How to Get a Promotion

Welcome back to another episode from the Ally from Corporate podcast. Today we have one of my all time favorite people and coaches, Tiffany Human. Welcome.

Thanks so much, Ali. That's really kind of you to say. I'm so happy to be here.

Awesome. So for those of you that have never heard of Tiffany or never met her, first of all, you might be living under a rock. And second of all, she was a former senior director at L', Oreal where she got seven promotions in under 10 years. If you guys don't know how crazy that is, we're going to talk all about it today. That's what this episode is about. And she was head of marketing on multi million dollar brands. She is now a career strategy coach and she helps people become peak performers to accelerate their careers. So I am so glad you're here, Tiffany.

Oh, thanks for having me, Ali. I'm excited for this topic. You know, I'm very passionate about it.

Yes. And if you guys aren't following her on social media, she's everywhere and she talks a lot about how to become a peak performer and attract promotions and raises, and that's what today's episode is about. So if you are listening to this and you are satisfied in your job, but you think there's more out there and you don't want to leave your company, you want to grow within it, this is the perfect episode for you. So let's start it off with maybe a common myth that I've been hearing. Maybe you can bust it for me. So today's job market is wild. I've never seen anything like it. And I'm hearing a lot of people say, if you want a raise or a promotion in today's world, read the room and just be glad you're not getting laid off. Do you think there's a good timing for asking for a promotion? And what does that look like?

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, timing is everything when it comes to securing a promotion or salary raise. But I will debunk that in the sense that there are still very much opportunities for promotions and raises. When you go about it in an effective way, that will accelerate the chances of that happening, even despite what we hear in the market, even despite, you know, some economic, economic downturns or challenges. I mean, I'm seeing it with my very own clients that are continuing to accelerate despite what we're hearing in the negativity out there. So just know that there's hope and, and it's possible. But to your point, Allie, you definitely want to be very cognizant of what is happening in your current organization. For example, if your company is one that has just undergone a round of layoffs or is scaling back or is doing a hiring freeze, you don't want to be the one coming in there naive, being like, hey, but what about me and my promotion? That can probably fall very badly for you. That might also be a little bit tone deaf to what's happening on the inside where people have been losing their jobs. Jobs. You still have one. But at the same time you're like, but I have been working really hard towards xyz and this is really a moment that should have been a promotion for me and I don't want my career to slow down. So one of the most important things here, Ali, that I always recommend is having a continuity of dialogue around your advancement. Because when you are banking on like one core moment to have that conversation, you, yeah, it's going to feel a lot more stressful and overwhelming to do it when environment is changing in your company. But if you've done this in an ongoing way, on a quarterly basis, on a regular basis with your boss, and you're building the right support system on the inside that also really recognizes the value that you're bringing, it will at least facilitate those conversations a lot more for you. And then it just becomes a question of when, not if. Right? So maybe it's not right now, but in two months or three months, that's a more reasonable timeline that we can work towards to secure that and showing that level of understanding and empathy that, okay, I can work with that is going to give you more of that support in that more interim, challenging time.

Okay, so what I'm hearing from you is that when you ask for a promotion in a meeting with your manager, it should not be the first time your manager's hearing about your want for a promotion. So yeah, what can the. So the support network talk about? Who can be your advocate besides your manager or maybe including your manager? What do those conversations sound like?

