stuff to share with us today. So, Colin, thank you so much for being here with me today.

Hey, it's great to be here, Ali. And it's been cool getting to know each other and hanging out and I think that this conversation is going to be really, really helpful for your audience.

Yeah, I think so too. We've been on Zoom for like 20 minutes already and we just finally started recording the official episode. So can you tell us a little bit more about you and your background before we jump into some cool stuff about marketing?

Yeah, well, I think my. It was about 12 years ago, 13 years ago or so that I, I started out as a life coach and I remember sitting in my two bedroom apartment on the wrong side of the tracks and as the trains are going past and I'm trying to coach people on my landline in Australia at the time. We live in California now, but I was in Australia and I remember thinking, I don't know if this is sustainable. I had this dream in my heart that I wanted to make a difference, wanted to make an impact, and I was like, I don't know if this is actually sustainable. I had one client Paying me every other month about $100. And I just didn't know what to do. And what happened was, at the time, I got a referral to speak at an event that was a live event at the time. They're mostly virtual events now, but it was a live event. And I remember going up, walking up the stairs to this, my first live event to speak at. And it was literally a dark and stormy night, and I was so nervous and I spoke. And at the end, I made an offer. And I didn't realize it, but the offer was an irresistible one. And what happened from the 137 people or so, about 125 of them gave me their details. I followed up, completely filled my coaching business, and then Hewlett Packard called me about two days later to go, hey, can you speak at my. At our. At my. HP himself? Can you speak at our. At our global conference, which, by the way, had five and a half thousand people? That's a whole nother story. And, and I just realized that, that I, firstly, I loved speaking to people, and secondly, how fast and how quick you can generate clients from a virtual or a live speaking engagement. And so that really started my obsession. And then that's led us to move from Australia to Newport beach in California and just have an obsession with helping people to speak in a way that sells.

That's amazing. My marketing nerd brain is like, wow, that's a really good conversion rate. Like, 137 people were there and 125 signed up immediately. Yeah, that's amazing.

I mean, it was a free offer, so it was more like a, you know, and it was one of those put your business card in the back and. But it was just incredible. I didn't even know what I was doing.

Yeah, that's amazing. So what did you do? Like, what do you think? Now that you've figured it out and you've created the science behind it, what do you think worked so well that very first time? If you were nervous and like, maybe. Of course you were probably portrayed. You were confident, but, you know, how did that happen?

Yeah, well, firstly, I looked like I was about 12 years old, so I definitely was the youngest person in the room. I think what it came down to it, I was able to connect with the audience and add value. And then really, the offer was irresistible. And so I think, you know, we can talk about offers and how the speech or presentation on a virtual stage connects into an offer. But that was probably the biggest thing, is that, like, people just ran to the back to jump in because I was giving away, you know, over $1,000 worth of stuff for free that I was going to deliver and ended up delivering a lot more than that. And so people just jumped on it and so just got a flood of people.

That's awesome. And I think something you said that is important for people to shift into thinking about too, is that you said a lot of the stages are virtual. And one thing that you said to me the very first time we ever chatted was that a webinar is a virtual stage. Like a video sales letter is a virtual stage. Like any, pretty much anytime you're on video as a business owner, it could be a selling opportunity. So that's, that's really interesting is, you know, helping people make that shift into selling at scale is something that you said in the 20 minutes before we actually started officially recording. So can you talk a little bit more about what it means to sell at scale and like, how. How much more quickly people can scale when they're doing that?

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think there's a few ways to kind of to sell, right? One way is to sell one on one. And unless you're selling something over probably $10,000, selling one on one is not really sustainable. You're not going to build a very solid business usually. So one on one is like really high conversion, but low scalability. Another way to sell is a lot of the time through just, you know, people try to sell on social media or they might sell on email. Now you're going to get high leverage with that. Like, you can reach a lot of people, but the conversion is going to be quite like super low, really low. And the worst way to sell is like cold calling. We got to avoid that at all cost.

Door knocking.

Yeah, door knocking. Which, by the way, my son wants me to go door knocking this afternoon to raise money for his school.

Oh, fun.

He's obsessed about. I was like, all right, we'll try. So I'm going to use the. Basically the worst sales tactic there is and then hopefully leverage off his cuteness. And then when you think about it, high conversion and high leverage is a stage because you're in front of people and that could be a webinar. And when I say a stage, it's any. I'm usually not talking about a podcast or things like that. It's a visual and verbal experience of you. And so that's like, could be a webinar or a Facebook Live, but. But it's usually a longer length experience, whether it's 20 minutes to an hour to an hour and a half experience where you deliver a presentation and at the end you allow them to take a next step. And so when you think about a stage, you get leverage because you get lots of people, but the conversion rate stays pretty high if you can do it well. And so if I think about almost every expert in the industry, including yourself, we all use webinars or virtual stages to connect with our audience and move them into our programs. And every leader in the industry uses them. So for me it's one of those skills that if you don't work on it and develop it, then you're missing a whole piece of your business. That is fundamental.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I mean we're kind of on opposite ends of the spectrum, but not completely. So like if I'm coaching people on tiny offers, what I've seen is that there has to be something even more behind that to help them scale into the high ticket. So it's like the meeting of the two different strategies is how can people create a tiny offer and then shift into selling something higher ticket in like a 1 to many sales experience. So for that type of situation, since I'm sure a lot of my listeners are interested in tying the two worlds together, would you recommend, you talked about irresistible offers, so would you recommend like starting with that offer and then figuring out how to get people, the right people listening at the beginning?

Yeah, I mean I love what you do because with a tiny offer, it's self liquidating, it pays for itself or more actually get profit from it. So you get a whole bunch of potential customers who are actually buyers already and then you put a longer style presentation in front of them with an offer that is, you know, whether it be $1,000 up to about $5,000, that's usually on a virtual, like a virtual platform if you're in a, if you end up inviting people to a live event, and I know we're not running live events at the moment, but eventually when we start running live events, you know, you put someone in a room for a day or two days, you know, a 10, 15, 20,000, $30,000 offer to an audience, you can still have a really significantly high conversion rate on that.

Yeah, that's super interesting. So three years ago I went to Funnel Hacking Live and it was like a five day event and I was just studying it from kind of a critical perspective. But like the last day Russell Brunson makes his offer, right? And it's, it's an 18k coaching program and he sold it out in minutes. So I was studying, like the offer was good. It had a lot of really, you know, interesting aspects to it. But for five days people have been listening to him and connecting with him. And like the outside world didn't exist for five days because they're, they're in this, you know, this event space. They're loving everything. Click funnels. Like they're just so bought into the brand that I was like, how can we learn from this whole environment buying, you know, the whole buying environment that has been created in this five days and be able to use some of those same psychological, I mean not tactics, but kind of tactics like reasons why people get excited about things in like an hour's timeframe. Like how do you create that movement in that timeframe? So what have you found that you've pulled into what you teach that really helps people? Cause you said they were connected to you and it was an irresistible offer. So what can people, how do you teach that to people?

Yeah, well, it's this whole, I mean, I call it the self from stage formula. And essentially there's four parts. And the first part is you have to touch people's hearts. So in your presentation you have to connect with the audience and show that, that you get them and that you've been where they've been and you've been on that journey and you've actually had a breakthrough in it. And so usually we usually as Experts, we're the 2.0 version of our, of our avatar. And so if we can show that journey or show some sort of breakthrough at the start, we're going to really resonate with them. And so you touch people's hearts and then secondly, you want to shift their minds. And so one of the big mistakes that most experts make is they, they go to their course, let's say they've got, you know, their thousand dollar two thousand dollar course. They go to their course and go, what's some content that I can pull out of my course to put in my webinar so that when they learn this content they'll go, oh my gosh, this is so valuable. I want to join the program. Like imagine what I'll get when I actually pay money. And I think that's a massive mistake. And this is one of the first things that, that I work with on my students is realizing that the content in your course really shouldn't be the content in your webinar. Now there will be elements of it and there will be a connection between your, your presentation and the actual Offer. But you shouldn't just verbatim pull content from your course because what's going to happen is you're going to overwhelm the audience and we end up teaching too much. Does that, does that make sense?

Yeah. Oh, I totally agree. I think that's, that's one, one thing I've seen a lot of people do wrong on webinars. Then people, they're like, okay, I'm good. Like, I'm gonna go digest what I just learned and I'll be back later maybe. But then they don't, they don't come back.