Yeah, I love that. Okay, so your boss is definitely one of the most important stakeholders here because they are the one that's directly evaluating your role. Right? Your progress, your evolution, your wins, all of that. So they are an important one to have on your side. But just know that it doesn't stop there. There are other key decision makers in every organization that will influence that, sometimes even more than your direct boss. I know I've been guilty of that. Where I remember one promotion I was gunning for and my boss was in my corner alley like she was like, it's happening. Tiff, I'm putting your name in. At l', Oreal, we had sort of moments in the year where promotions were being discussed. And so she had fully endorsed me for that. And to my, you know, unpleasant surprise, it didn't go through. And I was like, But I don't get it. You know, like, I thought we were on the same page. Everything was working towards that. And I came to realize that it was actually my boss's boss who was the blocker. And not because I wasn't doing my job well, but it was more so that she didn't perceive my readiness level the way that my boss and I viewed it. And so that became an opportunity area rather than a friction point for me to action. So when you think about yourself in your role, know that yes, your boss matters and you want their advocacy, but you also have a direct, proactive role to play in building one on one relationships with other decision makers. This could be vertically, like in your hierarchy, if you will, of seniority. So maybe your boss, your boss's boss, your boss's boss's boss. But it can also transcend laterally across other departments, departments, or teams that you work with who can also speak highly of you when you're not even there. This is what I talk about a lot with our clients around, building your support system, or as I like to call building your cheer squad. Because the more you do this intentionally, the more you have the right people speaking highly of you when you're not even around. When those conversations around promotions are happening, when they have maybe two people that they can move and they have to decide, is it Ali? Is it Tiffany? Who is it going to be? You want to have made those proactive inroads in those conversations. And to your question, Aliran, how do you have those actual conversations? Be explicit about where you're at and what's important for you and your growth in the company. Don't leave that for them to assume. So let's say you have the chance to have a meeting with your boss's boss, right? And your boss is aware of this. You don't want to overstep your boss and make it look like you're going behind their back. But let's say your boss knows that you're having this meeting just because you want to build a better connection with your VP as an example. And then you have that meeting with your vp. You appreciate and show gratitude for the time they're taking with you and that you're at kind of a pivotal moment of your career in the company, or you're thinking even more around what those next steps look like and being very clear about the goals that you have and what you would like to achieve in the next three months or six months from now, or whatever that timeline is. And that given their amazing path and how they've progressed in the company, you would love their direct insights of what they believe. You need to further demonstrate, to solicit, solidify that in happening by that timeline. That's how you have the conversation. And then it's very open, it's conversational. You're taking notes, you're seeing, does that feedback align with the feedback that my boss has given me? If not, okay, how do I bridge that gap? But it's actionable feedback that you can now go and leverage to accelerate your growth curve.

That's so helpful. I think a lot of people might be hearing this for the first time, and they might have assumed in the past, oh, my boss. I just need my boss in my corner. Or maybe they didn't even know that. So this is so helpful.

Yeah.

I have another myth that I want you to help me bust.

Sure.

So a lot of people come to me and they say, I want a promotion. I've asked. I'm working my tail off. I work seven days a week, overtime, nights and weekends, holidays. Where's the disconnect? Is there a myth that you can bust there that the harder we work, the more likely we are to get a promotion?

Oh, my gosh, I love this, Ali. Because I know one of your videos that I love, and I'm like, oh, my gosh, can we just say this louder for people in the back? Right. You know, if it's just doing hard work isn't enough or, you know, that if you're doing your job really well, that's just not enough to get promoted. It's not. And just as similar as it is in the job market right now, where just doing online applications isn't enough to get hired, we have to do things differently. Right. And the beauty, guys, of these strategies that we're sharing, although focused on internal advancement, they're very powerful for external advancement as well. Right. Because a lot of it does come down to where you put your time and energy and the people that are supporting you in the steps that you want to take next. And so, to your point, you know, you could be the hardest worker. You could be the most loyal worker. You could be the most dedicated employee out there. But I can tell you, and I have the scars to prove it, that route does not guarantee your promotion, nor does it guarantee your raise. Right? You want to focus on the things that actually will make the difference in accelerating that promotion and happening. And the best way to know what that is is have the conversations about what your goals are and where you're focusing your time and does that actually align with the development goals that you have for yourself, for example? And I know a lot of people that I talk to on a regular basis sometimes feel like, but I'm doing all these things, I'm doing so much, but it's not happening. And I'm like, I know and I've seen that and I've been there and our clients have been there. Because you're not focusing on the things that are actually guaranteeing that next step. You're doing a lot of busy work, you're doing a lot of non value added work, but you're not doing meaningful, impactful work. You're not driving the outcomes that matter most to the business that will elevate the value you bring in your role and will accelerate your promotion track. And so this perspective shift is so key because as the employee, we sometimes feel, well, do I even have control in that? Like, I'm just doing what my boss is telling me to do. And yes, that's part true. Right? We have to do what our mandate is, what our role is. But you have more control in this than you realize. And if you're seeing it's been six months into the year, nine months in the year, you're like, like this isn't challenging me, or I feel like I want to go in this direction and I'm not getting the alignment that I want. Maybe the work I'm actually doing that feels like hard work is not working on the right things. So I'd much rather that you do less is more. Right? Focus on fewer things, but the things that really matter and use the conversations with your boss with what we were just talking about, your support system that you're building to actually validate, are those the things that are going to help me get to that next step and get that clear, articulate feedback in return? And if it's a yes, fantastic. Now you have an accountability track. You have something that you can hold yourself accountable to and them accountable to in supporting you towards that next role? And if they're like, no, actually, you know, this is something that we have to do, well, then you're giving, you're giving yourself the chance to improve where you're putting your time and energy. But hard work alone is just like a fraction. Right. It ultimately comes down to the visibility, the exposure, the support system, how you're building your brand internally, and how you communicate and advocate for yourself. These are all critical components that go well beyond just doing your job well.