Yeah, they, they rarely do. And usually an overwhelmed buyer is not gonna buy, you know, like, or an overwhelmed, you know, audience member is not going to buy. So if they've got too many things on already, you've given them too many things and there's too many steps and there's too much content, they're not going to buy. And so you have to move from, you have to move from providing what I call information training to decision based training. And decision based training is where the presentation is designed to actually help someone make a decision. And so we talked about this idea of like shifting their minds. Then you equip their hands so you give them some content. But if you're moving, if you're actually speaking in a way that sells, in other words, you want to make an offer, you don't want to go too much into the how to. And then finally you move into moving their feet, which is, which is the offer itself. And there's, there's a few styles of moving their feet, which is you can move them into a program, you can move them into a, into a, just a PDF, you can move them into a, an appointment with you, or you can just move them into taking an action if you're doing a classic keynote style. So, yeah, that's kind of the general flow of the, of the cell from stage formula.

Yeah, yeah, I love that. And I'm of course thinking of my own webinar and like, what I, obviously it's converted and, but I think what I, what I did well, without really knowing that's what I was doing at the time, was like, I teach on ads, but the way I'm teaching ads, I'm like, this is how you scale ads, or this is why you need to scale your ads versus, like, here's how you set up your pixel. Like, nobody really wants to learn that on a webinar. But like, they're aspirationally being like, yes, I want to understand ads. So well that I can scale them to, you know, 10 times what my budget is now to be because I'm getting profit, you know, because it's a liquidating offer. But I inspire them and help them to shift their minds and make that decision of like, yes, this is what I visualize myself doing. And now I need to find the solution.

Yeah, well, the biggest shift is this is like us as experts, we want to help people. Like we usually got into the business not just because we want to make money, like it's part of the reason, obviously it's a business, but we enjoy contributing, we enjoy sharing ideas that help people and make a shift. And the problem with that is that if we just purely come from that mindset, we get into teaching mode. And teaching mode is when we like overwhelm the audience because we're actually experts in what we do and we don't realize how much expertise we have. And so when we're presenting our ideas to the audience, they're going, whoa, whoa, whoa, hang on, this is really advanced stuff. We're thinking, no, no, this is just the basics. And so we overwhelm the audience and then they don't, don't take a next step forward. And it's kind of like this is the classic scenario, right? Is have you, have you ever had someone, I'm sure you have, Ali, like someone come to you and said, can I pick your brain? Oh, yeah, all the time, right? Can I, can I pick your brain? Right. And if it's the general, you know, general public, especially when you're getting started, you're going to go 100%, I'd love to help you. And you're thinking, oh, they might even join my course and my program after it. So you get together with them, right? Maybe pre Covid, you're getting together at the coffee shop, you pay for the coffee, they sit down and you give them everything, like full on verbal dump. Like you open the fire hose right on them and give them everything that they need to know. And then you see them two months later and you're, how'd you go with everything? And they're like, oh, I haven't done anything actually. Yep, they've done absolutely nothing.

Yeah.

And so what happens is we think that the audience needs all of the how tos. But what they, that's not what they need yet. Right now what they actually need is more commitment. And so a great presentation that sells increases commitment instead of providing overloading of information.

That's so good. And for anyone who hasn't sold On a one to many type style. People do this in their one on one sales calls too. Where it's supposed to be like a 20 minute discovery call and it turns into a two hour long like strategy session and then they never pay anything else because you fulfilled all of their needs or overwhelmed them so much that they're like, I'm good, I'm not going to hire you because I don't know what the heck you were talking about. But that's interesting that, that same. Cause I know when I first used to, I mean being a visionary, like I could see all the different paths they could take. So I'd get on a discovery call and I'm like, you could do this or you could build this funnel and then you could do this strategy and you could have this type of visibility to get people into the funnel and they like the, just the blank, like, okay, thanks, like it was nice, nice chatting. Two hours later and then gone, you know, so it's like the same. I can see how the same thing can happen when people are doing their first virtual stage experience. It's just that brain dump of like, here's everything I've ever learned and I'm going to download it into your brain. But it doesn't work like that.

It's so true. Because I think when you're starting out, you're really concerned about what the audience thinks of you. And so you come in with this fear of your presentation is not going to be good enough. They're not going to find value in it, like all of that sort of stuff. And so we tend to overload with content instead of actually thinking about what are the decision points, beliefs and et cetera that someone needs to make to actually say yes to the offer. Because it's only in the offer really that you can transform someone's life.

So how do you help people pull themselves out of that over delivery phase? How do they figure out what beliefs they would need to shift to get a yes?

Yeah, well, I think there's kind of two ways to think about it. It is what is the resistance that someone has to join your offer? So the resistance is like the handbrake. And so you want to think about what are the generalized beliefs. So like, you know, for you, Ali, it might be a generalized belief that, oh, I need a high ticket offer straight away like that. And so we would have to talk about that and go, why a tiny offer is actually going to help you to build towards your high ticket offer successfully and profitably. Right. And so what, what the Audience members need to think about is, is going like, what are the resistance points that, that the audience would have for the offer? And it's all made up, right? Like, so it's these beliefs that people make up and they generalize and then we have to reverse those or reframe those. And then secondly we have to think about what are the big ideas that they would be most desiring of. And so I mean for me one of the big ideas is using your signature story to sell. So most people use their signature story to connect with the audience, but a good signature story should sell your offer without even selling it. And so I'll talk about signature stories on my, on my trainings because people are really interested in that sort of stuff. So thinking about what are the big things that people are most interested in. But you don't want to necessarily talk about all the nitty gritty detail. You just want to show them what's possible in that space.

Yeah, I love that. Have you found resistance points that. Are there any common themes? Like I see, I don't know if it's just because I sell to a certain type of audience but like the confidence of like I don't know if I'm techie enough or I don't know if I know enough or if my audience, you know, whatever it might be. So a lot of internal, external. So I'm curious like if you've seen some of those themes and how you teach it as well, like where that resistance comes up.

Yeah, well, I think there's two buckets for this. There's universe like universal resistances, which is, I don't have the money, I don't have the time. Do I have the ability? Like a lot of that is universal. Now then the other bucket is topic specific and so the topic specific ones they could relate to. So you mentioned one before, I might, you know, I don't know if I'm techy enough. So that could be a topic specific one that we could talk about and just, you know, calm people's nerves in that area so that, show them what that they actually can do it. And so you want to think about for your audience members is going like your listeners going, what are the topic specific? And then what are the generalized ones? And usually the topic specific are going to be the most important for your offer. And so like for example, one of the, you know, for me our program sell from Stage Academy, one of the big shifts is realizing that a lot of the times people feel uncomfortable selling. So they're like, I don't want to be or whatever.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Like, I don't want to be the sleazy, pushy car sales woman, man. You know, et cetera. I don't want to be that person. And so because of that, when they make their offer, they hold back. They get like, you know, they really hold back and so forth. And that essentially is stopping them growing their business. And it's actually stopping them truly serving their audience or for the audience who are serious about committing.

Because it's a story. Right. Like, it's some. For some reason, they've spun that narrative in their head.

Exactly. Because they've had an experience in their past, and we've all had that of someone who was too pushy or too salesy or we've seen it in the industry. And, you know, this expert industry is a fairly small industry. You know, you get to know people in the industry fairly quickly. And so, yeah, we're, we're scared of this. But one of the big shifts that I, that, that I love helping people make is realizing that selling is the only doorway to serving in a business. Because to run a business has to be profitable, and so the profitability sustains the business. But the only way to truly serve someone as a customer is for them to make a transaction with you. Until they make a transaction, first of all, they're not going to be committed themselves, and second of all, there, you're not going to be able to serve them because it's not sustainable.

Yeah, I love that.

Yeah. So selling is the only way to serve people in your business.

Yeah, I want to be quiet just to let that sink in because there's so many people need to hear that. Okay. So we talked about the shifts that people need to make and how they're just thinking before. Before even being interested in the offer. But when you talked about resistance and what they're learning, like, I feel like that plays into how to create the offer too, because as you understand what their sticking points are as you're presenting and how to inspire them and help them connect with your story and all of that through the presentation. We've talked a lot about irresistible offers, so I'd love to hear your perspective on it. Of, like, do you bring that information into how you build the offer or how you structure what's included?

Yeah.

Or even like, what is an offer? Let's. Let's talk about that.