Okay, so to summarize, we don't need to guess blindly at what work we should be doing. We can ask.

We can ask. That's great. I've even done that a lot, Ali, with my own teams when I was working at l'. Oreal. And I encourage this with our clients as well, that are team leaders, team managers of. Talk with your team regularly and make sure that what they're working on is actually what motivates them, is actually what's focused on how they want to develop in the company. Because if you show that as their manager or the employee on the other end that we're focusing on the right things, it's going to just feel so much more empowering, so much more enabling for everybody. And we'll get those outcomes faster. Right. And it's going to benefit the company because we're getting the best out of our employees that way. Not in a way that's like milking them, not at all. It's a way that's growing them so that they show up as their best selves. That then translates into their best work. That then translates into the best results. That will then further facilitate the alignment to move them into that next role.

That makes so much sense. That makes so much sense. So have you ever come across a situation where you're coaching somebody, they're doing all of the right things, but it seems like the company is just. It's just a no. And have you ever advised somebody, you know what, a promotion might not be possible and it's time to leave. Like walk me through a scenario where you would actually advise somebody, promotion's not possible here. It's time for you to go.

Oh, yeah, I've done that quite a bit, Ali, because one, I'm big on not leaving any stone unturned. And more often than not, the way to accelerate an internal growth track is through those facets we were sharing. Right? Better communication, better self advocacy, better support system, and being very proactive in creating opportunities that might not even exist today. And you know, that's very possible if you want to enter in a role or it's not a possibility in your current team. See, is that a possibility in a different team? Show openness to maybe moving around, have those conversations to really see it through. If this is an organization that you truly had hoped to grow. With that said, and to your point, yeah, there's many instances where it is just not going to happen in that current organization. As much as you've played this out. And you'll have peace of mind knowing that, because you will have tried everything internally to realize, no, you know what? This maybe isn't the end all that I hoped it would be. And actually my. My team member, our head of growth, who used to work with me prior as a client before joining my team, this was exactly her situation. She was with an organization, a major CPG company, and she had gone through multiple managers in one year due to a lot of restructuring that was happening and she was going for her promotion and we were implementing everything, but there was just so much internal change that we came to the conclusion together that her career was too important to leave. Just like idle month after month, quarter after quarter. And so we reoriented her in terms of up leveling her job search and securing three different job offers and one of her major ones. That was really life changing for her and her family. Right. So just know that you have the power to make those decisions and if you are feeling that the growth isn't going to happen, but based off of the due diligence that you've done, please don't make the judgment call that I'm not getting my promotion. There's no growth opportunity here. I'm out. It's a little bit of a cop out sometimes because there's actually things that you can do to just make sure. Is that really the case or have we maybe missed the mark a little on having those conversations or really understanding what's missing between where you're at and the role you want to get to and just getting a good sense of the climate of the company. If you're like, I just don't feel it here anymore. There's a culture misalignment. I don't like how leadership is running things anymore. It doesn't feel good. With my values and how I want to show up, that's totally fine. You know, this is your career to take control of. And if it's moving it elsewhere and securing that promotion in a different organization, it's okay. You know, that's just sometimes the way the cards fall. There's nothing wrong with that. Yeah.

And you're reminding me of something else. I want to ask when you're saying quarter after quarter and we talked a little bit about timing at the beginning of this podcast episode.

Yeah.

Like, logistically, is there a right time during the fiscal year to ask and how do you find out that information or if it's even in the budget to give you a promotion? Is there any way to find out that insider information?

Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I love this question too because we are going to be entering more into year end timeframe and that's a pivotal moment of the year to solidify some of these conversations. But to your earlier point, Ali, you don't want to be bringing it up for the first time come the time of a performance review because that is months prior that you could have actioned a lot of the things that would guarantee that in happening by that time of the year. And so when it talks about timing, I would say it's actually more based off of your time and role. So it's not just like in January you have to do this and then in March you have to do this. It's more of if you've been in your role, let's say for, you know, three to six months, that's already a good moment to start planting the seed. Not necessarily asking for the promotion right away, but planning the seed about what that growth path looks like and what you can further focus on in the coming months to support you best in achieving that goal in the next year or before that, or in the next six months or before that. And the way I love framing it with our clients on this ally is, you know, you might have a company that keeps you in your role for a year and a half or two years and that's pretty standard. But don't take that at face value just because they're saying, you know, that's the typical timeline. Okay, that's for the average person. But we're about building peak performers here. Right? And so as a peak performer, you use that information to your advantage and you can have the conversation, let's say it's with your boss, of saying, you know, I understand that in order to move into X role, it's typically within a two year time frame. From what you've shared with me when I first joined, that's really good information to have. Love to know. Since I'm about a year into my role right now, what could I further demonstrate to allow that next step to happen before the two year mark or even within the next six months from now? What would you need to further see to help build the case to make that happen? Right, so you're not being naive and oblivious to the internal timelines, but you're using it to see what can I do to be the exception to that rule. And how can you help me build that case to make it easier for you to advocate for me along with me advocating for myself. And that's how we start getting that ball rolling. So it's not just moment of the year, but also time in roll that's really important. But general rule of thumb, the start of a year is a great moment. As you're coming out of a year end review to make sure you're setting the tone for what that next growth path looks like. Mid year, a great moment. Half the year has gone by. You want to make sure you're checking off all the things and areas that you were wanting to focus on to accelerate your growth. And then the end of year. But not just end of year. I mean, really, September and October are really critical moments to make sure that as those decisions are happening, you've already well positioned yourself to seal the deal.

Okay, okay, that makes sense.

Does that help?

Yeah, that helps. And for those of you listening, it is September 5th today that we're recording this. And so it's a couple months out to the end of the year. So, okay, the theme I'm hearing from you for all these good nuggets of information is no surprises and you get to have conversations with people well in advance of your ask.

Oh, yeah, it's critical because one quick thing on that, Ali, is we might feel like, oh, we need to wait to have this conversation. Or maybe companies even discourage it. I've seen that, you know where they're like, nope, we normally talk about that at the end of the year or we normally talk about that. So don't be discouraged. If you're feeling discouraged to be able to talk about it, don't let that hold you back of having those curiosity driven questions of, well, well, what can I do? Or just maybe help inform some of my decision making of where I'm going to put my time and energy in these next months. Make it less about the role itself, but more of what you can do to make that easier for when that time comes. But the other thing is companies are making decisions all the time, right? Teams change all the time. Openings come up all the time. And so you want to be very cognizant of working on the company's timelines, but using it again to your advantage. Right? If you're like, well, I'm going to bring this up for the first time in three months from now, but you know, in your company, they're making decisions like that month that you're thinking this thought, well, you don't want to wait till three months because you will have missed the boat. And this also goes for external opportunities. Right when you're thinking about to your point, Ali maybe moving elsewhere, you don't want to wait months and months until you feel ready to make that step. You already want to be building your network and leveraging your network to uncover conversations and possible opportunities that when you are ready to hit go on the gas that's already kind of in motion for you and not expecting timelines to always be right when you're ready, you have to just kind of anticipate that. Better.

Yeah. Okay, Great advice. Great advice. If any of you are going to take this advice and run with it, please let me know. Let Tiffany know. We would love to hear about your success story. And I have one more question for you before we talk about your super exciting free event coming up in a couple weeks.

Oh, sure.

So the question I have for you is a special type of promotion and is there anything special or unique somebody needs to do if they'd like to be promoted from an individual contributor role to a management role with direct reports? Walk me through that.