Yeah, I love that. That question. What is an offer? An offer is a space of transformation that you're creating for an audience. And what, what I love about an offer is think about it like imagine, hopefully at some point when we get to hang out face to face. Imagine, you know, imagine you bake some amazing cookies, right? And you know, they're choc chip cookies. They're exactly what I love. And you're just like, hey, Colin, I've baked some choc chip cookies for us when we're hanging out with the family and so forth. Would you like one? Now, first of all, I love chopped choc chip cookies, right? And you're not forcing it on me. You're just saying, hey, I've created this like irresistible choc chip cookies. They've just come out of the oven, they smell amazing, they look amazing, they're chunky, they look awesome. And I'm like, they're soft inside. And for me, I'm going to go, wow, thank you. That's amazing. I would love to experience that taste in my mouth of the choc chip cookie. And that essentially is what selling is, is making an offer. It's going. I've created this incredible space of transformation. And that transformation, you know, occurs through a formula that we've created, some coaching support, some implementation, all that sort of stuff. And if this is the type of outcome and experience that you're looking for, then you're welcome to enter. But to enter, there's a wall you have to get over. And that wall, first of all serves two purposes. It serves the purpose of it protects the people inside the area from the outside from just random riff raff. And it also creates a barrier of commitment for the people to come in. And so it's like a wall. And so the higher the wall, usually the more committed, more intimate the space is inside. So for example, if you have a wall that's $20,000, there's only going to be a certain amount of people that are going to jump into that wall. But those people who jump in, they're committed. I mean, you could just ask them to pay $20,000 and hang out with them and they'll just start seeing results because they paid 20,000. But if you make the wall $1,000, there's going to be a lot more people who can jump in. So it's going to be probably a less intimate space, but have a level of commitment that people have inside of there and it protects them from that outside. So for me, offers are a sacred space of transformation.

Oh, I love that. And the commitment being related to how much they're willing to invest too. Because if you think about it. I know. So I've Been doing a lot of research in my own business of like, how many people come in with a tiny offer, how many of those people end up buying the 2K offer or the, you know, what's now going to be the 9k offer or the 18k offer. So, so I have five people in my 18k offer, like, I don't know, 500 in the. What was the 6k? And a few hundred in the. So it's like, obviously it's a funnel. So people, there's less people who, as I like how you said that, like, as the wall gets higher, it's a more intimate space, but I've definitely seen that commitment where, where people will buy the $27 offer and never, I mean, they're still, still probably more engaged or they get more of a dopamine hit from purchasing it than just a freebie. But there are still people who don't take action on it because, you know, it's, it's Starbucks money. Like, it's not, it's not actually transformational amount where the people who have invested 18k to hang out, they're like reading all my blogs, listening to the podcast, like they're, they're going through absolutely everything I have, even the free stuff, just because they, they want to be fully immersed and like not miss anything.

Hmm. It's so true. It's. And it's so funny when I send out a survey, I send out a survey to our customers and we've got like a mid tier offer and then a higher tier offer, and obviously the high tier offer will get a lot less people in it. And I sent out the survey and almost everyone in the high tier offer did it.

Right.

And then only a very small percentage in the lower tier offer did it. And I'm thinking I wanted more information from the lower tier people.

Yeah, exactly.

But they're just so engaged, they're like, I'm doing it, I'm doing it 100%. They listen to the podcast, all that sort of stuff. It's so true and interesting. And so, I mean, that's the psychology of essentially an ascension model. And, and all of the pieces have to work together to make, you know, a business really profitable. And so, yeah, I think the wall that protects the sacred space of the offer is a combination of money, time, energy, commitment, confidentiality, like all of those things where people have to commit on different levels. And the more commitment there is, the more sacred, the more, usually the more committed people are in that space. And so hopefully that's shifting people's mindsets around making an offer because so many people get worried about oh my gosh, I'm selling this thing to them. But what if you take a step back and go, no, you've created a space for people to see a transformation and that space is really sacred.

Yeah, yeah. And as you're talking, I was thinking about one, a mistake that I made in Tiny offer Lab when it was the 6k version. I kept adding more because I was trying to over deliver for people. So I was like, and you get this coach and you get a one on one coach and you get this and you get that. But like the wall for time investment then got even higher. So like yes, the price didn't go up but now people who maybe would have paid that amount, they're like, I don't have time to attend six different coaching calls every single week. Like now I'm not going to commit because I don't believe that I'm actually going to follow through and get my money's worth. Whereas before when it was just me and it was the same price point, it was like a different type of buyer, I guess. So it was really interesting to see that shift in who needed that much support and who was. Then it made sense for that buyer to come in. But like the person, I could see the personalities of the groups or the cohort shift as my offer shifted. So that, that's been really interesting to see.

Yeah, love that.

Yeah. Which is, you know, I, it's not something that you can teach necessarily of course, like people have to take action and jump in to see those types of things. So where do you recommend that people do jump in like as far as offer size? Because we've talked about these different tiers and height of the wall. But what is the sweet spot for that virtual stage that you found?