Yeah, I get this question a lot actually, because the thing that always comes up with that is, well, I want to manage people and I need experience managing people to be able to move in that role. But I'm an individual contributor, so I don't have that experience. So how do I, how do I make that jump if I haven't had the skill set that they need? So there's a few, like, very tactical things that you can do if you want to position yourself well. Okay, a few things. The first is speak to people already in that role, that next level role, and get insight from them of what helped them make that transition, that same transition in your company from IC to people manager, because they were very much in your shoes probably not so long ago. So you can get direct insider intel that will give you some of those aha moments of ah. Okay, well, I'm actually already doing that. Oh, I didn't realize that that was something that was really valued in that decision making. Okay, now I know. So that's step one. Step two is already again, express that this is something that you want so that you can find other ways of demonstrating your leadership abilities. For instance, maybe you facilitate trainings in your team. Maybe you help with onboarding of new team members. They're not your direct team members that report into you, but you are helping set them up for success and you're showing your leadership and people Capabilities through that, maybe you've been able to get an intern over the summer that's worked for you. And if you don't have that, you can ask for that. It's a great way of saying, hey, you know what, I want to build my readiness level and my people management skills. Would it be possible to bring on a part time intern over the summer or for a few months where I can actually lead them and guide them and show that muscle is building to support me for my next step? Right, so those are a few things. But again, one thing that's often underrated in transitioning from ICs to people managers is the cross functional leadership that you do. Okay. And this is one thing that's really helped our clients in reframing how to position their leadership skills when they're not yet a people manager, but wanting to become a people manager internally. So if you are working with different teams, even lateral teams, and you are influencing them and mobilizing them to work towards things that are benefiting the business and they don't report directly into you, but you're able to do that really effectively, that's also people management skills. Again, they don't report into you, but I would even argue, Ali, that that's harder to do than people who do report into you because they don't owe you anything. Right. They don't owe you time, they don't owe you their energy, but you've somehow gotten them to do what you need them to do by the deadline that you've been given. And they've done it in a way with commitment and motivation and the right energy. I would use that to your advantage. And I go back to my IC days and the ICs that we support in our program around leveraging that, showing that you're doing this. Yeah, they don't report to you directly, but you're already showing these skills of how you can inspire and enable and empower people that, that you work with and that that is the fuel that's going to help you better accelerate into a people manager role. Paired with the other tactics that I was sharing. Cool.

Cool. And what an exciting move to make to become a manager within your company because that means you've demonstrated leadership, delegation, inspiration.

So I love that it's a big step. And I will say, as you do get promoted into a people manager role, especially as a first time people manager role, it's probably one of the hardest roles you'll have in your career. So I'm saying it is just to set expectations. But it's also a really exciting one because for the first time, you're facing what I like to call the sandwich effect, where you're managing down and managing up at the same time. That's new. Right? It's not just about you managing your bosses now. You have people that are depending on you that their growth is a function of how you lead them. Right. And so getting comfortable with that might feel uncomfortable, but just know it's all part of the game. It's all part of that growth path. And as you feed into it and really lean into your team and help them build their custom growth path with you and be very clear about what motivates them in their day to day and how you can support them best in that, it actually becomes a lot easier.

Cool. And good luck to anybody who's about to make that jump. Let us know how it goes. Cool. All right, so let's wrap this up, and I want to hear about your event coming up. Before I ask you about it, I want to share what my experience was when I joined your last live event. Oh, I loved how clear you were about the questions you'd be answering during the event. I felt so clear about what I could expect and your vision for that moment. I felt like it was easy to join the event. I loved that you made it free. I actually couldn't believe you made it free because I got so much value out of it. I was taking notes. You even provided notes, I think. I'm not sure if you do that every time, but you were so organized and inspirational and energetic, and it was like I felt like I was at a Brianna concert. It was epic.

Well, I'll take that. Ali, thank you so much for sharing. No, you know what? It's. It's something we're trying to do more and more, especially this year. We know it's tough out there. There's a lot of information, can be really confusing and overwhelming of what do I do and when do I do it and how do I do it? And so we love putting together these free events to just bring us closer to you guys and to support you with strategies that actually work. So you kind of remove that guesswork. And the event that we do have coming up towards the end of September is called Career Growth Accelerator. It's actually our most popular event that I'm currently totally re energizing it and bringing new content into it as well, just given what I'm seeing and what's really working for our clients right now. And so what I'm specifically going to be diving into is some of my proven strategies, communication templates and how tos that are really simple to implement that will accelerate your, your career, your confidence, your growth, your income. And these are the strategies that our own clients are using that has allowed them to 3x the rate of promotion. So speaking of the topic of today, secure anywhere from 30 to 50% salary raises, often year over year, and then also secure new opportunities in 90 days or less. And that's the beauty of these strategies is you can use them for internal acceleration and external acceleration. It's like the one roadmap and if you nail that, it's really going to support you. So we're so excited to have you guys there. If you're looking to join, it's a free event, 90 minutes in and out. We will have time for Q A and I, I stay on for Q and A to answer all of your questions because we want to make sure you know how to implement what we're talking about. So yeah, we would love to have you there.

Awesome. Tell me the date and the time.

Yeah, so we have two dates and two time slots available to meet whatever works best for you. So it's either Tuesday, September 25th, sorry, Tuesday, September 24th, I should say at 12pm Eastern Time, or Wednesday, September 25th at 8pm Eastern Time. And they're 90 minute sessions. It's the same session. Just to really choose the one that's best for you.

Got it. And is this webinar style or should people come prepared to have their cameras on?

Yeah, so it's more webinar style. No need to put your camera on, but be prepared to take lots of notes. I will say.

Awesome, very cool. Will people get a recording afterwards?

Yeah, yeah. We will make the replay accessible for a limited time. There will be some fun bonuses for those who join live. So we do recommend that as much as possible as possible. But yes, we will make the replay available too. But you do have to register to the event to get the replay. So highly recommend getting getting your seats nailed in there.

And I loved registering for your event last time because I got the recording and I put the transcript into ChatGPT and I had it summarize it for me with key takeaways, all the questions you answered and I used that as my notes so you can do that as well. So let's, let's go a little more broad. Tell me if somebody's listening to this and they're like, tiffany sounds like a powerhouse. I want to work with her. Tell me how can people reach and are you taking on new clients?

Oh, yeah, absolutely. So we are taking on new clients. We have had a lot of demand this year and so we do have limited availability. But if you are looking to work with us, we'd love to speak with you, myself, my team, we can get in touch. We actually offer a free Career Clarity call that you can book directly through my social media or directly from my website, www.tiffanyuman.com. or you could send us a DM on Instagram, tiffany.youman on LinkedIn. I'm pretty much the only Tiffany Human there, so you search for me, you'll find me pretty easily and then also by email if it's easier. Tiffany humaniffanyuman.com but yeah, I would, I would love to speak with you for sure. My primary flagship program is called Career Success Fast Track. And so this is our all in one accelerator. Whether you're looking to land your new opportunity or accelerate your growth and income internally in your organizations, we really cover it from end to end because we know there's so many different facets to your career and we want to make sure you have the proven strategies and frameworks to make it happen on your terms. And so that's really how we support our clients. And we've been helping a lot this year and a lot of the negativity out there to make those moves happen in record time. So please feel free to reach out. We would love to make this your breakthrough year and with almost just like four months or less now on the year, it's really go time. So we do encourage you to reach out again on our socials via email or go ahead and book a free Clarity call with us and we can chat more.

Awesome. And I have a friend who is currently working with you, you know who she is, and she just raves about you. She told me she feels so supported, so informed and so inspired. So I want to thank you for being somebody that I can send people to because I don't know anybody who does what you do. So thank you for bringing magic into the world for people like her.

Well, Allie, you're going to make me cry a little bit. No, we really appreciate that. I mean, we take so much pride in the work that we do and the results that we're seeing, you know, just in the last week to two weeks alone. And I say that in a hopeful way for people because I can tell you we've come across incredible talent. I mean, I don't know, I'm sure you're seeing it too. Ali. There's never been such incredible talent out there that are really struggling, right. Struggling internally, struggling externally. And so we want to make sure that we are helping you get to where you want to go faster. And I can tell you getting that level of support is priceless. When you actually join my program. It is extensive one on one support with me directly and our amazing experts on the inside that you get direct daily access to. So we know everyone's path is different. We want to make sure we're customizing and tailoring that to your needs and we don't leave any stone unturned in that. And we would love to support you in your goals. Cool.

Well, thank you so much for spending time with us today. I really appreciate all your insights. You are an absolute rock star and expert. So thank you for joining us for this episode.

Thanks, Allie, for having me. This was a lot of fun and I hope it was helpful for all of our listeners.

Awesome. Well, please connect with Tiffany on Instagram or LinkedIn. Tell her you listened, tell her what you learned from this episode, and I will catch you guys in the next one. Thank you.

Bye.