I think for a virtual stage, if we're talking about, you know, we're not necessarily talking about a tiny offer. Like it's a, it's a, it's your first like virtual stage. Whether that be maybe you're running a summit or you're running a webinar or something like that. I think at the moment and it depends on what your, what you're offering in terms of deliverability. But anywhere around that thousand dollar, like the thousand dollar mark is so such a sweet spot, you know, in an hour someone can make a thousand dollars decision very easily. Now especially, you know, in a, especially in a lot of the entrepreneur space, that thousand dollars up to about like $3,000 mark is a really nice Point to start with. Now if you're running a multi day event, you know you can, you can make bigger offers, but around that, if you're doing an hour presentation, $1,000 to $3,000 offer is a really nice space to start and it's a very profitable offer depending on what you're delivering on the back end.

Yeah, well, and at that price point too, it's simple to sell because you don't necessarily need a sales team and an application or any of those things that happen. But what I love about what you teach and like the formula that you teach it is that you can do it at any of these different types of tiers. I mean one thing that you shared with me that I thought was really cool is like getting people in for that, that lower price point, you know, 997 and then doing a two day workshop where it's like a longer experience with you and then it's easier to upsell them into another program or something like that. So it's like it's not a one size fits all. There's this formula can be rinsed and repeated in so many different ways that it's. I think it's really cool.

Yeah, I love that. And having I think a lot of the time, you know, people do overcomplicate it too much and so I think you need so guilty. So I think, you know, having leading with a self liquidating offer to build your audience like is brilliant. Right. Because you need an audience to actually sell.

Right.

And then so running a self liquidating offer or something like that and then having, having a one to $2,000 price point and then like a $10,000 price point, I mean that business alone, that's a multimillion dollar business right there. So you don't need seven levels. You know, three would probably be I think max that I would recommend for someone who is, you know, if you've been in the business for quite some time, you've got a name, you could probably have more levels, but three would be the max you would want.

When I think if you're creating that space of transformation for them too, it's a really simple way to be able to have the same transformation happen at different levels of involvement. You know, like the wall gets higher, but when the wall is higher, your involvement is a lot higher with helping them get that transformation. You know, it's a more direct. Depending on the size of the wall, it could be group or it could be one on one. Could be discourse based. But I think that's a really Cool way to think about it.

Love it.

Yeah. So, Colin, where can people learn more about you? And I know, I know you have a video series coming out pretty soon about how people can start using this formula in their own business and getting clear on, on how to start implementing. Where can they learn more about that?

Yeah, well, if people are really serious about learning this skill of speaking in a way that, that sells their products and programs at scale on a virtual stage, we're actually running a free training series pretty soon. It's called how to Sell from Virtual Stage. So literally how to Sell from Virtual Staging. And I'm going to be breaking down the steps of creating your content, shifting psychology, some office psychology and processes. And so we're really excited about this. And, you know, it's. It's my only thing that I do in terms of my obsession is just helping people create presentations that they can deploy on a webinar or a, or a virtual event or even a live event eventually that can grow and scale their business. And so my, my experience has been that most people, when they design that one presentation, you're literally a lot of the time one presentation away from the breakthrough you've been looking for in your business. And so that's my goal, is to help them to design and create that and to really step into that confidence. So I think you'll provide a link for that. Ali, did you have a link for that?

Yeah. So you can check it out@alibierich.com stage and I can, I mean, I can say from firsthand experience that when I first launched Tiny Offer Lab, I wanted to do it as a course and like, not tell anybody about it, like, put it on the back end of a funnel. And someone talked me into doing a webinar and I was like, I don't want to do it. I'm not comfortable. This is awkward. Like, I'm not confident in showing up on camera and like, selling this is weird. And I, the first, the very first time I actually showed up and did it, delivered the webinar live. I think we closed like 6k in or not 6k, six figures in sales in that first, like two days. And I was like, holy crap, this is like the tiny offer on crack. Because there's like so many more people and it's like higher ticket. So that's when I was like, wow, the best way to like bring the leads in with a tiny offer but have something more for them to do and have a webinar or some type of virtual stage to sell it on. And that's really what. What will help people have the best of both worlds, for sure. So I really hope people do go to that URL. It's Ali Burke.com forward/stage. And you can check out all of Colin's stuff and get signed up there.

Yeah. And if you want to connect with me, I'm on Instagram a lot as Ali is, which is just Colin at colinboyd with one L. And we also host the Expert Edge podcast, which is our podcast. So. Yeah. But I hope to see you in the training series if you're serious about learning that skill.

I love it. Well, thank you, Colin. Thanks for being here. It's been great chatting with you, as always.

Thanks, Ali.

We'll catch up soon. Thanks.